← What Are You Made Of?
What Are You Made Of?
Clearing the Noise: How Minimalism Creates Freedom, Focus, and Intentional Living with Kelly Foss
00:29:29
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- [00:01]
A
Welcome back to that one studio on the what are you made of show. It's your boy C Rock. Here. I'm with Kelly Foss. She's going to share what she's made of today. We're going to dive into her story. Kelly, what's happening?
- [00:12]
B
No. So nice to see you today.
- [00:14]
A
Yeah. Thank you for being here. Let's get into it. What are you made of, Kelly?
- [00:19]
B
Great question. So when I think of this question, I think, well, I'm made of a genuine passion for connecting people and also connecting with people. I love being in conversation and especially helping. Helping people discover what really lights them up inside. That is, I always tell all my friends and my family, I always say, oh, that is. My purpose in life is to connect with others and help them see the light. And when I say that, I mean, see, you know, more clearly the things that really make them happy and where they should be spending their time. And I do this by helping people simplify their lives. So I help people remove the excess in their lives so they can see their lives more clearly.
- [01:02]
A
This is huge. I mean, like, really huge, because we are in a mode now where we have so many things coming at us. And I was just. Look, I'm very kind of transparent. You know, I tell stories about what happens in my household. And I was just talking to my wife the other day, and I'm like, we have these two storage units underneath our house, these. These rooms. And I was needing to get to the. The air conditioning unit, the heater, the thing where the filter is. I was going to change the filter. I couldn't get to it. I'm like, babe, we got to get rid of some stuff. She's like, I do. I'm like, we got to get rid of more. And. And I have this thing where, like, the more stuff you have, physical, material things, the less freedom you have.
- [01:44]
B
Exactly. And.
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A
And so when you clear that out, there's some magic thing that happens. You feel bigger.
- [01:53]
B
You feel bigger. There's more space. Yes.
- [01:56]
A
Yeah. So I love this. This is. This is a big deal. This is actually a performance vertical, really, for better performance in life is to clear out.
- [02:07]
B
Absolutely. And I think a lot of people. And I love that you just shared that story, because anytime I tell people that I run a podcast on minimalism, it's really about living a simpler, more intentional life. And who wouldn't want to live a simpler, more intentional life? That's what I always say. But everyone has a story to share, and it usually starts with the physical things, you know, I. Oh, I have too much stuff, and I don't know where to start. And, and that is what I help with on the podcast. I answer all those questions. But you're right, the more things that we have, the less space we have. But then also it's the more things we have to think about. And I think an area of excess that a lot of people forget about is there is mental clutter. There's emotional clutter, there's digital clutter, relational clutter, calendar clutter. There's all these areas of excess that we have in our lives because, you know, our parents, parents especially, were told that the more you have, the more successful you are. But now, as you know, many of us are rejecting all of the stuff, and we want less and we want to simplify. And so that's, that's where we come in and we, we help. So.
- [03:09]
A
Well, most people can just start in their closet and their, Their drawers. Not the drawers that they're wearing, but the drawers where they store their clothes. Yeah, maybe both. But, but, but, yeah, right away. Like, I know when I go into my closet and I, I don't wear these shoes, these, these, these. I don't. These pants ever. They're just hanging there. I feel like I'm going to need them. One time, I'm going to have an event that I'm going to need them, and that event never comes. So I just take the stuff, I put it in bags, and then I donate it.
- [03:34]
B
And, man, so you do.
- [03:35]
A
It's so nice to have empty hangers.
- [03:39]
B
Yes, isn't it? Well, good for you for having the courage to do that. The thing is, a lot of people, they cling to their things, right? And so, and there's a few reasons why. Number one is the item's very expensive. And so it's like, oh, I can't let go of this. I spent so much money on it. The second reason is usually, well, my mom or my sister gave it to me, so there's some sentimental attachment to it. And so people hold onto the items, or it's, what if they're like, oh, I might wear it one day, or I might use it or need it for that one event, but you may not as well. And it might be sitting in your closet and you're looking at every day, you know, and that is, that is physical space, but it's also mental space that it's taking up as well.
- [04:20]
A
When you look at the attention, you're, you're, you're using attention units. Like, if you can measure Attention in Units. We only have so many to use at any one moment in any day.
- [04:29]
B
Yep.
