Breaking the Negative Loop: How to Heal Core Wounds and Reclaim Your True Self with Jenn Pinkerton

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Breaking the Negative Loop: How to Heal Core Wounds and Reclaim Your True Self" What Are You Made Of? with Mike "C-Roc" Ciorrocco featuring Jenn Pinkerton – January 29, 2026

---

Main Theme Overview

This episode dives deep into personal development, emotional healing, and reclaiming authenticity. Host Mike "C-Roc" Ciorrocco interviews psychotherapist Jenn Pinkerton about overcoming core wounds, breaking negative thought patterns, and finding purpose by returning to one's true self. By sharing their formative experiences and professional insights, Jenn and Mike offer guidance on self-discovery, resilience, and building healthier relationships, both with oneself and others.

---

Key Discussion Points and Insights

Jenn's Background and Core Wound

• Formation of Identity: Jenn describes herself as a "collection of a lifetime of experiences" that have shaped her unique approach to helping others. Her blend of compassion, curiosity, and connection makes her feel she’s doing what she was "born to do." [00:49]
• Early Loss and Abandonment: The pivotal event in Jenn’s youth was losing her father at age 12, leading to a core theme of abandonment influencing her life story for years. [01:52]
  • "That abandonment was really a pivotal moment in my life… it wasn’t till much later that I understood how that theme of abandonment radiated through everything I did." – Jenn Pinkerton [01:52]
• Storytelling as Defense: Jenn explains that she became a "storyteller," adapting to please others and fit in, which masked her true self and was rooted in insecurity from abandonment. Eventually, she embraced being a "truth-teller." [02:54], [07:51]

Breaking Negative Loops and Core Wounds

• Negative Loops and Authenticity: The stories we tell ourselves—often based on early wounds like abandonment or not feeling chosen—dictate how we show up in life. Authenticity, beyond being a buzzword, involves returning to the fullness of who we were meant to be. [03:04]
• Emotional Inventory: Healing requires taking a truthful emotional inventory, identifying patterns, and honestly confronting one’s wounds. [04:12], [10:18]

Impact of Childhood Wounds

• Core Wounds Shape Everything: Beliefs like "I'm not good enough," "I don't belong," "people always leave," or "I'm not worthy" profoundly affect relationships, career, and self-worth. [06:41]
• Childhood Experiences and Overachievement: Both Mike and Jenn note how pivotal moments in childhood (often around ages 10-12) can propel individuals to overachieve or develop adaptive (sometimes maladaptive) behaviors. [03:43]

Relationships, Self-Discovery, and Healing

• Self-Sufficiency and Safety: Jenn discusses becoming her own source of safety and not seeking external validation or completion from others. [05:18]
• Patterns in Relationships: Both host and guest share how their core wounds led to behaviors like avoidance or seeking approval, whether through people-pleasing, being the life of the party, or avoidance in intimate relationships. [05:54], [10:56]
  • "I was going to be everything to everybody and nothing to myself. Self-abandonment." – Jenn Pinkerton [11:13]
• Changing from Within: True change happens on the inside, not just with external achievements or recognition. [12:51]

Jenn’s Professional Journey

• From Writer to Therapist: Initially pursuing further education to bolster her writing credentials, Jenn found her true calling in psychotherapy, specializing in marriage and family therapy, relationships, and intimacy work. [13:06]
• PhD and Specialization: Jenn is completing her PhD in clinical sexology, which broadens her ability to address all aspects of relationship healing, including intimacy, infidelity, and emotional connection. [15:24]

Healing Core Wounds in Relationships

• Infidelity as a Catalyst: Infidelity, while often a deal-breaker, can also serve as a catalyst for vulnerable rebuilding in relationships—if both partners have "interest and commitment." [17:51], [18:53], [22:57]
  • "You have to recognize if you're going to do this work to heal from this, your old relationship is dead. We are going to build a new one." – Jenn Pinkerton [17:51]
• Self-Responsibility: Healing after betrayal involves both partners examining their own contributions to relational breakdowns, not just blaming the other. [19:14]
• The Impact on Children: The pair discuss how adult relationship choices affect children, emphasizing the importance of not giving your child "a childhood to heal from." [21:04]

