What A Day: “What the FBI Doesn’t Understand About Online Extremism”

Host: Jane Coaston
Guest: David Gilbert (Wired magazine, reporter on disinformation and online extremism)
Date: September 17, 2025

Overview

In this episode, Jane Coaston explores the troubling and complex rise of “nihilistic violent extremism” (NVE) in American mass violence—specifically the use of obscure online memes by perpetrators for notoriety and confusion—and how law enforcement and media struggle to interpret, prevent, and responsibly report on these acts. The recent assassination of conservative activist Charlie Kirk, and the online footprint of his alleged attacker, form the backdrop for a deeper discussion with Wired’s David Gilbert about the evolution of extremist communities, gaps in institutional understanding, and the metastasis of online radicalization.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Charlie Kirk Assassination and Its Online Context ([00:56]–[02:32])

• Prosecutors in Utah charged a 22-year-old with the killing of Charlie Kirk, citing motivations rooted in “hatred” but heavily laced with obscure internet memes and “jokes” engraved on bullet casings.
• The suspect told his roommate that he hoped to see these memes referenced on Fox News, illustrating a desire for notoriety and mainstream confusion.

Jane Coaston [01:07]: "It's important not to give people who commit acts of violence the infamy they crave... That's such an important factor when talking about Kirk's murder or acts of violence that seem to be taking place more frequently."

David Gilbert [03:06]: “The shooter was engraving these memes on the bullets because they wanted those memes to be aired. They wanted people to misinterpret them.”

• David Gilbert explains the “memeification” serves as both an inside joke for online subcultures and a tactic to befuddle outsiders and amplify notoriety.

2. The Role and Challenge of Law Enforcement ([04:12]–[06:41])

• Traditional investigative techniques are being outpaced by the online evolution of extremist “lore,” with much activity confined to private servers and encrypted communities.
• The FBI’s rise in NVE cases is, in part, an artifact of reclassification, not successful interdiction:

David Gilbert [05:59]: "The investigations into this nihilistic, violent extremism has gone up 300%. ...But the reason it's gone up 300% is because they've just classified this group of people. Two years ago, it would have been zero."

• There is a sense of futility both for families and law enforcement, as the online radicalization often occurs without real-world warning signs or access.

3. Media, Memes, and the Making of Martyrs ([06:41]–[08:41])

• Both host and guest discuss the “contagion effect” of mass shooting media coverage: naming perpetrators and decoding their memes can inspire copycats or feed their communities.
• Mainstream media frequently misreports, misinterprets, or withdraws stories about these online subcultures due to lack of expertise.
• Congressional hearings reveal similar confusion among lawmakers, undercutting efforts to hold agencies like the FBI accountable.

David Gilbert [07:45]: “We saw this week multiple examples of major news organizations publishing things that they didn't fully understand or that they misinterpreted and had to walk back.”

4. What is Nihilistic Violent Extremism? ([08:41]–[10:04])

• NVE is distinguished by the absence of coherent political ideology; violence is not a means to an agenda but the end goal itself.
• Often, the reward is online status within extremist communities, not external recognition or “mainstream” goals.

David Gilbert [08:55]: “They are not left wing or right wing. The violence is the reason for carrying out these acts.”

• This defies traditional media and law enforcement frameworks, which are oriented toward left/right extremism.

5. Consequences and Worries—The "Martyrdom" of Charlie Kirk ([10:04]–[12:28])

• Gilbert notes a disturbing post-assassination dynamic: extremist groups who opposed Kirk in life now exploit his death to broaden their appeal and radicalize moderates on the right.

Jane Coaston [10:39]: “He got a lot of pushback from the far right for not being anti-Semitic.”

David Gilbert [11:04]: “Now those same groups are holding Kirk up as a martyr… If they’re willing to do that to Charlie Kirk, who was a moderate, what will they do to us?”

• This “rallying” effect could drive more angry, armed people into the streets, increasing the risk of further violence.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• On the spread and meaning of memes:
  David Gilbert [03:24]: “They wanted Fox News talking about them. They wanted people to misinterpret them... People get completely confused. And the reason that mass shooters... have used them in the past is purely because they want normies to be completely confused and caught off guard by what they mean.”

• On media’s responsibility:
  Jane Coaston [06:41]: “How should journalists... cover this and keep the public educated about what's happening, but not feed into the disturbing lore of shooters who probably think it’s super funny that we're all trying to figure out what these memes reference...?”

  David Gilbert [07:17]: “There are lots of people out there who are superb at covering this stuff in a very careful and factual manner. But a lot of media organizations have... moved away from covering it at all... They just don’t have the expertise on hand.”

• On the new breed of extremists:
  David Gilbert [08:55]: “Groups that do not subscribe to a political ideology... The violence is the reason… for carrying out these acts. That is the end goal.”

• On the risk of escalation after Kirk’s death:
  David Gilbert [11:49]: “Those groups are a hive of activity again. And you see people who may have been on the cusp of joining them before... now following those extremists.”

Key Segment Timestamps

• [00:56] – Utah prosecutors charge Charlie Kirk’s alleged murderer; meme-laden evidence described
• [02:20] – FBI Director Kash Patel cites sharp rise in NVE investigations
• [02:32] – Interview with David Gilbert begins: analysis of meme culture among extremists
• [04:45] – Roadblocks for law enforcement and families in identifying online radicalization
• [06:41] – Discussion of media responsibility, coverage, and limitations in decoding NVE
• [08:55] – Definition of “nihilistic violent extremism” and why it perplexes authorities
• [10:39] – Implications for right-wing communities: martyrdom, radicalization, danger of escalation
• [12:28] – Conclusion of interview

Takeaways

• NVE represents a dangerous evolution in extremist violence: The lack of ideology and focus on notoriety through digital channels makes these actors harder to profile, predict, or deter.
• Law enforcement and media remain outpaced: Both are often ill-equipped to understand, decode, and counteract the rapidly mutating language, tactics, and in-group codes of online extremist communities.
• Post-violence dynamics matter: Online extremists exploit deaths like Kirk’s to widen their appeal, radicalize new members, and justify escalation—often targeting those they once opposed.
• Coverage matters: Thoughtful, informed reporting is crucial to avoid inadvertently feeding into the infamy and mythmaking that drive future acts.

This episode is an urgent, nuanced look at a new chapter in American extremism—and a call for smarter, more responsible coverage and intervention.