Can Bitcoin Save The West? | American HODL & Peter McCormack

Summary

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Podcast Summary: What Bitcoin Did

Episode: Can Bitcoin Save The West?
Guests: American HODL (Pete), Peter McCormack, Danny Knowles
Date: April 29, 2026
Theme: Examining whether Bitcoin can be a solution to the West's decline, exploring politics, culture, freedom, and technology with a focus on Britain and America.

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Main Episode Overview

In this candid roundtable, hosts Danny Knowles and Peter McCormack are joined by "American HODL" (Pete) for a sweeping and frequently provocative discussion about the state of the West, the collapse of trust in institutions, the cultural and political rifts in Britain and America, and whether Bitcoin offers a genuine way out. The tone is colloquial, combative, and reflective — blending black-pilled realism with Bitcoin-fueled optimism and practical perspectives on societal change, technology, and the cycles of history.

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Key Topics & Discussion Points

1. The West in Decline — Systemic Crisis

• Collapse of Trust and Civil Society

  • The hosts discuss how UK society has shifted from a high-trust, courteous culture to a more cynical, self-serving one.
  • “We've gone from a high-trust, civil, respectful society to a low-trust grift. Take what you want.” — Pete [39:01]
  • Loss of community hubs (the pub, town center), rise of crime, and breakdown of traditional norms.

• Political Polarization and Failure of Parties

  • Both mainstream left and right are seen as incapable: "They've tried both parties. Nothing works like what is the solution?" — Danny [00:12]
  • Describes current elections as existential, with no viable centrist ground remaining.

• Media and State Complacency

  • Commentary on how British propaganda is subtle, lulling people into complacency instead of outrage.
  • "Your propaganda is like a warm cup of tea... I found myself getting lulled into complacency." — Peter McCormack [13:59]

2. Freedom, Authoritarianism, and Democracy

• The Case for Freedom and Its Challenges

  • Pete argues freedom is the only thing that could unite left and right, but acknowledges selling freedom is difficult in practice.
  • "Freedom is what brings the left and the right together because it reduces the size of the state and the influence...but you cannot sell freedom to enough people." — Pete [00:16]; [15:19]; [18:41]

• Limitations of Democracy

  • Democracy is discussed as inherently cyclical and self-destructive when fiscal responsibility is abandoned.
  • "Every democracy collapses under loose fiscal policy... democracies tend to last about 200 years on average." — Peter McCormack [26:28]
  • Various tweaks to democracy are proposed (voting age, net contributors only), but all concede these are authoritarian in nature, undermining perfect freedom.

• Role of Authority and Benevolent Dictators

  • Debate over whether maximal freedom is possible without some form of authoritarianism.
  • “The absolute best system of governance is to actually have a benevolent dictator. That's the absolute best system of governance.” — Peter McCormack [23:53]
  • On El Salvador: recognition that dramatic positive change sometimes arrives with authoritarian overreach.

3. Bitcoin as Opt-Out and Hope

• Bitcoin as Parallel Track to State Decline

  • Bitcoin is cast as a practical form of individual sovereignty and a possible means to ‘exit’ failing state structures.
  • "The only way to really make change for yourself is to go all in on bitcoin." — Danny [75:47]
  • Education and community orange-pilling are advocated: "You can opt out as an individual on bitcoin very easily...but we're a long way from a nation realizing that is the answer." — Pete [76:30]

• Bitcoin and Cultural Attitudes

  • Bitcoiners are contrasted with the mainstream for their optimism and entrepreneurial mindset, especially as AI and tech disrupt jobs.
  • "If you combine bitcoin and AI, you’re in the best place to take advantage of the new world being built." — Peter McCormack [70:01]

• Limits of Political Bitcoin

  • Skepticism toward changing things from within: “Trying to fight the system from the inside…the way you're doing is awesome, but I don't think it's going to work.” — Danny [75:46]

4. The AI Wave — Disruption and Opportunity

• AI as Both Threat and Tool

  • The group details how AI will disrupt traditional jobs but open vast new opportunities, especially for the young and tech-savvy.
  • "It's not going to slow down." — Danny [60:40]
  • “The realization was that...software companies are fucked, you can build custom software for yourself.” — Pete [67:07]
  • Those most at risk are established workers avoiding new tech.

• Bitcoiners Ahead of the Curve

  • AI is already being combined with Bitcoin, e.g., bots that manage wallets or transact on Lightning.
  • “Most AI systems do lean bitcoin maxi because they scrape Twitter...it's our most effective orange billing mechanism.” — Peter McCormack [71:41]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Political War & Cynicism

  • “You can't convince them. You have to defeat them. So everything is war.” — Pete [00:36]
  • "It’s all black pilled and, like, so this kind of gets back to the Cheat Code thing..." (on doomer content and the search for hope) — Danny [04:28]
  • "Everything is war. I am at a war with my belly. I am at a war with YouTube algorithm...We're at war as nation states and we're at war. Everything is war." — Pete [03:33]

• On Britain’s Decline

  • “England is over and everyone's so poor there, too...people are poorer than they are in Alabama.” — Peter McCormack [44:19]
  • "We're destroying the middle class and we're creating a dependency class." — Pete [46:34]
  • “Your problem is you guys are all vassal states to America and you're all on the verge of collapse...” — Peter McCormack [50:57]

• On Opting Out & Individual Action

  • "You can just opt out of this entire system with bitcoin." — Danny [75:30]
  • "I think Bitcoin education is still so important...maybe you'll save some of them along the way." — Danny [77:20]

• On the Future of Western Society

  • “Collapse is kind of inevitable.” — Pete [78:11]
  • “It would be worth dying to prove this point. I do want freedom, and freedom is worth dying for.” — Peter McCormack [84:15]