Relationship Communication and Growth

• Healthy Conflict: Conflict doesn't mean dysfunction; learning to stay connected during disagreement is critical for growth. [21:49]
• Language of Connection: Jenn stresses the importance of a new "relationship language” for communicating with partners, rooted in vulnerability, compassion, and radical acceptance. [28:18], [29:41]
  • "We have to love the one we're with. Let's figure out how to do that." – Jenn Pinkerton [28:18]
• Whole-Self Wellness: Optimal connection is only possible by balancing mental, emotional, and physical wellness—including addressing issues like hormonal imbalance in midlife. [23:44], [24:38]

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "If we're always telling stories in our head, and most of them are not predicated on anything real, they're just our own negative loops, then what are we doing, you know?" – Jenn Pinkerton [02:41]
• "You weren't worthy, you weren't chosen, you weren't picked… and that's my point. We all have a wound. I don't think there's a single person walking this earth that doesn't have one." – Jenn Pinkerton [09:57]
• "Every living thing either grows or dies. So we have to keep growing." – Jenn Pinkerton [11:25]
• "It's not that we have to change our lives drastically on the outside, it's how we change on the inside." – Jenn Pinkerton [12:51]
• "The relationship with yourself is… the fundamental beginning." – Jenn Pinkerton [17:18]
• "You have to recognize if you're going to do this work to heal from this, your old relationship is dead. We are going to build a new one." – Jenn Pinkerton [17:51]
• "We don't want to give our children a childhood to heal from." – Jenn Pinkerton [21:04]
• "If you spend all this time on physical wellness but don't work on the mental wellness, you're missing one of the greatest parts that is going to accent your life." – Jenn Pinkerton [24:38]
• "I'm a connection expert... how to connect with yourself first, how to connect with other people, and how to make this change in your life that will feel so transformative." – Jenn Pinkerton [28:36]

---

Important Timestamps & Segments

• [01:52 | Jenn’s pivotal childhood loss – The abandonment wound and how it shaped her
• [06:41 | Core wounds in relationships – Impact of beliefs like not being good enough or not belonging
• [11:13 | Self-abandonment and pattern recognition – Jenn describes people-pleasing and losing herself
• [13:06 | Career path toward psychotherapy – Writing, therapy, and merging passions
• [15:24 | Jenn’s PhD in clinical sexology – Rationale and application in healing relationships
• [17:51 | Infidelity and relationship rebuilding – Old vs. new relationships and the need for vulnerability
• [19:14 | Self-reflection after betrayal – Taking responsibility for personal growth even after hurt
• [21:04 | Impact on children – Avoiding generational cycles and the need for conscious parenting
• [22:57 | Ingredients for healing: interest and commitment – Keys to transformation in therapy
• [23:44 | Hormonal health and intimacy – Wellness as a relationship foundation
• [28:36 | Jenn’s unique approach: connection over relationship – Specialization and differentiation in her field

---

How Jenn Differentiates Herself

• Specialization in Connection: Rather than marketing herself as a general relationship expert, Jenn focuses on helping clients build true connection—with themselves and others.
• Intensive Work: Offers transformative "intensives" and public speaking to promote her unique method.
• Integrated Approach: Merges knowledge of attachment, trauma, intimacy, and whole-self wellness for practical, actionable guidance.

---

Ways to Go Deeper with Jenn Pinkerton

• Website: JenPinkerton.com (with two N’s)
• Instagram: @jenbpinkerton
• Upcoming Book: Based on her PhD research

---

Tone: The episode balances raw honesty, humor, and encouraging optimism. Jenn's warmth and lived experience shine through as she encourages listeners to confront their own stories, do the inner work, and reclaim bold, authentic lives.

Recommendation: Highly useful for anyone on a personal growth journey, especially those dealing with past wounds, seeking greater connection, or looking to break destructive patterns in their lives or relationships.

Transcript

[A]

Welcome back to the Woody Made up show. I'm here with my friend Jen Pinkerton, and this is an episode that's been a long time coming. I wanted to share her with you all and find out what she's made of. Jen, welcome to the show.

[B]

Thank you for having me.

[A]

Yeah, my pleasure. You're hailing out of Houston and I got some friends in Houston and I haven't been there, though. It's crazy that I haven't been to Houston before. All the traveling I do been to Dallas.

[B]

You've got to come visit.

[A]

Yeah, I got to get down there especially. I have a friend named Amber. I think I might have told you about her. She's got a studio there. She actually came to Miami to meet me and my wife, but I didn't go to Houston yet, so I got to get to her studio and she's come on down, shoot some podcasts down there, so. But yeah, welcome to the show. Let's get into it. I always start the show with the same question, Jen, what are you made of?

