Trump’s Deadly Attacks in the Caribbean Sea

Summary

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Podcast Summary: What A Day

Episode Title: Trump’s Deadly Attacks in the Caribbean Sea
Date: October 22, 2025
Host: Jane Coaston (Crooked Media)
Main Guest: Tess Bridgman (Co-editor in chief, Just Security; Visiting Scholar, NYU School of Law)

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Overview

This episode unpacks the recent, controversial U.S. military strikes on boats off the Venezuelan coast, which the Trump administration alleges are involved in cartel and narco-terrorist activity. Host Jane Coaston, joined by legal expert Tess Bridgman, analyzes the facts (and unknowns), the legality, and the emerging pattern of escalation that suggests these actions may be less about stopping drugs and more about destabilizing Venezuelan President Nicolás Maduro.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. U.S. Strikes in the Caribbean: Fact vs. Narrative

• Background: Since early September, the U.S. military has struck seven boats off Venezuela; dozens have reportedly died ([03:29]).
• Official Rationale: Trump administration claims these boats are “narco-traffickers” ferrying fentanyl.
• Skepticism About Evidence:
  • Neither Congress nor the public has seen proof the people on board were actually traffickers.
  • Tess Bridgman: “There are huge question marks just around those basic facts for pretty much all of these strikes.” ([03:53])
  • Congressional briefings have left lawmakers unsatisfied with the administration’s explanations or evidence.

2. The Fentanyl Claim: Misdirection?

• Venezuela is not, according to experts and the NYT, a source of fentanyl for the U.S. Most fentanyl comes from Mexico, made with chemicals from China.
• Jane Coaston: “It sounds very regime changey to me.” ([02:45])

3. Legality of the Attacks

• International & U.S. Law:
  • Military force can only be used in self-defense or in a declared war.
  • The U.S. is not at war with Venezuela, and the targeted strikes are not operating under a “law enforcement paradigm” (e.g., Coast Guard intercepts/arrests).
  • Tess Bridgman: “The administration is asserting that the president can simply order the military to engage in killings outside of the law. And… it’s murder.” ([04:57])

4. Survivors, Evidence, and Accountability

• Two survivors (from Ecuador and Colombia) were returned home for prosecution but one was immediately released for lack of evidence.
• Tess Bridgman: “If those facts were sufficient to detain them… the administration is claiming they were sufficient to, in fact, kill them. So they ought to be able to tell us what it is that they're suspected of doing.” ([06:15])

5. Fallout with Colombia

• Trump cut aid and publicly insulted Colombian President Gustavo Petro after he criticized the U.S. strikes as unlawful and claimed a Colombian fisherman was among the dead.
• Tess Bridgman: “But it is at odds with our broader strategy for actually combating drug trafficking in the region. If we want to actually make a dent, we have to look at land routes and… cooperating with the governments in the region, not cutting off aid.” ([07:31])

6. Regime Change Overtones

• Trump revealed CIA covert missions inside Venezuela and doubled the bounty on Maduro.
• Jane Coaston: “Is Trump trying to settle this unfinished business of pushing out a leader he doesn’t like?” ([08:34])
• Tess Bridgman: “If they can do it in the Caribbean, they may as well do it in Venezuela next.… I think we should keep our eye on what's going on with who the president is labeling as a terrorist and what the limiting principle is…” ([09:09])

7. Congressional Checks: What’s Possible?

• Senators Rand Paul (R-KY) and Tim Kaine (D-VA) criticized and sought to limit the strikes.
• Congress can:
  • Pass a resolution to force the president to cease operations.
  • Use the War Powers Resolution—60 days after reporting, the president must terminate unauthorised military actions unless Congress votes otherwise.
  • Exercise funding and oversight powers.
• Tess Bridgman: “There's lots they can do in the oversight domain, but they could actually stop these actions with a vote under the War Powers Resolution or with cutting off the funds for them if they had the votes to do it.” ([11:23])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Rand Paul on Meet the Press: “When you kill someone… you have to accuse them of something… So all these people have been blown up without us knowing their name, without any evidence of a crime.” ([02:29])
• Tess Bridgman: “At bottom, what's going on here is the administration is asserting that the President can simply order the military to engage in killings outside of the law. And there's a name for that. It's murder.” ([04:57])
• Tess Bridgman: “It could be a prelude to regime change… they've certainly been making not so veiled threats about Maduro in particular... If they move in that direction, we'll get a whole new level of illegal, because they'd also be using force against Venezuela.” ([09:09])
• Jane Coaston: “This feels like a moment where you're like, but I thought you had to ask Congress. And meanwhile, we're shelling fishing boats.” ([10:42])

