← What Are You Made Of?
What Are You Made Of?
The Unexpected Power of Podcasting, Networking, and Intellectual Reinvention with Jay Dyer
00:37:44
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- [00:00]
A
Welcome back to the what do youo Made Up Show. It's your boy C. Rock here. I'm with Jay Dyer. He caught my attention. You know, I go on social media all the time with intention, and my intention gets grabbed by certain people. And what I do is I don't think twice. I just reach out, we grab. Grabbed a 15 minute networking call. And I like him, so I wanted to bring him on and share him with you guys. Jay, welcome to the show, man.
- [00:21]
B
Thank you. Appreciate that. I think you said you'd watched me on Sean Kelly or something.
- [00:26]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [00:27]
B
Got your attention. And we talked about Sam Hyde for a while and. And Alex Jones.
- [00:30]
A
That's right. You remember media.
- [00:32]
B
Yeah, we had a good conversation. So glad to be with you, man.
- [00:34]
A
Yeah, no, my pleasure, man. And you know, I've been doing this show for what, six years now, and I use it to build relationships. Right. I think people get into a show, some, some are there to educate, entertain. I do a little bit of that stuff too. But my main thing is great conversations lead to great relationships and you never know what can come from that. And you know, when you're, when you're going on the shows that you've gone on and the ones you host, have you noticed that the relationships that have come from it? Because most people think entertainment, education, information.
- [01:06]
B
Yeah, actually, I mean, the best part, I usually tell people this when they ask a question like that. Best part of what we've done in the last, say, 10 years of media work is the. The people I've met. So the people are way better than, you know, getting a lot of views or, you know, making money. That's all great. But, you know, some of my best friends now are people that I've met through interviews and through podcasting. In fact, Tristan Haggard, great dude, we got into podcasting together through a lot of health stuff because he was related, he was in the sort of health sphere. And then we kind of started doing more and more podcasts over the years, just overlapping. And he's one of my best friends now, so.
- [01:44]
A
Yeah, it's crazy.
- [01:46]
B
Yeah, so it's like my best friends now are coming from the Internet, but in a cool way, not in some kind of like nerdy incel way to where, like we're not all in gaming forums. Like, we're actually, you know, I've hung out in the real life, in real life with people like Whacking Ball, the Skater. He's a good buddy of mine now, so. Absolutely. That's the number one best part of, of this stuff. And I met my wife through podcasting too.
- [02:07]
A
Oh, did you really?
- [02:08]
B
Yeah. Yeah.
- [02:08]
A
Well, that's pretty big.
- [02:10]
B
Yeah.
- [02:10]
A
Yeah. How did. How did that. Was she guest or how did that shake out?
- [02:14]
B
She had a little conspiracy podcast she did many years ago, and somebody recommended me to be on her podcast from my first book, which was Esther Hollywood, which was the one that dealt with a lot of symbolism and occult themes in Hollywood films. And she was doing a topic on her podcast related to that. So she just hit me up and then we started chatting in DMS and hit it off and. Yeah. So we ended up married in 2020. So here we are on our show.
- [02:43]
A
Did you. Did you like, have a knowing. Like, I know when I saw my wife for the first time, I know people say this, it's cliche, but I just knew. I'm like, I'm marrying her.
- [02:52]
B
Not really. Just because I was at a phase where I was kind of trying to maximize my. My macking skills. So I was. I was interested in dating quite a few people at the time. I wasn't really thinking about settling down. But she was one of the first ones of recent note. I've had a few previous, you know, serious girlfriends, but she was one of the more recent. Like, she. I was like, I could actually be, you know, long term with her.
- [03:18]
A
Yeah.
- [03:19]
B
So she actually got me thinking in that way. So in that sense. Yeah.
- [03:22]
A
Yeah, that's cool. Yeah. You know, it's funny cause I. When I got into podcasting, I was doing it for exposure, you know, I never thought about the relationships and it's just a byproduct which now became the main focus.
- [03:31]
B
Yeah.
- [03:32]
A
And what were you.
- [03:33]
B
What were you first podcasting about?
