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Why Some Migrants Say They'll Self-Deport
00:23:35
The Trump administration's relentless assault on immigrants keeps marching on. Over the weekend, federal officials said they arrested nearly 800 people in Florida during a four-day immigration enforcement operation. ICE also deported three children who are U.S. citizens on Friday, including one who’d been diagnosed with cancer. As the White House widens its brutal crackdown on migrants, some say they’ll do what Trump wants them to do: leave the country and the lives they built here behind. Rebecca Plevin, who covers equity for The Los Angeles Times, tells us why. And in headlines: Pope Francis was laid to rest in Rome, President Trump admits Russian President Vladimir Putin may not want to stop attacking Ukraine, and the White House restored visa registrations for thousands of international students.
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- [00:02]
Josie Duffy Rice
It's Monday, April 28th. I'm Josie Duffy Rice in for Jane Coston. And this is what a day. The show that rejects the idea that, quote, christopher Columbus is so back, as the White House claimed via tweet. He's not back. Not at all. He's dead, actually. On today's show, Pope Francis is laid to rest. And President Donald Trump admits that maybe Russian President Vladimir Putin doesn't want to stop attacking Ukraine. Who knew? But first, there's more news in Trump's assault on immigrants. On Friday, FBI agents arrested Milwaukee County Circuit Court Judge Hannah Dugan after she allegedly intentionally misdirected federal agents. The agency claimed she told an undocumented immigrant to leave through a side door of the courtroom as Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents waited in the main hallway. The arrest also highlights the Trump administration's increasing animosity towards the judiciary. Then, on Saturday, ICE officials announced the arrest of almost 800 people in Florida in just four days. They called the mass arrests a first of its kind partnership between state and federal partners, keeping America safe by using local law enforcement to help ICE deport people instead of, you know, solving crimes, for example. And lastly, Trump's assault on immigration has, as many warned, begun to directly ensnare American citizens in a shocking violation of their rights. Three U.S. citizens were deported on Friday. All three were children ages 2, 4 and 7. Administration officials say they were deported with their mothers. As if that wasn't bad enough, the Washington Post reports that one of the children has stage four cancer and was deported, quote, without medication or the ability to contact their doctors. Secretary of State Marco Rubio was asked about the deportation Sunday on Meet the Press.
- [02:02]
Marco Rubio
If those children are US Citizens, they can come back into the United States if there's their father or someone here who wants to assume them. But ultimately, who was deported was their mother. Their mothers who were here illegally, the children just went with their mothers. But it wasn't like you guys make it sound like ICE agents kicked down the door and grabbed the two year old and threw him on an airplane. That's misleading.
- [02:23]
Josie Duffy Rice
So on their face, Rubio's comments might sound reasonable, except in the case of at least one of Those kids, the 2 year old, her father was desperately petitioning the court to keep her here in the US and he alleges that ICE agents only let him speak to the girl's mother for about one minute while in custody. Is this keeping America safe? Deporting citizens, Deporting children with cancer? When people warned that Trump's deported, all cost policies violate the Constitution that they would inevitably hurt not just non citizens, but citizens too. This is what they meant. As far as constitutional violations go. Deporting citizens without any due process is like, very, very high on the list. But this constant barrage of horrifying news about deportations is by design. The administration wants to send the message that if you're an undocumented immigrant, you are a target. Also, if you're related to an undocumented immigrant, you might be a target. And if they hit that message hard enough, they're hoping that people will just choose to leave on their own. They're even running ads on TV and social media asking people to leave rather than risk being deported.
- [03:27]
Dr. Jenna Ashton
If you are here illegally, you're next. You will be fined nearly $1,000 a day, imprisoned and deported. You will never return. But if you register using our CBP home app and leave now, you could be allowed to return legally. Do what's right. Leave now.
- [03:46]
Josie Duffy Rice
This actually isn't a new idea in Republican politics. It's been around for more than a decade at least. Mitt Romney even floated the idea during a Republican primary debate when he was running for president in 2012.
- [03:58]
Rebecca Plevin
The answer is self deportation, which is people decide that they can do better by going home because they can't find work here because they don't have legal documentation to allow them to work here.
