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- [00:00]
A
Welcome back to the what he made up show. It's your boy, C. Rock here. I'm with Ryan Hawk. He's the host of the Learning Leader show with Ryan Hawk. And you know, he talks to a lot of great leaders out there, whether it's sports or business, athletes, coaches, as I said, with sports authors and much more. And I have a feeling, Ryan, first of all, welcome to the show.
- [00:20]
B
Thanks for having me, man. It's cool to learn more about you and all the things that you've put together and the people that you are connecting. I love learning about that. So I appreciate it, man.
- [00:32]
A
No, my pleasure, man. Thanks for being here. And yeah, no, no, what I was going to say is I have a feeling that you've learned a lot from doing the interviews that you've done. What you've probably done. Hundred, I don't even know how many
- [00:41]
B
you've done, but just about 7, 700.
- [00:45]
A
You've had the opportunity to sit there and have an interview and have a conversation with high level achievers and leaders. Can't help but learn a lot and change your life. What's that experience been like for you?
- [00:57]
B
That's the most transformative thing that's happened in my life for the past 11 years. To have the opportunity to meet my heroes, to learn from them directly, to chase down my curiosity with great rigor is really, really fun. It's a really fulfilling way. I left corporate America at the end of 2017 to be able to do this full time and all of the things that go along with it. Writing books and the podcast and some of the speaking opportunities and leadership development stuff that my team does. I just had a few hours with them, my team, this morning working with one of our favorite clients. And yeah, it, I feel, honestly, I guess just a huge sense of gratitude that this is what I get to do for a living and my family gets to see this is what I do for a living. And that's really rewarding as well because I didn't, this wasn't like a job when I was coming out of college that this was actually even possible that you'd have a podcast that would then lead to these other opportunities to meet really interesting people and, and hopefully help them. And so yeah, I, I think it, I, I mostly feel like a sense of gratitude and the reward is that I just get to keep doing it. So I'm hopeful and fully intending to, to, to keep this thing rolling.
- [02:12]
A
Yeah. I have a friend that read a book a week for the last 20 years and I'm Always amazed by that. I'm like, man, and he's so intelligent and this and that. And he's like, said to me one time, he's like, dude, C rock, man.
- [02:23]
B
Listen.
- [02:23]
A
He's like, you've done a thousand plus podcasts and you've been a guest on over 1800 shows, but you, that's, that's no different than reading a book a week. All the people you've talked to, that information is, you know, you've absorbed. And I didn't look at it that way. I didn't have that perspective before. But when he told me that, I'm like, yeah, you know, that is powerful. So information and knowledge is one thing from podcasting. The second thing is the relationships that I've, you know, developed. And the network expansion that I've had from podcasting on both sides of the mic has been probably the most powerful. Would you agree?
- [02:55]
B
For sure? 100. The opportunity to meet, to meet and develop a relationship with people who are putting a positive dent in the world has been the coolest part, for sure.
- [03:07]
A
Yeah. Yeah. You know, and I don't know if you've had this issue, but like, I was having this network expansion and I was wondering to myself, like, how am I going to do something with all these people? Like, what, what I felt like, frustrated because I felt like I had to do something with everybody, you know, and I. The people that I was started to connect with were the people I'd only seen on television before.
- [03:25]
B
Right.
- [03:25]
A
And I'm like, I don't know what to do with all these people. Have you ran into that where you're just like, overwhelmed? Like, I, I feel like I got this amazing network. Your network is your net worth. Like, what am I supposed to do?
- [03:34]
B
Yeah, I mean, well, you see, like, the science talks about Dunbar's Law and Dunbar's number of 150. That's like the max we can have. So what. What I've actually found is, you know, I still have friends. One of my best friends, I met him when I was five years old. And I still have some of those friends from early in life. But I' noticed and I don't know if this is good or bad, that, that sometimes you outgrow people as you meet others who are on a trajectory that is like this and not everybody is like that. And so what. What I've, I've found is some of my friends have changed. The, the people that I'm, I'm, I'm trying to put myself in rooms with are, I think, again, They're. They're the ones leaving and putting a positive dent in the world, and they. They move at a different speed. Um, and. And I want to. I want to be around people like that. Um, that's why it was interesting before we started recording to talk. Talk with you about the stuff that you're doing. So, yeah, to. To me, it's like, it almost seems like a signal of growth if you are continually trying to put yourself in those rooms where you're the dumbest person in the room, because that's. That's how you grow. That's how you get better. It's uncomfortable, for sure. But to me, that. That's a. That's a feeling of growing. It's a feeling of improving. It's a feeling of making a difference. And, um, so, yeah, I. I intend to again, keep. Keep doing those things too.
