The 10 Ninety of Grief: Mason Sawyer on Loss, Healing, and Resilience

Summary

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Podcast Summary

Episode Overview

In this deeply emotional episode of "What Are You Made Of?" host Mike "C-Roc" Ciorrocco sits down with Mason Sawyer. The conversation explores the aftermath of unimaginable loss, Mason's ongoing journey through grief, and the founding of his "1090" podcast and organization. Together, they discuss loss, healing, masculinity, resilience, and the search for meaning both during and after traumatic events. The episode is a profound reflection on how humans struggle, adapt, and seek connection when faced with the worst.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What Are You Made Of? (00:12–02:08)

• Mason’s Self-Reflection: Mason admits he's still finding the answer: "Sometimes I feel very brave and courageous... and then other times I feel awful. And I hate myself and I want to die" (00:46, Mason). He emphasizes the complexity of his emotions and his effort to accept all parts of himself.

• Honesty as Strength: C-Roc commends Mason for his honest and rare answer: “That’s a good one, man. That's where I wanted to come from. I just wanted to flow...” (01:29, C Rock).

2. The 1090 Concept: Grief and Response (02:08–04:17)

• Origin of 1090: Mason shares the tragedy that changed his life in 2021: “I lost my wife Courtney, my son Riggins, my daughter Frankie, my brother Race and my nephew Ryder in a car crash... My son Blue, our middle child, survived” (02:14, Mason).

• Meaning Behind “1090”: He explains the name derives from a quote: “Life’s 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond to it” (03:41, Mason). He launched the podcast for connection and to process trauma—with gratitude to his father for inspiring the title.

3. The Brutality and Scale of Grief (04:17–07:57)

• Different Levels, Different Pains: Both men reflect on the different levels of trauma and pain. "There's levels to this stuff... you talk to somebody that's lost their family in an accident and you're like, dude... when you're going through something, it could always be worse" (05:17, C Rock).

• Mason’s Perspective: Mason notes his story isn’t unique, despite the scale: “There is horrible things happening to people like me all the time” (06:53, Mason).

• Grief Comparison: “Comparison is the thief of grief. Like it doesn’t do us any good to compare it… Grief is just different, man. It’s just not better or worse. It’s just different.” (07:36, Mason)

4. Talking to Children about Loss (08:03–09:20)

• Directness with His Son: Mason decided on blunt honesty: “They’re dead. They’re not coming back. I wasn’t using confusing language...” (08:37, Mason).

• Role Modeling Grief: He lets his son see him cry and involve him in speaking events: “He needs to see you cry” (09:04, Mason).

5. Suppressing Grief, Masculinity, and Numbing (09:33–12:24)

• Numbing Techniques: Mason discusses the many ways men numb or avoid emotional pain—work, video games, over/undereating, etc.: “We numb and run in all sorts of ways... There's just so many ways that we choose not to think about it, not to feel it...” (11:25, Mason).

• Why Suppression Fails: "Trying to run from it, it’s just gonna creep into your life in other ways" (11:34, Mason).

6. The Shame of Living After Loss (12:24–13:45)

• The “Balancing Act” of Moving Forward: Mason opens up about the struggle to enjoy life without feeling immense guilt: “How can you be happy? Like, your family died? How dare you laugh at a joke? How dare you go to a movie?” (13:25, Mason).

7. Time, Progress, and Public Grief (15:25–17:53)

• Does It Get Easier? “Year one was probably the easiest because you're just in so much shock… reality setting in, like, this is actually the rest of my life and they're gone” (15:46, Mason).

• Role of Talking: Sharing repeatedly has helped Mason build strength: “It’s easier to carry the weight... sometimes instead of just crying all the time” (16:54, Mason).

• Public Perception vs. Internal Reality: Mason notes the irony that his outward role as podcast host can fool people into thinking he’s healed: “I think being a podcast host and having followers has tricked people into thinking I'm doing good... I'm looking for answers here” (17:13, Mason).

8. Relationships—Distance and Frustration (17:53–20:48)

• Isolation Choices: Mason self-isolates, rarely socializing outside podcasts: “90% of my conversations are in a podcast setting... I do so much self-isolation... hard to put too much blame on anyone else” (18:16–18:44, Mason).

• Cultural and Religious Tensions: Family differences (especially religious) sometimes exacerbate pain: “We don't believe in death. Like, they believe a guy came and conquered death... So I'm crying about my dead family, and the culture is like, they're not dead. They're just in a different room” (20:00, Mason).

9. Is There Hope? Faith, Nihilism, and Purpose (21:44–25:05)

• What Keeps Mason Going: His son Blue is his primary motivation: "Number one answer, what keeps me going is Blue for sure. Showing up for him" (21:44, Mason).

