Trump’s DoD Pick Scrambles To Salvage His Nomination

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Trump’s DoD Pick Scrambles To Salvage His Nomination"

Podcast Information:

• Title: What A Day
• Host: Jane Costen (Crooked Media)
• Episode Title: Trump’s DoD Pick Scrambles To Salvage His Nomination
• Release Date: December 5, 2024

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Introduction and Overview

In the December 5, 2024 episode of What A Day, host Jane Costen delves into the tumultuous nomination process of former Fox News host Pete Hegseth, President-elect Donald Trump's pick for Secretary of Defense. The episode also touches on other pertinent news topics, including senators questioning airline executives over junk fees and President-elect Biden’s diplomatic endeavors in Africa.

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Pete Hegseth's Nomination Challenges

Nomination Hearing and Defense Efforts

Former Fox News host Pete Hegseth appeared before Capitol Hill senators to defend his nomination for Secretary of Defense (00:01). Hegseth is actively engaged in damage control to address concerns surrounding his personal scandals.

Hegseth's Stance and Trump's Instructions

At [00:51], Hegseth stated:

“That's what Donald Trump asked me to do. Your job is to bring a war fighting ethos back to the Pentagon. Your job is to make sure that it's lethality, lethality, lethality. Everything else is gone. Everything else that distracts from that shouldn't be happening. That's the message I'm hearing from senators in that advise and consent process. And it's been a wonderful process.”

Opposition and Scandal

Despite Hegseth's efforts, his nomination faces significant hurdles. Connecticut Democratic Senator Richard Blumenthal revealed that several Republicans privately oppose Hegseth, expressing reservations about his suitability for the role (01:11). The New Yorker reported Hegseth’s problematic history, including forced exits from veteran organizations due to accusations of womanizing and poor financial management, as well as concerns about his drinking habits highlighted by former Fox News colleagues (01:11).

Personal Controversies

Hegseth's personal life has been scrutinized extensively:

• Sexual Assault Allegations: Last month, Hegseth settled a case involving allegations of sexual assault from 2017, which he denied, and no charges were filed (02:15).
• Marital Issues: His tumultuous personal life includes two of his three marriages ending due to infidelity. Vanity Fair reported five affairs during his first marriage and a child with a Fox producer during his second, who is now his third wife (02:50).
• Family Disapproval: In a 2018 email, Hegseth's mother, Penelope, harshly criticized his behavior, stating:

  “I have no respect for any man that belittles, lies, cheats, sleeps around and uses women for his own power and ego. You are that man.” (03:00) She later retracted her statement, appearing on Fox News to support her son (03:12).

Support for Hegseth

Despite the controversies, some defend Hegseth's qualifications. Paul McCleary of Politico commends Hegseth's communication skills and leadership abilities, asserting:

“You are good communicator. You have to think on your feet. You take charge.” (03:12)

Alternative Candidates and Implications

With Hegseth's nomination in jeopardy, President-elect Trump is reportedly considering other candidates, including Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, his 2024 primary opponent (01:30). DeSantis brings military legal experience from his deployment in Iraq and governance experience from leading Florida, potentially making him a viable alternative (05:59).

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Insights from Experts

Discussion with Richard Blumenthal and Paul McCleary

Jane Costen engaged with Senator Richard Blumenthal and Paul McCleary to explore the broader implications of Hegseth's nomination and Trump's national security appointments.

Concerns Over Leadership and Integrity

Blumenthal expressed significant concerns regarding Hegseth’s lifestyle and personal conduct:

“The secretary of defense has to be, it's 247 job... extramarital affairs... it's a security risk, it's a blackmail risk.” (04:43)

He also highlighted the potential politicization of the military through loyalty tests targeting Pentagon leaders, which could undermine the apolitical nature of the armed forces (05:07).