- [04:56]
A
Yeah. Yeah, I love it, man. I love talking to other podcast hosts that have done, like, and stuck with it for a long time, you know. So. All right, how did this all get started for you? Like, you. You. You said you were in the corporate world for a while, so take us through that. What did you do? And. And then talk to us about the feeling that came upon you, that. That you needed to figure something else out, because I think I. I can relate to it.
- [05:15]
B
Yeah. So I played football in college, and then I played for a couple years afterwards, and then I had to get a real job once they told. Wanted. Wanted me to play on their team anymore. So I'm, you know, devastated and identity of, what in the world am I going to do? Luckily, a family friend named Rex Caswell hired me for a sales job at a company called LexisNexis here in Dayton, Ohio, where I live. And I actually feel. I'm so grateful for Rex. I had dinner with him a couple weeks ago. I say this to him every time, like, thank you for taking a chance on me because it was a very competitive environment. It's the. It's a place where I met my wife. It changed my life. I. I was able to channel some of that, like, football stuff into that world and do well. I got promoted to management. I got my. I went back to get my mba. It took me six years as I was finishing my MBA and I was promoted to a management role. I realized that I wasn't very good at it and thought, well, I should go back to school because my company reimburses me. But it wasn't that fun getting my mba. You know, you got to do. Take the exact Classes they tell you with these specific teachers at this time. And I was working full time. It was just a huge pain. So is there a better way to get my leadership PhD? Like, I want to get a leadership PhD because I'm struggling at this job. It's not. I was a quarterback in football, and I'll just be like, I'll be the quarterback of the business world. What? Yeah, some of that applies, but only maybe a little bit. And so I thought, well, I'm listening to these podcasts. I listen like Joe Rogan or Bill Simmons or my buddy Todd Henry, who's down in Cincinnati, who's had one for 20 years, and I listen to podcasts. I do interviews at work to hire people and to help other people hire people. Now that I'm in the leadership role, what if. What if I created my own form of a leadership PhD program and just made that my podcast? I called it Learning Leader because those are my favorite leaders, the ones who are always striving to improve, get better, always taking notes, that type of thing. And yeah, that was, what, 11 plus years ago now. No intention to leave corporate America. No dreams, no goals. I liked it. I enjoyed my team. I enjoyed my job. But, you know, as, you know, when you put stuff out there and, and, and it, it, it makes a difference in people's lives, they start asking you to do things like speak or work with their leadership teams or, or create mastermind groups, or all these types of things started happening. And so I started doing all of that on the side for a couple years, two and a half, three years, until I got to the point where I'd gotten promoted at work and I was a VP of sales. And it's a very demanding job. And my bosses at the time were not loving all of the attention I was getting. Taking PTO to go give speeches, doing all this stuff. And so I either needed to chill out on the podcast and all of the things that. That was starting for me, or I could leave that job and just go all in on that. And fortunately, with a very supportive wife who was also working full time at the time, I decided to leave and go full go and put everything I had into it. And so that was the end of 2017, going into 2018. And those first couple of years were very, very tough. As far as it was fun, it was uplifting, but, like, financially it was harder for us. But, you know, we've always tried to live below our means, and that set us up to where now we're in a far better situation. Both for what I get to do as, as financially. So it's, it's, yeah, super grateful. But I, I think a lot of it stems from, well, are, are you willing to kind of make that big bet? And now there was evidence that that bet was still, I think, a wise bet. I'm, I am a risk averse person, but we made the bet and unfortunately it's still, it's paying off. Hopefully it continues to.
- [09:02]
A
Yeah. Were you, were you scared?
