Podcast Title: What A Day
Host: Jane Coaston
Episode Title: What It's Like To Have An Empathetic Leader
Release Date: June 25, 2025

Introduction: Rethinking Leadership

In this episode of What A Day, host Jane Coaston delves into the essence of national leadership, contrasting it with the often oversimplified perception portrayed by figures like former President Donald Trump. Jane sets the stage by highlighting the complexities of running a country, emphasizing that it involves managing a vast apparatus, military, and international relations—all while navigating crises. This intricate balancing act often leads to leaders evolving in ways that may not align with their initial image.

Guest Introduction: Jacinda Ardern

Jane introduces her guest, Jacinda Ardern, the former Prime Minister of New Zealand and author of the memoir A Different Kind of Power. Ardern brings firsthand experience of leading a nation through significant challenges, including the devastating Christchurch mosque shootings and the global COVID-19 pandemic. Her leadership style, characterized by empathy and sensitivity, serves as a focal point for the discussion.

The Power of Sensitivity in Leadership

Jacinda Ardern opens the conversation by addressing the misconception that sensitivity is a weakness in politics. She asserts, "I actually do think it is possible to not only just survive in politics, but to thrive" (02:44). Ardern emphasizes the importance of empathy and sensitivity, arguing that these qualities are crucial for politicians to connect with and effectively respond to their constituents' needs.

Combating the "Toxic Empathy" Narrative

Ardern confronts the far-right portrayal of empathy as detrimental, stating, "Empathy never started a war" (03:51). She challenges progressive listeners to resist this rhetoric by highlighting the failures of "strongman leadership" in addressing global issues like climate change and economic insecurity. Ardern advocates for a people-centered approach that prioritizes actionable empathy over performative gestures.

Climate Change and Collaborative Policy-Making

A significant portion of the discussion focuses on Ardern's efforts to tackle climate change in New Zealand. She elaborates on the complexities of engaging with diverse groups, including rural farmers and indigenous communities, to craft effective climate policies. Ardern recounts an initial meeting with farming leaders where she encouraged participants to share what they valued most about New Zealand's environmental reputation. This collaborative approach led to a consensus on the importance of maintaining New Zealand's status as a high-value food producer, facilitating the development of mutually agreeable climate solutions (05:21).

Addressing Global Political Trends and Protests

Ardern addresses the rise of "copy-pasted" MAGA-style protests in New Zealand, Australia, the UK, and Germany. She attributes this phenomenon to the globalization of political culture and underscores the need for democracies to prioritize their health and well-being. Ardern suggests that combating disinformation and foreign interference requires collective action across political spectrums to effectively address global challenges (07:09).

Responding to Terrorism: The Christchurch Call

Reflecting on the tragic Christchurch mosque shootings, Ardern discusses the formation of the Christchurch Call—a coalition aimed at limiting the spread of violent extremism online. She highlights the success of bringing together diverse stakeholders, including tech companies and civil society groups, to create effective policy changes and crisis protocols. Ardern warns of the ongoing challenges posed by emerging technologies like AI, emphasizing the necessity of proactive guardrails (08:31).

Navigating Backlash Against Liberal Governments Post-COVID

Addressing the global backlash against liberal governments following the COVID-19 pandemic, Ardern emphasizes the need for progressives to focus on "theories of delivery." She critiques the political tendency to rely on fear and blame, advocating instead for practical solutions that address systemic issues such as housing affordability. Ardern reflects on New Zealand's struggles with housing policies, acknowledging the complexities of balancing social housing provision with market dynamics (10:05).

Housing Crisis: Challenges and Reflections

Ardern shares insights into New Zealand's housing crisis, noting that while her government built more social housing than any since the 1970s, the high demand outpaced supply. She discusses the multifaceted nature of the issue, including the need to adjust incentives for housing investment and streamline construction regulations. Ardern admits that despite efforts, providing immediate solutions in the face of overwhelming demand proved challenging (11:22).

Looking Forward: Ardern's Future Endeavors

Concluding the conversation, Ardern discusses her future plans, including her book and an upcoming documentary aimed at humanizing leadership. She is particularly excited about her fellowship program, which supports and highlights leaders who embody empathetic and service-oriented political practices. Ardern's goal is to foster a network of motivated politicians committed to progressive and compassionate governance (13:06).

Notable Quotes

• Jacinda Ardern on Sensitivity in Politics: "I actually do think it is possible to not only just survive in politics, but to thrive." (02:44)

• On Empathy vs. Strongman Leadership: "Empathy never started a war." (03:51)

• On Collaborative Climate Policy: "We started with that. We knew it mattered for our trade, we knew it mattered for our reputation, so we worked on solutions together." (05:21)

• Addressing MAGA-Style Protests Globally: "Unless we do, I think we will continue to see just western liberal democracies really struggle with not only the health and wellbeing of their democracy, but also their ability to address some of those really important global challenges." (07:40)

• On the Christchurch Call: "We were able in that moment to build a coalition of different groups... under this unified view of addressing violent extremism and terrorism online." (08:58)

• On Progressive Solutions Post-COVID: "Fear and blame are very easy tools in politics to reach for." (10:22)

• On the Housing Crisis: "Housing prices are crushing families and keeping young Americans from living where they grew up. We need to change that." (17:52)

• Ardern's Future Vision: "I'm very happy to spend my time spotlighting, supporting them [leaders]." (13:24)

Conclusion

This episode offers a profound exploration of empathetic leadership through the lens of Jacinda Ardern's experiences. It underscores the value of sensitivity and empathy in political leadership, the importance of collaborative policy-making, and the challenges of addressing global and domestic issues in a polarized world. For listeners seeking insights into compassionate and effective governance, this conversation provides both inspiration and practical lessons.

Further Resources:

• A Different Kind of Power by Jacinda Ardern
• Jacinda Ardern's Fellowship Program on Empathetic Leadership