← What Are You Made Of?
What Are You Made Of?
The Power of Choice: Owning Your Leadership Journey with Margie Warrell
00:32:32
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- [00:00]
A
Welcome back to this episode of the what are you Made of show. It's your boy C. Rock here I'm with Margie Worrell and she is going to share what she's made of today. Margie, welcome to the show.
- [00:08]
B
Great to be with you, Mike.
- [00:10]
A
Yeah, it's my pleasure to have you. Let's, let's get into this, this ingredients that have gone into making Margie who she is and how you got to doing what you're doing today. And of course we're going to cover what you, what you talk about when you're on stage and, and, and doing your thing. But what are you made of, Margie?
- [00:29]
B
Ah, energy. Energy in many forms, but I think at the heart of it I am made of all of the traits that make up what it is to be human. And all of that is about energy.
- [00:44]
A
Yeah, I love it. Yeah. And then it's what kind of energy? Right.
- [00:47]
B
Well, that can be many things on a given day, right, Mike? Sometimes it's filled with passion and courage and commitment and other times it's self doubt, which I' obviously isn't an energy that serves me or anyone else. But that's where it's about managing and mastering our energy. There's what it takes for us to, to be the humans we can be.
- [01:11]
A
Yeah, well, and one of the things you focus on is leadership and, and human behavior. I study human behavior like I'm obsessed with it. And in, in your studies, who's been some of the like people that you've looked towards in when it comes to leadership and, and really stuck out to you early on.
- [01:29]
B
Oh gee, the list is long. Early on. If I'm going back a long way, Mike, I would say early on were people who were much more in this psychology and, and I guess or even spiritual realm from whether it was Wayne Dyer or Scott Peck who wrote the Road Less Traveled, which was a seminal book for me early on. Stephen Covey in that, in that. That's going back 25 years. But over the last 25 years there's been a lot of other still around today like Amy Edmondson, I mean Daniel Cunningham, who wrote Thinking Fast and Slow. So I draw on a diverse group of, of experts and thought leaders who've really shaped my own thinking.
- [02:11]
A
Yeah. And what were you doing when you started thinking about talking about leadership? What were you doing?
- [02:15]
B
At the time When I first started thinking about it, I was actually working in client services, in business, in marketing. But that was. I probably was less hardcore thinking leadership in terms of leading others and more about how do we lead ourselves? And I was actually living in Papua New Guinea.
- [02:34]
A
Oh, wow.
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B
Yeah. And I found myself the confidant of a lot of people who are super smart, wicked smart, capable, accomplished, educated people who really sabotage themselves in their own patterns of thought and behavior. And I had a pretty limited toolkit. And I was like, how come they're smart people? And even me, I was struggling too, in my own ways, keep doing things that hurt them, that work against what I know what they want most. So that really jettisoned my curiosity to. To become more masterful myself. One in my mastering myself, but also in how can I help other people lead themselves better? Because all leadership starts with self leadership.
- [03:17]
A
Yeah, I was getting ready to discuss that. One of my core values is leadership starts with me. And if you can't hold yourself accountable, there's no way you're going to hold other people accountable because you'll see the misalignment. You'll feel like a fraud.
- [03:28]
B
Yeah.
- [03:29]
A
And. And you can't move forward with. With confidence.
- [03:31]
B
Well, it's not just holding accountable too, Mike. It's. It's like how do we manage all of those negative impulses and negative patterns? Or are they managing us? And so often we've got these deeply etched patterns from when we were five years old and we were left out, or our parents didn't give us the attention we needed on a particular day and we created some story to protect ourselves. And yet that gets kind of so deeply embedded, we don't even realize how it's holding us back as a 25, 35, 45, 65 year old.
- [04:06]
A
Yeah, yeah. We call those priors. Right. Things that happen in our lives that have really left an imprint on us or have emotional charge that that's there. And when we go into that situation, we feel that and we go back to that memory. Right. And that identity that we were at the time.
- [04:22]
B
And I. And just on that, we can't always remember the specific thing. It's not always a vivid memory. Sometimes it's like, I don't know why I'm. And you know, it may be something happened that's beyond what we're consciously aware of, but it's still really imprinted on us. So, yeah, that's. That's part of what, you know, leadership's all about.
