Jonathan Karl (3:01)

The President claims that Thanksgiving costs are down 25%. I mean, does he know that's not true?

Kevin Hassett (3:07)

Well, if you look at Walmart and the few places that put out their prices.

Jonathan Karl (3:12)

Wait, wait a minute. I got to stop. Because the Walmart comparison's, like, not. I mean, Walmart had a Thanksgiving package last. Got a Thanksgiving package this year. The one this year contains much less than what the one last year took. So that's why the price is less.

Jane Costen (3:27)

But Hassett didn't take the actual cost of actual groceries or smaller grocery packages for a major American holiday for an answer because of the previous administration.

Kevin Hassett (3:37)

I really don't, don't understand where you're going in the sense that Joe Biden gave us. Joe Biden gave us 20%.

Jonathan Karl (3:43)

He's not president.

Jane Costen (3:44)

Donald Trump's president. Great. So here's my conversation with Tim Miller of the Bulwark on who really won the shutdown and what Democrats should do next. Tim Miller, welcome back to what a Day.

Tim Miller (3:55)

What up, Jane? Good to be back.

Jane Costen (3:57)

So you had a medium warm pot take on the government shutdown, namely that Democrats won it. Two questions, why and how.

Tim Miller (4:07)

Great questions, I think about this kind of like a poker game that they're playing. And the Democrats went into the shutdown with, like, basically no political power and no chips. Donald Trump was running roughshod over the government. And the Democrats said, okay, well, this is the one. This is like, we're going all in. This is our one play that we have to make here. It was a pretty risky gamble. Some people got into this thinking the end game was going to be something to the effect of, like, Donald Trump has been slayed or everyone gets free health care now. And it's like neither of those things were actually on the table as possibilities for outcomes. Now we're looking at it here, I guess a week or so after they folded. Donald Trump's in his worst political position. He's been in a long time. He is embroiled in an Epstein scandal. And meanwhile, people's lives got tangibly better. Like, there were people that were gonna lose their snap funding over this fight, and there were people that got fired that are getting their jobs back, who were riffed from the government. Democrats are in stronger political position. They walked away from the table. For me, that was a win, wasn't amazing. Donald Trump is still the president. Republicans still control everything. But it was a very small win and I think additional fighting was not gonna yield any better of a results than they got.

Jane Costen (5:19)

So now that the shutdown is over, we're still in the midst of Democrat on Democrat squabbling which has basically been just all Democrats do. They love a squabble. But I do agree with you that like this administration was not gonna be like, okay, okay, we'll extend the Affordable Care act subsidies. Like this administration was great. Russell Vote is going to cancel everything and fire everybody. So all of this is to say, what do Democrats need to do right now to come together in this moment?

Tim Miller (5:50)

Look, I guess I just wanna start this by saying I agree with people that are like, I want Democrats to fight harder. I'm with you. A little bit of squabbling is okay. What I don't think is useful is just like petty whining constantly and losing focus on the actual threats. And so one example of that over the weekend I saw that Gene Shaheen was speaking at some New Hampshire Democratic function and she's getting heckled and shouted down. Now Jean Shaheen is retiring, okay? She is a retiring senator and that is an open seat next year that is critical. Democrats win. I just think that if you're of the camp that you're like, I want Democrats to fight harder and I think it's really important to take down the Republicans cuz they're so bad and scary and authoritarian. Then you should heckle the Republicans in New Hampshire. Like heckling a retiring senator might make you feel good and might meet some of your emotional needs. Like, which is okay, I have emotional needs to yell at people. I just do that on X, you know. And so I think that the Democrats should unite around the fact that they gave Donald Trump an opportunity to lower people's healthcare costs. He refused to do it. Everybody's pissed about how much everything is costing and how he hasn't solved the affordability crisis. People are pissed about the high cost and low quality of their healthcare. People are pissed about the fact that Donald Trump is covering up his involvement with Jeffrey Epstein in the Epstein files. And Democrats should talk about that a lot and use the what seemed to be a little bit of momentum from the elections a couple weeks ago and from this fight and from Epstein and use that momentum to continue to put pressure on Donald Trump so that he has less political power and less ability to do the authoritarian stuff he wants to do.

