Upgrade Your Biology: Evidence-Based Biohacking for Energy, Focus and Power with Lucas Aoun

Summary

Podcast Summary: What Are You Made Of? w/ Mike “C-Roc” Ciorrocco Episode: “Upgrade Your Biology: Evidence-Based Biohacking for Energy, Focus and Power with Lucas Aoun” Date: March 5, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode, host Mike “C-Roc” Ciorrocco is joined by Australian biohacker, entrepreneur, and naturopath Lucas Aoun. Together, they dive deep into biohacking strategies to upgrade physical and mental performance, discuss Lucas’s journey from aspiring professional athlete to pioneering supplement entrepreneur, and break down the science—and misconceptions—behind today's most popular nootropics, peptides, and supplements. Lucas shares concrete insights, evidence-based recommendations, and warnings about supplementation pitfalls. The conversation stays lively and accessible, packed with actionable info for entrepreneurs and anyone interested in optimizing their energy, focus, and power.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Lucas Aoun’s Background, Discipline, and Entry into Biohacking

• Discipline as Foundation ([01:20])
  • Lucas credits “sheer discipline” as his primary ingredient for building a successful business and to his approach in biohacking.
  • Quote: “The main thing that I’m made of is I would say sheer discipline… I started my business from scratch.” — Lucas [01:20]
• Sports and Early Experimentation ([02:00–05:00])
  • Former semi-professional soccer player. Early athletic regimen taught him the value of focus and deliberately enduring discomfort.
  • Lucas became “the N of one experiment,” rigorously self-testing nootropics, supplements, and research chemicals—developing a vast internal database of subjective experiences.
  • “I was heavily interested in understanding how I can actually modify my biology to suit a specific occasion.” — Lucas [04:00]

2. From Personal Experimentation to Public Education & Entrepreneurship

• Transition to Educator & Influencer ([05:00–11:00])
  • Lucas spent years researching mechanisms of action on PubMed, then began sharing science-backed supplement tips on Reddit’s nootropics forum.
  • After being banned from Reddit, Lucas built a direct online presence through Instagram and YouTube, attracting attention from major figures in biohacking and health (e.g., Dr. Andrew Huberman, Ben Greenfield, Dave Asprey).
  • “I was really obsessed with understanding like… what is the exact pathway that it’s hitting? How can we do that with other compounds and make that sustainable?” — Lucas [05:40]
• Key Breakthrough Moment ([11:00])
  • Ben Greenfield invited Lucas onto his podcast, which Lucas describes as a “big break moment”—overwhelmingly positive turning point in his recognition and reach.

3. Lucas’ Favorite & Most Underrated Supplement: High-Dose Vitamin B1

• High-Dose B1 / Thiamine ([06:12–08:47])
  • Lucas chooses vitamin B1 (thiamine) as his favorite supplement for its profound, affordable, and under-recognized cognitive effects.
  • Mechanism: Enhances acetylcholine (key for memory, verbal fluency, recall), and ramps up energy production by converting glucose more efficiently.
  • “The clarity that you get from a high dose of vitamin B1 is like, it’s unmatched.” — Lucas [06:40]
  • Dosing: 100–400mg in isolation, not as part of a B-complex; noticeable effects, especially for high-carb eaters.
  • Takeaway: “You’ll never get a crash from a high-carb meal if you’re on high-dose B1.” — Lucas [07:10]

4. Launching a Supplement Company: IN B4

• Business Evolution ([08:47–13:45])
  • Grew from sharing info and consulting for companies (e.g., Science Bio) to offering 1:1 coaching for executives, athletes, and entrepreneurs.
  • Launched own supplement brand, IN B4, after years formulating unique stacks. Caters to nuanced needs with honest science, custom audits, and bloodwork analysis.

The IN B4 Product Line:

• Catwaba / Catuaba (Catwa Pure) ([13:50–17:48])
  • Brazilian aphrodisiac herb, acts as a natural dopamine reuptake inhibitor, supporting mood, motivation, libido, and sociability.
  • “Catawba puts him in a happy mood… helps with libido… makes you want to just talk a lot.” — Lucas [16:10]
  • Sourced from a verified supplier—takes baseline nutrition into account for optimal effect; best used situationally rather than daily.
  • Notable stack: “3 grams of taurine and 1,200mg of Catawba… makes guys feel pretty damn good going out.”* — Lucas [17:40]
• Tudka Prime ([17:53–19:37])
  • Combines TUDCA (liver-protective bile acid, popular among bodybuilders and those on high-fat diets) with ergothioneine (“Mito Prime”), a powerful “longevity vitamin.”
  • “It can work really well… beneficial for those who are on a high-fat diet, [or] feel like they’re bloating and can’t digest fatty foods.” — Lucas [18:12]
• Peak Tea: Natural Testosterone Booster ([19:37–21:19])
  • Upcoming product, designed to help those with low–mid testosterone naturally optimize levels before considering TRT.
  • “For those… not keen on TRT… because the product that I’ve formulated—there’s no peptides, it’s a natural complex… serves a purpose for those on the verge of TRT, but want to try something naturally first." — Lucas [20:00]

