Trump is Tariff-ied

Summary

Podcast Summary: What A Day – Episode: "Trump is Tariff-ied"

Release Date: April 30, 2025
Host: Jane Coaston (performed by Erin Ryan)
Guest: Stephanie Ruhl, MSNBC Host and Senior Business Analyst for NBC News

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1. Introduction and Overview

In the April 30th episode of What A Day, host Erin Ryan delves into the multifaceted impacts of former President Donald Trump's economic policies, particularly focusing on tariffs, and their reverberations both domestically within the United States and internationally, notably influencing Canada’s federal elections. The episode also touches upon significant shifts within the U.S. Department of Justice and campus climates at major universities like Harvard.

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2. Trump's Economic Policies and Their Domestic Impact

Election Victory and Initial Trust in Trump's Economic Policies

The episode opens with a recap of Donald Trump’s unexpected victory in the 2024 election, primarily attributed to voter trust in his economic management. However, as Trump's second term progresses, enthusiasm wanes:

• Polling Trends: "Now that we're a few months into Trump's second term, voters are across the board less than enthusiastic on the job Trump has done. We're seeing this in the polling. Trump is underwater overall, but also across several polls. A majority of Americans are giving the president a thumbs down on his signature issue." ([00:02])

• Consumer Confidence: Consumer confidence has plummeted to pandemic-era lows, placing businesses in precarious positions.

The Tariff Controversy with Amazon

A significant segment discusses Amazon's rumored initiative to display tariffs on their products, challenging Trump's narrative that consumers wouldn't bear these costs:

• Trump’s Reaction: "Donald Trump was very nice. He was terrific. He solved the problem very quickly." ([02:11])

• Stephanie Ruhl’s Analysis: Ruhl argues that the situation exposed the administration's misleading claims about tariffs:

  "From the beginning, President Trump, Peter Navarro, et cetera, have said to us over and over, the United States doesn't incur the cost of the tariffs. U.S. businesses don't. U.S. consumers don't. Well, obviously they just proved that to be incorrect." ([04:26])

• Impact on Businesses and Consumers: Ruhl highlights that both small and large businesses are already suffering, foreseeing increased costs and empty shelves in the near future. She emphasizes that tariffs are leading the U.S. towards a potential recession:

  "We're seeing consumer sentiment change that people are bracing themselves. But businesses big and small are suffering." ([05:53])

Trump’s Approval Ratings and Economic Policies

Trump’s approval ratings have taken a significant hit, with only 39% approval as per a Washington Post ABC News Ipsos poll:

• Host’s Commentary: Ryan points out the irony of Trump celebrating economic successes despite declining approval:

  "Not to beat a dead horse, but this is the man whose polling is at historically low favorability numbers for this early into a presidency." ([18:55])

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3. International Impact: Canada’s Federal Election Victory

Liberal Party’s Unexpected Win Influenced by Trump’s Policies

Canada's Liberal Party, led by Prime Minister Mark Carney, secured a victory in the federal elections, a turnaround significantly influenced by Trump's aggressive economic stances against Canada:

• Prime Minister Carney’s Victory Speech: Carney declared:

  "Canada. Free Canada forever. Vive la Canada. Thank you very much." ([19:31])

• Trump’s Intervention: Trump's threats to make Canada the "51st state" and the imposition of tariffs on Canadian goods alienated Canadian voters, leading to the Conservative Party's decline:

  "America wants our land, our resources, our water, our country. Never. But these are not idle threats..." – Pierre Polievre, Conservative Leader ([20:31])

• Conservative Leader’s Defeat: Pierre Polievre lost his parliamentary seat after 20 years, signaling a significant shift in Canadian politics.

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4. Shifts within the U.S. Department of Justice’s Civil Rights Division

Mass Exodus of Civil Rights Lawyers

The episode covers the departure of over 100 lawyers from the DOJ’s Civil Rights Division under the Trump administration’s redefined priorities:

• Harmeet Dhillon’s Statements: The new Civil Rights Director, Harmeet Dhillon, commented on the resignations:

  "We don't want people in the federal government who feel like it's their pet project to go persecute... That's not the job here." ([22:08])

• Redefining Priorities: The division, originally tasked with combating discrimination, is now focusing on prosecuting "anti-Christian bias," "transgender athletes," and "woke ideology," diverging sharply from its foundational mission.

• Impact on Civil Rights Enforcement: The significant reduction in staff hampers the division’s ability to address genuine discrimination issues, undermining decades of progress in civil rights enforcement.