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Key Segment Timestamps

• [00:02–01:27] – Introduction and summary of escalating U.S. strikes off Venezuela.
• [01:27–02:45] – Punditry on war justification, media/political spin, and expert clarifications.
• [03:27–05:51] – Interview: Tess Bridgman breaks down the lack of evidence and legal issues with the strikes.
• [06:15–08:34] – Discussion of survivor detentions; U.S.-Colombia fallout; regional strategy failures.
• [08:34–10:42] – Discussion of regime change motives and U.S. strategy toward Maduro.
• [10:42–13:06] – Potential Congressional checks; explanation of War Powers Act implications.

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Additional News Briefs (Short Recap)

• Rand Paul Snubbed: Trump excludes Sen. Rand Paul from White House luncheon in a public display of political tensions ([16:02]).
• Affordable Care Act: House Republicans under pressure from constituents about ACA subsidies and shutdown stance ([16:15]).
• Middle East Update: VP J.D. Vance visits Israel; calls for patience on hostage returns, with ongoing ceasefire violations ([18:05]).
• ICE Recruits: High failure rates on ICE physical fitness tests highlight recruitment struggles ([19:25]).

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Tone & Highlights

• The episode maintains a crisp, skeptical, and at times sardonic tone consistent with Jane Coaston’s style, particularly in calling out political spin and poking fun at both the seriousness and absurdity of contemporary politics.
• The legal analysis from Tess Bridgman is clear, urgent, and uncompromising, emphasizing the absence of evidence and the potential for catastrophic escalation.
• The episode is grounded in facts but inflected with wry commentary, especially when unpacking administration justifications and congressional impotence.

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Conclusion

Listeners come away with a thorough understanding of the controversy over U.S. strikes in the Caribbean—how little evidence has been presented, the serious questions over legality, and the risks of escalating toward outright regime change in Venezuela. The episode clarifies what Congress could do next, while exposing the disconnect between official narratives and established facts. If you missed the interview, Tess Bridgman’s expert breakdown is essential listening for anyone tracking the intersection of foreign policy, law, and presidential power in 2025.

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Transcript

[Jane Costen]

It's Wednesday, October 22nd. I'm Jane Costen and this is what a day. The show sending warm, well, cool thoughts to users of the 8 Sleep Pod mattress. See, the 8 Sleep Pod mattress is a smart bed which uses Amazon Web Services to control temperature and other settings. And when AWS went down Monday, so did the temperature control settings on the smart mattress, which led to overheating and other seriously annoying problems for people who just wanted to sleep on their mattress like normal people. Many things can and should be smart. You, maybe your phone and your watch. But I think it's okay if your mattress is dumb. On today's show, ICE is losing the fight to push ups. And President Donald Trump channels his inner Regina George by inviting every GOP senator to a White House luncheon except for Kentucky Republican senator and fugly slut Rand Paul. But let's start with a Are we going to war with Venezuela? Because after more than two months of strikes on boats off the coast of the South American country that the Trump administration has alleged are involved with cartels and narco terrorists, I'm not exactly sure. See, Trump keeps saying that this is all about stopping the flow of fentanyl into the United States. Here's House Speaker Mike Johnson speaking to ABC's Jonathan Karl on this Week Last Sunday.

[Guest or Correspondent (possibly a co-host or reporter)]

Don't you have questions for him about what's happening in Venezuela? We have this buildup around Venezuela. We have the targeting of these boats. I mean, you must at least have questions about, you have drug cartels bringing in fentanyl and boatloads of it that would kill potentially hundreds of thousands of Americans. What we're doing is restoring. There are no questions about how they're doing.

[Tess Bridgman]

No.

[Guest or Correspondent (possibly a co-host or reporter)]

I believe in peace through strength.

[Jane Costen]

And here's Eric Trump, who's not actually a part of his dad's administration, but, you know, who cares about rules, explaining on Fox News last week that, yes, this is all about stopping fentanyl from entering the US and now every single.

[Guest or Correspondent (possibly a co-host or reporter)]

Time a boat goes out of Venezuela, it's get blown up into a million pieces. Martha, that's exactly what's happening every single day. I personally have four friends that have lost children to fentanyl.