- [04:42]
A
Well, and I think a lot of the times, I would say the majority of the times it happens after we fail at something or we have something not to go as planned or as we expected, even as a youngster, and then we create a decision right after that moment, and then that decision leads us subconsciously into our future. Until we go back and figure out there's a decision somewhere. You don't have to remember the vivid scenario that happened, but that decision, we got to identify that decision. What is that decision? That's controlling my future.
- [05:09]
B
Yeah.
- [05:09]
A
And creating everything. Right.
- [05:11]
B
And maybe we failed. Maybe we felt unworthy. Maybe we were marginalized or left out. You know, it wasn't that we did something and failed. It's just in that moment, we didn't feel loved, accepted, worthy, whatever. And I find often, Mike, when you peel back enough layers, there is a deep seated fear of being inadequate.
- [05:35]
A
Oh, yeah.
- [05:36]
B
Some level a measure. And it can drive people. And I've worked with a lot of what I call insecure overachievers. That can manifest in many ways. It can manifest in people just being out there to just prove that they are more than worthy and, you know, but it can also leave them on a treadmill mill where they just never stop. It's like no matter how much they accomplish or achieve, it never really satiates that need until you get down into it.
- [06:02]
A
Yeah. You know, and I think also, as we've gone through these experiences in life, you know, what I notice a lot is that we take it for granted, the expertise that we've generated from our experiences, and then we. It's, you know, the novelties worn off. And we don't take enough, you know, give ourselves enough credit for the things that we've come and built ourselves into. And we think everybody knows what we know. So. So you wrote a book, Right? So when you write in a book, did you ever go through it when you were writing a book and reread it? Like we have to when we're going through editing and all over and over and over again. Did you ever come up with it? Like, the thought come to you that everybody knows this stuff is this really profound?
- [06:39]
B
Yeah. Yeah.
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A
And then you have to, like, talk yourself through that. Did you go through that yourself?
- [06:44]
B
Did I go through it? Do I still go through it? Absolutely. And you know, it's funny. I've actually written six books, and my most recent one is. It's called the Courage Gap. But I remember my very first book. Mike and I wrote it. I had four kids, seven and under at the time, and I just wrote it in the cracks of life because I felt really passionate. And the first chapter of that book is called the Courage to Take Responsibility. I mean, it's about owning your life, your experience of Life, regardless of all the things that others may have done that contributed to, you know, what you see as your problems. And I actually had a sibling. I'm big sister of seven. One of my siblings said, you know, Maggie, this book, it's just like common sense. I mean, I don't know who buys books like this. It's just common sense. Seriously, like, yes, not particularly supportive, and I won't name said sibling, but, you know, I think it's an Aussie, you know, bring each other down sort of thing. I remember, like, you know, if I didn't have enough self doubt as it was, it was like having a sibling say, I mean, this is all just common sense, but how often do we meet people stuck in a victim mindset who are like, in that pity party? It's not fair. This shouldn't happen to me. You know, I'm a victim of whether it's generational, something systemic, something, you know, bad parents, whatever, you know, betrayed husband. And I'm like, take ownership. Like taking responsibility. It's such a core, fundamental 101 concept. And yet even me having studied this, written about this, sometimes I find myself in a bit of a funk at times going, oh, it's not fair. Shouldn't have happened. I'm like, Maggie 101, take ownership. So sometimes we need reminding of what we already know. Yeah.
- [08:33]
A
You know, taking ownership allows you to assess the situation, to see what you could have done differently. The thoughts you could have had, the words you could have spoke, the actions you could have taken, and also the environment that you allowed around you.
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B
Yeah, Amen.
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A
Right?