Role and Responsibilities of the Secretary of Defense

Blumenthal described the multifaceted role of the Secretary of Defense, emphasizing the necessity for robust leadership, diplomatic skills, and unwavering commitment to national security:

“You are in charge of all the branches of the armed services... managing the budget... acting as a diplomat not only to your counterparts in different countries...” (07:16)

National Security Priorities

Blumenthal and McCleary discussed Trump's apparent focus on the Indo-Pacific region, particularly addressing challenges posed by China and maintaining commitments to European allies:

“There’s going to be a heavy focus on China... much less so Europe. But I don't see us walking away from Europe.” (08:06)

Risks of Inexperienced Appointees

They also addressed the dangers of appointing individuals with limited experience to critical national security positions, underscoring the potential risks to American lives and safety:

“If effective and competent people aren't nominated... who’s in charge?” (09:33)

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Additional News Highlights

President Biden’s Diplomatic Mission in Africa

President-elect Joe Biden concluded his foreign trip in Angola, marking the first U.S. presidential visit to Africa since Barack Obama in 2015. Biden announced a $600 million investment in a transcontinental rail project aimed at enhancing U.S. access to Africa's natural resources for batteries and electric vehicles (10:12). However, a viral clip surfaced showing Biden falling asleep during a meeting, casting a shadow over his diplomatic efforts (11:00).

Senate Hearings on Airline Junk Fees

Senators grilled airline executives over the prevalence of "junk fees" for services like checked bags and water bottles. Democratic Senator Maggie Hassan questioned why these fees aren't included in ticket prices, to which executives provided vague justifications, citing optional add-ons (19:37). Republican Senator Josh Hawley pressed Spirit Airlines executive Matthew Klein on the pricing strategy for checked bags, culminating in a terse exchange where Klein denied any personal characteristic-based pricing (19:38).

Democratic Party and Working-Class Voter Disillusionment

The episode also explored the Democratic Party's struggle to retain working-class voters, despite President Biden’s pro-union stance. Labor reporter Max Alvarez discussed how decades of deregulation and economic policies have eroded working-class support, leading to voters turning towards populist figures like Donald Trump who exploit existing frustrations without offering substantial solutions (21:14).

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Key Quotes and Timestamps

• Pete Hegseth on Pentagon Priorities (00:51):

  “Your job is to bring a war fighting ethos back to the Pentagon... lethality, lethality, lethality...”

• Hegseth’s Mother Critiques Him (03:00):

  “You are that man.”

• Paul McCleary on Hegseth’s Qualifications (03:12):

  “You're a good communicator. You have to think on your feet. You take charge.”

• Richard Blumenthal on Military Leadership Concerns (04:43):

  "Extramarital affairs... it's a security risk, it's a blackmail risk."

• Max Alvarez on Democrats’ Struggles (22:53):

  “It's just taken this long for this many people to be feeling it all at once...”

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Conclusion

The episode of What A Day provides an in-depth analysis of Pete Hegseth’s fraught nomination for Secretary of Defense amidst personal scandals and political opposition. Expert insights from Senator Richard Blumenthal and labor reporter Max Alvarez shed light on broader national security and political dynamics, highlighting the challenges facing both the incoming Trump administration and the Democratic Party's efforts to reconnect with the working class. Additionally, the episode touches on President Biden’s diplomatic initiatives and ongoing legislative battles, offering listeners a comprehensive overview of the current political landscape.

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Note: This summary excludes advertisements, intros, outros, and non-content sections to focus solely on the substantive discussions and key points presented in the episode.

Transcript

[Jane Costen]

It's Thursday, December 5th. I'm Jane Costen and this is what a day. The show that, unlike Pete Hegseth and Elon Musk, doesn't need to bring its mom along for emotional support at big meetings. Here's a if you're old enough to have meetings, you are too old to bring your mom to them. On today's show, senators grill airline executives over junk fees and Trump is trying to get yet another case against him dismissed. Let's get into it. Former Fox News host Pete Hegseth President elect Donald Trump's pick to run the Pentagon was on Capitol Hill Wednesday to meet with senators. He's doing whatever damage control he can to try and salvage his nomination for defense secretary and ease senators fears over the ballooning scandal around his very, very messy personal life. Hegseth told reporters that Trump said keep fighting for the job.