5. Deep Dives: Supplement Science, Warnings & Misconceptions

On Ashwagandha’s Dark Side ([25:55–28:21])

• Ashwagandha is “dangerously misunderstood” in Lucas’ eyes.
• Chronic or high-dose use can cause excessive serotonin activation and massive cortisol suppression, leading to blunted emotional response, anhedonia (numbness), and potential thyroid/liver issues.
• “It can manifest in ways where individuals feel… anhedonia, which is a blunting or numbing of the pleasure response. Basically like what an SSRI can do.” — Lucas [27:00]
• Recommends alternatives for stress/cortisol management: taurine, high-dose magnesium, and glycine (all less risky, with added longevity benefits).

On Berberine vs. Dihydroberberine ([28:39–30:00])

• Dihydroberberine (DHB) is a superior, more gut-friendly alternative to berberine (which itself gets unfair criticism).
• Effective in blood sugar regulation at lower doses and reduces risk of gut flora disruption.
• Metformin, for reference, is the gold-standard type 2 diabetes med and longevity compound.

Trend Insights: Retatrutide, Dopamine, and Addiction ([30:34–32:01])

• Retatrutide (next-gen GLP-1 analog for weight loss) works on the dopamine system: suppresses food motivation—but can also suppress overall drive/motivation.
• Suggests stacking with dopamine boosters (like Catawba) to offset “motivation drop.”
• “Pay attention. Don’t just go and do retatrutide. Make sure you pay attention to the dopamine.” — Mike [32:01]
• Has addiction-craving reduction potential.

On Nicotine as a Nootropic ([32:17–33:29])

• Nicotine is highly effective for cognitive performance, but method matters. Patches are safest (slow release, less crash/addiction). Gums/pouches only sparingly.

6. Personalization & The Future of Supplementation ([25:24–25:55, 24:02–25:24])

• “Different protocols for each individual based on their markers and panels. That’s key.” — Mike [25:24]
• Lucas critiques “one size fits all” approaches and AI-generated supplement protocols—emphasizes personal expertise and practical, real-world outcomes over theoretical or “cookie-cutter” advice.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Discipline: “Without discipline… none of it will work.” — Mike [01:43]
• On Opportunity: “I told my parents—this is my big break moment.” — Lucas on Ben Greenfield’s message [11:00]
• On Vitamin B1: “The clarity you get…is unmatched.” — Lucas [06:40]
• On Ashwagandha: “It can manifest in… massive lowering of cortisol… numbing the pleasure response.” — Lucas [27:00]
• On Supplement fads: “AI…will give you cookie-cutter, basic recommendations. It’s not about what works in theory—it’s about what actually works in real life.” — Lucas [24:45]
• On Innovation: “There’s no point just leaving them [formulations] on a spreadsheet when I know they’re going to make an impact.” — Lucas [24:36]
• On Nicotine: “It will enhance cognitive function. The way in which we use nicotine really matters.” — Lucas [32:21]

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Important Timestamps for Key Segments

• Lucas’s Origin/Discipline: [01:20–02:40]
• Sports to Biohacking: [03:00–05:00]
• First Steps Educating/Public Sharing: [05:02–11:00]
• Vitamin B1 as Underrated Biohack: [06:12–08:47]
• Start of Supplement Brand (IN B4): [13:45]
• Catwaba/Catawba Supplement Details: [13:50–17:48]
• TUDCA and Liver Health Supplement: [17:53–19:37]
• Testosterone Stack (Peak Tea): [19:37–21:19]
• Ashwagandha Warning: [25:55–28:21]
• Dihydroberberine vs. Berberine/Metformin: [28:52–30:00]
• Retatrutide and Dopamine: [30:34–32:01]
• Nicotine as Nootropic: [32:17–33:29]
• Where to Find Lucas: [33:37]

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Further Resources and Final Thoughts

• Lucas’s YouTube: Boost Your Biology
• Supplement company website: inb4sups.com
• Takeaway: Lucas’s philosophy blends disciplined self-experimentation, deep academic curiosity, and a hands-on approach to science-backed biohacking—always urging listeners to personalize their protocols, question fads, and prioritize what works for their biology and goals.