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5. Campus Climate at Harvard University

Reports of Bias and Discrimination Post-Conflicts

Harvard University faces internal challenges as reports reveal widespread feelings of unwelcomeness among Jewish, Israeli, Muslim, Arab, Palestinian, and pro-Palestinian students:

• Harvard President Alan Garber’s Statement:

  "The reports reveal a charged period. At Harvard, Jewish, Israeli and Zionist students said they felt unwelcome on campus." ([22:26])

• Institutional Response: Harvard is reviewing recommendations on admissions, curriculum, and training programs to address these issues.

• Legal Challenges: Concurrently, Harvard is suing the Trump administration for freezing over $2 billion in federal grants, alleging interference in the university’s private affairs.

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6. Conclusion

The episode of What A Day meticulously examines the cascading effects of Donald Trump’s economic policies, particularly tariffs, highlighting their detrimental impact on both the U.S. economy and international relations, especially with Canada. Stephanie Ruhl provides insightful analysis on the erosion of consumer confidence and business stability due to these policies. Additionally, structural changes within the DOJ and the strained campus environments at institutions like Harvard underscore the broader societal implications of Trump's administration. The episode underscores the complex interplay between political maneuvers and their tangible effects on everyday life and international dynamics.

Notable Quotes:

• Stephanie Ruhl ([04:26]):

  "The administration is not being intellectually honest with themselves, the American people and the world about how tariffs work."

• Pierre Polievre ([20:31]):

  "America wants our land, our resources, our water, our country. Never. But these are not idle threats."

• Harmeet Dhillon ([22:08]):

  "We don't want people in the federal government who feel like it's their pet project to go persecute... That's not the job here."

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Disclaimer: This summary excludes advertisements, intros, outros, and non-content sections to focus solely on the substantive discussions and analyses presented in the episode.

Transcript

[Erin Ryan]

It's Wednesday, April 30th. I'm Erin Ryan in for Jane Coston. And this is what a day. The show that thinks that the kid that scratched up the 50 million euro Rothko painting at a museum actually created more interesting art than the original Rothko. Art as resistance, art as irreverence, art as a rejection of protocol. Give that kid a genius grant. On today's show, Canada's Liberal Party rides nationally hatred of President Donald Trump to an election victory. And Trump holds a 100 day rally celebrating himself in Michigan, a state so close to Canada that if he stays really quiet, he can probably hear raucous Canadian boos directed his way from Ontario. But first, President Trump cruised to victory in the 2024 election, in large part because voters said they trusted him more on the economy. Now, I've got my own theories about what I believe the economy was code for among voters who who simply couldn't bring themselves to trust Kamala Harris. But now that we're a few months into Trump's second term, voters are across the board less than enthusiastic on the job Trump has done. We're seeing this in the polling. Trump is underwater overall, but also across several polls. A majority of Americans are giving the president a thumbs down fart sound on his signature issue. People are feeling it. Consumer confidence plunged this month to levels not seen since the start of the pandemic. And that leaves businesses in a tough spot. Enter Amazon. This morning, rumors circulated that the company would start listing the cost of tariffs on each item on its website. Since many of the things on Amazon are not made in the US this meant that most products on Amazon would show the real price plus the tariff cost as two separate numbers. Now, this would be a nightmare scenario for the Trump administration because the way they've tried to sell tariffs to the American people is by claiming that consumers wouldn't be paying them. Foreign governments would. And so Trump freaked out and got on the phone with Jeff Bezos. The end result of this fracas was that Amazon said the whole tariff price thing was never the plan. But Trump tried to spin that like a victory. For some reason.

[Donald Trump]

Jeff Bezos was very nice. He was terrific. He solved the problem very quickly.

[Erin Ryan]

Oh, good. I'm so glad he was nice, Mr. President. Side note, Bezos actually stepped down as CEO of Amazon four years ago, so maybe not even the right guy to call about this. Press secretary Caroline Levitt seemed less inclined to pal around with Bezos when she was asked about the story during the White House press briefing on Tuesday. This is a hostile and political act by Amazon. Why didn't Amazon do this when the Biden administration hiked inflation to the highest level in 40 years? And I would also add that it's.

[Stephanie Ruhl]

Not a surprise because as Reuters recently.

