B (2:07)

Yeah.

A (2:08)

When I went to college, man, and they had the ice baths and they had the massage tables and somebody was right there for you for your position group, and I was just like, this is awesome, man. You know, it was, it was amazing. I thought, I thought it felt like a professional athlete, you know, and if you needed a massage or if you needed whatever. But yes, they were there early because we'd have, you know, if you, if you had some kind of injury or something, you had to be there 5.

B (2:32)

30 in the morning. Yep.

A (2:33)

You know, and that's the mantra.

B (2:35)

First to arrive, last to leave.

A (2:36)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's awesome. And so. Well, let me, let me talk about this topic for a second here because you said something about work and hard work and work for it. Isn't there also a balance to that where there's a side of it where sometimes it is a diminishing return for work when sometimes you have to just let things flow and, and, and kind of let the control go and surrender? You work with that topic as well?

B (3:08)

I do, and it's, it sucks, I can tell you that, as someone that's wired to work my way out of problems. Yeah, it is something I hate. I shared this story in a presentation I gave last week. My first job, my grandpa was a painter and 11 years old. And he said, hey, I'm painting a house. I'm gonna hire you to help me cut in, do some of the trim work. And I've been a perfectionist as long as I can remember. So I'm 11 years old and I'm trying to cut in around these windows. It's, he's got, you know, these old single pane basement windows. And, and I'm doing my best, but I'm 11, unshaked, you know, unsteady, shaky hand, and I'm getting paint all over these windows. And so being the perfectionist that I am, I'm trying to clean the paint off as I go. And my grandpa sees me, he's like, wait, wait.

A (3:56)

What?

B (3:56)

He says, just let it dry and we'll come back tomorrow, we'll fix it. And that, that didn't compute with me. I'm like, what do you mean let it dry? Like, this needs to be perfect now. He's like, no, just trust me, just slop it on there, do whatever you want. And sure enough, next day we show up to finish the job and he hands me a razor scraper and he's like, now scrape it. And it just comes right off. And I remember in that moment having this kind of epiphany as an 11 year old that, you know, sometimes you just have to let the paint dry. Sometimes you gotta let things settle. And the more you screw with it, the more you Screw it up. Yeah. And that's a tough lesson to learn and it's one that I have to relearn regularly, but it's one that served me well.

A (4:39)

Yeah. Actually I have a book here, Price Pritchett, wrote U Squared. Have you ever heard of it? Yeah. And in there it talks about the fly and it's trying to get out the window and it keeps banging in the window and it works harder and harder and harder when it could just stop for a second, gather itself and just fly out the door, the open door that's over to the right, you know, and that's a good analogy for life sometimes, you know, for sure. And. And as much as I know about this and much work that I put in, I still go through it. I just think I can get out of it faster. I'm more aware, you know, But I still stop.

B (5:10)

It's still.

A (5:10)

Sometimes I like, you know, if it's a slow week or something, a slow month, I'm like, no, we gotta, gotta do more calls, we gotta do reach more, reach outs more, you know, this and that. And what I found is sometimes when things are slow, it's for a reason because it gives you an opportunity to optimize some things. And yeah, you know, so.

B (5:27)

But it can be a lonely place. My wife, she's a children's minister previous to now. She's a counselor now, but it was an enrollment based thing and I remember she would be stressed out if their enrollment was low. So push and push and push and to try to get their enrollments up. And then when it's full, she's stressed out because what am I going to do with all these kids? And I'm like, is there ever a point in between being stressed because there isn't enough and stressed because there's too much that you're happy for a moment. And she kind of laughed at me and she's like, you know, you're right. Like, and that's the life of an entrepreneur oftentimes is you're either stressed because you're overwhelmed with work or you're stressed because there's a lack, but there's very little complacency or, or just contentment, rather that I'm doing the work I need to do. And sometimes it's heavy and sometimes it's light.

A (6:17)

Yeah, yeah. I mean, well, I'd rather have the one where there's too many versus right off.

B (6:22)

I mean, 100, 100.

A (6:24)

Yeah. There's another thing too, where people, when they think about the results not being where they expect it to be people if, especially if it's like an event or something like that. She's putting on where you're concerned with the people that come and they're like, oh, I thought it was going to be bigger than this and it's this. And worried about what people think. Yeah, you know, you run into that too. So, yeah, the.