- [04:29]
A
You're actually using Attention Units. Wasting them. Yeah.
- [04:34]
B
Very well said. Yeah. I mean, and when it comes to the. The topics that we discuss, it's everything. It's like how to simplify all areas your of. Of your life. You know, it's not just, you know, the physical things. It's how to better manage the distractions in your everyday so that you can refocus your attention that matters most to you. I think a lot of the time, you know, we're going a certain direction because we have all of this stuff in our homes, all of this excess in our minds, and once we kind of start clearing that out and let's just say we're at a point where we've decluttered it all. Minimalism is really a challenge to really face yourself. You know, if you're alone in an empty room, you have to hear yourself. And for me, my personal story, I started decluttering the physical things, and then I started realizing, oh, I also have to work on myself mentally as well. You know, there's some ideas that I still tell myself that are no longer serving me. And that was hard, but once you get to the other side, it's so rewarding. Like, I actually, I don't seem come across as a shy person, but I was shy. Majority of my life, I was scared to speak up. I was afraid to put up my hand. And now I become the complete opposite because I've removed all those layers and I'm able to fully and finally be myself, which is great.
- [05:53]
A
Yeah. I gotta tell you, man, this is. I'm glad we're having this conversation today because, you know, I use these podcasts to learn myself. Right. And it's. Or remind myself. And this is a great reminder to go back through even, Even. Even my phone. I'll hold my phone up for a minute because this thing can be a problem too. But that first page, look at all the apps on that first page so that when we're just talking about this, I'm just thinking, well, you know what? I'm gonna clear all these out and put them on a separate thing that I don't have to look at every day. And if I need it, I'll go find it, but I'm going to use the ones that I know I need every single day and just. I'm going to clear this out. So that's. That's one thing.
- [06:28]
B
Look at my screen.
- [06:29]
A
There you go. Yeah.
- [06:31]
B
What I do Is I put all of the individual apps into one folder at the bottom of my phone. That way, when I open up my phone, I'm not distracted by all these apps. But then all of these red notifications that are telling you this is urgent, this is urgent, when it's not. Right?
- [06:47]
A
Yeah.
- [06:47]
B
So these are just some of the little things that we can do in our everyday to simplify our lives.
- [06:51]
A
Yeah. Yeah. And. And I practiced this the other day, too. I lost this wedding. Wedding ring. I had 22 years. I'd never lost it once. Okay. And I was like, I know. I put it in the same place every time, and it was gone. And I'm like, this is crazy. Somebody had to have moved it. I'm talking to my kids, like, where'd it go? Did it fall in one of these drawers? Because I put it on my dresser. And then I came to grips. I was just like, okay, it was a piece of material. And even the worst part about it was I had it for 22 years, and I never lost it once, But I came to grips with it. I'm like, all right, if it's gone, it's gone. It is what it is. Let's move on. And I just did it. When I came to grips with it, I put this baseball glove on that I was having to catch. My daughter plays travel softball. We were having a catch.
- [07:34]
B
Oh, wow.
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A
And I felt something in the glove. I'm like, man, something's in here. And I went and shook it, and the ring came out. I was like, oh, great. So I got it back. But I. But I. I learned a lesson to, you know, when you deal with something, this is pretty sentimental. I would say that, you know what? It's a material thing. Move on, you can replace it, and it is what it is, you know?
- [07:55]
B
Oh, okay. Well, I have to say I'm glad that you got to a point where you didn't feel like you lost, like, a big part of you, and you remember that it is a possession at the end of the day, it's. It's really that memory of that item that you really cared about. And, wow. Like, I mean, that's hard. But what I'm gonna say is that once you start letting go of some of the items in your home, it becomes easier to let go of other things. You know? I think a lot of the time, we attach our identity to our things, and that can be dangerous. Right? So when we peel those things or we let go, we donate, we sell those items, we're like, oh, my goodness, we're losing a part of myself, but it's like, no, no, you are you outside of all of those possessions. Right. And that's also why I personally have less stuff, because I don't want to worry about my stuff. The more stuff you have, the more you have to think about, the more you have to worry about. So I have this way of thinking that is keep what you use and use what you keep. So this lifestyle is not about depriving yourself. It is about being intentional about the things that you own and again, keeping the things that you actually use and letting go of the rest.