[B]

Wow, I love that question. That's a great question.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

I think that I am a collection of a lifetime of experiences that have position me to be able to help so many people in a different way. I think I. I have this mix of. Of curiosity and compassion and connection that uniquely makes me feel like I'm doing exactly what I was born to do.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's powerful when you're aligned like that. You know, so many people out there living their lives, doing something just to get by and, and miserable, go to work.

[B]

I'm passionate about what I do, and I love it.

[A]

Yeah, that's good, man. Well, usually what I find is people that are in that state where they are aligned, their past has dictated where they wanted to go, you know, and I have a sister that's a psychiatrist. And, you know, I know what we grew up in and stuff that we had to experience. So what kind of thing did you grow up in, maybe? Or what did you experience at a younger age to kind of dictate?

[B]

You're right. I mean, there's. There's nobody that does the work that I do. When you help people heal and you help people grow where you didn't have your own opportunities to do the same thing, I mean, that is something that gravitates people in our industry. And, you know, I experienced loss at a young age. My father passed away when I was 12, and that abandonment was. Was really a pivotal moment in my life that I didn't realize that till later. You know, it wasn't till much later that I understood how that theme of abandonment radiated through everything I did. And it becomes the story you tell yourself is that people will leave. And so for me, I became someone that wanted to be almost a chameleon. I was telling stories, I was a storyteller. Whereas now I pretty much kind of present as I'm a truth teller. This is what it is. This is our life. We have to live. And let's look at our truth so that we can be the best version of ourselves. If we're always telling stories in our head, and most of them are not predicated on anything real, they're just our own negative loops, then what are we doing, you know? So I think that my own sense of loss created this idea of. Of that storytelling. I mean, I was writing people's thesis papers. I was always a writer. I was telling any story I could about anybody else. I told my own stories for shock value, for entertainment. That was what I was. And it took till years later to realize I wanted to step into being my own lived truth and be the truth teller of my life and help people be the truth teller of their own lives. And I think that when we do that and we actually become authentic, not in the buzzword of authenticity, but truly embracing that. Who you are, what you're born to be, what you're born to do. And returning to that, because I think we're all born exactly perfect. So it's returning to what we're supposed to be, I think is so powerful and so transformative. And I feel really lucky and blessed that I figured it out. And that's what I do. I want to help other people figure it out.

[A]

Yeah, well, you know, I was having a conversation with my wife in the car the other day. We. Three days a week, we drive about an hour to take my daughter to travel softball practice through the winter. They practice like two hours a day for three days a week. And, you know, we get a lot of time to talk. And I was talking to her about a lot of the people that I've interviewed that have gone on to do great things, that are overachievers. Had it had a really pivotal moment around 10 to 12 years old. And I hear it all the time.

[B]

It's true. It's just developmentally a time when we are all figuring out who we are. And it is identity branding for us at that moment. And for me, that sense of loss was so crucial. And I didn't realize it, though, you know, at the time, you're just young, and you. You. You're resilient. You move on. I didn't understand the ways and the impact that it had shaped me till much later, and I think that I'm so lucky that I did. And it wasn't luck. It was hard work. It was emotional. Digging in, taking that emotional inventory of myself and who I was and recognizing I just wanted to be something totally different and returning to what I was born to be, rather than this false sense of self, this negative loop in my head, you know, the stories we tell, which are shaming and shitty and, you know, not at all what we want to be.

[A]

Yeah. What. What did. Did you end up having another father figure that stepped in for you?

[B]

No, not really. It was. It was just me figuring it out, honestly.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And I. I didn't look to anybody in that way. And so I think that that also shaped how I showed up in my relationships as well.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so it took a lot of time and work for me to figure out that. That, you know, I. I am safe and I have everything I need, and I don't need anybody else to. To do that for me. I don't need that from any. Anyplace else. And when we do that for ourselves, when he actually can become our own safety, everything we own, need, everything that we. That we need to feel confident, to achieve, to grow, to be compassionate, grounded humans. I think that it can change the trajectory of your life.

[A]

Yeah. How did that show up in your relationships early on? Were you. Were you like.