B (6:46)

The data side of me is. Is really kind of discovered some things about myself. I got one of those data heavy scales, I guess last Christmas. Hume. It gives you body composition measures and stuff like that. And so we were in the midst of move. My workouts were sucking my. I wasn't eating right. Like, I was. I was getting heavy and. And so I got this to track my progress. And I was. I was locked in. I was training once, at least maybe twice a day and, you know, monitor my macros, all those things. And if I would have just looked at the number on the scale, I was actually gaining a little weight, which I was. I was trying to lean up and you know that five, ten years ago I would have looked at that and been discouraged. I think how many people have done the same and they give up because they're like, I'm going in the wrong direction. But when you dig into the data, you realize like, hey, my lean mass is up. My fat mass is that like that number is not reflective of the change that's really going on. I think so many things in our lives are like that. We just look at the dollar amount at the end of the month or we look at other metrics that maybe don't tell the whole story. And it's easy to just check out and think all this work for nothing when in fact there's progress being made. We just don't have the fidelity in our measurements to know it.

A (8:06)

Yeah, you got to have the whole picture right. I just did the thing yesterday with the thing where you hold your hands on the thing and it measures your body fat and all this. And over the last year was a year, the year since I started really focusing on optimizing health and peptides and different things. I actually, I lost in a year £14. But I was like, man, only £14. But yet when you're looking at the other numbers, I gained 2 pounds of muscle though.

B (8:33)

Yeah.

A (8:34)

And body fat went down 5% and some other things were better and this and that. So, yeah, you got to look at the whole picture. And I'm actually tickled to death when I saw the other things versus just the. The £14, you know, right.

B (8:45)

Right.

A (8:46)

Do you, do you get into optimizing your health with peptides or anything?

B (8:50)

I have some, I've kind of experimented a little bit with some Orland, some BPP, BPC157. I was struggling with a, a sore knee that wouldn't get better. So I've dabbled. I'm taking, actually taking a nutrition course right now, so looking to kind of dig into that. It's, it's, it's the Wild West. It's completely unregulated and so it really just, you know, you don't know from bottle to bottle or manufacturer, manufacture what you're getting. But for, you know, if you get the authentic thing, I think the data is pretty compelling.

A (9:23)

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I've seen huge results and I'm not going to go to a research pharmacy. We, you know, make sure it's a compound pharmacy and. But yeah, we've seen some amazing results with it, man. And it just helps like I was doing things that I thought I should be doing, but as you get older, everything's a little tougher. Right. Things move slower and it just helps speed up the process and you know, 48. I don't know how old you are. I'm 48 now, man. It's just like I feel like I'm in some of the best shape of my life, you know. Did it, did a hard workout today and I was pretty impressed with everything. I was like, damn, man, this is good.

B (9:58)

Yeah, right?

A (9:59)

Yeah. They say if, they say if you live another 10 years that there's a chance you could live 50 years longer than what people are averaging now because of what's going to be coming out with AI. It's just amazing what it's, you know, creating opportunity. Have you seen that before where they.

B (10:13)

Said that I'm not. No, that, that's news to me. But I wouldn't doubt it. I mean, the, the pace of advance is ever fat, it's ever quickening. I mean, there, there's, there was kind of an improvement and then we're kind of in the hockey stick side of, of those gains. It's crazy to me to think chat GPT is like 3 years old and it's like central to what, what I do day in and day out a lot of times. But three years ago I didn't even know what it was and I had a student kind of, hey, have you heard about this AI thing? Crazy how quickly that, that has really kind of taken root as part and parcel of the higher, higher ed enterprise.

A (10:50)

Yeah, for sure. Man, for sure. All right, so you're a professor. What do you teach at Baylor?

B (10:55)

So my primary appointment is as an administrator. I'm the director of the Academy for Teaching and Learning. But my academic home is in health and human performance. I teach in our Masters of athletic training program. We've got a lot of pre. So I, I taught an undergrad anatomical. Basically a musculoskeletal anatomy class. Okay. But I'm also currently enrolled in a master's program. Just for fun. I got my doctorate years ago. But once you're here a year, you can enroll in classes for free. So I'm taking a nutrition course and a cardiovascular exercise fizz course right now.