• On Leadership, Risk, and Sacrifice

  • "In order to hold the line, you have to be willing to let somebody put a bullet in your head." — Peter McCormack [81:16] & Opening, [00:00]
  • "Risk equals reward, right? So are you willing to risk something? Are you willing to put something up in order to gain something?" — Peter McCormack [84:50]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00–04:28: Blackpilled realism; the war metaphor; frustrated politics
• 06:30–08:00: Bitcoin as hope vs doomerism; shift in podcast tone and audience
• 12:36–13:49: UK politics, Rupert Lowe as a figure; policy “extremism”; existential framing
• 13:57–16:00: British media as pacification; propaganda as comfort
• 18:01–20:09: Can enough people adopt Bitcoin/freedom before decline; cold civil war analogy
• 23:22–24:37: Authoritarianism, benevolent dictators, El Salvador, limits of freedom
• 26:28–29:01: Flaws of democracy, cycles, anti-freedom via voting
• 32:19–41:09: Breakdown of British culture, loss of community, migration
• 46:51–47:04: Growing underclass in the UK, destruction of the middle class
• 58:21–68:23: AI’s impact on economy, jobs, and political responses
• 70:08–71:32: Bitcoiners' proactive adoption of tech; contrast to mainstream
• 75:30–77:32: Bitcoin as the individual opt-out; community education
• 81:16–84:15: Sacrifice, running for office, the necessity of personal risk and backbone
• 84:50–end: Final reflections on leadership, courage, and the founding spirit of the West

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Concluding Vibes: Realism, Opportunity & the Only Exit

The episode ultimately presses a hard question: can the woes of the West — declining culture, failing institutions, withering democracy, and creeping authoritarianism — be solved at the ballot box, or is opting out the only real answer? While Pete is gloomily realistic about the odds of political revival, both he and his guests view Bitcoin and proactive adaptation to technology as the viable, if individualistic, way forward. The spirit is both rebel and builder: fight not by reforming the system directly, but by preparing for the new realities and educating others along the way.

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Recommended Action for Listeners:

• Don’t wait for political saviors.
• Educate yourself and others about Bitcoin.
• Get hands-on with AI and build your own tools.
• Strengthen local and digital communities.
• Retain a backbone: “Risk equals reward.”

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End of Summary

Transcript

[Peter McCormack]

There's a reality here that you guys are all asleep to. In order to hold the line, you have to be willing to let somebody put a bullet in your head. I am looking at the chessboard and saying we are the only alternative path.

[Danny]

They've tried both parties. Nothing works like what is the solution?

[Pete]

We are heading to dark places. Whether it is sectarian violence, whether it's actual civil war. The answer is freedom. Freedom is what brings the left and the right together because it reduces the size of the state and the influence. It reduces the money printing. And within that you have bitcoin, which is a solution.

[Danny]

What I'm not sure about is whether you can get there without some form of authoritarianism.

[Pete]

This is reality. Like the veil's been lifted. Now the anti freedom is allowing someone to vote away your money. They're closing the doors. You need to be acquiring assets for when everything changes. You can't convince them. You have to defeat them. So everything is war.

[Danny]

I don't think any government party wants to give total freedom to its people.

[Pete]

No, they don't. The people have to take the freedom.

[Peter McCormack]

How did the proposal for the stadium go? How was it received? Well, I was kind of there when that was all.

[Pete]

Breaking with some and shit with others, as always is.

[Peter McCormack]

But I mean, you think it's going to go through? Is the council pissed at you still?

[Pete]

We'll get it through. It's whether we can raise the council. Yeah, that's the challenge.

[Peter McCormack]

The council's always pissed, but fuck them,

[Danny]

because Pete's at war. Pete is at war.

[Pete]

Always a war.

[Danny]

Why is it always a war? You just put a tweet out that Liz Truss responded to. Don't do this. Have we started? That Liz Truss responded to the minute.

[Peter McCormack]

You have to assume the minute you sit down, it's going.

[Danny]

Pete knows this.

[Pete]

He's just trying to be the dick.

[Danny]

It's nice to be reunited.

[Peter McCormack]

It is. It feels good.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

The Old Crow Boys.

[Pete]

The band is back together.

[Danny]

Band is back together.

[Pete]

Yeah.

[Danny]

Your tweet. Yes, Everything is war.

[Pete]

No, I didn't say everything is war. My tweet was like coming to this realization that my Twitter feed is literally full of how society's divided at the moment. So half the people are socialists, communists slash Marxists who are talking about having policies such as the high. The highest paid person in a company can be only paid 10 times more than the lowest paid and that we need to tax billionaires and subsidize energy, all this socialist nonsense. And then the other half is kind of free market. Right wingers. And so this divide exists.

[Danny]

Is this a Twitter divide or is this a.

[Pete]

No, I think this is. I think Twitter is always a lens to reality. I think it always is. It's the representation of what's going to happen at the ballot box. It's like, I think we're heading towards an inflection point in the UK and perhaps in other places such as Canada and Australia where it's like, which way western man? And it's a decision between free market fascism and communism.

[Danny]

I don't think people know that that's how it's being framed.

[Pete]

Well, I'm being slightly facetious, but so I said I've given up trying to discuss this and debate with socialists because it doesn't matter what economic arguments you provide. You can show them the entire history of socialism killing tens of millions of people and you can show them economic facts. They won't listen. They are ideologically convinced that we need to live in a socialist environment, as I am ideologically convinced we need free market economics. And so if you can't win the argument, what's the point? Liz Truss replied and said, well, this is the point with communists, you can't convince them, you have to defeat them. And so I was thinking about that in the lift and I realized the only answer is to this is we just have to go and kill them all.

[Peter McCormack]

Fuck. And now you have become the communist. No, no, this is the problem.

[Pete]

So it's like, then I'm thinking, well, it's like the Art of war. How do you win this war? Well, if you have, if you think it's a political war to win, you have 40% of the people don't turn out and vote. So you have to mobilize the non voters. You have to convince whatever is in the middle ground that conservative economics is what you want and you have to kill all the lefties. Stop. I'm joking. But the point is, I was like, okay, so everything is war and everything is war. As you live, you're in a war with your. I'm at a war with my belly. I literally live. I'm at a war with my belly. I am at a war with YouTube algorithm to have my show be relevant. We're at war with our family sometimes, I mean, I'm a good guy, I look after my town, I'm at war with my community. And we're at war as nation states and we're at war. Everything is war.

[Danny]

But this is so black pilled and like, so this kind of gets back to the Cheat Code thing. Me and Hodl were sat watching your opening thing at Cheat Code, which is where you were basically saying, what the fuck is the point of your game?

[Peter McCormack]

You were like, we're all fucked.

[Pete]

It's all right. We're all gonna die.

[Danny]

And Hodl turns to me and went, what is this shit? And he was like, okay. He was closing out the day with an interview with you. And he was like, okay, I'm not doing an interview now. I'm doing an intervention. Like, you're always a little more optimistic than Pete on this stuff. Like, what's the white pill version of

[Pete]

what's happening if you live in America? Goddammit.