Jane Costen (7:33)

You argued also that the end of the shutdown led to Democrats in the House Oversight Committee releasing more of Epstein's correspondence, including emails that referenced President Trump, lots of emails referencing President Trump. Where do you think Democrats should go next on the Epstein investigation, and why?

Tim Miller (7:47)

Yeah, well, look, I mean, you're starting to see, like, a lot of Republicans feel the pressure to fold on this as more information has come out with these subpoenaed files from the Epstein estate that came from the Oversight Committee in the House. And so I think that the Democrats should really be turning their attention to John Thune and putting pressure on Republicans in the Senate and taking. There's one of my senators from Louisiana, basically useless. John Kennedy has basically implied that he thinks that they should be released. This has not been somebody that has broken from Trump really at all. And so I think that the Democrats should be putting pressure on the Senate to do that. Who knows what is in that material? And then I think they need to be preparing for hopefully winning that House back. Those House races are extremely important. This redistricting fight is extremely important, because if they take back the gavel next year and they have a speaker and they control the House Oversight Committee, then they can start subpoenaing people themselves to come testify on this.

Jane Costen (8:47)

In February, March, there was this whole vibe shift thing going on, especially I think, partly a media creation, but partly a real thing that made it seem as if Trump was some unstoppable force because of a 1.5% victory in the popular vote. And now it feels to me like if you're seeing all the fighting going on among Republicans over, like, antisemitism and racism and like, the future of the party in America, first, it feels like the wheels are starting to come off the MAGA expression. How should those of us who want the wheels to come off the MAGA express? How should we respond to that?

Tim Miller (9:22)

Just a modicum of happiness is allowed in this world, I guess. Look, this goes back to my original point about how I think spun correctly, talked about correctly, the Democrats gained some modest ground politically with the shutdown fight, and they should pocket those winnings and move on to the next battle, which now is Epstein, and there'll be another battle after that. And part of the reason for that is that Donald Trump this year has been able to do a lot of the stuff that he's done because of that vibe shift. Right? Like, it isn't. It wasn't like, they had overwhelming votes to pass a lot of new laws that gave Donald Trump new powers. It's like Donald Trump asserted that he had powers. He bullied universities, he bullied law firms, he bullied media companies. And a lot of them were folding because there was this sense in the world that Trump was ascendant and he was gonna use his powers to go. And so it's best to just get on board if that shift changes and if people start to think, oh, man, this guy's at like 36% in the polls, he's having defections from his own side, whether that be Marjorie Taylor Greene or some people in the more of the MAGA media space. And wait a minute, Democrats might be in charge of the House and have subpoena power next year and be able to subpoena me and my company. There's a lot of things out there in the world that start to change, right? Like people start to get a lot more courage. And you see it in various little ways. We're seeing a little bit in this redistricting fight where like in Ohio and Indiana, some of these Republican states, like, looked at that election a couple weeks ago and were like, wait a minute, I don't want to redistrict my seat to be from a seat that I won last time by 15 to being a seat that I won by eight because I might lose now. I don't know if I want to do this. An attitude shift we haven't seen yet that I would like to see is maybe people that are doing illegal stuff on behalf of the Department of Homeland Security and on behalf of the Trump administration might start to think, wait a minute, there will be other people in power at some point in the future. Maybe I shouldn't do this illegal stuff on behalf of a lame duck flailing president. And so to me, that is why the top goal, if you're a Democrat, should not be trying to pre fight the 2028 primary right now, because there'll be plenty of time for that in late 2027 and instead try to continue to put political pressure on Donald Trump in areas where he is weak, like the economy, like the cost of healthcare, like Epstein, so that potentially we can see his numbers continue to erode more.

Jane Costen (11:50)

Tim, as always, thank you for joining me.

Tim Miller (11:53)

Anytime, Jane.