- [03:35]
A
I started going on shows as a guest first. That was my main thing to get exposure and really dial in my communication skills. And I was talking about performance and scaling businesses and, you know, coming from nothing to. And brokenness to coming and creating something and an impact, you know, and people resonated with the story. I was just really authentic and raw with it, you know, and then I started this show just the same kind of thing, because I wanted to connect with interview people that I normally maybe wouldn't have access to. It's funny. Even when you have a brand new show, like, just because you had a show. I don't know if it's like this now, but when I was first starting six years ago, people would come on the show that were like billionaires and celebrities. And I'm like, why are these people saying yes to me? It was weird, you know, but I just went with it.
- [04:15]
B
So it's, it's always weird because you never know what to expect. Like sometimes there's people, I think, oh, they'll definitely come on and they never will. And then there's sort of random people that I think, oh, they would never come on and they want to. So it's. Yeah, it's a wild, It's a wild ride for sure.
- [04:32]
A
Yeah. Since we're on this topic, I always wonder how other people get access to people to come on their show that are like, you know, high level people. I, I know what I do. I mean, I'll DM them or find out if somebody knows them, if I see they have a mutual friend. But I didn't know if there's inside tracks that InfoWars has, for example, or.
- [04:51]
B
Yeah, I think in my experience has been through networking in the sense of, you know, over. It took about 10 years to build up a pretty solid kind of media, alternative media network. Started small, obviously, like you, like you said, from nothing. Like I had a little blog, you know, 10, 12 years ago that I would just put up a post a week and I put up some audios here and there and then you know, sort of followed the pattern of other people have been successful with moving over to, you know, YouTube, doing a lot more video content. And then I moved into live streaming, which actually kind of became the best fit for me. So a lot of what we do is just focused around, you know, every day or two terms of live streams. But I think the first thing that happened was I got a, a message about going on a couple bigger podcasts, like you said, with Exposure. And that led to the book deal. So I got a book deal through going on Sean Stone's podcast, Oliver Stone's son. We were talking about Hollywood and occult stuff. And then that led to other networks kind of adjacent to that in terms of people who do and put on debates. And then we got into the sphere of people who do comedy. That happened probably largely through Sam Tripoli because I did a bunch of episodes of Tripoli's podcast and he's a pretty well connected, you know, stand up. He's been on Rogan many times, good buddies with Joe Rogan. And that led to kind of all the other comedian people that we've, we've been around, including Jimmy Kennedy, people like that. And then that kind of eventually led into the, the Sam Heights. I don't remember how I first, I think I just DM'd Sam Hyde on, on X. And we Started chatting over the years. So with infowars, it's more so a broader kind of journalistic style of network. So, you know, the, the producers, they have a pretty extensive Rolodex of all the people. So I can kind of at times, you know, pull from that network. But yeah, I think it's just kind of a snowball thing. And then as you get more and more, you know, traction, people just start reaching out to you. You know, we got on Tucker, I was on the last Tucker episode of Fox because we had a friend who's his producer who converted to orthodoxy. So he reached out, was like, hey, you know, I'm producing Tucker's Fox show, would like to get you on. You know, I'm a new orthodox convert. So the weird part I think for me was it's not, it was all a snowball effect in like seemingly disparate, distinct realms. So you've got the orthodox theology realm over here, you've got the Hollywood occult conspiracy stuff over here. Then you've got kind of like journalism and media and you know, geopolitics and debates and all those spheres ended up overlapping. So I think it's just a, it takes time to just sort of build these networks.
- [07:35]
A
Yeah, and not only the networks, but it also takes time to really define your, your, your calling and, and what you're going to be talking about. Right. Because when you first get in, you really kind of whatever you have access to at the moment.
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B
Right.
- [07:46]
A
You know, and what, what were you intending for when you got into media? Like, what was your initial intention or vision?
