Trump’s Law-Bending Attack on Migrants

Summary

Podcast Summary: What A Day – “Trump’s Law-Bending Attack on Migrants”

Episode Information:

• Title: Trump’s Law-Bending Attack on Migrants
• Host: Jane Coaston, Crooked Media
• Release Date: March 18, 2025

---

Introduction

In this episode of What A Day, host Jane Coaston delves into the Trump administration's aggressive immigration policies, focusing on the controversial use of the Alien Enemies Act to deport migrants. The discussion highlights the legal and ethical implications of these actions, featuring expert insights from Nico Perino, Executive Vice President of the Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression (FIRE).

---

Trump Administration's Deportation Policies

Doubling Down on Deportations The episode opens with Jane Coaston outlining the recent surge in deportations under President Donald Trump's directive. Over 250 migrants, predominantly Venezuelans, were deported, with about half removed under the Alien Enemies Act, a law dating back centuries.

• Jane Coaston [00:02]: "President Donald Trump dismantles Voice of America and the administration expels South Africa's ambassador to the US but first, let's start with immigration..."

Use of Wartime Law President Trump justified the use of the Alien Enemies Act by likening the situation to a state of war, emphasizing the perceived dangers of undocumented migrants.

• Donald Trump [01:14]: "At, you know who you're going after."

Jane critiques this analogy, questioning whether the administration's actions may constitute a constitutional crisis, especially in light of a federal judge's order to halt deportation flights.

Legal Challenges and Administration's Stance The White House maintains that the deportation plans occurred over international waters, thereby not violating the judge's order. However, Trump’s border czar, Tom Homan, made incendiary remarks that further complicate the legal landscape.

• Tom Homan [01:44]: "Fuck those judges. Trump for King..."

When pressed about these comments, Press Secretary Caroline Levitt dismissed concerns, asserting that the administration remains within legal bounds.

• Caroline Levitt [02:12]: "Nothing to see here, folks. Everything is totally cool and above board."

---

Case Study: Mahmoud Khalil

Background and Arrest A focal point of the episode is the detention of Mahmoud Khalil, a Columbia University student from India involved in pro-Palestine protests. Despite having a valid green card, Khalil was arrested for his activism, raising alarms about the administration's stance on free speech and immigration.

• Jane Coaston [02:19]: "The lack of recourse and due process these people are receiving is not to mention the potential violation of a judge's order. That should scare everyone..."

Expert Analysis with Nico Perino Jane engages in a detailed discussion with Nico Perino from FIRE, who provides a critical perspective on Khalil's case and the broader implications for lawful permanent residents in the U.S.

• Jane Coaston [04:17]: "Have we ever seen a case like this before where the federal government has tried to deport a permanent resident for participating in acts of dissent?"

• Caroline Levitt [05:08]: "I have talked to immigration attorneys, and they have said they haven't seen anything quite like this."

Legal Grounds and Constitutional Questions Perino explains that the administration is leveraging the Immigration and Nationality Act, which grants broad discretion to the Secretary of State to deport individuals deemed to have adverse foreign policy consequences.

• Caroline Levitt [05:55]: "This is essentially creating unbounded discretion for the Secretary of State to deport someone if they're, quote, adversely affecting foreign policy consequences for the United States."

Historical Context and First Amendment Rights The discussion references the 1919 Abrams v. United States case, highlighting how Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes' dissent played a pivotal role in shaping First Amendment protections, particularly for foreign nationals.

• Caroline Levitt [09:24]: "Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes wrote a dissent... the First Amendment started to grow into the thing it is today."

Implications for Free Speech Coaston and Perino argue that Khalil's case sets a dangerous precedent for suppressing dissent, especially when it pertains to views on foreign entities rather than the United States directly.

• Caroline Levitt [10:53]: "You can criticize America, you can criticize China, you can criticize Russia, you can criticize Israel. All of this is protected by the First Amendment."

---

Broader Implications and Additional News

Dismantling Voice of America Beyond immigration, the episode touches on Trump's efforts to dismantle Voice of America (VOA), a U.S. government-funded international broadcaster.

• Jane Coaston [17:37]: "Trump signed an executive order Friday to dismantle the U.S. agency for Global Media, the office that runs Voice of America."