• Questions Without Answers: Mason shares daily existential struggles: “Is living worth the cost?... I have faith and hope that I’ll see them again and this will all make sense. I think everyone has that feeling. But when they died... it felt and it feels just really awful” (21:44–22:26, Mason).

• On Faith and Nihilism: “I think I'm more of a nihilistic. So, yeah, I don't think anything means anything... And that's actually what makes being good good, is for no reward... That’s integrity.” (23:43–24:18, Mason).

• Openness to Change: The journey continues: “You interview me 10 years from now, I might be the Southern Baptist or something. The grief journey is a crazy ride” (25:40–25:45, Mason).

10. Lessons from Podcasting and Helping Others (26:19–29:55)

• The Power of Listening: “As a podcast host, especially with grief... it's about listening... When people are heard, man, beautiful things happen. There's connection... It gives them so much energy and strength to carry the weight. It changes everything” (26:49–28:14, Mason).

• Consistency and Endurance: Mason recommends showing up each week, regardless of feedback, and outsourcing technical details to avoid self-consciousness.

• Milestone: "We're at 170 episodes... most people don't get past 10." (29:40–29:54)

11. Reflection and Impact (30:06–32:07)

• C-Roc’s Realization: The conversation pushes C-Roc to reflect on gratitude and meaning, contrasting business worries with deeper life challenges.

• Mason’s Mission: Mason expresses hope that by sharing and being vulnerable he can help other men open up and face their own grief.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On his own grief:
  “Sometimes I feel very brave and courageous and feel like I’m making a difference. And then other times I feel awful. And I hate myself and I want to die.” — Mason Sawyer (00:46)

• After the crash:
  “He [Blue] was the lone survivor of that car crash. It was caused by a sandstorm… Eight people died. So it was a terrible day for a lot of people.” — Mason Sawyer (02:40)

• On comparison:
  “Comparison is the thief of grief. Like it doesn’t do us any good to compare it… Grief is just different, man.” — Mason Sawyer (07:36)

• Being honest with his son:
  “They’re dead. They’re not coming back. I wasn’t using confusing language...” — Mason Sawyer (08:37)

• On moving forward:
  “How can you be happy? Like, your family died? How dare you laugh at a joke?” — Mason Sawyer (13:25)

• Why listening matters:
  “When people are heard, man, beautiful things happen. There’s connection... It gives them so much energy and strength to carry the weight...” — Mason Sawyer (28:10–28:14)

• On goodness and meaning:
  “Being good doesn’t matter. You don’t get any blessings... Will you still choose to do good? And that’s integrity.” — Mason Sawyer (23:55–24:18)

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Important Timestamps

• 00:12: Mason reflects on “what are you made of?”
• 02:08: Mason recounts the loss that led to the 1090 podcast.
• 03:41: “Life’s 10% what happens, 90% how you respond” — The 1090 concept.
• 05:54: Discussion of “levels to grief.”
• 07:36: “Comparison is the thief of grief” — Dangers of comparing pain.
• 08:37: How Mason communicated death to his young son.
• 09:53: Suppression, numbing, and the male experience of grief.
• 13:25: The guilt of feeling happy after loss.
• 15:46: “Year one was probably the easiest… then reality setting in.”
• 16:54: Talking and sharing helps carry the weight.
• 17:13: Outward appearances vs. internal struggle.
• 21:44: What keeps Mason going—love for his son Blue.
• 23:43: Mason’s honesty about faith and nihilism.
• 26:49: Lessons learned from podcasting: listen, don’t try to fix.
• 29:40: Milestone—reaching 170 episodes.
• 31:46: Mason’s hope that sharing will help others.

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Conclusion

This episode is a raw, vulnerable journey through the realities of profound grief and the struggle to find purpose amidst pain. Mason Sawyer’s honesty about loss, resilience, and the quest for meaning offers deep lessons for anyone confronting trauma or supporting someone in grief. His story reminds listeners of the power of listening, the complexity of healing, and the importance of connection, especially among men.

Listen for:

• Real-life strategies for honest grief communication (08:37)
• Reflections on comparison and suppression of grief (07:36, 09:53)
• Insights on meaning, faith, nihilism, and coping (23:43)

Find Mason Sawyer’s 1090 podcast on all major platforms and connect via social media.

Transcript

[C Rock]

Welcome back to that one studio on the what are you made of show. It's your boy C Rock here. I'm with Mason Sawyer, about to share what he's made of. What's up, Mason? Thanks for coming on, man.

[Mason Sawyer]

Yeah, thanks for having me, man.

