← What Are You Made Of?
What Are You Made Of?
Abundant Ever After: Spiritual Principles for Purpose, Prosperity, and Peace with Cathy Heller
00:35:03
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- [00:01]
A
Welcome back to the Woody Made Up Show. It's your boy C. Rock here and I'm with Kathy Heller. We were just chopping it up a little bit before we got started. Kathy, it's so good to have you on the show today.
- [00:10]
B
You have such a bright light in you. It's just such a. It's a beautiful thing. There's nothing more beautiful than somebody whose light is turned on.
- [00:18]
A
Thank you. I appreciate that. Yeah, well, man, you know, it sets me back. Not many people give compliments and things nowadays. I really appreciate that, though, and I receive it. Thank you. Yeah. Let's get started on this because I'm really excited about sharing, you know, your journey with the audience and the things you've figured out and the things you're helping people with. So the first question we always start with is, what are you made of, Kathy?
- [00:41]
B
It's such a great question. You know, I think the answer to that that you and I were just talking about before we hit record is each of us is wearing this, like, somebody suit. We have this, like, person that's assigned to us, this role that we play. But really we're a soul. And as my rabbi says, we're each a masterpiece, a piece of the master. So that's what we're made of. That's what I'm made of. You know, it's like we each have this. We're someone. We're some of the one, you know, and at the end of the day, when you realize, you know, you're the daughter of the king, you know, you're walking around like, wait a minute. All this power that everyone's looking at for outside of themselves, it's right inside of you, actually. And you're not looking to accomplish things and build piles of things. You're looking to emanate a light that's bigger than you, that can flow through you, and you're plugged into the electricity, which is God. So I feel like that's what I'm made of. But we're all made of that same thing.
- [01:46]
A
Phenomenal answer. Yeah. You know, and. And it's. It's sometimes difficult for people to keep emanating that light when they're going through the ups and downs of life. Like they're cool when everything's good and they, yeah, I'm emanating this and that. But then when it gets down here, are you still in that. In that state? Are you still in that understanding and committed to that? Because really, that's one thing that I'm always focused on. 48 years old. Now I'm focused on all the. No matter what's going on, I. My identity is not attached to outcomes. My identity is not attached, or my worth is not attached to how the business might be doing that week, but also at the top. I'm always grateful at the top and the bottom for everything that I'm blessed with, because so many times we're looking at the things that we don't have and where we're not. Right. So. Yeah, I love that. All right, so where did this all start for you? You were from Florida originally, right? What was life like as a kid?
- [02:42]
B
I mean, it was. It was fine. I mean, we had our share of issues. My parents had a horrible marriage. They wound up having an even worse divorce. But then it was the 80s, so there was still a lot of, like, fun. You know, I didn't realize how peaceful it really was, you know, that we could, like, ride our bikes and we had friends and make lemonade stands and, you know, trade garbage pail kids. But my parents fought a lot. That sucked. It wasn't great. My mom's mental health wasn't good, but I. I don't know. I. I found my way with projects and things that I loved. I was really involved with doing theater and dance and music and all of that stuff after school. And then I went to college, and then I was really seeking something much bigger. And then I went to Jerusalem after college. I was supposed to be there for three weeks, and I stayed for three years. I started learning the Bible. I fell in love with God. And then I've been on that journey for it's 26 years. I've been really devoted to having a relationship with God. So that completely changed my life.
- [03:47]
A
So what did you go to school for?
- [03:49]
B
I mean, I went to. I grew up in Florida, as we talked about. I went to Florida State. I started out as a theater major because I grew up doing musicals and stuff like that. And then I was like, I don't really want to do this. What I really want to do is understand why the heck we're here. Like, why are we even on the planet? And I didn't grow up with any spirituality. I didn't grow up with anything, really. No. No consciousness about anything like that. And so I started studying these books and reading about all kinds of philosophies, and it really opened my eyes to, wow, there's so much depth. It's not just about going to the mall on Saturday. Like, there's so much more to life than acquiring things and so I became a, like a humanities world religion major. I realized I could get a degree in it. I could read these books and actually get a degree. So, so I did that. And then I didn't know what I was going to do after college. I became editor of my college paper. So I think my little. The little seed of eventually becoming a podcaster kind of started in college because we had a pretty big campus of 40,000 kids. And I was interviewing everybody who had come through campus. It was actually the year of an election, a big election in Florida in 2000. I graduated in 01. And so I interviewed Al Gore because he was on campus. And I was actually there the night that Florida kind of screwed up that election. And it was really interesting. I started learning a lot by listening to people and doing interviews and writing about it. I didn't know what I wanted to do. But after college I was like, you know, I'm going to go to Jerusalem for three weeks. And then I just. It turned into three years of living there. And then something told me to go to Los Angeles. I had never been there. And I went to la, and then I thought I was going to go to do one thing, and I wound up studying meditation and got into something totally different.