- [09:06]
A
Yeah. Love it. Love this conversation, man. Well, all right. Well, so how did you get started in this in the first place?
- [09:12]
B
Yeah, so I have an interesting, I guess, background. So I used to be a model. I worked in Hong Kong and Tokyo and lived in LA for a bit. And I had all these interesting experiences and I was connecting with all these interesting people doing various things in various disciplines, and I was really inspired by these conversations or very laid back conversations. So at one point I thought I wanted to be a journalist, to expose these conversations to other people who didn't have access to connecting with these individuals. And then after that, I ended up going into the corporate world because I needed to, you know, work and make money and build my career. And in my career, as much as I did enjoy the career, it wasn't a passion of mine. The passion of buying was always connecting with people and also writing and producing. So finally, in 2018, I left the corporate world and I started this podcast with my best friend, Lauren. So that was seven years ago now, and we were both in career transitions. And how minimalism came about is my co host had always lived simply. And one day I came to her house and it looked like she had just moved in, but she had been living there for almost a decade. And. And I just loved the way she lived. And so I started by decluttering my closet, and then I started decluttering every area of my home, and I started remembering, like, wow, these are all learned behaviors from my childhood. You know, my parents love their stuff, my co host parents love their stuff, and we kind of rejected it. So, you know, magnets on the fridge, carpets around, you know, under the sink, around the toilet, like, all these extra things that I realized I don't need these things. So I started decluttering. And then once my space was kind of empty of all those items, I started working mentally. And I was also really engaged in the podcast world. I ran a personal development speaker series at Shopify in Toronto. It was where a speaker came, talked about their highs and lows in their career, and a lot of podcasters were speaking and I was like, maybe that's my outlet. Maybe that's a way that I can connect with interesting people and share their stories. And specifically, minimalism was a passion of mine at the time and continues to be. And I was told by a wise man in the past, a mentor figure of mine, who said, choose one thing and dive deep into that topic. And when I found minimalism, I was like, this is it. I love it. How to simplify all areas of your life. As we said before, it's how to make. It's not just about the physical and the mental stuff. It's how to manage distractions, how to make better decisions in our world of overwhelming choice, how to avoid burnout, many things that we can talk about. So. And at the end of the day, it's the whole purpose of this is so that we can all spend our time more wisely. Spend our time with the people and on the. On with the people and on the experiences and things that matter most to us.
- [12:10]
A
Yeah, and the journey that you've been on too, I mean, what was it like? You know, what did you see in international? And then of course, LA has got its own vibe and pretentiousness and all that. Like, what are some of the experiences that you had go into those places?
- [12:26]
B
Yeah, I mean, it was pretty amazing. I always say that modeling overseas is a great gateway to see the world and meet interesting people. And for me, it was exactly that. I got to see a lot of different cities, different cultures, see how different people live and that. I think that was the most helpful hearing from people who are living all different types of lifestyles. You know, sometimes when we're stuck in our local community and in our little bubbles, we get accustomed to a certain way of living. You know, I'm in Toronto, Canada. Here, it's, you got to live to work. If you're walking on the street in the middle of the day, what are you doing? Why are you not working? And then I go to LA and people are on the streets all the time because they're working at all different hours. And I realize, wow, you know, I'm in the corporate world at one point after, and I'm like, wow, I'm designing my lifestyle or around my work schedule. And my goal was to design a life. You know, I design my work. Sorry. Around my lifestyle. You know, having that power and control is freedom. You know, having More freedom. I was looking for more freedom and I was looking for the opportunity to connect with people again and share their stories. Because at the end of the day, I asked myself, I'm like, what lights me up? It's connecting with people and sharing stories and traveling and all these things. And I couldn't see clearly when I was in a job that I didn't love. And I had all this excess stuff in my home that was keeping me from doing these things. And now that I live lighter, you know, And I also am very conscious about the things that I buy so that when I travel, I'm not worried about losing them, you know, so, you know, I always say, if you're going to buy something expensive, like, you also have to think about the costs that come with taking care of the item and then also having to worry about the item. So. So there's all these perks that come with living with less. But that being said, you can also really, you can be a multi millionaire and. Or even billionaire and be a minimalist, you know?
- [14:28]
A
Yeah.
- [14:29]
B
It's all about just living intentionally.
- [14:30]
A
Yeah, yeah. And the career of modeling, like, did you decide that it wasn't for you after a while or.