[Erin Ryan]

Wrote, Amazon has partnered with a Chinese propaganda arm. Hmm, Good question. Why didn't Amazon do something that wouldn't have made any sense under completely different circumstances? Huh? Checkmate, libs. I know I'm not supposed to interrupt the enemy when he's making a mistake, but guys, read the room. We're bracing for impact. And the President and his minions are over here acting like yelling at Jeff Bezos about a plan that Amazon says never existed makes Trump look like anything but an economic problem causer. If I were the one trying to gaslight the American people into thinking that the people feeling the tariffs the hardest will be China, I'd try to keep the truth as tamped down as possible. But instead of keeping quiet, White House economic adviser Kevin Hassett told CNN that while the administration hadn't finalized any of those big trade agreements with any major trading partners to stave off the tariffs, the administration had, quote, sketches of deals. Oh, good. I'm sure that will make everybody feel a lot better. Here to make sense of Trump's latest economic lurchings and what the President's policies are accomplishing is Stephanie ruhl. She hosts MSNBC's the 11th Hour with Stephanie Rule and is a senior business analyst for NBC News. Stephanie, welcome to what a Day.

[Stephanie Ruhl]

Thanks for having me.

[Erin Ryan]

Yeah, thanks for being here. Okay, so the big news Tuesday was this back and forth between the Trump administration and Amazon. It kind of turned out to be a nothing burger at the end of it. But given the White House is strong and immediate pushback, what does that tell you about how the Trump administration is feeling about the economy right now?

[Stephanie Ruhl]

Okay, here's where. It's definitely not a nothing burger. So from the beginning, President Trump, Peter Navarro, et cetera, have said to us over and over, the United States doesn't incur the cost of the tariffs. U.S. businesses don't. U.S. consumers don't. Well, obviously they just proved that to be incorrect. Because if a story came out that Amazon was now going to be listing the price increase based on tariff, and that warranted the President calling Jeff Bezos and the White House press briefing room, you know, getting hyped up on it and saying, this is super political, well, that tells you right there that there's no chance China or some foreign company are paying the tariffs. The United States is the United States, consumers are. But to me, one of the biggest problems that we're facing is that this administration is not being intellectually honest with themselves, the American people and the world about how tariffs work?

[Erin Ryan]

Yeah, Trump just passed his hundred day mark and the polls have not been very kind to him, to put it mildly. But it seemed like his approval numbers really sunk in the last month, specifically. Which tracks with his big Liberation Day announcement of sweeping reciprocal tariffs. Is that your sense too, that it was like the tariffs that made people sour on him?

[Stephanie Ruhl]

Absolutely right. We're on the eve. You know, some business leaders say we're already in recession, some say it could be happening. But all of these negative economic headlines that we are facing are self imposed.

[Erin Ryan]

And we were talking to Pod Save America co host Jon Favreau this week and he was saying that we haven't even really begun to feel or see the effects of tariffs yet. Is that what you're hearing from your sources in the world of investing, in the business world, separate the two people.

[Stephanie Ruhl]

In the investment community, they can make money in times of volatility. This is crippling for businesses. Okay. The White House likes to say, we've heard Howard Lutnick say, well, people saw the tariffs were coming, so they front loaded their inventory. No, they didn't. Imagine if you ran a toy store, a small toy store in New York City, do you really think you would already have a warehouse filled with Christmas toys? Do you think you would have Halloween costumes? No, you don't have that kind of disposable money. So that's for small business and for big business, they move so much product, they're not front loading inventory like that. So John is right. We're already seeing it in the ships coming into the Port of Los Angeles. We saw it in Seattle yesterday. Cargo ships are coming empty or they're not coming at all. And so I want you to think for a moment, stores like Walmart and others will be placing their orders now for school supplies. Right. We would all be going to those stores in Target come August to buy pencils and notebooks for our kids. Those orders would be coming in now if the tariffs are in place. We're not gonna be getting those school supplies either. Not at all. Or they could be 40, 50, 60% more expensive than they are right now. So the consumers haven't felt it yet. We're seeing consumer sentiment change that people are bracing themselves. But businesses big and small are suffering. And yes, it was great to see. You know, small businesses were relieved that the likes of Home Depot And Target and Walmart went to see the President and they urged him to back off the tariffs. They told him their shelves would be empty. But at least those businesses had the opportunity to meet with the President. If you're on a small business in America, which is the heart and soul of our economy, you got nothing to offer him.

[Erin Ryan]

And speaking of empty shelves, here's a personal bugaboo of mine. Trump keeps saying that grocery prices are down, gas prices are down. Everything is going great. First of all, when do you think the last time was that Donald Trump bought his own groceries or pumped his own gas? And two, can you do a quick fact check on that?