- [04:07]
Josie Duffy Rice
You can actually hear people laughing as Romney says this, which shows you how much things have changed since then. Because amid the Trump administration's brutal immigration crackdown, people are actually doing it now self deporting, or at the very least, planning to. That's according to Rebecca Plevin. She covers equity for the Los Angeles Times, and she spoke with a few people who say that for them, it's too risky to stay.
- [04:31]
Elena
Rebecca, welcome to what a day.
- [04:33]
Rebecca Plevin
Thanks for having me.
- [04:34]
Elena
So the Trump administration has made a very public push to get people to.
- [04:39]
Josie Duffy Rice
As they put it, self deport.
- [04:41]
Elena
They've been running TV commercials in English and Spanish encouraging people to leave the country. But I think it might be surprising to a lot of listeners that people are actually choosing to do this. So why, why are some migrants choosing to leave the US on their own?
- [04:59]
Rebecca Plevin
I think in a word, fear. I think people are really fearful right now. You know, one thing I heard from an immigration advocate I spoke with is that right now people are saying that they'd rather leave with something, leave with nothing, meaning they'd rather be able to, you know, get their affairs in order and pack their things, you know, everything they've amassed in this country and be able to leave, you know, on their own terms rather than be deported and, you know, have their lives left behind.
- [05:25]
Elena
You spoke with a woman named Celeste. We're not going to use her full name. You didn't end your story about this either. And she came here decades ago from Peru. Can you tell us a little bit more about her?
- [05:37]
Rebecca Plevin
Yeah, sure. So Celeste came here as a young woman. She was 19. She overstayed her tourist visa. And then in Peru, she had studied graphic design, but when she came here, she wasn't able to work in that field. So she's worked cleaning hotels and cleaning offices. She's always paid her taxes with the hopes that there would be immigration reform and she could prove that she'd been here paying taxes. She built a life. She has friends. She was taking community college courses. But, you know, I think since Trump came into office, that American dream has imploded over the years, and she's just become really fearful. You know, she has seen the images of immigrants being deported on deportation flights, shackled like criminals, she said, and she's really fearful that she would be deported in the same way. And so she's made the decision that she's going to keep working for a couple months, save some money, and then return to Peru by the end of the year.
- [06:32]
Elena
And what does she think there is for her in Peru? Like, why is that actually a better option than worrying here?
- [06:38]
Rebecca Plevin
I think she's staying here. I think she feels like she has really lost her freedom. She doesn't feel like she can live her normal life. She can't go out hiking anymore. She is not comfortable eating in restaurants, going out dancing. She doesn't even want to enroll in online classes for fear that she'd have to share her name and address. Here's someone who's been paying her taxes, and she's worried that now with the Internal Revenue Service sharing information with Immigration and Customs Enforcement, that she could be targeted. You know, she just feels very vulnerable and exposed. And I think at some point, people think, like, that's not a way to live. I'd rather return home on my own accord. Of my own accord.
- [07:19]
Josie Duffy Rice
Yeah.
- [07:20]
Elena
I mean, and she's obviously not alone. You spoke to another woman, Elena, who also says she plans to move back to Mexico by the end of the year, even though she's been in the US for decades. And she has kids and grandkids who are US Citizens. So can you tell us what she told you?
- [07:34]
Rebecca Plevin
Yeah, sure. So Elena came here and she has three kids. Two were born in the U.S. she now has two grandchildren, but she also became very fearful. You know, she. She was driving along Interstate 8, you know, which is along the southern border of the country, and she saw an immigration checkpoint. She saw people being handcuffed and detained, and it just broke her heart. It made her really fearful. You know, she goes shopping in her own neighborhood in Southern California, and in employee told her, you know, if you don't have papers, don't go out. And I think she just feels so fearful right now, it's almost made her physically sick. And so she and her husband, they do have five acres of land in Chiapas, where they're from, in Southern Mexico. And they are also planning to return home and try to build a ranch and, you know, grow crops and raise animals. But for her, what's really heartbreaking is leaving her grandchildren behind. You know, she's gonna leave two grandchildren. She'll be thousands of miles away. Doesn't know if she'll.
