← What Are You Made Of?
What Are You Made Of?
Curiosity Over Convention: Benjamin Hardy on Terrain Theory, Health, and Personal Agency
00:31:51
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- [00:01]
A
Welcome back to the what are you made of Show. It's your boy C Rock here I'm with Benjamin Hardy. Ben, welcome to the show, man.
- [00:06]
B
Thanks for having me, Mike. Appreciate it.
- [00:08]
A
My pleasure, brother. My pleasure. Let's get into it, man. We start this show the same question every time, and that's, what are you made of, Ben?
- [00:14]
B
It's a great question. You said a word before we hit record and I think it's maybe sums it up, curiosity. I think that's what got me into doing what I'm doing right now.
- [00:24]
A
Yeah.
- [00:24]
B
I'm made up of curiosity, open mind, desire to learn, and a desire to maintain an open mind, despite what we're told, despite what we're told we're supposed to believe, despite the truths that we're supposed to accept, despite what the majority. The direction they're going. It's like, hey, what if? That's that question. What if?
- [00:44]
A
Yeah, I see a lot of books behind you too.
- [00:46]
B
Yeah. They're not all for show. I like to say. I've read most of them.
- [00:52]
A
Yeah, you read a lot.
- [00:54]
B
I do, yeah. No, I do. I think there's a lot of ways to take in information these days. I think books are maybe, unfortunately, going a little bit by the wayside. Right. People can just get their answers. Type it into AI. I hope that books don't go the way of the dinosaur.
- [01:09]
A
Yeah, yeah. I'll read every day and I'll have three or four books at a time and I'll read a few pages each book.
- [01:19]
B
Yeah, you do. Are you, are you doing, are you doing like a, you know, hardcover, like physical book? Kindle?
- [01:25]
A
Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. It could be paperback or, or hardcover, but I, I read, you know, I have them set on my coffee table in the morning, I get a coffee and I'll read the Bible and, and pray. And then I go into reading, you know, two to four books and I'll just read a few pages each book. Yeah. Pick some things up. I'll create some content off of what I'm learning.
- [01:45]
B
Yep.
- [01:45]
A
And share with my network. And, you know, I have a, I have a network called that One Network. It's on WhatsApp. It's got 500 plus members in it. And every morning I'm posting something in there, what's going on in my, in my mind at the time. Right. What I'm picking up. So.
- [01:57]
B
Yeah, no, I find, I find that the, the, the wheels of my imagination spin most rapidly after I've read some pages in a book.
- [02:05]
A
Yeah. Yeah.
- [02:06]
B
You Know, and that's what I. And that's why, that's why I've got them. That's why I keep. I keep turning to them. But there's a lot of wisdom that I've gleaned in this journey around the podcast, the Terrain theory Podcast, the terrain theory that have come from books, come from amazing thinkers, and I just, you know, I'm trying to, like, pass that knowledge on.
- [02:23]
A
Yeah. And, you know, there's something like, if you're in a point, I think as entrepreneurs, we all go through like, hopelessness periods or uncertainty periods or isolation periods. And when I read, I feel like, like it generates hope. You know, you get it. You get it. You can actually increase your emotional tone by, like, picking up some knowledge.
- [02:42]
B
I agree. It's very seldom that I've. I've picked up a book and read it and, and not felt better, not felt more optimistic. You don't, you don't get your head down. You get your head up.
- [02:52]
A
It's so true, man. And reading the right books too, right? You know? Agreed, agreed. Do you do reread books?
- [02:59]
B
I do, yeah. I think, I think some of the, you know, the, like, the nonfiction, I guess, the science type books can be so dense that you're not going to absorb it all in one pass. But also there's some, like, you know, favorite books of fiction that you're gonna pick up again and again and again because you love going down. It's like watching a movie, right? There are some movies that you're like, I'll watch that once a year.
- [03:19]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [03:21]
B
Shoot.
- [03:21]
A
There's some movies I've watched 15, 20 times. Goodfellas, Donnie Grosco, Bronx Tale.
- [03:26]
B
There you go, dude, he got the good list.
