← What Are You Made Of?
What Are You Made Of?
From Monk to Money Manager: Douglas Lynam on Purpose, Wealth, and the Psychology of Money
00:35:19
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- [00:00]
A
Welcome back to the Woody Made up show. It's your boy C. Rock here, fresh off our quantum expansion trip to South Florida. What an amazing event. Amazing people that we get to hang out with. And if you don't know about that, go check it out at that. The number one. That. The number one. Quantum.com. you can check out what we're doing over there. I have my friend Doug Lynem here today. What a story that you're gonna hear today. I'm excited to share him with you. Doug, welcome to the show.
- [00:25]
B
Thanks, Eroc. Great to be here, man. Thanks for the invite.
- [00:28]
A
Yeah, man, my pleasure. And you know, I see you got your books back there.
- [00:32]
B
You've.
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A
I see the word money, I see the word manager, I see the word monk, and I also see monster and taming. So I'm excited about this conversation. We're going to get into some things here. So let's start with the question, what are you made of, Doug?
- [00:44]
B
I'm made of wow, I guess I would say curiosity, courage and creativity. The curiosity to go where, to find, be open to whatever the universe wants to throw my way wherever my imagination and interest want to take me. You know, the courage to, to make big pivots in life and take big risks and see what adventures lie ahead. And then the creativity to make those pivots in a sustainable and semi graceful way. Not always, but we. Plenty of face plants along the way, but seem to be able to have managed it so far. Pretty well so far. Yeah.
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A
I'll say. And I love that you have this experience as a monk. Of course, we'll get into that. Have you seen the monks that are walking?
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B
Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Amazing what they're doing.
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A
Yeah. We have one of the members in our group that went out to visit them and support them and he came back and now he's going back again, meeting them in D.C. fabulous. Yeah, his name's Singh, the guy that's in our group, and he actually spent a year with the Dalai Lama when he was 14 years old.
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B
Wow.
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A
And yeah, so it's, it's pretty cool stuff. And he's familiar with Taoism and, and wanting to support their mission. So it's pretty, pretty amazing. Yeah. So, all right, so where's the story start for you? Obviously you were a marine. Thank you for your service, by the way.
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B
Thank you.
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A
Yeah, just take us back, man.
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B
Well, you know, it's, it's a long story, but you know, like all of us, it all starts in childhood. You know, there's always those pivotal Moments in our youth that, that shape us and form, create our personality and create, you know, put us on a unique path. And for me, it started in a, you know, family that had relative abundance in, in terms of where most people are at financially. But it felt from my childhood perspective, like money got really weaponized. It was used to. For manipulation, for control, or for my parents to get back at each other when they. My parents divorced, of course, I was about 6 or 7. And of course that. That share of the family and created a number of, of course, seminal and pivotal moments in my life. But I really kind of rebelled against my brothers and I. We all kind of rebelled against how we were raised for various reasons. And I first went off looking to do something different by going off to the Marine Corps. I went to officer K at school and then graduated, taught my class. But then I realized that unresolved anger issues and high explosives were a bad combo. So I went looking for a different. Like, if I was going to leave the Marines, what would be a. What would be a higher calling? What, what could be something that would give me. What I loved about the Marines is the camaraderie, the esprit de cor. Sense of purpose, but maybe without the blowing people up part. So I, I did what any sensible person would do. I ran off and joined a monastery. And it was a great way to flabbergast my parents. And really, it was really an act of rebellion in many ways. I wasn't raised in a religious household. I was looking for the meaning of life. And I didn't, I didn't join it with a particular faith. I was sort of looking for some faith or looking for some meaning. But I also thought, you know, I get to leave this money thing behind forever. But then in an ironic twist.
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A
Wait a minute, wait a minute. Hold the note on the ironic twist. That's what we're going to come back to. How do. How, like, what does it take to be top in your class in, in officer school?
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B
Well, I mean, there's. There's three sort of categories. One is physical fitness. So, you know, getting 100 on the physical fitness tests. Rock. And all, you know, all the physical assessments. So there's a physical component, then there's an academic component. So it's maybe 25% physical fitness, 25 academic, and then 50 leadership.