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If you’re seeking actionable biohacking wisdom, supplement clarity, and entrepreneurial inspiration—with science you can trust—this episode has high-yield insight from start to finish.

Transcript

[A]

Welcome back to the Woody made up show. It's your boy C Rock here. I'm with my guy, Lucas Owen. He is back in Australia now. Safe. What's up, Lucas?

[B]

Hey, Mike. Yeah, glad to be back, man. I was just telling Mike that, yeah, I was in living in Dubai for the past six months and you know, fortunately I'm back in Australia in my hometown now. So. Yeah, glad to be back.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. And does it take a lot of adjusting when you come back out of Dubai? Like how many hour difference is it from there?

[B]

Yeah, it's seven hour difference. It's, it's obviously, there's obviously the, the jet lag, you know, coming back, but I've got my biohacks to overcome that, so it's, it's pretty easy to, to deal with that.

[A]

Yeah. You know, magnesium glycinate is probably good. And what? Creatine? Extra creatine.

[B]

Yes. Yeah. Loading up on the, the ATP pathway have been megadosing ubiquinol as well. Yeah. High dose vitamin B1 a lot, a lot of things that just sort of ramp up that mitochondrial axis. So I'm feeling pretty good. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah, for sure. Hey, remind me to tell you about this oxygen in liquid form. A lady that's a friend of mine, I gotta tell you about this talk about ATP. Well, remind me after the show. I'll share this with you and the thing that she's doing right now. All right, so we start this show the same way every time. And that's with the question, what are you made of?

[B]

Yeah. So I've had an interesting journey. So I would say that I began starting studying naturopathy. And so the main thing that I'm made of is I would say sheer discipline, you know, like I started my business from scratch and so I would say the number one ingredient there would have to be discipline.

[A]

Yeah, I like it. Discipline's important. I mean, most of the stuff that we're talking about with biohacking and all that, none of it will work. And without discipline, you know.

[B]

Exactly, exactly. No, definitely. It's also like you hear a lot of people say putting yourself in uncomfortable situations deliberately. I think I adopted that like, philosophy early on because I actually, one of my initial goals was to become a professional soccer player. I used to play, you know, quite a lot when I was younger and my goal was to play in the English Premier League overseas. And then just through the training and matches, like, I learned about what it takes to be like, very focused, very disciplined and to do things you don't want to do which I've now applied to my business and you know, it's grown exponentially.

[A]

Well you, when you apply discipline to this, the really magical thing that happens is you start to not mind doing it when you hated it before. You know, I used to hate doing squats or burpees or pull ups or I used to hate go to the gym sometimes, right. Do cardio. But then once you, once you continuously and put the reps in, eventually it's like no, this is what I do and if I don't do it I don't like it, you know.

[B]

Yeah, no, exactly, exactly.

[A]

Yeah, well, so, so when you were growing up playing soccer, like did you get involved with like clubs and all that, like not just high school but like playing all the time year round?

[B]

Yeah, pretty much Mike. I was at one point I was semi professional so I was getting paid to play which was, I think I was like 18 years old. So for me it was like oh my goodness, I can't believe like I'm playing and I'm getting paid to play. You know, that was like a revolutionary like experience for me. But now since then, Mike, like during that, during that time like I was heavily involved in the experimental, like I was in the experimental phase when it came to supplements, nootropics, you know, research chemicals. Like if you saw the compounds that I subjected myself to from a very young age, you'd be like, man, this guy's got a data, this guy's got an internal like database. He's the N of one experiment. He's, he's captured insights from so many different compounds over the years. And I always knew that was going to be my like, like my X factor is having an enormous amount of subjective experience and a lot of experimenting with unique molecules. I was heavily interested in understanding how I can actually modify my biology to suit a specific occasion. So I used to think, all right, there are compounds out there, nootropics, supplements, peptides that can enhance know, mental focus. There are things out there that can actually make me better socially. There are think there are compounds out there that can actually put me into a specific headspace to perform on a specific occasion. So I definitely think have accumulated a lot of, a lot of experience in that regard.

[A]

Yeah, so you started doing it and experimenting yourself, right? And then.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

And then, and then how did you decide to start like educating other people? How did that all come about?