- [03:28]
A
Yeah. So what, what is it that you're focused on right now? Like, what's got your attention every day?
- [03:35]
B
It's. It's always. It's always going to be gratitude. I mean, my focus every day is on what are the things that I can be grateful for. It's reframing the challenges that pop up in the day to day, like around my life, my work, as opportunities. Like, they're learning opportunities. I think it's just part of this ongoing and developing worldview. Part of it, a big part of it being spirituality. But there's those two mindsets that you can have. One is a victim mindset, and the other is, whatever you want to call it, it, like a growth mindset. And that is we can look at the bad things that happen in our life. Or the challenges that crop up as like, punishment, some sort of punishment. What did I do to deserve this? And my reframe is always going to be like, thank you, thank you for this learning opportunity. Whatever the universe is throwing in my path, you say you read the Bible, let's say God, whatever God is throwing in my path, whatever pops up is there for a reason. And there's something that I can learn from it, and there's some way that I can grow from it. And that mindset, a lot of that mindset has emerged from this journey into the, into the terrain space, which brings you into consciousness and spirituality and open mindedness. But that's. Yeah. So what's, what's got my attention every day is like, how can I be grateful for every aspect of my day good and quote unquote bad? Because even the bad is like, that's there for a reason.
- [05:01]
A
Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, when I go through some tough times, adversity, I try to get excited because I know if I keep going, something amazing's on the other end of it.
- [05:09]
B
It's always on the other end.
- [05:10]
A
Yeah. But the thing is, is I think you preach all this stuff. We do podcasts, we're talking about trying to help people and giving the stuff, but when you have to go through it, you're like, oh, shoot, I gotta now I gotta, I gotta practice what I preach. Right?
- [05:19]
B
Agreed.
- [05:20]
A
But the victim thing is not the thing that, like, gets me. A lot of times it's, it's, oh, man, what did I do to cause this? Like, what can I do? And what don't I know? There's something I don't know, like, I shouldn't be going through this thing right now, maybe, but maybe I should because I don't know, something. And, and then I get like, anxious. Actually, I'm just sharing my, my truth here. I get anxious because I'm like, man, there's something I don't know, and after all I've been through, I shouldn't be in, you know, going through this particular situation right now.
- [05:46]
B
Okay. You know, and then what are the. Okay, then, then as you're exploring that situation, you're going, what do I, what don't I know? You're, you're trying to find a piece of a puzzle, right? How do you then step back? What is your, what is your process to like, analyze that situation and discover what it is that you don't know that's going to help you get on of that?
- [06:01]
A
Yeah, well, you know, you got to really assess, like, what you're doing every day. Like, first of all, I always go through thoughts. What are my thoughts? Like what are my words? Like what actions? What, what's the actions going on that don't need to be done, that are being done? And then what do I need to add? And then also the, the environment, like who's in my environment right now? Generally what I find is a lot of times there's somebody in my environment that has counter intentions, counter efforts are taking place. And what are those counter efforts and counter intentions? Because you gotta, you know, you gotta be aware of it. The more you aware you are, then you can take action on it. So I look at those four areas and usually gets me back on track. Right. And sometimes, you know, in your business it could be going good to a certain extent and then you go through a lull sometimes because what you're doing is good. But if you keep going, it's not gonna stay the same or grow, it's gonna, you know, falter. And then you gotta sometimes have a wake up call. And that wake up call could be an adversity. And that wake up call, you're like, oh, okay, I gotta, I gotta do some assessment here. Because otherwise everything's going good. You don't take time to assess.
- [07:05]
B
Yeah, right, yeah. When you, and you, I think you touch on an interesting point and that is like a person within your environment, your community, your team who might have a counterintention. An intention is like an energy, right? That's before there's an action. That intention is an energy, an emotion, a thought. That's a hard process like to identify if that's what you've put your finger on. The process of identifying it and then taking action, that's setting up a boundary or maybe cutting that person out. I mean there's that classic like you are the sum of the people that you surround yourself with, right? So you've identified that you're a successful businessman. You know that you can't do anything in isolation. Nobody has ever built a successful business in isolation. It simply doesn't happen. The media loves to tell stories and prop up the one person, Steve Jobs. Right? Yeah, we're going to look at that. But nothing, nothing happens in isolation. If you really want to be successful, you're going to have to have a team around you. So then when you get hit that point where you're like, whoa, what's this? What? Why are we stalling? Why are we stalling out? Who is that one individual? Like that process of identifying and then addressing that's challenging. That can be really challenging. You're talking about human to human. Like, how do you go about that?