[B]

I think I was very avoidant. I. I didn't really trust in the concept maybe, of love in the way I felt like all my friends did. I was more of this is fun. And I was a storyteller, and I enjoyed life to the fullest, but I didn't. I didn't really feel to the depth that I wanted to feel. And then later, I had children, and when you have children, that changes things. Just like we're. We're talking about, you know, years a moment ago. It. It. It changes everything. You look at your whole life differently because it's like this opportunity to be different. And I felt I wanted to be different. And that's when I really started exploring myself and who I. Who I am. And now my daughters are about to be 23 and 20, so it's a long time ago, but I felt like that was when my life really changed.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I wanted to do something different. And my writing that I was doing really shifted at the time about, you Know how we're showing up in relationships? Who are we? What are we putting out there? Are we authentic? Are we compassionate and are we emotionally regulated? Or are we just these walking time bombs? And I feel like I was that. And if you have that void and you feel empty from sense of whatever wounds you have, you know, we all have these core wounds. Whether it's like these ideas of people always leave, or I'm not good enough, or I'm not worthy, or I don't belong. You know, those things are so shaping for your entire life. They affect your business so much. They affect you relationally, romantically, so much. They affect your friendships, they affect how you parent.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so understanding those, getting an idea of what I was made of, just like what you're made of right here. And understanding that I could return to something different. You know, I could actually really tap into what I feel is the. The most real part of me. And when doing so, I realized I wanted to help a lot of other people with their journey.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And here I am.

[A]

Now. When you say storyteller, what do you mean by that? That you were a storyteller?

[B]

That. That I wanted to engage. I wanted to have this false sense of self. I wanted to be the chameleon or whatever anybody needed me to be.

[A]

So you're just storyteller, like putting on a. Put on a front?

[B]

Absolutely. Like. Like I can be anything anybody wants.

[A]

Yeah. You know, pleasing them, trying to please.

[B]

People, just to keep them around. It's not so much even pleasing. It's more about being accepted. And I can do, you know, whatever. Whatever it is, I will be the chameleon that will adopt, that will acclimate, that will accommodate. And. And some of that's people pleasing. Some of it's just a sense of I'm going to change everything about who I am for that person or for that experience or for that opportunity. And we're not made to do that. We're not made to be small. We're not made to adjust. We're not made to, you know, accommodate. We're supposed to live bold, big, beautiful lives. And I wasn't doing any of that.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And I wanted to step into my own sense of boldness. I wanted to embrace the personality that matches this hair. I wanted to be the person that I am now. And I couldn't do that then. I was empty in a lot of ways. And so my own journey and positioned me to be able to say, I can help other people do the exact same thing. And I think that when we're stuck in a relationship or we're stuck at work, and we see these repetitive patterns that life is not turning out like we wanted it to be. It is always about the stories we're telling ourselves. It's always about our wins. And we have to go back and figure that out. Because once we understand the why, that's when we all transform. Everybody can blossom into something different. But we have to know why we're doing what we're doing.

[A]

Yeah. Well, so I didn't lose my father to death, but I lost my father to my stepmom.

[B]

So, yeah. You know, they just started an emotional absence.

[A]

It started a new life. Yeah. Started a new life kind of thing. And I didn't see him for 10 or 11 years. And I eventually rekindled the relationship. And then she didn't like that eventually and started causing more problems. So it's just. At the end of the day, it was what it is. But that's a different type of thing. Because now you feel like he's chosen that it's not like he passed away. Not. Not comparing the two. I'm just saying the.

[B]

Sure. But for you, that's. That's that you weren't worthy, you weren't chosen, you weren't picked.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's my point. We all have a wound. I don't think there's a single person walking this earth that doesn't have one. Now, some of us are so highly resilient that we don't really recognize it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Or we just adjust and we try to fix. And we don't think about why that is. But if we do take a little bit of time to do an emotional inventory of our lives and. And we do recognize. How do I show up in all these different ways? I think that there's an opportunity for everybody to level up how they are emotionally.

[A]

Yeah. You know, I didn't drink until I got the. Out of high school. And then I went to college and saw parties and girls I hadn't seen before. Cause I came from a small town. And then I went into that mode of just trying to be that chameleon and be the party guy and know where the party's at and throw parties and this and that.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Yeah. I went through. Did you go through a period of time where you, like, ended up partying a lot and all that because of.