[B]

Well, a lot of my friends and family were just super intrigued with like what, what I was testing out and I'd share what I'd, what I've learned not only through research through PubMed. I used to literally spend hours and hours on PubMed every day just researching mechanism of action. Like back in the day I was the mechanism of action guy. Just like I would know how things work and it's a very like engineer brain. Even though I studied to become a naturopath, like I'm a qualified naturopath now. I was just really interested in understanding like how does taurine make someone less anxious and like I wanted to know what is the exact pathway that it's hitting and how can we then like do that in another way with other compounds and how can we make that sustainable? How can we alleviate side effects? Like I was really obsessed with that

[A]

sort of stuff for how long now?

[B]

I'd say over eight years now. Yeah, I've just been like deep, deep diving into all that sort of stuff.

[A]

What is your favorite thing now? Supplement peptide. Like what is. If you had to name one, what is your favorite.

[B]

You know what's crazy, it's actually possibly the cheapest supplement like on the market. And it's not vitamin D, it's actually vitamin B1, B1. And taking B1 in high doses. I don't know if you've had any other guests that have spoken about this before, but if you take between 100 to 400 milligrams of vitamin B1, and I'm talking about not in a B complex, I'm talking just in isolation, there is a pronounced effect on acetylcholine and you can, you can absolutely notice it if you compare it to, let's say alpha GPC or CDP choline. These are other choline donors. I find the mental clarity that you get from a high dose vitamin B1 is like, it's unmatched. It's so noticeable. And if you look at the mechanism, one of the main pathways in which it works is it actually enhances your body's ability to convert sugar into energy. And so like if you're eating a pretty high carb diet, I. E. Myself, like you will never get a crash from a high carb meal if you're on high dose B1. Wow.

[A]

Okay, so, and what, what is the, what does it increase?

[B]

What was the. So it accelerates the conversion of glucose.

[A]

No, no, there was a, there was a compound or.

[B]

Oh, acetylcholine.

[A]

Acetylcholine. What is acetylcholine?

[B]

Yeah, so for your listeners. So acetylcholine is a, is a neurotransmitter that all of us are producing right now. But acetylcholine is heavily for. It is incredibly important for memory learning, verbal fluency and like just short term recall. So high levels of acetylcholine usually equate to better memory performance, you know, verbal fluency and things of that nature.

[A]

And so you take that amount that you mentioned daily.

[B]

Yeah, well, actually at the moment I'm. Yeah, every now and then, like. Cause it has a pretty long half life, it sort of stays active in the body for quite some time. Like you can skip a day and still get the benefits from the, the day before. Like, I like using it in that regard, but in terms of what, what it's doing to your body in the long run, you're enhancing the body's ability to process sugar more effectively and you know, carbohydrates that you eat, if you eat rice, if you eat bread, if you eat, you know, these sort of carbs. No matter what carbohydrate, most carbohydrates eventually get broken down into glucose and this just enhances your body's ability to metabolize glucose.

[A]

Wow. Okay, I'll have to try that then. I'm gonna have to try that. I'm. I'm open to trying all these different things. Yeah. And then what about for the business side of things? Like how did you get into business? Like, what's the first thing you did for business on. On the business side with this?

[B]

Yeah, so. Because I was coming across. Well, actually, if you look really far back, Mark, I actually started posting a lot of free content on Reddit. So I used to spend a. I used to be that guy like eight, nine years ago, sharing studies on the Reddit forum, Reddit r Nootropics. And I used to be the guy that would share this incredible cool study on this new ingredient. So it literally started there. And then one day I joined a startup in Australia. I joined Australia's very first nootropic startup. And I had the pleasure and the honor of actually formulating that product back in the day. So I was really obsessed with formulating and putting together stacks from there. What happened was Reddit, the admin of that Reddit for some reason banned my account and that sort of forced me off the platform. And I'm like, stuff this, I'm making my own Instagram, I'm making my own YouTube channel and I'm sharing whatever I want on these channels, like uncensored, unfiltered, whatever I wanted. And then that's pretty much how it started. I started posting content on Instagram and caught the attention of guys like Dr. Andrew Huberman, Ben Greenfield, Dave Asprey. A lot of these guys, they started following me. They saw my content. They're like, shit, this guy's got some pretty cool, cool stuff.

[A]

Oh, that's awesome. What went through your mind when you started seeing them following you?

[B]

Yeah, well, actually, I've got a bit of a story about that. When Ben Greenfield started following me, he messaged me. And I can share this because he's spoken about as well. He actually messaged me on Instagram. He gave me his mobile number, and he's like, let's connect. I'd love to get you on the podcast. And I was like, I was actually on a date. When he messaged me that, I checked my phone and forget about the date. The date wasn't important. I was more interested in this opportunity. So, you know what happened? The first thing that I did was I rang my parents and I told them. I'm like, I think this is my big break moment. I think I'm about to finally be seen in the biohacking space after all these years.