- [05:43]
A
So you didn't grow up in a religious household. So then you went to Jerusalem and you. In Jerusalem, there's Muslims there, there's Jewish people, and there's Christians, and then there's obviously secular still, too. But when you started going there and then started in your studies, what was the first religion or faith that you felt pulled to?
- [06:02]
B
I mean, I am Jewish. Like, and that's not just faith, right? Like, it's in my biology. Like, when my husband and I, when we got married, we had to take these tests because biologically, if you're both Jewish, you could carry certain Ashkenazi Jewish, like, traits. Right? And Sparta Jews carry their traits. So, like, that's like, who I am in my DNA.
- [06:22]
A
Yeah, of course.
- [06:23]
B
So. So that's the first one that I actually, when I was in Israel, I mean, that's what I was, like, looking into, is studying Judaism. But in college, the first one that I was wanting to know about wasn't Judaism, it was Buddhism. I was like, everyone's going to yoga. I want to get still. I want to have meditation in my life. And I loved it. And when I graduated from college, I actually wrote my thesis on comparing Moses and Siddhartha, who was the Buddha. And it's really interesting because they both were a prince. They both Grew up in a palace. They had tremendous material wealth, and they both left a palace to go into the wilderness. And then they both created an unbelievable path and became leaders, you know, of people. So there's a lot of similarities in that. And most of the biggest influencers who are. Who are Buddhists in America are actually Jews who've, like, found their way to Buddhism, Like John Kabat Zin and Tara Brock and Joseph Goldstein. Ram Dass, I mean, he's more in Hinduism, but, like, was born Jewish. So I think a lot of people who don't. They don't grow up with the. The. The religion or the tradition, and they're looking and they're seeking something. They wind up seeking Buddhism instead of seeking their own Judaism, and then they wind up in Buddhism, which is really interesting.
- [07:37]
A
Gotcha. Gotcha. And then you mentioned the Bible when you went there, too. You studied the Bible, and what are some of the things you picked up from that and Jesus's journey compared to Moses and what was the Buddhist scene?
- [07:50]
B
Siddhartha. He's the name of the Buddha. Yeah. So when I was in Israel, I mean, when I was studying the Bible, I was studying the Old Testament, like the five books of Moses. Um, in college, I studied Christianity because it was part of our world religion. And I love it. I mean, I just have. I'm such a fan of. I'm such a fan of Christianity and. And all of that. But in the. The time that I've spent for the last 26 years is, like, really diving into the depth of Jewish philosophy and Kabbalah and. And, like, really understanding that tapestry. It's just really served my journey in the deepest way.
- [08:26]
A
And so, yeah, the influence of what. For what you're doing now has been surrounded by that. And.
- [08:31]
B
Yes. And then also when I came to Los Angeles, I started taking meditation classes at ucla. It's a long story how I got there. And I really wanted to understand how does the mind operate and how do we operate when we're actually in coherence? And so I started that whole journey, and then I got certified to teach meditation. And. And so combining a study of how we operate right when we're actually in flow and we're present and looking at the data and the science of just what that looks like and combining that with spirituality, that's really probably been, like, the combo of my journey.
- [09:09]
A
Yeah, gotcha. And so when you come back from Israel, what is the thing that you focused on as far as your profession?
- [09:17]
B
So I had this calling that I wanted to write music Like. Like, ever since I was a kid, I used to do that. And so I was like, all right, God, you know, you're calling me to move to la. I don't know a soul there. And I wound up getting a record deal at Interscope. And then I w. I was actually sitting with Lady Gaga. She was recording Paparazzi, and I was like, she's gonna be good. Like, I feel right. And then I got. That was fun. And then I got dropped from Interscope, and then I wound up getting another record deal at Atlantic Records, and I was working on a record with Craig Kalman at Atlantic, and then that all went by the wayside, and I was so frustrated. I remember driving in my car and I was crying so hard that I'd pull over, and I said to God, I was like, listen, I don't know what you want me to do. Like, I just want to serve. But these things have happened, but now, like, I've gotten so close, but it's not happening. And I feel as though what we all want to do is be in service. We want to use our gifts to serve. So what's really interesting is I wound up deciding to write music for film and TV shows. And so I wrote songs for Grey's Anatomy and Pretty Little Liars, and I would write my own songs, and I would pitch them, and I would license them.