- [08:32]
Dr. Jenna Ashton
If.
- [08:32]
Rebecca Plevin
When she'll be able to see them again. And, you know, as a grandmother, I think that's really heartbreaking for her.
- [08:38]
Elena
Yeah, devastating. So neither of them have left yet. And I wonder, did you get the sense that there's anything that could change their minds, that there's anything that could keep them here?
- [08:51]
Rebecca Plevin
You know, that's a great question. I think neither of them felt like they had a route to gain legal status. I think they had both, you know, explored their options. If there was a way that they could gain legal status, I think they would consider staying here because they have built lives here. But absent that, they seemed like they had, you know, really wrestled with the decision and had, you know, come to this tough decision for them.
- [09:14]
Elena
And both of them live in California, which, you know, as a state kind of ostensibly says it wants to protect undocumented immigrants. And there they have more access to social services, et cetera, than they might other places. So what does that say about kind of the state's ability or limited ability to kind of stand in the way of the administration's immigration crackdown?
- [09:36]
Rebecca Plevin
Yeah, I mean, California is a state where, you know, I reported recently on a survey that found that a majority of Californians still support providing, like many social services to unauthorized immigrants. But, you know, immigration is a federal issue, and I think the policies and the rhetoric coming out of Washington are, you know, doing what the Trump administration is intending them to do. You know, I spoke with one professor from UC Davis who said that, you know, these policies taken together are designed to strike fear and terror into immigrant communities. And basically say, like, we're going to get you, we're going to find you. And I think that message has, you know, really resonated in communities despite being in a place like California.
- [10:20]
Elena
You mentioned also that you'd spoken with some immigrants rights advocates who are also hearing from people saying that they want to leave. What are they telling people who say that? Do they have advice? Do they, you know, are they giving guidance on that? Did you get a sense?
- [10:35]
Rebecca Plevin
Yeah, you know, I think it's a multi pronged answer for them. I think they still feel like, you know, empowering the community, making sure people know their rights is really important. But at the end of the day, I think these immigrant rights advocates also know that, like, they, they want the best for their community and they know that, like, people know what's going to make them feel safe and secure. And if that's leaving, like, that's, that's their decision. And the immigrant rights advocates won't tell them, don't do that. I also spoke with one advocate who said that he will take off his immigrant rights executive director hat and tell people, I don't have any control over whether you get pulled over by ICE or border Patrol, whether they come to your workplace. I can't guarantee that's not going to happen, he says, but if it does happen, we want you to know that you have a community behind you, that, that, you know, this immigrant rights community will fight for you. So it's. Yeah, it's a multi pronged answer.
- [11:32]
Josie Duffy Rice
Yeah.
- [11:33]
Elena
So obviously this is Trump's second term. He made similar threats of mass deportation in his first term. His administration infamously separated kids from their parents at the border, et cetera.
- [11:43]
Josie Duffy Rice
For the people that you spoke to.
- [11:44]
Elena
What is making this time different?
- [11:47]
Rebecca Plevin
I think it's the speed at which policies are changing. I think policies are changing swiftly. And I think, you know, in Southern California, people are also seeing a lot more Border Patrol agents on the road. They're seeing more ICE agents. And so it's, it's like this fire hose of, you know, news and information. You know, every day there's more coming out of Washington. You know, they're getting it through the news, they're getting it through social media, and then they're seeing it on the streets. I think there's a lot of confusion also. Like, things are changing, but people don't know if it impacts them or not or how it's going to impact. So, yeah, I think it's just, it's that fire hose and it's just leaving people feeling very vulnerable and exposed and uncomfortable.
- [12:31]
Elena
So I just have one more question, which is the White House has said to people, leave on your own accord, self deport and you might have the opportunity to return legally later. Do you get the sense that the.
- [12:44]
Josie Duffy Rice
People that you're speaking to really believe that or hope for that?