[A]

How long ago was that?

[B]

It was about five years ago now.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. That's awesome. You know, it's. It's pretty cool in this community, for. For the most part, is that other people that when you know your stuff and you've done your work and you have some expertise, you're not just full of fluff. They want to help you, you know, and they're not really, like, it doesn't seem real competitive in that space for the most part. There's some knuckleheads out there. Yeah. So. So then did you start noticing an uptick and everything when you started, like, tap into these pod or these communities?

[B]

Yeah, for sure. Like yourself. I mean, the podcast was a. Like a broad reach effect, you know, that. That you get in front of his audience and then they. They pick up my content. They. They subscribe to the YouTube channel and they see, wow, this. This content's like, next level biohacking content. I would say, Mike, back in the day, I was really well known for sharing unique compounds and molecules and peptides and research chemicals. For example, back in the day, there was a company called Science Bio. Science Bio. They were like the second largest reseller of nootropics in America. And I was actually consulting for them and helping them to build their catalog to tell them which ingredients they should stock, because I knew that it was going to trend. So I sort of had the Eye for knowing, like what's going to be hot off the press sort of thing.

[A]

Gotcha. Okay, and then, and then. So business wise now, like, what do you do now you have your own line or how, how does it work to make money now?

[B]

Yeah, so at the moment I do, you know, one on one consulting and coaching for executives and entrepreneurs and elite athletes. So obviously developing their protocols and stacks, they come to me knowing that I'll do like a full supplement audit, review their protocols, you know, do blood work analysis. Because I'm a naturopath, so I understand that side of things. Well, and then second to that is I actually, it took a very long time for this to happen, but I actually finally launched my own supplement brand. And that brand is called in before. So I n b4 and we've got two products there and I'm about to launch my launch my third, which is going to be a, a natural testosterone boosting supplement. So that's in the pipeline. Should be released in like a few months.

[A]

So, okay, so with that, that product. Well, what's. What are the first two products?

[B]

So the first two, the first one is a particular herb from Brazil called Catawaba. Now I'll just give a quick overview of this. So catawba in Brazil, if anyone's been to Brazil, they've listened to this podcast or they're listening right now, they'll know that this herb is Brazil's number one aphrodisiac. So they literally call it their favorite aphrodisiac. Um, but the reason why I was interested in Catawaba was because I saw some animal studies suggesting that it can act as a natural dopamine reuptake inhibitor. And I was like, it caught my attention. I'm like, shit, I think this is going to be like the next big herb. I think it's going to like, draw a lot of attention in its way. And so I looked at a lot of these different shaman websites, like, like a lot of these shaman forums, and they were saying things like, catawba puts him in a, in a happy mood and makes him feel motivated, makes him feel upbeat and, you know, helps with libido and that sort of stuff. And I was like, hang on a sec, I think this has got some potential. So we trademarked a particular type of catoba. It's called Catwa Pure. So that was the first product. The second one is.

[A]

Wait, actually, wait a minute, wait a minute. So does that work in women and men or is it just one in the men, for example, it works it

[B]

works for both, but it's predominantly used by men.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah. It doesn't, it doesn't increase testosterone, it doesn't work on that pathway, but it works on the, it just works on the, the central nervous system mostly.

[A]

Okay, and how did you source that? Like you knew. Okay. Catoba. I wanted to make sure I get that in the product. Like how do you source it and know that it's, it's a good source.

[B]

It took us nine months to find a legitimate supplier because there are a lot of fake Catawaba herbs out there. We sent it off to a company in America called Alchemist. So they're like a third party testing company and it took a long time to find a credible source. So all of our products are actually manufactured in America because most of my audience is American as well.

[A]

Okay. And then so let's say you got that product, then you tried it. Like, what if somebody's gonn take Catawba, your product? What, what, like, can they notice something immediately? Does it take a couple weeks? Like what, what do they take to expect with that?

[B]

It's kind of like a hybrid between maca powder and like yohimbine, sort of like a, somewhere in between those two. For some guys, they get an effect within like the first few doses. Like they'll get a slight like dopaminergic effect where they feel a bit more socially confident, a bit more like Mr. Chatterbox because it makes you want to just talk a lot. And it also, you know, ignites the libido and just, you know, the sexual domain, it has a pretty powerful effect in that regard. Mind you, this, this will only work well if your baseline, like nutrients and vitamins are dialed in. So like, let's say if you have low iron for low B6, like, it's not going to work as effectively. You have to make sure your baseline is optimized first.