[Jane Costen]

But there are actually a few problems with this narrative. First and foremost, we don't actually know if anyone on the seven boats struck by US Forces in the Caribbean Sea were involved in drug trafficking or who they even were. That's the point Kentucky Republican Senator Rand Paul made on Meet the Press last Sunday.

[Guest or Correspondent (possibly a co-host or reporter)]

You know, when you kill someone, you should know if you're not in at war, not in a declared war. You really need to know someone's name. At least you have to accuse them of something. You have to present evidence. So all these people have been blown up without us knowing their name, without any evidence of a crime.

[Jane Costen]

Secondly, Venezuela isn't a source of fentanyl. According to experts consulted by the New York Times, most of the fentanyl used in the United States comes from Mexico, where the drug is made with chemicals from China and other Asian countries. And then there's the fact that while the Trump administration has said their focus is on stopping drug traffickers, their actions seem way more focused on getting rid of Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro. Sounds very regime changey to me. So to talk more about Venezuela and the legality, or lack of said, of the Trump administration's actions, I spoke to Tess Bridgman. She's the co editor in chief of Just Security and visiting scholar at the Rice center on Law and Security at the NYU School of Law. Tess Bridgman, welcome to What a day.

[Tess Bridgman]

Thanks for having me. It's good to be here.

[Jane Costen]

Since early September, there have been a series of US Strikes on vessels in the Caribbean Sea off the coast of Venezuela, and dozens of people have been killed. I believe that there have been seven strikes that we know of. Right. It's a big proviso here. The Trump administration claims the boats are involved in drug trafficking, calling the people aboard things like narco terrorists. Have any of these claims been substantiated.

[Tess Bridgman]

So far as we know? They have not. The administration has not been terribly forthcoming. They say that they have intelligence indicating that there are drug smugglers, which they call narco terrorists, as you said, on board these vessels. But even in closed briefings with Congress, what we've heard from members coming out of those briefings is that they're really unsatisfied with the lack of information coming from the administration about who's on board, what drugs are allegedly on board those vessels, where they left from, where they're heading to. There are huge question marks just around those basic facts for pretty much all of these strikes.

[Jane Costen]

And let's say, theoretically, we knew that these were indeed drug traffickers. What legal jurisdiction does President Trump have to attack boats in the Caribbean Sea anyway? And when is it legal to use this kind of force? Because as far as I know, as of right now, we are not at war with Venezuela. And these are, you know, this is international waters. As far as I know.

[Tess Bridgman]

Yeah, that is the question. So it's very clear that you can only use military force in self defense when there's been an armed attack or an imminent threat of armed attack, that justifies the right of self defense in response. We haven't had an armed attack here. We are not in an ongoing armed conflict. So there is no justification for the use of military force against these boats, whether they're in international waters or somewhere else. But the administration also isn't operating in a law enforcement paradigm. They're not using the Coast Guard to get these vessels to stop, to arrest the people on board, to confiscate the drugs. They're not using any legal process at all. So at bottom, what's going on here is the administration is asserting that the President can simply order the military to engage in killings outside of the law. And there's a need for that. It's murder.

[Jane Costen]

Something else that struck me over the weekend. Trump announced that two survivors of a recent strike on an alleged drug smuggling vessel were being returned to their respective home countries, Colombia and Ecuador, for prosecution there. Trump, of course, called the survivors terrorists. But on Monday, authorities in Ecuador released the Ecuadorian survivor because prosecutors said there was no evidence he did anything. What do we know about their survivors, if anything?

[Tess Bridgman]

We don't know much. I think if we do learn more, we're likely to learn that. We're likely to learn information from Ecuadorian or Colombian authorities or civil society or news media there that has access to them and is likely to tell us more. I sure hope Congress is asking the administration and that the media continues to ask the administration what they know. They held these people for, I think, a couple of days in the end, so they ought to know more. But more importantly, they ought to have known a lot more than what they've said publicly before they tried to kill them. So let's keep in mind that these are two survivors, right, of one of these unlawful strikes on a boat going from where to where, carrying what? Right. We need a lot more facts in order to know that. But presumably, if those facts were sufficient to detain them or for a foreign country to prosecute them, the administration is claiming they were sufficient to in fact, kill them. So they ought to be able to tell us what it is that they're suspected of doing, who they are right where they were headed. These basic facts are just simply not known right now.