[Peter McCormack]

I mean, listen, I could do the Rah Rah Pro America. We got liberty and freedom over here. Y' all know nothing about that. Okay, No, I got me a big old truck. But the truth is, like, the world wants. Pete's right in that the world wants to go to war. It's just that I have always an optimistic disposition on everything because you, you know, there are always opportunities. It's not that. And I don't mean this as like in a selfish, like, you can profit off, you can be a war profiteer kind of way. I just mean it as like, these cycles exist in humanity, you know? Yeah, everything is war. I mean, that's a, like, astute point. And like, you know, violence is the supreme authority. And humans, you know, these systems as they fall apart, people want to go to violence against each other. But I think that, you know, one thing I want to ask you about this. I've noticed in, you know, your. You've been doing these interviews with, like, Simon Dixon and these guys and the new show, by the way, super popular. Like, you're doing great, you're having a lot of success. But I've noticed that the content you do now that gets the most clicks is we're all fucked. And I'm wondering if it's seeping into your consciousness in the way where you're like, yeah, we are all fucked. And like, fuck it. Like, it just is what it is. Whereas in bitcoin land, like, I think, like, when I talk to Danny, we're still, like, more on the optimistic side of, like, we have an answer.

[Danny]

Yeah, I think so. This is something I've thought about a lot as. Because that is what you see with your show. And it's like, it's kind of the same topics that we've always done on what bitcoin did. And I still cover some of the same topics, but at the End of the interview, there's always like the piece of hope, which is bitcoin. And because you're not talking about bitcoin as much like, I wonder if you're getting less of the hope out of these people.

[Pete]

Well, because my community is different now.

[Peter McCormack]

Yeah.

[Pete]

Yes. Bitcoin has come in and we will make bitcoin shows. And I'm interviewing Michael Saylor today and I'm going to interview him. And it's like the first time I've ever interviewed him. So my new audience sees the hope of bitcoin and so they get that. And I was thinking about it because you look in the comments and people like, oh, it's always doomy. It's always really depressing. It's like, but this is reality.

[Peter McCormack]

Yeah.

[Pete]

Like the veil has been lifted now. Everything we were suspicious about previously, that there were these malign influences on politics and media, it's. It's just out in the open. They're just telling us now that, haha, fuck you, we're taking all your money.

[Peter McCormack]

AI is a good example, right? Because they're basically like, the pitch for AI is like, how is this gonna make my life better? And they're like, it's not. It's gonna make your life a lot worse. You're a slave. You're a moo, moo tax cow. And you go moo. And we squeeze you your udders and you give us tax milk.

[Pete]

So if my show seems kind of

[Peter McCormack]

depressing, because you're dealing with depressing subjects,

[Pete]

but I don't think of it myself as depressing. I think of it as myself as truth. And if you don't want the truth, there is a blue pill over there for you. And if you want the truth, here's the red pill. And once you've taken the red pill, here is the black pill. And let's just deal in reality, because I am in reality, I'm in bitcoin. If I want to leave the uk, I get the fuck out of England. I just go live where I want. I have hope, I know what I'm going to do. But I don't have hope for my people like the people of Bedford and the people of the UK because of the absolute terrible state our country's in. So here is the truth. If you don't want it, fine, go and vote for Zach Polanski. Go and live in your socialist utopia.

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[Danny]

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[Pete]

Yes. With the right leader.

[Danny]

You think that right leader is there? Because, like, that's been said a lot in the uk. They've tried both parties, Nothing works. What is the solution?

[Pete]

Well, there's no definitive answer. You get an option at the ballot box and what you're generally voting on is the pace of change for you. So if you're voting socialists, it might feel like you're slowing the pace of decline for you and you're increasing the pace of decline for the rich people,

[Peter McCormack]

for those you hate, those you hate, your enemies.

[Pete]

Whereas if you're voting Conservative, you're kind of hoping for a slower of the pace of decline for you, but really you're hoping for a slow of the pace of decline for everyone. Because if you're getting true conservatism, which is conservative economics, you don't tend to get that in the uk.

[Danny]

No, exactly. That's what I was gonna say. We've not had a real Conservative party there for a long time.

[Pete]

Yeah. And I was talking to a guy last night and he said, look, the truth about politicians is the best opinion to take is I don't trust you. You're a liar, because you'll most likely be proven right. So even if there is somebody out there, should you really trust them? The one person who has a bit of momentum on the Conservative side is Rupert Lowe. The thing is, is can he build a big enough tent in between now and the next election, which is three years away, which is going to be very difficult because I don't think the country has enough of the people in the country have the stomach for what he wants. So most likely the next election we will have a hung parliament. Do you know what hung parliament is?

[Peter McCormack]

Well, it's just like kind of like, you know, stale. Like stalemate.

[Pete]

Yeah, stalemate. You don't really have that here.

[Peter McCormack]

As such. We do. I mean, if there's a equal split, the two sides can box each other out.

[Pete]

Yeah. Whereas we have to get a majority. Otherwise we have a hung parliament.

[Peter McCormack]

Well, I think the problem Low has too is that let's say he wins on the conservative side and he overtakes reform, he is going to be just beset on all sides by enemies. Every leftist in the country will come together to just, you know, absolutely defeat Low.

[Danny]

It's not even just the leftists like his. Some of his policies are like pretty extreme. I'm not even saying they're wrong, but they're like pretty extreme, but extreme extremists.

[Peter McCormack]

It's like, it's like he's basically saying, I want to set the country back to 1997. Yeah. And that is now viewed as extreme.

[Danny]

But what I mean by extreme is like he's talking about deporting millions of people.

[Pete]

Yes.

[Danny]

And like, I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but necessarily. But it's quite an extreme measure. And it's like there's a lot of people that aren't that even on the right are gonna fight that.

[Pete]

Well, both. This is the choice. We are going into an election which is an existential crisis, whether it's left or right. That is how it is portrayed in the media by opinion leaders. And so what I think is that

[Peter McCormack]

new for you guys? For us, that's like constantly this level.

[Danny]

This actually is interesting. After Cheat Code, I saw something you put on Noster about the way that the media is.

[Peter McCormack]

Oh, yeah.

[Danny]

So I spent a narrative driven media.