[A]

Right. Okay, got it. All right. And then is it something you take every day or just when you need it?

[B]

So I usually recommend to guys to take it when they need it. So just on, on, on, you know, basically if they've got a weekend coming up where they have to be social, they don't want to drink alcohol. Another good example, you know, to reduce the inhibitions. That's where Catawba can really shine. Particularly combined with like, with taurine. So taking like 3 grams of taurine and, and 1200 milligrams of Catawba together, that makes guys feel pretty damn good going out.

[A]

Yeah. That's awesome. Okay. I like that. All right. And then, and then the second product. Yep.

[B]

So the second one is an ingredient? Well, it's actually two ingredients. It's called Tudka Prime. Now, Tuka. Have you heard of tutka before, Mike?

[A]

No.

[B]

So Tudka is really popular in the, in the bodybuilding community because, you know, these, these guys are taking gear and they're obviously using anabolic agents and they're, they're toxic, right? They're very, like, some of them can be very toxic to the liver. So this particular product, Tutka, has been studied to really powerfully protect the liver and regenerate liver damage and also from alcohol consumption as well. So anyone that has liver problems, they can benefit massively from tudka because it's actually a naturally occurring bile acid. So it actually helps with fat breakdown. It's also beneficial for those that are on a high fat diet. If they feel like they're blo. They're bloating a lot, and they can't digest fatty foods, well, then taking 500 milligrams of this tudka. Tudka prime, which is our product, can work really well. So we combined Tudka with an antioxidant called Mito prime, which is ergothioneine. And that second ingredient is actually, they're actually, if you look it up on PubMed, they're actually calling it a longevity vitamin because it has some really powerful anti aging properties, at least in animal studies. Wow.

[A]

Okay, I like that. I like that one. I'm a little educated on this stuff. I haven't heard of that one. But, you know, I've interviewed so many people and, and I can't remember everything that they tell me. You know, I'm not studying it on a daily basis. But now the testosterone enhancer.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

With that one. Why wouldn't someone just do. Is it for people that this body is already producing some testosterone? It's just low? Like what?

[B]

Exactly?

[A]

Yeah, I was gonna say cause what, the difference between somebody that just goes needs TRT versus someone that uses this or someone that uses enclomiphene.

[B]

Exactly. Perfect. I love this question. So for someone who works. I work closely with guys that are on trt. The ones that are not keen on TRT and the ones that are just like, either on enclomiphene as like their TRT alternative. I think TRT is life changing and I think it's one of the most effective ways to. It is the most effective way to quickly fix low testosterone. But this product that I've built is designed for those guys who do have pretty decent levels, like, let's say 300 to 500 nanograms per deciliter. They're like sitting in that range and they just want to crank it up another like 100 to 200 points. And they want to max it out naturally as high as possible, just through natural means. Because the product that I've formulated, there's no peptides. It's. It's a natural complex with mostly herbs, a few, A few minerals and things like that. But this product serves a purpose for those who are, yes, on enclomiphene. This will supercharge the effects of enclomiphene. It will preserve fertility, which is, you know, obviously a big drawback of trt. TRT doesn't kill fertility. Obviously you can take HCG and keep your fertility, like it's not an issue. But some guys want to be able to maintain production naturally. So I would say this is perfect for those guys who are on the verge of trt, but they want to try something naturally first.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Okay, So I like that. Well, so let me tell you about enclomophene. So I took it. I was at 500 something total and 100 free. And I don't know what the units of measurement are, but 500 and 100. Okay, free. And. Yeah, I took it for five weeks and it doubled both of those. Yeah, I was blown away. Like five weeks. That was it. Like. So I backed it off. Now I take it every other day just to just.

[B]

Was that 25, 25 milligrams or 50?

[A]

12. 25.

[B]

Oh, 12 and a half.

[A]

I think it's 25, because my son does. He does occasionally just does a half a tablet. It's like 12 and a half. Yeah, it was 25.

[B]

Nice. So five weeks, you gotta. Yeah, that, that doesn't surprise me. I mean, that's.

[A]

It's crazy.

[B]

It works. Yeah, it works really well.

[A]

Now, what's the, what's the drawback to enclomophene? Any drawbacks that you know of?