- [14:37]
B
Yeah, yeah. So I had been modeling since I was 16 years old, and I ended up exiting the industry in 2020 during COVID First of all, there wasn't a lot of work, and I was reading a book called essentialism by Greg McKeown, who I've had on the podcast twice now, and he said that we should really focus on the things that are most meaningful to us and let go of the rest. And I at the time was juggling multiple projects, and I said, okay, what should I let go of? Because I had to let go of something or I would have been burnt out. And so I was like, okay, modeling is slow right now, so I'm going to let go of that. And so I haven't been doing that for the past five years. However, a few jobs have come my way recently, so seems like I'm back in it. But, yeah, if the space comes back again, I'll do it again. But I think a lot of people, they're like, oh, I can't do it all. It's like, well, what is of lesser importance? And also I always say, I think this is really helpful for people. Some people, they're working these jobs to make this certain income. But I think it's really important to ask yourself, what is your number? What is the number that actually makes you happy? Because you might need to only make half of what you're making so that you have more time for family and friends and other things that are more important to you. Sometimes we get caught in this cycle of making all this money, but it's like, well, what about your time? The minimalist, his name is Joshua Fields Milburn, and he says that his wealth is not defined by the number in his bank account, but by the spaciousness in his calendar. And I thought that that was so well said. I was like, wow, he's a true minimalist. He doesn't need to buy a boat or go on a yacht or anything like that. That's not important to him. So. But I mean, it's different for everybody. But I just love the way he defined it, that he's like, hey, this was the target that I wanted to make, and now I'm living the lifestyle that's true to me. Not everyone needs to make hundreds of thousands of dollars to live a very happy life, right?
- [16:42]
A
So, yeah, and we have to, no matter what we decide upon, right. We have to be willing to deal with what comes from it. Right. Because there's going to be times like if you set yourself at a certain number, inflation kicks in, health insurance goes up. Right? And if you're not constantly growing a little bit, you're not going to be able to keep up with what I call gravity, which is the economies, which is the inflation, all these different things. So. But if you are a minimalist, you definitely are kind of hedged against it because you don't need much, which is a good thing, you know, so. And then what are the downsides? Did you ever run into any of the wild stories that we hear from acting and modeling and all that?
- [17:22]
B
Like, yeah, I mean. Oh, yeah. I mean, sometimes you see the downsides. I mean, what the biggest downside for me was if you are trying out for something, you know, you. You get rejected a lot. So I used to say that rejection is my middle name. And at the time, I saw that as a negative. But over time, I've seen it as a positive because whenever I get a no, it's easier for me to take. Now I would say something that continues to be a negative is that, you know, in many ways it's all about how you look for a certain client. But you have to remember that every client wants something different. And so, yeah, I think it's a little bit of a pressure to always look your best kind of thing. And I think as a model, you continually feel that. But that's something that I've been able to let go, even specifically with this lifestyle, been able to let go of all of these ideas of who I'm supposed to be, what I'm supposed to look like. And yeah, honestly, if, like, simplifying your life, letting go of all that clutter helps you just be yourself more. And I would say that is the biggest reward that I've gained by living with less.
- [18:32]
A
Yeah. Well, and thank you for sharing that. I think, you know, the most successful models out there, this is like this in business as well, are those that really identify who they are. Right. And how you look on the outside based on who you are, not what other people want. And they found their, this really specific lane that makes them unique. And this is where a brand called that one I created becoming that one. And those that have done that and not caring about, like, trying to please all these different people to get a job or whatever, but they just leaned into it. They became so rare and attractive and wanted.
- [19:09]
B
It's so true. It's because everyone else is trying to conform.
- [19:12]
A
Yeah, yeah. And it's counterintuitive in a way, but, but when you do it and lean into it unapologetically, it just takes off, so.
- [19:20]
B
Agreed.
- [19:21]
A
And by the way, it might not even be in the modeling. Maybe it's like, okay, I was in a modeling space and I was very unique because I just leaned into my own unique style. And then you found out that it wasn't the modeling thing, but it took into a different direction because you stayed true to yourself and you were able to find what that thing is, just like you did with the podcast.
- [19:38]
B
So I would say, like, I, I, I still have majority of the relationships that I met overseas in my life today. And that is so rewarding. I met so many interesting people. And yeah, despite not being in that industry anymore, we're still connected, which is really great.