- [10:30]
A
Now you talk. Are you talking about the music or the music and the lyrics? When you say you wrote songs?
- [10:35]
B
Lyrics. I wound up writing and recording my own songs.
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A
Okay.
- [10:39]
B
That I would license to TV shows and all of that stuff. And. And that wound up being very successful, and I wound up really enjoying it. And all of these songs would have these, like, really deep messages, but they would also be licensable, which was really fun. And eventually, though, I started a podcast in 2017. It's been nine years, and overnight, it was like, overnight, it just took off. And I realized that the. The instinct I had where I heard God saying, use your voice, it really wasn't about writing music. It was just using my voice to speak into people about their divine assignment and how they're each created with a mission. Right?
- [11:25]
A
Yeah.
- [11:25]
B
And so, like, right away, the podcast exploded. And it's just so interesting that you. If you just are willing to keep being led and you. You let go and you surrender how it has to look, it's there. Like, it's. It's. What you seek is seeking you. And so now I've been doing that for almost 10 years.
- [11:46]
A
Wow. So a couple things I want to talk about here. All right, let's touch on the music business for a second. So when you were at Interscope, what did you see in that side of the business that, you know, we hear all these different things in the music business, how hard it is, how you can get taken advantage of, like, all these different things. Right. What did you experience, the good and the bad?
- [12:08]
B
I mean, I feel like there's a lot. Look, whatever you believe you'll find evidence of. So there's people and bad people in every industry.
- [12:16]
A
Sure.
- [12:17]
B
I'm sure if you were a landscaper, you'd be like, these people are great. These people are not honest. I mean, it's. I don't think so. I think it's the same. You know what I mean? I think there's a lot of amazing people in the music industry. There's people who will inspire you. There's people who work hard. There's people who you have to be careful of. They're out for themselves. I mean, it's just. Right. But for me personally, I felt like I was about to make a deal with the devil. I really did, because I could feel how as soon as I was inside the label, they wanted me to wear certain things, they wanted me to write certain things that really weren't me. But it's all part of a package. You have to become like a character. I mean, even Lady Gaga, she's not Stephanie. She's a character when she plays that role. And I actually was so not interested in being anything other than myself. So I. I knew that ultimately I probably manifested not staying at the. At the label. It was probably, you know, a co creation because it really didn't feel right with my soul when I would go to sleep at night.
- [13:16]
A
Yeah, yeah. And most people don't listen to that. And then they stay in it, they don't confront it. And the longer they don't confront it, more pressure builds up and eventually everybody's forced to confront something.
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B
Totally.
- [13:26]
A
Yeah. It was. Was Interscope Jimmy Iovine?
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B
Yeah. So Ron Fair was my producer and Ron works with Jimmy.
- [13:34]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah. That's awesome. And. And Dr. Dre, I think, was there at some point. Interscope. Yeah.
- [13:40]
B
Yeah, that's right.
- [13:41]
A
Yeah, it's awesome. All right, so then from there you go out and you start this podcast. So take us through the starting. Like, the idea, like that popped in your head that you should start a podcast, and then the execution of it, like, did it take a little while for you to get the courage to do it? Like I. I've been through it myself, you know, and so I'm always interested.