A (11:30)

Gotcha. Now when you're taking a nutrition course, there's different schools of thought with this. Right. So how do you know you're getting the one that's most up to date, so to speak, or not? Based on just what big farmer wants you to. You know, they just actually inverted the pyramid.

B (11:45)

The food pyramid.

A (11:46)

Right, right.

B (11:47)

Yeah. Hard for me to say. Today was actually the first day of class, so I just got my syllabus and I've got homework to do after this. I think this one's a little bit more traditional. The professor school. It's a seminar style and we're expected to source current stuff. Our first assignment is a quackery article. We're supposed to find like the most off the wall bodybuilding supplement claim we can find and then poke the holes in it. So we don't have a textbook per se, which is good because that means you can be kind of on the bleeding edge of. Of where the science is.

A (12:20)

Yeah. And you know, in my journey with this and being around, I'm really deep in the biohacking longevity space because a lot of those people are our clients, the experts and doctors. And what I started to realize is there's protocols for each individual person. Like, you know, you have this thing where you're watching social media and it says, do this, do that, stay away from this, stay away from that. But everybody's different, you know, and it's everybody's. I mean, there's some things that are similar at the end of the day, but everybody is different where they are right now, whether they're their hormone levels, their, their blood panels, whatever. And so the protocol idea, to me, it makes a lot of sense now. Like, where are you? People come to me and say, man, you're looking great. What are you, what are you taking? And I don't want to tell them, you know, Because I don't want them to just go out and get what I did because it might not work for them right now. Yeah, you know, so.

B (13:04)

And I've said that for, for decades and it's tough. I mean, as an athletic trainer, a patient, an athlete's health is first and foremost. And I've never advocated for an athlete to take a substance that's against the rules or against the law. But I think a lot of times people who have used substances, whether anabolic steroids or peptides or, or other precursors, things like that, they, they get castigated by society as being like, they're shortcutting, they're taking the easy way. And the folks I know that have done it quite the opposite. Like they're doing that so that they can work out harder and longer and more often so that their recovery is actually improved. Not so they can sit on the couch, stick a needle in their, their arm and magically get muscles. That. That is not it. That, that's kind of the way a lazy person would conceptualize it. But that has not been my experience scene.

A (14:00)

Yeah, you know, it's a shame. It is because it's about recovery, you know, and, and they should want, the governed body should want them to recover better. Especially football players when you think about it. You know what I mean? It's like, yeah, but they're not allowed to take peptides, are they?

B (14:16)

It's hard to, to monitor and track, but yeah, generally speaking, they are, they're banned. They're prohibited. World Anti Doping Agency tests for things like BP BPC 157. I'm not so sure. I mean, I think some Orland is probably banned. I mean there's. Arms are. Yes, arms absolutely are. But if you really look at what those are, they're intended to provide the anabolic benefit that a steroid would without the androgenic side effects. You know, the, the gynecomastia and the, the acne and all the negative things. They're engineered to selectively activate those receptor module or receptors, so that, so that you get the benefit without the drawback.

A (15:02)

Yeah. And, and anti inflammatory, you know, which is huge. Maybe they'll come around at some point. Yeah, because I, I don't. You know, it does give you a competitive edge for sure. But if everybody has access to it, then you can decide whether you want to do it or not. Right, right. Some of my favorite baseball players were, were guys like that, like, you know, Jose Canseco, Lenny dykstra.

B (15:23)

Right.

A (15:23)

Bonds, McGuire. Like that made baseball Fun. Even the fan experience is better, I think.

B (15:29)

But yeah, you know, yeah, and, and I think people are quick to criticize that steroid era of baseball, but again, these are oftentimes, these are athletes who had never tested positive and then they get injured and then, you know, the, the, the compounds they were being given by providers they trusted, personal trainers, or in some cases physicians were intended to speed their recovery. Like, you had a surgery that's going to require nine, ten months of rehab. If you're doing hgh, that might shave a month off. Well, for a professional athlete, you think about what percentage of their competitive career a month represents. For you and me, that'd be like, hey, do you want to add three or four more years to your working life? You know, that's a big deal. And so I, I've. Clearly there's an ethical dilemma with using prohibited substances, but I also recognize that there's a powerful motivation, you know, people wanting to, to keep pace with their competitors. They want to lose their spot on the roster. There, there, there are a lot of reasons. And they're not all just nefarious. People want to cheat.