[C Rock]

My pleasure. My pleasure, man. We talked a while back, and I was, you know, swept up in your story, brother. And then how everything happens after that, and it's very interesting to see how other people go, you know, through life after that and. And after. After they go through something traumatic, you know, and. And a big loss and. So if you don't mind, I want to start the show off this question, and I'm curious, what are you made of?

[Mason Sawyer]

Oh, I think that's a question that I'm continuing to try to figure out and answer.

I think it's many different things. I think sometimes I feel very brave and courageous and feel like I'm making a difference. And then other times I feel awful.

And I hate myself and I want to die.

So the spectrum goes up and down, left and right, round and round for me. I think one thing that I'm trying to get better at is just listening, like, be a good listener.

But I think there's many parts that make up Mason Sawyer, and I'm trying to let them all feel heard and Phil accepted and understood, so. Sorry, that might be a weird answer, but that's kind of. That's kind of what came out for me.

[C Rock]

That's a good one, man. That's where I wanted to come from. I just wanted to flow and. Yeah, no, it's a good one, man. I. I don't think I've ever. I've done a thousand plus episodes. I don't think anybody's ever said. I'm still trying to figure that out maybe a couple times, but I don't remember. I don't remember that.

[Mason Sawyer]

So.

[C Rock]

I agree with you. I agree. That's a good answer.

[Mason Sawyer]

There's parts of me I don't like at all. So that I'm trying to work on.

And then there's parts of me I. I do like.

So, yeah, man, it's just. That's a tough one to answer for me.

[C Rock]

Yeah. Yeah. So you have a thing, an organization called 1090, and if you don't mind, like, what. Can you share what that is and. And where that came from?

[Mason Sawyer]

Yeah. So 2021, I lost my wife Courtney.

My son Riggins, my daughter Frankie, my brother Race and my nephew Ryder in a car crash. They were traveling back from a family vacation That I had to work, so I couldn't go. And so my brother took his youngest son with my family because they were going to the same family reunion.

My son Blue, our middle child, survived.

He was the lone survivor of that car crash.

It was caused by a sandstorm, was.

Like a 22 car pile up. Eight people died. So it was a terrible day for a lot of people.

And from that moment, I just was very broken and scared and alone and just many things. And so I decided to start a podcast to talk about trauma and to talk about grief and to talk about shame. And I found people that can relate to it and people that I've been able to help and relate to.

So I don't feel so alone.

And I remember I wanted to start this podcast.

And I don't know about you, C Rock, but it's hard to come up with a podcast name.

I don't know what the hell to call it. Like, what do you call this thing? So I was trying to come up with a name, and my dad sent me this quote in an email that day that said, life's 10% what happens.

To you and 90% how you respond to it.

And he said in the email, he's like, mason, if there's anything we could.

Do to change it, we would, but we can't. All we have left now is to decide what we're gonna do with this pain. And I just really love that message and that quote. And so I decided to name my podcast the the 1090 podcast.

And I have people come on, I interview them, we talk about their 10%.

And then we talk about their 90% and a lot of brutal stories out there.

[C Rock]

Yeah. You know, I love the concept. I love the concept. And it's always, always tough to hear when you're going through something or you just went through something to hear somebody say that, like, everything's got a reason. There's a purpose behind everything. It's not how. It's not what happens to you, it's how you respond. And. And it's not easy to hear when you're in it. Matter of fact, I preach. I preach and preach and preach about different things I've learned in my life. And I'm. I'm a performance expert. I know how to help people go further, faster in life and really live fulfilled. And it's so funny when I go through those things and I'm talking to people and this and that, and they hear it and they vibe with it and all that, but then something happens to me. I hit Adversity. Something happens unexpectedly and I'm just like, oh, now I gotta practice what I preach, you know, so it's, it is, it's one of them things. And, and you know, and, and when something happens to someone, you got to kind of tiptoe into it to make sure that you're not coming off insensitive or non empathetic. And there's also, Mason, there's levels to this stuff, right, that, that happened. Like, I, I, I've dealt with some suicides in my life that people like, you know, lost like that and, but beyond that even, or just besides that, not even on that level. I've dealt with people that, you know, abandonment or abuse, different things. And we all get caught up in our own little world about what these things are, but there's levels to it. And then you talk to somebody that's lost their family in an accident and you're like, dude. I mean, I guess that the phrase, it could be when you're going through something, it could always be worse. You know what I mean? Like, that's what you have to kind of think. I don't know, I, I sometimes I, I get off on the, you know, off a topic on this, like, off track.