- [09:03]
B
Oh, yeah. Wouldn't you? I mean, I was a VP of Sales. We are, we are responsible for $500 million within our company at a sister company of LexisNexis called Elsephere Clinical Solutions. I'm leading leaders, we're in healthcare. It's booming. We're doing really, really well. My team's overperforming a very aggressive goal. And so when that happens, you know, you have your big base salary, but then you also get options and then you get big bonuses when you overachieve and escalators. And so you get, you know, they overpay you for performance in the sales world. I mean, rightfully so. You're bringing in revenue for the company like you're the engine that makes it go, but it makes it really hard to walk away because you know you're going to take a hit financially, maybe forever. I don't know. You know, there's no guarantee you get that job back. There's no guarantee you recoup that. And so, yeah, it was definitely that. And I had even some, some friends tell me, like, what do you like? Why would you do this? Like you, you've kind of got it made. Just do it on the side, maybe chill out a little bit. Don't, don't be as loud about it or don't do it as much. And I was like, well, this is the thing I'd love to do. It's the coolest thing ever to get to have this podcast and have it kind of grow and the opportunities it's creating for me, I want to do more of it, not less of it. And so that's, that's why we made the choice.
- [10:26]
A
Isn't it funny how the people around you can hold you back?
- [10:28]
B
Some, some of them can, some of them can't see, and some of them are the ones that can, you know, that's why it's important. Those people, I think, closest to you, as you probably know this, the people closest to you are so vital because the ones who are very, very close to me, they're the ones who said yeah, dude, let's go. I mean, especially my wife Miranda, starting. She's the one who still is that way to this day. My parents were supportive. I think my mom was nervous, but she believes in me, but also thought, oh, this is a good job. Why don't you just stay in the job? You know? And so. Yeah, yeah, but, But I think the people who are closest to me were very supportive, but there were some in the periphery that were thinking, this is. You're, like, you're an id. But that's okay. I mean, I understand. Maybe they're. They're either looking out for me or they think they're looking out for me, or I know some people are a little scared, and so they kind of project that fear onto you, and I get that, I guess.
- [11:19]
A
Yeah. Well, I was in the mortgage real estate business for 20 years and built a large organization from Philadelphia to Miami, and I left.
- [11:27]
B
When did you leave?
- [11:28]
A
Because I just hated it. I think about two and a half years.
- [11:32]
B
Oh, wow. Okay. So it's still fresh. How, how has it been?
- [11:35]
A
Yeah, I, I, I, I had. Well, first of all, I hated it.
- [11:40]
B
I felt. So you didn't like it, but you built something up that was great, but you didn't like it.
- [11:44]
A
Okay, yeah, I had the butt, but the money was good. And I, I didn't know any, Like, I was like, what else can I do to make this kind of money and live the lifestyle? Yeah. And I, I just, I just couldn't do it anymore. I hit 40. I felt trapped. So I was like, you know what? I gotta figure something out. So I just got around to some great mentors, and I started podcasting and guesting a lot. Seven to ten shows a week I was doing as a guest, talking about performance, leadership, entrepreneurship, scaling businesses and building brands.
- [12:10]
B
Based on your mortgage. Based on growing that mortgage business. Wow.
- [12:16]
A
Yep. And, and from where I came from, you know, I was in sales since 1998. So, like, all the stuff that I've been through, you know, I just told stories. I was a good storyteller. Well, it got to the point where I was just like, I got to figure something else else out, man. Like, this is not. I can't live the rest of my life like this. And I was. Yeah, I was scared. 2.
- [12:32]
B
What was the first year like for you when you, when you left, did you had you already built up on the side a little bit so that it wasn't as scary or. No. Were you, like, starting from scratch?
- [12:40]
A
Well, we had this agency kicking off and starting, but it was nowhere near enough to survive on. So I, I brought the, I brought my ops manager now was my assess assistant at the mortgage company and when I was leaving, she was going to leave too. And I had, I wanted to make sure she still made the same amount of money and it had potential to grow. So I just paid her out of my own pocket. And so there was a lot of pressure, man, but I did it and I built me to who I am today. Like you gotta go through these kind of things, right? To build into something bigger and better. That's cool. So yeah, I mean we had to liquidate some assets and, and do the thing, whatever we had to do to get it done. But now like we're back and better than ever from financial standpoint and, and helping so many people in the impact and the fulfillment is there. So I know that for you. Like do you notice like your fulfillment level?
