Episode Summary: "When The Conspiracy Theorists Become Bureaucrats"

Release Date: May 29, 2025
Podcast: What A Day
Host: Jane Coaston | Produced by Crooked Media

1. Introduction

In the episode titled "When The Conspiracy Theorists Become Bureaucrats," host Jane Coston delves into the intriguing and complex dynamics that emerge when individuals known for promoting conspiracy theories assume significant roles within the U.S. government. The discussion primarily focuses on figures from the Trump administration, examining how their ascent to power has impacted their supporter base and the broader political landscape.

2. Conspiracy Theorists in Government

Jane begins by highlighting the presence of prominent conspiracy theorists within key governmental positions during the Trump administration:

• Kash Patel: Former Director of the FBI
• Dan Bongino: Former Deputy Director of the FBI
• Robert F. Kennedy Jr.: Former Secretary of Health and Human Services

Jane points out that these individuals were not only influential within their respective roles but also avid proponents of various conspiracy theories prior to and during their tenure. For instance, Patel and Bongino both extensively discussed Jeffrey Epstein's death, casting doubt on the official account of suicide.

Notable Quote:
Jane Coston [00:02]: “I've reported on conspiracy theorists and their ideas for years...they were conspiracy theorists.”

3. The Fan Backlash

As these figures gained power, their supporter base, which had historically championed their conspiratorial narratives, began expressing frustration. The main contention arises from the perception that these bureaucrats are not actively advancing or validating the conspiracy theories that once propelled them to prominence.

Examples Highlighted:

• Kash Patel: During an appearance on Fox News's Bret Baier, Patel was repeatedly questioned about Epstein's death, to which he expressed annoyance rather than providing new insights.

• Dan Bongino: Previously vocal about Epstein's death being suspicious, Bongino now asserts that it was a straightforward suicide, leading to backlash from his supporters.

• Robert F. Kennedy Jr.: Known for spreading unfounded theories linking vaccines to autism, his role in government has involved actions contrary to the expectations of his anti-vaccine base, such as rolling back COVID-19 vaccine recommendations.

Notable Quote:
Jane Coston [02:58]: “I need to be able to sue the government, even if It's Robert Kennedy Jr. That's just how we're wired...I am a truth teller.”

4. Interview with Will Sommer

To navigate these tensions, Jane engages in a conversation with Will Sommer, a senior writer at The Bulwark and author of the False Flag newsletter. Sommer provides an in-depth analysis of the internal divisions within the "Make America Healthy Again" (MAHA) movement and its impact on current governmental policies.

Key Points from Will Sommer:

• There's a split between traditional RFK Jr. supporters focused on broad conspiracies and those advocating for more pragmatic approaches like improving the food supply.

• Sommer observes that individuals like Robert F. Kennedy Jr. often find themselves at odds with their base when enforcing policies or acknowledging realities that contradict their earlier stances.

Notable Quote:
Will Sommer [03:58]: “The former group sees the, the, the food people as sort of a distraction...they are concerned that RFK is focusing too much on things like getting artificial dyes out of potato chips.”

5. Tension Between Beliefs and Reality

The discussion pivots to the inherent conflict faced by bureaucrats who emerged from conspiracy-laden backgrounds. These individuals are now tasked with implementing policies and making decisions grounded in factual governance, which often contradicts the fantastical narratives they once promoted.

Examples Discussed:

• RFK Jr.: His partial endorsement of the measles vaccine during an outbreak met with severe disapproval from his anti-vaccine supporters.

• Dan Bongino: Struggles to reconcile his public statements endorsing official accounts with the expectations of his conspiracy-supporting audience.

Notable Quote:
Will Sommer [05:22]: “They have to sort the circle there on their beliefs.”

6. The Epstein Case

A pivotal example used to illustrate the broader theme is the Jeffrey Epstein case. Figures like Kash Patel and Dan Bongino had previously fueled theories that Epstein was murdered to conceal deeper conspiracies. However, their recent declarations supporting the official account of suicide have alienated their supporters.

Impact Highlighted:

• The episode underscores how these bureaucrats' acceptance of official narratives leads to distrust and anger among their former allies, who believe that the truth is being suppressed.

Notable Quote:
Jane Coston [06:33]: “It's a railroad job... there's so much conspiracy.”

7. Impact on Audience and Future Implications

Jane and Sommer explore the broader implications of their findings, contemplating the future of political narratives fueled by conspiracy theories. They discuss the potential emergence of new conspiracy theories as current ones fail to deliver the anticipated revelations and transformations.

Sommer's Perspective:

• The dissatisfaction among conspiracy theory adherents may lead to the creation of new, more elaborate theories to explain ongoing political and social developments.

Notable Quote:
Will Sommer [10:29]: “I think that there's gonna be new conspiracy theories.”

8. Why This Matters Now

Jane emphasizes the importance of understanding these dynamics, especially for those who oppose conspiracy-driven politics. Recognizing the influence these figures wield within the government and the policies they enact based on flawed premises is crucial for informed civic engagement and accountability.

Notable Quote:
Will Sommer [11:23]: “These are the people who are influencing the government...we have to be aware of what these people are talking about among themselves.”

Conclusion

The episode "When The Conspiracy Theorists Become Bureaucrats" offers a compelling examination of the intersection between conspiracy theories and formal governmental power. Through insightful dialogue and expert analysis, Jane Coston and Will Sommer shed light on the challenges and repercussions of having conspiracy-minded individuals shaping public policy, and the resulting tensions that arise when reality diverges from the fantasies that once drove their rise to power.

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