Trump's Jan 6 Pardons Re-Energize Far-Right Groups

Summary

What A Day: Trump's Jan 6 Pardons Re-Energize Far-Right Groups – January 23, 2025

In this compelling episode of What A Day, host Jane Coaston delves into the ramifications of former President Donald Trump's unprecedented pardons of nearly 1,600 individuals implicated in the January 6, 2021, Capitol insurrection. The episode meticulously examines how these pardons have reignited and reshaped far-right extremist groups in the United States, drawing insights from expert Tess Owen, a freelance reporter specializing in extremism and politics.

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1. Trump's Mass Pardons and Commutations

The episode opens with Jane Coaston detailing President Trump's sweeping executive action, which granted full, unconditional pardons to approximately 1,600 supporters convicted for their roles in the January 6 Capitol breach. Additionally, 14 individuals received commutations of their sentences, effectively reducing their prison terms without pardoning their actions.

Key Points:

• Scope of Pardons: Nearly 1,600 pardoned individuals, with 14 others receiving sentence commutations.
• Affected Groups: Predominantly members of far-right militia organizations, specifically the Oath Keepers and the Proud Boys.
• Notable Figures:
  • Stuart Rhodes (Founder of the Oath Keepers): Originally sentenced to 18 years, Rhodes had his sentence commuted and publicly thanked Trump, propagating unfounded narratives about the Capitol events. At [00:02], Rhodes is quoted as stating, “Most people that went inside, they walked in through doors already opened by somebody else.”
  • Enrique Tarrio (Chairman of the Proud Boys): Facing a 22-year sentence, Tarrio received a full pardon and publicly appeared alongside conspiracy theorist Alex Jones, expressing no remorse. At [02:13], he remarked, “I'm happy that the president's focusing not on retribution and focusing on success, but I will tell you that I'm not going to play by those rules.”

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2. Immediate Reactions from Far-Right Groups

The pardons have been met with elation within far-right circles, reinforcing their narratives of victimization and justifying further radicalization.

Notable Reactions:

• Jacob Anthony Chansley (QAnon Shaman): Upon his release, Chansley tweeted his intention to “buy some motherfucking guns” ([02:30]), signaling a potential escalation in armed extremism.
• Congresswoman Lauren Boebert: Expressed support for the pardoned rioters, stating her willingness to offer them “a guided tour in the Capitol tonight” ([03:07]).

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3. Expert Insights with Tess Owen

Jane Coaston interviews Tess Owen, a freelance reporter focused on extremism and politics, to unpack the broader implications of Trump's pardons on far-right movements and political stability.

Discussion Highlights:

• Legal Background of Convicted Individuals ([03:55]):

  • Seditious Conspiracy Charges: Several Proud Boys leaders, including Enrique Tarrio and Ethan Nordean, were convicted under these serious charges.
  • Assault on Police: Many rioters faced charges related to prolonged assaults on Capitol Police using various improvised weapons.

• Impact on Extremist Movements ([05:01]):

  • Vindication and Desire for Retribution: Owen explains that many within the movement feel vindicated by the pardons and are now seeking revenge against perceived adversaries, including FBI agents and prosecutors.
  • **"We want to go after the people who did this to us" ([05:01]).

• Current State of Far-Right Groups ([07:34]):

  • Proud Boys: Transitioning from large-scale public demonstrations to smaller, hyperlocal activism. Leadership vacuums and internal conflicts have slightly fragmented the group.
  • Oath Keepers: With key leaders like Tarrio pardoned and reintegrated, their cohesiveness has diminished, but the overall movement remains a significant concern.

• National Sentiment and Public Reaction ([06:58]):

  • Numbness and Resignation: Owen notes a general sense of apathy or resignation among the broader public regarding the pardons, citing diminished outrage compared to earlier reactions during Trump’s presidency.
  • **"People are a bit numb" ([06:58]).