[Mason Sawyer]

Because so deep, even for me, like, as bad as it is, it could have been a lot worse. Like, Blue was so close to dying. Like, I interviewed one of the guys that rescued Blue from the car and.

[C Rock]

Did you really?

[Mason Sawyer]

Yeah, he had, he had to put the car out with a fire extinguisher twice.

Oh.

If it wasn't for him, Blue would have been burned alive and, and then I would have taken my own life for sure. And so that's how close the headline would have been. Like, whole family Diesel dad takes his own life at the apartment, waiting for his family. Like that would have been a story.

[C Rock]

Yeah.

[Mason Sawyer]

You know, I think. And it's taken me years to, you.

Know, try to find gratitude again, but no, there's definitely. My story could have been a lot worse for sure. And as I've interviewed people, I've quickly learned that my story isn't that unique. Actually. There is horrible things happening to people like me all the time.

Yeah, yeah.

[C Rock]

Again, there is levels. And, and so, all right.

[Mason Sawyer]

I think the levels is important to bring up, especially for men, because we compare it, we compare that, we compare grief, we compare trauma. And that's one of the things that.

Keeps men from talking is they hear my story like, oh my God, this guy lost all that. I'm just going through a divorce or I just lost a brother or whatever it is, and then they feel like.

[C Rock]

Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Not even that. Like, even like, oh, I'm not making the money I think I should be making. I'm not having the best month this month. I mean, come on, man, really? Like that. But, but again, it's. You need to talk about the things that are in your mind, no matter what level it's on, right? Is that what you're saying?

[Mason Sawyer]

Yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying.

And that's the way I look at grief now. Like, I don't compare it. I think comparison is the, the thief of grief. Like it doesn't do us any good to compare it and then decide not to talk about it. I think grief is just different. Like you said, it's just different, man. It's just not better or worse. It's just different.

[C Rock]

Yeah.

[Mason Sawyer]

And I, I think when we live in that world, it's easier for people to talk to each other and not feel so alone.

[C Rock]

Yeah. And, and Your son was 4 at the time.

[Mason Sawyer]

He was, he was like a week away from turning four.

So he was three, but I mean, basically four.

[C Rock]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So does he have any memory from it or.

[Mason Sawyer]

No, when I, he doesn't. When I interviewed the guy that helped.

Pull him out of the car, he met. He wanted to see Blue, you know, because he follows Blue and loves him.

But, but Blue didn't remember him at all.

And, and he doesn't, he doesn't remember much.

[C Rock]

How, how have you, how have you broached the subject at all with him?

[Mason Sawyer]

I was very upfront with them. They're dead. They're not coming back.

I wasn't using confusing language like they're gone or they're missing or they're sleeping or they're like they're dead.

And then I let him see me cry.

My therapist and my dad told me, like, you know, don't hide it from him all the time. He needs to see you cry.

And so, you know, just crying. And as a, as a public speaker, I brought him to some of my.

Speaking events so he can see me.

Talk about them and cry about them and show pictures of them and see that it hurts and see that it's always going to hurt. And we love them and we had.

A beautiful life with them and we talk about them all the time. We have pictures up of all of them around the house and we try to keep their memory very much alive in our day to day life.

[C Rock]

You know, this is why I like, in person podcasts sometimes better. I mean, there's definitely benefits to virtual for efficiency, right? And you can have access to more people, but, like, in person, like, I can give you a hug, bro. Like, you know what I mean? And I wanna, like. I wanna just like, dude, like, you know, for. For everything you've been through, and I just kind of wanna. I wanna, like, kind of sit in it with you, it, you know, in some form or fashion, because I think that it makes you appreciate what you have more when you're around people that. That have been through things and. Yeah, man. You know, and I. I think I. I truly think I suppress some things. You know what? I. I'd love to hear your take on this. I. I had a friend, he wasn't really close, but I knew him pretty well, and he committed suicide. And I was shocked because I didn't see that in him at all. Like, he didn't share that out in public, what have you. But then it would happen. I was like, oh. When I first heard it, I was like, wow. Like, shocked in a way. Like, I was surprised in a way. But I feel like I've been desensitized to. To the things like, these things because I've been through so many of them. And I think that when I'm doing that, I'm kind of suppressing, allowing myself to get into an emotional state because I'm afraid I'm going to be stuck in it. Does that make sense?

[Mason Sawyer]

Yeah.

[C Rock]

And I don't want to be stuck in it.

[Mason Sawyer]

No. You're talking about denial. This is one of the stages of grief. And you're also talking about numbing and running from our feelings, which we do all the time. And I think when we. When we talk about numbing and running, we usually think about drugs and alcohol, which is definitely true. Top of the list. Definitely not a good way to handle things. But we numb and run in all sorts of ways. Whether it's working, you know. You know how many men numb and run, which is, I'm gonna work ye. Work, work. 60.