- [08:14]
A
Yeah, yeah. That's a science in itself, you know. And first of all, you have to start with yourself, right? You have to start with yourself to make sure those four areas I just mentioned are in alignment with what you set out for your own intention. Like, what's the main thing? And how can I keep the main thing? The main thing? Maybe I'm like, I have my main thing, but then I'm going off in tangents and taking some of my attention and dispersing my attention onto other things.
- [08:34]
B
Great point.
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A
Just pulling. So the counterintention could be these other things that you're getting distracted on.
- [08:39]
B
Yeah.
- [08:39]
A
You know, and then you can go outward and look at the other people in your environment. Right? Yeah, yeah, that's some good stuff, man. And I don't think enough people are aware that they need to do that or they can do that. They feel like that they're helpless, you know, with it.
- [08:52]
B
Well, again, again, this all comes back to that mindset, victim mindset versus growth mindset. And when you address yourself first, that's a, that's something that a lot of people can't do. They are pointing the finger outward. And the folks who could point the finger inward, look in the mirror first, I think are the ones who are going to go the farthest because. Yeah, because probably most often that is the, that is the roadblock, the roadblocks found within. And you mentioned also like your thoughts, your belief systems, what are those patterns of thoughts? Those alone can hold any person back. Right. Self doubt imposter syndrome, whatever it is. And then when it comes, focus, right? Like focus is everything. Like if you've got your focus on one thing, you're gonna, that law of attraction is gonna kick in. I had a friend who was opening a brewery and he was brewing incredible beers. He had an incredible education in pedigree brewing beers. But he wanted to open a brewery. And in New Hampshire you've got to. If you're gonna sell alcohol, you'll start to sell food. And we were in the process of helping him open up his brewery. We were like, well, let's order Chinese food, right? So we're all sitting down having Chinese. He opens up his, his fortune cookie and it says, if you chase two ra, catch none of them. Yeah. And he looks right at it and he goes, beer and food, beer and food. Like if I go after both of them and try to be successful at both, I'M not going to be successful at either one of them. And it just. It was like a great reminder of, like. Yeah, you really do. Even. You can't even divide it halfway. You got to go for one thing, right?
- [10:13]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, now you have the terrain theory podcast, right?
- [10:17]
B
Correct. Yeah.
- [10:18]
A
And also you also have the terrain theory, which is a business, I assume.
- [10:23]
B
Yeah. I mean, when it started out again, this was like five years ago, when the world kind of went upside down with the pandemic. And it had me just asking the question, like, what if I was seeing a lot of helplessness? Right. There's nothing you can do. Helplessness. This is going to hit you. You're going to get sick. Some people are going to die. And I thought, that's just not the way that my mind operates. It's not the way that my life operates. It's not the way my soul operates. I was like, that. That just sounds like disempowerment and a victim mindset. I started just going down, you know, rabbit holes. I was exposed to this phrase, terrain theory. And terrain theory simplification is just that the state of one's terrain, your body, let's say, dictates your health outcomes. Right. It's not the. The outside invader, it's not the pageant. It's. It's. It's the state of your terrain. And when I did some research, classic research on Google Online, I found that there just. There weren't. There weren't sites devoted to this. There was no one. Just sort of like, putting the flag in the ground, being like, this is. We're going to rally around this concept of terrain theory. It had legitimacy. There's definitely science behind it. There are. There's hundreds of years of science behind it, but it wasn't sort of codified. And immediately I was like, I want to. I come from, like, content marketing. I come from the online world, media marketing. And I was like, someone needs to create a website, and then also someone needs to do a podcast. And I was so fired up about it that I was like, that's going to be me. So I started the website to try to assemble some of the resources that existed around this concept. And then I started the podcast with my childhood best friend, who was also sort of going to the same, you know, the same mindset. And so through this podcast and interviewing folks who are in this space, and actually some of them doing the real science in this space, some of them publishing the books in this space, furthering my own understanding of terrain theory, and then hopefully helping folks find, find a site when they're doing their own research where they can just be