Tucker Carlson's Vision For America - What A Day

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[00:00]
A
You know, I mean, this is a guy, he has a big audience. I think he has a big ego. It seems like, you know, he's probably thinking, you know, maybe I should just run for president myself.
[00:18]
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I'm Jane Coston, and this is what has some surprising news that you will never, ever believe. A family member of a Trump administration official will likely benefit from a White House policy shift. I know you're stunned. See, the Trump administration had backed a ban on intoxicating hemp products like gummies and sodas last year. But now the White House is asking Congress to delay the enforcement of that ban with the support of hemp industry insiders. Among those insiders, Brett Worley, White House Chief of staff Susie Wiles, son in law now look, influence peddling and pay for play allegations are bad. But this time it's for gummies one could take before watching old episodes of Love it or List it hypothetically. On today's show, we talk to the Bulwarks Will sommer about Tucker Carlson's maybe potentially third party run in 2028. Before we go into that horrifying region of possible hell, here's who we're following today. Thursday, August 6th, eight days ago, Dr. Anthony Fauci sat before this committee in the witness chair under subpoena for conduct covered by the President Biden's full and unconditional pardon reaching back to 2014. Dr. Fauci faced no risk of federal prosecution. All he had to do was tell the truth more than 100 times, though he refused. And that really bothered you, didn't it, Senator Paul? A Senate committee voted along party lines today to hold Dr. Anthony Fauci in contempt of Congress. But for what? For refusing to answer questions and invoking his Fifth Amendment right against self incrimination at a hearing on his handling of the COVID 19 pandemic. In doing so, Fauci raised fresh legal questions about Congress's ability to compel testimony from a previously pardoned witness. Quick refresher. Fauci received a pardon last year from then President Joe Biden. But Kentucky Republican Senator Rand Paul said constitutional protection does not apply. He argues Fauci's pardon means he doesn't have to worry about the threat of prosecution for anything he did while he was leading the US Covid response. Paul has said he intends to send the contempt referral directly to the Justice Department rather than first to the full Senate. Democrats, however, have questions over the legal validity of such a maneuver. I have questions as to why the Republican Party has decided that yelling about 2020 is a valuable contribution to the discourse. President Donald Trump spent part of his Thursday, as he typically does, screaming on the Internet, this time about a Washington Post report regarding his in person screaming. The Post reported on Thursday that Trump yelled at Defense Secretary little boy Pete Hegseth during a Cabinet meeting held at Camp David last week. The President was allegedly demanding answers relating to the reporting of munitions shortages that have impacted Trump's war on Iran. As we mentioned on the show earlier this week, the US has run extremely low on surface to surface guided missiles and and missile interceptors as a result of the war in Iran. White House Press Secretary Caroline Levitt denied the allegations. But in response to the Post reporting, Trump posted today on Truth Social that, quote, the leakers of these treasonous statements are being hunted down. Long term jail sentences will be sought, which does not imply the reporting was false. Exactly. But don't worry. Trump later posted, quote, I am extremely happy with the job that Pete Hegseth is doing and that everything in Iran is going just fine. Speaking of the war, Oman and Iran are attempting to negotiate terms to reopen the Strait of Hormuz to shipping for a fee. You know the strait that was open with no fees before the war began.
[03:54]
A
Now therefore, be it resolved by this Parliament as follows.
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We seek the resolution of Parliament that Parliament supports the decision of His Excellency the President of the Republic of Uganda
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to deploy the Uganda People's Defence Forces in the Gaza Strip for a peacekeeping
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mission in accordance with the Constitution of
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Uganda and section 38 of Uganda People's Defence Forces Act.
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I beg to move. Uganda's Defence Minister sought and won parliamentary approval today to deploy troops to Gaza. The successful motion is Uganda's first public indication that it's willing to join the International Stabilization Force. The force was announced by Trump's Board of Peace earlier this year to secure the territory following the Israel Hamas war. It was not immediately clear why Uganda agreed to deploy in Gaza or if there was a quid pro quo involved. However, the Defense Minister cited Uganda's military capabilities stemming from its peacekeeping deployments in countries such as Somalia. Here on Water Day, we like to bring you the most important news of the moment. So grab a spoon and your milk of choice, because today that means cereal. W.K. kellogg, the company behind Froot Loops and Apple Jacks, said it will remove artificial colors from all its cereals by the end of 2026. And guess what? The change comes a year earlier than the company's original commitment. Okay, overachievers. The company has faced pressure for years to remove artificial ingredients from its cereals, which it has already done in other countries like Canada. That pressure has grown under Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. Not to mention Kellogg signed an agreement with Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton last August saying it would eliminate toxic dyes from its cereals. Kellogg said it will use fruit and vegetable based juices to color their cereals because no one wants their Froot Loops to be taupe. And that's the news. Let's talk about maga. It's a tough time to be a fervent supporter of President Donald Trump. I mean, first you're a fervent supporter of President Donald Trump, but also, you're probably getting pretty lonely. Support for Trump is dropping everywhere, with Quinnipiac measuring his approval at just 32% at the end of July. But how bad could it really be? Pretty bad. Even in ruby red Mississippi, Trump has an approval rating of 46%, a record low for the state. That's according to new data from Civics. So what went wrong? If you're bow tie enthusiast Tucker Carlson, the answer is that Trump betrayed what MAGA truly stood for, which just so happens to be whatever Tucker thinks MAGA stood for. In fact, he argued in a live stream Wednesday night that both parties have turned against the American people. And he has some thoughts on what would make life better. A vision, you could call it.
[06:45]
A
We thought it'd be useful just to set down the goals of whatever comes next and it'll find all kinds of expressions and hopefully it's better than what we have. But we know it'll be different from what we have because what we have literally doesn't work. It can't protect itself from the greatest threats in human history.
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Tucker didn't say in this live stream that he's going to run for president in 2028, but a lot of people think he should, including some of Trump's most prominent former allies. So ask the bulwarks Will Summer what's really behind Tucker Carlson's long rant? Will welcome back to Water Day.
[07:21]
A
Hey, thanks for having me.
[07:23]
B
So on Wednesday night, Tucker Carlson livestreamed for over an hour about his vision for America. He did not formally announce a presidential run. He said he does not want to run for president, but he basically unveiled a campaign platform. Can you quickly walk us through Tucker's wonderful ideas for America?
[07:42]
A