A (16:39)

Right. Well, and the other thing is that they know and hear about other people that are doing it, then they're like, well, you know, I gotta, I gotta compete. Yeah, you know, and then they take that chance, you know, but yeah, it's always an interesting topic. All right, so besides being a professor and going back to school yourself too, which is a lot on your plate there, you also work with individuals.

B (17:01)

I do some those, those days have, have kind of tailed off a little bit over the years. I was really active clinically for probably the first 15 years of my career. Worked in college football as a head football athletic trainer, worked some as a strength conditioning specialist. Much of what I do now, one to one, is more kind of personal coaching and, and helping people perform better, kind of on the, on the professional side, on the, the productivity and kind of reverse engineering success.

A (17:32)

Yeah, I gotcha. So who's, who's the ideal client for that? Like, what do they look like?

B (17:37)

That's a great question. My heart goes out to athletic trainers. There are a lot of former students that I deal with who are just languishing. They're working 60 hours a week, they're making next to nothing. They're talented, they're, they're, they're knowledgeable, but the profession has really kind of failed them. And so that's not a lucrative subset of the market to, to tap into because these are folks that are looking to Kind of upskill and move into other things. But that doesn't mean that I, I don't still love and respect them really. Anyone who's, who's kind of tired of maybe not getting the most out of life, who are looking for ways to be strategic in their purpose. And then my role is to come alongside and help you engineer that and then hopefully inspire and encourage you so that your pursuit is relentless, so that you get where you're trying to go and beyond.

A (18:31)

Yeah, well, you know, the, the physical trainers, a lot of times it makes better sense for them not to work for somebody else and create their own differentiation, their own brand and then get tied up with someone that they're working with. Like focus on people that have money, that want something beyond what the organization they're with provides. Right, right. And so, man, I'd be like talking to them about that. Like, hey, you really, you know, you want to work this many hours, you might as well build yourself your own thing, charge what you want to charge and work with the people that have the money that will pay that.

B (19:02)

Yeah.

A (19:03)

Do you get in that conversation at.

B (19:04)

All with them or. Yeah, so I, I've got a episode coming out tomorrow where I talk about kind of the ransom on your life and how having a day job and a recurring income stream can make us dependent on that. And as we get older, yeah, we get pay raises, but our expenses go up. That ransom amount just kind of keeps creeping up. And if that's what's keeping you from going all in on chasing what you're really here for, then it gets really, really hard. If you know, I've got one kid in college now, another that just graduated mortgage payment. Those kinds of things can really make it difficult to leave a steady paying job and go into kind of like what we were talking about in that entrepreneurial space where you don't know from month to month what it's going to look like.

A (19:52)

Yeah. I mean, I think there's a window where you have to sacrifice time and social life and all these different things because do work the day job and then you got to have the side thing that you're building.

B (20:01)

Yeah.

A (20:02)

So it's big enough to, to leave.

B (20:04)

Yeah. You know, that's a classic Gary Vee. Right. He's like, you're not gonna, you're not gonna fall into the job that you're dreaming of. You gotta nights and weekends and, and give up a social life and grind away for years sometimes. And just like we said on the scale, maybe the metrics don't tell me that I'm making it. But the reality is we really don't ever have the benefit of knowing when that one next connection that I make makes all the difference. And I get a book deal or I get a speaking gig out of.

A (20:35)

It, or it's just, yeah, one professional athlete that needs extra besides what the organization's providing them. And then they tell you all their friends about you.

B (20:43)

Yeah.

A (20:44)

You just don't know. And then you become that guy, you know?

B (20:46)

100. I had a guest on my show who he sells cars in Lubbock, Texas. He's a young guy, bright, and he reached out to a student athlete right at the beginning of NIL and helped him get a car. And that one, one client has made it. And I don't know if you follow college football still, but Texas Tech is flush with cash and 50 to 100. I mean, there's all kinds of student athletes that have money that wouldn't have a decade ago. And he's the guy and he is killing. He's selling 50 or 60 cars a month. And a lot of them are just well compensated Texas Tech athletes that want expensive, flashy cars.