[Pete Hegseth]

That's what Donald Trump asked me to do. Your job is to bring a war fighting ethos back to the Pentagon. Your job is to make sure that it's lethality, lethality, lethality. Everything else is gone. Everything else that distracts from that shouldn't be happening. That's the message I'm hearing from senators in that advise and consent process. And it's been a wonderful process.

[Jane Costen]

But Higseth's nomination is hanging by a thread. Connecticut Democratic Senator Richard Blumenthal told reporters some of his Republican colleagues privately oppose him. I've talked to five to 10 Republicans who have said to me they're just waiting for the right moment to say no to PTEs. And in the background, Trump is already considering other names to run the pentagon, including his 2024 primary opponent and best frenemy, Florida Governor Ron DeSantis. It speaks to just how bad the scandal swirling around Hegseth is right now. This week, a story in the New Yorker described in pretty vivid detail how Hegseth was forced out of top jobs at two nonprofit veterans organizations he ran. Former employees complained about his womanizing and his bad financial management. NBC News reported that some of Hegseth's colleagues at Fox News also raised concerns about his drinking. Two people told the network that on more than a dozen occasions they could smell alcohol on him before he went on air. He should not be secretary of defense. Another former Fox News employee said his drinking should be disqualifying. Keep in mind that he hosted a show that starts at 6am and that's on top of last month's news that Hegseth paid a settlement to a woman who accused him of sexual assault back in 2017, Hegseth denied any wrongdoing and local police didn't bring charges in the case. This is also to say nothing of the fact that two of his three marriages ended over his infidelity. According to Vanity Fair, he had five affairs while married to his first wife, and his second marriage ended because he had a child with a producer at Fox. That producer is now his third wife. Messy, messy, messy. Even Hegseth's own mother, Penelope, called him out on his Bullshit. In a 2018 email obtained by the New York Times, she wrote, I have no respect for any man that belittles, lies, cheats, sleeps around and uses women for his own power and ego. You are that man. His own mother said this. Penelope Higseff says she immediately followed up that email with an apology and now claims her son is a changed man. She went on Fox News Wednesday to advocate for him.

[Paul McCleary]

I believe he's the man for the job. I think being a TV news host, I think prepares you for most things in a position like this. You're a good communicator. You have to think on your feet. You take charge. So I think everybody should do a year with Fox.

[Richard Blumenthal]

There you go.

[Jane Costen]

Why would senators be worried? For more on Hegseth and the responsibilities he'd have to shoulder as Secretary of Defense, I spoke with Paul McCleary. He covers the Pentagon and national security for Politico. Paul, welcome to what a day. Hi.

[Richard Blumenthal]

Thanks.

[Jane Costen]

So we've seen this kind of drip, drip, drip of scandal around Hegseth since Trump announced him as his pick for Secretary of Defense last month. What's been the reaction within the Pentagon as news of his affairs, his drinking habits and the allegation of sexual assault began to make news?

[Richard Blumenthal]

Yeah, I mean, I think there's real concern and I think the biggest concern here is these reports that came out a few weeks ago about some of these warrior boards that the Trump administration is considering that would get rid of. We don't know how many, but several or dozens of three and four star generals and admirals that weren't considered loyal enough to Trump or are quote, unquote, woke and things like that, which would kind of create a, almost a loyalty test. Right. So those are real concerns. I mean, and as far as the alcohol abuse and things like that and those allegations, the secretary of defense has to be, it's 247 job. You know, there's not a lot of hanging out at bars at night and things like that. And you need to be woken up at three in the morning at Four in the morning and be on call. So I think those kind of lifestyle allegations and concerns are really what concerns the Pentagon. There's also extramarital affairs. I mean, people in the military get fired for that. Right. It's a security risk, it's a blackmail risk. So all these things are creating a lot of worry in, in the building.

[Jane Costen]

You mentioned the warrior boards, and I know this is an obvious question, but why is that a big deal, this idea of loyalty tests for Pentagon leaders?