Yeah, I mean, basically, I think we could sum it up as him saying essentially, like, you know, everything sucks and, you know, I'm the only one who can fix it. I mean, he had 10 words that he said, america has to be. And so it's optimistic, decent, sovereign, beautiful.
[07:57]
B
Yeah, yeah.
[07:58]
A
Who could disagree with that? And then he would dive in and say, like, okay, sovereign is about not just borders, but also, you know, banning foreign lobbyists and even, like, getting rid of debt ceiling, seemingly, even for people. He didn't exactly get into specifics, but it really looked like a campaign platform, even if he didn't say explicitly that he's running for president.
[08:18]
B
Yeah. The thing that struck me is that he said a lot of things like optimistic and beautiful, but those were all euphemisms. Like, optimistic is a euphemism for everybody needs to have kids. Beautiful is a euphemism for violent crime, makes everything ugly, and it should be illegal to make ugly buildings. What else stuck out to you?
[08:39]
A
I felt like he was really positioning himself at the center of a lot of kind of like, these populist revolts we're seeing. Whether it's about these flock surveillance cameras or, you know, if, like, if you go on TikTok, there's a lot of people who are like, the data centers are buying up the farmland near me, and it's like, well, is that illegal, per se? Or they're upset about solar panels, things like that. And I mean, the one that struck me was he really got into sort of like this. This idea that we're losing the American heartland to these things like the surveillance cameras or the data centers, and this idea that farms should be sacrosanct, sort of this idea. And it's very Trumpian thing as well, that this American golden age has been lost.
[09:16]
B
Yeah. And I have seen the Flock surveillance thing all over the place. That has been something. I think Carlson is correctly picking up on, a bipartisan concern that doesn't really seem to run conservative or liberal because I've seen people on blue sky talking about it. Can you just very quickly explain what flock surveillance cameras are doing and where they are?
[09:38]
A
So these are these cameras that are typically set up alongside roadways by this company called flock, and then they can be used. They track license plates and car movement, and so they can be used by local police departments. I think in the best case scenario is to say, okay, and then the criminal committed this crime, and then we track them to where they were. But I think in practice in the Washington Post and some other outlets have done a lot of reporting on this. These are, like, insanely abusive in terms of surveillance. The Washington Post had stories about cops being like, that's a hot lady. I'd like to know where she lives or I'd like to track her movements.
[10:09]
B
People stalking former partners. Like it's being used in the way that you kind of think the worst people would use something like this.
[10:15]
A
Exactly. And so there's this kind of broader sort of revolt against this idea of this surveillance. And I think Tucker, who's a very savvy guy about sort of what the next issue is going to be, he's, he's saying, you know, we got to get rid of these cameras.
[10:29]
B
So Carlson's livestream came a few days after he hosted other notable ex MAGA figures at his home. Former Georgia Representative Marjorie Taylor Greene posted a photo on Twitter showing Kentucky Representative Thomas Massie and ex national security official Joe Kent, among others, and writing of Trump quote, he's betrayed us all. So can you remind us all how they fell out of favor with the president?
[10:53]
A
Sure. So, you know, Thomas Massie has always been kind of a contrarian libertarian member of Congress, but him and Marjorie Taylor Greene was obviously much more devoted to Trump in the past, was a QAnon believer in all this stuff. The pair of them really fell out with Trump over their efforts to get the Epstein files released. They were, you know, one of the handful of Republicans who were in favor of that. And Trump essentially ran Marjorie Taylor Greene out of office and successfully primaried Thomas Massie as well. Now, Joe Kent is another interesting case. This is a guy who is very much in kind of like the Tucker Carlson, you know, more isolationist, more Israel critical mold and yet he managed to be the US Count terrorism chief in this new administration up until he resigned in protest over the war with Iran. So you have a lot of people who were sort of Trump allies to various degrees who have now been cast out of MAGA world or have quit and have have united in whatever this new effort is going to look like.
[11:49]
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If you, like me, do not feel bad for people who supported Donald Trump and then got shafted by him. Stick around. We'll get back to my conversation with Will Sommer in a moment. In the meantime, make sure to subscribe, leave a 5 star review on Spotify and Apple podcasts, watch us on YouTube and share with your friends. More to come after some ads. What a day is brought to you by Nutrafol. Summer is full of vacations, weekend getaways, and spending more time outdoors. And when you're packing for a trip, the last thing you want is to be worrying about your hair. Nutrafol is the number one dermatologist recommended hair growth supplement brand and it's the one hair growth supplement brand personally used by dermatologists. Nutrafol's hair growth supplements are peer reviewed, NSF certified for sport and clinically tested. Let your hair be one less thing to worry about. See visibly thicker, Stronger, faster Growing hair in three to six months with Nutrafol For a limited time, Nutrafol is offering our listeners $10 off your first month subscription and free shipping when you visit nutrafol.com and enter promo code day10 that's nutrafool.com spelled n u t r-a f o l.com promo code day10 what a day is brought to you by Fast Growing Trees. Did you know? Fast Growing Trees is America's largest and most trusted online nursery with thousands of trees and plants and over 2 million happy customers. They have all the plants your yard or home needs, including fruit trees, privacy trees, flowering trees, shrubs and houseplants, all grown with care and guaranteed to arrive healthy. It's like your local nursery, but anywhere you live with more plants than you'll find anywhere else. Whatever you're looking for, Fast Growing Trees helps you find options that actually work for your climate, space and lifestyle. Fast Growing Trees makes it easy to get your dream yard. Just click, order, grow and get healthy, thriving plants delivered to your door. Their Alive and Thrive guarantee promises that your plants arrive happy and healthy. No green thumb required, just quality plants you can count on. Plus get ongoing support from trained plant experts who can help you plan your landscape, choose the right plants and learn how to care for them every step of the way. My husband and I love giving our friends and family gifts from Fast Growing trees. They always arrive happy, healthy and ready for years of growing. Right now they have great deals on planting essentials, up to half off on select plants and listeners to our show get 20% off their first purchase when using the code WAD at checkout. That's an additional 20% off. Better plants and better growing at fastgrowingtrees.com using the code WAD at checkout fastgrowingtrees.com code WAD now is the perfect time to plant. Let's grow together. Use WAD to Save today. Offer is valid for a limited time. Terms and conditions may apply.
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C
Hi, I'm Alex Wagner. I do not need to tell you that being an American right now is a wild ride. But as a longtime journalist, I am not interested in the noise or the fear mongering. I'm interested in the stories at the heart of the headlines. That is why every week on my show Runaway Country, I'm joined by folks in the middle of the crossfire, from disillusioned Maha moms to newly fired immigration judges to Epstein victims themselves, to understand what it means to live through this political chaos as an actual human being. And now I'm excited to tell you that Runaway country is available ad free to Friends of the Pod subscribers. Friends of the Pod is a subscription that supports the work Crooked does as an independent media company and gives you a ton of great bonus and ad free content. With the midterms approaching, you are going to need more content to keep you sane. And now you can find Runaway country right there. Subscribe now and click crooked.com friends.