A (21:26)

Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, speaking of that, the Duke quarterback that was very good this year left on the last day of the transfer portal, was open after signing a 4 billion dollar contract to stay with Duke.

B (21:41)

I saw that today. Yeah.

A (21:42)

You know what I mean? And now they're suing him. So I don't know how that's going to turn out because what are they going to do? What are they going to get out of the suit? Like, are they going to make him come back and play and he's going to be disgruntled? Like, I don't understand. I got to set a precedent. They can't have people leaving contracts. Yeah. You know, and it's all kinds of interesting things with this. That came from this. Where does Texas Tech get all their money? Is it the oil? Like, what's around there?

B (22:04)

Yeah. So I was there for 15 years. Just came to Baylor a year and a half ago. So they were. They've struggled, we'll say, for much of my tenure there. But with the NIL thing, one booster in particular is a, A billionaire from the oil industry. But there are others, a guy by the name of Cody Campbell has kind of bankrolled a lot of their operations and really led them to some, definitely some success on the recruiting trail. And now you're starting to see it on the field.

A (22:34)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've seen it. I, I'M deep into it. I love, I love college football. Yeah. And then, and then the, the, the next step for you, you're getting your masters, right. And when you get your master's, like, what's on the horizon for you? Like, what are you focused on and where are you going right now? Yeah.

B (22:50)

So this is actually my, this will be my sixth degree. I've got two other masters already. This will be my third. I'll probably go ahead and do a fourth. There's another one in sports and theology that I'll, I'm already interested in. The, the degrees just kind of happen along the way. I'm old enough and experienced enough now that for what I want to do, I don't really need them so much as I just, I relish the chance to be on the receiving end. I, I teach teachers a lot of times and so it helps cultivate some empathy within me. I, I can pretty easily say what it's like to be a student in a grad school classroom because I'm doing it so that, that will always continue as long as, as long as I'm breathing. I'm looking for ways to level up and get better, but really what I'm trying to lean into for 26 is to help others. Recently kind of rebranded. The podcast studio is part of that, but a new website and speaking opportunities. I got a new book that will hopefully come out this year that I've been working on since COVID lockdown. So it's really kind of a coming together of a lot of things that have been simmering for several years. But these are things that I've done for graduate students for two decades now. And I hope to be able to translate that over into helping people from all different areas and walks of life.

A (24:13)

Gotcha. And so if you were gonna go on stage and speak, what is it that you touch on?

B (24:18)

So the name of the show is becoming undone. The real focus is how oftentimes setbacks and adversity that suck in the moment are actually the fuel that lights the fire that leads us to new success. So, you know the common story like an athlete tears their ACL and they come out of that learning how to work and they're a better athlete because of the adversity for an entrepreneur whose business fails and they learn skills along the way that they don't repeat the next time. I've interviewed over a hundred different high performers from NFL athletes to Navy Seals to entrepreneurs to Grammy award winning artists. And as different as they are, the stories are remarkably similar about there's really no such thing as an overnight success. People that find success have had to overcome sometimes incredible adversity on their way as things that no one would ever choose, but they're stronger in the process. So I really focus in on, you know, in this job market, people are losing their jobs, people are having trouble making ends meet. The economy is. Is. Is rough. And I know for myself what I make today doesn't go as far as what I made last year at this time. So being willing to upskill and, and get better and grow is necessary in this day and age. So. So we can't just be. Be complacent and rest on what got us here and expect that that's going to continue to lead us to new success. You got to till new ground and plant new seeds if you expect to be able to harvest new things.

A (25:53)

Yeah. Yeah. Great message. I love this. I talk about this a lot. And you know, speaking of adversity, you had Bo Nix break his ankle on a kneel down play at the end of a game where they're going to continue in the playoffs and they may even win it or they look like they were really good enough to win it. And what's going through his head and what can. How can this be good? You know?

B (26:12)

Right. Yeah.

A (26:13)

I mean, especially on that play. It wasn't even a non contact injury. Yeah. You just feel for him. But you. You got to know, like, because we know what we know, dude, if you just understand and turn this in, like, I always talk about storing it in your tank instead of your trunk. Right. And convert it into rocket love. That.

B (26:31)

That's great.