[Stephanie Ruhl]

One, Okay, I can't speak to when the President did his own grocery shopping, and I'm not judging him. So it is what it is. But we're not seeing these prices go down. Remember, it was not that long ago his agriculture Secretary went on national television and her response to high egg prices was build a chicken coop in your backyard. And so we're not seeing that. What people are experiencing is strain around prices. And it's only going to get worse because the businesses are warning us. Just think about this. We have businesses that are now preparing us for the kind of supply chain shock that we endured during COVID Here's a funny anecdote. Some of the same businesses that we did stories on during the height of COVID small businesses, the same ones are reaching out to us again, saying the crisis that we faced five years ago, we're approaching to be right back there. And the difference now, this is a man made crisis and the only man is Donald Trump.

[Erin Ryan]

So like you said, we haven't seen the full impact of the tariffs yet. When do you think that will start to change? And what will a more widespread impact look like?

[Stephanie Ruhl]

Life's gonna get more expensive and you're gonna see a lot fewer items on the shelves. Whether or not Amazon lists on their website the impact of tariffs making stuff cost more, we're going to see it cost more. Okay. You know, we're already seeing from the likes of a TEMU and a Sheen. And I'm not advocating that people should, should buy their stuff from those sites, but people do, right? Scott Bessen says, you know, getting cheap goods fast is not the American dream. It's definitely not, but it is the American way. Right? We are a country of consumers. Consumerism is our jam. We're a country of people whose basements and attics are filled with stuff. And we sure love our fast fashion. And so come two, three weeks from now things are going to cost more or they won't be available to us. And the only person we're going to look to is the president.

[Erin Ryan]

And is there a way for the Trump administration to reverse course here?

[Stephanie Ruhl]

So here's what I think is interesting. Could Trump find an exit ramp with some easy smaller countries? Sure. But he has now launched a trade war with China. Okay. The last thing in the world Xi Jinping is up for is getting humiliated on the global stage. And Xi Jinping has a strong gut when it comes to him being embarrassed and he'll take pain. And the fact that the United States just sits here and says, well, we're waiting to hear from China. Look at last week. Every other day we would hear from the White House. We're talking to China, China's talking to us. And then China would be like, nobody's talking to us. And that lack of clarity, think about what that's like for a business. Right. Even if you are a business who likes the idea of tariffs, given the communication out of the White House in the last two weeks, do you really think that you would make a multibillion dollar five year investment to build a plant in the United States when five years from now Donald Trump will not be in office and the tariffs that he's imposing could be gone. So think about that roller coaster that we're on. What this has done is paralyzed markets. We thought that in a Donald Trump universe, you would see tons of business activity, you'd see tons of mergers and acquisitions. None of that is happening. Cuz everyone is just hunkered down in the foxhole trying to figure out what's happening next.

[Erin Ryan]

Well, and finally you're hosting a town hall tomorrow with government workers who lost their jobs under Trump. The White House would have us all believe the people who lost their jobs are do nothing bureaucrats. But who are the people you'll be talking to?

[Stephanie Ruhl]

We are doing a town hall tomorrow night, you know, to mark 100 days and help show the American people who these federal workers are. Now your average American person would say the government is too fat. The government doesn't work for me. I pay my taxes and I don't know where they go. Well, we're about to see. We're going to talk to federal workers who have worked all across the government. And what I think is super interesting, we're going to talk to inspectors general. And I think the average citizen doesn't even know what that is. Inspectors general are doge already inside the audience, inside the government. So these are the people that do audit the agencies, figure out what programs do we have, how are we spending money, are we working efficiently? And I think there's a lot of people who are in those inspectors general roles who, who were open to the idea of DOGE saying, great, let's do this thing. And I think it's really important to help our audience understand what restructuring means, because the idea of DOGE was root out waste, fraud and abuse. If there is so much fraud, where are the indictments? Where are the prosecutions? We have not heard of one. What we have seen is the rhinestone encrusted chainsaw going after our government. And I think it's important for us to explain to our audience what that looks like. And if they think federal jobs are all just rolling around the D.C. area, well, then we're going to take them to West Virginia where they're now wiping out groups that study black lung, which has plagued coal miners for decades and decades. We're going to think about states like Alabama where people might not realize that deep red state, their largest employer is the University of Alabama and the hospital system there. So if you're now cutting public funds to universities and nih, you are going to crush regional economies around the country. And I think it's important to explain that and talk to those folks, those apolitical folks who simply work for our government or did.

[Erin Ryan]

Stephanie, I'm excited to tune in to that. Thank you so much for joining us.