Expulsion of South Africa's Ambassador The administration also expelled South Africa's ambassador, Ibrahim Rasool, labeling him a "race baiting politician."

• Jane Coaston [16:11]: "The Trump administration says South Africa's ambassador has been officially expelled from the United States."

Educational Policy Changes A brief overview is provided on Harvard University's initiative to make undergraduate tuition free for students with family incomes of $200,000 or less, aligning with similar moves by other elite institutions.

• Jane Coaston [17:37]: "Harvard has plans to make attending the school more financially realistic..."

---

Conclusion

The episode concludes by reinforcing the alarming trajectory of the Trump administration's policies, not only on immigration but also on media and international relations. Jane encourages listeners to stay informed and engaged, underscoring the importance of upholding constitutional rights and due process.

• Jane Coaston [12:40]: "We are going to make this country safe again... We're not stopping."

---

Key Takeaways

1. Alien Enemies Act Usage: The Trump administration's invocation of this outdated law to deport migrants without adequate due process raises significant legal and ethical concerns.

2. Impact on Permanent Residents: Cases like Mahmoud Khalil's highlight the precarious situation for lawful permanent residents who engage in political dissent.

3. First Amendment Implications: The administration's actions challenge established First Amendment protections, potentially undermining free speech rights.

4. Broader Undermining of Institutions: Efforts to dismantle VOA and expel foreign diplomats indicate a broader strategy to control narratives and suppress dissent.

5. Legal Battles Ahead: With over 120 cases filed against the administration, the judiciary is poised to play a crucial role in checking executive overreach.

---

Notable Quotes:

• Donald Trump [01:16]: “It's not a war. But the big question is whether the administration carried out these deportations in violation of a federal judge's order.”

• Caroline Levitt [05:55]: “This is essentially creating unbounded discretion for the Secretary of State to deport someone if they're, quote, adversely affecting foreign policy consequences for the United States.”

• Caroline Levitt [09:24]: “Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes wrote a dissent... the First Amendment started to grow into the thing it is today.”

• Jane Coaston [12:40]: “We are going to make this country safe again... We're not stopping.”

---

Final Thoughts: This episode of What A Day provides a comprehensive and critical examination of the Trump administration's aggressive immigration tactics and their far-reaching implications on constitutional rights and international relations. Through expert interviews and historical context, the discussion underscores the urgent need to safeguard due process and free speech in the face of expanding executive power.

Transcript

[Jane Coston]

It's Tuesday, March 18th. I'm Jane Coston and this is what'a the show that found out that Mercury is in retrograde until April 7, which checks out despite me not knowing what that means. On today's show, President Donald Trump dismantles Voice of America and the administration expels South Africa's ambassador to the US but first, let's start with immigration, because it's been a scary few days for a lot of people living in the US who aren't citizens, whether they're here illegally on a green card or visa or they're undocumented or you just happen to love those people very much. On Monday, the Trump administration doubled down on its decision over the weekend to deport more than 250 migrants, mostly Venezuelans. About half of them were removed under the Alien Enemies Act, a centuries old law President Donald Trump has invoked to deport suspected members of the Venezuelan gang Tren. Trump was asked about his use of the wartime law to deport migrants with little to no due process. Speaking on Air Force One Monday, the president said, this is a war. In many respects, it's more dangerous than war because, you know, in war they have uniforms, you know who you're shooting.

[Donald Trump]

At, you know who you're going after.

[Jane Coston]

So it's not a war. But the big question is whether the administration carried out these deportations in violation of a federal judge's order Saturday to turn back the flights. The White House says it didn't, that the plans were over international waters by the time the judge issued his ruling and therefore it didn't apply. Trump's border czar, Tom Homan, had the most unhinged does this mean we're in the constitutional crisis? Take on that question when he told Fox and Friends, basically, fuck those judges. Trump for King. I wake up every morning loving my job because I work for the greatest president in the history of my life. And we're going to make this country safe again. I'm proud to be a part of this administration. We're not stopping. I don't care what the judges think. I don't care what the left thinks. We're coming. But when asked about Homan's comments later at the White House press briefing, Press Secretary Caroline Levitt said, nothing to see here, folks. Everything is totally cool and above board. So I'm only asking just to be clear, for the American people, it is.