- [13:26]
B
Yeah, it's through the roof. I mean, yeah, it's funny, I was recording last week and we were talking about like how do you celebrate? And I found that a commonality among a lot of the people who sustain excellence is that they, they actually struggle to celebrate. But we are getting into what we actually celebrate and it's that email from the guy who's having, who lives on a farm in Iowa and has dinner at 5:30 with his wife and three kids. And the learning leader show is the topic of conversation on Monday nights. That to me is winning like that, that's what I celebrate are those moments when you can, can impact people over the course of years because some like you're chasing down what you're curious to, to learn about and to grow and to get better and they are benefiting from that. Like you're changing family's lives. I think that's the ultimate juice. I mean that, that's really what makes me feel great fulfillment. That's, that's. Yeah, that's success. And, and so I think you, you keep doing that and it's like, it's weird. I mean again, I know you probably feel the same thing. The. Everything seems to find a way to work itself out if you do enough of that. Right. If you have enough of those stories, enough of those people. It just seems to find a way to work itself out if you're adding value to the world. And it's even better if you can add value to the world when you're doing something that you deeply love and are really, really obsessed and passionate into the thing. I think that's almost necessary to get really really good at it because you need to spend a lot of time doing it. You need to think about it all the time. You need like, ninja kick out of bed in the morning before your alarm goes off because you're so jacked up to do it. It's hard to do that if you're running a mortgage company that you don't really like or you're in a sales job that is good, but not like, wow, I can't wait to go on that appointment Monday at 8. Like, you know what I mean? I just think it's. I think you can get good at things if you need to, to earn money. I don't think you can get great at those things to absolutely crush it and to, to live a really fulfilling life. Unless you do have like a deep, deep obsession for the thing.
- [15:41]
A
Yeah, for sure. What, what position you said quarterback. And where did you play?
- [15:45]
B
Where.
- [15:45]
A
What school?
- [15:46]
B
So I started at Miami University here in Ohio in the Mid American Conference. So the little bit of backstory there out of high school, Centerville High School here, which is a tradition rich school. We moved here when Kirk Herb street was the quarterback at Centerville. He played for a legendary coach, Bob Greg. My dad had these kind of visions of me and my, my, my younger brother playing for Bob Greg May. Those steps of what Kirk Herb street did when he was here. He was a national player of the year his senior year in high school at Centerville, went to Miami. I'm in the same recruiting class as Ben Roethlisberger, who's from Finley, Ohio, up north. And Ben and I competed for that job. He beat me out after two years. I then transferred to Ohio University, also in the Mid American Conference, where then you, in those days, you had to sit out a year where you can practice and play, scout team and do all that stuff, but you come play in the games. And then played my final two seasons and then played in the Arena Football League for two years after with a brief stint in the Canadian Football League. And then that's when I had to give it up. And I had like workouts with the Titans and the jets and all these teams, but I never, I never officially made. Made a team. So it was time to go get a job. And that's. That's what I did.
- [17:00]
A
Yeah. Yeah. And then you mentioned about this. This is something that I noticed. The darkest times of people's lives is when they attach their identity to what they do versus who they are, what their mission is and what their values are, who they really are. They tie it to the vehicle. And if you can pro. Be proactive about not attaching your identity to what you do, you're going to win in life because when that career ends, you have an exit in a company, you're maybe in the military, and you leave that or whatever if that. If you can void that part right after you finish that thing that you attach your identity to, if you can avoid that, that's the darkest times of people's lives. And so you. You've experienced that probably in not just the football, but also in the corporate world. Take us through that with your thoughts.
- [17:48]
B
Well, I mean, it was. It was. It was beyond devastation. Football. I remember my senior day, so my college career was very up and down and, you know, lost out the job. I never lost any job since I was 5 years old as the shortstop and pitcher on the baseball team, the point guard on the basketball team, the quarterback and football team. Never. I was always. Never had to even like, hardly deal with the competition. It was just show up and play. And certainly there's a lot of hard work and things like that. And I played all four years in high school on our varsity team, which. Which hadn't been done before. And so I thought, well, this is. Yeah, this is. I'll go to college. And this, yeah, this Ben guy is a big recruit and he's tall and strong arm and athletic, whatever, but I'll beat him out. And even though I had, like, every other coach recruited me, calling me before I went, stepped foot on campus at Miami and said, you shouldn't go, dude. That guy's a generational talent. He's gonna beat you out. Like, oh, you guys are wrong. I'll show you. Well, they were all right. So that was a big moment where, like, it really hurt to lose that job and then had to leave all my friends because I loved. I love the school, I love my teammates, but I also, I love the thought of being a starting quarterback more. So then my senior year, my fifth year in college at Ohio University, my final games against University of Akron, it's senior day, both my parents are there, which was rare because my parents would have to split up on Saturdays because my brother and I both played college football at the same time. And so they're both there, and I'm just, like, bawling uncontrollably. I can't stop. This is right before the game starting. Going out for the first drive. I still have tears on my face for the first drive of the game. Halftime after the game was terrible. And it was in my Parents like, what's wrong?