[Jane Costen]

This week, Trump has also decided to make enemies with our strongest military ally in South America, Colombia. He slashed aid to the country and called President Gustavo Petro a, quote, illegal drug leader. What sparked this?

[Tess Bridgman]

Yeah, well, Petro has not been mincing words in explaining that these strikes in the Caribbean are not lawful. And he has been making clear that killing outside of armed conflict is not something that the rule of law can abide. He has claimed that one of the victims of one of the earlier strikes was actually a Colombian fisherman and has said, essentially the Trump administration has murdered this Colombian fisherman at sea. Obviously, Trump doesn't like being called out in that way. He and Petro have have had beef in the past as well. So it's not, in fact, surprising that Trump would lash out in this way. But it is at odds with our broader strategy for actually combating drug trafficking in the region. If we want to actually make a dent, we have to look at land routes, and we have to look at cooperating with the governments in the region, not cutting off aid. That is what, in fact, enables that cooperation.

[Jane Costen]

I think that this goes to my overarching concern, which is that I don't think this is really about drugs at all. Trump recently revealed that the CIA is conducting covert missions in Venezuela. You know, the way you tell people what the CIA is doing. And during his first administration, Trump tried and failed to push Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro out of power. Trump is still going after Maduro and has doubled the US bounty on his head to $50 million. And is basically the making all of the sounds you make when you want to do regime change. Is that what's happening here? Is Trump trying to settle this unfinished business of pushing out a leader he doesn't like?

[Tess Bridgman]

It could be a prelude to regime change. That's obviously yet to be seen. But look, since the beginning of this, there have kind of been two things going on in parallel, and they're related. One is these strikes on individual boats, and they've killed 32 people. So it's not a small matter, but it's happening alongside this much larger buildup of military assets in the region. Trump. And look, also Hegseth Rubio, others in the administration have been using out loud about strikes on land, and they've certainly been making not so veiled threats about Maduro in particular, who's been, of course, someone Rubio has personally wanted to dislodge from power for quite a long time. If they move in that direction, we'll get a whole new level of illegal, because they'd also be using force against Venezuela and a whole new level of, I think, disaster and chaos in the region. But it's not clear to me which cooler heads are going to prevail if they've been getting away with this in the Caribbean so far. That's why it's incredibly important for people to call this out for what it is and for Congress to really step up and do its job. Because if they can do it in the Caribbean, they may as well do it in Venezuela next. And they might label others terrorists and try to use the same playbook against them. So I think we should keep our eye on what's going on with who the president is labeling as a terrorist and what the limiting principle is for when he says he can use force against them. His deployments of the military domestically don't give us a lot of comfort that he might not try to use the same playbook here.

[Jane Costen]

You talked about Congress, and we've heard from Kentucky Republican Senator Rand Paul and Virginia Democratic Senator Tim Kaine wanting to rein in these kind of strikes and especially wanting, wanting some answers to the questions you and I have just been asking. But do they have the power to check this kind of military action? I mean, there's this joke on Blue sky you'll see sometimes about how, you know, someone will joke, someone will say something about how like, but I thought dogs couldn't play basketball and the dog is like dribbling around them. And this feels like a moment where you're like, but I thought you had to ask Congress. And meanwhile, we're shelling fisher fishing boats. So what can lawmakers actually do here?

[Tess Bridgman]

There are a lot of things they can do if they have a little bit of bipartisan unity, and that tends to be the problem here. There's some things they can do even without that. So first and foremost, they can pass a resolution saying that the President has to terminate the use of US Armed forces in these operations. They tried to do that and failed on what was more or less a party line vote, though not completely earlier this month. And there's likely to be a resolution teed up soon that rather than trying to force the President to withdraw from these particular operations in the Caribbean, tries to prevent him from being able to use force inside Venezuela. So we should keep our eyes on that vote coming up using the fast track procedures of the War Powers Resolution. Another thing that's going to be coming up soon, which is also a mechanism of the War Powers Resolution, which is a statute Congress passed back in 1973 to try to rein in a past President Nixon and his uses and abuses of the military abroad, is that within 60 days of reporting that first strike, actually just by operation of law, without Congress doing anything else, the President is required to terminate the use of armed forces unless they've been authorized by Congress. So unless we see Congress taking a vote saying yes, you may start striking whoever is in these vessels come around November 4th, the War Powers Resolution 60 day clock is going to run and Congress needs to insist that that be honored. There's lots they can do in the oversight domain, but they could actually stop these actions with a vote under the War Powers Resolution or with cutting off the funds for them if they had the votes to do it.