A (26:33)

And, and so if he. He's the type that'll do that, I'm sure. But like, you still feel for him, but. But yeah, it's just like, oh, man, what if we could have won a Super bowl this year, you know?

B (26:43)

Yeah.

A (26:43)

That's the highest level, right?

B (26:45)

Yeah. That's the whole idea behind the show is sometimes we feel like our life's unraveled. It's. It's come undone and, you know, we're sitting in the wreckage of what we thought was our dream job or the marriage that was going to last forever or whatever that success we envision, that's now shattered and we go from being undone to realizing that I've got a purpose left unfulfilled and I'm not yet done. I'm undone because I'm unfinished and I've got an assignment that only I can carry out.

A (27:14)

Yeah. And. And the other thing is Some. There's a journey, like, I'm putting this group together, right? It's a group of high achievers, and immediately we had success right away. And then you, as you're building it, you realize some of these people don't belong because, you know, you give them enough time, they start to show who they truly are. And then, you know, oh, man, this is. This has been so easy. And then all of a sudden down to here, and then you're like, okay, well, just because that happened, are you quitting or did. Did you plan on things happening and you're committed to the, to the outcome, the vision that you had? Because if you are, how you get there doesn't really matter. It's just that you got to get there, you know? And so I go through, like, as much work as I do. I go through the same stuff all the time. And then I'm like, hey, this is what I preach. I got to practice it now. Can't, you know, be a living demonstration?

B (28:02)

Yeah, absolutely.

A (28:04)

So where can people go deeper with you, Toby, that. That, you know, are interested in what you're doing?

B (28:09)

Yeah, I appreciate that. Toby Brooks PhD.com is kind of command central. Link tree, linktr. EE, backslash. Toby Brooks, Ph.D. and then the show is undonepodcast.com. you can find it anywhere. You get podcasts, Apple, Spotify. Today we just hit number six in self improvement around the globe. So pretty stoked about that. It's been a man. Same thing like two years ago. It felt like nobody's listening. Why am I even recording these things? And then something just snaps and it changes trajectory and it's been a heck of a ride. But I learned more from the failure than I probably would have learned from. From early success.

A (28:53)

Yeah, for sure. And I got to tell you this, and I got to tell other people that are listening this podcasting for me, all the 2000 plus episodes I've been on, both sides of the mic, the audience and who's listening didn't matter as much as the network that I created from the host or the guests.

B (29:09)

It creates a context for me to have conversations with people just like you that I wouldn't have had otherwise. And it opens, not only opens doors, but opens my mind to different things. And I don't think I'd have the job I have today if it weren't for the podcast. I know it has opened opportunities and, and will lead to greater things. So perfectly said. Even if nobody else is listening. I am. And I'm better for it.

A (29:36)

Yeah, for sure. You know, I got a friend that read a book a week. He read a book a week for 20 years straight.

B (29:41)

Wow.

A (29:42)

And I'm always impressed by that. Like, damn, I don't read books that fast. I usually, you know, I'll take three or four books, and I'm reading, like a couple pages of each book, book every morning. I don't know, I might be up there. I don't know how many books I read. But nonetheless, he's like, dude, what you do is just as powerful or even more powerful because the amount of episodes you do, it's like reading a book every episode. And I said, yeah, you know what? Because I have to actively listen. When we're doing our hosting, we have to actively listen to be able to have the conversation that we have. Right. And so, yeah, I'm a different person from the last five to six years, for sure. You know, and I try to tell my kids and my wife that, like, guys, I know a lot, they're like, I don't want to hear it.

B (30:21)

You don't know. But that's the trick to great parenting. I was taught a long time ago, they won't listen to you. So you've got to put people in their path.

A (30:31)

Yes.

B (30:31)

That will tell them the message you want them to hear and let them hear it from somebody else. And that. That 100 has worked for me.

A (30:39)

Yeah. Yeah. Well, listen, man, it's been a pleasure, Toby, I appreciate you coming on today.

B (30:43)

Yeah, thanks for having me. I really do appreciate it.

A (30:45)

My pleasure. Hang tight while I wrap this up, folks. That's this episode of the what do you made up show with your boy, C. Rock. My guy, Toby Brooks, sharing what he's made of. Keep coming back. Make sure you hit the follow, subscribe or whatever buttons at the top of your favorite podcast platform. Until next time, be that one.