• Future Threats and Radicalization ([10:17]):

  • Increased Entrenchment: Incarcerated individuals have become more radicalized during their imprisonment, deepening anti-government sentiments.
  • Potential for Further Violence: The release of these individuals may lead to heightened risks of future political violence.

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4. Broader Political and Social Implications

Beyond the immediate reactions from extremist groups, the episode touches upon broader political maneuvers and their potential impacts on American society.

Key Issues Discussed:

• Refugee Policy Overhauls ([16:48]):

  • Executive Order Suspension: Trump’s suspension of the U.S. refugee admissions program has left over 1,600 Afghans stranded, reversing Biden administration efforts to resettle nearly 200,000 Afghans.
  • Impact on Vulnerable Populations: Families of U.S. service members, Afghan military personnel, and others at risk are particularly affected.

• Legislative Actions on Immigration ([19:03]):

  • Lake and Riley Act: House Republicans passed legislation mandating ICE to detain undocumented immigrants charged with specific non-violent crimes. Despite bipartisan support, critics label it an unfunded mandate with significant financial implications.
  • Marjorie Taylor Greene’s Support: Greene fervently backed the bill, emphasizing a hardline stance against illegal immigration ([19:03]).

• Suppression of Health Communications ([19:21]):

  • Blockade of Federal Health Agencies: The Trump administration has restricted external communications from agencies like the CDC and FDA, potentially hindering public awareness of health risks such as bird flu ([19:21]).
  • Withdrawal from WHO: An executive order withdrawing the U.S. from the World Health Organization further isolates the country from global health collaborations.

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5. Reflections and Future Outlook

The episode concludes with reflections on the enduring impact of January 6 and the path forward for both extremist groups and the broader American political landscape.

Final Thoughts:

• Control Over January 6 Narrative ([11:25]): There has been a relentless battle over the true narrative of the Capitol riot, with Trump's pardons reinforcing a version that portrays the rioters as unjustly persecuted heroes standing up against a corrupt establishment.
• Ongoing Threat to Democracy: The normalization and support of pardoned extremists pose significant threats to democratic institutions and societal stability.

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Conclusion

Jane Coaston's thorough analysis in this episode of What A Day underscores the profound and multifaceted repercussions of Trump's pardons on America's political and social fabric. By granting clemency to a vast number of January 6 participants, Trump has not only emboldened far-right factions but also complicated the nation's efforts to heal and prevent future extremism. The episode serves as a crucial exploration of how executive actions can have long-lasting and potentially destabilizing effects on democratic institutions and societal norms.

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Notable Quotes:

• Stuart Rhodes ([00:02]): “Most people that went inside, they walked in through doors already opened by somebody else.”
• Enrique Tarrio ([02:13]): “I'm happy that the president's focusing not on retribution and focusing on success, but I will tell you that I'm not going to play by those rules.”
• Jacob Anthony Chansley ([02:30]): “Now I am gonna buy some motherfucking guns.”
• Marjorie Taylor Greene ([19:03]): “I certainly hope we do open as many prisons as possible to round up as many illegal aliens that have invaded our country and those that are breaking our laws, killing our citizens, women and children and causing complete havoc across our great land.”

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This summary encapsulates the key discussions and insights from the episode, providing a comprehensive overview for those who haven't listened. For a deeper dive into each topic, tuning into the full episode of What A Day is highly recommended.

Transcript

[Jane Coaston]

It's Thursday, January 23rd. I'm Jane Coaston and this is Water Day, the show wishing a happy snow day to everyone in the American south experiencing once in a lifetime snowfall. We know you aren't used to it and it's probably scary, but sometimes frozen water falls from the sky. It's crazy. On today's show, President Donald Trump issues an executive order blocking the receptacle settlement of refugees in the U.S. including thousands of Afghans. And the House passed its first piece of legislation under the new administration. Let's get into it. It's been a couple of days since President Donald Trump granted clemency to all of his nearly 1,600 supporters who faced charges for storming the Capitol on January 6, 2021. Most of them received full, complete and unconditional pardons for their actions that day. The 14 people who didn't get pardons instead had their sentences commuted. They were all members of far right militia groups, either the Oath Keepers or the Proud Boys. As you'd expect, many of these people were positively giddy about the fact that they were getting out of prison. And giddy in a way that's terrifying to pretty much anyone who's not steeped in the alternative MAGA universe version of what actually happened that day. Stuart Rhodes, the founder of the Oath Keepers, was sentenced to 18 years in prison. Trump commuted his sentence after his release Tuesday. He thanked Trump and repeated lies about what happened at the Capitol that day. Most people that went inside, they walked in through doors already opened by somebody else.