[B]

Well, there's some speculation that it might affect your vision, but that's really, really low percentage of users. I, I don't think it's. I don't think there are many drawbacks apart from. And also slight changes to. Some people say that it can lower IGF1 levels, but again, I've worked with guys that are on enclomiphene and we've tracked IGF1 levels and it's barely like lowered it, which is, you know, Not a big deal, but I think it's a really. If you combine like, let's say free for yourself. Let's do an example. When my product is ready, I'll send you a bottle to, to combine it with the enclomophene. But use the enclomophene twice a week, so just 12 and a half milligrams. So let's. And Thursday and then every other day use Peak Tea, which is my product. And I'm confident it will still maintain your levels like around 800 to a thousand nanograms per deciliter.

[A]

Awesome.

[B]

Which is, which is still amazing.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm open to that for sure. Yeah. And then the Catawba, I want to try that. Is there any way to get that now? Like, can I order it somewhere?

[B]

Yeah, sure. It's on. I can get off Amazon. We're on. You can check it out@inbefore subs.com so in b4sups.com but we'll. I'll send you a bottle after this. No problem.

[A]

Okay, thank you. Yeah, I don't mind supporting you either. But for, for those that list that are listening right now, it's in the letter B, the number four SUPs with two Ps. Sups.com in before supp.com check it out. All right, Lucas, so let's talk about. So, okay, supplements are up and running. What's the vision with this? Like, if you could have it your way, what's the supplement company look like?

[B]

Yeah, so I'm extremely inspired by a few big brands out there. I mean, one of them, you're probably Familia, a company called Thorn. They make some really great products.

[A]

We use some of those. Yeah.

[B]

Inspired by them. Like, I look at some other brands like Onnit as well. Like, I want to. I sort of want to. I want to have my own range because I've got so many formulations just sitting on my Excel spreadsheet from years ago that I just want to bring to market, and they're too good to go to waste. There's no point just leaving them on a spreadsheet when, like, I know they're going to make an impact. I, I've, I've tested them. I've tested them on my clients that I work with. I know ingredients that move the needle. I know ingredients that are risky. I know ingredients that have side effects. I know what dosages to, like being in the thick of it and knowing, like, how to formulate. I think that's a, that's definitely a skill because ChatGPT and AI, like, it will give you cookie cutter, like, basic recommendations. It doesn't really have that hyper advanced specialty in that area that I do, because it's all about practical applications. Like, it's not about what works in theory, it's about what actually works in real life.

[A]

Yeah. And everybody's different, Right? That's the thing that I think a common misconception is people are seeing things online. They see the different supplements, peptides, whatever, and then they just try everything, whatever. And it's not one size fits all right. So I think different protocols, unique protocols for each individual based on their markers and panels. I mean, that's the key. Which people think, what is the most dangerous substance out there? That's misunderstood, misrepresented. What's the one that when you see it, you just cringe.

[B]

Okay, well, I've been asked this question before, and I'm gonna bring up this particular herb, which, it gets a lot of backlash, but I would say it's actually ashwagandha. So I'm actually very well known online to talk about this and I've, you know, popularized it. It's got millions of views across multiple channels. But ashwagandha has a dark side, and the dark side is that it can actually interact with a particular serotonin receptor. It's the 5HT1. A serotonin receptor. And what it can do after long term dosages, even if you're using it at high dosages for long term, for a long period of time, it can actually massively lower cortisol levels, which can manifest in ways where individuals feel something called they're experiencing anhedonia, which is a blunting or numbing of the pleasure response. So they feel numb to everything. Their emotions become just numbed. Like, basically like what an SSRI can do. Like a serotonin reuptake inhibitor.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So cortisol.

[A]

Cortisol is not a bad thing. It's just too high of cortisol at long periods of time because it's bad. We need cortisol.

[B]

Exactly. Yeah. Spot on. Like, without cortisol, you won't have energy, you won't have any motivation at all. You can't get going in the morning. Like you're. You're apathetic. There's no drive at all.

[A]

So those that are taking it, like, we take it as, you know, as I think as a family, we take it. I don't know about high dose, but we take it. So it's good to break that up often. Maybe cycle it and not take it at all.

[B]

Well, the way I look at it, I mean I'm, I've. There are other ways to keep cortisol in a healthy range without using ashwagandha. So for example, taurine, three to five grams a day can actually help to keep cortisol levels in check. High dose magnesium, high dose glycine, 3 to 5 grams of glycine, which is a longevity amino acid. Both of those without the drawbacks, like without the risk of. Well, ashwagandha also can affect the thyroid. That's. It's actually documented to actually. It can exacerbate thyroid issues for some people, not everyone. And then it can also affect the liver as well. So.

[A]

So it's just. There's no. The risk for the reward is not. It's not worth it is what you're saying.