- [07:53]
B
Again, great question, because I didn't really have a huge expectation. I thought initially I was working a wage cut job, wage slave job, and I wanted out of it. And I thought, well, I've tried all kinds of other things. And that was around the time of the Obama downturn in the economy and nobody could find a job. So it was really hard to get a good job. So I was like, I might as well just try writing a book. I think that was actually my mom's idea. My mom said something like, you know, you're good at writing and you had all these philosophy classes. Why don't you try writing a book? So I wrote the book and that led to more traction on the website and the blog and all that. But no, I had no idea. I never would have dreamt we'd be doing what we're doing now. And I mean, I'm not like some mega popular dude, but we've had a huge effect just kind of at Our tier at our level, and we're definitely growing pretty quick. We just hit 200,000 on YouTube. So, you know, I have high expectations in the next few years for more explosive growth. But I think, no, I never expected this. I was just kind of thinking initially, you know, 10 years ago, how am I going to pay the bills? Right. And then it turned into, you know, it's. It's its own thing. It became a business, it became, you know, we invest in real estate, we've got bitcoin, we've got all that on the side that the sort of media work has actually sort of propelled and funded. And then that stuff kind of becomes also another engine of funding media stuff. So. So, yeah, I just never, ever would have dreamed that we'd be doing what we do now. It's just. And it just started from wanting to pay the bills. Yeah, I mean, I had interest. It's not just that I was just trying to make money. Like, I had interest in the topic of debate. You know, I used to do debates in college all the time and. But I never would have thought debate would be so, you know, popular like it is now to where you could kind of even have, you know, I think if I wanted to, probably, and I'm not bragging, but if I wanted to just do debates, I could do a career. And just debating, to me, that's boring because I like other things too. So I like to have a lot of different things going on. I think if I just wanted to do comedy, that'd be a little more challenging because that doesn't pay very well. So. So, yeah, I never would have dreamed that we'd be working with, you know, all the people that I used to watch. You know what I mean? Like, I used to watch all these guys be like, oh, man, I'd love to do, you know, the kind of things that Sam Hyde does. Oh, man, Alex Jones, cool guy. I wish I do that kind of media stuff. And now, you know, we got to where we can. We're with these people. So, yeah, dreams come true, man.
- [10:21]
A
Yeah, it is. It is cool. And then, you know, like, one thing we don't do enough of is looking back how far we've come. You know, we're always looking to the next thing. A lot of times, and we're like, we're not there yet. We're not there yet. But I take some moments, man, I have to force myself to say, man, look how far you've come. Like, look at the rooms you've been in. Look who you hang out with, look at, you know, because I don't think we appreciate that enough, you know, so.
- [10:43]
B
Yeah.
- [10:43]
A
Oh, go ahead.
- [10:44]
B
Yeah, no, you're good. That was a great question.
- [10:46]
A
Yeah, I was just gonna say the philosophy part, man, the studying of philosophy being, you know, in debates in college and all that, how much do you think that's played a, played a role, especially the philosophy part?
- [10:56]
B
A bigger role than I would have expected. I remember meeting with, when I was first going into philosophy undergraduate program, I remember meeting with this guy. I don't remember the guy's name, but he was this long ponytail dude. And, and he said, what are your interests? And I said, well, I like comedy and I like, you know, movies, but I also do like philosophy quite a bit. And he said, you know, quite a few comedians actually study philosophy. I was like, really? I didn't know that. I had never heard that. But I forget who. I think you said Steve Martin or somebody had a philosophy degree and quite a few, you know, people have English degrees as well. So I combined the two and when I was in grad school, I did the English lit and philosophy as kind of a cognate. So, um, the, the writing that I had to do, I think was a huge thing that prepared me for where I'm at now because I wouldn't have been able to write, I think we've written four or five books now, but we wouldn't have been able to write those. I wouldn't have been able to do those had I not written so many fricking, just boring as hell philosophy papers in college and literature papers in college. So I had to do all these papers. I was like, at the time, you think, I don't know, what's the point of this? Why am I writing all these? Not even going to get paid that good. As a professor, I never would have dreamed that taking all that, you know, academic scholastic knowledge could have been later applied to the media realm to then do, you know, a lot of these popular debates. But I think one of the reasons that I'm not bragging, but just because
- [12:19]
A
we've had some success, you don't have to say you're not bragging with me.
- [12:23]
B
Well, I love hearing people short stuff. I think it's just a factual assessment that one of the reasons that we've been able to have the success we've had is because if you combine the left brain with the right brain, if you combine analytical skill sets with creativity, improv, and sort of that just inspirational approach where I like to freestyle, I like to Just do it on the spot. Those two things together can do very good. For example, in a debate, you're going to be good with analyzing the person's bad arguments. And then you're also going to be able to, on the spot, come up with, you know, clever retorts and rhetorical turns of phrase and so forth. So. Yeah, so I think philosophy and writing played a huge role, probably bigger than I would have expected in what we do, but also all the, all the theater stuff that I did when I was younger.
- [13:13]
A
Yeah. And how does it, how do you think it applied to the Hollywood conspiracy stuff?