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B
Amen. But also, like, sometimes shit happens. Sometimes we find ourselves in a circumstance that we maybe didn't actively contribute to. It wasn't something you go, whoa, I shouldn't, I shouldn't have done that. But we always get to choose our response to it. I mean, the word response, able, you know, like, how do I choose to respond? And a key, you know, experience of mine, and it's worth probably sharing. When I was living in Papua New guinea, and I'm going back 25 plus years, I found myself when I was 5 months pregnant with my first child in an armed robbery with a gun at my head, being told, open a safe. I couldn't open it. I was. It was at my workplace, but I didn't know how to open it. And then they were like, get down on the ground. And this guy put his hand up between my legs. And at that stage in png, it's a pretty dangerous country. I was really scared. I was going to be taken back to their village and gang raped, which was not uncommon. And it was a really scary experience. I wasn't hurt, but 10 days later, I was told, at 19 weeks pregnant, look, your baby has died. And that was a really traumatic experience. In so much as my mental maps of the world were that that stuff didn't happen to me. I knew that bad things happen to people. I knew that some women have miscarriage. I just. I knew all of that. I just never thought it would happen to me. But in the aftermath of that, I journaled a lot, I prayed a lot. I was like, what? What the hell? God? I mean, I wrestled with reality. Like, I can't believe this happened to me. But I look back on that experience and getting to a point, you know, several weeks along, where I was like, I. I do not want to be defined as a victim. I don't want people thinking of me as a victim. That is not how I want to see myself or go through the world. And I want to just really operate from a place of choice and power, you know, And I look back on that, that decision as one that was really powerful. It really, really tapped into personal agency. And I went back to study psychology. It really shifted the course, my career path, and I've been on the same one ever since. You know, we're now talking. My oldest child is now 27. So that's how. How long we're talking about. Right. But I share that because I think a lot of people can find themselves inadvertently, unconsciously, a victim of circumstance and not really saying, how do I choose to respond? How do I find purpose in this crappy situation? I might have chosen, I might not have even actively contributed to. But, you know, how do I ultimately grow out of what I'm going through and into a better, bigger version of myself than I would be otherwise? And I think anyone who's listening, whatever path you're on, we have to make that choice again and again and again and not let that negativity, you know, the fear, some of those things even people are telling us, you know, sit in the driver's seat.
- [11:57]
A
Yeah, yeah. And. And, and when this, the courage gap. What are the. What's the framework that you use in the book? High level. Kind of.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Because, by the way, being a leader takes courage.
- [12:08]
B
Oh, amen.
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A
It really does.
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B
Of course, you know, without it.
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A
Yeah. Because when you have a decision that you, You. We all know when we need to confront something, we a lot of times delay the. The confro. And then the pressure Builds up bigger and bigger until you've, you're forced, everybody's forced to confront what needs to be confronted. But it takes the courage and you already know the answer. But then you go through in your head and you got all these thoughts, well if I do make this then what is somebody else going to think and how they going to respond? How's this going to blow up on me? And all these things come when you. The right decision is always the right decision. The truth. The truth is the truth.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Right. So what is kind of the framework that you use in the curve?
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B
Yeah, no, thanks for asking. You know, it's a five point framework and it starts with what our intention is, is where are we putting, what's our highest intention? And the principle on that is focus on what you want, not on what you fear. And if you think about it, we're so often our attention's being pulled in many directions. We have innate negativity bias. We're often focused on what we don't want, what we can't do, what might happen. You know, so anytime we aren't clear about what our highest commitment is, fear's gonna just fill in the vacuum. So leaders need to really step up and go, we, what is it that we are most committed to here that's really values aligned that, that taps into a sense of purpose that they can communicate in a way that galvanizes shared purpose that others get on board. But they're going to be so deeply anchored in that themselves because you're never going to rally the troops when there's a lot of change, there's a lot of disruption. I mean we are innately fearful creatures. So the commitment to a positive outcome has to exceed the fear of a negative outcome. If you want to rally and tap into the potential of other people, but.
- [13:54]
A
Start studying with yourself and that intention creates clarity.
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B
Oh yeah, absolutely.
- [14:00]
A
And yeah, because our, our attention can be focused on a million different, trillion different things. And so if you don't have that intention set and committed to it, you're not directing your attention on yourself. And what happens. What I found, and I'd love to hear your take on this is that if you don't direct your intention and your commitment and which directs your attention, social media will, the media will, the people around you will. So you have a choice, right? Is this right? You have a choice of you set the intention and direct your attention or someone else will?
- [14:32]
B
Yeah, yeah, you're absolutely right there. You think of what we focus on expands and our attention in the Particularly we're in an attention economy. It's all always being pulled and fragmented in many directions. And there's a discipline there of like there's 50,000 things I could do today. What are the most important and what is most aligned with the highest intention, with my vision. Vision holds power, right? It's like, okay, bit left, bit right. Noted this, noted this, noted this. Note of this. As Warren Buffett said, it's about saying no to 90% of the stuff that might be good, but it's not aligned. But it also helps you combat that natural self protective tendency to play it safe, to be a little bit incremental, to shore up the status quo. And I think right now, given the level of disruption, given the amount of complexity, I mean, there's change coming at us faster than our brains are able to integrate it all. We've got to be so disciplined and deliberate about. This is my North Star, this is where I'm going. And hey, this might be great and that might be great and you might be good, but I got to keep my eyes focused on that. And I need to continually remind everybody else what lays at stake too.