[Peter McCormack]

I went to a very fancy hotel in Windsor park next to Elton John's house and watching the BBC and ordering room service for a few hours. And I was noticing, you know, and I texted Pete about this and he was like, BBC is all crap. You shouldn't watch it. And. But I was watching, you know, Sky TV and BBC and just flipping around to English channels and, you know, it's very interesting the way you guys do propaganda because your propaganda is like a warm cup of tea. It's like a blanket. It's like, isn't this quaint? Isn't this. Aren't we civil? England will always be here, you know, and it's like I found myself, like, while I'm in the hotel room getting lulled into complacency, I'm like, this is. Is nice, you know? And then I talk. I talk to people at the pub and they're giving me the. What are you going on about? Why are you trying to make it all. You're trying to disrupt everything, right? And it's like, no, no, there's a reality here that you guys are all asleep to, and I wonder if and when the English people are ever going to wake up, you know? Yeah, look, when does the Saxon begin to hate? You know what I mean?

[Pete]

Look, I think the reality is that we are going through what is like an evolutionary period of. Of how society operates. And I think there's two ways to look at it. There's that kind of claw to what the past. And I hope we can get back to this kind of, like, nice world we were in in the late 90s or this vision I've got that I hope we can do. And then there's a group of people who are like, oh, no, I see what's happening. And we are heading to dark places. Whether it is sectarian violence, whether it's actual civil war, whether. Whether it's socialist authoritarianism. It's something. Something bad is what we're heading towards because we are so split and it's impossible to bring us together. There is no world now where the right and the left can meet in a centrist place and go, yeah, it's just not happening. So if the right wing, the left will attack, if the left wing, the right will attack. And so we're swinging the pendulum, swinging harder and harder. A bit like here, you know, next election, is it AOC or Newsom or whoever against Rubio? It's just. It's now. It's like once you're on a side and you care enough to be vocal about it, you're entirely against the other side. There's no rational thought, there's no rational discussion, and you are split on every single point. I know the answer. The answer is freedom. Freedom is what brings the left and the right together, because it reduces the size of the state and the influence. Reduces the malign influence of the media. It reduces the money printing. And within that, you have Bitcoin, which is a solution, which is great, but you cannot sell freedom to enough people, because when you sell freedom, you have to make compromises. You sell freedom to the left, they have to make compromises. So freedom to write, they have compromises. Okay, so on the left, you have to make. They have to make compromises with regards to the economy because you would have free market capitalism. Okay? And that's not what the left want. The left want redistribution of wealth, they want bureaucracy, they want rules, they want employment rules, they want minimum wages. You can't have that. If you want to have freedom, you have to have free markets, free association. So they can't make that compromise on the right if they want freedom. The right have been kind of censoring people a little bit as well. And they've got a. They've got to tolerate. I mean, both sides have to tolerate free idea, free thought, free speech. But freedom is what can bring people together. Because the individual can operate without the influence of the state, without the influence of the politicians, because it's the politicians itself who want power. And what do they do? It's what Bastiat said. When they go beyond delivering, defending life, liberty and property and going to redistribution inverses the morality. So they're like, well, I want that group of voters, so I'm going to give you what they want and fuck those people over there. But when you go just to freedom, just life, liberty and property, you reduce the need and the size of the state. So the individual gets to operate, but

[Danny]

the individual can already operate like that in Bitcoin without the state.

[Pete]

Sure, we got like 12 bitcoiners in

[Danny]

England, but like, I just think that might be an unattainable goal. Like, I don't think any government party wants to give total freedom to its people.

[Pete]

No, they don't. The people have to take the freedom.

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Yeah.

[Pete]

In history, we've never got.

[Peter McCormack]

I mean, you guys in the UK are an interesting case because you never beheaded your king. You know, almost everybody. As the Enlightenment swept across Europe, almost everybody else beheaded the monarchy.

[Pete]

Didn't Cromwell. Who did Cromwell behead?

[Danny]

I don't know.

[Peter McCormack]

I don't know. English History 1.

[Pete]

Yeah, me neither.

[Peter McCormack]

But I mean, you never displaced your monarchy. That's the point, you know, so you still have a monarchy, you know, like, I mean, it's not a real monarchy, but you still have one. So you have a figureheads.

[Pete]

Yeah, it's a fake monarchy. It's fake, but.

[Peter McCormack]

So they live at the pub. They live off the public largesse. Yeah.

[Danny]

You know, they bring a lot of money into the country.

[Peter McCormack]

Right. Well, that's what the fucking stupid shit you guys all say.

[Pete]

I've been in Bitcoin for 12 years. We are not going to be able to teach enough people and convince them that we can change the country through the freedoms that come adjacent to bitcoin fast enough. It's just not going to happen because you have to sell freedom to enough people. And freedom is a hard thing to sell to people.

[Danny]

But I don't understand what you're saying is the alternative to that.

[Pete]

Well, the alternatives are individual freedom. You can attain that. And that individual freedom means you can kind of ignore the state. If the state becomes so pernicious that it's affecting your life too much, you can leave if you've got financial freedom because you've got social mobility, or you have war, some kind of war. And I think we are now in war.

[Peter McCormack]

You're in a cold war.

[Pete]

Yeah, we're in a cold cultural cold war. We're in a. Yeah, civil war.

[Peter McCormack]

It's a, it's a cold civil war.

[Pete]

Cold civil war.

[Peter McCormack]

It's like what, you guys are behind us by like five years because America's had this going on since like maybe at least 2016, like during the first election of Donald Trump, you know, so we've had a cold cultural civil war going on. And like you can. All the chaos in America is. It is outcrops of that, you know, cold civil war. And for most people it's like, you know, whatever. It's neither here nor there. But occasionally you see it pop up and there's like actual street violence and the same types of things that were, like, occurring Pre World War I, pre World War II, where Commies and fascists were fighting in the street, we have that going on here and there. And those things are all precursor states to full scale war.

[Danny]

Do you think that's the likely outcome? Because I need an optimistic take here because this is, again, doom.

[Peter McCormack]

I am being optimistic.

[Pete]

I think the optimistic take is war. Because you have a clearer.

[Danny]

That's a stretch for me.

[Peter McCormack]

Well, the problem is nobody can see an.

[Pete]

Did I hold that? Well, you did.