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A
Okay, got it, Got it.
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B
Okay.
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A
And then how long did you stay in the Marines?
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B
Well, I did. I didn't go active duty. So I thank you for thanking me for my service, but I don't Quite deserve that. Oh, not. I did not go active duty, but they. I finished all my training, and then they sent me back to finish. I had to be an officer. You need to finish the training, and you need your college degree. So I had a year left of school to finish up, so they sent me back. Back to do that, but they weren't paying for school, so I had no commitment. And then I. That's when I decided to pivot to the monastery.
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A
Okay, got it.
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B
Okay.
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A
And then the monastery. I want to know more details, like, so how did that come up in the first place? And then where did you go? Where was that?
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B
Oh, it was a Benedictine Catholic monastery in Santa Fe, New Mexico, called New Sabasio Community. And that was where I says where it was at. And I had a mentor, my thesis advisor for my senior essay in college, who liked what I was writing about spiritual adventure, and thought that I had some curiosity around that subject, obviously, and thought that maybe. And he also had served in the Marines in Vietnam and made me read every book on the history of the Vietnam War to make sure I knew what I was getting into.
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A
By the way, I loved. When I was a teenager, I loved Vietnam.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Books, movies, documentaries. There was a show called Tour of Duty. Do you remember that?
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B
I don't know.
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A
Oh, yeah, it was. It was a drama. But, yeah, man, I. I watched it all. After some reason, it just drew me in.
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B
It did. It was fascinating. Like, China beach was a good show back in the day. You know, so many others, so many good books on that. And that in that era, we were warriors. Once was a really important book for me. Finding Cacciato, was it Cacciato? I think that's the name of the title. Many others that just sort of made me. So. I love the Marines, and I trusted the Marine Corps, but I didn't trust the political mechanism that was in charge of the Marines. And so I wasn't completely. Completely convinced that we had learned our mistakes from the Vietnam era and that we weren't going to repeat that. And so my intuition turned out to be correct, because otherwise I would have gone right off into the Iraq and Afghanistan war. You know, that would have been right in that time period, shortly after, I.
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A
Would have been, here's the thing. It may not have been that we didn't learn from mistakes. It may be that we don't know the intention, the true intention, and they accomplished what the intention was. Yeah. You know, and as you go into Iraq and then now we're dealing with now and all this, like, There's a. There's a. A, you know, a real intention to keep wars happening. Right, right.
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B
Eisenhower is. The military industrial complex is warning about that, which is very real. Like, we're. We have this profit motive to keep the war is as long as the bombs are dropping, somebody's making a profit. And that's. That's a real problem.
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A
Yeah, yeah. So I just want to point that out. But, yeah. And so you didn't align and you had this. This. This mentor.
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B
Mm. Yeah. So basically made sure I knew what I was getting into, and I just had this doubt. I just. I was. I was on the fence. And so I thought, well, let's. Let's make a hard pivot. Let's try something different. And also, I think part of the reason was I. Part of the reason for joining the Marines is, you know, I want to prove I was. I was a manly man who could do manly things and trying to impress my dad, and it didn't matter. He was too much of a. Bit of a narcissist to care. So I realized I wasn't going to get the approval I was looking for through that medium, them. So, you know, I went trying to find my own way.
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A
Gotcha. And so you were led to this place by your mentor, the specific place. Yeah, exactly. And then you decided, okay, I'm gonna. I'm do this. And then you go, what. What was that like? You. You go and walk in, or. How does that work?
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B
Well, no, it's not that simple. I mean, is that, you know, the process? Right? There's. Yeah, it's called the, you know, a postulancy. And you present yourself to the community and you live with them for a few weeks, and you leave, and then there's a, you know, a novitiate, maybe six months, and then you leave, and then you come back, and over three to seven years, there's a window where then you can take your final vows as a monk, which I did. And I kind of just thought it was going to be experiment. It really was more like grad school. I didn't. I didn't go into it expecting a lifelong commitment, but. But once I got there, it kind of pulled me in and became. Felt like a compelling, compelling way of life. And so I stuck it out for. For 20 years.