- [13:18]
B
Well, it all ended up overlapping, I noticed when I was in undergrad because I was taking all these film classes as well as I was taking philosophy classes. And I noticed that, man, all these things are like, they're all connected. So I'm a big picture thinker. So a lot of the analysis that we do is kind of big scale, big scale geopolitical stuff. We, we lecture on the big historical text of the last century on my channel, for example. So I'm not really a guy that does the day to day politics. I mean, there's plenty of people doing that, not knocking it, but it's just not the style and the thing that I find the most interesting. It's kind of like Jerry Springer type stuff to me. So I like to focus on the bigger picture stuff and the real, the real meat of what's going on globally at a meta level. And that's why, that's why I think we were again able to integrate all these topics, including Hollywood, because I just had a fascination with movies as a, as a high schooler, I was in, like I said, theater. And I wanted to be an actor, I wanted to be a comedian. Uh, and so I wanted to then later on sort of integrate all those skill sets. So I think what happens, as you would know for many years of podcasting, like you start out, you don't really have, like, you said a lot to talk about, you're not sure what you're going to say, and you kind of focus, you pick one thing, right. And so I started with talking about movie reviews and movie analysis, right. And I kind of developed my own little unique style of how to analyze a movie from kind of a philosophical, literary perspective and tying in history and conspiracy as well as. And then you kind of, over time, more and more of your personality comes out on camera and on podcast because you get more comfortable doing it. So I think that what happened with us is just that. And I'm Saying my wife as well. Like we just kind of found all these interests and just talked about them in an entertaining and hopefully educational as well way. And it vibed perfectly with the audience. So that's, that's why I think we, we do what we do. But yeah, Hollywood played a great role and that just because it was just something I've always had a fascination with and I wanted to be an actor.
- [15:28]
A
Yeah. Yeah.
- [15:29]
B
All right.
- [15:29]
A
Well, with all that being said, I forgot to ask this at the beginning because I just got going and I do this sometimes. I have a question I start the show with every time. But now that you said all that though, esoterically even, what do you say you're made of?
- [15:43]
B
Great question. A lot of different ways I guess you could go about answering that. I guess thinking back to what we just said a minute ago, like, I guess I'm a little bit of a mix of my mom and my dad. My mom was a English major and she was an editor for many years for a science publication for Harcourt Brace Jovanovich back in the 80s when it was. That's what it was called. I think it's just called Harcourt now. But so she was a science editor, English major and historian type of person. She also was a librarian. So she had this kind of creative side to her where she's always been interested in painting and that kind of stuff. Interior design. She took interior design classes too. And then my dad was a Navy guy, so he was a very technical, engineering minded kind of dude. Big into building stuff. He built, used to build houses. He built a motorcycle from scratch one time just because he's that kind of a dude. So I think I'm an interesting, weird combo of both left and right brain and that produce this weird, odd, eccentric type of stuff that we do. But also I would say I'm orthodox Christian. So that's a big part, you know, it's the sort of, the main part, I guess, of what my definition of who I am would be, what I'm made of. And then hopefully, you know, I'm not a soy boy. Hopefully I have, you know, some alpha juice running through me. Maybe, maybe I'm a little spurgy perhaps, but not in a debilitating way. Like I have the ability to kind of focus and, you know, read gigantic texts and tomes consistently. That's the spurg power I can draw from. But I'm not so spurgey that I can't, you know, make jokes and, and do comedy. A lot of autistic people I think have you know, the inability to understand nuance and different types of humor. But. And I don't even know if I'm actually autistic. I'm just kind of making jokes. But yeah, yeah, I think, I think there's all those.
- [17:40]
A
I wasn't sure if I should laug you do that kind of joke. No, I'm like, okay.
- [17:45]
B
Most of the time I'm actually just kind of being silly. Like, if you watch my live streams, like last night we did, or two nights ago we did a. A live stream responding to a dude beefing with us. And I just played it off like it was a rap battle and I just impersonated the dude, made fun of him for several hours. So, like, most of the time I'm just trolling and having. Having a laugh. Yeah, I think a lot of people think, like, if they just see a debate, you know, they think, oh, this guy's like super serious. And well, I'm only being serious in a, you know, serious topic debate. Like, I would say the majority of the live streams we do are silly. They're just, you know, intentionally being ridiculous. So. So that's the real me is like 90 of the time having fun, you know, goofing off, being silly. And then, you know, 10 of the time I'm being serious when it comes to a topic that I take seriously, which is not that many. Right. I mean, I take the religious topics seriously and I take a few geopolitical topics seriously. But beyond that, like, I don't really, like, I'm not out here arguing politics every day because I don't really take it that seriously.