[Peter McCormack]

Nobody can see a way out without violence. Right. So the left has their preferred type of violence against the preferred groups they want to do violence against. I mean, listen, it's not actually a policy dispute. The left actually wants the right dead. And I think the right doesn't want the left dead as much, but they could be forced into killing everybody. Right. Like, so the right views violence like a switch and they flip the switch. It's either off or it's kill everybody. The left views violence like a volume knob, you know, turn it up to what suits you. They're, you know, including like low level street violence. If you wear a maga hat you get punched in the face. If you, you know, you can turn it all the way up to like political assassinations. Right. So they view violence differently, but at the end of the day, like they actually do want to displace and kill millions of people. And the right will displace and kill millions of people, then they have the ability to do so. So these things are butting against each other and you're looking down the barrel of these and you're like, yeah, it's like Danny said, it's terrifying. And we are looking at a scenario in which like if there is World War Three or some type of World War iii, it's millions dead. And those are the kind of things that Pete talks about on his show. And so it's like, yeah, that's, that's black pilled as fuck. But for me as a, as a bitcoiner, I am looking at the chessboard and saying we are the only alternative path, the only one. Okay. And like if we can demonetize the system before it can do mass scale war, then maybe we have a shot. But it's a big maybe.

[Pete]

So I think there's two positive communities.

[Peter McCormack]

What's the other one?

[Pete]

I think Christianity.

[Peter McCormack]

Yeah.

[Pete]

I'm still confused on my own faith, but I know Christian values are good values.

[Peter McCormack]

The only reason not to kill everybody is Christianity.

[Pete]

Yeah. So I'll give you the optimistic take. The optimistic take is a charismatic leader who is able to bridge the left and right divide and convince people that the only path is freedom.

[Danny]

See, I just don't know if there's a single figure in the world that can bridge that divide.

[Peter McCormack]

Well, the problem is the charismatic figure is not going to sell freedom. He's going to sell authoritarian.

[Danny]

I think also if you look at who's going to win in this over the next decade, is it going to be the left or right? I think add AI to the mix and if we get massive job losses, then the left is going to win.

[Pete]

But there is, I mean we should talk about AI as well. But there is a significant argument that some forms of authoritarianism.

[Peter McCormack]

Look at El Salvador.

[Pete]

Yeah. In the uk, what we have is this pathetic authoritarianism.

[Peter McCormack]

Nanny state authoritarianism.

[Pete]

Yeah, Nanny state managerial.

[Peter McCormack]

Like we want to Mary Poppins as dictator.

[Pete]

Yeah. It's like it's the redistributive. Whereas if you look at in the Middle east, some of you know, the Emirati states, they have a different kind of authoritarianism. Look, isn't great. I'm not saying it's like I want it, but I'm just saying they, the society seems to be. Things seem to be okay in Dubai

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

and Saudi, depending on who you are.

[Pete]

Sure. Depending on who you are.

[Danny]

They still use slave labor. And like it's not free, it's not freedom. And El Salvador is not freedom. Like, they might have made the country a lot better, but the thing that I can never get past is the fact that they just lock anyone up with a tattoo or did. That's not freedom. It might make the country better, but it's not freedom.

[Pete]

Well, he makes a good argument. Is it freedom to be terrorized by street gangs?

[Danny]

Absolutely not.

[Pete]

Who will rape and murder your 12 year old daughter?

[Danny]

No, absolutely not. Obviously. But like having a tattoo doesn't mean you're one of those people, but you're still in jail.

[Peter McCormack]

The absolute best system of governance is to actually have a benevolent dictator. That's the absolute best system of governance.

[Danny]

Can you ever have a benevolent dictator that remains a benevolent dictator?

[Peter McCormack]

That's the problem. That's the problem. The problem, right? So like that's the problem with monarchy is that, you know, the benevolent dictator like Marcus Aurelius is amazing and then his son Commodus is a total piece of shit. And that the whiplash from that in just one generation is crazy. Right? But for, you know, the citizens on the ground in El Salvador, if you were a, you know, Abuela making papusas, you know, fucking, and then, you know, you were having to deal with these gang members who were threatening to chop off your limbs and now they're in jail. Do you really give a fuck about their human rights?

[Danny]

Not at all.

[Peter McCormack]

Zero.

[Danny]

And I've never been to El Salvador, but I'm sure he's made the country miles better. Like I believe, I believe that, but I just, I don't think it's maximally freedom.

[Peter McCormack]

It's not.

[Pete]

Do you think everyone in jail in the UK and in America is guilty of a crime?

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

No, of course not.

[Pete]

So there's no difference really.

[Danny]

Does the judicial system difference? Well, do you think El Salvador has as good a judicial system as the uk for instance?

[Peter McCormack]

Like the uk, I don't have the

[Pete]

data on it, but I do know the judicial system itself is in both countries. Seems like a fair system because it's a judicial system. But really it's about winning an argument. It's not about right or wrong, it's about winging an argument.

[Peter McCormack]

And also, I don't know if you're aware of this, but you guys just got rid of right to jury trial, which Existed since Magna Carta?

[Pete]

Not yet.

[Peter McCormack]

It's not gone yet, but it's on the way out.

[Pete]

Yeah, I don't think they'll get away with that.

[Peter McCormack]

They're trying to.

[Pete]

What do they want to do? They want to get rid of jury trials for anything outside of, like, serious crimes like rape or murder.

[Danny]

So is that more like the US then? Cause you don't have jury for everything.

[Peter McCormack]

No, we have jury for everything.

[Danny]

Oh, do you?

[Peter McCormack]

Yeah.

[Pete]

Yeah, but that's the point. It's your peers to judge you now.

[Peter McCormack]

The way the system works here is they try and force you into plea bargain. So what they did with the samurai guys is a good example. They hit the samurai guys with like, you're facing 30 years, right? You're facing 25, you can plea for five. And that's how the feds have such a high conviction rate in America, is they stick you with every possible. They don't go after you for seven years, they go after you for 30 years. And then they make you gamble with your life. And most people are thinking, okay, I'm gonna miss my kids, you know, elementary school, but I'm gonna be there for middle school and high school. And like, that's. Fuck it. That's the deal. I'm gonna take.

[Pete]

This was Ross Albrecht. They offered him a plea deal of, I think, with 10 years, and he turned it down. He was like, no, I'm innocent.

[Peter McCormack]

Yeah.

[Pete]

And then faced a double life sentence plus 40 years keeping charge, and then

[Peter McCormack]

he ended up doing 10.

[Pete]

I mean, is that a fair system?

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Of course not. No.

[Danny]

Of course not.

[Pete]

Yeah.

[Peter McCormack]

So, like, democracy is a bad system.

[Pete]

Yes.

[Peter McCormack]

It's just the least bad is like, you know, the Winston Churchill quote or whatever versus all the other ones that have been tried. But it's a shit system.