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A
And. And what was it? You. You study the Bible in there as well? Because it was a Catholic.
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B
Yeah, it was Catholic, but we also studied all. We were very ecumenical, so we studied all primary Christian, of course, but also all faiths as well. I felt like there was a lot of cross cultural lessons to be learned. Our community at one point even took a trip to India and spent some time at an ashram there. So very open theologically, but. But very grounded in Christian faith to be sure.
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A
Gotcha. Okay. And then you go there and you're living there and basically what a monk is, is you voluntarily renounce worldly pursuits to live a life of prayer, contemplation, and in some traditions, manual labor or service.
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B
You got it. That's it.
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A
Right. Thou, poverty, chastity and obedience, dedication yourself to the spiritual.
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B
All things.
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A
Yeah, yeah. So yeah, I mean, what was going through your head when you first got there and started like realizing what you got yourself into?
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B
Well, it was, I mean, you know, it was sort of like a, I would say it was kind of like a marriage where you, where the beginning is, you have this honeymoon period where it was great. And then I say the first five, ten years felt really, really were fantastic. And so many very. A lot of growth, a lot of wisdom being shared, imparted. And then last 10 years kind of got a little, got a little, I would say scrollic or rigid and I, I just felt like I wasn't growing anymore and. And then eventually I ended up leaving, of course, but which was a very hard transition out. So the beginning was great, the middle was bumpy, the end was really rough. And that's a really oversimplifying a complicated 20 year process.
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A
20 years?
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B
Yeah.
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A
Oh my goodness.
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B
And then, and then the really ironic thing is that about three years after I got there, the monastery went bankrupt. So someone had to. That's how I end up in finance. Eventually kind of got into the financial world is because, you know, we all hated dealing with money. And I realized that we were all had this really negative attitude towards wealth and towards finance. And we were basically drove ourselves. We took the vow of poverty just a little too seriously, I guess, and someone had to sort that mess out and it fell into my shoulders. So I, for whatever reason, many reasons, mostly because I raised my hand, said all, but I realized I couldn't do much of a worse job than my predecessors. So the bar was low, expectations were low, but I did pretty good job with it and managed to sort that mess out. But that really began my education in the world of finance and really curious about like the psychology of money and even the philosophy and theology of money. Like how do we bring our financial life and our spiritual life together in a healthy way? Because we certainly weren't doing it initially in the monastery.
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A
Yeah, and the whole philosophy when it comes to money is get money, keep it and multiply it.
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B
Yeah, well, that's. Right.
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A
That's really when it comes down to when you break it down. Right. So how did you guys in that situation get money?
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B
Well, we were a teaching order, so I was the chair of the mathematics department at a fairly prestigious private school. We were all. We all income as teachers and then donations as well. So that was our main revenue source.
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A
So when you made money as an individual, you gave it to the.
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B
Everything was communal. Right. So the ultimate communist society, if you will.
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A
Okay, well, communists society could work in a small situation where everybody's dedicated and committed.
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B
Yep.
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A
And then you don't have power trips and egos and.
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B
Oh, you still have power trips and egos. That's the problem.
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A
That's it. Yeah. I was gonna say, if you don't have that, it works.
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B
Right. But you still. Even in a monastery, you have those things, unfortunately.
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A
Yeah. And so then. Okay, get money. And then how did you figure out the best way to keep it and multiply it for the monastery?
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B
Oh, well, you know, it's just the basics of earning, saving, investing. And then I think the next part is giving. I don't think it's just keeping it. It like putting it to use to something meaningful in the world. Like, how are you using? Yes, you need enough to take care of yourself and others, but how do you deploy it in a way that actually is making the world around you a better place? And so mostly it was cutting. Well, we went through bankruptcy. We had to. We had to restructure all of our debts. We had to, you know, basically make. Make more money, bring more in, and then cut our expenses and then restructure the. The debts that we were under. And then eventually took a couple years, but we're able to basically, better budgeting was part of the biggest problem, I would say.