pointed in the right direction to learn more themselves. And ultimately, for me, like, the concept of terrain theory is one around empowerment. I mean, we tried. My co host, Mike, his name is also Mike, just again, like simplification and branding and messaging. Awareness, agency, accountability. That's it. Like, our catchphrase is, you are your own primary healthcare provider. And one of the things I would do when I would ask, talk to people, I'd wear this terrain theory shirt and they'd be asking me, what's this all about? And I'd go, well, let me ask you a question. Who's your primary healthcare provider? And they think about it and they'd be like, well, it's Dr. So and so. It's Dr. So and so. And I go, no, you are your primary healthcare provider. Health starts with you. This concept of even outsourcing the front line of our health is our problem number one, that we're not even taking agency for our own health. So awareness, what is health? What is disease? Agency. We've got more power, more control over our health outcomes than we think. And then accountability, like, we can't be pointing the finger elsewhere. We have to hold ourselves accountable, accountable for our health outcomes. And that's through lifestyle, nutrition, exercise, who we surround ourselves with, et cetera, et cetera. So, yeah, it was both podcast and then as far as business goes, I mean, I have, I would say, hesitation around monetizing it. This is a scientific concept, Terrain theory, it's not like a catchphrase. It's not a brand. It is a scientific theory. And immediately when I did this, I was like, oh, my God, I've got to, you know, this is a big responsibility. And I will, I will say as disclaimer, like, I am not the ultimate authority on this at all. There are so many incredible thinkers, doctors, folks out there, authors in this, in this space, who are, who are contributing to the collective understanding and furthering the further understanding of this concept. I just happen to, you know, codify it through a website and a podcast. And I'm trying to stay, trying to stay humble and always, always, always not, not getting sucked into any sort of dogma. So whatever I learn, I keep an open mind and I say, I'm going to continue to learn, I'm going to continue to question, because that's what science is supposed to do.
- [14:29]
A
Yeah, and I talk about this a lot. There's. Everybody just doesn't. They don't take agency over their health. They go to their primary care physician or specialist and they, they trust their, their education expertise and without doing any research on their own. Yeah, right. And I, I've ran into some people that have parents that are, have like dementia right now and this and that. And there's so many resources now in biohacking, different things you can do. And they only go to the doctor and the doctor says this, not much what we can do. You can try this and this and this and then they just go with that. And they don't go in beyond and say, hey, well maybe I need to do something like brain tap for example and you know, start meditating or doing some different things and they just don't even bother going that route. And they're missing out. And so many people are expiring, I'll say without, without taking agency. You know, in western medicine, what everybody's taught, a lot of the doctors aren't even bothering to do any further education themselves. They're just trusting everything they learned in school.
- [15:25]
B
Correct.
- [15:26]
A
And then try to move patients through as fast as possible.
- [15:28]
B
Correct.
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A
You know, and if that's their philosophy, then you're not going to get the most, you know, beneficial care from that person. So.
- [15:35]
B
I agree.
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A
So what were you doing at the time when you started the podcast and created the website like for business wise, like what were you doing?
- [15:43]
B
Marketing. Media and marketing. So I was just, I'm working with clients, some of them in already in the health and wellness space, just helping them tell their story. You know, that's, I, I came out of college, I was English and film and I fell right into work with Bob Vila, if you remember Bob Vila, working on his website. And I became over time the editor in chief. So I just sort of understood like content story and then getting it out onto the Internet and sort of parlayed that into a media marketing agency that worked with small businesses who probably needed like a full time market but weren't there yet to come in and just be like, okay, here you, you know, here's, here's how you have to create an online presence and find the people who want to know about your service or your product. You know, it's pretty, pretty straightforward. And so that's why like when I, when I did my own research and I didn't see anything for terrain theory, I was like, holy, holy crap, there's an opportunity here and I have a skillset to like at least in the digital space, get this thing out there, get this message out there.