I'm just gonna work. Other people, it's video games, other people, it's food. Other people, it's not food at all.

Don't eat it ever. Other people, you know, there's just so.

Many ways that we choose not to think about it, not to feel it, not to talk about it because it's painful. But then trying to run from it, it's just gonna creep into your life in other ways. And then when someone cuts you off in traffic, and you're cussing them out. It's because you haven't talked about your.

Divorce or your dead dog.

It's not the person in front of you. Like, you're just so mad all the time, and it's hard to even recognize why.

Because. And you mentioned it earlier, no one wants to sit in it long enough. That's one of the main problems with grief, is we love each other so much, and it hurts so much.

Like, let's just find verbiage that reduces pain so you'll see him again.

Everything happens for a reason, and you just go down the line with it.

And it's all because it's so unfair, and it's so brutal. We can't handle it.

So we get out the numbing cream, and we try to. Try to take the edge off a little bit, which is understandable.

[C Rock]

Yeah. Because, you know, then you hear life. Life has to go on or it doesn't. One or the other. You can't be in the middle. So you either going on or it's not. It's over. And. And I just. I just. For me, man, like, I just don't want to get stuck in it. I think that's for me, and I just want to. Okay, life's got to go on, so let's just. And. But then you can get into the other feelings and emotions of, like, guilty, because you're starting to move on, and then you're enjoying other parts of life.

[Mason Sawyer]

This is. This is one of the hardest parts is this balancing act.

[C Rock]

Yeah.

[Mason Sawyer]

It's like, okay, I know if Courtney talked to me, she would say, like, go be happy. Like, go do it. I know that. So, like, okay, if I lay in bed all day, I feel awful because, like, I'm. I'm not living. I'm not honoring her. I'm just shitting all over life.

[C Rock]

Yeah.

[Mason Sawyer]

So then you go have a. You go have a good day. Maybe even two. Maybe even a week. And then, boom. Like, the shame and the guilt, like.

How can you be happy? Like, your family died? How dare you laugh at a joke?

How dare you go to a movie? How can you enjoy a meal? And you just kind of get beat over with. With the shame guy?

And so then you don't want to feel happy at all. You just want to lay in bed all day. And. Yeah. You. I still have days like that all the time.

[C Rock]

Yeah. Yeah. 2014, on Father's Day. I don't know if I told you this when we talked before, but we were coming home from the beach, going to a cookout and somebody T boned us. And I was going about 45, 50 miles an hour. They T boned us. And I was in a big suv, thank God, and we turned sideways and flipped and rolled over three times and landed on the roof and skidded. Luckily, we didn't hit a. Another car or telephone pole or something. I was. That's what I was concerned with the whole time it was happening. I'm like, this can't be it. That's one thing that was going through my head. This can't be the end. This can't be the end. Don't hit anything. Don't hit anything. Please just come to a stop. Like, it seemed like it was probably a matter of 20 seconds after the impact that we stopped or maybe, I don't know, felt like forever. And we got out with just bumps and bruises and scrapes, and it was so violent. I couldn't imagine that the kids, if I make it, the kids, there's no way that they're gonna. And so that was a wake up call. And after that, I, like. Like, it really added fuel to my life because I was like, man, like, that could have been it right there, and it wasn't. So now I gotta, like, I. I have a duty and obligation now. I gotta find what my mission is on this planet, surrender to it, and then lean in unapologetically. And I still fight with that every day now. Like, am I doing enough? Am I. Am I doing what I'm supposed to do? Like I got a second chance. I look at it that way, you know, or. I don't know, man. It's. It's. It's very interesting to think about these things and really take time to contemplate them. So five years now, six years now, give or take. Has it got. Have you noticed it gotten. What's, what's that?

[Mason Sawyer]

Four years?

Almost five years.

Yeah.

[C Rock]

Has it gotten. Has it gotten better? Has it. Has it become easier to navigate life?

[Mason Sawyer]

No, I think it gets worse. Year one, year one was probably the easiest because you're just in so much. Or at least for me, I was just in so much shock, I didn't even know what planet I was on.

And then year two, three, four, like, reality setting in.

Like, this is actually the rest of my life and they're gone.

And, you know, you just. I don't really have much control of.

My thoughts, really, with the grief. I just. You know, I see a kid's backpack and it reminds me of Riggins. Or I see a little girl playing it reminds me of Frankie just kind.

Of battling, trying to be in the.

Moment, because I understand that's one of the gifts. Like, you have to be in the moment, but it's also hard because your mind is just thinking about dead people.