[Nico Perino]

The administration's belief that they were that.

[Jane Coston]

You feel like you are bound to comply by the judge's orders, we are.

[Nico Perino]

Complying with the Judge's orders.

[Jane Coston]

The judge who issued the order blocking the flights? Well, he had questions about that during a tense hearing Monday. He asked the government to give him more details by noon Eastern today, proving it did not violate his order, or at least a better explanation for why. They can't answer that question. But the mess over the Alien Enemies act is just one of a handful of really terrifying deportation efforts the White House has undertaken recently, including against people who were in this country with full legal documentation. A doctor from Lebanon with a valid visa was detained and turned back upon her return to the US after visiting family. The Department of Homeland Security says she attended the funeral of the former leader of the Lebanese militant group Hezbollah last month, but hasn't said whether she committed a crime or immigration violation. A Columbia University student from India who was involved in the campus protests over the war in Gaza said she fled to Canada after her student visa was abruptly revoked and immigration agents showed up at her door. DHS accused her of being a terrorist sympathizer. And then most notably, there was the arrest and detention of another Columbia student, Mahmoud Khalil, earlier this month over his involvement in pro Palestine protests on campus. He has not been charged with a crime, but the Trump administration is arguing it has the right to revoke his green card and deport him anyway. It wants to use an obscure law that gives Secretary of State the power to remove people he or she deems to have potentially serious adverse foreign policy consequences for the country. Hey, maybe you're hearing all of this and thinking, eh, serves those people right to get kicked out. Some of them could be gang members or enter the US Illegally. Maybe they hold views that you deeply oppose. That's valid. But that's actually not the point. The lack of recourse and due process these people are receiving is not to mention the potential violation of a judge's order. That should scare everyone, including you. We're going to talk specifically about Khalil's case and what it says about the Trump administration's approach to immigration and free speech. I spoke with Nico Perino about it. He's the executive vice president of the foundation for Individual Rights and Expression, or fire. FIRE has been sounding the alarm about Khalil's case since he was arrested. The organization wrote a letter to the White House last week demanding answers as to why he was arrested and if he'll be given due process. Nico, welcome to what a day.

[Caroline Levitt]

Thanks for having me.

[Jane Coston]

Have we ever seen a case like this before where the federal government has tried to deport a permanent resident for participating in acts of dissent. And I think it's important to keep emphasizing permanent residents. Like, we are not talking about someone who is visiting on a visa. We are talking about someone who has acquired permanent residency, which, even if you marry a citizen, is still a very involved process. Have we seen something like this before?

[Caroline Levitt]

I have to think back to the Palmer raids, actually, in 1919, when the government went after thousands of alleged anarchists, communists, left wing radicals. Even then the folks got a hearing before a judge. I have talked to immigration attorneys, and they had said they haven't seen anything quite like this. And I think there are probably like 12 novel constitutional questions invol in this one arrest in detention at a point sooner rather than later. The courts are going to have to figure out how the First Amendment applies to lawful permanent residence in the United States.

[Jane Coston]

Now, the Trump administration claims it can legally deport Khalil under the Immigration and Nationality Act. Can you break down what this act does and the specific clause the administration is invoking to make its case?

[Caroline Levitt]

Yeah, well, I've actually got Mahmoud's Khalil's notice to appear document here in my hands. They're citing the Immigration and Nationality act, which gives the Secretary of State permission to deport someone if they have reasonable ground to believe that the person's presence or activities in the United States would have potentially serious adverse foreign policy consequences for the United States. So this is essentially creating unbounded discretion for the Secretary of State to deport someone if they're, quote, adversely affecting foreign policy consequences for the United States. So what, what does that actually mean? I think it means whatever the Secretary of State says it means. I think it can just be weaponized and used by a tool for administrations to go after their political opponents or whoever is dissenting from their foreign policy at any given time. And that's dangerous. You have 13 million green card holders here in the United States.