- [19:52]
A
Yeah. And your network is very important. I mean.
- [19:55]
B
Yeah.
- [19:56]
A
Lead you to other opportunities. So, you know, one of the things on that journey, the modeling, like, you work towards to get a job, and then you get something and you put it out there and they print it, whatever it is. Did you notice that your fulfillment didn't necessarily come from finally seeing it going out there or receiving the money for it, but was really the journey to it.
- [20:17]
B
Yeah. Well, a lot of people will ask me like, oh, do you really enjoy modeling? And I was like, because they'll see the pictures and whatever. And I was like, honestly, like, for example, I just did a modeling shoot. I was one of the models for a Campaign for Marriott's luxury resort collection in Barbados. And it's a video shoot and everyone's like, oh, are you so excited to see the pictures and the videos? And I am. But the best part was me becoming best friends with the crew. We were together for five full days, had breakfast, lunch and dinner together, and that was just the best. Like, I had the. I had a great time, I think, you know, over the past few months, I was really, really working hard in Head down in Toronto and it was nice to just get away and connect with interesting people who are traveling all of the time. So, yeah, it was the journey, it was the process of the modeling experience that was the best, you know? Yeah. You see the photos and it's great. Like, such a talented team. For me, that was the best part. And yeah, I always say modeling is kind of like acting non verbally. Yeah, it's just like, yeah, it's interesting, it's fun.
- [21:22]
A
Yeah. I always look like I've shot tons of content. And including the podcast, I rarely go back and listen to the podcast. It's more the experience of getting the guest and then having them on and then having a conversation and building relationship with them. The end product is for the other people to see. But at the end of the day, I don't, I don't never watch it. I mean, I don't. It is what it is. So I feel like that journey is so important to really and be present to what's going on and take as much out of it. Because this is life. Right? Life is not the playback of it. It's while you're here. You cannot miss the opportunity to take everything in. So now switching to the podcast. Is this what you do for your job now, podcasting?
- [22:03]
B
Yes.
- [22:03]
A
Okay, so switching to that and creating some way to build revenue. Right. And make it a business. Take us through that process. Like when you first started, like, how did that all come about and how did you figure out how to monetize it?
- [22:14]
B
Yeah, so. So again, we're. We're all about sharing how to simplify your life and live with greater intention. So we're very mindful about any products that we promote on the podcast. Like we personally have to use the really enjoy them. And so initially I started partnering with companies that I personally use. So for example, better help online therapy. I've been in therapy for over seven years now and it's been super rewarding to manage my mental excess. And I think that if anybody gets the opportunity, they should jump on it because it is such a Rewarding process. I always say it's great to have a fly on the wall experience. So there's that. And then from there we started getting more brands, which was great. And so I did like host red ads for a while. And then we got approached by a couple of networks. At the time, I actually was helping other brands. I was helping other brands who had podcasts monetize their podcasts or have their podcasts heard and in other podcasts that were specifically business and news podcasts. So I had built relationships with, with all of these podcast networks in Canada. And during this experience, one of the networks said to me, they're like, oh, tell me about your podcast. And I was like, oh, it's called Millennial Minimalist. This is everything you need to know. And two of the four networks approached me and said, hey, we would love to offer you partnership. We want to partner with you. So we, we partnered with the Toronto Star Network in Toronto and we actually just ended our partnership. We want to kind of pursue things on our own for a little bit, but they were lovely to work with and they got us a few sponsorships over the years, so. Yeah.
- [24:02]
A
Awesome. And so was it brands reaching out to you or did you reach out to brands?
- [24:08]
B
Both.
- [24:09]
A
Okay.
- [24:09]
B
Yeah, so we have a lot of incoming, which is great. But again, we really want to steer clear of brands that we are not personally using or that we're not passionate about. You know, minimalism is a sensitive topic in many ways, so we don't want to push anything that we don't believe believe in. But majority is us reaching out. You know, furniture companies, you know, coffee company that we enjoy. You know, my co host and I, we love the same things, we love the same products, and so we, we share the things that really add value to our lives.
- [24:39]
A
Yeah. And then how did you figure out how to charge?