Jane Costen (11:54)

That was my conversation with the Bulwarks. Tim Miller. We'll link to his work in the show notes. We'll get to more of the news in a moment. But if you like the show, make sure to subscribe. Leave a five star review on Apple Podcasts. Watch us on YouTube and share with your friends. More to come after some ads. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Yes, it's getting cold and getting darker earlier too, and the changing of the seasons can be tough on our physical, emotional and mental health. But we have the power to do something about that with support. BetterHelp therapists work according to a strict code of conduct and are fully licensed in the US BetterHelp does the initial matching work for you so you can focus on your therapy goals. A short questionnaire helps identify your needs and preferences, and our 12 years of experience and industry leading match fulfillment rate means we typically get it right the first time. With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is one of the world's largest online therapy platforms, Having served over 5 million people globally this month. Don't wait to reach out. Whether you're checking in on a friend or reaching out to a therapist yourself, BetterHelp makes it easier to take that first step. Our listeners get 10% off their first month@betterhelp.com wade that's betterhelp.com waad this is.

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Jane Costen (14:14)

Here's what else we're following today.

Bill Cassidy (14:16)

Head of Lines.

Jeanne Shaheen (14:20)

It's a sweet spot. Lower premiums help with the deductible, making the patient the informed consumer. The President and I are united. We should all be united about that.

Jane Costen (14:30)

Louisiana Republican Senator Bill Cassidy says he's, quote, in communication with the White House about a plan to make healthcare more affordable.

Tim Miller (14:37)

Great.

Jane Costen (14:38)

So now we've gone from concepts of a plan to communication about a plan. Now that the government shutdown is over, Republicans say they'll negotiate with Democrats on whether to extend Covid era tax credits that help tens of millions of Americans afford health care. But coming to an agreement before the subsidies expire at the end of the year will be difficult. Last week, President Trump said that instead of paying insurance companies, he wants the money to, quote, be paid directly to the people of our country so that they can buy their own health care, which, if you think about that for 10 seconds, is stupid. Cassidy gave that idea a little more context in an interview with Face the Nation on CBS that aired on Sunday.

Jeanne Shaheen (15:15)

The president is proposing that we take the $26 billion that would be going to insurance companies if we just do a straight out extension. And by the way, 20% of that 26 billion, 20% will go for profit and administrative overhead, give it directly to the American people in an account in which 100% of the money is used for them to purchase health care on their own terms.

Jane Costen (15:38)

Sure. New Hampshire Democratic Senator Jeanne Shaheen told Face the Nation that while implementing significant changes in the first year will be hard, Democrats need to work with their Republican colleagues on finding a health care resolution.

Jeanne Shaheen (15:50)

It should be a bill to extend those premium tax credits because as everybody has talked about, there is real urgency to get this done and if we don't address it, then people are going to see huge rate increases. So we can work together, we can extend the credits, but we probably can't implement significant reforms that Senator Cassidy was talking about in the timeframe that we've got.

Jane Costen (16:16)

Shaheen was one of eight Senate Democrats that sided with Republicans in the vote to allow the Senate to move forward with reopening the government. The Senate is set to vote in mid December on extending the enhanced tax credits. Department of Homeland Security officials confirmed that federal agents have descended on Charlotte, North Carolina as part of President Trump's crackdown on illegal immigration. In a post on Twitter, U.S. customs and Border Patrol Commander Gregory Bovino said that at least 81 people had been arrested in the city on Saturday, allegedly on a combination of significant criminal and immigration history. Defending the action, Assistant Homeland security secretary Tricia McLaughlin said in a statement, quote, we are surging DHS law enforcement to Charlotte to ensure sure Americans are safe and public safety threats are removed. Yet crime is down in the city this year through August compared with the same months in 2024, according to the consulting firm AH Danalytics. But President Trump's administration has seized upon the fatal stabbing of Ukrainian refugee Irina Zarudska on a Charlotte light rail train to argue that Democratic led cities fail to protect residents. A man with a lengthy criminal record who was, it should be noted, not an immigrant, has been charged with a woman's murder. CBS reports that New Orleans is next on Trump's list with up to 200 federal agents expected to be deployed there. Only a few months ago, Georgia Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene and President Trump were politically inseparable. Here's Trump praising her at a White House event back in March of this year.

Jonathan Karl (17:47)

A quiet woman, but underneath that quiet facade, she's a tiger. Marjorie Taylor Greene, highly respected woman, I tell you.

