Podcast Summary: "What Are the Symptoms of a Dictatorship?"

Podcast: What A Day
Host: Jane Coaston
Produced by: Crooked Media
Release Date: November 16, 2024

Introduction

In the episode titled "What Are the Symptoms of a Dictatorship?", hosts Max Fisher and Erin Ryan delve into the pressing question: How will we know if Trump is actually endangering our democracy? Through a comprehensive discussion, they explore the subtle and overt actions that could signal a shift towards authoritarianism, drawing parallels with global examples and providing expert insights to help listeners remain vigilant.

Defining the Threat: Trump and Democratic Erosion

The conversation opens with Max Fisher referencing a [00:17] clip of Sean Hannity attempting to reassure listeners that Donald Trump does not intend to become a dictator. However, the hosts express skepticism, pointing out the inconsistencies and concerning policies Trump has advocated.

Erin Ryan highlights, "Trump mostly promised a more extreme version of his first term, which was very bad, but didn't end democracy as we know it." Max Fisher concurs, noting that even Trump's attempts to overturn the 2020 election failed to dismantle democratic processes entirely, though concerns remain.

Identifying Authoritarian Indicators

Fisher and Ryan introduce the concept that authoritarianism doesn't always manifest through overt actions like military coups but can instead emerge gradually through systemic changes. They discuss the importance of recognizing [02:00] subtle shifts that might erode democratic foundations without immediate drastic alterations.

Tom Papinski, a political scientist at Cornell, is brought into the conversation to shed light on these nuanced changes. He emphasizes that "ordinary citizens are going to have to become very savvy at identifying when the barest foundations of democracy have been affected" [07:21].

Strategies for Undermining Democracy

The hosts outline several alarming strategies Trump has proposed, which could pave the way for authoritarian rule:

• Control Over the Justice Department: Trump has promised to take personal control, potentially directing it to prosecute political rivals [03:22].

• Media Regulation: Threatening punitive regulations on media companies that report unfavorably on him [03:22].

• Use of Military Against Domestic Opponents: Pledging to deploy the military against perceived threats within the country [03:22].

• Civil Servant Purges: Plans to remove tens of thousands of civil servants from independent agencies and replace them with loyalists [03:22].

Sean Hannity's clips reinforce these points, demonstrating the rhetoric aimed at justifying such measures [00:17], [05:42], [11:31].

Comparative Analysis: Global Authoritarian Regimes

Drawing parallels with international figures like Viktor Orbán of Hungary and leaders in Turkey and Russia, the hosts illustrate how gradual and legally veiled methods can dismantle democratic institutions without overt displays of force.

Sean Hannity’s endorsement of Orbán underscores the admiration some American conservatives may have for established authoritarian leaders [05:42].

Tom Papinski explains that in these countries, authoritarianism often starts with "national conservatism," where the government uses its power to reshape culture and society [19:28]. This involves enforcing an official ideology and using legal and financial tools to manipulate institutions subtly [09:53], [10:40].

Mechanisms of Institutional Compliance

A critical concept discussed is "institutional compliance," where leaders like Trump exert pressure through vague threats rather than direct orders, leading institutions to self-regulate in ways that favor authoritarian agendas.

Tom Papinski elaborates, "they are using the tools of the legal system and the mechanisms of finance and taxation to encourage institutions to behave in certain ways" [09:53].

Examples include:

• Regulating Social Media: Trump’s administration pressured platforms like Facebook to alter their algorithms to favor pro-Trump content [08:10].

• Educational Policies: Laws such as Florida's ban on promoting social activism in colleges, echoing Hungary's actions against universities [10:56], [11:10].

Max Fisher highlights Trump's threats to institutions like the Department of Education as part of a broader agenda to consolidate power [19:02].

Potential Pathways to Authoritarianism

The conversation outlines various pathways through which Trump could further undermine democratic institutions:

• Mass Deportations: Utilizing immigration policies as a tool to exert control and justify increased governmental power [13:27].

• Election Manipulation: Installing election denialists in key positions to undermine electoral integrity [21:07].

• Federal Control Over Independent Bodies: Attempts to influence or control organizations like the Federal Reserve and the Department of Education [21:40], [20:24].

Project 2025 is mentioned as a plan to label left-wing groups as terrorist organizations, further criminalizing dissent [22:32].

Expert Insights: Recognizing and Resisting Authoritarianism

Tom Papinski offers valuable advice on identifying early signs of authoritarianism, emphasizing the importance of staying informed and vigilant. He notes that changes are often "subtle regulatory changes" affecting unions, educational institutions, and the marketplace of ideas [12:55].

The hosts discuss actionable steps individuals and institutions can take to resist these erosive tactics, such as maintaining institutional independence and fostering environments where diverse ideas can thrive without fear of retribution.

Conclusion: The Importance of Vigilance and Collective Action

Max Fisher and Erin Ryan conclude by reiterating the significance of recognizing gradual shifts towards authoritarianism. They stress that while the transformation may be slow and often imperceptible, collective awareness and resistance can prevent the erosion of democratic values.

Tom Papinski's perspective that authoritarian changes are "mostly boring and tolerable" [24:31] serves as a cautionary reminder that complacency can lead to the unintentional acceptance of diminishing freedoms.

The episode ultimately serves as a call to action for listeners to remain engaged, informed, and proactive in defending democratic institutions against subtle but significant threats.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Sean Hannity: "Under no circumstances you are promising America tonight you would never abuse power as retribution against anybody." [00:26]

• Max Fisher: "Even when he tried to overturn the 2020 election, democracy kept chugging along." [01:42]

• Tom Papinski: "You might not know. You may not have a single indicator that is able to tell you that we have crossed some line." [07:21]

• Sean Hannity: "I will direct the Department of Justice to pursue federal civil rights cases against schools that continue to engage in racial discrimination." [11:44]

• Tom Papinski: "What you see really is nothing for most people's daily lives. The changes are either zero or very minor." [24:04]

This episode of What A Day provides a thorough exploration of the subtle mechanisms through which democratic institutions can be undermined. By drawing on expert insights and real-world examples, Fisher and Ryan equip listeners with the knowledge to identify and resist potential authoritarian shifts within the United States.