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A
Yeah, the messaging that you put out with your vision and being committed to it. And what about this over explaining, you know, leaders. You find leaders that you work with that they feel like they got to explain things and over explain.
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B
There's often a pressure to do that. And I would just say you just got to know your audience. You know, don't overdo it and, but don't underdo it because some people might want more detail. And I think it's, I always say, set a bold vision with a big why. But you got to communicate the why. Why does this matter? Because unless you and others can answer it, the question for the sake of what am I willing to do this? To go out on a limb, to try something new, to innovate, to have this difficult conversation which is a huge thing where people lack courage. People aren't going to do it, they're going to play it safe. They're going to like be nice and say nothing and let it slide. And, and so you've got to be so clear and like, what's the why? Underneath it all, people need to know the why. But you've got to be really, really anchored in that why.
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A
Yeah.
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B
All right.
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A
The other four things in the framework.
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B
Yeah. Well, the second one is rescripting what keeps you stuck, stressed or living. Too safe, leading too safe. As you know, beliefs are the operating system of behavior and often we're operating on beliefs of certainties off mental maps that are out of date or incomplete. And so often when I'm talking to people and I'm coaching CEOs, you know, entrepreneurs, people that are trying to, like, get stuff happening, there's often some false assumptions they're operating from, and sometimes they get stuck. Their biggest barrier isn't external. It's in their own head, what they can do, what they can't do. I'm too old, I'm too young, it's too uncertain. You know, I don't have the right people. I don't have enough resources, whatever. And so just continually coming back and like, what is the belief system that you're operating from? And as Daniel Cunningham, the Nobel behavioral economic economist, said, nothing matters more in the moment than what you tell yourself is true. And so what are you, what's the talk track going on there? And just. It takes courage sometimes to challenge your own certainties. We can all be vulnerable to vital lies, those little mistruths we tell ourselves to make ourselves feel good, to justify what we're doing. But having the guts to just really interrogate how we're describing the reality we're in is just a huge unlock to operating from just a much more effective set of mental maps and belief system too.
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A
Yeah, and speaking of truth, isn't saying truth is subjective a contradiction to the definition of truth?
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B
Well, that's absolutely right. I mean, we often think that our way of seeing things is the way it is. It's actually just the way we see it. And we could get into, like, what is. Like what is truth? And then the fast extreme is nihilism, that it's all empty and meaningless. But I think, you know, what allows us to move through the world in a way that feels congruent, that allows us to use our time, talents, potential to achieve what we want and to feel deeply purposeful and meaningful and have authentic connection with people. And if you find yourself continually butting up against a situation, having this same problems in different clothes, like I would argue there's something about what you believe to be true that's actually not. And it's working against you.
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A
Yeah, yeah, it's huge. And, and people have to take the time to really assess that. And most people don't. They just get stuck in their loop of every single. The same cycle every day.
- [19:38]
B
Yeah, well, that's, that's part of why you. That's why you get a coach. That's why you surround yourself with people who care about you more than you. Like in what they say.
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A
Yeah, yeah. Very important. How about number three?
- [19:49]
B
Number three is about transforming the psychology of fear into the physiology of courage. Because fear starts in the brain, but it lives in the body. And so often we can go through the world like just really uptight and anxious like how we move. And so how do we use our bodies, these earth suits that we're operating out of to really process fear and transform it into a source for fuel and for bold action versus just feeling stressed out and anxious. And so, you know, I write about in the courage gap a bunch of ways we can do it, but I think at the very core, just using our breath, just taking a breath, breathing courage, breathe out fear. Like resetting our nervous system, which is called a nervous system for a reason. I mean it is nervous. It's. Its default is to being self protective, reactive. Fight, flight. And how can we transform those anxious thoughts that show up in our body in a way that actually enable us to move forward really powerfully and really grounded in actually our massive capacity to take bold, huge action. And yet so often we're not doing that because our bodies are working against us.
- [21:08]
A
Yeah. The parasympathetic and the sympathetic nervous system is to get control of that and get a handle on it. First of all, be educated on it, what it is. And then how to handle it on a daily basis is imperative. It causes disease.
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B
Yeah.
