Breaking Barriers and Building Legacies: Mara Dorne on Leadership and Resilience

Summary

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Podcast Summary:

Breaking Barriers and Building Legacies: Mara Dorne on Leadership and Resilience
What Are You Made Of? with Mike "C-Roc" Ciorrocco
Episode Date: February 6, 2026

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Overview

In this episode, Mike "C-Roc" Ciorrocco sits down with Mara Dorne to explore her journey through adversity, her rise in a male-dominated industry, her approach to authentic leadership, and the psychological realities of success. The conversation delves into the truths behind branding, the pressures of responsibility, and harnessing anxiety as a tool for growth—all while maintaining a relatable, candid tone.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Ingredients of Resilience

• Relentless Mindset: Mara attributes her achievements to being “100% relentless,” emphasizing perseverance through life's ups and downs.
  • “I would say that overall, relentless. I don’t care what’s put in my way, I am 100% relentless.” (B, 00:46)
• Early Setbacks and Upbringing: Growing up in Fort Lauderdale, losing her father at age six, and being raised by a resilient single mom shaped her foundational worldview.
  • “You can never use your father’s death as a crutch…no matter what happens in this life, you have to take care of your kids.” (B, 08:20)

2. Navigating Identity and Building a Brand

• Branding Realities: Both Mara and Mike discuss how “all celebrity is manufactured”—behind every success lies intentional work, not luck. Mara admits she only learned the importance of branding recently (about two years ago).
  • “A lot of what you see is nonsense…there had to be a purpose behind it—more than just, you know, an attractive person.” (B, 03:10)
• Leveraging Experience: Mara’s reputation in the health insurance business—a male-dominated field—served as her platform to empower other women.
  • “There’s a lot of women out there that have said, you know, they’ve done this and that, but you’ve actually done it…what do you think about taking your mission…public?” (B, 03:43)
• Cultural Shift in Business: She and her female mentor “changed the demographics”—inviting more diversity and fun into the industry.

3. Authentic Success vs. Surface-Level Credibility

• Skepticism of 'Coaches': Both speakers point out that many self-proclaimed “coaches” or thought leaders haven’t built real businesses.
  • “That kills me. I see it all the time. I’m a coach, but they haven’t done anything to coach anybody.” (B, 05:27)
• True Leadership: Mara draws a distinction between surface-level branding and the substance needed to mentor others.

4. Defining & Overcoming Adversity

• Inflection Point: Mara’s initial failures in insurance sales taught her accountability and self-reflection.
  • Notable Moment:
    • After a failed sale:
      • “I call my mentor: I’m done…the leads suck, you suck, everybody sucks—NOT me.” (B, 14:03)
      • Realizing it was her responsibility led to a breakthrough and subsequent financial success.
  • “It’s not everybody else. It’s absolutely…I made a choice…full belief in myself…by end of the year, I’d made $92,000.” (B, 15:00–16:10)

5. Building and Leading Teams

• From Sales to Team Building: The shift from direct sales to recruiting and mentoring brought immense personal responsibility.
  • “To give that opportunity for others was far bigger than any dream or any paycheck that I could ever…achieve.” (B, 18:00)
• Weight of Responsibility: Both Mara and Mike articulate the emotional burden of being responsible for the livelihoods of team members.
  • “You feel like you have to take care of everybody…it’s the constant pressure…trying to maintain…the image. It’s a tough balance.” (B, 19:50, 21:02)
  • “That is definitely something I’ve never vocalized…the amount of anxiety that you feel because you feel so responsible for trying to help these people.” (B, 21:02)

6. Productivity, Overwhelm, and Fulfillment

• Living at Full Capacity: Mara shares what it feels like to juggle roles—business leader, mother, athlete—with little downtime.
  • “I think I live in a constant state of…how do I freaking do all the stuff that I do?” (A, 22:23; B, 22:57)
  • Example: Managing family, business, and personal life all in a span of days. (B, 22:57–24:01)
• Appreciation vs. Drive: Both speakers reflect on the challenge of enjoying “the gain” rather than fixating on “the gap.”
  • “I feel I’m constantly trying to be present instead of actually being present…that’s what I struggle with.” (B, 24:09)
  • “Are you ever really allowed to look in your trophy room? Because that’s kind of shunned upon...” (B, 24:43)

7. Vision for the Future

• Never Done: Mara admits there’s “always room for improvement”—she perpetually seeks new challenges, from writing a book to bodybuilding competitions.
  • “If I’m being real and authentic, I don’t know that it’ll ever be enough…there’s always room for improvement.” (B, 26:23)
• 2026 Aspirations: Mara’s goals include international speaking and empowering young women.
  • “One of the biggest things...is to be a voice…for this next generation…these girls, to know they are far greater than what social media shows.” (B, 27:39–28:45)