[15:17]
B
Let's get back to my conversation with Will Sommer. Back in July, Carlson told the Columbia Journalism Review, quote, there's going to be a third party and I'm going to do everything I can to bring it about. Now, third parties don't really work in the United States, and in my view, the best way a third party can work, and by best I mean like, most effective way for it to work, is to try to get one of the two main parties to do something they want. You see this from left leaning parties and you see this from the Libertarian Party, for example. So why does Tucker Carlson actually want to start a third party?
[15:54]
A
Yeah, you're right. I mean, third parties don't have a great track record in the US in terms of like actually achieving power. I mean, typically they would just be siphoning off whatever. They're kind of like ideologically aligned. Major party is. I think there's a couple things going on here. Number one, I think Tucker Carlson was really close with J.D. vance and the war with Iran has kind of soured him on Vance for now. I think there's this sense of if JD Won't do it right, maybe I'll have to do it myself and run for president instead. I think he feels kind of spurned by Trump and the administration more broadly. And then this is a guy, he has a big audience. I think he has a big ego. It seems like he's probably thinking, maybe I should just run for president myself.
[16:36]
B
So underlying all of this is Tucker's idea that Trump failed MAGA by going against his America first promises, mishandling the Epstein files, going to war with Iran. And that's kind of the idea that you get from Marjorie Taylor Greene and from a host of these other people who all think like MAGA is a real thing and Trump has messed with it or betrayed it. But Trump has repeatedly says he's maga. Whatever MAGA is. That's him. And I agree with that. And I've been making that argument now for, like, 11 years, roughly, that whatever Trump says, that is what MAGA is. So who do you think is right here?
[17:13]
A
I think this can be kind of ideologically slippery, but as you said, I think MAGA is essentially whatever Donald Trump says it is. And there's very little ideological consistency going on with the Trump administration. It's sort of whatever's convenient. Whoever talked to Trump last, who, whoever he's mad at, whatever. And I think that's what's been driving this split between maga, which is essentially whatever Trump tells you to do or tells you to believe, and America first, which is how Marjorie Taylor Greene, I think, would say, essentially she was a true believer in Trumpism, whatever that was supposed to be in 2016 or 2020. And now they're kind of trying to what Trump promised them, they're trying to actually fulfill.
[17:52]
B
So what do you think? Is Tucker Carlson actually going to run for president in 2028, you know, after
[17:58]
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this monologue or this speech? I think he will, obviously. You know, it's still a few years away, but I think he is this sort of read to me like a presidential announcement speech. I think he's laying it out. I will say he didn't mention a lot of his crazier ideas. Independents might not like, like the demonism, the demonology, and all of these other kind of wackier ideas.
[18:19]
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Also, his views on minorities or women or anything like that, that's what got me about the use of euphemisms, is like this idea that who could object to beauty, who could object to sovereignty. But one, he and Nick Fuentes are agreeing about how the real problem are women and that there's no such thing as a happy, married, liberal woman. Like, again, ideological slipperiness is a theme for Tucker Carlson. So I think my next thought is, like, how do you think he would do? Because what we've seen with Thomas Massie and a host of other people is that there actually aren't that many America Firsters. I mean, they're very prevalent on Twitter. But, like, in the actual voting public, there are lots of people who voted for Trump and are just kind of fine with whatever he does, or they're not fine with whatever he does, and they just would vote for a Democrat.
[19:11]
A
Well, you know, it's interesting. I mean, I think Trump's new lows in the polls, I think we're around 32% now in terms of the approval rating. I think that does suggest that there's some amount of Trump supporters who are feeling discontented or people who had voted for Trump. Now I think if Trump ran again, they vote for him against a Democrat, probably. But is all that support going to transfer to JD Vance or Marco Rubio or whoever, especially if even Republicans continue to be unhappy with this administration? I mean, probably not. And so I think Tucker Carlson is, is recognizing whether it's I'm gonna talk about the Epstein class, I'm gonna talk about the data centers, these things that kind of split people away from Trump. I think he's rightly recognizing that there's gonna be this pool of voters that you can capture.
[19:52]
B
Will, as always, thank you so much for joining me.
[19:54]
A
Thanks for having me.
[19:56]
B
That was my conversation with Will Sommer, senior reporter at the Bulwark. We'll link to his newsletter in the show notes before we go, if you haven't gotten tickets for Crooked Con yet, there are some exciting new faces joining us at Crooked we believe the answer to right wing authoritarianism is a big, welcoming, fun pro democracy movement. So we've invited some of the biggest, funniest voices online to all day CrookedCon. At CrookedCon you'll have the chance to meet creators and new media personalities who make sense of the news with humor and hot takes. They'll be bopping around the Washington Convention center, hosting happy hours, Q&As and workshops for attendees. They'll also be making content because what happens at CrookedCon ends up online. For every political nerd to see, check out which creators are joining us so far@crookedcon.com and grab your tickets today. See you in D.C. that's all for today. If you like the show, make sure you subscribe, leave a review, check out new images of the surface of the sun and tell your friends to listen. And if you're into reading and not just about how scientists in Maui, Hawaii were able to capture the closest and best images of the sun's surface we've ever been able to see. Like me, what a Day is also a nightly newsletter. Check it out and subscribe@crooked.com subscribe I'm Jane Coston and if you want to experience the surface of the sun, I recommend just going outside. What a Day is a production of Crooked Media. Our show is produced by Kaitlyn Plummer, Emily Foer, Erica Morrison and Adrienne Hill. Our team includes Haley Jones, Greg Walters, Matt Berg, Joseph Dutra, Johanna Case, and Desmond Taylor. Our music is by Kyle Murdoch and Jordan Cantor. We had help today from the asu. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East.
[21:34]
C
Hi, I'm Alex Wagner. I do not need to tell you that being an American right now is a wild ride. But as a longtime journalist, I am not interested in the noise or the fear mongering. I'm interested in the stories at the heart of the headlines. That is why every week on my show Runaway Country, I'm joined by folks in in the middle of the crossfire. From disillusioned Maha moms to newly fired immigration judges to Epstein victims themselves to understand what it means to live through this political chaos as an actual human being. And now I'm excited to tell you that Runaway country is available ad free to Friends of the POD subscribers. Friends of the Pod is a subscription that supports the work Crooked does as an independent media company and gives you a ton of great bonus and ad free content. With the midterms approaching, you are going to need more content to keep you sane. And now you can find Runaway country right there. Subscribe now@crooked.com friends.