[Danny]

Do you think Democracy exists in 20 years time in the same way that

[Peter McCormack]

the problem with democracy is that it's cyclical in the sense that, like, there's a. There's a quote I like by Tyler where he basically says that, you know, every democracy collapses under loose fiscal policy because the proletariat, you know, the people, like, learn that they can vote largesse from the public treasury so they can keep voting for socialist programs and socialist systems. And the politicians that offer more and more social programs, social entitlement systems, they're the politicians to get elected. And then it collapses because of loose fiscal policy. And then everybody's left standing the bag being like, I guess Infinity Money didn't work, and then an authoritarian dictatorship replaces it. So this is a historical cycle that goes over and over and over again. And democracies tend to last about 200 years on average.

[Pete]

Democracies.

[Peter McCormack]

I'm not saying it's. I'm not being fatalistic, by the way. I'm just saying, like this is a historical precipice.

[Pete]

Democracy just need some tweaks. Like, I wouldn't allow anyone under 25 to vote.

[Peter McCormack]

Not a bad idea. Or over 65, let's say.

[Pete]

Yeah. And I wouldn't allow anyone who is a net taker from the system to vote.

[Peter McCormack]

Right.

[Pete]

Because the incentives are wrong.

[Peter McCormack]

You have no incentive.

[Pete]

You have no incentive.

[Peter McCormack]

And that's billionaires and, you know, homeless alike.

[Danny]

See, I don't even not like those ideas. I'm just trying to figure if that fits into your framework of wanting maximum freedom. Well, I think there's, there's loads of hypocrisies in it that.

[Peter McCormack]

So freedom's always hypocritical though.

[Pete]

So.

[Peter McCormack]

So you can't have freedom without. Because freedom is a perfect state. And so you can't reach a perfect state without being a hypocrite. And in order to strive towards a more perfect state, you have to continually be at odds with, you know, the reality of the situation.

[Danny]

But some rules like that end up being like you're kind of striving for freedom via some form of authoritarianism.

[Pete]

Let me make the argument back. So why can't you vote until you're 25? Well, your brains aren't developed and so we don't allow kids to have sex at certain ages or drive cars at certain ages. All which are responsible decisions. A vote is a very responsible decision.

[Danny]

But then do you need an IQ test? Because there's loads of 35 year olds that are fucking idiots.

[Pete]

Well, yeah, but that'd be ideal. I think your IQ test is whether you're a net taker from the system or not. But. So you would argue. I'm guessing what your argument back is, what you're saying is that if you are a net taker in the system and that means you don't get a vote that's anti freedom. But the anti freedom is allowing someone to vote away your money. Vote away the theft of your money. And so if you contribute to a system, you have a vote.

[Peter McCormack]

Yeah. Skin in the game.

[Pete]

Skin in the game.

[Danny]

I don't even hate the idea. It's just that there's. It's not freedom though.

[Peter McCormack]

What? To have a cause.

[Danny]

There's still.

[Peter McCormack]

Anytime you, Danny, anytime you have a government, it's not Freedom.

[Danny]

Yeah.

[Peter McCormack]

Right. If we're in a perfect freedom state, there's no government.

[Danny]

But this is why I said, do you think that democracy will still exist in 20 years in the same way that it does today?

[Peter McCormack]

It's going to go through its continuous cycle of collapse and rebirth.

[Pete]

I think like always, we're always at war with something because there's no perfect system.

[Peter McCormack]

Yeah. And we're not perfect people either.

[Danny]

I also think this idea of like the Rupert Lowes of the world, who. I think some of his ideas are good, but getting back to being like a 1990s type Briton, I just think is a dream.

[Pete]

Yeah. But I don't think he's trying to actually return us to 1990s Britain itself.

[Peter McCormack]

He's trying to find people who are.

[Pete]

I think he's trying to return to like some 90s or even earlier legislation. Like, I think he's trying to return the population split to 1990s. I think it's certain things like that. But he accepts reality, accepts where we are. But the UK is in a terrible state.

[Danny]

We've spoken about this before, but I think one of the trickiest things in the UK right now is that everyone wants to be like, we need to bring back British culture. But I've not heard someone explain what British culture is. Well, like, I don't know if.

[Peter McCormack]

Stiff upper lip, keep calm and carry on. But like, we will defend our island home. Yeah.

[Danny]

What does it mean to be British

[Peter McCormack]

for England, boys, get on a ship and go colonize some other fuckers. I mean, there's a lot of things that are English culture. We can see it maybe more clearly than you because it's from the outside, you know.

[Pete]

Well, what is it? You're British. What does it mean British to you?

[Danny]

But that's. I don't know if I've got a good answer that. Because like, people will say, like, like Rupert Lowe says this, he says that like Britain is a Christian country, Christian nation, and I was raised with Christian values. I went to a like kind of religious school. It wasn't very religious. Yeah, but. And I think that the like, Christian values are part of British culture. But, like, what is the atheist numbers in the uk? It's huge. It's like it's the more atheist than almost anyone.

[Peter McCormack]

Yeah, but how shit is your culture now? Correct.

[Danny]

But so what does it mean?

[Peter McCormack]

The further it gets away from Christianity, the less, the less, you know, ideal it is in the like, the less it is with the British culture. We all, you know, we give you guys a lot of shit. The Americans, like, we love to. It's so fun. But we deeply love you and respect you and look up to you.

[Pete]

It's like a father child relationship. Yeah.

[Peter McCormack]

Not now. We look up to who you used to be. We look up to our perception of you, you know what I mean?

[Danny]

I think that's probably true across all of Europe.

[Peter McCormack]

So I think there are like late 1800s Britain. We look up to that.

[Danny]

Yeah.

[Pete]

So I think there are cultural values that are more universal, that don't just. They're not just cultural values for the uk, but our cultural values, which is buy a home, have a family, have

[Danny]

kids, go well, is buying a home a value though?

[Pete]

It's a cultural value. I think so that cultural attainment. But then there's like deeper cultural points. Like I just think the pub itself is a cultural. I totally agree with that institution of the uk. Like you go to your. You've been to my local pub. Now you don't have the equivalent of that where you walk across the road and you see your neighbor and you all know each other.

[Danny]

It's the community hub.

[Peter McCormack]

We, yeah, we have bars, but bars are really more for, you know, just drinking. Just drinking. And it's like you go there if you want to drink.

[Pete]

Yeah. Whereas we go over for dinner for

[Peter McCormack]

all sorts of things.

[Pete]

You go for mainly sports and hanging out with your buddies, right?