- [16:43]
A
Yeah, yeah. By the way, there's definitely synergy for us to talk about, like, what you're doing with that.
- [16:48]
B
Let's go.
- [16:49]
A
You're still doing this stuff with the ME Media and marketing, right? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, we get. There's definitely synergy for us to talk about. I'm always actively listening for opportunities to help people. Right. I said that before we started the show. And yeah, I can definitely help you out with some things there.
- [17:03]
B
It'd be amazing. The timing is. Here's the other thing that my co host, Mike, and I say all the time. Like, there's just no coincidences. Yeah, there aren't coincidences. And you're. Again, like, you're reading the Bible. You know, you have. You have this, I assume, a spiritual connection. Like, you know, like, you know, there's no coincidences. Everything's happening at this time for a specific reason. So you and I, you know, meeting right now, I look at it and go, okay, what. What's going on here? Let's go.
- [17:27]
A
Yeah, I'm the same way. I, you know, so I do these things. Ben called 15 minis, where I'll do podcasting too, but, like, I'll do five to eight 15 minis a day, which are like short networking calls with perfect strangers.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Right. And, you know, that's five times five is 25 to 40 a week with perfect strangers. Right. And, you know, the reason I'm bringing that up is I'll. I'll listen to them and what they're working on, and I can't tell you how many times they say, I don't, I don't. And by the way, I'll send DMS on Instagram to people that interest me, and they'll say, I don't answer my DMs, man. For people that I don't know. But there's something that I had to. I just had to hop on a call with you.
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B
Yeah.
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A
There's something about like this, and it's because I have a clear intention and I'm authentic.
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B
Yeah.
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A
You know, and I can't tell you how many times I've heard that, but I, I do believe that now if we're not intentional or we're not clear on our intentions or we're not being authentic, then. Then there's misalignment and they may not take the call. They may get on the call and not, you know, there's no vibe, you know, alignment. And so, yeah, I agree with that 100%, man. And so your. Your co host, is he in marketing Too.
- [18:32]
B
No, he's a musician.
- [18:34]
A
Okay.
- [18:34]
B
Yeah, we, like I said, we were. We were childhood friends, went to middle school, high school together. Stayed in touch. We were in a band and he is a full time, just also open mind, curiosity, you know, curious and wanting to be the best version of himself he can be. And, you know, obviously, like, if you don't have your health, you have nothing. Right. If you want to start someplace, like, you got to start with your, with your health, with the physical vessel, the mental, you know, you get that, get that all straight in alignment and he's on that page. That's, that's the journey he wants to. He's committed to. And so, so am I. And we're both just curious fellows.
- [19:05]
A
Yeah. How often do you do a show a week?
- [19:06]
B
Yep. Once a week.
- [19:07]
A
One a week. One a week.
- [19:08]
B
Okay. Yeah, yeah.
- [19:09]
A
Do you only shoot one a week or do you shoot more and just release one a week?
- [19:11]
B
Just release one a week. Sometimes, you know, it's like three a week. There are those weeks where it's like, okay, this is all I'm doing. And that's where it's come to. It's like I started this as like a passion project, truly, because my day job was like working with other clients. Right. And I'm at the point now where I'm like, I. This is, I've got my, I've got a skill set and I also have a passion. And you know, the Venn diagram, that's the overlap of it. And this should be really the thing that I'm doing full time. It really should.
- [19:35]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, and it feeds it. So what is the podcast done for you in personally and business?
- [19:42]
B
Personally, everything. I mean, I'm a different person. I'm a completely different person than I was five years ago. Physically, emotionally, spiritually, like, I'm absolutely 100% different. My entire worldview has changed and shifted. Where I've gone from that, again, that victim mindset, like I'm going to get sick because I'm in an elevator with a person coughing to like, I am in total control of my health outcome to the point where it's like, it's not just that I'm in control of myself, but I can, I can with confidence, start to then, you know, with other, with the other people in my, in my community, in my network, my family, educate them and empower them. And I feel fully confident in doing that. Yeah. And then now you're just, now you're just basically having. Helping rewire a person's belief System, which is where it all starts.