[Richard Blumenthal]

Yeah, I mean, on its face, they'd say they're going to, they want to lop off leaders who don't meet the standard, who are not focused on lethality and war fighting, et cetera, et cetera. But then what does that mean when, when it comes down to it, Right. Does that mean if someone, you know, followed the legal, lawful orders of President Biden, would they consider that a reason for termination? And that kind of politicizes the military, which has always prided itself since the beginning of being an apolitical institution. Right. I mean, folks in the military obviously can vote, can have their opinions, but when it comes down to it, whoever the president is, if they issue a lawful order, you follow the lawful order.

[Jane Costen]

There's been some reporting that Trump may tap Florida Governor Ron DeSantis for the job of Secretary of Defense. He has military experience, and he's also been leading a pretty big state for the last couple of years. How do people feel about him?

[Richard Blumenthal]

I mean, DeSantis, he was a, he was a military lawyer. He deployed to Iraq where he was attached to a SEAL team, and he didn't do any fighting, but he was, you know, he was, he was their legal advisor. So he did it. As you said. He's also been governor of Florida, which is, he's managed hundreds of thousands of people and run a state that is population and GDP wise rivals or beats many smaller nations. So I think DeSantis would probably make it through pretty easily. He's got the experience. I mean, you run into some problems, probably politically with J.D. vance, who would probably want to run in 2028, and so will Ron DeSantis and, you know, the team of rivals, things going, but on his face. DeSantis, you know, Secretary of Defense is a job of a manager managing a couple million people. It's. You're not moving troops around on the chessboard. Right. You're not making those kind of decisions. It's managerial, it's managing people. It's being a diplomat overseas and things like that.

[Jane Costen]

So, yeah, I want to get into that A little bit, because it's, you know, the Department of Defense is the largest government agency in the United States. It has a nearly $900 billion budget that will likely increase under Trump. So what does it mean to actually be in charge of the entire Defense Department? You mentioned that you become a manager, you're sort of a diplomat, you're very visible. What does that look like?

[Richard Blumenthal]

Yeah, it's all the above. I mean, it's one of the most complicated jobs, I think, in the US Government. I mean, one, you are in charge of all the branches of the armed services, from, you know, folks on submarines to folks in outer space. They all have very different needs, very different, you know, and managing the budget there, too. You know, you travel all over the world acting as not a Secretary of state, but you're acting as the face of the United States. You're acting as a diplomat not only to your counterparts in different countries, but also to their foreign ministries, also to their heads of state.

[Jane Costen]

Looking at some of Trump's other national security picks, like former Representative Tulsi Gabbard for Director of National Intelligence, his former dni, John Ratcliffe for CIA Director, and Congressman Mike Walz for National Security adviser, what do you think these choices say about Trump's national security priorities over the next four years?

[Richard Blumenthal]

I think it's going to be a very Indo Pacific focused strategy. I mean, you have Mike Walts as National Security advisor, Alex Wong, deputy National Security adviser, who are very focused on meeting the challenges that China presents, obviously, not only economically, but militarily. So I think for sure, I mean, we'll see it as a Pentagon nominees kind of kind of shake out a little bit further. But there's going to be a heavy focus on China, much less so Europe. But I don't see us walking away from Europe. There was some of that in the first Trump administration. I don't think that's really going to happen here. Year Europe has changed. It's a lot different than the Europe of 2016-2020. They're spending more on defense, they're more focused on Ukraine, they're taking more responsibility for what's happening in Ukraine, things like that. So the world is a very different place than it was four years ago when Trump left office. And I think some of the folks are going to reflect that. Marco Rubio, very conventional nominee for Secretary of State, just like Mike Walts for National Security advisor, very conventional. These guys aren't bomb throwers. So I think there'll be more continuity than maybe some of the Trump people would like to admit between the Biden administration and the Trump administration. But just as there was a lot of continuity between the Biden administration and the Trump administration going the other way.

[Jane Costen]

The people you just mentioned, like Senator Marco Rubio, they do have a lot of experience. But Hegseth and Gabbert, not so much. What are the risks of picking people with relatively little experience for these jobs where it's not an exaggeration to say that American lives and safety depend on them?