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A
Yeah, well, and by the way, giving is part of keeping and multiplying because you can't be open to receive if you're not willing to let it flow. It's a currency. Right. It's got to flow. It's an energy. It's got to. So where, like. Let's talk about giving for a second then. An overall philosophy of this, you know, based on what you've learned. Should you be giving before you build up, you know, a firm foundation? And where does that fit in?
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B
Yeah. So I call it the four pillars of finance. So the four pillars are going to be earning, saving, investing and giving. So that in that sequence you have to. You have to follow it in that order.
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A
But have you heard of. But wait a minute. Have you heard of people say, wait a minute, you have to give first and put it in the front as you get it, because if you don't do that, you're never going to really get to the point. And they believe there's these different philosophies. You'll be able to receive so much more if you commit to giving first.
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B
I think that's magical thinking.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Let me say there isn't some truth to that. They all kind of fire together, but you basically. There's an old adage in finance is pay yourself first. If you don't pay yourself first, there's never going to be anything left over for you to really build a secure financial future. So you got to have yourself. It's like, it's. It's the life raft metaphor. Like if you're, if you're drowning, you can't really help anybody else out. Or the oxygen mask principle. Right. You put your own oxygen mask on first, and then you help other people, and then you're going to be in a stronger position to help them eventually.
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A
So maybe it's a commitment. Maybe it's the commitment that you have to have from before.
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B
I agree. I mean, there's that because it's. It's the thing that pulls you through the other stages. It's like, I know that I want, like, why are you doing. Why are you building wealth? Like, what's it for? There needs to be a higher purpose that this whole project is serving to make the journey meaningful and impactful and joyful. So it isn't such a grind. But it's. That giving part is a really fun part. Essentially, to me, it's the most interesting part. But if you don't have. Part of the problem with our monastery is we went to the giving right away and we weren't doing the other pieces. We didn't have a strong foundation. And so ultimately that drove us into a real financial ruin.
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A
Right. Right. Yeah. So maybe it's the commitment that you should put first.
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B
Yeah.
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A
And part may not tack it onto the mission and the why. Because as you, as you make money and if you get financially free, so to speak, you find out that the cars and the houses and all that, it's all nice and everything, but really, at the end of the day, man, like, the novelty wears off.
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B
And I want to say it doesn't mean you wait 10 years before you give or 20 years, so you build up your wealth it's like you've, you've, you've got your, you can budget for giving from the get go, like from the start, but the other pieces need to be taken care of first. And so that you're giving from your abundance, not giving from something you don't have to give.
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A
Right, right. So how long did it take you to fix everything so that they were solvent, they were in good shape?
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B
Well, there's different levels of solvency. There's getting rid of the debt. That took about two and a half, three years. And then of course, we were at zero, which is like, that's still not really. So it took probably another five, 10 years to get us to where we were really in a, in a stronger place. But in terms of clearing up the immediate crisis, about a two and a half year process.
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A
And have you studied the Catholic Church and, and the Mormons, for example, or how L. Ron Hubbard built Scientology? Like, the way they, like, they all seem like they're very well off financially. Have you studied that?
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B
I'm not, I've not studied Scientology at all. I'm not. I mean, I know Elrond Harbor a little bit, but I'm not familiar with their models now.
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A
Or the Mormons or.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Or the Catholic Church itself. They seem like they're very, very solvent.
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B
Well, in some places, yes. In some places. Not a lot of that is just they've been around a really long time, so time value of money, you know, and also having a strong donation base.
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A
So.
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B
Yeah, if you've got a large membership where people are being generous with their contributions, it's gonna, it's gonna put you in a good, good spot.
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A
Yeah. And, you know, I think from what I studied with the Mormons, like, they, they actually have businesses and, and then obviously hard assets that start cash flowing and then, and then it starts. And then they're very good at using, you know, trusts and probably trust, I'm guessing, and also life insurance, overfunding, life insurance policies and, you know, being able to use money tax free.