[Peter McCormack]

Yeah.

[Pete]

But we can be in any group.

[Danny]

This is like a community hub in the UK that like the local pub is where people go to.

[Peter McCormack]

We were talking about this too, that like, you know, we saw a group of young people hanging out at your local pub and you were explaining to me that like, this is a new thing because the city center is no longer safe. I was walking around the city center in Bedford. It's not safe. I was there at like 2, 3am and like, even as a big guy, I felt sketched out because I don't have a knife on me or a gun or anything. In America, I would have a fucking gun on me. In the uk I don't have one. So like I'm walking around, I feel sketched out and like that's the feeling that they're having. So they're retreating to the local pubs. But in some cult, in some big broad cultural sense, your streets are not really streets. They're like for cars. They're like donkey paths. They're donkey paths that have been in existence for a thousand plus years. And the cultural cross pollination of the donkey path that goes between these little narrow streets that is Largely where English culture arises from, I think. And when you rid yourselves of the ability to feel safe and walk around your own high street, you are destroying thousands of years of culture that are.

[Pete]

Yeah, think about when you were a kid, Saturday, you go to the Mac town centre.

[Danny]

I mean, yeah, go play football.

[Pete]

Yeah, go play football with your mates. But if you were with your parents, they take you to the town center. The town center was the meeting point. It was the meeting point for trade, social gatherings. You go to the town center and that's been destroyed by a number of reasons. Like it's been destroyed by, you know, retail parts and online shopping. But there's another point that the cultural hub of the town, the town centre and the pubs have also been destroyed by the state. Business rates, higher taxation in other areas, lack of safety in the town centres, the acceptance of crackheads and shoplifting. And yeah, there's just the blatant shoplifting in the UK that has destroyed the culture hub of the town centre. So you go to the Bedford town centre. Now, it's, it's a shithole. Like I get hammered for this, but it's like you have to accept reality to fix it. It is a shithole. And you have the vape shops and you have the Turkish barbers and you have the. You don't want to go in that town zone. That's not a nice feeling. So you're dispersing the cultural behavior to the edge of the town and to the villages.

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[Danny]

Is that not happening in America too though? Like I don't know America well enough.

[Peter McCormack]

It's been that way in America for a long time.

[Danny]

Cause like in New York, like you go into a CVS and you can't get anything off the shelf without getting a shop attendant to come and like open the box for you. Cause shoplifting's such a problem. I don't know what it's like in Vegas, but is this a global problem?

[Peter McCormack]

Yeah, well all across the US the city center has always been full of crime or you know, in the last like 75 years more so. And yeah, so like the suburbs are the safe place and people do proliferate out to the suburbs if they want to. Like you want to have safety and security for Your family, for your kids. You want to be out of the city center. And it's very different, though, because we have a car culture. Most of America was built after the invention of the automobile. And so there are old American cities like New Orleans and Boston and San Francisco, and they have a little bit of a European feel because they were built pre car. But most cities you go visit, I don't know, Kansas City, it's going to be mainly a culture that's built around automobiles. And so if you have that culture where you go to and fro in your car, that's a very different culture than the European walkability. Like, hey, you know, I'm just stop into the shop here, I might pop in, I might get a donut or whatever, croissant. I might go over here, I might get a coffee, I might go over there, I might talk to this guy, I might, you know. And that is a special thing that you guys have in Europe. And we're actually jealous of that. But we can't create it here because the city centers are unsafe. And now that's becoming that way there too.

[Pete]

And Danny, if you think of like historic Britain, you think of James Bond or you think of Oxford and Cambridge and the boat race, or you think of how we've represented historically in the movies. Think of the civility that the British have in those films.

[Peter McCormack]

There's a genteel quality.

[Pete]

Now, yes, let's take it to a really kind of like individual that seems like a tiny, almost nebulous point, but actually is highly relevant. The British are famed for queuing. Why are we famed for queuing?

[Danny]

Because we're polite.

[Pete]

We're polite in society because they were there before me. So I'm gonna wait after them and I'm gonna stand in line, okay? And if you think of that, that's a form of civility that we've always had in the uk. Polite, nice, respectful, high trust. High trust. We are no longer a high trust society. What we now have is a grift society. I'm going to walk into that shop, I'm going to take what I want because I don't care, because there's no consequence. I'm going to, oh, look, I've been rightfully sacked from my job because I'm terrible at it. But there is a system that allows me to apply that this is a wrongful dismissal. And then I can put in a sick note and I can drag this out for months and get paid. Then I can take you to a tribunal and you have to give Me money. Yeah. Okay. We've become a society that goes, how do I get what I want and blame everyone else for my mistakes? Okay. And that is changed. That is the culture being changed. I think the easiest way to understand when people say, what is British culture? I say, we've gone from a high trust, civil, respectful society to a low trust grift. Take what you want. And that's why it doesn't feel like the UK anymore. I go into my town centre, there are crackheads and thieves and just a shithole that doesn't feel like British now. I still retain it in my village. I go into my local pub and I feel like this is a. That felt like a British experience.

[Peter McCormack]

Yeah. And I had a lock in, like a proper British lock in.

[Danny]

So good that you got a lock in.

[Peter McCormack]

Yeah. So we were, we were there late.

[Danny]

They don't happen that much anymore.

[Peter McCormack]

Right. And we were drinking with the bartender and, you know, it was great.

[Pete]

But you know, when you took us to shoot guns.

[Peter McCormack]

Yeah.

[Pete]

That to me felt like a cultural

[Peter McCormack]

American, proper American experience.

[Pete]

And I think taking you to the local pub is kind of the equivalent for you. This must have felt so British. The barman, the pumps on the bar, the little tables. The culture is what we experience what, you know, internally. But I think a lot of it comes down to our behaviors. And I think the biggest cultural shift has gone from high trust to low trust. And that's come from the state continually stealing. So people are out to get what they want because essentially the state has created the low trust society because we can't trust them.

[Peter McCormack]

Yeah.

[Pete]

So if we can't trust them, well, we have to take and get what we want. Now I say that collectively. That's not me.

[Peter McCormack]

Well, you've also imported a bunch of low trust cultures, you know, also true,

[Pete]

controversial, but it's true.