[Richard Blumenthal]

Yeah, Gabbard, it's kind of a special case. Right. She's been out of government for a little bit. I mean, she's still in the National Guard. So she has served and she continues to serve. She's an officer. There's a lot of opposition. Hasn't been as loud as Heg Seth or the Matt Gates and things like that. But that will be a difficult nomination to get through. Hegseth might benefit a bit from that. Just because Matt Gates dropped out, Gabbard's going to have a really hard time. And I think there's only so many areas where Senate Republicans are going to want to buck Trump or just buck a president from their own party in general. Right. Presidents get their nominees confirmed unless there's something so outstanding and so egregious that they drop out or they lose the nomination.

[Jane Costen]

These are tense times around the world. You've got wars in the Middle East, a war in Ukraine and emboldened Russia that's going to expand its defense budget by some, like, astronomical sum. China's growing global influence. What are some of the major security challenges this administration is likely to face? Because as I recall from when George W. Bush won the election in 2000, we didn't know there was going to be a 9, 11 the next year.

[Richard Blumenthal]

Right. Well, that's the thing. There's always the midnight surprise. Right. And I think that's some of the worry. If people, effective and competent people aren't nominated these positions, that if something like this happens, who's in charge? I mean, there are, as you said, there's the war in Ukraine that continues to go on. I mean, the Russians are taking 12 to 1500 casualties per day in Ukraine, but they're still pushing on and they're still gaining ground in Ukraine. Ukrainians are on their back foot, but they're holding on. China and Taiwan, obviously, is a big worry. You want to see what China is doing. And I think that the big concern here for a lot of folks in the Pentagon is this kind of new axis of cooperation between North Korea, Russia and China, there's Iran, and all these countries are all sharing military technology in worrying ways. The Indo Pacific commander, General or Admiral Samuel Paparo, recently said that he's worried that the Russians will share submarine and satellite technology with the North Koreans in payment for tens of thousands of North Korean troops fighting in Russia and in Ukraine. And that would be a game changer for the North Koreans if they did get some of this submarine technology. They have subs, but they can't really do much with them. If they can, you're going to see North Korean subs potentially, you know, popping up near aircraft carrier strike groups, near Hawaii, near Alaska, things like that. I mean, it's several years down the road, but once you open up that bottle, it's tough to stick the cork back in.

[Jane Costen]

Paul, thank you so much for joining me. This has been really informative.

[Richard Blumenthal]

Sure thing. Thanks.

[Jane Costen]

That was my conversation with Paul McCleary. He covers the Pentagon in national security for Politico. We'll get to more of the news in a moment, but if you like the show, make sure to subscribe, leave a five star review on Apple Podcasts, watch us on YouTube and share with your friends. More to come after some ads. What a day. It's brought to you by the Zero Emission Transportation Association Education Fund. The Zeta Education Fund wants Americans to know about the positive economic impact the EV and battery supply chain is having on our communities. Like how it's already created 240,000 jobs and attracted $177 billion of investment. More than a million EVs were sold in the US last year and there are currently over 200,000 public charging locations in the United States. Join forces with the Zeta Education Fund and help spread the facts about what a transition to EVs means for the future of America. Get on board@zeta zeta.org join this show is sponsored by BetterHelp. The holiday season is supposedly the most wonderful time of the year, but scheduling conflicts, expenses, family drama, it can take a toll. It's important not to lose sight of your mental well being. BetterHelp Online therapy is a great way to get into therapy. BetterHelp is designed to be convenient, flexible and built around your schedule. Fill out a questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist that fits your needs and preferences. Visit betterhelp.com wad today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H E L p.com wad Wadaday is brought to you by Sling. Seems like things change every 20 minutes. It's hard to keep up that's why you should watch Sling. They provide the best value for your essential news channels. With Sling, you get all of your favorite news channels at the best price. Fox News, CNN, MSNBC, Hannity, Anderson Cooper, 360, the Rachel Maddow show, and more for just $40 a month. So yeah, with the election coverage and everything else happening, you can get news that will raise your blood pressure at prices that won't. Get the best price on news about what's going on in the world. Then say that's what's going on in the world and it's not just news. Check this out. Sling has the live sports, news and entertainment channels you love and less of the ones you don't. So you save hundreds of dollars. Sling lets you choose and customize your channel lineup so you can choose the channels you actually like. Sling's cloud DVR lets you record your shows to watch in your schedule. There's no complex technology, no long term contracts, and no hidden rigmarole. I need to be able to watch football and I need to be able to watch football on my schedule. That's why I love Sling. Get rewarded for watching your favorite news channels. Sling lets you do that. Visit sling.com now to learn more and get started. That's sling.com now, sling.com now and now the news head of Lines.