[Jane Costen]

Tess, thank you so much for joining me. This has been super informative.

[Tess Bridgman]

Thank you. It was a pleasure to be on.

[Jane Costen]

That was my conversation with Tess Bridgman, Co Editor in Chief of Just Security and Visiting Scholar at the Rice center on Law and Security at the NYU School of Law. We'll link to her work in our show notes. We'll get to more of the news in a moment, but if you like the show, make sure to subscribe. Leave a five star review on Apple Podcasts, watch us on YouTube and share with your friends. More to come after some ads. What a day is brought to you by Aura Frames need the perfect gift for literally anyone Get a digital picture frame from Aura. I take photos, a lot of photos, and I want to see them. So having an Aura frame has been a godsend. It comes with unlimited storage and simple controls on the frame so you can upload as many photos as you want. And mom or dad or anyone else can pick the perfect one. See why it was named the 1 digital frame by Wirecutter, the Strategist and Wired. You can save on the perfect gift that keeps on giving by visiting auraframes.com for a limited time. Listeners can get $20 off their best selling Carver mat frame with code Aura20. That's a U R A frames.com promo code Aura20. Support the show by mentioning us at checkout. Terms and conditions apply.

[Guest or Correspondent (possibly a co-host or reporter)]

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[Jane Costen]

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[Guest or Correspondent (possibly a co-host or reporter)]

Seriously, it's $15 a month 3 no big contracts 4 I use it 5 My mom uses it Are you. Are you playing me off? That's what's happening, right? Okay, give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront.

[Tess Bridgman]

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[Jane Costen]

Extra cementmobile.com here's what else we're following today. Head of lines is that there's rumors.

[Tess Bridgman]

That he reached out to you about meeting on the government shutdown. Will you meet with him before you leave for Asia on Friday?

[Guest or Correspondent (possibly a co-host or reporter)]

Well, I will. Actually. I'd love to meet with them. I just want them to open up the country first.

[Jane Costen]

President Trump made his position about ending the shutdown clear to reporters in the Oval Office on Tuesday, hours before Trump gathered GOP senators in the Rose Garden for lunch. Every Republican senator received that invite except for one.

[Guest or Correspondent (possibly a co-host or reporter)]

If everybody we're just missing one person. You'll never guess who that is. Let me give you he automatically votes knowing everything. He thinks it's good politics.

[Jane Costen]

It's really not on the outside. Looking in was Kentucky Republican Senator Rand Paul, who is, I must admit, pretty good at politics, given that he has been in the Senate since 2011. He has voted against the GOP resolution to fund the government, arguing that it would add too much to the national debt. And in response to his snub, Paul took the age old approach of pretending he had cooler plans anyway. The senator tweeted out a picture with GOP House member Thomas Massie, another Kentucky Republican who has opposed some of Trump's agenda for being too costly. Also on Tuesday, A group of 13 House Republicans wrote a letter to Speaker Mike Johnson advocating for the extension of the Affordable Care act subsidies that Democrats are holding out for during the government shutdown. Their letter makes it clear that they oppose negotiating over health care until the government is reopened and that significant reforms are needed to make these credits more fiscally responsible. But at the same time, the letter is a sign of just how much pressure some GOP politicians in competitive districts are feeling during the Shutdown. Vice President J.D. vance arrived in Israel on Tuesday and said that he has, quote, great optimism the ceasefire between Israel and Hamas will hold. That's despite both sides accusing each other of violating the terms of the agreements since it went into effect earlier this month. On Sunday, Israeli military strikes killed at least 45 people in Gaza, according to health officials there. Israel says it launched those strikes in response to an attack in which Hamas militants killed two Israeli soldiers in southern Gaza since the start of the ceasefire. Israel has allowed more aid to go into Gaza, but is still keeping the Rafah border crossing with Egypt closed over accusations that Hamas is delaying the return of bodies of deceased hostages. Hamas returned two more bodies on Tuesday. Speaking at a press conference earlier in the day, flanked by Jared Kushner and special envoy to the Middle East Steve Witkoff, Vance did call for some patience when it comes to the return of the bodies.