- [18:41]
A
Yeah. Yeah, well, and speaking of politics, like, you've been in kind of behind the scenes a little bit because there's some inside tracks and Alex knows some people and you have some people around you that have different, you know, connections and relationships with things. So you probably hear some things that not everybody hears about. And you know, I sometimes wonder the people that are out there at each other's throats on TV or the news or what have you really, behind the scenes, they're having dinner together and goofing off with each other. You know what I mean? So you've probably seen some of that and that's probably why you don't take it that seriously, am I right?
- [19:13]
B
Or it could happen. I just specifically meant. And I'm sure that does happen. I just specifically meant in. In terms of, like the day to day, you know, American political stuff is not something that I usually put a whole lot of time and energy into like I'll have Internet drama beefs with people and we'll have that as a, you know, thing we do for a week or two or I'll have, you know, a big fat geopolitical book over here that we're, that we're going to lecture through for the next month on the channel or something like that. But I'm not like, you know, following what happened with Trump today versus and I'm not like anti Trump or I have some criticisms of Trump, but I'm like a huge hater or anything. I'm just saying I'm not the, you know, there's a lot of people out that, out there in the media sphere that just sort of do the day to day news stuff, you know, temple type stuff. And I've been on, you know, Tim cast many times. I'm not knocking that, that venue or that type. This is not your broadcast. Yeah, yeah. It's just not the, the stuff that we do. So. But yeah, I would say in my experience all the beefs or know, drama or anything like that or the debates that I've had with people, they're all real. I haven't had any, you know, fake. We haven't, I haven't organized any fake drama yet. But maybe, maybe I'll get to a point where I organize some fake drama or something.
- [20:32]
A
I don't know, you might as well try and play around with it, see what happens. Now what is, what is writing for Sam Hyde entail, by the way? Like, I'll tell everybody this because I think I told you already, but I'm going to tell the audience my son loves Sam Hyde. He's 19 years old and he thought it was so cool that Sam and I were, you know, chatting up and I didn't, I didn't even know Sam that much, you know, that off, you know, you know, that I didn't have, I had no idea who he was really. And my son's like, are you kidding me? And my son doesn't care about anybody else that I think school that I talk to, you know, so I thought that was cool. And then you said you wrote for Sam Hyde and, and I had my buddy John Otto on Sam Hyde show as well. He's a client friend of mine and. But what's that entail, writing for him?
- [21:13]
B
Yeah, so like I said, I, I didn't ever expected that would really come about because I think I first started dming off and on with Sam maybe 2018, 2019 and, and I would suggest kind of ideas for skits or ideas for stuff here and there over the years. And he sometimes he thought, yeah, that's pretty good. But I never thought I could really, you know, kind of hook him with something. And then one day I think I made a skit that I thought was pretty funny, kind of making fun of megachurch pastors. Like, I did a satire piece about megachurch pastors, and I think he thought that was really funny. So I think after a while, just had enough kind of sample things that he thought were funny. And then eventually he suggested that he wanted to do a new type of show after they did the Million Dollar Stream season two, where it was more like an interview, Jon Stewart Daily show kind of show. And the show kind of went through different evolutions of what it was gonna be. It was gonna be like a daily kind of 20 minute daily show. And then it turned into more of like a every week or bi weekly sort of rant slash interview show. But I think the. The. So the first season is pretty much complete and I wrote for almost all of those. But the ones that really kind of popped off, the first few got just massive traction. Like the first one that was Dear elon had like 25, 30 million views. It went crazy viral. Dear Vivec had a lot of views, maybe 5, 10 million views across all the platforms. And so the first several were very politically rant oriented, and I contributed quite a bit to those. And not just politics in the sense of Democrat, Republican, but issues like H1B visas and Elon's position on that. And Vivek, is he an authentic guy? Is he a fake? Was he a good representative of conservatism, et cetera? So those were all, I think, really unique and they popped off well. And then there was a push to kind of have more guests. And then when we decided to have more guests, which I think was Sam and Ryan's idea, it turned into more like coming up with funny questions and little gags and things like that, which I'm not criticizing or I'm not opposed to that. I think that the more politically oriented rants tended to pop off better. For example, the rant that he did about the arena girl that was killed by the black guy, that one went super mega viral too, from that episode. So I think those played a little bit better. And then you can tie in the comedy with those. But the experience of it is great because it's just kind of four of us writers kind of just spitballing and all those guys are great. So it's. Ryan Rivera is kind of the main producer. And then you've got Pat Dixon, Brennan Wilds, and me. And we all vibe pretty well together because two of those guys are stand ups and then me and Ryan are just kind of what we are doing, what we do. Yeah, but, but yeah, it's a great, fun process. It's usually takes, I'd say, a little under a week to come up with the totality of an episode from the writing perspective. And then what we do is we kind of print it all out in kind of a chunk and then Sam kind of takes it and then he'll read and he'll do his version of what he's reading to kind of add to it or take it off in another direction. And then, you know, sometimes your stuff makes it in and sometimes it doesn't. So it's a blast, actually. It's a lot of fun.