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B
Yep.
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A
Those kind of tricks.
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B
Lots of tricks out there. Strategies. There's so many.
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A
Yeah, yeah. All right, so the exit of the monetary, the monastery, like, what was that like? And do they excommunicate? How's that all work?
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B
Well, you know, it's a bit like a divorce. You know, you just basically say, I want out. And then it's not easy, but it's, it's a process, you know, but it's essentially just that simple is saying, I'm done. But then, of course it was, it's a bit like leaving the Amish, I would say. Like, you don't just, you can, you can quit and you're, you're not excommunicated. It's not like anyone's going to silence you. But you, you are leaving behind your, all of your friends and your community and even your job and your whole support network, including in some sense, maybe even your pre existing faith into something maybe, hopefully better. But it was, it was, it was a complete collapse for me for a good year or so trying to rebuild everything from scratch.
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A
Do they discourage you from talking to the monks that are staying back?
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B
Oh, they still reach out, they still try. They were still open to talking, but I was not, it was more on my end than their end. I kind of had enough. You know, I was done with the games and realized that it served me well for a while, but at some point it got very dysfunctional and even emotionally and psychologically abusive and to the point where I just said, I can't, I can't live this way anymore. This is not for me.
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A
Is there, is there a process where they. I don't want to use the word brainwash, but I will brainwash get you to think differently as far as ways to keep you committed.
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B
Yes. And I don't want to put it, make it sound so like draconian or simple or obvious, but it's more like. It's not so much brainwashing, it's so much that it's just hard to leave because everything, you, your whole life is tied up in the community. And so you're leaving. It's like leaving all of your friends and all of your family and all of your career, every, all your identity has to sort of dissolve and reform. And so it's, it's that there's this huge emotional barrier. Again, I think a divorce, it's maybe more dramatic than a divorce, but that's a good, it's a good analogy to understand what, what kind of a commitment or what kind of the process might feel like from someone who maybe not have any experience with monasticism. So, yeah, it's, it's not. Are you brainwashed in a marriage? Not really, but are you sort of maybe feel like there's some ties there that you've, you've taken your vows, you've made these commitments and then to feel like, well, you know, and yet there, there is a point where you just, it's just not working anymore. And you, and it's like, am I going to spend the rest of my Life in a die. What was basically a dying community. Monasticism is just dying in the West. Monasteries are closing left and right and our community closed down about a few after I, I walked away because there was nobody new joining. And so what I realized is I was the youngest Monk by maybe 20 years and it was, it wasn't growing and there was no real interest in making changes that would bring new people into the community. And so I was looking forward into my future 20, 30 years and going, well, what's that going to look like? I'm just going to be the last one standing, turning out the lights. And at that point, you know, you can't really reinvent yourself. You know, reinventing yourself in your 40s is hard, but doing it in your 60s or 70s, really, really almost impossible. So, yeah, I saw the writing on the wall that the community wasn't viable any longer. And so at that point I had to make a very difficult personal decision that was in my best interest.
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A
And what was reintegration like? And what did you. Because you're coming out and you have nothing. I don't, I assume you don't have any assets or anything, right when you first came out.
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B
Basically living out of my car.
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A
Yeah, yeah. So take us through that part.
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B
Well, yeah, I basically packed up my things one night and, you know, I had, I had expressed my desire to leave many times and of course got a lot of pushback on that and finally just decided I had to just go. I just had to, you know, pack my car up and take off and, and just stayed at a hotel for. Had enough, enough money to get me by for a few months. And I already launched a new business at that point and had had a plan, you know, in a career lined up, but was essentially living. I didn't really even have a steady paycheck at that point. So it was some minimal savings, some little bit of money I'd squirreled away and then took the leap into a career in finance and had just trust that it was going to work out.
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A
Yeah, it reminds me of the entrepreneurial journey when you have a commitment or a vision and you don't know how it's going to happen, but you just go forward and you take the first step. Right. And you figured out. So. So the money thing was, you know, the route you took from the beginning and you started your own business or did you, you work for someone?