- [13:59]
B
So essentially, once I. Once I got dropped from the label, I wound up getting a job because a friend of mine said, well, if you're not going to do your dream, you should just make money. I was like, well, how do you make money? She's like, you have to be in real estate or finance. I'm like, all right, I'll go into real estate. So, of course, like, the next day, I meet a guy standing in line at the cheesecake factories. It's like, Italian Catholic guy. We're talking about God. And he's like, I work in real estate. I own commercial real estate. You should come work for me. I like your energy. So I'm like, all right, that's my next thing. So I go to work for him for two years. He pays me $200,000 a year. I'm driving my cute little first Mercedes. I'm enjoying going to golf courses. I'm enjoying going to Lakers games. Two years later, I'm, like, looking at myself in the elevator doors, and I'm like, God, you didn't send me to L. A. To, like, have a job that I don't know what I'm doing with. Anyone could do it. Not me. Like, it's not unique to my soul. What am I doing here? So I quit. And my boss, Robert, he was like, I'm proud of you. I knew eventually you would leave, go follow your dream. So I left. And I asked myself the question, which is, is there any other way for me to do music? Is it all or nothing? And I thought, why don't I just become my own agent? Because there's music on all these shows. At the time, there were so many cool indie artists on Grey's Anatomy, and I would hear somebody's song on a Tropicana commercial, and I'd be looking up, whose song is that? Like, why don't I do that? So I started cold calling because I had cold calling experience, real estate. I started cold calling cbs, NBC, and literally, like, I was nervous, but I would, like, do it anyway. And then I would cold call ad agencies. Are you working on Dr. Pepper? What song do you need? Are you working on McDonald's? What song do you need? And so I'd say to, like, I'd call, like, Methune or Olsen Advertising Agency in Minneapolis and be like, yeah, I'm going to be there in October. Yeah, on the second week of October. So can I just, like, stop by? I'll bring you a coffee, we'll talk about what ads you're working on. And they're like, sure, you know, So I would, like. Then I would book a trip to Minneapolis, you know, So I started writing music and it was amazing. I started making like decent money, like 400 grand, 500 grand a year. And then Billboard magazine wrote this feature on me, and then I was featured in the LA Weekly and in Variety magazine. They wrote this full page story. And when those stories came out, people were asking me, how are you doing that? And a friend of mine who's really smart, he's a multimillionaire, he said to me, for everything you do, there's a line of people around the block who want to know how you do it. So he said, for every song you sell, there's a line of songwriters who want to know how you sold that song. I'm like, really? He's like, yeah. He's like, that's a business. You should do something with that. Now that you have these three big full page stories on you, you should do something with that. So I'm like, I don't know what he's talking about. But it like sat in my head. Long story short, I did a workshop in my house like a week later just to see if a few songwriters wanted to come together. That was like a beta test. And then I had never done anything online, but I, like, started an online course in 2016 called Six Figure Songwriting, and it made $2 million that year. There were so many songwriters that wanted to know, how do you license your music? How do you know the music supervisor? What song do you sing? How do you, how do you present it? You know, all this stuff. So I started helping thousands of songwriters, and I was on all these podcasts that were music podcasts, and everyone was like, you should do your own podcast. And I'm like, but I don't want to do a podcast about the music business. Like, I didn't. I didn't come to L. A. To talk about music as a business. Like, I could care less about the music business as a business. I just wanted to be an artist, right? So I was thinking, what would my podcast be about? And I had my third daughter at the time. She was three weeks old. Her name is Maddie. And my friend Amy calls me and she goes, I just had dinner with my friend Maddie. I said, oh, it's funny. My daughter, her name is Maddie. I just named her Maddie. She's like, oh, cute. She goes, well, you should meet with Maddie because she does podcast advertising. For Adam, Carolla. And I just think you guys should talk about starting your own podcast. I'm like, okay, I don't even know what it would be about. So we have a meeting. And I probably met with her because her name was Maddie. Like, it's all synchronicity. There's something about it because I was bone tired, I was not sleeping, breastfeeding. I had a four year old, three year old and a three week old at the time. I had no business started. And she's like, well, what would your show be about? I'm like, I don't know, I'll get back to you. And then I realized living in LA and having a career, people were always so excited because all these creatives in LA have these dreams and then they die on the shelf because they don't know how to be a screenwriter or a choreographer. They just feel like everyone says, you know what, kid? Don't quit your day job. You know what I mean? Like you, you can't be creative and do what you love. So I said, I'm going to start a podcast called don't keep your day job, how you could do what you love. And so I started a podcast to try to use my story to say, look, it's not Taylor Swift or nothing. Like, yes, I might not be a famous pop star, but I'm making really great money and I'm doing something I absolutely love and my songs are in all these shows and I'm having a blast. And you could do something you love too. So I started the podcast and then within, I mean, within weeks, it was like, you know, I was having this conversation today with people that I coach. We think that clarity comes from our head, right? But actually the wisdom that I've learned, the sages say it comes from action, right? So it's amazing how the sea splits after you walk into the. You walk into the water, then the sea splits, right? So God is waiting on the other side of you making a move, right? So so much of it is right here for us. And so all of these people started listening to my show and overnight, like, I took the step with the podcast and then the podcast got featured and then it kind of grew from there. And yeah, I mean, I was just sitting in my closet the first few episodes just talking to myself, but it did really well. And then I got a book deal and then I got, you know, I wrote another book and. But I, like you said before we hit record, I'm just feeling, I feel so blessed. I've learned so Much. Doing a thousand episodes. Like, yeah, I become such a better version of myself sitting and listening to other people.