Summary6 min read

What A Day – Episode Summary

Episode Title: Tucker Carlson’s Vision For America
Date: August 6, 2026
Host: Jane Coaston
Guest: Will Sommer (The Bulwark)

Episode Overview

In this episode, Jane Coaston dives into the speculation around Tucker Carlson’s potential 2028 presidential ambitions, unpacking his recent publicly shared “vision for America” and the current fracture in MAGA circles. Joined by Will Sommer, senior reporter at The Bulwark, the conversation explores Carlson’s nationalist-populist rhetoric, his critique of Donald Trump, and whether a third party fronted by Fox’s former star could genuinely disrupt American politics.

Major News Updates (00:00–06:44)

Ethics in Politics: News about influence-peddling and policy shifts benefiting Trump administration relatives (Brett Worley, son-in-law of Susie Wiles) regarding a hemp products ban (00:18).
Fauci in the Spotlight: Dr. Anthony Fauci held in contempt by a Senate committee after invoking the Fifth Amendment; discussion on legal issues post-pardon and tensions between Republicans and Democrats (01:30).
War in Iran: Shortage of US missiles and rumors of President Trump berating his Defense Secretary, with heated social media statements and Iran-Oman negotiations to reopen the Strait of Hormuz (02:50).
International Peacekeeping: Uganda’s parliament agrees to send troops to Gaza as part of Trump’s International Stabilization Force post-Israel-Hamas war—raising questions about Uganda’s motivations (03:54).
Cereal News: W.K. Kellogg commits to eliminating artificial colors by end of 2026, under regulatory and market pressure (04:22).
Trump’s Waning Support: Polls show Trump hitting record-low approval nationally and in Mississippi (32% and 46% respectively), with MAGA discontent mounting (05:45).

Tucker Carlson’s Vision For America

[Segment Begins 06:44]

Key Points:

Carlson's Platform Unveiled:
Will Sommer paraphrases Carlson’s message:

“You know, everything sucks and, you know, I’m the only one who can fix it… He had 10 words that he said America has to be. And so it’s optimistic, decent, sovereign, beautiful.”
(Will Sommer, 07:41)
Euphemisms and Policy:
Jane notes:

“He said a lot of things like optimistic and beautiful, but those were all euphemisms. Like, optimistic is a euphemism for everybody needs to have kids. Beautiful is a euphemism for violent crime makes everything ugly, and it should be illegal to make ugly buildings.”
(Jane Coaston, 08:18)
Populist Themes:
Carlson’s speech is heavy on nationalist-populist signifiers: nostalgia for a lost American golden age, concern about data centers buying farmland, condemnation of surveillance cameras (notably Flock systems), and a belief that “farms should be sacrosanct.”

“The one that struck me was he really got into this idea that we’re losing the American heartland to these things…”
(Will Sommer, 08:38)

Flock Surveillance Cameras Explained (09:15)

What Are They?:
Sommer explains these roadside cameras (by the company Flock) track license plates for local police, but are open to abuse for stalking and privacy violations.

"These are, like, insanely abusive in terms of surveillance… cops being like, that's a hot lady, I’d like to know where she lives…"
(Will Sommer, 09:38 & 10:08)

The MAGA Rift & Exiles (10:28–11:49)

Carlson’s Circle:
Former Trump allies (Marjorie Taylor Greene, Thomas Massie, Joe Kent) assemble at Carlson’s home, publicly accusing Trump of betrayal over issues like the Epstein files and foreign policy.
Why Did They Fall Out With Trump?:
- Greene and Massie pushed for Epstein files’ release, were subsequently ousted/primaried.
- Joe Kent resigned from government over the Iran war.
“You have a lot of people who were sort of Trump allies… who have now been cast out of MAGA world or have quit and have united in whatever this new effort is going to look like.”
(Will Sommer, 11:35)

Is Carlson Really Running for President?