- [24:55]
A
Yeah, I can imagine, man. You know, there's so many times I had an idea that I wanted to do, to do, but. But I have something inside of me that just suppresses me. Right. And, and I think a lot of people go through this. Their creativity is suppressed, their, their motivation. It's just, it's wild how creativity could flow through us. We're designed to be creative and constructive in, you know, beings, but for some reason there's, there's an effort, I think there's a direct effort and an indirect effort for us to be held back and suppressed some creativity. And have you ever gone through moments like that where you felt like maybe it's your environment, the people around you experience where you've, you know, been through something and failed and, and then you just realize, wait a minute, man, I'm not being myself. I gotta break out of this.
- [25:40]
B
Absolutely. I think the, the beginning of all this, you know, I never would have thought, oh, I should write a book and have a podcast and do YouTube and all that? Like, I just, it didn't even occur to me as something that I could do. I thought, well, that's for all these other people, and I could never do that. And then I remember after doing a bunch of blog articles for maybe five, six, seven years, I remember thinking, well, there's no reason why I couldn't take all of those and put them into a book, right? So in that sense, like, why couldn't I write a book, right? So a lot of people have these sort of mental prisons and blocks that if you think about it, they really don't make much sense. I mean, think about all the people that do music and media who are terrible, right? There's tons of people, right? So if there are people, and many of the terrible people actually end up being successful. So if terrible people can be successful, why can't you try, at least try it out, right? So you'll never know unless you try. And even if you try, of course you're not going to be popping off right away, necessarily. Some people do. That's a rare, rare event, though. But it's going to take a long time. I mean, everybody knows probably that old Malcolm gladwell thing about 10,000 hours, right? Like, you have to put 10,000 hours in to kind of be at the top of the, you know, the food chain and whatever niche you're into. So, you know, I realized, I think early on, well, if I could, if I can do this and I can do that and I can get better at it, I think I, you know, it's just a matter, I think, of confidence and psyching yourself up and saying, I can do this, I can at least try to do it. And I've actually coached a lot of people on other people's shows and podcasts because I used to do this thing with Richard Grove where he would. He would get guys wanting to do this kind of stuff, and then we do these sort of classes and seminars on how to do it and be successful. And I think most people drop out because my. In my experience, they don't want to put in the time. So they want a thing where it's like, well, I've been doing a podcast for, you know, two weeks. I've been trying to do live streams in YouTube and it's not working. So I'm done. It took 10 years, man. It took 10 years doing this all the time to get to a level of, you know, and I'm not even again, at a mega level, but just to have, you know, a consistent, successful business side of what we do, it. It took many years. Now I was able to do this full time probably in around 27, 16, 17, maybe even a little bit earlier full time. But to turn it into a more of a successful business where you're, you know, making a comfortable living, that took many more years. So if you, if you want to achieve these kinds of things, I think everybody nowadays with the way the Internet's set up through kind of immediacy and immediate fulfillment, like they're missing now, you still gotta put in the hard work. You still gotta, you know, I mean, it was only for me, it was only like last year that I started paying people to do clips and paying people to help out. Before that, we were doing everything. My wife and I were just still running everything. And now we've been able to kind of, you know, get to a point where we can outsource a lot of that. But, you know, to, to, to. But again, it took. It took eight years to get to that stage for us, so. Well, that might differ.