[Stephanie Ruhl]

Thank you for having me.

[Erin Ryan]

That was MSNBC host Stephanie Ruhl. And you can watch that town hall. We talked about this Thursday night on msnbc. We'll get to more of the news in a moment, but if you like the show, make sure to subscribe. Leave a five star review on Apple Podcasts, watch us on YouTube and share with your friends. More to come after some ads. What a Day is brought to you by Deleteme. Deleteme makes it easy, quick and safe to remove your personal data online. At a time when surveillance and data breaches are common enough to make everybody vulnerable. Data brokers profit off your data. Your data is a commodity. Anyone on the web can buy your private details. And this can lead to things like identity theft, phishing attempts and harassment. Or in my case, I sometimes get random texts that say they're from my company CEO, and they're always from a different number. And whenever I get one, I will send her a slack message and I'll say, is this you? And she'll be like, no. But now you can protect your privacy with Deleteme. What do data brokers do Your name, contact info, Social Security number, home address, even information about your family members could all be compiled by data brokers and sold online. As somebody who yaps for a living and occasionally pops off and has an active online presence, privacy is really important to me. But it's also important to me that me yapping and popping off does not end up harming people that I love and that are close to me. Look, if I yap and I pop off, it's fine if, you know, somebody's going to send me a mean tweet or something like that. But I don't need people finding my family members and sending them mean tweets. I'm an avid user of Delete Me. I've used it for years. I have always been confident in the job that the service does and as a result, you know, I sleep a little bit easier at night and I think so do my loved ones who are sometimes like, hey Erin, say less wild things into a microphone. Take control of your data and keep your private life private by signing up for Delete Me now at a special discount for our listeners. Get 20% off your delete me plan when you go to JoinDeleteMe.com wad and use promo code wad at checkout. The only way to get 20% off is to go JoinDeleteMe.com wad, and enter code wad at checkout. That's JoinDeleteMe.com wad code wad.

[Mark Carney]

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[Erin Ryan]

Here's what else we're following today.

[Amazon Pharmacy]

Header lines.

[Donald Trump]

We just had the biggest victory in Michigan. They said, sir, it's going to be hard. Well, we won it Twice. We actually won it three times. You want to really know?

[Erin Ryan]

Fact check. False only twice. Two too many if you ask us. Also, the sir is his tell for when he's just making things up. President Trump celebrated his 100 days in office by doing what he does best, celebrating himself. On Tuesday, he traveled to Michigan for a pit stop at Selfridge Air National Guard base in Macomb County. That's where he delivered remarks to the Michigan National Guard and announced new fighter jets.

[Donald Trump]

In recent years, many in Michigan have feared for the future of the base. They've been calling everybody, but the only one that mattered was Trump.

[Erin Ryan]

He talks about himself in the third person, using his own last name. That is bizarre. And I think we've all accepted it and we should just pause on it for a second. That is bizarre. Later, Trump rallied at a community college outside Detroit.

[Donald Trump]

This is the best, they say, hundred day start of any president in history and everyone is saying it. We're just, we've just gotten started. You haven't even seen anything yet.

[Erin Ryan]

Not to beat a dead horse, but this is the man whose polling is at historically low favorability numbers for this early into a presidency. According to a Washington Post ABC News Ipsos poll, only 39% of U.S. adults approve of his job performance thus far.

[Pierre Polievre]

Who's ready to stand up for Canada with me?

[Erin Ryan]

Canadian Prime Minister Mark Carney will stay in power for a full term after leading his Liberal party to victory in Monday's federal election. Carney declared victory early Tuesday morning in a speech to his supporters.

[Pierre Polievre]

Canada. Free Canada forever. Vive la Canada. Thank you very much.

[Erin Ryan]

As of our recording Tuesday evening, Carney's Liberals were projected to fall just short of picking up enough seats in Canada's Parliament to win a majority, which means the party will need to team up with other parties to govern. But Monday's results solidified a massive turnaround in fortune for Canada's centre left Liberals in just a few months, mainly thanks to someone who isn't even Canadian, Donald Trump. Earlier this year, Canada's Conservative Party, led by Pierre Polievre, looked poised for a sweeping victory. Polls showed his party with a 25 point lead over the Liberal government under then Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, who stepped down in March. But the tide turned when Trump returned to office and immediately started threatening to make Canada the 51st state. He also levied tariffs on a bunch of Canadian goods. And that was just too much for our Canadian friends. Voters abandoned Polievre to rally behind Carney, who campaigned heavily on an anti Trump message. The Prime Minister reiterated that message in his victory speech.