[Segment Resumes 15:17]

Carlson’s Third Party Hopes:
Jane:

“Third parties don’t usually work… the best way… is to try to get one of the two main parties to do something they want. Why does Tucker actually want to start a third party?”
(Jane Coaston, 15:17)

Sommer speculates it’s partly ego, partly fallout with Trump and J.D. Vance, and a possible calculation that “maybe I should just run for president myself.”
(Will Sommer, 16:00)
Ideological Slipperiness of MAGA:

“I think MAGA is essentially whatever Donald Trump says it is. And… that’s what’s been driving this split between MAGA… and America First, which is… what Trump promised them, they’re trying to actually fulfill.”
(Will Sommer, 17:13)
Will Tucker Run?
Sommer thinks so:

“This sort of read to me like a presidential announcement speech. I think he’s laying it out. I will say he didn’t mention a lot of his crazier ideas. Independents might not like, like the demonism, the demonology, and all of these other kind of wackier ideas.”
(Will Sommer, 17:57)
Who’s Tucker’s Audience?
Discussion that most voters aren’t hardline America First types; many former Trump voters could still drift back to the GOP if the circumstances are right.

“…there actually aren’t that many America Firsters… in the actual voting public, there are lots of people who voted for Trump and are just kind of fine with whatever he does.”
(Jane Coaston, 18:18)

Notable Quotes and Moments

On Tucker’s “vision”:

“He had 10 words that he said America has to be. And so it’s optimistic, decent, sovereign, beautiful.”
(Will Sommer, 07:41)
On Euphemisms:

“‘Optimistic’ is a euphemism for everybody needs to have kids. ‘Beautiful’ is a euphemism for violent crime makes everything ugly, and it should be illegal to make ugly buildings.”
(Jane Coaston, 08:18)
On Surveillance Cameras’ Abuse:

“These are, like, insanely abusive in terms of surveillance… cops being like, that’s a hot lady, I’d like to know where she lives…”
(Will Sommer, 10:08)
On MAGA Identity:

“MAGA is essentially whatever Donald Trump says it is. And there’s very little ideological consistency…”
(Will Sommer, 17:13)
On Coalition Size:

“…there actually aren’t that many America Firsters… in the actual voting public, there are lots of people who voted for Trump and are just kind of fine with whatever he does…”
(Jane Coaston, 18:18)

Timestamps of Key Segments

00:00–06:44 – Headlines: ethics, Covid hearings, Iran war, Ugandan peacekeepers, Kellogg ingredient changes, Trump poll woes
06:44–11:49 – Carlson’s “vision,” populist grievances, Flock cameras, MAGA schisms
15:17–19:54 – Third party viability, Carlson’s potential candidacy, MAGA’s ideological confusion, audience limits

Tone and Takeaways

The episode is brisk, wry, and analytical. Jane Coaston injects dry humor into the discussion of serious fractures and performative politics among right-wing figures. Will Sommer brings thorough reporting and skepticism about both the substance and political reach of the Carlson ex-MAGA wave. The consensus: Tucker Carlson may be plotting a campaign, but the path to meaningful power through a third party is steep—and most of the populist right remains more performative than programmatic.

For those with limited time, the episode's core:

Tucker Carlson is flirting with a presidential run, channeling MAGA disaffection with Trump post-war and scandals.
His “vision” is heavy on slogans and culture war tropes, light on policy.
His circle of ex-Trumpers is vocal but limited in broader electoral appeal.
The mechanics and chances for a Carlson-led third party remain deeply questionable.

—
Listen for:

Will Sommer’s breakdown of Flock camera controversies (09:15–10:28)
Sharp commentary on the meaning of “MAGA” (17:13)
Analysis of Carlson’s motives and limitations as a presidential aspirant (15:17–19:54)