- [22:43]
B
Okay, well, I started my own investment firm and there's a whole story behind that. But I quickly merged that with a larger company in Santa Fe. So I became a partner there where, you know, started eventually was managing about a quarter billion in assets and then took a sabbatical. Took a leap. Left there about two years ago to write the second book, Taming youg Money Monster. And then now I'm joining it. Just join a new firm out here in North Carolina where I've relocated.
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A
Okay, got it. And so how long did it take you to feel like you were back on your feet?
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B
About a year. Yeah, I would say it took. I would say three years. Felt like really solid. You know, it's sort of gradual. The first year was rough. Second year was getting better. Third year, that was when I felt like I really hit and business was solid. I felt like my business was. Was stable, had enough income where I didn't feel like I was always scrounging all the time. And that was kind of the kind of high watermark for me is to about probably the three year mark was where, okay, where I felt like I had a real life. I really had a real life at that point.
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A
And what about relationships coming out of that? Was it difficult to communicate and.
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B
Well, yeah, so, you know, dating. And I actually had thought about one book was going to be from. My first book is From Monk to Money Manager. Right. But one of the titles I played with for about a heartbeat was called From Monk to Match. Like, how do you go from being a monk to being out there in the dating world? That was just wild. That, that was a huge. There was this huge learning curve. And it was a huge learning curve. Entrepreneurially, relationally, socially. Everything. It was just. Everything was hard. There was no, there was no part of my life that didn't need to get rebuilt from scratch. And so all of it was tricky. But the dating one was certainly where I. I had a pretty hard, high learning curve.
- [24:33]
A
Yeah, I've been married 23 years coming up this May, and I was at my event this week. We had dinner. I have a small dinner one night with three other people and one of them, my guy Ken, he was like, hey, should I swipe left or right? And I'm like, what are you talking about? And he's like, oh, well, I have this, this, this girl that wants to possibly meet up. And. And I was like, what? Oh. And he says, a dating app. And you swipe left if you don't. Or do.
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B
Or.
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A
I don't know. I don't know the difference. But I've been married so long that I didn't. They didn't have dating apps when I was dating So I had no idea what the heck was going on. So. Like that. I can imagine what it would like.
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B
You just a nightmare coming in and.
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A
How you have all this tech to connect. There's very little emotion involved at first. It's all like, superficial, I guess, and then y. Yeah. Yeah. So how did you end up navigating that? Did you end up meeting someone or how did that.
- [25:16]
B
Well, I did eventually. Well, yes. And I did get. I did. I did find somebody, maybe didn't find quite the right. I got married in 20. Was it the beginning of the pandemic? Around 20, 20. And then we divorced in 20, 23, 24.
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A
Okay.
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B
Didn't. Didn't. Obviously, I could have picked better, so. Or made. Made. Yeah. That's a long story.
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A
It wasn't the best, but that's the easiest time going through lockdown and everything with.
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B
Yeah. You know, so basically I say, I. I jokingly, some people have pandemic puppies. I had a pandemic marriage, you know, basically beginning. It was pretty much bookmarked by the beginning and the end of the pandemic.
- [25:55]
A
Yeah. Yeah.
- [25:56]
B
And. And there's plenty of blame to go around. My. My own. My own included.
- [26:00]
A
It takes two to tango. Right? Right. But, you know, the faith thing, how does that. How's that evolved since you left?
- [26:08]
B
Well, it's just gotten deeper. I mean, it's always a journey. Like, the spiritual adventure never ends. Like, it isn't like you wake up one morning and you've got it all figured out. But it's. For me, I think my faith just gets stronger every year. And certainly this past year has been a brilliant shift for me because. Because I had a lot of. Because again, like many people, there's institutional trauma from the church. So 20 years in the mosaic, I was. When I first left, I was done. Like, I want nothing to do with it or nothing to do with religion at that point. I thought it was all kind of threw it all out. Threw the baby out with the bathwater at that point. But coming. I've really come full, full circle back into my faith over the past year or so as a really grounding and anchoring, so. And set a place of stillness where I can feel centered and secure in myself and in, you know, the God of my understanding. You know, I'm not trying to. You know, I don't. But that. That. That understanding just gets deeper every year. And it. And I feel like that's been. Been this huge anchor for me, particularly lately, that I'm grateful for. On untold Levels.