[David Hogg]

They were not told they were trespassing.

[Jane Coaston]

They just, in fact, some cops waved them in.

[David Hogg]

And so you had, basically, it's entrapment.

[Jane Coaston]

So we're all crazy and didn't see what we saw. Got it. And what did Rhodes do on his first full day of freedom Wednesday? I am not making this up. The man went to the Capitol to advocate for a pardon for another member of the Oath Keepers. In another case, Wild Enrique Tarrio, the self proclaimed chairman of the Proud boys, was facing 22 years in prison. He got a full pardon, so he walked free Tuesday. And of course, he spent his first few hours out of prison giving an interview to none other than Mr. Conspiracy Theorist himself, Alex Jones. Tarrio expressed all of the contrition you'd expect from him, which is none.

[Tess Owen]

I'm happy that the president's focusing not on retribution and focusing on success, but I will tell you that I'm not going to play by those rules. The people who did this, they need to feel the heat. They need to be put behind bars and they need to be prosecuted.

[Jane Coaston]

And Jacob Anthony Chansley, the so called QAnon Shaman who was seen that day standing in then Vice President Mike Pence's chair, the guy who left him a note that said, it's only a matter of time. Justice is coming. Yeah, he got a pardon. How does he plan to celebrate? Well, he tweeted Tuesday, and I quote, now I am gonna buy some motherfucking guns. And as if all of this weren't horrifying enough, CNN reported Wednesday that the Trump administration is considering whether to invite some of the people he pardoned Monday to the White House. And Colorado Republican Congresswoman Lauren Boebert says she wants to spend some quality time with the rioters.

[Marjorie Taylor Greene]

I'll be the first member of Congress to offer them a guided tour in the Capitol tonight.

[Jane Coaston]

I think I speak for everyone listening right now when I say, what in the actual fuck? So to talk about what Trump's actions this week mean for right wing extremist groups and the threat of political violence in America under Trump, I spoke with Tess Owen. She's a freelance reporter covering extremism and politics. Tess, welcome to what a day.

[Marjorie Taylor Greene]

Thank you so much for having me.

[Jane Coaston]

So Donald Trump and a ton of Republicans would have us all believe that the people who were charged in connection with the January 6th insurrection were just peaceful tourists, one wearing a weird hat, just hanging out, and that the Justice Department was overzealous in charging them. But can you remind us what some of the people were charged with and sent to prison for?

[Marjorie Taylor Greene]

Sure. So we have probably the most serious charges of the bunch, the seditious conspiracy charges. Some of the Proud Boy leaders copped charges for that. Enrique Tarrio, the chairman of the Proud Boys, he was sentenced to 22 years. We had Joe Biggs, Zachary Rell, Ethan Nordean, who are all prominent leaders within the Proud Boys movement. They all got between 15 and 19 years. We had Stuart Rhodes, founder of the Oath Keepers, also got seditious conspiracy charges. And then we had a bunch of people who were getting charges for assault on police. People who attacked Capitol Police for hours on end using a variety of improvised objects. We had Lonnie Kaufman, who parked a truck near the Capitol that was loaded with Molotov cocktails and various weapons. The list, the list goes on.

[Jane Coaston]

How have these pardons been received in the world of far right extremist groups? Because I know that some of these people are talking about, we want retribution. We want the people who prosecuted us, even the juries that convicted us, to now go to jail.