[B]

Not. Not in my opinion, no. Like to achieve. It depends. What's the ultimate goal in which most people are using ashwagandha? Usually it's the anti stress effect or the, you know, adaptogenic effect. But there are so many other ingredients that I'd rather use in instead of. Yeah, Ashwagandha. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

And then what's the one out there? Peptide supplement. What have you herb that gets a bad rap but is actually a belief, you know, you're a believer of.

[B]

I think. I wouldn't say berberine. Berberine came to my mind. It doesn't really get a bad rap. A lot of people say that berberine doesn't have an effect as strong as metformin. But my opinion is that the metabolite of berberine called dihydroberberine DHB is superior to regular berberine. So basically for anyone listening, berberine's an alkaloid. It's. You've probably heard about it. As an alternative, it is considered. I'm not. This is not medical advice. It is considered to be like a, an alternative to metformin for some people, but dihydroberine at only 100 milligrams, it won't mess up your gut because berberine can have a really strong antimicrobial effect. It can wipe out gut bacteria. If you use 100 milligrams of dihydroberine instead, you get the blood sugar lowering effect without the GI side effects. So you can use a much lower dosage, achieve the same outcome and use less, less dose, like less of a dose to get the same effect. So I think that's a pretty cool one.

[A]

And what is metformin? I'VE heard of it before, but what does it do?

[B]

So metformin is a really one of the most well studied type 2 diabetes medications.

[A]

So GLP1 considered?

[B]

No, it's like the original blood sugar lowering drugs on the market.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Which has also been studied to extend lifespan. Actually in humans. It has a lot of other benefits. But yeah, metformin was on the scene way before a lot of these. Semaglutide, Ozempic and things like that.

[A]

Okay, and then what are your thoughts? Finally, this is the last thing. What are your thoughts on retatrue Tide?

[B]

Yeah, so rotatrutide is extremely popular right now. We're seeing a lot of individuals who are not super obese, who are like pretty like they just want to drop a few percent body fat, seeing huge benefits. Like yes, it will help with appetite control, you know, food noise, insulin sensitivity and all that. But it also can do something to the dopamine system that not many people are talking about and that is that it can actually reduce dopaminergic signaling in the brain. The same pathway in which it's blocking your desire for food, that same pathway is, is similar to the desire to do things to get like to be motivated to get things done. So some people, a lot of my clients that have been experimenting with it have noticed a drop off in, in like motivation, mood and energy because it's. I know it's because it's affecting that dopamine axis. So if you're going to be using retatrutide, you want to stack it with some other dopamine based compounds like the catawaba.

[A]

Well, so, so could that also help with addiction?

[B]

Spot on. Yeah. So yeah. So it can reduce cravings for alcohol, you know, illicit drugs, things like that. Definitely.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, I can see that. Okay. So pay attention. Don't just go and do red. Make sure you pay attention to the dopamine now. Well, I got to add another thing here, nicotine. What are your thoughts on nicotine pouches? Zen pouches.

[B]

Yeah. So nicotine is possibly one of the most well studied nootropics. Like as in a. It will enhance cognitive function, function, it has benefits for memory. It is a well studied alkaloid substance. The way in which we use nicotine really matters. So I don't like vaping, I don't like smoking like nicotine. I, I personally think the patches are the most effective way to get nicotine in your system because it's a slow release. So you're getting a slow release trickling into your, into your bloodstream over a longer period of time, which means there's less crash, less addiction potential. And then you've got the other group that will say nicotine gums or, you know, the Zins or things like that. They can be used but super sparingly, like once or twice a week, in my opinion, because over time like that will build up the addiction profile's too strong. And then you can have a few other side effects, like, you know, vasoconstriction, you know, affecting other pathways downstream.

[A]

Gotcha. All right. I love this. Well, we've already mentioned in b4subs.com anywhere else you want to send them today, Lucas.

[B]

Yeah, appreciate it, Mark. So if they search boost your biology on YouTube, they can just check out my content. There's some great. I'm covering a lot of content there similar to what we've spoken about today. So appreciate that.

[A]

Love it, man. Hey, thanks for coming on with the conversation today. I really appreciate it, man.

[B]

Thanks, Mike. Thanks for having me, man. And yeah, look forward to chatting again. My pleasure.

[A]

Hang tight while I wrap this up, folks. That's this episode of the Woody made up show. It's your boy C Rock with Lucas sharing what he's made of. Make sure you keep coming back. Hit the subscribe follow button at the top of your favorite podcast platform. And until next time, be that one.