- [24:43]
B
Yeah, so, so yeah, when it came to charging. Yeah, so it's, it's different. Some, some brands have their own way of doing things. They say, hey, this is what we'll offer based on your demogr, your audience and what it looks like. And then, and then others, we will share what it looks like based on our numbers for them and then we negotiate from there.
- [25:04]
A
Gotcha.
- [25:04]
B
So, yeah, it's really just kind of learning by doing and seeing, you know, using ChatGPT, figuring out what's competitive right now. And also from my learnings through managing brands through the four Canadian networks was really helpful to me, seeing what other podcasters are charging for the same to be in the same shows. Or for host red ads in general. So that was really, really good, helpful insight for me.
- [25:29]
A
Yeah, yeah. Experience. You know, a lot of people don't do anything until they figure it out, and then you don't figure it out unless you do something, so.
- [25:36]
B
Well, to be honest. So we've been around for just over seven years now, and we didn't start monetizing until year four, so. So we. We were just doing this podcast without monetizing, because at the end of the day, I'm just genuinely passionate about this topic. And we built an incredible community of listeners around the world, and we're very grateful. I remember our first podcast, episod, recorded in the. In the fields of Florence, Italy, with our iPhone. So we didn't even have the proper setup. And the next morning we woke up to thousands and thousands of listeners, and we're like, wow. Minimalism was particularly a very hot topic in 2018, and it's become even more hot over the years. But we were. We were, you know, we were jumping in it at a really good time.
- [26:18]
A
Yeah. You know, I think I say this a lot, but I made a mistake with. I named my podcast because if you put in the podcast name, something people search for. Yeah, that's huge. And I'm in this game. And I didn't. Well, I just kept the same name that I've had from the beginning when I didn't know, because I had already built some momentum. But if I would have just put something in the name that was a searchable thing in a niche.
- [26:40]
B
Yes. You know, well, sometimes I still think, because we're called millennial minimalists, and so we are millennials, and we are minimalists speaking to an audience of any age. So that's the goal. However, sometimes people will see Millennial, and they're like, oh, I'm not a millennial, but our. Our. Our. Our listeners span across a very wide demographic. So. So it's just something to think about. So at the time, I was like, I don't know about Millennial, but it worked. It's a tongue twister. It's hard for people to say, but yeah.
- [27:13]
A
So while we. We're up against the clock here, I want to make sure I touch on this. What's the vision from here? Like, if you could have it your way, and it worked out perfectly. What does that look like?
- [27:22]
B
Yeah. So. So there's a new story. So my co host of my podcast, she's pursuing a career of helping people declutter their closets. And so I'm going to be the main host or continue to be the like main host of the podcast she's going to be on periodically. But I have this new vision where I also have listeners of the podcast come on and share their stories, because I find that the every say story can help other listeners. So I have this new series, which is really exciting. And then, of course, I'm continuing to interview New York Times bestselling authors in the personal development space, which is so much fun. And my vision is to continue to do this long term. I absolutely love it. I would love it to grow a lot bigger than it. Than it has, but we are growing every single day. I'm very grateful for our listenership. And so my vision is to. Is to be able to continue to do this and to be able to continue to grow every day and to get bigger and better guests.
- [28:20]
A
Yeah, well, I'll help you with that. Okay. I'm really good at that part. So we'll take care of you and help you get some introductions. But. All right, so where can people go deeper with you? Where do you want to send them?
- [28:34]
B
Yeah, so you can check out the podcast at Millennial Minimalists anywhere you listen to podcasts. And you can find us on Instagram and facebookillennialminimalists.
- [28:45]
A
That's it. Kelly Foss, folks. Sharing what she's made of. Kelly, thank you so much for your story and your participation today. I really appreciate it.
- [28:53]
B
Thank you, Mike.
- [28:54]
A
All right, hang tight while I wrap this up, folks. That's the episode of the Woody Made up show with your boy, C Rock. Make sure you hit the subscribe follow button at the top of your favorite podcast platform and keep coming back. I just got notification from Spotify that we were one of the top shared podcasts. We were one of the top listen to podcasts. We've cracked the top 50 on the Apple charts, and I want to thank you all for doing that, for showing up and sharing and continue to do so, please. And go check out Kelly Foss on the Millennial minimalist podcast Tongue Twister. I got through it.
- [29:27]
B
Yeah.
- [29:28]
A
Until next time, be that one.