Loading summary

Transcript37 lines

[00:00]
A
You know, I mean, this is a guy, he has a big audience. I think he has a big ego. It seems like, you know, he's probably thinking, you know, maybe I should just run for president myself.
[00:18]
B
I'm Jane Coston, and this is what has some surprising news that you will never, ever believe. A family member of a Trump administration official will likely benefit from a White House policy shift. I know you're stunned. See, the Trump administration had backed a ban on intoxicating hemp products like gummies and sodas last year. But now the White House is asking Congress to delay the enforcement of that ban with the support of hemp industry insiders. Among those insiders, Brett Worley, White House Chief of staff Susie Wiles, son in law now look, influence peddling and pay for play allegations are bad. But this time it's for gummies one could take before watching old episodes of Love it or List it hypothetically. On today's show, we talk to the Bulwarks Will sommer about Tucker Carlson's maybe potentially third party run in 2028. Before we go into that horrifying region of possible hell, here's who we're following today. Thursday, August 6th, eight days ago, Dr. Anthony Fauci sat before this committee in the witness chair under subpoena for conduct covered by the President Biden's full and unconditional pardon reaching back to 2014. Dr. Fauci faced no risk of federal prosecution. All he had to do was tell the truth more than 100 times, though he refused. And that really bothered you, didn't it, Senator Paul? A Senate committee voted along party lines today to hold Dr. Anthony Fauci in contempt of Congress. But for what? For refusing to answer questions and invoking his Fifth Amendment right against self incrimination at a hearing on his handling of the COVID 19 pandemic. In doing so, Fauci raised fresh legal questions about Congress's ability to compel testimony from a previously pardoned witness. Quick refresher. Fauci received a pardon last year from then President Joe Biden. But Kentucky Republican Senator Rand Paul said constitutional protection does not apply. He argues Fauci's pardon means he doesn't have to worry about the threat of prosecution for anything he did while he was leading the US Covid response. Paul has said he intends to send the contempt referral directly to the Justice Department rather than first to the full Senate. Democrats, however, have questions over the legal validity of such a maneuver. I have questions as to why the Republican Party has decided that yelling about 2020 is a valuable contribution to the discourse. President Donald Trump spent part of his Thursday, as he typically does, screaming on the Internet, this time about a Washington Post report regarding his in person screaming. The Post reported on Thursday that Trump yelled at Defense Secretary little boy Pete Hegseth during a Cabinet meeting held at Camp David last week. The President was allegedly demanding answers relating to the reporting of munitions shortages that have impacted Trump's war on Iran. As we mentioned on the show earlier this week, the US has run extremely low on surface to surface guided missiles and and missile interceptors as a result of the war in Iran. White House Press Secretary Caroline Levitt denied the allegations. But in response to the Post reporting, Trump posted today on Truth Social that, quote, the leakers of these treasonous statements are being hunted down. Long term jail sentences will be sought, which does not imply the reporting was false. Exactly. But don't worry. Trump later posted, quote, I am extremely happy with the job that Pete Hegseth is doing and that everything in Iran is going just fine. Speaking of the war, Oman and Iran are attempting to negotiate terms to reopen the Strait of Hormuz to shipping for a fee. You know the strait that was open with no fees before the war began.
[03:54]
A
Now therefore, be it resolved by this Parliament as follows.
[04:01]
B
We seek the resolution of Parliament that Parliament supports the decision of His Excellency the President of the Republic of Uganda
[04:10]
A
to deploy the Uganda People's Defence Forces in the Gaza Strip for a peacekeeping
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B
mission in accordance with the Constitution of
[04:18]
A
Uganda and section 38 of Uganda People's Defence Forces Act.
[04:23]
B
I beg to move. Uganda's Defence Minister sought and won parliamentary approval today to deploy troops to Gaza. The successful motion is Uganda's first public indication that it's willing to join the International Stabilization Force. The force was announced by Trump's Board of Peace earlier this year to secure the territory following the Israel Hamas war. It was not immediately clear why Uganda agreed to deploy in Gaza or if there was a quid pro quo involved. However, the Defense Minister cited Uganda's military capabilities stemming from its peacekeeping deployments in countries such as Somalia. Here on Water Day, we like to bring you the most important news of the moment. So grab a spoon and your milk of choice, because today that means cereal. W.K. kellogg, the company behind Froot Loops and Apple Jacks, said it will remove artificial colors from all its cereals by the end of 2026. And guess what? The change comes a year earlier than the company's original commitment. Okay, overachievers. The company has faced pressure for years to remove artificial ingredients from its cereals, which it has already done in other countries like Canada. That pressure has grown under Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. Not to mention Kellogg signed an agreement with Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton last August saying it would eliminate toxic dyes from its cereals. Kellogg said it will use fruit and vegetable based juices to color their cereals because no one wants their Froot Loops to be taupe. And that's the news. Let's talk about maga. It's a tough time to be a fervent supporter of President Donald Trump. I mean, first you're a fervent supporter of President Donald Trump, but also, you're probably getting pretty lonely. Support for Trump is dropping everywhere, with Quinnipiac measuring his approval at just 32% at the end of July. But how bad could it really be? Pretty bad. Even in ruby red Mississippi, Trump has an approval rating of 46%, a record low for the state. That's according to new data from Civics. So what went wrong? If you're bow tie enthusiast Tucker Carlson, the answer is that Trump betrayed what MAGA truly stood for, which just so happens to be whatever Tucker thinks MAGA stood for. In fact, he argued in a live stream Wednesday night that both parties have turned against the American people. And he has some thoughts on what would make life better. A vision, you could call it.
[06:45]
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We thought it'd be useful just to set down the goals of whatever comes next and it'll find all kinds of expressions and hopefully it's better than what we have. But we know it'll be different from what we have because what we have literally doesn't work. It can't protect itself from the greatest threats in human history.
[07:04]
B
Tucker didn't say in this live stream that he's going to run for president in 2028, but a lot of people think he should, including some of Trump's most prominent former allies. So ask the bulwarks Will Summer what's really behind Tucker Carlson's long rant? Will welcome back to Water Day.
[07:21]
A
Hey, thanks for having me.
[07:23]
B
So on Wednesday night, Tucker Carlson livestreamed for over an hour about his vision for America. He did not formally announce a presidential run. He said he does not want to run for president, but he basically unveiled a campaign platform. Can you quickly walk us through Tucker's wonderful ideas for America?
[07:42]
A
Yeah, I mean, basically, I think we could sum it up as him saying essentially, like, you know, everything sucks and, you know, I'm the only one who can fix it. I mean, he had 10 words that he said, america has to be. And so it's optimistic, decent, sovereign, beautiful.