[Jane Coston]

The Trump administration has also claimed that Khalil led, quote, activities aligned to Hamas by organizing pro Palestinian protests at Colombia. In an interview with npr, DHS Deputy Secretary Troy Edgar said this was when asked if protesting is a deportable offense, is protesting a deportable offense?

[Nico Perino]

Like I said, you're focused on protesting. I'm focused on as a visa process. He went through a legal process, came into the process.

[Jane Coston]

Are you saying that he lied on his application? He's a lawful permanent resident married to an American citizen.

[Nico Perino]

I think if he would have declared he's a terrorist, we would have never let him in.

[Jane Coston]

And what did he engage in that constitutes terrorist activity.

[Nico Perino]

I mean, Michelle, have you watched it on tv?

[Jane Coston]

It's pretty clear. No, it isn't. What's your response to this argument that it's all on tv, plain as day, that Halil's actions warrant deportation?

[Caroline Levitt]

My response is more of the head scratching. It's these shifting justifications. But if you look at the notice to appear, all it says is that the Secretary of State has this discretion. There's nothing on there about him lying on his green card or visa applications. There's nothing in there about him engaging in any sort of unlawful activity. And all you're hearing from the administration right after they arrest and detain him is that they're going after pro Hamas terrorist sympathizers. Donald Trump posted something on Truth Social about how they're going to be purging campuses of UN American activity, which leads me to wonder. It's like, are we going to start another House UN American Activities Committee to determine what is UN American activity? Now, Mahmoud Khalil was a spokesperson and mediator for the encampment at Columbia. He is involved in those student groups, but you're allowed to be involved in controversial student groups here on United States campuses. We tell students to come from foreign countries, often countries with authoritarian dictatorships, to come here to the United States and bask in the freedom of speech and discussion and academic freedom that our campuses allow for. But now we're essentially telling them, watch what you say. I don't know that that's the message of liberty that we want to send to, to foreigners or to lawful permanent residents who wish to stay here.

[Jane Coston]

Now, if you'll allow me to be a giant dork, because this, this really interests me, the arguments that I'm hearing. And you actually brought up 1919 a little bit earlier. There's a case from 1919, Abrams versus United States. And this kind of reminds me of that a little bit. Can you tell me about that case? And specifically Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, legendary dissent.

[Caroline Levitt]

Yeah. So this was a case that involved Eastern Europeans protesting against America's involvement in the Bolshevik Revolution, essentially calling for a general strike because they didn't want America to send troops or material to, you know, put down the Soviets or to fight against the Soviets. And they threw some leaflets at out of windows in one instance, calling for this general strike. And they were thrown in jail for this. And these were foreigners. They weren't citizens. And Justice Oliver Rendell Holmes wrote a dissent in that case, and it was called the Great Dissent. It was the dissent that changed the course of The First Amendment's history. Prior to that, the First Amendment meant nothing. Anti war protesters, labor radicals, they're all thrown in jail Monday, Tuesday and Thursday for their speech. And from there, the First Amendment started to grow into the thing it, it is today. And it all came from a dissent defending the rights of a, a foreigner here in the United States. And the Supreme Court has referenced this dissent countless times throughout the last hundred plus years. And so we ignore that dissent and all the wisdom and law that came from it. In this rationale that the government is using right now to go after Mahmoud.

[Jane Coston]

Khalil, something that struck me is that the Khalil case isn't even about opinions about the United States. They are about opinions with regard to another country, in this case Israel's actions in Gaza. So how does that play into how the administration is handling this? Like it is completely legal to be in the United States and say fuck America. I could do that all day if I wanted to, but I have things to do. But this is actually in many cases about talking about another country that is not the United States.

[Caroline Levitt]

And that's why this is confusing, is that you can criticize America, you can criticize China, you can criticize Russia, you can criticize Israel. All of this is protected by the First Amendment. But I think what you have here is an administration that was brought into office because a lot of people in America didn't like how the protests had unfolded on college campuses since October 7th. And many of those protests involved unlawful activity, building occupations, vandalism, preventing people from accessing different portions of campus. But a lot of those protests also involved protected speech. And you need to be able to sort between the two. And Mahmoud Khalil would not wear a mask at these protests. That was a principle of his the New York Times report on this. He would not wear masks at any of these protests. So he was very visible when he was attending and working as a spokesperson and mediator. And I think because he was visible, they were able to identify him and now they're going after him to deport him as well. But maybe the case isn't as good for deporting him as it would have been. Maybe one of the building occupiers, per se.