- [12:48]
Rebecca Plevin
I think they hope for that. And I'm not even sure that they've heard it through a policy promise. But I think that, you know, because they have such like family ties here, I think there is hope that, you know, if they leave now rather than get deported, that it will be easier to come back. You know, Celeste mentioned that she doesn't want to be sent home after all this time with a big deported stamp. Elena, the grandmother we talked about, she really wants to be able to see her grandchildren again. And you know, even if it takes 10 years, she'd rather leave now, get her affairs in order and then be able to come back legally to be able to see her grandchildren. So, yeah, I think that is part of it, that they would rather leave now so that it's easier to come back legally than, you know, be deported and have restrictions on when they can come back.
- [13:32]
Elena
Rebecca, thank you so much for joining us.
- [13:35]
Rebecca Plevin
Thanks for having me. It was great speaking with you.
- [13:37]
Josie Duffy Rice
That was my conversation with Rebecca Plevin, who covers equity for the Los Angeles Times. We'll link to her story in our show Notes. We'll get to more of the news in a moment. But if you like the show, make sure to subscribe, leave a five star review on Apple Podcasts, watch us on YouTube and share with your friends. More to come after some ads.
- [14:07]
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- [16:04]
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This podcast is supported by Comedy Central's the Daily Show. Jon Stewart and the Daily show news team are covering the final week of President Trump's second first 100 days with a different host every night. There's never been a week like this because, well, there's never been a president like this except for the last time he was president. Comedy Central's the Daily show new weeknights at 11:10 Central on Comedy Central and streaming next day on Paramount. Plus.
- [16:33]
Josie Duffy Rice
Here'S what else we're following today.
- [16:36]
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Head of Lines.
- [16:46]
Josie Duffy Rice
Pope Francis was laid to rest in Rome Saturday. He passed away last week after suffering a stroke that led to a coma and eventually heart failure. He was 88 years old. A public funeral service for the late pontiff was held at St. Peter's Basilica in Vatican City. Crowds of mourners gathered outside to watch the procession. The Vatican said more than a quarter million people attended. Several world leaders came to pay their respects, including President Donald Trump. Cardinal Giovanni Battista Rey delivered the eulogy. Here he is interpreted by France 24news speaking about how Francis was a champion for the marginalized.
- [17:26]
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- [17:33]
Josie Duffy Rice
Francis body was buried at St. Mary Major's Basilica in Rome during a private ceremony later in the day. He's the first pope to be buried outside the Vatican in centuries. Cardinals are preparing to elect a new pope through a process called the Conclave. It's expected to begin in early May. And on the sidelines of Francis funeral, President Trump met with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy on Saturday. Zelenskyy said in a post on Twitter it was a good meeting and that he's hoping for results on a full and unconditional ceasefire. And while the exact details of their conversation aren't known, something seems to have shifted Trump's mind a bit because in a lengthy post on Truth Social after the meeting, Trump scolded Russian President Vladimir Putin for attacking civilian areas in Ukraine. He went on to say, quote, it makes me think that maybe he doesn't want to stop the war. He's just tapping me along and has to be dealt with differently. Yeah, dude, I've been trying to tell you, man. Trump elaborated on his post Sunday outside Air Force One. He said he sensed Zelensky had a different attitude. I see him as calmer. I think he understands the picture and I think he wants to make a deal. Trump also suggested this weekend he's weighing banking and other sanctions as possible consequences for Russia. Secretary of State Rubio was asked about the possibility of more Russia sanctions on NBC's Meet the Press on Sunday.
- [18:57]
Marco Rubio
We have multiple options, frankly, to address this and to deal with all of this, but we don't want to get to that point. This is still not the time. I think what the president is saying and has been saying for some time now is he is aware that he has these options. People ask him about it all the time, but what he really wants is a peace deal.