8. Harnessing (Not Hiding) Anxiety

• Anxiety as a Superpower: Mara reframes her diagnosed anxiety as a positive force driving her, not a crutch.
  • “It’s not a crutch, it’s a superpower...when I’m doing something, I’m using it to refocus...You can absolutely lead a team and let that anxiety either run you, or you run that anxiety.” (B, 29:23–30:29)
• Constructing Identity: Mike suggests intentionally creating an identity that doesn’t rely on anxiety for motivation, to which Mara responds with openness—but emphasizes healthy outlets, like the gym, and the importance of the leader’s own example.
  • “Whatever you create for yourself is what you’re going to create for your team.” (B, 31:57)
• Not Overusing Labels: Mara notes, “I think that word [anxiety] is thrown around a lot. You know…No, you have feelings. It’s not depression…” (B, 30:38)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Facing Adversity:
  • “You can never use your father's death as a crutch.” (B, 08:20)
• On Branding:
  • “All celebrity is manufactured.” (A, 01:36)
  • “There had to be a purpose behind it.” (B, 03:10)
• On Team Responsibility:
  • “You feel like you have to take care of everybody…so many people don’t realize.” (B, 21:02)
  • “It’s not work-life balance…I think it’s the difference between trying to be present, and actually being present.” (B, 24:09)
• On Anxiety:
  • “It’s not a crutch, it’s a superpower.” (B, 29:23)
  • “You can absolutely do it without that intense, like, oh, you know, feeling.” (B, 32:01)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Branding and Authenticity: 02:05–05:27
• Mara's Origin Story & Entry to Health Insurance: 08:13–13:30
• Inflection Point & Mindset Shift: 14:03–16:10
• Building Teams & Leadership Realizations: 17:14–19:50
• The Weight of Responsibility: 19:50–22:23
• Managing Overwhelm & Seeking Fulfillment: 22:23–24:43
• Vision for 2026 and Legacy: 26:23–28:45
• Anxiety, Identity, and Leadership: 29:23–32:01

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Closing & Where to Find Mara

• Mara Dorne on Instagram: @Maradorn
• Website: maradorn.com
• Podcast: Boss I’d Like to Follow

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Tone & Style

The episode blends straightforward honesty, humor, and a “real talk” approach, focusing on dispelling myths about success, celebrating grit, and encouraging listeners to reflect on their own journeys. Mara and Mike are unfiltered yet deeply thoughtful, aiming to inspire and equip those ready to break barriers.

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Transcript

[A]

Welcome back to the WIE Made of show. It's your boy C Rock here. I'm with Mar Dorn. She's going to share what she's made of. What's up, Mar? Thanks for joining me.

[B]

How are you?

[A]

I'm doing great. We were just talking about how things have become so intricate and complicated, but yet so easy and talking about maps that we used to have in our cars and driving to appointments and trying to figure out the directions.

[B]

This is so true. Now we're telling our age. Yes.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. I have gray in my beard so people can know, but it's hard to tell how old you are, so I.

[B]

Dye my hair so nobody would know.

[A]

Yeah. Well, welcome. You've had a lot of success in your life. I'm interested in diving in and finding out what you're made of and how you know the ingredients that have gone into making you who you are to get you to do what you're doing. And I have, I have a lot of different avenues I want to go down with this. But Mara, first, what are you made of?

[B]

Oh, I'm made of a lot. I've had a long, I have had a very long journey. It's been, you know, there's been ups, there's been downs, but I would say that overall, relentless. I don't care what's put in my way, I am 100% relentless.

[A]

I like that. That's a good answer. So that kind of tells me that as a kid probably you were stubborn and hard headed in a way.

[B]

No, not me. Yeah, I'm an only child too, so.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. As a kid I used to hear that all the time. And I'd hear it from the elders, older people, they'd be like, man, you think you know everything. And I'm like, well, it seems like I do. I just know these answers. What are you talking about? But you know what, though? As the older I've gotten, I've realized I don't know everything. I just knew a lot. Because you know what, if you keep going in life like that, from your younger age, you start to get humbled.

[B]

Yeah, that's absolutely true. And if you're the person in the room, you probably should get out.

[A]

Yeah, of course. So first thing I want to talk about. Okay. And I, I don't know why I just brought the, you know, this came to mind right away. I've noticed that you've done a lot of good job. A lot of a lot. And a good job with building your brand. And one thing I realized As I was going through my entrepreneurial journey is that all celebrity is manufactured. Most people don't understand that. They think people just fall into it, get lucky. The phone rings and says, hey, I want you on this magazine. Hey, I want you this, I want you to do, you know, whatever. But it's really work that goes in it behind the scenes and you have to know the game. Right?