[Jane Coston]

Nico, thank you so much for being here.

[Caroline Levitt]

Happy to be here anytime.

[Jane Coston]

That was my conversation with Nico Perino. He's the executive vice president of fire. We'll get to more of the news in a moment, but if you like the show, make sure to subscribe. Leave a five star review on Apple Podcasts, watch us on YouTube and share with your friends. More to come after some ads What a day is brought to you by Magic Spoon Magic Spoon makes high protein, zero sugar cereal and treats Reinvented from your childhood. So much nostalgia. Magic Spoon is also launching a brand new high protein granola. True to the Magic Spoon promise, it's packed with protein and so crunchy and so good. Magic Spoon's high protein treats are crispy, crunchy, airy and an easy way to get 12 grams of protein on the go. They come in mouthwatering flavors like marshmallow and dark chocolate. And Magic Spoon's brand new granola packs in 13 grams of protein and zero added sugars. They come in amazing flavors like dark chocolate, almond, honey almond and peanut butter. Get $5 off your next order at magicspoon.comday. or look for Magic Spoon on Amazon or in your nearest grocery store. That's magicspoon.comday for $5 off.

[Nico Perino]

Charlie Heller is the CIA's most brilliant computer analyst whose life is turned upside down when his wife is murdered in a terrorist attack. Wrought with grief, Charlie decides her killers must pay. Without any field experience, Charlie must trek the globe and use his biggest weapon, his intelligence, to enact his revenge. Because the most unexpected threat is an amateur. Starring Academy Award winner Rami Malek and Academy Award nominee Laurence Fishburne, The Amateur rated PG13, only in theaters in IMAX April 11.

[Jane Coston]

Here's what else we're following today.

[Nico Perino]

Head of lines.

[Donald Trump]

They lose on a daily basis, which is why Donald Trump increasingly is now trying to attack and intimidate lawyers.

[Jane Coston]

Maryland Democratic Representative Jamie Raskin says even though President Donald Trump, quote, gives the finger to the courts every single day, Democrats are winning on a daily basis in court. Raskin spoke with the what a Day newsletter Monday and said Democrats are defeating the administration's efforts to nullify birthright citizenship and that they're working to stop the unconstitutional spending freeze and halt the mass sacking of probationary employees.

[Donald Trump]

One of the victories we won last week was a federal district court decision in the District of Columbia finding that Doge is in fact a federal agency. That means that Doge is subject to FOIA and the Privacy Act.

[Jane Coston]

In that decision, a federal judge ruled that Elon Musk's Department of Government Efficiency must respond to public records requests, as it's likely subject to the Freedom of Information Act. Raskin said his optimism comes from looking, quote, through the prism of the Constitution.

[Donald Trump]

Donald Trump has already lost several times in this administration in the court. I think it was last week or perhaps the week before. There was a 5 to 4 decision upholding lower court rulings that the administration had to spend $2.1 billion of aid money that they had held up and said the court stood with Congress's power of the purse under Article 1.

[Jane Coston]

Raskin says there have been more than 120 cases filed against the administration so far and the court is doing its job to uphold the law. The Trump administration says South Africa's ambassador has been officially expelled from the United States. That's after Secretary of State Marco Rubio declared him Persona non grata on Twitter last week and called him a quote, race baiting politician who hates America and President Trump. South Africa's government called the decision to expel Ambassador Ibrahim Rasool regrettable. In his Friday tweet, Rubio cited an article from the right wing news website Breitbart. It linked to a video of Rasool giving a webinar speech to a South African think tank. In it, Rasool accused Trump of leading a white supremacist movement and pinned it in part to changing demographics in the US at the same time, the Trump administration has created an extremely small carve out in its draconian anti immigration policies specifically for South Africa's minority white population. Trump signed an executive order last month saying his White House would prioritize resettling white Afrikaner refugees. He also halted all foreign aid to the country. It's tied to a conspiracy in right wing circles that white South Africans face persecution from the country's majority black post apartheid government, but the white South Africans are really doing just fine. While they only make up about 7% of the population, they still own at least half the land.