- [20:19]
A
Yeah. And you have to act. I wasn't the best listener in the world before I started a podcast. You have to actively listen to be able to have a conversation on a podcast. And it's made me a better husband, better father, better businessman, friend, you know, because of the communication abilities that I've been able to develop through this. And it's also therapeutic, I gotta tell you, like, that. Not just the hosting, but when I was. I'm guesting on shows, it. I. You know, you say the same story different ways over and over and over again, and I think something to that repetition of sharing the story of things you've been through and what you've learned and overcome. It's very therapeutic. And I miss it when I. When I take some weeks off from going on podcasts as a guest, I miss it, you know?
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B
Yeah, that's true. It's beautiful.
- [21:03]
A
What did you do when you first started? And by the way, I started in my dining room. I had the background was my wife's design, like, decorations on the dining room wall and all this. And I. And then she said, you got to get. Matter of fact, I had this big giant step and repeat that had my logo on it afterwards. And I'm in the dining room. Just imagine, my wife has a nice dining room. Kitchen's attached. She's like, dude, what do you got? Your. What do you got? This thing's not staying up. I'm like, I got podcasts every day, sweetie. And she. And she. And then they'd be in there cooking and all. I was like, I got a podcast. So she lost it. Not. Not really, but she just like, all right, enough. So she's a real estate agent, so she took $65,000 and built this amazing man cave studio next to our pool underneath the house to get me out of the dining room. So I played my cards right on that one, Kathy. So I've been there. So what did you do when you got started? Because, you know, we always just go after and try to figure it out after we commit and take action. Like, you're saying, what did you figure out about promoting the podcast? And what helped besides just doing the podcast and crossing your fingers?
- [22:04]
B
I mean, what helped? I feel like, first of all, I. I think that the idea that there's something called, like, marketing, like that there's actually, you know, as Seth Godin would say, marketing is really good storytelling. Right. I mean, it's telling the right story to the right person, and ultimately you could hire a firm and you could throw all this money at a project, but if it doesn't connect with people, it doesn't connect with people. You know, I remember when that movie Eat, Pray, Love came out with Julia Roberts, and everyone had read the book, so people were so excited to see the movie, and they threw all this money at the promotion. I just remember. And it was such a bad movie. Not because she was bad. It was too long. I mean, the second episode of Wicked, I just took my kids to see it. We walked out. It was terrible.
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A
Yeah, my kids. My kids said the same thing.
- [22:58]
B
Yeah, it was awful. I mean, the first half was so good. Although nothing comes close to the show. I saw the original on Broadway. I think everybody agrees. Well, at least that says for me. But it doesn't matter the marketing. It matters if it connects. Right? And so, I mean, that's a perfect example with Wicked, because the second one just tanked and they had all the marketing in the world. So I think, for me, what I realized is that when something goes viral, it's not because it has the most celebrity in it. There's celebrities on shows all the time. They're not that interesting. It's not because it has the most, I don't know, informative stuff in it, because there's things that aren't informative that go viral. I think what makes something go viral is the way that it makes somebody feel seen. It's like if something is so authentic and someone is willing to be vulnerable and really crack open. You know, the Talmud says, words from the heart, enter the heart. So for me, instead of, like, trying to. To go viral or trying to be popular is like, my whole mission is about how deep can I go. It's like, it's not about how many listeners. It's how deep can I go with whoever is listening. And even if there's one listener, that's the assignment God's giving me. And when you go that deep, that person. Right. First of all, your soul doesn't even care about downloads, how many downloads, how many. Your soul just cares that you show up and share the message. So when you're in it for that reason, it's amazing how that usually is what breaks things open. It's by letting go of your ego's need for, like, I. I have zero of that. And I think that's what has always helped me, is like, okay, God, you're telling me to do a podcast? Great, I'm going to show up for the assignment. And I really mean it. So I really hesitate to ever do anything that even looks like or seems like or smells like. It's me trying to do that kind of thing where I'm trying to win the popular vote because at the end of the day, nobody gets the award for, oh, you were the most, you know, popular. It's like we get the award for did you show up in the most authentic way and did you treat every day like it was a devotion? Right. And honestly, like, it's a. I don't know, it's much more of an enjoyable journey when you do it that way anyway. But I do think that having those hard hitting, deep conversations makes the podcast grow.