- [20:29]
A
Yeah. And the thing about being in an elevator with somebody that's coughing and sneezing and what have you, yes, you can get sick from that, but there's something going on inside already that, you know, makes you susceptible to react to that virus or whatever the case is. But if you're not in a susceptible state, so to speak, it won't bother you at all.
- [20:49]
B
That's the. And that is the first step. That is the first stepping stone that I took. That's the first stepping stone I found myself on when I dove into this space. And that's where I was. I was this middle ground that it's, you know, the microbe is nothing, the terrain is everything, is what the. Antoine Bechamp, who founded Essentially Terrain. Terrain Theory said, or Claude Bernard, his contemporary. The microbe is nothing, the terrain is everything. And Louis Pasteur, who's the father of germ theory, allegedly said that on his deathbed, he recanted all of his findings and said, bernard was right. The germ is nothing, the microbe is everything. And so that's the first stepping stone. Anyone who gets into this space usually arrives at that point that, like, oh, yeah, okay, we've got these things going around us. But if I get my terrain, you know, aligned, balanced, healthy, I'm fine. It's almost like you're walking around like Superman. And then there's more layers to the onion to peel back. And I won't push back now because we don't have enough time. But, you know, when I walk into. Again, when I walk into an elevator and there's someone sneezing, I have zero fear. And it's not because of the reason you said. It's because I peeled the onion back far enough to go, okay, there's way more. There's way more here that's happening.
- [21:54]
A
Yeah. Think about. Yeah, think about this. Like, whether it's an animal, a zebra, or whatever, germs are live organisms.
- [21:59]
B
Right?
- [22:00]
A
Right. So if it's a zebra, if it's a type of tree, it's a type of bird, it's a type of flower, the terrain matters. And you won't find certain animals and certain plants in certain terrains because it's. It can't. It's not susceptible to growth there. Yeah, right. So it's the same thing with our bodies. You know, our bodies are like the earth.
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B
Right.
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A
We have different. It's a. It's a terrain, like you're talking. So this is making a lot of sense to me at First, I didn't understand it when I saw terrain theory, but then now that we're having this conversation, it's making tons of sense to me. And then how about for your business? What's the podcast done for your business?
- [22:34]
B
Well, the business of terrain theory.
- [22:36]
A
Yeah, that and. Or the marketing business.
- [22:38]
B
Yeah. Connections. Networking.
- [22:40]
A
Yeah.
- [22:41]
B
You know, you fall in with folks who are also in this space who are running their own businesses, and you go, hey, I could see that maybe my services could be of help to you, and I love that. I've really enjoyed taking on those kinds of clients because we're already in alignment. You know, they're already in a space where they, like, we have alignment on empowerment. It's always, always, always about empowering people. And I find that that's what they are offering from a service or product standpoint. And we're already aligned on this, you know, this terrain thing. And so you've got that synergy right out of the gate. And some of them have been people who've come on the podcast and, you know, they're like, you know, here's what I do. I sell courses or I sell these products. I'm like, let's. I've got a skill set here. And then we, you know, we talk and I. I try to help them along. And that's awesome.
- [23:23]
A
Yeah.
- [23:23]
B
From my own, like I said, from my own standp. Very slow to try to monetize this because I want to be cautious. I think one of the downfalls, the pitfalls of health in general, modern medicine, is the tie in with profit. So a patient cured is a patient lost. Right. So anyone in this allopathic system has a financial incentive to keep you sick. When a patient comes into your office, you want to keep them on medication for life. You don't want to cure them because now they're no longer paying you. And so we like it or. Or not. We have a system in healthcare. And this also applies to natural practitioners, naturopaths, they're in the same boat. They've spent a lot of money on their education. They've got to pay those bills, the loans back. They've got to make money. And so they need patience. And if they cure those patients, they're not coming in again. So we have a real issue there with health being monetized.
- [24:22]
A
It's an embedded conflict of interest.