[Guest or Correspondent (possibly a co-host or reporter)]

This is difficult. This is not going to happen overnight. Some of these hostages are buried under thousands of pounds of rubble. Some of the hostages, nobody even knows where they are. That doesn't mean we shouldn't work to get them, and that doesn't mean we don't have confidence that we will. It's just a reason to counsel in favor of a little bit of patience.

[Jane Costen]

But because patience is not a word Donald Trump understands. The president posted Tuesday on Truth Social that if Hamas does not uphold its end of the ceasefire, quote, an end to Hamas will be fast furious and brutal. Now for some potentially good news for pro Palestinian activist and recent Columbia University graduate Mahmoud Halil. On Tuesday, Halil and his lawyers appeared before a federal appeals panel in Pennsylvania to argue that the government tried to unlawfully redetain or deport him after his release from a Louisiana detention center in June. His team says it's in retaliation for Halil's pro Palestinian speech during university protests, which is a clear violation of his First Amendment rights. The panel sounded skeptical of the government's case. Here's Halil speaking outside the federal courthouse.

[Guest or Correspondent (possibly a co-host or reporter)]

I feel confident, of course, the Trump administration is still trying to re detain me. They're trying to stop actually the federal court from looking at my case because they know they don't have a case against me.

[Jane Costen]

The 3rd Circuit said it will need time to deliberate, and the judges did not issue a ruling. But it's looking good for Halil. Unfortunately, that's where the good news ends. Halil still faces separate deportation proceedings in Louisiana, where ICE transferred him after his arrest in New York. Back in April, an immigration judge in Louisiana sided with ice, ruling that Khalil could be deported to Syria or Algeria not for his activism, but over what the government called technical errors on his green card application. Halil's lawyers have said they intend to appeal the deportation order. Immigration and Customs Enforcement is facing its toughest battle yet. And no, it's not Portlanders in animal costumes. It's fitness testing. According to a report by the Atlantic, more than a third of ICE recruits at the agency's training academy in Georgia have failed the fitness test so far. The test consists of 15 push ups, 32 sit ups and also running 1.5 miles in 14 minutes, two officials told the Atlantic the 1.5 mile run has toppled more trainees than any other requirement. Am I shocked that the Department of Homeland Security's white nationalist adjacent joint ICE ads haven't been attracting our nation's best? Not really. Department of Homeland Security officials say the failure rate is just a small group of candidates and doesn't reflect the larger pool. Sure. Officials told the Atlantic the slow walking brigade is hindering the agency's plan to hire, train and deploy 10,000 deportation officers by January. Womp, womp. The magazine also cited an email from ICE headquarters to the agency's top officials that said, quote, a considerable amount of athletically allergic candidates had been showing up to the academy. One official told the Atlanta quote, it's pathetic. Checks out. And that's the news before we go. The holidays are around the corner and we're excited for gathering, baking and our favorite tradition, participating in the unhinged discourse about Santa. Just in time, the Cricut store brought back the fan favorite. Santa is a woman crew neck sweatshirts and long sleeve tees, this time in festive new colors. Grab one to wear to your next holiday party or at your family Christmas, both of which were definitely organized by a woman because a man has never been thoughtful enough to get every sibling the perfect gift, let alone the whole world. Pick one up [e-mail] store. That's all for today. If you like the show, make sure you subscribe, leave a review, wave goodbye to Paul Nazi Streak in Gracia, then tell your friends to listen. And if you're into reading and not just about the racist group Texter nominated to run the Office of Special Counsel, reportedly withdrawing his nomination despite what he called on Twitter quote, overwhelming support on Like Me. What a Day is also a nightly newsletter. Check it out and [e-mail] subscribe I'm Jane Coston and hardest hit by Ingracia's exit, his mom who literally banged on Maryland Democratic Representative Jamie Raskin's office door back in June and demanded a meeting to explain how great her son really was. Sad. What a Day is a production of Crooked Media. It's recorded and mixed by Desmond Taylor. Our associate producers are Emily Foer and Chris Allport. Our video editor is Joseph Dutra. Our video producer is Johanna Case. We had production help today from Greg Walters, Matt Berg, Kaitlyn Plummer, Tyler Hill and Ethan Oberman. Our senior producer is Erica Morrison, and our senior vice president of news and politics is Adrienne Hill. We had help today from the Associated Press. Our theme music is by Colin Gilliard and Kashaka. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America. East.

[Guest or Correspondent (possibly a co-host or reporter)]

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[Jane Costen]

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