[Richard Blumenthal]

To show.

[Jane Costen]

Up authentically is the easiest thing that you can do.

[Chase Strangio]

And to hate takes more labor than.

[Jane Costen]

It does to simply be Crowds rallied outside the Supreme Court Wednesday as it heard arguments over a Tennessee law that bans gender affirming care for minors. The Tennessee Equality Project gathered that sound. The court's conservative majority seemed to lean toward upholding the 2023 measurements. The law SB1 bars puberty blockers and hormone therapy for kids, but the Biden administration claimed the law violates the equal protection clause of the 14th Amendment. Chase Strangio, the first openly transgender attorney to argue before the Supreme Court, said the law, quote, has taken away the only treatment that relieved years of suffering for each of the adolescent plaintiffs. By banning treatment only when it allows an adolescent to live, identify or appear inconsistent with their birth sex, SB1 warrants heightened scrutiny under decades of precedent, strangio said after the hearing, quote, no matter what happens, we will keep fighting. Also arguing for the Biden administration was U.S. solicitor General Elizabeth Prelogar. Here she is responding to Justice Brett Kavanaugh, who said there's harm in these treatments. The rates of regret are very low because for the population that has access to this treatment. So these are adolescents who have marked and sustained gender dysphoria that has worked worsened with the onset of puberty. They are very likely to persist in their gender identity. In her closing arguments, Prelogger said the Tennessee law could also bring about nationwide restrictions on care for transgender minors. The Supreme Court will likely issue a decision on the case before the end of summer. President elect Donald Trump is trying to get a case against him dismissed. And no, you're not having deja vu from yesterday's news about the New York Hash Money case. Trump's attorneys filed paperwork Wednesday in Georgia to argue that once he takes office, Trump should be immune from the election interference case he faces there. The filing cites presidential immunity and claims Georgia won't have jurisdiction once Trump is president. It also lists special counsel Jack Smith's decision to drop two federal cases against Trump. In addition, Trump's lawyers mention a document from Bill Clinton's impeachment. The memo from within the Justice Department says it's unconstitutional for local prosecutors to interfere with a president's duties while in office. The Georgia case is already on hold while an appeals court decides whether Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis can remain on the case amidst a personal scandal. President Joe Biden was in Angola Wednesday, the last day of what is likely his final foreign trip in office. He's the first US president to visit Africa since Barack Obama in 2015. In a speech Wednesday, Biden promised another $600 million toward an ambitious rail project that would span the continent, building railroad lines from Angola to Puerto Libido in Zambia and the drc, and ultimately all the way to the Atlantic, from the Atlantic Ocean to the Indian Ocean. Be the first transcontinental railroad in Africa. The rail line will eventually give the US Better access to natural resources used for batteries and electric vehicles and devices. That fits into Biden's strategic goals for the trip. To keep the US in the conversation around economic development in Africa. China has dominated the continent economically in recent years. His argument about his commitment to African development was not helped, however, by the fact that he fell asleep during one of his meetings. In a clip that has now gone viral, senators put airline executives in the hot seat on Wednesday for all those junk fees they make us pay. Those are for things like checked bags or even just a bottle of water. Democratic Senator Maggie Hassan asked representatives from American, Delta and other airlines to explain why these fees aren't just included in the price of a plane ticket. We're all captives on your airplanes at a certain point, and you just say you want to pick a seat. We're just going to charge you some random amount more. And what we're trying to get at is why. And these airline executives didn't have a lot of answers. They mostly argue that travelers aren't obligated to pay these junk fees. They're just optional add ons for folks who want to travel more comfortably or who want to enjoy the luxury of bringing a few extra pairs of underwear on vacation. Senators also accused airlines of using chunk fees to turn a profit. And there's data to back that up. US airlines raked in more than $7 billion on baggage fees alone in 2023. Take a listen to this heated exchange between Republican Senator Josh Hawley and Spirit executive Matthew Klein. Hawley wanted to know how Spirit decides the price of a checked bag, which can go up to $99. How do you determine it? Is it based on personal characteristics? Women More it's never based on personal characteristics. In charge of minors more. We, we do not.