- [19:23]
A
What's wrong?
- [19:23]
B
And I just. It kind of, like, hits you. Well, I've done this since I was 5, and now I'm not going to do it anymore. I didn't think I was going to do it anymore. I ended up playing a couple more years, but it felt like, who am I?
- [19:35]
A
Is the question, like, who am I? Like, who am I? It becomes the question, yeah, who am I now?
- [19:40]
B
Took a long time, dude. Like a couple years, I would say, to really feel okay about that. And it's also hard when you're, what, 22, 23? You're already kind of an idiot, or at least I was kind of an idiot. And you're trying to deal with this and you don't. You can't even grasp why you're feeling this way. You don't even fully. I mean, I get, oh, I'm going to miss playing this thing I've played my whole life. And it's. Being the quarterback is definitely my thing, and it's me, and it's what I. It's just what I think that I am. And so really, I think what. What's scary and what was sad for me and made me upset was the uncertainty of, I don't know what I'm going to do. I don't know who I even am. I don't know. So. And there wasn't, like, a clear answer. There wasn't a way to answer that question in that. In those moments from there. And so, yeah, I think you say it's very important not to get your identity tied up in that. And when you're 23, that's very, very hard. So anytime I go talk with college athletes quite a bit whenever I can, and I get it when they're that way, I just say, like, hey, just feel free to give me a call. We can talk through things as you're finishing up. There's any way I could help you once you're done, if you're not going to keep playing? Because I. I know I get them putting their entire heart and soul into that sport, and I think that's good. That gives you a chance to be good at the thing. But then I try to have conversations about who they are as a person and how we could help them move from one thing to the next, maybe create a little less uncertainty, because that's. That's scary, especially when you're young and. But it's really tough. And I think a lot of people deal with this in a wide variety of things, but for me, that's, that was a big inflection point. Pivotal moment was when I went from being that thing to no longer being that anymore.
- [21:31]
A
Yeah. And there's a lot of development that happened when you were competing with Ben and then it not going the way you wanted it to. What was going through your mind at the time? Did you feel like you were. You, you should be beating him out or like, you know how you get sometimes when you're an athlete and the coach picks another player and you're like, what do you mean? I got, I had a better practice, I had better whatever. Like. Or was it not like that? And how did you guys interact?
- [21:52]
B
So if I felt like. So the. It's, it's funny, the first day we met, it was in the summer. Our quarterback coach, Greg seaman. There was three quarterback recruits that year. Mr. Football in Indiana, who's also six five and 240 pounds, rocket arm Jeremy Thompson. And then there's Ben and then there's me. So it wasn't just. It was like two guys I got to beat out the first day. The, the three quarterbacks and the quarterback coach. We go play golf. Jeremy and coaches are in the same cart and Ben and I are in same cart and we're gonna play nine holes. And I, I'm like, do you play golf or whatever? And he goes, no, not really. I don't really play any golf. I go, okay. And I could feel though it was, it was like an insanely competitive environment from the very like from that moment moving forward. And he shot like 37 on nine holes. So like one over par. He beat all of us. The coach who, the coach was a good golfer and he beat Jerry, he crushed Jeremy and I, and I went back and hit one of his, his high school receivers is also on our team. As a freshman I was like, hey, do you guys ever play golf? He's like, oh yeah, we play every day. And so I was like, oh, it's going to be like that. And then we get to the practice field and it was evident that he was the most talented player on the entire team. As a true freshman that first year, 6 5, really in shape, amazing arm, could, could, could move. You've seen him play. So yeah, it was an uphill battle. But I, I know when you're a 19 year old kid, you're you, you can conquer the world. And sometimes being naive and thinking you can beat everybody out and that you can make every shot, like I can make that throw, you know, like thinking that I was my IM Tell is I'm just gonna outwork them. I work them on the practice field, in the weight room, in the film room, like in the classroom, everywhere, with, with all the people and learning names and being a leader in the huddle. I'm just gonna. I'm. I'm gonna. All