But I think me talking about it so much, like starting a podcast and being a public speaker and just telling.

The story over and over and crying and over and over in front of so many people, over and over, I think that's helped. I think that's helped me a lot. It's helped me get stronger. And so I will say I. It's easier to carry the weight. I'm able to tell stories about them and look at pictures of them and smile and appreciate it sometimes instead of just crying all the time.

So, yeah, I think, I think from the outside world looking at me, I think people would see what they would call progress.

Not a lot of people ask me how I'm doing anymore. I. I think being a podcast host and having followers has tricked people into thinking I'm doing good.

Like, oh, like, I'm not doing it.

I. I'm looking for answers here.

So, yeah, I think, I don't know. I think it's. It's just a mess, dude. I think in some ways it has gotten better, I'd say, but in other ways, it's definitely gotten worse. And for me, like, I'm having a tough time feeling and understanding the grief. Like, is this Courtney that I'm feeling.

Or is this Frankie, or is this my brother? It's just all a one blob of awful feeling and I'm just trying to unravel it and I just want to be able to grieve over them individually?

[C Rock]

Yeah. Do you find that people have, like, feel like it's awkward to talk to you or bring things up about that that know you or know of the story?

[Mason Sawyer]

I do very little socializing. Like, I don't go out a whole lot, and if I do, my headphones are in, my head is down. So, you know, 90% of my conversations.

Are in a podcast setting like you, where people are actually listening. And so most of my conversations, I think, are very beneficial and I'm being heard.

I. I think, yeah.

I think, to answer your question, though, I think, yeah, it might be hard for some people, but I think I, I'm just as responsible. Like, I, I do so much self isolation and avoid people that, you know, it's hard to put too much blame on anyone else, really.

Do you, do you.

[C Rock]

Do you feel like sometimes that you should Extrovert more.

[Mason Sawyer]

Yeah. But it just turns into. You just get pity, you know?

[C Rock]

Yeah. Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Yeah.

[Mason Sawyer]

People feel bad for you.

Sorry.

I don't know why I'm crying over this.

All right.

[C Rock]

It's all good.

[Mason Sawyer]

But, yeah, just. I don't know what I want.

I just want to feel heard.

Like, I want to feel. I want people to see my family's faces and, you know, let me share a story about them. But, yeah, I.

Yeah, it's. It's been hard, man.

[C Rock]

And how about the rest of the family? Like, has it hurt relationships? Has it brought people closer together?

[Mason Sawyer]

Yeah, I mean, the family's hard because.

We, you know, we just have different opinions of. On death and religion, and so we just don't relate a whole lot. But definitely have tremendous support and love from them, and they've helped me so much. But we definitely don't see eye to eye on everything.

So there's frustration there.

And that's just culturally, too, like, the culture I live in, we don't believe in death. Like, no one believes in death. Like, they believe a guy came and conquered death and there's no death. And so I'm crying about my dead family. And the culture is like, they're not dead. They're just in a different room. And when you die, you'll be with them.

And so it's just kind of like. And I'm just, like, really hurting over here. So. Yeah, there's.

There's frustration there, too. But I. I don't know. I. I think, again, any frustration I have in a relationship with anyone, I think I'm at least 50, responsible, if not more so. I. You know, I gotta just, you know, not. Not worry about it too much.

[C Rock]

Yeah. I mean, first of all. First of all, when. When we go through things and we continue and persevere through things, no matter what it is, they say, well, that it forges you. And if you keep going, there's something really amazing on the other side. Now, if that's. If that's the truth, it can't be just when you lose some money sometime or you get an injury or this and that. It's gotta. It's gotta cover the board.

[Mason Sawyer]

Right?

Yeah.

[C Rock]

And. And so, like, you ever think about that? Like, look, I just gotta keep going. And there's got to be something. There's got to be something amazing on the other side of this. Whether it's when you pass or whether before you pass, maybe on in this. In this lifetime, like, does that ever cross your Mind, like, there's gotta be something. Like, I gotta grab onto something. Like, what keeps you going? In other words.

[Mason Sawyer]

Number one answer, what keeps me going is Blue for sure showing up for him. But, yeah, I definitely have faith and hope that I'll see them again and this will all make sense. I. I think everyone has that feeling. But I. You know, when they died and I got a phone call like, your family's dead, I never felt everything happens for a reason. It felt, and it feels just really awful. And I think one of the questions.

I deal with every day is, you.

Know, is living worth the cost? Like, is it. Is it worth it?

Is this worth it? Because there's just a lot of pain going on, and I think that's where.