[B]

Not really. That wasn't really my. My mo. It was more just about that I was going to be everything to everybody and nothing to myself.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Self abandonment, you know. Yeah, but. But for you, that aligns exactly what you're talking about, though. If you didn't feel chosen or picked, well, you might be the life of the party. So then you're always chosen or picked.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know?

[A]

Yep.

[B]

We do these things subconsciously. We all do. It's human nature. It's neurobiology. It's how our brain is wired. And we will keep doing it over and over and over again until we make a decision to change and grow. And I'm of the belief that every living thing either grows or dies. So we have to keep growing. We've got to keep searching, we've got to keep figuring it out. I think it's our job to do that.

[A]

Yeah. And once I figured these things out and did the work on myself, and this is after. Even after I built a brand out there, I started not caring about being a celebrity in my space and all this other stuff. I would go to places because I did over, you know, a couple thousand podcasts on both sides of the mic, and I would go to events even when I wasn't speaking at the event, and people would recognize me and then want to take selfies and this and that. And I was just like, yeah, yeah, back in. But my old. My old guy being like, yeah, this is awesome. You know, hey, you know, and acting all whatever. But now it just started feeling like, not. That's not who I am anymore. No, I'll still, you know, still be cool with everybody and. Of course. But I didn't, like, revel in it.

[B]

Well, what I hear you saying, though, is it just doesn't feed you in the way it did. There's nothing wrong with it, but it doesn't feed you. It doesn't have the same meaning.

[A]

Well, I don't mean it. I don't have that same emptiness.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, there's an emptiness that. That was filling a void, and that was a false way to fill it. And now you've come so much into more, probably an authentic version of yourself that you don't need any sort of falsehood to feel anything.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

You know?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that is the difference. It's not that we have to change our lives drastically on the outside is how we change on the inside.

[A]

Right. So. So then, like, how did. When did you decide your track that you were going to go on to being a psychotherapist?

[B]

Well, I was writing when my kids are young. And honestly, I really only went back to get my master's because I thought I could have credentials to command more for writing, have more validity and credibility. But when I went and did that journey, I realized I love holding space for the people. And I recognized that I was uniquely positioned to do that. My ability to connect with people was so strong and I felt like such a blessing for me and a gift. And I wasn't using it and I decided to use it. And now I look back and it was the best decision I've ever made because I've married all the skills and all the things I love to do. I still write, I speak, but I still work one on one with people in a transformative way. And it fulfills me. And I love it. I absolutely love it.

[A]

And are you still continuing to learn and like going through how, like, you know, how in real estate and mortgages, which I was in, we had to do continuing education all the time? They forced you to do it. Right. Nobody, the average people don't do it beyond what they got to fulfill these hours.

[B]

Right, right.

[A]

But when I got into a mode, eventually I was just like a life, became a lifetime learner. I want to learn as much as possible. Right. So what is the track for you now? Like, what are you focused on now as far, as, you know, you're focusing?

[B]

I will be done with my PhD shortly.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Having my master's was not enough. So I went on to get my PhD and I'm about done with that. I have a book that will be coming out from that PhD research and studies, and so that'll be the next kind of path for me. But I think that we have to keep, we have to keep learning. We have to have the curiosity about the world we live in and about how we fit into it. And if we don't keep learning, whether it's by craft, whether it's by, you know, business oriented learning, whether it's personal growth learning, Our brain wants to build that new neural pathway every day. We want to keep figuring stuff out. We want to have this energy and excitement about learning and growing. And so I think it's so pivotal and so important and I'll never stop. I mean, that's for sure. I love also meeting other people that I respect in my field and being able to, I've had the, the, the opportunities with, with my own work to meet people that I respect that are at a, you know, paramount importance in my field. And I've loved that. And the growth opportunities are amazing.

[A]

And what is your PhD in?

[B]

That you're clinical sexology.

[A]

What does that mean?

[B]

Because I, I'm a marriage and family therapist. By. By. That's what my master's track was. And also that includes a lot of intimacy work. And so clinical sexology is that study of that and how it works in relationships. And because I can't help someone with their relationship without looking at all sides. How is your relationship at work? How is your relationship with your best friend? How is it with your mother, your father? And how is it with your romantic partner, either the current one or all the ones you've ever had? How are we with that? And of course, that also has an intimacy component in it. And that's not something that you learn in just a master's program. You have to have that continuing, become a certified sex therapist, and you have to do that. So for me, my specialization in that is helping people heal from infidelity. And oftentimes in the world we live in today, those are these deal breakers. If someone does that, I'm done. I'm never speaking to them again. Versus I think there's an opportunity for some people, maybe not all, but for some people, to explore why that happened. Who am I? What is this about? And there's so much deeper opportunity to grow from that. And a lot of relationships can heal from that and continue on.