the intangibles. I'm gonna win. And. And I tried to do that, and I think I did in a lot of the areas. But ultimately, our sophomore year, we're playing and we play against Michigan, our first game, and he was the best player on the field. We rotated at that time, back and forth, and we played Iowa Week 2, we rotated. He was also the best player on the field that game. And so after that game, that's when Coach Hepner, the late, great Terry Hepner, he. He brought us into his office and is like, okay, I'm not going to rotate you guys anymore. We. We were both getting beat up because two big, tough, physical teams in the Big Ten, Michigan and Iowa, kind of beat us both up. He's like, Ben, you're going to be the starter. Ryan, you're going to be the backup. You're not going to play anymore unless he gets hurt. Maybe we'll throw some gadget plays where you play receiver and double passes and stuff like that, but for the most part, you're not going to play. So, yeah, that's when at the end of the season, I had. I had really two options. Just be okay to be the backup or move positions. And I said, I'll choose option C. I want to go. I want to be a starting quarterback. And that's. That's not going to be here. And so there's a whole story in that. But, yeah, it was. It was devastating. I still, I mean, I still think it's probably the. The most lucky moment of my life, other than meeting my wife at work, I would say, because as a 19 year old who's very cocky and arrogant, full himself and thinks he's the man to get beat down and to get beat out for the job, to have the coach look you in the eye and say, this guy gives us a better chance to win than you do, I think it's a great thing to have, to. Have to happen to you because you get humbled real quick. And I think there are two types of people in the world, those who are humble and those who are about to be humbled. And I got humbled. And I think we probably all need that from time to time. And that is something I never stopped thinking about is what can I do to add value to people's lives? Because in that moment, the other guy added more value than I did. And that's a really bad feeling. So I want to try to never let that happen again.
- [25:29]
A
Yeah. Did you guys stay connected after that?
- [25:31]
B
We did for a bit. We did for a bit. I haven't talked to him a few years, but we did. I've seen him like out in Tahoe when he went out, used to go out there. I go out there with my brother. I've seen him in other places. But.
- [25:42]
A
But you guys were cool. You guys were cool after that decision was made. Like you guys.
- [25:46]
B
I mean it. You know how quarterback. I don't know. You know, you know, football quarterbacks, like, there's only one guy that gets to play. So were we cool? I would say as cool as you can be. I mean, we room together on the road for away games for two years. You know, you spend a lot of time together in the quarterback room. You're on, you're. You're taking reps, you know, you're fight. Like we, we would flip coins for who would get to go first every day in practice, like, weird stuff. So it was just the most stressful environment of my life. Because you, like if you compete at literally every single. It was kind of like that at home with my brother, but not really because it was more fun and playing ping pong and basketball, whereas you're literally competing of who gets to go first in, in taking a rep of individual. It's like, it doesn't matter. But.
- [26:33]
A
Right, right.
- [26:33]
B
We both. No, no, no, we're gonna, we're gonna flip coins. We're. We're. We're not just gonna. I'm not letting the other guy go. Only if I, you know. And so some days I'd win the coin toss and some days he would. And yeah, when he would win the coin toss, I'd be pissed and I would, God, man, I want to win. I want to go first, you know? Like, so if you're competing at everything every second of every day, after a while, like, it just really, really wears on you. And it's hard to have a best friend's relationship with a person like that when you're just constantly competing. So we were okay, but. But no, not amazing friends or anything because we both wanted to kill each other, you know, so it's.
- [27:08]
A
Yeah, it's weird what I could tell you. I can tell you this. And I played college football to Division 3. I was a linebacker, but it takes A developed human being to be able to be cool and loving and unconditionally supportive of somebody in that environment. You know, like, I think to the degree that we're developed, we can get along with it, but for, like, the lower that we are or more work that we have to do on ourselves, it's harder.
- [27:36]
B
Yes.
- [27:36]
A
And at 19, 20 years old, whatever it was, I mean, we're not there yet.