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A
It causes shortening lives. Lives. It affects relationships, affects everything. And so yeah, I've been really diving deep into that over the last few years and it's made of wonders of difference because it's so easy to get worked up.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Something happens and then you, like you said, the fight or flight takes over and you're like, oh no. But you got to remind yourself, wait a minute, look around the room and realize that you're safe.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Right. Now when you go through a traumatic situation like you went through, there's a lot of work that has to be done after that.
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B
Yeah.
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A
And you know, because that can affect everything as well in. On a way grander scale.
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B
Yeah. On a granular level. But to your point, and you asked me starting this, what am I made of? I said energy. You think about it. I mean if you think of all the cells in our body as little cells of energy and if, imagine if all of those could be rowing together in service of our highest expression in the world versus in full blown combat with each other where they're just constantly, you know, wrestling it out. And I, you know, when we, when we're sick a lot, when People are sick a lot when we get disease, you know, what is going on at that cellular level, that, that, that, that creates those conditions. And so to your point, yeah, really crucial for us, particularly today, when we're just being hit all the time, feel anxious and, and really, you know, be self protective.
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A
Yeah, you got to pay attention to what you're letting in to all your senses. Right. How about number four?
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B
Number four is to step toward discomfort, to really brave more awkward moments. And at the end of the day, nothing is more powerful for us as humans than actually taking action toward what it is we want, even though it might be uncomfortable for us to do it. And I share in the book a story of when I grew up on a dairy farm in rural Australia. Big sister of seven. As I said, my dad milk cows his whole life, very little money. And early on I was desperate for a horse. My dad went in a raffle, we won one, and he was wild, brumby out of Australia's snowy mountains. And I was just a 10 year old with a lot of nerves but determination, like, well, I'm not getting another horse. And just every day, before school, after school, learning to ride this horse, even though he bucked me off and took off and, and over about a year, I became, you know, half proficient, ended up competing in barrel races. And looking back on that experience, I realize that what I was doing was training the brave. Train the brave within me. I was really building circuitry in my brain, doing the very thing I was afraid to do, helping me to realize I can do hard things. And a principle underneath all of that is that growth and comfort can't ride the same horse. And so often our bodies are screaming at us, don't do it. Don't have that difficult conversation with Mike. Don't put yourself out there, don't launch it, don't reach out, don't stop, go and stand in the spotlight. And in fact, those, those little cues are not assigned to retreat. They're actually a sign that's exactly what you need to do. So how can we recalibrate that discomfort and brave the awkward more often? Because it opens up everything.
- [24:42]
A
And that goes back to confronting issues. And what people most of the time do is add time to the equation and then you add time to it instead of just lean in. It's a sign. Lean in.
- [24:53]
B
Yeah. I mean, as you know, as we know from Nike, just do it. And you know, the hardest part of just do it is the just, just.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Even though you've got a million reasons screaming in your Brain not to do it, just do it.
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A
Yeah, yeah. Even if you make mistakes, the mistakes allow you to learn. You can't. How can you learn if you're not doing it? And then making the mistakes so that you can assess the situation and then recalibrate. So that's huge. How about five? Number five?
- [25:18]
B
Well, you just set me up. The perfect segue. The word mistake comes from the Latin. The misstep we took a step was a misstep in the wrong direction. And number five is about finding the treasure when we trip, when we do something and it doesn't land the way we want or when we fail to do it, but when we trip up, when we fail to get the outcome we really want. And so often we beat ourselves up or we shame ourselves and we don't harvest, we don't mine for the nuggets of gold in the times that we don't get, we don't get it right. And so self compassion, which we know from research, is actually a really strong predictor for resilience and recovery. How can you be a little kinder to yourself in those moments when you mess up, you know, how can you rewrite what you're telling yourself? That story that you're not a loser, you're not a failure, you tried something, you failed to get it. Failure is an event, not a person. And what is the learning in here for you? And you know, I talk about in that chapter my own failures, and I've had so many, many, many. But when we can just extend a little grace inwards, when we can be a little more loving to ourselves as unfinished drafts of who it is we want to become, as incomplete in progress, it actually loosens the grip that failure can have over us and it enables us to pick ourselves up faster, to brush ourselves off better and to move forward, you know, as a. As a better, more evolved human than we were before. And so that to me is so crucial to this whole process because if you don't know how to pick yourself up, you're not going to risk the fall.
- [27:05]
A
Oh, yeah. You know, we've failed to realize a lot of times we've made it through everything we've been through so far, you know, and that's pretty powerful thought to have and really embody, because when you're.