- [27:22]
A
Yeah. You know, for me, it's not about the dogma. It's about relationship. And once I figured that out, everything changed. And it's been just phenomenal, you know, And I was able to surrender and release control.
- [27:36]
B
Yeah.
- [27:36]
A
Prior to that, I didn't. I just really. Just not understanding how it works, you know, so. Yeah. So. All right, so from here forward, as we wind down here, like, what's the. What's the next step for you, the vision? Where are you going next with it?
- [27:51]
B
Well, you know, I'm working on. I'm a keynote speaker, and I've got these two books. I'm doing a book tour. And then I'm also an investment advisor still. So I've got all these. And a business coach. So I got kind of a bunch of different things. I'm firing on all cylinders, and they're all going very, very well. So for me, it's just really about. I really want to be more on the national stage. And. And I've got some. I think some really. We didn't even get to my books or.
- [28:20]
A
No, we're gonna stuff in there. We'll get to that. We'll get to that.
- [28:22]
B
But.
- [28:22]
A
Hey. But yeah, matter of fact, hold on one second. I'm. Gonna. So, you know, really what the deal is now from this point forward is, you know, getting known, becoming that one in that space and getting known. And you understand that game, which is important because you could be the best in the world at what you do. And if nobody knows you, then you don't have a shot. And there's people out there that know less than you, but I get known more than you, and then they start giving out bad information, which is dangerous.
- [28:49]
B
Right.
- [28:49]
A
We see this in the money game. We see this in the health space and biohacking longevity and all that. So, yeah, so that's. That's important. So, you know, and as you know, you. You know, it's who you know that knows the game too, so that you can take advantage of those resources.
- [29:04]
B
So you're one of those great resources. Yeah.
- [29:07]
A
Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. So the books, first of all, when did the monk to money manager come out?
- [29:12]
B
That was 2019.
- [29:13]
A
Okay, so how long had you been out?
- [29:16]
B
I left the monastery in 20. End of 2016. 2017. Yeah.
- [29:20]
A
It took about three years or so to do that. And that overview of that book versus taming your money monster.
- [29:28]
B
Yeah, I'd say from Monk to money manager. The subtitle is A former monk's financial guide to becoming a little bit Wealthy and why that's okay. Like really have a, have a deep spiritual argument for why it's important that we actually build a strong financial future for ourselves and how to do it. It's really a. It's a primer on financial literacy for people who maybe don't. Who aren't financially literate, want to understand the basics of finance, of earning, saving, investing, giving, taxes, insurance, all the things that compound interest, all the things you need to know to really have a strong and robust financial life and then taming your money. Nine Paths to Money Mastery with the Enneagram. What that is, is a why do book. It's. Why do we struggle to implement the practical steps that we need to have that strong financial future? What are the psychological roadblocks that we encounter and how to overcome them? So it's really a deep spiritual and psychological dive into this thing called the Enneagram, which is a really robust and useful psychological tool that explains kind of how your ego is formed and what your ego defenses are and, and then layering on top of that attachment theory, or what I call the attachment theory of money and how we can have an unhealthy relationship to money. The different, what I call money monsters, the. The ways that our money monsters with, within our personality, within our ego structure manifest to sabotage us. In those four pillars of finance, we talked about earning, saving, investing, giving. Where do they show up? Why do they show up? What are their root causes and how do we overcome them?
- [31:01]
A
Yeah, we talk a lot about identity in our group. So we, you know, if you don't recalibrate your nervous system to the identity that you need to be to achieve the next thing or the next level, whether it's finances or your business or relationships, you'll always go back to where your, your nervous system is calibrated to. And so do you touch on identity and nervous system recalibration at all?