- [25:32]
A
Yeah.
- [25:33]
B
So I think that is the answer. It does. It makes it grow.
- [25:36]
A
Yeah. I agree. I'm an open book and I'm, you know, vulnerability is besides authenticity. Vulnerability is huge. And so many people are so afraid of vulnerability. But you connect with people when you're vulnerable and it's huge. So you wrote the book Abundant Ever After Tools for Creating a Life of Prosperity and ease. What are some of the things that High level, of course, because of time, but what are some of the things that people can expect from that book and get out of it and learn from it?
- [26:03]
B
I mean, I feel like there's a couple things. Number one, I said it earlier in different ways, but I think most people think abundance is piles of things like a Range Rover and first class flights and this and that. And I think that there's no reason that you actually have to choose. I think you can have nice towels and inner peace. I don't think you have to have one or the other. Right. But I don't think that that's actually what we're seeking. I think we have way bigger dreams than piles of cash. I think that our dream is to feel inspired and lit up and feel like we're making an impact every day and feel like we're living on purpose. And so I sort of talk about abundance like that. And also I think that the reason I say ease is because I think people are so married to the idea that life is supposed to be hard. And so it's about hard work and effort. But I actually think when you're in flow, it's actually there's an ease to life. There's a synchronicity to life. Things are just clicking along.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And when it's hard, often it's because you're actually, you know, sort of trying to fit a square peg in the round hole. You're not plugged in, but when you plug into your resonance to your heart, to your soul, and you say to God, all right, let's go. You lead, you lead. You drive. I actually don't think it's hard. Then there's just ease. You're always at the right place at the right time because he's in control. So I. I think that's a little bit of what the book's about. And then the third thing is people do have a really messed up relationship with abundance itself, with money. And so I help them sort of understand that our job is actually to be a steward for as much as possible, as much love as possible, and as much abundance in every way. And so when we're not receiving for the self alone, but when we're receiving on behalf of the whole collective, it's like, just allow. You can allow yourself instead of judging it. Right. You can just allow yourself to be a steward. But that's when I say to people, so. So start practicing that right now. Like, pay for the person behind you when you're in Starbucks. Because when you start showing the creator of the universe that you're willing to be generous with whatever you have right now, you'll have more to be generous with. And that's an unlock for people that they don't usually always, like, get. And all of it, everything I just said comes from the wisdom, you know, comes from, like, biblical wisdom.
- [28:21]
A
Yeah. But, you know, something I always, always, like, conflicted about is we live in a world where you do need money to survive. Right. And you can have enough money to survive, but if you just have enough money to survive, there's always something that can happen in life that sets you back. So you want an abundance of money to survive. These different things that can come up, whether it's a death in a family or sickness or whatever the case is. And so how do you work that in to the whole message of maybe it's not about money, but it is about money in a way? Because when you have a lot more money, there's less stress, less worry. Most, I would think the number one thing people worry about, and they should be health. But the number one thing people worry about is money.
- [29:09]
B
Yeah.
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A
So what are your thoughts?