[B]

Yeah, that's. Yes, that's. I didn't even know what a brand was, to be honest with you. I had no idea. I. I really literally had no idea what branding was. I didn't know the importance of it. I would say about two years ago, two and a half years ago, is when somebody came to me about branding yourself, and I had no idea what that even meant. But, you know, looking backwards or knowing what I know now, the importance of it is absolutely crucial. But there's a lot of work that goes into it. A lot. Yeah, there is a lot of after. It's not just, you know, you appear and somebody makes you look good. Maybe now with AI, they can make you look good. But you know, prior to that, the last two years, I've done. Yeah, I've traveled many, many places trying to build my brand. Absolutely.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Notice that you've done a great job with that. And the other thing is, is that just doing that just being on a magazine or just being on a billboard or what have you really isn't enough. And you know, the people that do those things and don't follow it up and leverage it, they'll blame the people that they paid money to.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

To get that stuff done. Oh, that didn't do anything for me. But did you leverage it? Like, did you. What else did you do with it?

[B]

So, so, okay, so let me real talk here. Number one, a lot of what you see is nonsense. Okay? That is nonsense. You see a lot of people out there branding them, branding themselves, and they haven't done anything. So before I was even comfortable branding myself, there had to be a purpose behind it. Right. There had to be a little bit more than just, you know, an attractive person or somebody that said they wanted to brand themselves. So leveraging, I would say it was leveraging what I had done prior in order to build what I'm trying to build now. You know, coming from a predominantly male dominated health insurance industry is what I use to leverage my brand. And that became, you know, as I grew in the industry, my purpose, you know, aside from there was money was not the purpose. That was never the intention of getting into the health insurance industry. I fell into it when my purpose later began to become was I wanted to give other people, entrepreneurs and then focusing into women, the ability to grow their business the same way that I did because there are so few females in the business. So when it came to branding, how. How it all came about was somebody had come to me, somebody that I know really well, said, listen, Mara, there's not a lot of women in your space that have actually done something serious. Like, there's a lot of women out there that have said, you know, they've done this and that, but you've actually done it. What do you think about taking your mission of wanting to empower women and take it more public? And at first, I'm like, I don't know. You know, I'm like, I don't know. I'm a little too old for this. I'm not into the social media thing. And they were like, well, what if you could positively impact women, you know, throughout the entire world? Would you want to do that? And then I started to think about it. I'm like, yeah, I would want to do that. So it was leveraging what I had done prior in order to, you know, impact what I want to do today, if that makes sense.

[A]

Yeah, of course. Yeah. I. I was very successful in the mortgage real estate business for 20 years and didn't do any of the social media stuff. Same thing. But I had success in business, but nobody knew about it beyond just the team that I built. Right. And, yeah, and then I got into this. This game of podcasting and getting on shows and doing all these other things, speaking on stages, and started to be around a lot of people, and I started to find out that a lot of the people that were really good at marketing and building a presence hadn't done anything.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Or they were coaching and they never built a business before.

[B]

That kills me. I see it all the time. I'm a coach, but they haven't done anything to coach anybody. You know, I wouldn't even feel comfortable. And I've mentored, I mean, I don't know, probably 1500 agents throughout the US but I would not even feel comfortable coming out and saying, I'm a coach. I don't really, you know, that's not really what I was doing. I was building teams and building culture, and in the interim, I happen to, you know, coach and mentor other people. But, yeah, I agree.

[A]

Yeah. And it's. It kind of, you know, pisses you off a little bit if you let it. But. But it's also waters it down. And it's such, you know, this is a dangerous thing in the health and wellness space right now because the Maha movement came about and there's all these biohackers, longevity people, all this. But the ones that are dangerous are the ones that don't know what they're doing, but they're good marketers and they're not afraid to shoot content and what have you. So money part of it, the business side isn't dangerous thing, but health is even more. I'm seeing it all across the board with all the people that we work with at that one. And I try to stay steer clear. And then you know what else I found? I would meet these people that would create these online presences, surface, and. Oh, my gosh. And they were so insecure when I met them.

[B]

Yeah. And I wasn't answering, couldn't speak. All of a sudden, the cameras are off, and now you try to have a conversation and they're it's just like, yes.

[A]

And then. So that, that, that empowered me because I was like, I know I built something. You know, I've. I've gone to zero after building something and build it back again. And, And I just started to think to myself, like, okay, this is you. You actually, when before you know all this stuff, you're putting these people on a pedestal sometimes you're like, geez, man, they must, you know, whatever. And. And then you start to realize, like, they could be knocked off that pedestal.

[B]

Pretty easily so that you can bring that up.

[A]

But yes, yeah, yeah, I. I felt that about you because I know you've had business success and then you did a really good job building the brand. So that's why I wanted to bring that up.

[B]

So that was, that just came later. That was just a bonus to everything, you know, branding. But that was never like, the real intention at all. Zero just came just because now branding is a big thing and you have to have a name behind a face. So that was kind of like the whole thing in the public speaking world. My, My. My PR person was like, you have to write a book. I'm like, I've never written a book in my life. Like, what am I gonna write a book about? So I wrote a book. And then they were like, well, now you have to have a website. I'm like, a website. Like, what is web? And you have to have an active Instagram where you talk about your life every day. I'm like, oh, this sounds like a lot. So it's like, that's really what happened with the whole branding thing? It was never intentional. I just kind of fell with the territory.