- [19:13]
Josie Duffy Rice
Thank you for that non answer. Secretary Rubio also said this is going to be a, quote, very critical week and that the US has to make a decision about whether mediating peace talks is, quote, an endeavor that we want to continue to be involved in. His comments come as Ukrainian officials said Sunday a barrage of Russian drone attacks and airstrikes across the country killed at least four people. In a big reversal, the White House restored visa registrations for thousands of international students who'd had them terminated in recent weeks. The Justice Department revealed the decision Friday during a federal court hearing. Attorneys said more than 4,000 students would have their visa records reinstated in a government database used to track them. The earlier mass purging of records appeared to target students with minor legal infractions, but in some cases there was no clear reason for the revocation. Many students feared they had lost their immigration status entirely when they learned their visa records had been terminated, often with little explanation. Dozens of them sued, and several judges ordered the Trump administration to reverse course. But lest you think the administration is going soft all of a sudden, a Justice Department lawyer said in court Friday that immigration authorities are developing a new policy that would allow them to review and purge the records of international students, meaning that those same students who just had their visa registrations restored could have them revoked again in the future. This week, President Trump will mark 100 days back in office, and he'll do it in a historic fashion. With some of the worst poll numbers for a sitting president this early into his term, a chorus of new polls show a majority of voters are not exactly singing his praises. Unlike any issue. According to a CNN SSRS poll released Sunday, Trump's approval rating sits at 41%, the lowest for a newly elected president, dating all the way back to at least the 50s and Dwight Eisenhower. Trump even scored lower this time around than he did in his first term when he lost a popular vote. Look at him. He's just smashing records left and right. And that was not all. An ABC News Washington Post Ipsos poll found similar results. Just 39% of respondents said they approve of how Trump is handling his job, and 55% said they disapprove. Per that survey, a majority of Americans disapprove of Trump's handling of the economy and our relations with other countries. And people are still aren't feeling too hot about tariffs or the flailing stock market or the way Trump is going about managing the federal government. And the president fared little better in a New York Times Siena College poll with a 42% approval rating. That poll also showed him underwater on every issue they asked voters about, from immigration to the Russia, Ukraine war. But wait, there's more. An NBC News poll found Gen Z voters are not super keen on him either. Here's the network's chief data analyst, Steve Konacki on Sunday. It's basically 2 to 1 disapprove among gen Z.
- [22:08]
Rebecca Plevin
This is a more anti Trump, Trump.
- [22:10]
Josie Duffy Rice
Hostile generation than we see in the other generations. This extends to Trump policies, trade tariffs. Again, overall, not that popular. And while most Republicans are refusing to leave Trump's side, an AP north poll found that only about half say their president is focused on the right priorities. I gotta say, it takes real work to be this unpopular this quickly. And that's the news. Before we go, trans people are under attack by weirdos who think trans people shouldn't exist and billionaire sex pests should stand up for the trans community and a trans people have always existed. T shirt or tote at the Cricket Store. Show your defiance with a statement that isn't actually radical at all. Head to cricut.comstore to shop. That is all for today. If you like the show, make sure you subscribe, leave a review, rain some hate on Donald Trump in an opinion poll and tell your friends to listen. If you are into reading and not just all the ways Trump's 100 day polling numbers are historically terrible. Like me. What a Day is also a nightly newsletter, so check it out and subscribe@cricket.com subscribe I'm Josie Duffy Rice and I am more popular than Donald Trump.
- [23:53]
Production Team
Water Day is a production of Crooked Media. It's recorded and mixed by Desmond Taylor. Our associate producers are Raven Yamamoto and Emily Ford. Our producer is Michelle Aloy. We had production help today from Johanna Case, Joseph Dutra, Greg Walters and Julia Claire. Our senior producer is Erica Morrison and our executive producer is Adrienne Hill. Our theme music is by Colin Gilliard and Kashaka. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America east.
- [24:31]
Laci Mosley
What'S poppin listeners? I'm Laci Mosley, host of the podcast Scam Goddess, the show that's an ode to fraud and all those who practice it. Each week I talk with very special guests about the scammiest scammers of all time. Wanna know about the fake errors? We got em. What about a career con man? We've got them too. Guys that will wine and dine you and then steal all your coins. Oh, you know they are represented cause representation. I'm joined by guests like Nicole byer, Ira Madison III, Conan O'Brien, and more. Join the congregation and listen to Scam Goddess wherever you get your podcasts.
- [25:10]
Dr. Jenna Ashton
I'm Dr. Jenna Ashton, your host for season two of the Visibility Gap, a podcast presented by Cigna Healthcare. Throughout this season, we'll be tackling something vital, the Women's Health Gap. We'll hear from real people and experts as we unpack important topics like maternal health, menopause and heart disease. Listen in and download the new season wherever you get your podcasts.