[Marjorie Taylor Greene]

I think we're kind of hearing the reactions bit by bit. I think some of these guys I'd spoken to even a couple months ago, I think that they would have been pretty surpr that they got a part in. And yeah, you're right, the response within the movement and from those we're hearing from already has been, first of all, vindication. And second of all, now we want revenge. We want to go after the people who did this to us. We want to go after the FBI agents, we want to go after the so called deep state, the prosecutors, and make sure that they are behind bars. So Trump has a very loyal army as commanding now. And yeah, we'll see, we'll see what happens next.

[Jane Coaston]

And what do you think the reaction has been more broadly? Because the vibe seems to be one of resignation more than anything else. I know that, you know, there's not very many ways to fight a presidential pardon, but is that your sense, too, that, like, some of the outrage that we may have seen the first time around that Trump was president just isn't there even around something like this? Like you have a host of, you know, conservative outlets, the Wall Street Journal saying that this is bad, but also like, a lot of people just kind of being like, what can you do?

[Marjorie Taylor Greene]

I mean, I think people are a bit numb even. I personally have covered this stuff, the extremism movement, for eight years now, and even I was sort of surprised, but still a bit numb by the scale of the pardons that happened. And, you know, on Inauguration Day, we saw probably the biggest mobilization of proud boys since January 6th marching in Washington, D.C. and they were chanting, you know, whose streets? Our streets. And they were getting fist bumps by people in the crowd. And there wasn't really like a robust opposition counter protest like we would have seen maybe a few years ago. So I think there is a sense of resignation, like you said, or a bit of numbness going on as well.

[Jane Coaston]

It's funny to say this, but a lot has happened since January 6, and a lot has happened to people within these organizations. Um, it kind of reminds me a little bit of Unite the Right, the gathering that took place in 2017, where you saw these organizations at, you know, White Pride, white power organizations at the peak of their power, and then they just fell apart in a lot of different ways. So what has happened to these groups since January 6th? What has happened to the Proud Boys and the Oath Keepers? And what do you think is next for these organizations now that they've been freed from jail and by and large had their crimes, forgiveness.

[Marjorie Taylor Greene]

So with the Proud Boys, I mean, in the run up to January 6th, their MO was kind of these large scale mobilizations in cities where they would show up in, you know, decked out in yellow and black and they would come drinking, you know, reeking of beer and looking for fights with local leftists. And there were these spectacles, right? And then after January 6, we saw pivot away from that kind of mobilizations into much smaller hyperlocal activism. So we saw kind of would pop up at a drag brunch somewhere or at the school board meeting, and we saw them forging alliances with local Christian nationalist groups. We also saw, I mean, with Enrique Tarrio, the group's chairman, that sort of left the movement leaderless and the sovereign chapter was dissolved. And there was sort of some infighting that's happened as well within that group. And so it's not as cohesive as it once was. And then, you know, we didn't really see the same kind of show of force for Trump in 2024 as we did in 2020. And so that was maybe leading to speculation that, oh, is the group done? Is it on its last legs? Certainly the demonstration on Inauguration Day, that was intended to send us a message of like, you know, we're back. But, you know, as Enrique Tarrio, you know, he is now free. He has been given a full pardon. He was on Alex Jones hours after he was released and said it would be a mistake to call him the Ex. He is still very much involved with the Proud Boys. But I think, you know, the group that he's coming back to is not the one that he left. So I think it, you know, they're full of bluster, those guys. They would like us to think that they are, you know, strong and very active, but that's simply not always the case. But they're also just one element, one piece of this much larger movement. And I think what we saw with January 6th was that you don't need to be a card carrying member of an extremist group to engage in violence on behalf of Donald Trump or on behalf of the MAGA movement. And the kind of mainstreaming of anti government violence is something that we've seen a lot in the last few years.