[Caroline Levitt]

Join us now on the Voice of America as we explore the issues in the news.

[Jane Coston]

Trump signed an executive order Friday to dismantle the U.S. agency for Global Media, the office that runs Voice of America. The federally funded broadcast service was founded during World War II to deliver news around the world to combat Nazi propaganda. It has a global audience of hundreds of millions of listeners. Trump has always hated voa, ever since his first term in office. He and Republicans have accused the network of being biased against conservatives. Co President Elon Musk called on the government to shut down VOA last month, branding it as an outlet run by, quote, radical left crazy people. The director of VOA said Saturday that nearly all staffers of the network were put on indefinite paid leave in the wake of Trump's executive order. That's more than a thousand journalists and producers, some VOA staffers told politico that they were on their way to work when they received an email telling them not to come in. It's unclear what this means for Kari Lake, the Arizona Republican Trump tapped to lead the Agency for Global Media. Now that the agency might not exist anymore. Lake, a failed gubernatorial and Senate candidate, was set to direct VOA. It's giving Linda McMahon Harvard has plans to make attending the school more financially realistic Harvard University President Alan Garber announced Monday that Starting in the 20252026 academic school year, undergraduate tuition will be free for students whose family's annual income is $200,000 or less. And for students whose families make $100,000 or less annually, Harvard College will be even more free, the Harvard Gazette said. On top of tuition, billed expenses like food, housing, health insurance and travel costs will be covered. Is it too late to see if I can get into Harvard? The decision comes as the Trump administration is working tirelessly to cut diversity efforts in schools, the federal government, the military, basically anything it can get its hands on, garber said. Putting Harvard within financial reach for more individuals widens the array of backgrounds, experiences and perspectives that all of our students encounter, fostering their intellectual and personal growth. Other schools, like the University of Pennsylvania and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, have also announced similar tuition plans since the Supreme Court's decision to end affirmative action in higher education. And that's the before we go, yesterday I talked a bit about why Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer backed up the GOP government spending bill. If you want to hear Dan Pfeiffer break it all down even further, just check out a clip from his subscriber exclusive series Polar Coaster on the pod save America YouTube channel. For the full episode, subscribe to our Friends of the pod [e-mail] friends or directly through the Pod Save America Apple feed. That's all for today. If you like the show, make sure you subscribe. Leave a review. Tell me which food cannot be paired with either peanut butter or hot sauce, and tell your friends to listen. And if you're into reading and not just about how this question, the product of sports journalist Mike Golick Jr. Has overtaken my entire life. Like me, what a Day is also a nightly newsletter. Check it out and [e-mail] subscribe I'm Jane Costen and I am completely serious. Tell me which food cannot be paired with either peanut butter or hot sauce. Water Day is a production of Crooked Media. It's recorded and mixed by Desmond Taylor. Our associate producers are Raven Yamamoto and Emily Foer. Our producer is Michelle Aloy. We had production help today from Johanna Case, Joseph Dutra, Greg Walters, and Julia Claire. Our senior producer is Erica Morrison and our executive producer is Adrienne Hill. Our theme music is by Colin Gilliard and Kashaka. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East.

[Nico Perino]

Skipping cold and flu season is Plan A. But if you do get sick, be prepared for Plan B with Kleenex lotion Tissues. Kleenex lotion tissues moisturize skin, helping prevent the added discomfort of red, irritated skin on top of your cold and flu symptoms. So this cold and flu season, grab Kleenex lotion tissues. Visit kleenex.com to learn more and buy now for whatever happens next. Grab Kleenex. The new KFC Dunk It Bucket with juicy original recipe tenders, new mashed potato poppers, crispy fries, plus three sauces that fit right on top of the lid so you can dunk anywhere. You can dunk at the game. Dunk while security points to the no outside food sign and dunk as 20,000 people watch you and your Dunkin Bucket get removed from the stadium. Dunk almost anywhere with the new $7 KFC Dunkin'Bucket or get the double dunkit bucket for 25. Prices and participation vary while supplies last, taxes, tips and fees, extra.