- [27:17]
B
Going, yeah, and I think, you know, from everyone in a leadership role, which is the final part of the book, is about how do you make others braver? And I do a lot of work in helping leaders and speaking at things to help you create Cultures of courage. You know, imagine if everyone in your team and your business wasn't afraid to say speak up, try things and was able to quickly learn and what collectively you could do and how we show up, how we model it is so important. But how do we make sure everyone knows we've got their back? How do we make it safer for people to try things even though they're afraid they're going to mess up? And how do we share the learning so that we're all growing and learning faster as well? And I think in a world today where there's so much anxiety, people are looking around all the time. They're scared of making an idiot of themselves. We're all like trying to look good and we don't want to look bad. You know, when we can help other people be braver, it, it unlocks that collective potential and synergies to do way more than we ever could otherwise.
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A
Yeah. Now as we wind down here, I want to touch on one thing. I noticed in your bio that you worked in with politicians at some point or in government. Right. How does that differ from the business world? And because you know, most of the time you want to make the decisions that are the right decisions and people over put too much emphasis on what other people think too much in their lives. Right. But in politics you have to be concerned with voters and what they think. And also the thing that most people don't understand is most politicians are guided by the, where the money's coming from for their next election, 100%. So how do you navigate that with what you do?
- [28:57]
B
Yeah. No, So I run programs on Capitol Hill. I live just outside D.C. and I, I run leadership programs there. They're in positions of incredible influence and yet how they lead themselves isn't always aligned with their deepest values because of all of these competing, competing tensions, Competing priorities, like I gotta make sure I don't lose my funding here. So I maybe feel this way on an issue, but I, I don't wanna mess up and I don't want the backlash coming at me or retribution, et cetera. And so that's, that's, I mean that's obviously such an individual walk. But I always say be led by your values and not emotions. And there's always some level of compromise and trade off, like, but what is it going to enable me to do the most good over time? So there's always that question of does the ends justify the means, et cetera. But you know, that's an individual like you've got to reconcile yourself with your conscience, your God, that's who you're answerable to. And so I just having people get clarity like what are the values that define that you want to define yourself by? And are you able to look in the mirror and feel okay about what you've done, what you've said, what you haven't done, what you haven't said and be reconciled with that. And so, you know, the more we have of that, the better. Obviously they, they've got to continually be thinking about many different stakeholders. And to your point, where's the funding come from? What will voters vote for? You know, the factionism, you know, what will different parts of my party do if I don't toe the party line, particularly in this environment? So I think it takes a lot of courage to lead everywhere, but it takes a lot of courage to do so with integrity and character in a political sphere.
- [30:42]
A
Yeah. And this is purely speculative, but what percentage of politicians do you think really are in alignment with their values, with the way they're leading?
- [30:51]
B
Look, I have met many that I think are decent, good people. And I'm talking and I'm not talking one side of the aisle or the other. Yeah, sure, I that are really decent good people and are there for the right reasons to truly as an act of public service, do they have to sometimes make little compromises here and there? It's like so that they can achieve a better outcome to get to where they want to what they think will be of greater service. There's constantly those trade offs to be made. But I actually believe that the more than not truly are trying to do the right thing. Well, how they go about doing it, that's up for debate. But I think they genuinely are trying to do the right thing. Not all of them, but a lot of them.
- [31:42]
A
Yeah. Yeah. Well this is phenomenal conversation. I hope everybody was listening and taking something from this because you can definitely take the information that we went over today and implemented into your life. Where can people go deeper with you, Margie?
- [31:54]
B
Look, jump on my website, Maggie Worrell.com or I'm on socials, people can connect, LinkedIn or they hang out, Instagram, et cetera. And I also have my own Live Brave podcast. They can take a listen to me there too.
- [32:09]
A
What's it called?
- [32:10]
B
The Live Brave podcast.
- [32:12]
A
Live Brave Podcast. Go check it out folks. Margie, thank you so much for your time today. Thank you for your vulnerability as well and sharing some of the stories.
- [32:18]
B
Oh, my pleasure. Thanks for having me, Mike.
- [32:20]
A
All right, tight while I wrap this up folks. That's this episode of the what do you Made up show with your boy C Rock and Margue Worl sharing what she's made of. Make sure you hit subscribe or follow at the top of your favorite podcast platform and keep coming back. Until next time. Be that one.