- [24:23]
B
It is an embedded conflict of interest. Thank you. So when I look at monetizing this thing, I'm like, well, I don't want to be guilty of the same thing that would make me a h. Hypocrite. So I've been very cautious about how and when I monetize this. And I feel like there's a time and a place and there's a way to do it from like an authentic standpoint. Right. A heart centered standpoint where I'm not taking advantage or being untrue to the mission.
- [24:46]
A
Yeah. But here's the thing. There's a difference though.
- [24:48]
B
Go on.
- [24:48]
A
There's Forever Medicine and then there's medicine to get people to take agency and be healthier themselves without relying on those things. So I don't think that there's a conflict of interest in monetizing what you're doing versus Big Pharma, for example.
- [25:00]
B
No fair.
- [25:01]
A
So, so I, you have to take your, you know, go up higher in altitude and look down on the scene.
- [25:06]
B
Yeah.
- [25:06]
A
And realize that you're not the same as Forever Medicine.
- [25:09]
B
I know. I need that reminder. I do. I need that reminder because I was forever medicine.
- [25:13]
A
100%.
- [25:13]
B
Yes. Yeah. And I think. Well, part of that, and then part of that for me is the education, like the conversations that I have on the podcast, that is, that is the service. That's part of the service is to build this audience, have these conversations with folks who are in this space to just provide more information, more empowerment and you know, to more inspiration to the, to the audience. How, how you monetize that. Like, obviously there's, you know, you're, you're a podcast host, you know, there's a million ways to monetize podcast work. And then there's obviously like anything else you, you create in the back.
- [25:41]
A
Yeah, but, but I will tell you, the network. Well, f. First of all, we got that point right. You're different. It's not the same.
- [25:46]
B
Yeah.
- [25:47]
A
So if you're looking at that perspective from Forever Medicine, of course, yeah, be cautious. But you're not there. So it's no, there's no ethical conflict of interest.
- [25:53]
B
You.
- [25:54]
A
And matter of fact, I think you're doing more harm then good. Being cautious, because what you can do for people and the impact that you're committed to is phenomenal. So the more you hold back. Right. The, the, the, the, you're, you're feeding into the Forever Medicine thing because they're.
- [26:10]
B
Not going to stop.
- [26:12]
A
Right. They're hammering.
- [26:13]
B
No, that's true.
- [26:14]
A
So, yeah, I mean, that's, that's a, just a different perspective to take, you know.
- [26:18]
B
No, I appreciate that. You know, my head's wrapped around this for sure. I mean, you know, going into 20, 26. It's like, this is it. That, let's go.
- [26:25]
A
Yeah. And then the other thing is the network you mentioned. So most people do podcasting because they want to get known, which is great, and they want to leverage someone else's audience, or if you have your own show, you want to bring people in and meet people and give them exposure and then whatever. But the networking part for podcasting, me being on over 1200 podcasts in the last five to six years doing a thousand episodes of this show, the networking has been the most valuable part of podcasting. You could have a show that has no listeners, and it's so valuable if you have a line person on the other side of the mic, like, yeah, right. And for me, that's what I try to get across to the people that I'm around is, hey, network is everything with the right people. And so, and also podcast hosts are some of the most connected people on the planet. And those guests that are coming on shows that are serious about what they're doing are some of the most connected people on the planet.
- [27:12]
B
True.
- [27:13]
A
You know, and so I'm glad you hit on that because that's a super valuable thing that most people miss. You know, I get a lot of people that are like, you know, they've done very well. They're, they're doing their thing out there and they want to get on ropes.
- [27:23]
B
Hogan. Yeah.
- [27:24]
A
They want to be on the number one shows, and that's it. And, and it's like, you guys are missing a point. Sure, there's benefit to that, but the key really, for the, the everyday person out there, it's not a celebrity, is consistency.
- [27:35]
B
Yep.
- [27:35]
A
On the right aligned shows.
- [27:37]
B
Yeah.
- [27:38]
A
Right. Or if you have a podcast, consistency with the right aligned guests, it doesn't have to be a celebrity guest.