[Jane Coaston]

Something I keep thinking about, though, and we've already actually seen it. One of the January 6th defendants who had been charged with felony assault was arrested again on federal gun charges. And I think that, you know, a lot of people involved in January 6 had no previous criminal backgrounds and a Lot of people did. So do you see a situation where this backfires on Trump? Because a host of the people with the most serious charges are people who are likely probably involved in something that could result in further charges. Do you see that being a problem for Trump?

[Marjorie Taylor Greene]

I think one question that came up or one that I've been thinking about a lot was whether, you know, this movement has radicalized in the last few years, especially for those who are in prison. We know prison radicalization is a big problem. And I've written about the so called Patriot wing in the D.C. jail, which was the unit inside the jail that was being used to sequester pretrial detainees. January Sixers away from the general population. And they formed a very tight knit community there. And they were supported, had enormous amounts of support from the outside that really reinforced the same beliefs and anti government sentiments and deepened the anti government beliefs that brought them to the Capitol in the first place. And so all these people who stormed the Capitol are now kind of even more entrenched in that belief system.

[Jane Coaston]

And what does this mean for the national story around January 6th and the way we understand what happened that day? I mean, I know what happened and, you know what happened, but former President Biden issued preemptive pardons from members of the congressional committee that investigated the insurrection. And now the people who perpetrated it have been freed. And despite what I remember, and you remember, it feels murky.

[Marjorie Taylor Greene]

Yeah, I mean, I think that the last few years there's really been a kind of fight for the story or for the control over the narrative of January 6th. Well, first of all, there was widespread condemnation of January 6th across both, both sides of the aisle. And then we saw attempts to, you know, oh, there were bad actors involved. There were, it was antifa, you know, antifa super soldiers were in the crowd and they instigated it. And then it was the FBI. That narrative has kind of held that, you know, FBI agents, this has been debunked, but were kind of among the crowd and they goaded MAGA supporters into committing violence. And then there was the hostages narrative that these, that these people are hostages of a corrupt and tyrannical Biden administration is hell bent on prosecuting and jailing his political opponents. And that January 6th was in some ways a noble cause. And this is the narrative that comes through now with the pardons, that these people were standing up for a just cause and they were prosecuted unfairly by a tyrannical regime. You know, heavy quotes.

[Jane Coaston]

Tess, thank you so much for joining me. This has been super helpful.

[Marjorie Taylor Greene]

Thank you so much for having me. I'm a big fan.

[Jane Coaston]

That was my conversation with Tess Owen, freelance reporter covering extremism and politics. We'll link to her work in our show Notes. We'll get to more of the news in a moment, but if you like the show, make sure to subscribe. Leave a five star review on Apple Podcasts, watch us on YouTube and share with your friends. More to come after some ads what a day is brought to you by Lumen Are you ready to jumpstart your health in 2025? Lumen can help. Lumen is the world's first handheld metabolic coach. It's a device that measures your metabolism through your breath, and on the app, it lets you know if you're burning fat or carbs and gives you tailored guidance to improve your nutrition, your workouts, your sleep, even your stress management. All you have to do is breathe into your Lumen first thing in the morning and you'll know what's going on with your metabolism, whether you're burning mostly fats or carbs. Then Lumen gives you a personalized nutrition plan for that day based on your measurements. You can also breathe into it before and after workouts and meals so you know exactly what's going on in your body in real time. And Lumen will give you tips to keep you on top of your health game. Your metabolism is your body's engine. It's how your body turns the food you eat into fuel that keeps you going. Metabolism is also at the center of pretty much everything your body does, so optimal metabolic health translates to a bunch of benefits. Easier weight management, improved energy levels, better fitness results. So if you want to keep the weight off for good this year, go to Lumen Me WAD to get 20% off your lumen that is L U M E N ME WAD for 20% off your purchase. Thank you Lumen for sponsoring this episode.

[Tess Owen]

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[Jane Coaston]

What's your New Year's resolution to improve your relationships? Find a better job. We often make these commitments without first exploring a deeper question. How do I define a life well lived? Hidden Brain will do just that with our new January series, Wellness 2.0. Start the new year on a strong foot. Listen and subscribe to Hidden Brain wherever you get your podcasts. Here's what else we're following today.