[07:57]
B
Yeah, yeah.
[07:58]
A
Who could disagree with that? And then he would dive in and say, like, okay, sovereign is about not just borders, but also, you know, banning foreign lobbyists and even, like, getting rid of debt ceiling, seemingly, even for people. He didn't exactly get into specifics, but it really looked like a campaign platform, even if he didn't say explicitly that he's running for president.
[08:18]
B
Yeah. The thing that struck me is that he said a lot of things like optimistic and beautiful, but those were all euphemisms. Like, optimistic is a euphemism for everybody needs to have kids. Beautiful is a euphemism for violent crime, makes everything ugly, and it should be illegal to make ugly buildings. What else stuck out to you?
[08:39]
A
I felt like he was really positioning himself at the center of a lot of kind of like, these populist revolts we're seeing. Whether it's about these flock surveillance cameras or, you know, if, like, if you go on TikTok, there's a lot of people who are like, the data centers are buying up the farmland near me, and it's like, well, is that illegal, per se? Or they're upset about solar panels, things like that. And I mean, the one that struck me was he really got into sort of like this. This idea that we're losing the American heartland to these things like the surveillance cameras or the data centers, and this idea that farms should be sacrosanct, sort of this idea. And it's very Trumpian thing as well, that this American golden age has been lost.
[09:16]
B
Yeah. And I have seen the Flock surveillance thing all over the place. That has been something. I think Carlson is correctly picking up on, a bipartisan concern that doesn't really seem to run conservative or liberal because I've seen people on blue sky talking about it. Can you just very quickly explain what flock surveillance cameras are doing and where they are?
[09:38]
A
So these are these cameras that are typically set up alongside roadways by this company called flock, and then they can be used. They track license plates and car movement, and so they can be used by local police departments. I think in the best case scenario is to say, okay, and then the criminal committed this crime, and then we track them to where they were. But I think in practice in the Washington Post and some other outlets have done a lot of reporting on this. These are, like, insanely abusive in terms of surveillance. The Washington Post had stories about cops being like, that's a hot lady. I'd like to know where she lives or I'd like to track her movements.
[10:09]
B
People stalking former partners. Like it's being used in the way that you kind of think the worst people would use something like this.
[10:15]
A
Exactly. And so there's this kind of broader sort of revolt against this idea of this surveillance. And I think Tucker, who's a very savvy guy about sort of what the next issue is going to be, he's, he's saying, you know, we got to get rid of these cameras.
[10:29]
B
So Carlson's livestream came a few days after he hosted other notable ex MAGA figures at his home. Former Georgia Representative Marjorie Taylor Greene posted a photo on Twitter showing Kentucky Representative Thomas Massie and ex national security official Joe Kent, among others, and writing of Trump quote, he's betrayed us all. So can you remind us all how they fell out of favor with the president?
[10:53]
A
Sure. So, you know, Thomas Massie has always been kind of a contrarian libertarian member of Congress, but him and Marjorie Taylor Greene was obviously much more devoted to Trump in the past, was a QAnon believer in all this stuff. The pair of them really fell out with Trump over their efforts to get the Epstein files released. They were, you know, one of the handful of Republicans who were in favor of that. And Trump essentially ran Marjorie Taylor Greene out of office and successfully primaried Thomas Massie as well. Now, Joe Kent is another interesting case. This is a guy who is very much in kind of like the Tucker Carlson, you know, more isolationist, more Israel critical mold and yet he managed to be the US Count terrorism chief in this new administration up until he resigned in protest over the war with Iran. So you have a lot of people who were sort of Trump allies to various degrees who have now been cast out of MAGA world or have quit and have have united in whatever this new effort is going to look like.
[11:49]
B
If you, like me, do not feel bad for people who supported Donald Trump and then got shafted by him. Stick around. We'll get back to my conversation with Will Sommer in a moment. In the meantime, make sure to subscribe, leave a 5 star review on Spotify and Apple podcasts, watch us on YouTube and share with your friends. More to come after some ads. What a day is brought to you by Nutrafol. Summer is full of vacations, weekend getaways, and spending more time outdoors. And when you're packing for a trip, the last thing you want is to be worrying about your hair. Nutrafol is the number one dermatologist recommended hair growth supplement brand and it's the one hair growth supplement brand personally used by dermatologists. Nutrafol's hair growth supplements are peer reviewed, NSF certified for sport and clinically tested. Let your hair be one less thing to worry about. See visibly thicker, Stronger, faster Growing hair in three to six months with Nutrafol For a limited time, Nutrafol is offering our listeners $10 off your first month subscription and free shipping when you visit nutrafol.com and enter promo code day10 that's nutrafool.com spelled n u t r-a f o l.com promo code day10 what a day is brought to you by Fast Growing Trees. Did you know? Fast Growing Trees is America's largest and most trusted online nursery with thousands of trees and plants and over 2 million happy customers. They have all the plants your yard or home needs, including fruit trees, privacy trees, flowering trees, shrubs and houseplants, all grown with care and guaranteed to arrive healthy. It's like your local nursery, but anywhere you live with more plants than you'll find anywhere else. Whatever you're looking for, Fast Growing Trees helps you find options that actually work for your climate, space and lifestyle. Fast Growing Trees makes it easy to get your dream yard. Just click, order, grow and get healthy, thriving plants delivered to your door. Their Alive and Thrive guarantee promises that your plants arrive happy and healthy. No green thumb required, just quality plants you can count on. Plus get ongoing support from trained plant experts who can help you plan your landscape, choose the right plants and learn how to care for them every step of the way. My husband and I love giving our friends and family gifts from Fast Growing trees. They always arrive happy, healthy and ready for years of growing. Right now they have great deals on planting essentials, up to half off on select plants and listeners to our show get 20% off their first purchase when using the code WAD at checkout. That's an additional 20% off. Better plants and better growing at fastgrowingtrees.com using the code WAD at checkout fastgrowingtrees.com code WAD now is the perfect time to plant. Let's grow together. Use WAD to Save today. Offer is valid for a limited time. Terms and conditions may apply.
[14:18]
C
Hi, I'm Alex Wagner. I do not need to tell you that being an American right now is a wild ride. But as a longtime journalist, I am not interested in the noise or the fear mongering. I'm interested in the stories at the heart of the headlines. That is why every week on my show Runaway Country, I'm joined by folks in the middle of the crossfire, from disillusioned Maha moms to newly fired immigration judges to Epstein victims themselves, to understand what it means to live through this political chaos as an actual human being. And now I'm excited to tell you that Runaway country is available ad free to Friends of the Pod subscribers. Friends of the Pod is a subscription that supports the work Crooked does as an independent media company and gives you a ton of great bonus and ad free content. With the midterms approaching, you are going to need more content to keep you sane. And now you can find Runaway country right there. Subscribe now and click crooked.com friends.