[Max Alvarez]

S. What?

[Jane Costen]

Just people who are suckers.

[Richard Blumenthal]

I mean, how do you, how do you, how do you do it?

[Jane Costen]

Honestly, if the only next step is that everyone gets a scream at airline executives, I'd feel okay with that. And that's the news. One more thing. There's been a lot of discourse out there about where Democrats went wrong and why they lost the White House. And a big part of that conversation is how the party lost the support of a lot of working class voters while Trump gained ground. This wasn't a surprise to everyone. Independent Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders put out a fiery statement last month about how the Democratic Party has, quote, abandoned the working class. Here's the thing. President Biden has left his mark as one of, if not the most pro union president the country has ever seen. Over the past four years, he supported unionization efforts nationwide. He became the first sitting president to join a picket line when he stood with the United Auto Workers union last year. He passed protections for labor organizers. He expanded who was eligible for overtime pay. The list goes on. But it wasn't good enough. A handful of major unions like the Teamsters and the International association of Firefighters refused to endorse either party's candidate for office this year, despite having gone for Biden. In 2020, Trump walked away with higher support from the working class than he did in 2016. To understand the shift to the right, I called up longtime labor reporter and friend of the show, Max Alvarez. Max, welcome back to what a Day.

[Max Alvarez]

Thank you so much for having me. It's an honor to be back.

[Jane Costen]

So before we get into it, when we say things like the working class and union voters. Who are we talking about? Because whenever we get in these conversations where people say working class, it always is like you didn't go to college, but you own a Toyota dealership. I don't think that's what we're talking about.

[Max Alvarez]

My career in media in many ways started trying to answer this question after the first time Trump was elected and everyone was talking about his working class support, particularly the white working class. What I have been doing, what I've committed my life to, is interviewing working class folks across industries, across states. And what I can tell you is that the vast majority of people in this country are what I would consider to be working class. That is, they work for a wage to make a living. And I think that includes most of us, even the people who we have termed middle class for so long. If you work for a living, you're part of the working class. It doesn't mean you're part of a union, because in this country, about 10% of workers in this country are part of a union. We're talking, yeah, like people who are making 20,000 a year, 30,000 a year, even people who are making up to 100 or over 100,000 a year. None of us are feeling economically secure in those positions at least. Sure as heck not as secure as the people in the upper 1%.

[Jane Costen]

We've been talking on the show recently about deliverism, this idea that if you deliver for voters, they will vote for you. And how that didn't really work out for Democrats this year. On paper, President Biden did do a ton for workers and unions. But in your view, where did Biden and correspondingly Harris fall short?

[Max Alvarez]

The answer is not just, you know, what Biden or Harris did or didn't do. Like this crisis has been building over my whole lifetime, it's just taken this long for this many people to be feeling it all at once. Because what the majority of Americans have experienced since a Republican named Ronald Reagan first promised to, quote, make America great again in 1980 is four decades of deregulation, public disinvestment, privatization, the decline of organized labor, power. More of our lives spent working for stagnant wages while costs of living rise and good paying jobs are replaced by low paying non union jobs or gig jobs. The long term destruction of industries across the economy that are remade to produce short term profits for Wall street shareholders. More war made less visible, more surveillance, more prisons, more police, endless violence perpetrated abroad in the name of freedom and democracy while working people's freedoms and democratic Rights are stripped here at home. This is what has been happening in this country for 40 years nonstop. Biden's policies were good, but like, they're just the beginning of rolling back a decades long onslaught. A class war that has been going on since you and I were even born.

[Jane Costen]

I want to get into that a little bit because a lot of workers saw that, responded to that by voting for Donald Trump, who wants to continue deregulation, who has stacked his administration with some of the richest people to ever live, whose main goal is to become even richer. But what about Trump spoke to these workers who are responding to what you're saying.