[Marjorie Taylor Greene]

Header Lines.

[Tess Owen]

As President Trump has said, America's decline is over and the new golden age has begun.

[Jane Coaston]

I hate this. House Speaker Mike Johnson gave his first press conference since Trump's inauguration on Wednesday. He said he wouldn't second guess Trump's decision to pardon the January 6 rioters. Instead, he slammed former President Biden's decision to issue preemptive pardons for members of his family, members of Congress who investigated the insurrection, and others.

[Tess Owen]

To us, it is disgusting. To us, it probably proves the point, the suspicion that, you know, they call it the Biden crime family. If they weren't the crime family, why do they need pardons? Right?

[Jane Coaston]

Why do they need pardons, indeed. In fact, Johnson threw more kerosene on the whole let's rewrite the story around what happened on January 6th. Political fire. In a press release, his office announced plans to form a new House committee to continue Republicans work, quote, exposing the false narratives peddled by the politically motivated January 6th select committee. True is false. False is true. Maybe it's all an attempt to distract from the fact that Republicans haven't hammered out a legislative plan to pass Trump's agenda of tax cuts and lifting the debt ceiling and making life hell for migrants, while also dramatically cutting government spending. But Johnson tried to spin it as best he could.

[Tess Owen]

This is exactly how the Founding Fathers anticipated the process would work. They wanted people, legislators with good faith, citizen legislators, to come to Washington, D.C. and bring their principles and bring their preferences and come to the table and work it out amongst themselves. It is a healthy thing. We're excited about it and it's going very, very well. So stay tuned for the details. They're coming.

[Jane Coaston]

Sure. I'm sure James Madison would be thrilled. We for one, wouldn't mind if Republicans just kept fighting about Trump's legislative agenda. That's a small win for us. The State Department suspended the US Refugee admissions program late Tuesday following an executive order by President Donald Trump. Sean Vandiver, the head of a volunteer group called Afghan Evac, told Wadeh the program is not only a legal immigration pathway, but is also extremely well vetted.

[David Hogg]

So the United States has long been a beacon of hope for immigrants or used to be. And this program is how many immigrants get here.

[Jane Coaston]

The suspension paused all refugee flights into the US leaving thousands of refugees stranded worldwide, including more than 1,600 Afghans. There's still a separate immigration pathway for Afghans who worked for the US Government or military, but Vandiver said that program is harder to access.

[David Hogg]

The types of people that are impacted by this suspension are family of US Service members, are judges and lawyers and prosecutors who put the Taliban away. They're women pilots who served in the Afghan military. Other people that served in the Afghan military children who were separated from their families and families who were separated from their children.

[Jane Coaston]

Trump also reduced refugee admissions in his first term. Vandiver said the Biden administration worked to rebuild the program. According to the State Department, nearly 200,000 Afghans were resettled in the US under former President Biden. Vandiver said his organization is working on communicating with the new administration because this isn't a partisan issue, it's an American issue. He said, quote, president Trump loves to negotiate. We can't wait to negotiate on this. The Trump administration's promised crackdown on immigration is continuing. Full steam ahead. The Republican led House passed an immigration detention measure with bipartisan support on Wednesday. The Lake and Riley act is expected to be the first bill Trump signs into law. The legislation is named after a nursing school student who was murdered by an undocumented immigrant in Georgia last year. The act would require ICE to take custody of and detain undocumented immigrants charged, arrested or convicted of committing acts of, quote, burglary, theft, larceny or shoplifting. Georgia Republican Representative Marjorie Taylor Greene was full throated in her support of the bill during a floor speech Wednesday.

[Marjorie Taylor Greene]

I certainly hope we do open as many prisons as possible to round up as many illegal aliens that have invaded our country and those that are breaking our laws, killing our citizens, women and children and causing complete havoc across our great land.