A lot of my faith and my hope rests, is in that idea is like, I think it's worth it. As bad and as much as this hurts, I'm still happy, actually, with Blue. Like, I still get to be a dad. And I see so much of Courtney and Riggins and Frankie and Race and Ryder and my son Blue. And I have. People have it way worse than me.

I have it so good compared to.

So many people, and I have a great life.

And so, you know, I'm able to.

Find gratitude and have faith that living life every day is worth it. But, yeah, it's hard, man. But I think just the expression of keep waking up every day and keep going is my expression of, yeah, I think maybe this will all make sense one day. Yeah, maybe.

[C Rock]

Well, through this, have you given up on God?

[Mason Sawyer]

I. I just.

I'm assuming you mean, like the Christian God.

[C Rock]

Yeah.

[Mason Sawyer]

Yeah.

[C Rock]

Well, your creator, whatever your higher power is. Have you. Have you given up or have you. Have you had a chance to say, you know what? I'm going to trust that. I'm going to just trust in this because it's really. What's the alternative? I. I don't know.

[Mason Sawyer]

I think I'm more of a nihilistic. So, yeah, I don't think anything means anything. I. You know, my wife Courtney was a nurse. She.

She was such a good person who.

She died, like, being good doesn't matter. You don't get any blessings. You don't get. No one's gonna remember you. You don't get to go to heaven. And that's actually what makes being good Good is for no reward. Like, no one will notice. No one will care.

Will you choose still? Would you still choose to do good?

And that's integrity.

That's what it really means.

[C Rock]

Yeah.

[Mason Sawyer]

And so for Me, I, I think I'm just more of a nihilist.

I don't. And I know, I know that sounds dark, but it doesn't have to. It's not that bad. Like, nothing matters.

And you can choose to cry about.

That and feel sorry and be scared about it, or you can make the most of it and try to make.

Try to find meaning and try to find purpose. And that's your job as a human.

Being, I think, is you gotta go.

Find what makes life life for you. So the God thing is just interesting because I just don't.

I'm not mad at God. I'm not.

I just don't think there's a guy there.

And I'm sorry. Like, you can, like, yeah, yeah, I get it.

[C Rock]

I get it.

[Mason Sawyer]

I'm not like, yeah, 90, 90 of.

The people I interview believe in God. Like, so go for it. Like, I'm not saying anything. Like, I don't know anything.

I thought I was gonna be old.

With Courtney, with grandkids, and I'm not. Like, I'm totally wrong, so I could.

Be wrong, but I'm just, I'm just.

Trying to be honest with you.

[C Rock]

Like, I. Yeah, yeah, sure.

[Mason Sawyer]

Like, in my core, I, I don't think there's a guy looking out after us.

[C Rock]

Yeah, yeah. And that, that could be a journey as well. Right? I mean, you need to, you leave yourself open.

[Mason Sawyer]

You interview me 10 years from now.

I might be the Southern Baptist or something.

The grief journey is, It's a crazy ride.

[C Rock]

Yeah, yeah. As long as you leave yourself open to exploration and.

[Mason Sawyer]

Sorry, I will say this, like, I.

Love the story of Jesus and I, I mean, I try to be Christ, like, and I, you know, I try to do those things. I try to treat other people how I want to be treated. So I think there's tremendous value in it, for sure. So, yeah, I'm not, not against anything. I'm just, I'm open minded. I'm. I'm more about listening and try to figure out what other people, how other people are getting through grief. Yeah.

[C Rock]

And by the way, I have no judgment, no judgment on that whatsoever. I mean, because I, you know, until you walk in somebody's shoes, you really don't know what it's like. You really just don't. Now let's shift to the podcast side of things and what you've done after this now and, and like, what are some of the things that you've learned on the journey with the podcast and speaking and everything in the last four years. And talking to the other people and having a chance to talk yourself.

[Mason Sawyer]

You know, you buy the podcast set and you start podcasts and. And you just think of things that you have to say, like, what am I going to say? How am I going to fill up all this time? I think it took me a long time to realize as a podcast host, like, and especially with grief, like, dude, it's about listening. There's the other side. Huge.

And I think in our society, we've.

All fallen in love with talking. Like, I'll start a podcast and talk. I'll get on social media and talk and. Or.

[C Rock]

Or wait. Or waiting to talk. Like, you could be. I could be sitting here, right?

[Mason Sawyer]

And I'm just thinking, like, once he's done, I'm gonna say, I've been wanting this. And you can totally tell. Like, when I talk to people, I. It's so easy to tell.

Like, oh, they're not listening. They have an agenda and they're going through it.

Yeah. And so I think. I think that's one of the things I've learned, is I learned that through grief is because there's no fixing it.