[A]

Yeah, but it does make. It makes things easier as you go forward. Right. Because, like, it creates what I call an attraction model.

[B]

It does. It makes you more credible, too, because branding's so big, I think, for. I mean, everybody is branding themselves. I see. I was on Instagram before. I was looking at my father, and I was trying to look for content for him. He's trying to brand himself. He's like 67 years old, and he's trying to brand himself as a lawyer. I'm like, this is so crazy. But, yeah, to give credibility.

[A]

Yeah. Well, where does your story start? Like, before the health insurance and all that. Like, where did you come from?

[B]

I was born and raised in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, by a single mom. My. My dad died when I was very young. He died when he was 38 years old. I was six years old. We were on vacation. And that's kind of, I think, where everything really began. And I didn't even know it. You know, my mom kind of taught me really early on that you have. It's. Things happen in life, but you kind of. You got to move on. You have to. You can never use your father's death as a crutch. And no matter what happens in this life, you know, you have to take care of your kids. And. And that was just kind of the way that I was raised. I was taught that you're supposed to go. I didn't know that people didn't go to college. I thought that's what you were supposed to do. And my mom's dream for me was to become a lawyer. So that's what I thought I was doing. I went to a pre law magnet high school. I have both a master's degree and undergraduate degree in criminal justice. And I thought I was going to be like the next largest, biggest attorney out there, but life has a very funny way of showing you otherwise. And in 2007, 2008, the economy plummeted. And then I was newly married. I had my first child. And as we were losing absolutely everything, he had businesses all over Orlando. There was no money for me to go to school, to law school. So I was kind of stuck. You know, we were making a lot of money. We were fairly young. And all of a sudden, like that, six businesses, six months gone. I mean, that was the same time, like Circuit City, Radio Shack, they were gone like this. And everything was gone. The house, the cars, the Rolexes, you name it. Gone. So I'M like, oh. You know, like, oh, what am I supposed to do at this point? So one of the largest bills I had in my home at that time were my health insurance premiums. I put an inquiry online. A girl told me she can help me, you know, save my rates. She came to my house, sold me health insurance. I never thought twice about it. Monday morning, her boss calls me. I'm thinking it's like a quality assurance call to see how I liked everything. And he invites me in for an interview. I can't even tell you why I went. You can't? No idea. So I show up, and there was, like, an auditorium full of people. It looked like a scam. So I walk in, and there's got this guy in there, and he's talking about health insurance. I knew nothing about health insurance. And I bolted out. I'm like, this is crazy. Like, you know, I have. I have a master's degree. Like, what kind of interview is this? There's a whole bunch of people in here. So I bolt out, and he finds me at the end of the hallway, and he was like, well, what'd you think? I'm like, no. Like, absolutely not. Like, sales. That was so cliche growing up. Like, you did not become a salesperson. It was either a lawyer or a doctor. That was it. So he was like, have you heard of this term called residual income? Like, I don't even know what that is. He's like, look, I can show you a way that you can create a base for yourself that no one can take away from you. Are you interested? Like, I don't know. It sounds really good. He's like, you just have to work really hard on the front end, and then all the fruits of your labor are going to work for you. Like, all right. I mean, I didn't know I was, what I was 25 years old. I'm like, all right. I had nothing going on because no one was hiring me. And that was it. That was the beginning of my journey. I walk in, first day, I take the guy gives me the job, which I should have known right then. There. He gives me the job on the spot. You're hired. I'm like, all right, what do I have to do? You have to pass your. Your health, life, and annuities test. I'm like, all right, how hard can that be? I failed it the first time. Probably should admit that. But I did. But I did end up passing it. And I start, you know, first day, I walk in a room, and there's all these Older white gentlemen. Like what, what's this? A little weird? This is a little strange. My mentor ironically was another female who happens to be also my best friend today. But I walk in and it looked exactly cliche what you would think that insurance people look like. That's how it looked. And, and yeah, that's how it started. I went door to door, business to business, kneecap to kneecap, selling health insurance for the first, I started in 2000. So the, for the first five years until Obamacare came out or the Affordable Care act. And that's when everything kind of changed. But yeah, that's how it started. And luckily you know, my girlfriend and I, we, we became, she was the number one person. She was the first person to eclipse a billion dollars in team sales. I was the second person. We grew this large company, kind of changing the demographics as well as like the ethnicities and you know, the races. We started to bring in people younger. We started to change like the culture where people wanted to come to work. It wasn't agonizing. We made it fun. I always say, like Wolf of Wall street, but much cleaner. But you know, that kind of, you know, high impactful sales. But it was like, it was incredible. You know, it's funny that I say male dominated only because I didn't even realize it was male Dom. I never saw it like that. I just thought it was like, I'm here with my peers, we're having a great time. And then, you know, we went from selling to building. So. So the strategy kind of changed. I wrote people liked me for whatever reason and then I started to build teams that look like me. And then we took it a step further and we built the company even more together. Luckily, you know, I was blessed with a lot of great leaders. My husband happens to be a big game changer in all this too. Helped me go from face to face to online sales and, and yeah, that was my, I mean it's, I don't know how long that took, but that's kind of it. You know, my, my story in a nutshell. Today I'm a mom of three. I'm since remarried. I have an 18 year old daughter, a 15 year old son and a little one that just turned eight.