- [31:22]
B
I mean, yes. And I don't talk. I don't think I use that, that terminology specifically, but it's. That's definitely part of the book, to be sure. It's like, what are the grounding exercises that you need to do? What are the contemplative practices that you might put into. Put into place where you might be able to find compassion for yourself and for others and then what are the right actions you need to take to move forward?
- [31:43]
A
Yeah, because I talked to a financial. He was a CPA for billionaires, and he said, every billionaire that I work with has gone broke at least once or twice, but they always come back. They, they've always come back. And it's because they created this identity that this is what I do. Their nervous system is calibrated to that. They didn't lose the money necessarily because their nervous system wasn't calibrated. It was just maybe a wrong move, wrong partnership, whatever. But they always come back and broke people. Until they fix their identity and calibrate their nervousness to that next level, they always come back. You know, you see it with lottery winners. Right. And you see it with athletes that come into a lot of money.
- [32:20]
B
And I would say that maybe the book goes even deeper into that, really getting really specific about what that identity is. That's what I call money avoidance. So when we have an unhealthy attachment to money within the system, we either anxiously attached to it, kind of like Ebenezer Scrooge, or we can be avoidant around money. So there's these two paths we can take within our personality type. And a lot of people who are, I would call money avoidant fall into the category you're referring to. It's like they don't, they're unconsciously pushing money away. These unconscious fears or anxieties or drivers that shape their identity. But how they're relating to money in a way that is going to unconsciously keep them always broke.
- [33:02]
A
Yeah. And I talk to people all the time that are, they leave a corporate job, a W2 job, and they go out and they want to coach or consult or do a service or whatever. And a lot of times, first they won't even charge. They'll just do stuff for free and help people all the time. And then they'd start to resent it.
- [33:18]
B
Yeah.
- [33:19]
A
And, and, and then once they start to figure that part out, then they, they're able to charge. They don't charge what they're worth at first.
- [33:25]
B
Yeah.
- [33:25]
A
And then, then if they keep pushing forward and being persistent, eventually you start to, they start to raise their prices and they, they, they think to themselves, well, I can't even believe I didn't know this before. Like, I didn't understand my value and my worth.
- [33:38]
B
Yeah.
- [33:39]
A
You know, you see it all the time in entrepreneurship.
- [33:41]
B
Oh, absolutely. And it's hard because when you're getting started, because you don't, you don't think because you're maybe new to the game, you think, well, I just gotta, I'll take any, anybod. You're putting your price point too low or you're, you're just eager for those clients to take anybody who comes along. And then, yeah, it's, it's a, it's. But it's a natural progression. And, and I think all of us, many of us go through that. But yeah, it's just kind of the learning curve for entrepreneurialism, as long as they can move through it and don't get stuck in that, you know, doing it for free all the time. Yeah. Made some think of his training wheels. Get your, get a few clients under your belt and then you go, oh, okay, this is how the game works. As long as you don't stay there, it's okay. I think it's okay to be, to give, give yourself a little bit on that. But definitely need to set up, you know, the velvet rope. You need to put that up so that you're not just taking anybody and everything that comes along.
- [34:29]
A
Right. A hundred percent. You know, if you don't believe in yourself, nobody's going to believe in you. Yeah. You know, and it's huge. All right, Doug, where can people go deeper with you?
- [34:37]
B
Yeah, come you can check me out my website, douglynam.com-o u g l y n a m dot com. If you want some coaching for your money issues or you want some help getting jump starting your business, I've got some coaching packages and also do keynote events or if you want some help with your finances at any level, give me, give me a shout out.
- [34:56]
A
I know they can get the books there as well.
- [34:57]
B
Yep, books are there.
- [34:58]
A
Absolutely awesome. That's Doug Lynam, folks. Doug, thank you so much for your time today and also the vulnerability and transparency to share that story and what you were thinking as you were going through it.
- [35:07]
B
Thanks, Rock. Appreciate your time.
- [35:08]
A
All right, hang tight while I wrap this up. That's this episode of the what are you made of show, folks. Make sure you hit the subscribe or follow button to top of your favorite podcast platform and keep coming back. And until next time, be that one.