- [27:39]
B
100 agree. You know, it's.
- [27:41]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [27:42]
B
And quarterbacking is a weird. It's. The world is not zero sum. It's. It's. The world is full of abundance. Meaning I, like, I have a better chance of winning if you win in the world. Because we know each other, we're connected. And. And so if you win, the better. The more you win and the better things go for you, the better the chances are for me. Like, there's science to back all of this stuff up, but the quarterbacking world is the one of the one places that is. That is completely zero sum. There's only one guy that gets to play. And so if you win, that means I lose. I don't get to play. And the world isn't like that. So you have to almost grow out of the fact that that's not how the world works. The world is actually the opposite of that once you leave that world of quarterbacking. So it took me a bit to do that when early in my career, I still kind of viewed it as zero sum. Like, I was secretive with how I was doing in my sales job. I didn't want to share all my secrets. I wanted to, like, get after it and kill it. And I was super competitive. I wanted to. I wanted to crush everybody else. And I remember reading Give and Take by Adam Grant about how givers can really win in the world and that the world is not zero sum. And I thought, oh, it kind of opened my eyes to, yeah, what am I doing? I'm still acting like I'm competing with one person. Only one of us can win. That's not how the world works. In fact, the more the people around me win, the better chances that I'm going to do even better. And so it just took a while for me, I would say that's the main thing. It took a while for me to grow up and to learn. Learn and to evolve to understanding that it's actually better for me when everyone else does better.
- [29:18]
A
Yeah, I've been there. So I. Can I relate? Sure. I. I used to hate my competitors in the mortgage business. Like, I don't want to be around them. And if they were. If they were doing better than me, they were cheating. There was something that they were doing wrong. It was something I did, you know, but we were just immature.
- [29:34]
B
Sure.
- [29:35]
A
All right, so finally here as we wrap up, what's the vision from here like? What do you see happening with your brand? What are you going towards? What would have to happen to really light you up? That.
- [29:42]
B
One of the coolest things I've gotten to do over the past couple of is is bring on. I have four coaches who work on my team now. They're all former or current sports coaches. The hall of Famer Sherry Cole was Oklahoma University of Oklahoma's women's basketball coach, 25 years in the hall of Fame. She it's. I'm so grateful that she chooses to work with us. Brook Cops, state champion high school basketball coach Garen Stokes, state champion high school football coach Eli Leiker, who is Brooks assistant coach at Centerville High School. So they. They've all left their jobs to come work with me, and I take that responsibility very seriously. It's also some of the richest, most rewarding work, not only when we work with our clients doing all the leadership stuff we do, but all of the preparation meetings. I learned so much. Just kind of figuring out, okay, let's get. We're getting our curriculum together. We're practicing for the next session that we have, coming up with a group of leaders we're kind of arguing with, well, what should be in here, what shouldn't? What's the proper sequencing, what's the ordering? And so not only do we get to work with these really fun, cool clients who are great people, who are. Who are doing big things in the world, but I'm working with the coaches who I all look up to, who help me every single day that have left their jobs, and so their families are dependent upon what we're doing. And so all those prep meetings, all the things that we think about doing. So that's the future for me, is I'll continue doing the podcast and writing books and speaking and doing that stuff. But working on a team with teammates who make me a lot better is super rewarding. And. And is really the. The thing that I think about all the time and what I look forward to every day.
- [31:21]
A
I love it, man. I'm so happy for you. I'm rooting for you. I can't wait to see what happens with that. Thank you. Where can people go deeper with you?
- [31:27]
B
LearningLeader.com is my home base, so LearningLeader.com my podcast is called the LearningLeader show, but it's all there. I'm, I, it's my favorite thing to do is to do what we're doing right now. Have a deep, long form conversation with the person who's putting a positive dent in the world. And so to me, super grateful I get to do it. And I'll keep working at trying to get better at it. And yeah, learningleader.com's where where it all happens for me.
- [31:51]
A
Thanks for your time today.
- [31:53]
B
I appreciate it. So cool.
- [31:54]
A
All right, hang tight while I wrap this up, folks. That's this episode of the what do you made up show. It's your boy C. Rock here listening to Ryan Hawk share what he's made of. Go. Make sure you hit the subscribe Follow button at the top of your favorite podcast platform and keep coming back until next time. Beat that one.