[A]

Yeah, and do they talk about their. Do they talk about the intimacy part? Getting to the bedroom more often kind of thing?

[B]

Is it.

[A]

Is it beyond that, too? And how to. How to.

[B]

Yes, okay, all of it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But it's the emotional connection that, that sometimes is just the precursor that becomes the missing link. And you know, men and women, especially if we're talking about heterosexual relationships, that's a huge disconnect because we're wired totally differently. And you know, men have spontaneous desire, women have responsive desire. There's. There's just different ways that that works. And, and if you don't have a healthy intimate life, you're not going to feel like you have a healthy relationship. That's just, that's just part of it. But it's bigger than that. There's infidelity aspects. There's. There's people that use, you know, sex to be able to fill their own emptiness. So there's so many parts of it, but it just aligned with my work that I already do. And so I can work with people with relationships in all ways, you know, and. And I think the relationship with yourself is what it really all about. And that's the fundamental beginning.

[A]

I agree. You know, so in my journey here with all the people that I get to talk to, I get to cover so many different topics. So one of the things that came up a lot of times with people that dealt with infidelity in the relationship, number one, is some of them that went through it and pushed through anyway. It made the relationship stronger. That's number one.

[B]

Absolutely. And it's. It's. A lot of people hate hearing that because they're like, wait, what? Why would that be the thing that would strengthen us? But I tell all my clients, you have to recognize if you're going to do this work to heal from this, your old relationship is dead. We are going to build a new one. And with that building of a new one, it's raw, it's vulnerable, it's exposed, it's highlighting what never worked before, what nobody never talked about, what nobody wanted to address. And now you have the opportunity to address it all, to rebuild it all, to have everything be done from a foundation that is rock solid, to understand why the reasons were that this happened and, and how can you create a different relationship so that it's less likely to happen in the future and to feel stronger and more connected? Because honestly, it's either that or nothing. Right. It's either we're all in and we're going to make this work or we're done. And so I think that the, the impetus to. For such finality is one of the things that pushes people to say, no, wait a minute, I want to explore this to see if this is an option.

[A]

Yeah. And, you know, the other thing. So that's the first one. Great point. But the second one was when the people go through that, I've heard that a lot of them would talk about the fact that the ones that made it right, they would stop blaming the other person that did it, and they would start looking at themselves and saying, what did I do to contribute to the situation? Even though, like, well, that person broke trust.

[B]

That's a hard one.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Because that person broke trust, and that's on them and their piece of crap. Whatever. Most people like, you know, whatever. But, like, what did I contribute to the situation? Maybe that I wasn't providing, that sent them looking somewhere else. Of course, there's always narcissists and sociopaths and people with serious problems that are going to do it regardless.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

But if you can identify that, you know, and take ownership. Here's the thing. If it doesn't work out, you can work on yourself and see what you contribute to the situation to make you the best version of yourself for the next situation. It may come and make Yourself more attractive to the right.

[B]

100% correct. That's right. Because we don't want to repeat patterns. If this relationship ends, we want to enter in the possibility of new relationships the healthiest way we can be. And we have to heal from that. We have to understand who we are, what we did and how we contributed or exacerbated situations. And in times of infidelity, people don't want to look at that. It, it's, it's just like you're saying, it's all their fault now. Sure. Could the person have been more emotionally mature and worked through things together and not gone that route to address what the problem was? Sure. But they didn't. And that's what you're facing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So do you want to roll up your sleeves, do the work, get in there and decide to be raw and vulnerable and see what we can do and make of this, or do you just give up? And a lot of people just, to me, take the easy way out, which is giving up instead of trying. It may not work, but you should try if you can, to explore what that looks like.

[A]

Yeah. And looking back in my life with the, with me being a kid, people don't think enough about the kids and how that's going to impact them in life. And they're very selfish.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And it's all about them. Right. And the kids are affected so much. I mean, I've seen so much in my family, not just not me, but like my extended family. And then seeing how those kids have handled it and they don't have the tools and then they get into drinking and alcoholics or drugs or what have you, you know, and, and it's not.