[Jane Coaston]

That's some bullshit. More than 40 House Dems joined Republicans in passing the bill, especially those in competitive districts. Other Democrats have called the legislation an unfunded mandate that will cost billions. According to an internal government memo obtained by multiple news outlets, Trump is considering deploying as many as 10,000 soldiers to the southern border. The Trump administration issued guidance on Tuesday that bars federal health agencies from using external communications. The Health and Human Services Department, the Food and Drug administration and the U.S. centers for Disease Control and Prevention all fall into this category. They've been instructed to stop sending out any alerts, reports, press releases basically anything that keeps us informed about risks to our health. For example, the CDC was set to release multiple reports about bird flu cases in the US this week. It's unclear if those will be released now. The new guidance also requires agency employees to get approval from a presidential appointee before releasing any external communications materials. And it bars employees from making public appearances or speeches. Acting Health Secretary Dr. Dorothy Fink said the directive will last until February 1. All of this, paired with the fact that Trump signed another executive order this week pulling the US out of the World Health Organization, does not bode well. And that's the news. One more thing, I'll say it part of the problem we're facing dealing with all of this is that Democratic Party leadership is too dang old. And we've talked on the show a bunch about the fight to elect younger leaders in the Democratic Party and how those efforts have been squashed. It's an important conversation that we have to keep up these next four years while we wait for another shot at the White House. Heck, the next two years, because 2026 is just a few months away. And it's one that has been a focus for gun control activist David Hogg. He's 24 and best known for being a co founder of March for Our Lives, a nonprofit founded by students who survived the 2018 Parkland High School shooting. And now he's running to be vice chair of the Democratic National Committee. He's already scored some major endorsements from progressives, notably from Senator Chris Murphy of Connecticut and Minnesota Governor and former vice presidential candidate Tim Walz. So I called him up to ask about how the Democrats can better listen to and speak to the needs of young voters. David, welcome to what a day.

[David Hogg]

Thank you. Thank you for having me.

[Jane Coaston]

Your own work as an activist began during the first Trump administration after the Parkland shooting in 2018. What are you worried about over the next four years when it comes to guns and how guns will impact public.

[David Hogg]

Safety in the U.S. i mean, I'm extremely worried. I'm more worried than anything because we finally, under the, under President Biden, we created the Office of Gun Violence Prevention. And this office was absolutely instrumental in seeing the double digit reduction in gun homicides that we've seen since President Biden was elected. It made sure that the billions of dollars that had been allocated to fight gun violence across the federal government and other money that had been allocated for other issues that nonetheless could help fight gun violence was being spent properly. And it's really horrifying to see that obviously that office is gone now under President Trump. But we have done a lot of the work at the state level to help create different offices of gun violence prevention in states around the country.

[Jane Coaston]

You've talked a lot about why Democrats lost a lot of young voters to Trump. Young men in particular. You told ABC News that you want to, quote, meet these men where they're at. But what does that actually look like? What concrete actions would you take as DNC Vice Chair to win back young men as a whole? How is it different from what Democrats have been doing in the past?

[David Hogg]

I think a lot of the problem that we have with our party isn't necessarily our policies. Frankly, we see them pass by wide margins, including states like Florida. But to me, the problem is our brand. I think that one of the biggest obstacles that we have isn't so much that young men necessarily disagree with our policies. I think that, you know, they agree, broadly speaking, with obviously fighting gun violence, with fighting climate change. I think what it's a reaction to in particular is them feeling like they're just judged constantly. And if we can build a culture, I think within our party where we bring people in and educate them and listen to them, because I think what's happening is that they would rather be around somebody that they don't completely agree with, but doesn't judge them, or at least they don't feel judged by, than somebody who they do agree with largely, but feel like they have to walk on eggshells around. We need to realize too that Gen Z is not a monolith. I think we need somebody in the room that understands that. And what concerns me is, you know, when I was at the executive committee meeting for the dnc, I was there and I was listening to Molly, our pollster talk about why we lost the election. And the first thing that Molly brought up was the fact that 18 to 29 year olds, there was a dramatic shift to the right. And when I looked around the room, I didn't see anybody under 30 that was there. And it seems to me like our party thinks like we can just consult our way out of these problems. We just throw enough money at it that's gonna solve it. We need to be talking to the non political influencers and crafting a message that doesn't even need to be put there by us or forced to be made there or paid where we don't need to pay somebody to say it for us because it's compelling enough that they're sharing it. After Parkland, we saw just that. The reason we were Able to have so much of an, of an, of an impact like we were to build the largest student protest in American history isn't because we were like, you know what we need to do, guys? We gotta be on Discord. We gotta be on Fortnite. No, it's because we knew how to talk to young people and we built a message that resonated with them.