- [27:42]
B
Yeah, no, I'm with you. I'm with you. I, I, and, and we don't become, we're not that selective. Like, we don't go through folks who come to us who want to be guests, and we also don't pick guests based on, like, their social media account. We don't. We follow our instinct. We're following breadcrumbs. We're following our intuition. We're following our curiosity. We find the folks who we feel are going to speak to the question that we're asking in our own lives. Because the thing that Mike and I have done is, like, really embodied this journey. I mean, we have a guest on who talks about fasting and the benefits of fasting. We're like let's go. We're going to do seven day fast. And we do it, and we share our experiences with our listener. Every podcast we have, we have a guest on. We talk to them, we have a conversation, and then guest leaves. And the last 25 minutes of the podcast is our after party, where Mike and I just download what we just learned, and then we give the listener heads up on like, okay, we're seven days into our water fast that we started at the end of the last episode. Here's how it's going. So we're sort of like bringing the listener on our own personal journey because we're really embodying this whole impeccable terrain thing and.
- [28:50]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [28:53]
B
And so. And so back to the point. Like, yeah, we're not going after those huge guests. And I'm also not trying to get on Joe Rogan. Like, that's not my goal. In fact, on the website, I don't have my name on there other than the podcast section. Like, because I don't. I want the idea of terrain theory to be way bigger than two people who are podcast hosts. Like, I can't impress that upon everyone enough. I don't want it to be about me. I've never wanted. I've never wanted to be famous doing this. I simply want to push forward the conversation around terrain theory, be part of that mission to push this forward and empower people.
- [29:28]
A
Yeah, I get it, Ben. I was the same way for a while. But let me tell you something.
- [29:30]
B
Yeah, go on.
- [29:31]
A
Just from knowing you and from the conversation we're having right now, you are a different person. Like, a different type of person. You have a uniqueness about you. Right.
- [29:41]
B
And that's powerful.
- [29:42]
A
And if we hold back from people knowing us, we could be the person, the personal brand, could be the thing that leads people into terrain theory. And you might be missing a lot of people because they could vibe with you, bro. Like, you have this uniqueness about you. You're authentic and genuine. And the way you're approaching this whole thing in the first place is, like, attractive. Right. So you could be missing an attractive arm to terrain theory by just. Just being, you know, trying to be behind the scenes, so to speak, of the big name company.
- [30:12]
B
Yeah.
- [30:13]
A
You know, this is. This is just my observation from it. I mean, I. I see a lot of value in. In you personally.
- [30:18]
B
No, I. And I. I appreciate that. I think there's a. There's a part of me that has instinctively pulled away from, like, the influencer culture. I look at it and I Go. You know, everyone is. Everyone is being their own personal brand, and sometimes it just gets a little bit. But you're absolutely right. You're correct. Like, they're. They're. That is the entry point for everyone to. Anything is the personal. The personal connection. The personal connection. There's a reason why a brand like Adidas uses athletes as spokespeople because they need that personal connection with the market. Yeah. Right. So that. I mean, that's every. That's every one of us. Where do we make connection? We make it with humans.
- [30:57]
A
Yeah.
- [30:57]
B
We make it with humans. We don't make it with brands, especially.
- [31:00]
A
With the AI now and everything and coming out. People are craving human connection.
- [31:03]
B
I think they are.
- [31:04]
A
So we're up against the clock, Ben. Where can people go deeper if they want to learn more?
- [31:08]
B
Yeah. Terraintheory.net is the best place that'll have all the jumping off points for social. Instagram, X, Facebook, YouTube, all the podcast episodes you can find on terraintheory.net and then, of course, any of the podcast platforms. You'll find us there as well. Awesome. Anyone can shoot me an email at any time. Bennintheory.net, ask some questions. Yeah. Yeah.
- [31:31]
A
All right, go check it out, folks. Go check him out and the podcast out as well. Ben, thank you so much for your time today, man.
- [31:36]
B
I appreciate you being here, Mike. I appreciate you having me on.
- [31:39]
A
All right, Hank, Ty, while I wrap this up, that's this episode of the what do you Made of Show. Make sure you go hit the follow or subscribe button at the top of your favorite podcast platform. Go check Ben out, and until next time, be that one.