[Max Alvarez]

One of the ways that Trump was able to be, you know, effective and MAGA has managed to dominate our political scene right now is because they have done what the bosses always do. Trump found a target for people's existing anger. Democrats did not. Right. Trump is filling a vacuum that has been left by both parties over the course of our lifetime. Most working people identify as. Neither of these parties has anything for me because my life has been getting harder over the course of like Democrat and Republican administrations. And in the absence of a forceful, pro working class, pluralistic, multicultural like message, a populist message like you saw in Bernie Sanders, if you don't have someone on the Democratic side really making that case, the floor is wide open for a grifter like Trump to just say the right things and appear genuine and appeal to working people because he's saying it, not because he's going to do any of it. It's more of a testament of how vacuous our political discourse has become that no other challenger to the mantle of populism could even counter what Trump was saying, regardless of how obviously false and misleading it was.

[Jane Costen]

Something else I'm interested in your thoughts on is, you know, I'm thinking about what, what can the Democratic Party do to live up to the idea that they're the party of the working class? And so much of this is actually about a cultural question because you had President Biden being so focused on unions, but you also have people who are like, yes, I'm a union member, but I'm also very culturally conservative. I'm worried about my paycheck, but I am also worried about these culture war issues that Trump is like, I am more than happy to talk about this nonstop. So how does the Democratic Party respond when they can do all of these actions on behalf of working class people, but Republicans can say, yeah, but we're standing up against those blue hairs working at Starbucks who want to unionize or we're standing up to those evil teachers unions or something like that. Like how do you get around that cultural question?

[Max Alvarez]

Culture imprints, you know, on our memories. I grew up in the 90s and early aughts. We were non union first generation immigrant family who believed all the Reagan esque promises about America being the land of opportunity. We lost everything in the recession. I remember sitting on our couch in the home we would eventually lose. Watching mainstream media talk about how the economy was back and how things were great. Like that made us feel so small and it made us feel like we, we were not part of that recovery because there was something wrong with us. Right. A lot of the times people will have sort of like cultural markers that are sort of timestamps and they are the things that people will point to as examples of, see things are getting worse, look at the culture, right? Or like they'll hearken nostalgically back to like cultures gone past because it was a time when they recall feeling more whole and more secure. The sad irony is that Trump's policies are only going to exacerbate this cycle of exacerbated inequality. But he's got a continual scapegoat to blame whenever people notice that their lives aren't getting better, even though millions of families have been broken up because of his mass deportations.

[Jane Costen]

Max, this has been so helpful. Thank you so much for being here.

[Max Alvarez]

Thank you so much for having me.

[Jane Costen]

That was my conversation with labor reporter Max Alvarez. Before we go. The election results have sparked plenty of conversations, and the latest episode of Hysteria is diving into the biggest ones. Erin and Alyssa are joined by editor at large at the 19th news, Aaron Haines, to break down how racism and misogyny paved the way for Trump's win. And if you can't look away from Trump's problematic cabinet picks, they're breaking down the latest on disgraced Secretary of Defense nominee Pete Hegseth. Tune into Hysteria today wherever you get your podcasts. That's all for today. If you like the show, make sure you subscribe, leave a review. Remember that your Spotify rep doesn't reflect anything about your value as a person, even if it's just Pink Pony Club over and over and over again. And tell your friends to listen. And if you're into reading and not just about how, honestly, the only weird form of musical taste are the people who say they don't like music. Because I don't get that, like, what do you do all day like me? What a day is also a nightly newsletter. Check it out and [e-mail] subscribe I'm Jane Costen and personally my musical taste is perfect. What a Day is a production of Crooked Media. It's recorded and mixed by Desmond Taylor. Our Associate producer is Raven Yamamoto. Our producer is Michelle Eloy. We had production help today from Tyler Hill, Johanna Case, Joseph Dutra, Greg Walters and Julia Clare. Our Senior Producer is Erica Morrison and our Executive Producer is Adrian Hill. Our theme music is by Colin Gilliard and Kashaka.

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