[Pierre Polievre]

America wants our land, our resources, our water, our country. Never. But these are not. These are not idle threats. President Trump is trying to break us so that America can own us. That will never. That will never, ever happen.

[Erin Ryan]

Well, one thing Trump did accomplish in his first 100 days make Canada mean. And as if that finish line collapse wasn't painful enough for Canada's Conservatives, Polievre also lost his own seat in Parliament to a Liberal challenger. He's represented his district outside Ottawa for 20 years. In his concession speech Tuesday, Polievre said he's confident Conservatives will make a comeback in government someday. I know that some of you might be disappointed that change did not get over the finish line tonight. Change takes time. Good job, Canada. If only we could do the same here.

[Harmeet Dhillon]

En masse. Dozens and now over 100 attorneys decided that they'd rather not do what their job requires them to do.

[Erin Ryan]

More than 100 lawyers are leaving the Department of Justice's Civil Rights Division amid Trump's efforts to reshape its priorities. That's According to the DOJ's newly minted civil rights director, Harmeet Dhillon, who always sounds like she just got done yelling at a housekeeper. In an interview with the conservative podcaster Glenn Beck released earlier this week, Dhillon said staffers are peacing out because they don't like the new direction she's taking and she seems pretty unfazed by the mass exodus.

[Harmeet Dhillon]

I think that's fine because we don't want people in the federal government who feel like it's their pet project to go persecute, you know, police departments based on statistical evidence or persecute people praying outside abortion facilities instead of doing violence. That's not the job here.

[Erin Ryan]

According to the Washington Post, Dylan has ordered lawyers to prioritize prosecuting so called anti Christian bias, transgender athletes in sports and Democrats quote woke ideology. That's a pretty big departure from the original intent of the division, which was conceived in the 50s under the Civil Rights act to fight discrimination. The Civil Rights division had around 380 lawyers at the start of Trump's term. The Post reported that about half of them have left or announced their intent to resign since then. The 202324 academic year was disappointing and painful. That's the opening line of a campus message published by the Harvard president Alan Garber Tuesday. Garber's letter came in response to internal reports from two task forces aimed at combating discrimination on campus in the wake of the October 7 attacks, the Israel Hamas war and pro Palestinian protests last year. One report took a look at anti Semitism and anti Israel bias. The other looked at anti Muslim, Arab and Palestinian bias. Garber said. The reports reveal a quote, charged period. At Harvard, Jewish, Israeli and Zionist students said they felt unwelcome on campus. Some even chose to hide their identities to avoid conflict. And Muslim, Arab, Palestinian and pro Palestinian students reported feeling judged misrepresented and silenced. Harvard says it's reviewing recommendations regarding admissions, appointments, curriculum and orientation and training programs. The reports come at an awkward time for Harvard. It's currently suing the Trump administration after it froze more than $2 billion in federal grants over alleged anti Semitism on campus. Harvard says the grant freeze was an effort by the Trump administration to insert itself into the university's private business. And that's the news before we go join over 1 million listeners around the world tuning into Shadow God's Banker, Crooked's newest true crime podcasts. All episodes are out now so you can binge the full story from start to finish as host Nicolo Manoni investigates the mysterious death of the Vatican banker. Uncovering a web of mafia ties, a fascist secret society, covert Vatican ops, and a missing $1.2 billion, he interviews spies, prosecutors and the last person to see Roberto Calvi the banker alive. All to answer one question, who killed God's banker? Folks, it is conclave season. You gotta get in the spirit. You want Rome, we want. We want Vatican, we want intrigue, we want secrecy. You gotta listen to it. You can binge all episodes of Shadow Kingdom wherever you get your podcasts on Apple Podcasts. That's all for today. If you like the show, make sure you subscribe. Leave a review by Canadian and tell your friends to listen. And if you are into reading and not just the Tim Hortons menu like me, what a Day is also a nightly newsletter. Check it out and [e-mail] subscribe I'm Erin Ryan and vote for me for your next hope.

[Alan Garber]

Water Day is a production of Crooked Media. It's recorded and mixed by Desmond Taylor. Our associate producers are Raven Yamamoto and Emily Foer. Our producer is Michelle Aloy. We had production help today from Johanna Case, Joseph Dutra, Greg Walters, and Julia Claire. Our senior producer is Erica Morrison and our executive producer is Adrienne Hill. Our theme music is by Colin Gilliard and Kashaka. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East.

[Mark Carney]

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