Jane Costen (17:58)

Thanks, Marjorie.

Tim Miller (17:59)

Great woman, quiet.

Jane Costen (18:03)

But lately that highly respected tiger has changed her stripes and she is not happy with the president. Greene has criticized Trump's foreign policy focus handling of healthcare and pushed for more Epstein files to be released. And her criticism seems to have gotten under his very, very, very thin skin. Trump took the Truth Social on Saturday to threaten her with the possibility of being primaried and labeled her, quote, Marjorie Traitor Green. Here she is responding to the traitor remark on CNN's State of the Union on Sunday.

Marjorie Taylor Greene (18:32)

The most hurtful thing he said, which is absolutely untrue, is he called me a traitor. And that is, that is so extremely wrong. And those are the types of words used that can radicalize people against me and put my life in danger.

Jane Costen (18:50)

CNN's Dana Bash pushed Greene on her own rich history of politically charged rhetoric and MTG did something unheard of in MAGA circles.

Marjorie Taylor Greene (18:59)

Dana, I think that's fair criticism and I would like to say humbly, I'm sorry for taking part in the toxic politics. It's very bad for our country.

Jane Costen (19:12)

She humbly apologized. Is that allowed? Where is Marjorie Taylor Greene and what has the deep state done with her? Greene has recently said a different, more conciliatory tone. That softer rhetoric sparked speculation that she might be eyeing a presidential run, a rumor her boyfriend, conservative reporter Brian Glenn, later denied. So Greene's new comments are par for the course, a notably brown course according to Trump, who called her on True Social quote, Marjorie Taylor Brown because, quote, green grass turns brown when it begins to rot. And they say he's lost his touch. That was Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky announcing that his government has prepared a new gas deal with Greece. The deal signed on Sunday is part of a strategy to keep Ukraine's energy grid afloat as Russian strikes threaten winter supplies. Zelenskyy said Ukraine will import natural gas from Greece this winter to replace energy production lost to Russian strikes. Greece is Zelenskyy's first stop in a multination European tour to bolster Ukraine's energy security and deepen its defense ties. The Greek deal creates a new supply route and helps cover over $2 billion in winter gas imports financed through Ukrainian funds and EU backed loans. Zelenskyy heads to France and Spain next for talks on strengthening Ukraine's air defenses, combat aviation and wider security cooperation. Kyiv is also pursuing long term energy agreements with Poland and Azerbaijan. Ukraine's security chief Rustem Umarov, said he's been in talks with help from Turkey and the UAE to restart prisoner exchange negotiations with Russia to bring 1200 prisoners home. He said that as a result of the talks, the relevant parties agreed to activate the istanbul agreements, a 2022 deal that sets the rules for large organized prisoner swaps. Kyiv hopes to return the captives home by the holidays. Nearly 6,000 Ukrainians have been freed in earlier swaps and that's the news. That's all for today. If you like the show, make sure you subscribe, leave a review, Contemplate the convicted scammer who may not have just scammed JP Morgan for 170 million, but also gotten the massive bank to pay for fancy meals and skincare products while the federal government was trying her for fraud. And tell your friends to listen. And if you're into reading and not just about Charlie Jovice, whose fraudulent startup was purchased by JP Morgan before the bank realized her customers were largely fake. But during her trial, she won a ruling requiring JP Morgan to pay her legal fees, which cost something to with do the tune of $60 million like me. What a Day is also a nightly newsletter. Check it out and subscribe@cricket.com subscribe I'm Jayne Coastin and honestly, if you're that good at scamming, you'd probably be really good at doing the job you were faking in the first place. What a Day is a production of Crooked Media. It's recorded and mixed by Desmond Taylor. Our associate producers are Emily Foer and Chris Allport. Our video editor is Joseph Dutra. Our video producer is Johanna Case. We had production help today from Greg Walters, Matt Berg, Kaitlyn Plummer, Tyler Hill and Ethan Oberman. Our senior producer is Erica Morrison and our senior vice president of news and politics is Adrienne Hill. We had help today from the Associated Press. Our theme music is by Colin Gilliard and Kashaka. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America. East.

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