[A]

Yeah, well, I can relate to this so much. First of all, when you're working out in a hard workout, there's a phase where you go through the third of the workout and you're like, how the heck am I going to finish this workout? Yeah, right. And then you just keep going. You just Keep going. And then you get to the end, you're like, damn. I thought I was only going to make it through the third, you know, And I did it, right? But in business, it's the same way. Like when you're doing these kind of things, especially learning something new door to door, for crying out loud. Did you. Did you have a moment where you got into it? You're like. Like this. I don't. I don't see the way here. Was there a moment?

[B]

There was many moments. I would say one. There was a defining moment, but there was many times I was like, what is going. Like, what am I doing? This is crazy. I'm going to law school. And I remember, like, my girlfriend always laughing at me. Even today, she's like, you still going back to law school? Maybe. You never know. But, yeah, there. There was. There was one defining moment. When I drove. I drove 45 minutes to an appointment. And our company, you have to qualify to get the insurance. It's an underwritten product. So I drive 45 minutes, and this was kind of like do or die, you know, either I was. Because at this point, I'm six months in. I didn't make any money. So I'm six months in, and I drive to this house, and there was, you know, we. There was this guy that opens up the door, and he looked clearly uninsurable. I'm like, all right, maybe I can get the wife. The wife comes equally as uninsurable. So I walk away, and at that point, you got a check in hand. So I walked away with no check, no ego. And I go back to the car, and I call her my mentor. I'm like, I'm done. I'm done. It's not. The leads suck. You suck. Everybody sucks. Not me. It's definitely not me. And she's like, all right, let's just. Let's take it back. Like, Mara, let's talk about this. She was like, did you know the appointment was 45 minutes away from your house? I'm like, no. Okay. Mara, did you go over the pre qualifying questions before you even went out there? I said, nope, didn't do that either. She said, mara, did you offer any other products? So, no, I didn't do that either. She said, okay. So then we hang up the phone, and that's when you have, like, this deep moment of introspection. I remember looking in the, like, rear view mirror, and I'm like, it's not everybody else. It's not, you know, it's absolutely. And at this point, like, we're really in need. Like, we're. We're drowning in debt. So it was that point where I made a choice. I'm like, it's either I go 100% all in because I still had this dream that I was going to law school, and. And I need to have full belief in myself. And the minute I believe that it wasn't everybody else. And I don't know where I fell victim that. Because I grew up knowing that, you know, there's no crutch in life. And that was it. It changed. I went from making nothing to. By the end of the year, it was like, June. And by the end of the year, I'd made $92,000. And that's kind of when it shifted.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. And then once you get that, the momentum starts to build, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And, yeah, so I went through that. We were in a cube farm in the mortgage industry, just like boiler room. And it was a bunch of guys. I think we might have had one girl in there maybe, but. But it was a bunch of guys. It was like a locker room. It was the best time in my life. We had so much fun. And, yeah, I went through all that. And then. And then to. To. To switch to helping other people. Not just your clients, but the other people in the thing. You know, I had a guy sitting behind me, and he always needed help dealing with tough conversations, which the conversations were only as big a deal as he made them.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But he would always be afraid to call the client. And I was like, just give me the phone. And the manager that was at the time wouldn't do it either, because. And he would always like, why. Why don't you make the call? I would just like, give me the damn phone. And then I'd say, let me. Let me show you how to stunt. And then just confront it. Hammer it. Then I started to realize, like, wait a minute. I could teach people this, and I could. They just got to get out of their heads. And then that's when I started building branches and building the organization. So what was that moment for you where you switched from focusing just on clients to, hey, we gotta. We gotta build.

[B]