I've never sat with someone in a podcast or in a grief guide session, and at the end of the session, they're like, well, like, grief's gone. Like. Like.

Like, no, it's a life sentence.

But when people are heard, man, like, beautiful things happen. There's connection. They don't feel so alone. It gives them so much energy and strength to carry. The weight of.

It changes everything. So I think.

I think just listening would probably be my number one answer.

And then just showing up, dude, like.

Every week, you just have to keep. I. I don't know about you, but I've wanted to quit podcasting so many times. And so it's just because sometimes you.

You have a cool guest on, right?

And you think, like, man, this is awesome. And, like, no one. No one gives a. Actually, like, it doesn't. No one cares.

And so it's just about. We post once a week.

And I just think you have to be consistent, man. Like, week in, week out, you have to keep showing up.

And then I have an audio guy that uploads all our stuff, so I don't have to listen to me or watch me or pay attention to how many listeners we have. I. I have no idea with any of that stuff. And I love that that's one way.

I can get through it, because I.

Have a tough time listening to my own voice. So I'd recommend that to someone as.

[C Rock]

Well, yeah, I, I'm the same way, man. Like, I hardly ever listen to any of the episodes. Once in a while I'll do it. I have a cool guest and I want my wife to hear the, the episode. So we're in a car. I'll say, hey, you gotta check this guy out.

[Mason Sawyer]

Like, there's parts I really laughed at or something.

Like, I want to listen to that part.

[C Rock]

Yeah. You know what's cool about that? When you do it, like, very, very rarely is you realize how far you've come since you started.

[Mason Sawyer]

Yeah.

[C Rock]

And you don't realize that until you listen.

[Mason Sawyer]

I realized we're at 170 episodes. Dude.

[C Rock]

Congrats, man.

[Mason Sawyer]

I don't know, like, that's, That's a lot.

[C Rock]

Yeah, yeah. Most people don't get past 10.

[Mason Sawyer]

Oh, that's true.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[C Rock]

Well, where can people, I guess, find. They can find it on, on all the, you know, their favorite podcast platform, I'm sure, right?

[Mason Sawyer]

Yes, we're on all the major platforms. Spotify, Apple, Music, whatever else, I think so. You know, we have a, we have an Instagram. I think we have a Tick tock. We have a YouTube. So, yeah, try to find us.

[C Rock]

All right, guys, go check out Mason. Mason, thank you so much for sharing today. Being vulnerable, I mean, that's.

[Mason Sawyer]

Yeah, you know what? You know, what are you gonna do, man?

I'm not.

[C Rock]

Sorry, man. It's all right. Yeah, I mean, I. If you didn't, you know, the inauthenticity, it doesn't really resonate as well, you know, I'd rather people just come on and let it, Let it flow, man. Whatever. Whatever it is. But, man, I, you know, one thing I want to do is I want to introduce you to my community, if I haven't already, because I think you can impact a lot of lives in there, you know? And I have to wrap this up. I'm just going to say I like this past week, right before Thanksgiving, I was going into this idea because I'm. I'm a businessman. I got a business, right. And I'm thinking to myself, gosh, man, like, Thanksgiving always has to hop right in the middle of the week. Why can't they put it on a weekend like, everybody's gone in our business. I'm trying to hit numbers and I'm all focused on this stuff, right? And I'm like, gosh, man. And then when's Christmas this year? I said to my wife and she goes, I think it's on a Wednesday or Thursday. And I'm like, oh, you gotta be kidding me. Why can't it be on the weekend? Like, why do we. Like, everybody just checks out, you know, and then that impacts our business. And I was being so ridiculous, honestly. Like, I. Looking back on if I'm just being honest with you right now, and. Yeah, you know, but I set goals out and I want to hit them, and I just. This and that. I want to help so many people and I was being shallow with it, honestly. And, you know, I. I'm just, you know, I don't know. I'm glad I have the chance to reflect on that today. So.

[Mason Sawyer]

Yeah, and I. Thanks for having me. And I. I appreciate any opportunity I get to talk about them and talk about grief and try to help other men open up and talk about their stuff too, because we all got something.

[C Rock]

Yeah, brother. Well, thank you so much, man. I'll shoot you a text after this, okay?

[Mason Sawyer]

Okay.

Appreciate it.

[C Rock]

Hang tight while I wrap this up, folks. That's this episode of the Woody Made up show with your boy C Rock and Mason Sawyer sharing what he's made of. Hope you got something out of this episode to impact your life and impact the lives around you. Let's make this world the best place it possibly can be with our input. Until next time, make sure you hit the subscribe follow button at the top of your favorite podcast platform. Keep coming back. Be that one.