- [29:10]
B
Well, there's a couple of reasons. Number one, they just recently did a lot of research on this, and they found that the number one reason people have chronic stress, they think it's money, but it's actually about living a life where they're not being true to themselves. But what happens is when you live in a society that tells you that as long as you have more money, you will feel like more inside, then you always think, well, I would finally feel good inside if I have more on the outside. So that's why people are always thinking about money. Because the truth is that we. If we really, really knew what wealth was, we'd be grateful to wake up every day and look at the 19 shades of green outside our window and have a beautiful muffin sitting on a bench and just taking in the absolute ways that God shows off every second. With the birds and the wind and the people you meet and the kindnesses. I mean, it's. We're really, really wealthy. But some people are so poor, all they have is money because they're not really appreciating life. At the same time, what you said, even baked into what you said is like, guilt around. Even. There's like. Even in the question of what you're asking, there's like, shame around, like, well, you need it to survive. It's like, no, no, you're allowed to have all of it, right? It says the Talmud that one of the first questions you're asked when you get to the heavenly gates is to answer for every pleasure that God created in the world that you denied yourself because King David was able to write the Psalms and own an empire. You're. You're meant to create, right? A redwood tree is meant to have a ton of water. Not a little water, a ton. So even the question is weird. It's like a dolphin's not supposed to swim in a swimming pool, it's supposed to swim in the ocean. We are meant to have plenty of what we need, not just so we can survive it. That's. Even the question shows that we've been programmed to have to justify. I don't believe that at all. So I have a good relationship with money because first of all, it's not the end all for me, right? It's just part of it. And I know that God is not on a budget and God's my cfo, and God's like a redwood tree, supposed to have as much as possible. Like, how have as much as possible so that you can do what you really came to do, which is to create impact and to just get busy living and have as much creativity as possible and use that money to do amazing things. So just the question alone shows that you feel guilty for even asking it. I don't feel guilty for sitting in first class because if I fly first class, I get good sleep and Then when I get to where I'm going, I can show up and I can be on assignment. I can be good energy all day. Right. I want my kids to eat good food. I don't want them to eat fast food. It costs more money to eat organic food. That shouldn't be a choice. We should raise our standards and say, just like a redwood tree has this amount of water, this is how much space, you know, a dolphin needs in the ocean. This is how much money is just my baseline. Okay. And so you rewire your sort of imprint for how much you're willing to take in. And it's always there. I say it's like a light bulb. Okay? Some light bulbs have 45 watts, some have 100 watts. God wants to give you infinite. How big's your vessel if your vessel's 45? Okay. You've made a decision. You have some guilt and shame. That's your default. That's your story. With money. It doesn't exist. It's made up.
- [32:30]
A
Yeah. So I agree.
- [32:31]
B
You have as much as possible. Yes, you should have as much as possible, but not so that you start to think that the money, right, is God or that worship finds you.
- [32:42]
A
Yeah.
- [32:43]
B
And there's a lot that, that once you tip into that, that can actually make you feel really poor and depressed because you're like, is this all there is? 5 cars, all the. It feels awful, right?
- [32:53]
A
Yeah.
- [32:54]
B
That's where we want to just put it all into alignment. And then the tap is on. Enjoy it. But it's only there as your baseline. Right. It's like food. You're not eating food to be gluttonous. You're eating food to fuel you to go. Say great things today, create great things today, move as a great parent. That's why you're eating the food. So as long as money provides for the bedrock of all the ways that you can be in flow and be in service, have, have it, enjoy it. And make sure that you, you know, also take. Take advantage of it, that you don't have to deny yourself anything. Right. You can be filled up and then you can share that with the world.
- [33:33]
A
That's a great way to end the show. I'm glad I brought that up because I know a lot of people out there feel that way. And you hear it all the time, all over the place. And we're programmed, like you said, it's programming. I'm always working on that. And, and first step is to be aware and then also being able to listen and, and. And, you know, ask for help with things. You know, people don't, don't. They're so afraid to ask for help with things. Yeah. So I love this. Where can people go deep? Oh, go ahead, Kathy. What'd you say? I'm sorry.
- [33:57]
B
I was going to say. So that's what the book's about. The book is about sort of. I break down in the book all those things about abundance that we can get our head on straight again and we can have a better relationship with abundance with it really is both spiritually and materially. And then just go enjoy your life and serve.
- [34:14]
A
Love it. Thank you so much for being here. Where can people go deeper? Kathy Heller.com.
- [34:20]
B
I'm on my Instagram every day and I post things and that's kind of a fun place. And you can get the book and wherever I'm here, if it feels inspiring, enjoy it. Most of it's out there and it's free content.
- [34:32]
A
And go check out the podcast, folks. It's now changed from the original name to the Kathy Heller Podcast, isn't it?
- [34:40]
B
Yeah, we changed it like four years ago because we've been nine years in, and after five years, I just was ready to kind of like broaden the topic. But yeah, awesome.
- [34:50]
A
All right, well, thank you so much for being here. Appreciate you. And I love your energy. And I want to make sure that I tell the audience here to make sure you follow. Subscribe at the top of your favorite podcast platform and keep coming back. For now, it's C Rock signing off with Kathy Heller on the Woody Made Up Show.