[15:17]
B
Let's get back to my conversation with Will Sommer. Back in July, Carlson told the Columbia Journalism Review, quote, there's going to be a third party and I'm going to do everything I can to bring it about. Now, third parties don't really work in the United States, and in my view, the best way a third party can work, and by best I mean like, most effective way for it to work, is to try to get one of the two main parties to do something they want. You see this from left leaning parties and you see this from the Libertarian Party, for example. So why does Tucker Carlson actually want to start a third party?
[15:54]
A
Yeah, you're right. I mean, third parties don't have a great track record in the US in terms of like actually achieving power. I mean, typically they would just be siphoning off whatever. They're kind of like ideologically aligned. Major party is. I think there's a couple things going on here. Number one, I think Tucker Carlson was really close with J.D. vance and the war with Iran has kind of soured him on Vance for now. I think there's this sense of if JD Won't do it right, maybe I'll have to do it myself and run for president instead. I think he feels kind of spurned by Trump and the administration more broadly. And then this is a guy, he has a big audience. I think he has a big ego. It seems like he's probably thinking, maybe I should just run for president myself.
[16:36]
B
So underlying all of this is Tucker's idea that Trump failed MAGA by going against his America first promises, mishandling the Epstein files, going to war with Iran. And that's kind of the idea that you get from Marjorie Taylor Greene and from a host of these other people who all think like MAGA is a real thing and Trump has messed with it or betrayed it. But Trump has repeatedly says he's maga. Whatever MAGA is. That's him. And I agree with that. And I've been making that argument now for, like, 11 years, roughly, that whatever Trump says, that is what MAGA is. So who do you think is right here?
[17:13]
A
I think this can be kind of ideologically slippery, but as you said, I think MAGA is essentially whatever Donald Trump says it is. And there's very little ideological consistency going on with the Trump administration. It's sort of whatever's convenient. Whoever talked to Trump last, who, whoever he's mad at, whatever. And I think that's what's been driving this split between maga, which is essentially whatever Trump tells you to do or tells you to believe, and America first, which is how Marjorie Taylor Greene, I think, would say, essentially she was a true believer in Trumpism, whatever that was supposed to be in 2016 or 2020. And now they're kind of trying to what Trump promised them, they're trying to actually fulfill.
[17:52]
B
So what do you think? Is Tucker Carlson actually going to run for president in 2028, you know, after
[17:58]
A
this monologue or this speech? I think he will, obviously. You know, it's still a few years away, but I think he is this sort of read to me like a presidential announcement speech. I think he's laying it out. I will say he didn't mention a lot of his crazier ideas. Independents might not like, like the demonism, the demonology, and all of these other kind of wackier ideas.
[18:19]
B
Also, his views on minorities or women or anything like that, that's what got me about the use of euphemisms, is like this idea that who could object to beauty, who could object to sovereignty. But one, he and Nick Fuentes are agreeing about how the real problem are women and that there's no such thing as a happy, married, liberal woman. Like, again, ideological slipperiness is a theme for Tucker Carlson. So I think my next thought is, like, how do you think he would do? Because what we've seen with Thomas Massie and a host of other people is that there actually aren't that many America Firsters. I mean, they're very prevalent on Twitter. But, like, in the actual voting public, there are lots of people who voted for Trump and are just kind of fine with whatever he does, or they're not fine with whatever he does, and they just would vote for a Democrat.
[19:11]
A
Well, you know, it's interesting. I mean, I think Trump's new lows in the polls, I think we're around 32% now in terms of the approval rating. I think that does suggest that there's some amount of Trump supporters who are feeling discontented or people who had voted for Trump. Now I think if Trump ran again, they vote for him against a Democrat, probably. But is all that support going to transfer to JD Vance or Marco Rubio or whoever, especially if even Republicans continue to be unhappy with this administration? I mean, probably not. And so I think Tucker Carlson is, is recognizing whether it's I'm gonna talk about the Epstein class, I'm gonna talk about the data centers, these things that kind of split people away from Trump. I think he's rightly recognizing that there's gonna be this pool of voters that you can capture.
[19:52]
B
Will, as always, thank you so much for joining me.
[19:54]
A
Thanks for having me.
[19:56]
B
That was my conversation with Will Sommer, senior reporter at the Bulwark. We'll link to his newsletter in the show notes before we go, if you haven't gotten tickets for Crooked Con yet, there are some exciting new faces joining us at Crooked we believe the answer to right wing authoritarianism is a big, welcoming, fun pro democracy movement. So we've invited some of the biggest, funniest voices online to all day CrookedCon. At CrookedCon you'll have the chance to meet creators and new media personalities who make sense of the news with humor and hot takes. They'll be bopping around the Washington Convention center, hosting happy hours, Q&As and workshops for attendees. They'll also be making content because what happens at CrookedCon ends up online. For every political nerd to see, check out which creators are joining us so far@crookedcon.com and grab your tickets today. See you in D.C. that's all for today. If you like the show, make sure you subscribe, leave a review, check out new images of the surface of the sun and tell your friends to listen. And if you're into reading and not just about how scientists in Maui, Hawaii were able to capture the closest and best images of the sun's surface we've ever been able to see. Like me, what a Day is also a nightly newsletter. Check it out and subscribe@crooked.com subscribe I'm Jane Coston and if you want to experience the surface of the sun, I recommend just going outside. What a Day is a production of Crooked Media. Our show is produced by Kaitlyn Plummer, Emily Foer, Erica Morrison and Adrienne Hill. Our team includes Haley Jones, Greg Walters, Matt Berg, Joseph Dutra, Johanna Case, and Desmond Taylor. Our music is by Kyle Murdoch and Jordan Cantor. We had help today from the asu. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East.
[21:34]
C
Hi, I'm Alex Wagner. I do not need to tell you that being an American right now is a wild ride. But as a longtime journalist, I am not interested in the noise or the fear mongering. I'm interested in the stories at the heart of the headlines. That is why every week on my show Runaway Country, I'm joined by folks in in the middle of the crossfire. From disillusioned Maha moms to newly fired immigration judges to Epstein victims themselves to understand what it means to live through this political chaos as an actual human being. And now I'm excited to tell you that Runaway country is available ad free to Friends of the POD subscribers. Friends of the Pod is a subscription that supports the work Crooked does as an independent media company and gives you a ton of great bonus and ad free content. With the midterms approaching, you are going to need more content to keep you sane. And now you can find Runaway country right there. Subscribe now@crooked.com friends.