[B]

Well, we don't want to give our children a childhood to heal from.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

If we can avoid it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We don't. Yeah. But we are human and we're all going to, to make mistakes. But do we learn from them and grow from them and become better or not? I think that's more of the choice you, you have to make. You know, where, where the human condition is to be flawed? We're not perfect people and we can't find or search or get a perfect partner because we will never be a perfect partner. But can we be a partner that is self explorative and self realized and self aware? Can we decide to be emotionally regulated? Can we understand what our wounds are and why we do what we do? Can we create the most healthy language and structure in our relationship possible? And that's what I help people do every Single day.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, even if infidelity is not a part of it. It's just every single day. Do we know how to stay connected during conflict? Most people don't.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And not having conflict is not the answer either because then nobody's feeling what they want to feel. You, you're not going to have that connection with your partner if you cannot have conflict. But can you have it and stay connected? Can you do it in a way that feels still loving? You know, instead of this harshness, can it be loving firmness? Can we have compassion even in anger? Can we stay connected even when we're really frustrated? And I think that's the holy grail, if you want to call it, of where you want to get in your relationship. And everybody can do it. It just takes the work to do so. And everybody's maybe a loose term. Sure. There are people who have diagnosable conditions that are so extreme that that's not going to be possible. Or if you're an active addiction or things like that that are, that are co occurring and limit the ability to grow at the time. But for most people, there's great opportunities there and we just have to be willing to find the right person to help you explore it and to be. Have the interest and commitment to do so.

[A]

Interesting. Commitment to do so is key.

[B]

That's right. The two things I tell everyone, this will only work if you have the interest and commitment to see it through.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

And it's like a temporary discomfort for pot. The possibility of a lifetime of everything being amazing.

[A]

Yep. You ever run across the situation, especially nowadays when where there's a lot of talk and a lot of attention on hormone replacement therapy and making sure your hormones are balanced and all that, because that can impact the relationship so much. And I'll tell you, absolutely, my wife and I went through this and I, you know, I. We go through our day and then by the time we're ready to go to bed, it's like tired, man. We're out of it. Just not. And then, and then we didn't have spontaneous moments because it just, we, we were off. Like our hormones were off. And we had that checked and we got them balanced in the. Man. It was just like, oh, this was the problem.

[B]

You know, like it, it is a huge issue that can exacerbate other conditions.

[A]

Yeah. You bring that up and talk to them about that.

[B]

Yeah. I tell every single client that comes to me if they are at the age where they can be premenopausal or menopausal you have to get that checked. Men or women? Both. It's. If you are at that age where you're going to have a significant drop in your natural, you know, body's hormones and response systems, you have to go medically check that out because that's what you need to do at the same time as we're doing this work too. And it can be something that makes a profound difference because if we don't feel good every day, how are we going to feel good in a relationship?

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Ladies like wellness.

[A]

They may not feel good about themselves and then you're sexy or whatever and then that's right. And the guys.

[B]

How can you be embodied as a, as a feminine embodiment and sensuality and sexuality if you don't feel that way?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so it's so important, and I think that, that wellness in general is so important. I, I, you can, I would challenge anybody who spends all this time on physical wellness but doesn't work on the mental wellness. You're missing one of the greatest parts that is going to accent your life and vice versa. If you spend all the time mentally working on things, but you don't work on your body and your wellness and in all those other ways, it doesn't work. I think that, that we are a collection of all that to be our best self. And so, you know, if medically you've got a deficit, you've got to work on that too.

[A]

Yeah. And then from the men's point of view, like he thinks, oh, she doesn't like me or doesn't want me and has nothing to do with that. But then now, then, then they go through this spiral and there's, then it just gets chaos, confusion and whole mess. So when you're going through working with somebody one to one, are you really good at picking up immediately that there may be an issue where they. Because I've heard stories before when I talk to a lot of people where like they build an emotional bond with you and then it can be in situation that's it's over the line. Like you.

[B]

What do you mean? With me personally?

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Like with a therapist. Right. Like they trust you. There's a bond created and then some people that are really off will like. You ever watch Sopranos?

[B]

Of course.

[A]

Okay. Do you remember Tony and doctor?

[B]

Yes, of course.

[A]

You know, you can pick that up early on with someone. I know that's, I know that's tv.