- [28:51]
A
Let me tell you something. Let me tell you something. You could have done that earlier and, and leverage other people's time and money, but sometimes it's like an understanding and awareness of, like, what that would actually do, you know, for me, I. So I've been in this podcast booking game and I have not ever booked one podcast for any of our clients because I learned in the mortgage business that if I wanted to really scale and grow and how much value my valuable my time is, I got to buy other people. You know, look, people think they wait, they got eight hours a day or what, however many hours they are a week.
- [29:20]
B
Right.
- [29:20]
A
But I think to myself, well, if I can buy a day from each person, each person that I leverage adds eight hours so I can have as many hours as I want, you know, and it's an awareness thing sometimes before you're able to over affording it, right?
- [29:35]
B
No, it's absolutely. I wasn't thinking in that way. I was thinking, I gotta do all this myself. And. And then I think also, if you get to a certain level of income, you feel a little bit more comfortable with, you know, outsourcing and paying people to do that. But it didn't even occur to me that, like, oh, actually, maybe we're at the level where we should be paying. And then you talk to other creators and they're like, dude, why are you not paying people to do your clips? I'm like, yeah, good point. Why not?
- [29:59]
A
And it's like what I used to
- [30:01]
B
do, I would wake up in the morning and I'd be like, all right, I got another three hours of clips to do, right? So I'm sitting there for three hours in the morning doing clips, and then it's like, okay, now it's time to do a. I need to do a live stream today. And I'm like, man, I'm exhausted from sitting here freaking clipping for three hours and I don't have the energy to put into the live stream. So, you know. Yeah, I think doing it and getting sick of it was the best way to finally figure out it's time to, you know, outsource this.
- [30:25]
A
Yeah, because I think your creativity goes through the roof. Once you start leveraging other people's time with all, you don't have to do stuff for sure. Unless you're a person that loves doing clips, and maybe that's your thing. Stick to that. But as we wind down here, Jay, I want to touch on what you've learned. You know, being around Alex Jones with the stuff that he's gone through over the last few years. And, you know, look, you. You can be mentored by someone without them directly mentoring you. I'm not saying he's not doing one or the other, but indirectly, like, what have you learned from just observing everything and how he's handled it and maybe the things he's made mistakes with and what have you?
- [30:57]
B
Yeah, that's a great question. I would say, in many ways, Alex has been a mentor for sure. I first started watching Alex in 2003, and he's kind of the one that really initially made me think, hey, I could maybe get into doing some of this media stuff. I had the interest in Hollywood and all that, but I just thought Hollywood was so leftist and degenerate. I just wasn't interested in it. But that's not the only way to do media. So Alex is a major, major figure in terms of inspiration for the stuff that I like to do and what we do. And eventually, yeah, like, it started with all of the books over the years that I would hear Alex mention on the show, and I was like, you know, because I'm a big reader, bibliophile kind of guy, I would go buy the book. Like, if he mentioned a book, I'd go get it. So I'm reading Sutton's book on Skull and Bones. I'm reading Brzezinski's book Between Two Ages. I'm getting whoever's book. And after a while, you know, I think Alex saw that, oh, this guy's actually read the books. He's, you know, got. Got good communication skills, hopefully good logical reasoning skills. He can write articles and stuff. So it started with kind of that offering of value that I had for those guys, and then eventually they were like, hey, you want to come on as a guest? And the guest spot did well enough that it was like, hey, you want to come back regularly host? Yeah, sure. So, yeah, Alex is. His mentorship has been absolutely crucial. He's not my handler or anything like that. But I would say, you know, over the years, he's definitely given a lot of positive critiques. Hey, you should do this. You should cover it this way. You bring in do. Do this angle on this. And other people, too. Right. Like, you know, Sam Hyde's been an influence, inspiration as well, in terms of the comedic stuff. Jamie Kennedy, all of our friends, Sam Tripoli especially. So all those guys, I think, have been crucial with not just advice or constructive criticism, but, like, in the case of Alex, like, Alex's ability to handle all these just horrendous lawsuits and still maintain his composure and his sanity and be who he is and continue chugging, you know, powering through. I mean, that's amazing level of, like, tenacity for. So, you know, if I ever think, oh, I'm having a really hard time now that, you know, this person ghosted me or this person left the, you know, won't do the debate, or then I look at, well, Alex is going through, like, you know, 10 times worse situation than me, so. So I need to stop being a pussy and, like, you know, face up to what's really going on here and take some inspiration from Alex. But. But yeah, I think media is such a weird. It's such a weird, crazy domain. And there's. There's so many. I mean, it's fun. It's awesome. I would. I wouldn't change it, but there's just so many weird things that you would never deal with if you were working at 9 to 5 or. And I. It doesn't bother me. I'm used to it now. I think early on it kind of bugged me. But all the weirdos and the creeps and spooks, crazy people and psychos and death threats and, you know, that kind of stuff is. Is. Is it. It makes it, I guess, exciting.