Somebody came in the. He was. At the time, he was the VP of sales. He came down and he was like, I'm gonna show you guys how to do a recruiting pitch. Like, I'm gonna show you. So I watched him do it. I'm like, wait a minute. I could do. Hold on. I could do this. Let me try. I could do this in my sleep. So I Got up the next day, I said, let me try, I got this, I can do it. And he was like, kind of looking at me only because, you know, I'm not, I would say I'm not like your typical CEO. I don't wear suits all the time. I, you know, whatever comes in my head comes flowing out of my mouth. You just, you just never know what's gonn me. You really literally like a walking reality show. So I'm like, wait a minute, I got this. So I walk in the room and he's like, you only saw me do it once. I'm like, I got it, don't worry. And I get up and the entire room stays. And I'm like, this makes sense. Like I could, I could change so many people's lives. And then I started to see it little by little. Like my, I'm actually my office, my nephew's out there, my brother in law is sitting over there. You know, like everybody that I know, my ex husband still works with me. It's so crazy. And my husband, so it's insane. But the point is, is that everybod that I know close to me works in this industry or works in the company because the opportunity was there. And to be able to give that opportunity for others was far bigger than any dream or any paycheck that I could ever, you know, ever achieve.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. When you start changing people's lives, matters nothing like it now. Now one thing it did for me though is that it put a lot of weight. Well, I, I gotta say, I did this, I put a lot of weight on my shoulders from it because I felt obligated to take care of all these people that were bringing, I was bringing in, and then their families and their, their spouse, their kids and everything. And when things got rough. You talk about 2008. I got in the mortgage business in 2006, right before 2008. Okay. And so we made it through it and we did our thing and it made us stronger and what have you. But still, I felt when we were going through those times like that I'm like, man, I'm responsible for all these people, this and that, but really, in a day, everybody's responsible for themselves. But I, I, so yes, when you had that success and then you start helping other people, you get to a certain image of yourself and that image carries a lot of weight and, and you don't want to let anybody down. And you know, we all go through our own things. And I'm like, man, I got to maintain this image you know, despite all these factors on the outside that affect our business, like the industry, mortgage. That's why I got out of the mortgage industry, because I didn't like the commoditization of it because rates could go up and you could lose 80% of your business and not be able to do anything about it. And that was, that was just not cool for me because I don't like to not be in some sort of sense of control. So. Yeah, so. So that was. Yeah. And so now you're still in the. More in the insurance business still.

[B]

Yeah, I, I think what you talked about just now is the part, I don't think I've ever vocalized that part about it. The pressure, the immense amount of pressure that you have surrounding the people that, not only that you, that you personally bring in, but you know, I do a lot of, I do a lot of recruiting. So these, they're indeed, it really doesn't matter if they're indeed resumes or personal recruits. But I'm just like in my head right now about what you said. Like, I don't think anyone has ever really vocalized or myself has vocalized how that feels, that you feel like you have to take care of everybody. And it's the constant pressure of people wanting from you, needing from you. You're trying to maintain, you're keeping your head above water. I mean, luckily, you know, the insurance business I think for now is, you know, it's been recession proof. It's done really, really well. But you know, what about the times that, you know, I fel. Like not even financially, just in general, where I'm just trying to stay afloat myself, maybe just from everything else that's going around and you're trying to take care of everybody else and maintain the image. It's, there's, it's a tough balance.

[A]

And here's another thing I've recognized recently by the way, being on 1200 plus podcasts allows me to talk a lot when I'm a guest. And so it's like therapy for me.

[B]

So when I'm talking, I never thought about. I like when you said that. I'm like, I like as you're saying that, I literally got goosebumps because that is, that is definitely some. And I talk about everything, but that is something I've never vocalized. The immense amount of pressure and anxiety that it creates. Like you can't even sleep sometimes. Like if, you know, this guy didn't get paid or you know, someone has to get their rent paid or whatever, it Is the amount of anxiety that you feel because you feel so responsible for trying to help these people. It is so overwhelming sometimes that it's not the financial. The money for me is there. It's having to look that person in the eye and then still keep. You know, and then still keep your composure that it's. There's so much that goes into it that so many people don't realize.

[A]

Yeah. And you know what helped me in the mortgage business? As much as I hated it, the money was great. I felt trapped in it because the money was so great. But the homeowners need to get in a house on time, and we didn't have something that we needed from the appraiser or we need something from title, and then we can't, like, we can't turn the keys over because the mortgage people have the keys. Or a real estate agent that's living paycheck to paycheck. And that settlement. They need that settlement that day, you know, And I had plenty of money, but I'm like, I mean, I can't turn the loan over and close it. Clear the loan, because we don't have this stuff. And then they hate you. Oh, man. It's like, all that stuff, it really built me, so.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Definitely overwhelming.

[A]

The other thing I noticed in an aha Moment that I have or some things I go through. Love to hear your take on this is sometimes I'll wake up in the morning and I'm like, how do I freaking do all the stuff that I do? Like, and. And I revert back to who I used to be sometimes. And in my head, and I'm like, how am I doing this? Like, and I start to feel this overwhelmed feeling. But, like, I have it planned out. I have systems in process. I have it all. It's all done. But I still feel this feeling, like, how the heck am I doing all this? You know, I get this, like. I get this awareness of, like, the. The amount of things that are getting done, and it's just like.