[Jane Coaston]

Dems won't get another shot at the presidency until 2028. There are tons of elections at the national and local level that they can win in the meantime, because a lot of people don't like what's going on right now, there is time to rethink how this party messages to voters and what the party's message is. What do you think we need to do over the next two years to get out of this mess?

[David Hogg]

Listen to people. It's really not complicated. I think during this election, voters effectively told us two things more than anything else. They told us that prices were too high and Joe Biden was too old. And what we told them, in effect with $2 billion behind it, was that, no, they're not, and no, he's not. And after we spent eight years saying, Donald Trump is the greatest threat to American democracy ever, you need to give me $5 right now to help prevent that. When he was elected, you know what it sounded like? A lot of the response was to me was effectively, well, guys, we tried our best. We'll see you again in four years. That's not what accountability looks like to me. That's not what leadership looks like to me. What it looks like is talking about what we did wrong and what we're going to do differently this time. In my own way of talking about that accountability. What I'm going to say here to you is that during this election, I made mistakes too. When I met with President Biden and he asked me how to get young voters, I was one on one with him in the Oval Office. And at that point in our party, we were not in a place where we could speak openly about whether or not he should continue running or doing a second term because we didn't want it to end. He was an amazing president. What I wish I told him was that he needed to drop out in order to get those young people. I obviously would have been kicked out of that meeting and never welcomed back, to be clear. But at least I would have told him what he needed to hear. But I didn't do that, and I wish I had. And it's something that I am never going to forget and something I will, I will think about pretty much every day that I continue to do this work. Because ultimately the most important thing that our party needs to do is win in order to combat gun violence and save lives. That is the top priority.

[Jane Coaston]

David, thank you so much for joining me.

[David Hogg]

Absolutely.

[Jane Coaston]

That was my conversation with DNC Vice Chair candidate David Hogg. Before we go in the first few days of Trump's second term, shock tactics and sweeping executive orders are taking center stage. On the latest episode of Assembly Required, Stacey Abrams is joined by Strict Scrutiny's Melissa Murray to dissect the impact of these moves from renaming Denali to ending birthright citizenship. They explore the threat to the balance of power, why we should be concerned about the new bro ligarchy that stood behind Trump at his inauguration, and how we can resist and fight back to safeguard our democracy. Listen to this episode of Assembly Required. Now, new episodes drop every Thursday, wherever you get your podcasts. That's all for today. If you like the show, make sure you subscribe, leave a review, maybe find a new hobby that you enjoy because it's going to be a long flavor. Four years, guys. And tell your friends to listen. And if you're into reading and not just about how finding hobbies can also be a helpful way to find community, which matters a lot right now. Like me, what a Day is also a nightly newsletter. Check it out and [e-mail] subscribe I'm Jane Coston, and really what I'm saying is go outside and do something you like. Water Day is a production of Crooked Media. It's recorded and mixed by Desmond Taylor. Our associate producers are Raven Yamamoto and Emily Foer. Our producer is Michelle Aloy. We had production help today from Johanna Case, Joseph Dutra, Greg Walters, and Julia Claire. Our senior producer is Erica Morrison and our executive producer is Adrienne Hill. Our theme music is by Colin Gilliard and Kashaka. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America. East Foreign.

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