[B]

But I'm just saying, I mean, of course I, I would see that. But therapists we have excellent boundaries. We have to, to be able to do our work. We have to have the utmost respect for the dynamic that works, which has to be that separation. It has to be these boundaries. And I just don't think, I think that's more so how something that happens in entertainment and TV than it does in real life, because that's something that we would, we would not be able to do our job. You know, we would not be able to excel if that was something that was allowed or happened often. I just think that we know how to have that boundary, how to have that barrier and we know how to stay focused on the work that needs to be done or at least those of us who are, you know, skilled in doing this great work. And I think that most therapists are.

[A]

Well, by the way, I wasn't talking about that part. I was talking about the part of picking it up. That, that it's going to possibly be an issue.

[B]

That's what I'm talking. We can pick, we can see it. Yeah, I mean, it's visible. I think that because what as a therapist does all day long, those nuances in life, whether it is that or any other nuance, we're highly akin to. Yeah, that's, that's, that's our job is to look for that subtleties, look for the nuances, understand people's approaches, who they are. But oftentimes, even if a client was, was. I picked up on that most of the time, 99.9% of the time has nothing to do with me anyway. Of course, it's a sense of, of other things. And so I can immediately hone in on that and immediately address it and. Because if it's happening right there in that room with me, it's happening in other places too, of course. And so how is that affecting your life? And let's explore it, let's, let's face it head on and talk about it. I'm very big on. If we think it, why aren't we, why aren't we talking about it? You know, we spend so much time as human beings having all these thoughts. We think so many thoughts in a day and very rarely express them because we don't know how to articulate them. We don't know how to present things. And that's another part of the work I do is coaching and guiding men and women of how to speak to their partner. It's a new language. You really have to adopt a new language. It's not the language you use in business. It's not the language you use with your friends. It's a different language that creates this beautiful container for vulnerability, for connection, you know, for acceptance, this radical acceptance of my partner. I'm a big believer. We have to love the one we're with. Let's figure out how to do that.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Love that. Yeah.

[B]

All right.

[A]

Well, as the times wind down here, I want to know, as you're writing your book and you're going out speaking, there's a lot of people in this space. How do you differentiate yourself? Besides, your hair.

[B]

Is a big one.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Pretty much.

[A]

Remember being innovative with the topic. You know what I mean?

[B]

You know, I think that my message is a little bit different because I focus from being a connection expert. I don't say I'm a relationship expert. I'm a connection expert, because to me, that's what it boils down to, of how to connect with yourself first, how to connect with other people, and how to make this change in your life that will feel so transformative. I offer intensives that are basically this intense time. We're going to work on it, because I think that's the most transformative work that we can do. And then speaking to large groups, to masses about this to get that message out. I think that my work is very different in that way, and I specialize in that. Whereas a lot of therapists do a lot of other very important things. The. The deep trauma work, depression, anxiety, other aspects, grief work, and I don't work with those. My work is in this containment of. We have to have the most amazing relationship with ourselves, so we can have an amazing relationship with people we love, and we can have an amazing relationship with how we show up at work. Because if you're struggling with. With an avoidant attachment or anxious attachment, I assure you, it will affect you in your job, too.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And most people don't realize that. They view them as two separate things, and that's not the way it works. Our brain doesn't differentiate. You know, we are who we are in every single aspect. So learning who you are and how to pivot, change, and grow to transform into the person we're born to be, I think is the most awesome opportunity anybody could have. And that's how I'm different.

[A]

Love it. Great explanation, Jen. Where can people go deeper with you, Jen?

[B]

Pinkerton.com and that's Jen with two N's. So also on Instagram, Jen B. Pinkerton. You can find me lots of places, and I'm here for you.

[A]

You're gonna have to get the domain Dr. Jen soon.

[B]

Yeah, I don't know. Everybody knows me as Jen. I mean, I just probably won't change.

[A]

You should lock it up, though, just to kick.

[B]

I will make everybody call me that for at least a day or two. I'm gonna make everybody that I see all day long call me that when I get it.

[A]

I love it. Well, thank you so much for sharing today and joining us and spending time with us today. I really appreciate you.

[B]

It was awesome. Thank you so much.

[A]

All right, Jen. Hang tight while I wrap this up, folks. That's this episode of the what do you made up Show. Make sure you hit the subscribe follow button at the top of your favorite podcast platform. Go check out jenpinkerton. Com and keep coming back until next time. Be that one.