[B]

It's insane.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's crazy. Yeah. I think I live like this all the. I mean, I live in a constant state of, like, I ha. You know, it's funny yesterday. So I'll give you a good example. So I'm running right now. It's push week for my team. Right. Which means, like, they. You know, it's a big sales week. So I was in Colorado for my. My son turned 8 years old, and I'm like, all right, let me do this. I have an office in Colorado. So here's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna go to Friday meeting and do their Friday meeting. Saturday and Sunday, I got time to snowbo with three kids. Okay, that works out great. Check, check. Then somehow I have to stop because I still have to be really involved with, you know, the team here to make sure that the numbers are running. Now it's Monday. I don't travel on Monday, so I sent my son snowboarding with my other son. Monday, I'm still running sales. Then Tuesday, we fly back. Then I'm like, oh, no. Okay. Well, now I have to have dinner ready because I cook. I won't let them eat Uber eats during the week. So now we come home Monday, it's five. I mean, this is con. It's. I live in this constant state, but I will say, like, at the end of the day, sometimes I am like, I don't know how I do it, but it does make me feel good that I'm able to accomplish all that.

[A]

Have you had a moment to really appreciate everything you've done and enjoy life and. And. And. And feel fulfillment?

[B]

That's a hard question, I think. You know, I want to say yes, but I. I think that I feel that I'm constantly trying to be present instead of actually being present, and that's what I struggle with. It's not work, life, balance. I don't think that's a real thing. I think it's the difference between trying to be present and actually being present. That's the struggle.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. And the other thing is, I think it was Dan Sullivan that talked about the gap in the gain. We're so focused on the gap from where we are to where we want to be versus where we were and how far we've come.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We never take time to really assess that and appreciate that.

[B]

Yeah. Because you're always trying to move forward. You know, that's actually for successful people. You're not supposed to stay stagnant. But then there's like, that fine line. Are you ever really allowed to look in your trophy room? Because that's kind of shunned upon, you know, because the minute you look in your troph room, something's going to pass you by. So it's a constant. I think that's the biggest struggle. It's not the work. Like, oh, that's could be my next topic. You see? My next real.

[A]

Yeah, there you go. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm a content machine. I'll give you all kinds of ideas.

[B]

This is great.

[A]

Yeah. Make sure he's taking notes. You know, the other thing is too, is that when you are podcasting or creating content reels, whatever, it does give you access to documented where you were at the time so that you can look back. I remember one of the first times after I don't know, four years or something of podcasts and I went back to one of my original shows and I was like, ugh, how the heck did I even think I could continue to do this? And then I listened to one of my newer shows and I hadn't. I hard. I don't ever listen to my podcast. But I did this one.

[B]

No, I never either. It's sad. I don't.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because I don't like that I sound so. I don't want to hear my annoying voice.

[A]

Yeah, that. And then it's like I just listened to that person and we had a conversation, but I don't need to relive it, but, but I listened to one and I was just like, damn, that's good. Like, holy cow. I didn't realize how far I'd come, you know. So, yeah, it's. It's interesting to just observe and assess everything with that. And so right now, going forward, like speaking of the gap and again, the gain, the gap right now from where you are to where you're going, what is it that you are looking to accomplish? Like what would have to happen right now from this point forward to really light you up that it happened?

[B]

I don't know if there's one single thing I don't think that there. I feel like I'm always a work in progress, you know, like my personality is so a type that, like, for instance, you know, it wasn't enough that I was already in this high, this high volume impact sales industry. Then I decided right after I had my son, I'm like, I want to compete, so I'm going to go ahead and compete. So I competed in a bodybuilding competition. Like, if that's right, that's not enough. Right. And then, you know, then I decided like a few years, I'm going to write a book. If that's not enough, you know, then. Then all right, I'm going to. I don't know that. It's so sad to say, but if I'm being real and being authentic, I don't know that I think my personality that I don't know that it'll ever be enough because I always feel like I'm always a work in progress or I can get better, you know, whether it's Being a better leader or a better mom or a better wife, I just feel like there's always, there's always room for improvement and I don't know if that's good or bad. I just think that maybe that's something that I battle with, that I'm, I constantly want more. That's just my personality.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, there's not, well, there's nothing wrong with that. But what is. What like you, you said book, you said, you know, competition. But like what's. Is there something that, for 2026 that you've had that set out that you're working on, like, are working towards that one thing now?

[B]

Yeah, I have a few things, I definitely have a few things up my sleeve that I'm working on a few ventures that I got going on right now to see, see, you know, my next, my next step in life. I definitely. There are a few things going on that I, that I'm super proud of. But I would say like, one of the biggest things that I would like to do is travel internationally, you know, and inspire and you know, and I've been very lucky with my job to be able to travel nationally, but internationally and meet women of all different types of calibers. But the biggest thing I think that not just for 2026, but in general is to be a voice. You know, I have an 18 year old daughter and right now society is so crazy. The world is crazy. The world is absolutely insane. And there are so many things in this world that are great, but there are so many things that are not. And I would say that the one thing that I would love, love to have a big impact on is this next generation coming up, these girls, to know that they are far greater than what, you know, social media shows, this is not normal, that's not real. And just be that voice for that next generation that you can be a woman and do everything. Everything.