- [34:03]
A
Yeah. Yeah. I was getting ready to say, I think sometimes, like, people like Alex, for example, Trump's example of it, I think they like chaos. They, like, thrive with chaos, so they. If it's too slow or calm, they'll create some chaos because they like it.
- [34:21]
B
Yeah.
- [34:21]
A
You know.
- [34:22]
B
Yeah. I think. And people. Some people thrive in that environment. So, you know, some people who under pressure perform better, for sure, and they thrive.
- [34:30]
A
Yeah.
- [34:31]
B
Maybe that's why I like debates. Like, for me, it doesn't bother me to be, you know, in a heated debate. It doesn't bother me to be under pressure. And we've debated some of the biggest names out there in terms of atheism or Islam or whatever, you know, when they're trying to grill you and you're. You're put on the spot. Like, a lot of people would have a hard time with that, but I'm not saying that I'm to The extent of a Trump or an Alex, they've dealt with stuff a million times more intense. But just to make an analogy like, yeah, you know, yeah, I think I have a little bit of that in me, hopefully to work. It doesn't bother me.
- [35:05]
A
Preparation that you've put in and the studying and the knowledge you've picked up prepares you to be able to, you know, thrive under pressure. Because if you're not prepared, if you don't know the information about Christianity or Islam or atheism, you don't, then you're going to be all over the place.
- [35:21]
B
It does. But also there's that element I think of. You got to be able to think on your feet and think quick because I don't care who you are or how experienced you are as a debater. And even if you're debating somebody really stupid or foolish, even the stupid people can throw you a curveball because they can ask you a question or they can pose something to you that you. That just out of left field.
- [35:47]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [35:48]
B
So it doesn't matter how well prepared you are for a debate. If you do a lot of debates, you're going to get curveball questions and you're going to get unexpected questions, things that you don't exactly know how to answer. So you've got to be really good and quick in terms of answering those kinds of issues. So that's, I think, where that sort of improvisation, theater side of things comes into play.
- [36:12]
A
Yeah, it's huge. All right, Jen. Up against the clock, brother.
- [36:14]
B
Alex is a character in a theater type of dude, so.
- [36:17]
A
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [36:18]
B
That's.
- [36:19]
A
That's a part of your. What are you made of? So we're up against the clock, man. Where can people go deeper with you? I know there's a lot of places to find you, but where do you want to send them?
- [36:28]
B
Yeah, most of my stuff is always collated at the website jasonalysis.com have archives paywall there for the last 10 years of lectures, interviews, debates, et cetera. And then I have, of course, my YouTube channel, which we do live streams pretty much every other day for the most part, sometimes every day a week. But usually you can find those happening in the late afternoon, sometimes at night, but roughly every other day at Jay Dyer on YouTube, Jay Dyer on Instagram, Jay Dyer on X Rumble, etc, all those same outlets. Just look up my name.
- [37:03]
A
All right, brother, I appreciate your time today.
- [37:04]
B
Oh, and then the fourth hour of the Alex Jones show, usually on Fridays.
- [37:07]
A
There you go. Fourth hour of the Alex Jones show. On. What'd you say, Friday?
- [37:10]
B
Usually on Fridays, but sometimes it's during the week. Just. Just depends.
- [37:13]
A
All right, well, look them up, man. Go check them out. I'm intrigued by him. Cool, dude. Thank you so much for your time today, Jay. Absolutely.
- [37:19]
B
And if people want the book, they can get, yeah, all the signed copies. My third book on Hollywood just came out as circle I would three and you can get that in the shop@jay's
- [37:28]
A
analysis.com and for those listening and not watching, it's esoteric. Hollywood is the book correct?
- [37:33]
B
That is the book, yep.
- [37:34]
A
All right. Thanks, Jay. Appreciate you, man. Folks, that's this episode of the what do you Made of show. Make sure you hit the subscribe follow button at the top of your favorite podcast platform and keep coming back until next time. Be that one.