[A]

Yeah, I love it. I love that. What final thing I want to touch on is, is anti anxiety leadership. So so many people that are entrepreneurs, they, you know, they feel like they need to struggle, they need to have anxiety or they're not really trying hard enough, they're not setting up big enough goals or what have you. One thing I really work on and, and work with high level people on advising is, is anti anxiety leadership. That, that it is possible and it's actually easier to lead, easier to grow and build when you can handle the anxiety part and put it to the side and just release that.

[B]

Yeah, I really suffer from anxiety. I think I'm diagnosed with anxiety, but I think that the one thing that I also know is that it's not a crutch, it's a superpower. And you can lead effectively. And let for me, the anxiety is a, it's a positive force that drives me. I already know it's going to come. I know that it's there. I already know. So I plan for it. And that's just my personality in general. So I try to use it as, you know, as my superpower. That when I'm doing something that I'm using it to refocus because that's part of it too. When you're dwelling and it's swirling and then it's compartmentalized. You know, you've got a lot of stuff going on over here. There's a lot of stuff going on, you know, whether it's your, your home life or your kids or whatever's going on over here. So I would say that, you know, when you're leading a team, at least for me, everything that's going on over here stops. It stops the minute you walk in the office. And I teach these kids the same thing. You're here. This is your safe zone. And you're here to make money and you're here to create a legacy for yourself. So you definitely can lead a team and let that anxiety either run you or you run that anxiety.

[A]

Yeah. What if there's a way to create an identity that doesn't have that anxiety and, and, and you were even more productive.

[B]

I think we throw that word around too, though. I know even though I really, I really do have anxiety, but I also think that word is thrown around a lot. You know, depression, anxiety. We, you know. No, you have feelings. It's not depression. I think that, that. But I. Yes. I don't know. I think they're confusing that, that when you have, when you're running a high caliber team, there's like high caliber standards and you can run in a effective organization and not feel like this. You can do that. You absolutely can.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. I'm, I'm big on creating the identity that I want and being understanding and knowing that I can create whatever identity that I want. Right. So like, if I want to, if I want to design something new, it's like a character in a movie. Like you can actually draw out this is who. The identity that I'm being. And this identity thrives off of happiness and joy and movement forward, but does not need anxiety to motivate or use. Because by the way, I'm I was like that. Like my mom, my grand. Like, all people, like, they had medication and all this other stuff, and I just never wanted to be reliant upon that. And I used anxiety a lot for motivation and fuel. But then I was like, you know what, what if it's possible that I can create an identity and actually be this identity that doesn't have that, and I go further with it and I just. I just drew it out exactly the way I wanted it. And then I started living it and I'm like, holy shit, I didn't know.

[B]

That you could do this.

[A]

I thought I needed that anxiety because if I didn't, I'd sit on the couch.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. I don't think that you. Yes, I think that people definitely suffer. Like it's a real thing. I don't think you need meds to control. I don't take meds either. I use the gym as an outlet. That's a big outlet for me to control it. Instead of, you know, drinking coffee in the morning, I. I drink the gym. That's my big thing to get, you know, the dopamine going, everything like that. And I do think you can create an identity and whatever you create for yourself is what you're going to create for your team. So if you're creating a high anxiety ridden, you know, atmosphere, that's what your team is going to emulate. So you can absolutely do it without that intense, like, oh, you know, feeling.

[A]

Yeah, good stuff, good stuff. I appreciate you, Mara. Hey, by the way, speaking of the gym, I just did. I'm almost 49. I'll be 49 next week. And I did a PR on front squat today. One rep max, 315. I was pretty proud. The weight felt. You go to the gym some days it feels heavy, you know, it felt like I had rubber legs today. It was wild. I don't know how.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Anyway, get out there and work out, folks. Make sure you're taking care of yourself. Mara, where can people go deeper with you to learn more about what you have going on?

[B]

You can find me on Instagram at Mara Dorn. You can find me on my website, maradorn.com. i mean, just type in Mara Dorn. You'll find it. Or my Bill's podcast boss. I'd like to follow.

[A]

Well, yeah, speaking of that. Yeah, where did that come. Where did you come up with that?

[B]

Oh, so I have a set of girlfriends that I grew up with, and we were literally at dinner one night and they were like, they call me Mara because they're from New York. They're like, Mara, you're like a. You're like a milf. And then my other girlfriend was like, no, more like a Bill. And then it was kind of inappropriate, that one. And then my other girlfriend was like, yeah, boss, I'd like to follow. And that's where it came from.

[A]

Yeah, I love it. All right, folks, go check her out. Mark, thank you so much for your time today. Appreciate you joining us. Hang tight while I wrap this up. That's this episode of the Woody Made up show, folks. Make sure you hit the subscribe Follow button at the top of your favorite podcast platform. Keep coming back. And go check out Maradorn.com and Mar Dorn on Instagram. Until next time, Be that one.