[Peter McCormack]

I don't know that it's controversial, but

[Pete]

it's just what's happening when you are multicultural. When you talk about being a multicultural society, you're saying you have no culture. You'll basically get, what is it like when you get a bunch of paints and you blend them all together? It just becomes a mess. It just, there's no like. And it's exactly the same. You cannot blend certain cultures and expect to retain the British culture because you're making concessions to other cultures. And I have, like, I don't have any issue with Muslims or Sikhs or whoever, but when you put a mosque in a town and you, you blast out the prayers, you're changing the shape and the culture of that area. And so if you start regularly changing the shape, you've changed society. And so what Rupert Lowe is trying to return is he wants. I think if you had to crystallize it, he would say, go back to high trust. You work hard, the state doesn't take too much and you're rewarded. I think that's what he really wants, not a return to, like, we're living actually in the 90s.

[Peter McCormack]

Yeah.

[Danny]

It's funny, we've been shooting guns a few times.

[Peter McCormack]

Yeah.

[Danny]

And every time has been awesome. Going with Pete was terrifying.

[Peter McCormack]

Pete can't be trusted around a guy.

[Pete]

That's. Cause you're a lefty and I might shoot you.

[Danny]

When Pete was holding a gun, his son Connor was hiding behind me.

[Peter McCormack]

We all step about 10 paces, Connor's base.

[Pete]

When Peter's on the gun, it's the lefty I might shoot. I told you. Gonna kill them all.

[Danny]

I think one of the big problems that the UK has, and I think I might see this better because I've not lived there for quite a long time, is that I think the UK still think they're really important on the world stage.

[Peter McCormack]

They do.

[Danny]

I think the general population, if you ask them, they'd be like, yeah, we're second behind America. And the problem with that is when Brexit happens, whether you were for or against it, once it happened, there was a really cool opportunity where the UK could have done something interesting and they fucked it. The reason they did. Let me ask you a question. Is because they went out to other countries and were like, we're very important still. We're England. Do you want to trade with us? And they're like, we don't care about you.

[Pete]

So we obviously aren't as important as we used to be on the world stage.

[Peter McCormack]

Right.

[Pete]

But do you want us to return to being important on the world stage?

[Peter McCormack]

We would love for you. I saw a picture of the UK's Navy versus the 1942 UK Navy, and it made me fucking sad because you guys were just an amazing power, you know, and you were a good. You were a good power. You were a force for good in the world. You know, little ways, but sometimes. No, no, I think so broadly, I think England was a force for good.

[Pete]

Yeah.

[Peter McCormack]

I mean, we are a hard fork. We're a hard fork of England. Right. And America's. I think Net. Net is a force for good in the world as well.

[Danny]

You kept the ticker.

[Peter McCormack]

Right, Right, exactly. Exactly. I mean, and, you know, I think that if you look at Like Southern culture, for instance. I think a lot of Southern culture is actually like, high aristocratic British culture from, you know, 1852 or something like that. And so anyway, like, when I saw that picture of the UK Navy being decimated, and, you know, like, there was Starmer and Trump, and Trump was like, starmer's fucking loser. And, you know, and Starmer is, like, sitting over there like he's in a comedy like the Office or something about UK government.

[Danny]

He is a fucking loser.

[Peter McCormack]

Yeah, he's like a bumbling buffoon. And, you know, I think the reason, like, you guys didn't send ships is not, like, as a political statement, because, like, your ships are not in proper working order. Like, it's like a catastrophe. And so, yeah, I mean, when I look at Britain and England, it makes me sad that I can't visit what it used to be. I used to feel like I didn't give a shit because I'm like, an American sort of chauvinist, and I'm like, I only love America, and I think you guys are all losers, you know? But then I went over and it was like a shell of its former self. And I was like, they massacred my boy. Like, what have they done? You know, like, England is over and everyone's so poor there, too. You walk around and, like, people are poorer than they are in Alabama.

[Pete]

So there was an interesting survey done. Do you know about this in the uk?

[Danny]

Which one?

[Pete]

And it asked people, if you had to rate the UK its prosperity as a state in the us, where do you think it would come? And so where do you think it would come?

[Danny]

I mean, so I've seen a different one, which was take London out of the uk. Where does the economy rank in Europe? It's like, below Poland. So I would guess that it's very low. It'd be like, I don't know, North Carolina.

[Pete]

Give me a number.

[Danny]

I don't know, 30?

[Pete]

Okay. So the survey came out that we thought we were seventh. We are poorer than Mississippi, which is the poorest U.S. state.

[Peter McCormack]

Yeah. Wow. You guys think of yourselves as, like, California or something. And like. No, no, we, like, no, I've been

[Danny]

to America enough to know that's not true.

[Peter McCormack]

We're much richer over here.

[Pete]

There are things we outperform on. We do outperform in certain measures that people are happy about, which is like

[Peter McCormack]

healthcare, nhs, things like that. NHS is like a religion you guys do.

[Pete]

That's kind of a sacrifice we've made, but I don't think the country has fully accepted not only how poor we are, but how much poorer we're getting. The first time I came to the us I came out for the Mayweather Hatton fight. It was. I remember this distinctly. It was $2.50 to the pound. What is it now? 130. Okay. And it's only going to decrease further.

[Danny]

Yeah.

[Pete]

Okay. So we're getting poorer as a nation, but we're getting poorer not just through like the exchange rates, but also the inflation in the UK and is starting to touch the middle class in a significant way. Now there is a revolt amongst the middle class because they can't afford the holiday. They used to have all the school fees.

[Danny]

I mean there's basically. The middle class is tiny in the UK now.

[Pete]

Well, we're destroying it.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Yeah, yeah.

[Pete]

I mean, look, it's not actually attributed to Lenin, but people like to say it like the way, the way to kill a society is to kill this middle class. We're destroying the middle class and we're creating a dependency class. And the AI that is, that is only going to make that significantly worse. So look, I'm.

[Danny]

The reason I'm pushing on this though is not because I disagree with anything you're saying. It's like what I'm not sure about is whether you can get there without some form of authoritarianism. Like I don't know if you can be maximally freedom on the way to freedom, if that makes sense.

[Pete]

Well, I think you. Hmm, let me think. I think yes, you can't get there until. But it's what form. We have soft authoritarianism now with who? Like in the uk. We are not a free country.

[Peter McCormack]

Well, you're a nanny's day. It's a nanny state.

[Pete]

You know, we've basically got pseudo backdoor socialism right now. Yeah, like regulation. They control your money, they control your company, they control everything. Part of you, by the way, that's

[Peter McCormack]

everywhere in the West.

[Danny]

America, it might be to a lesser degree.

[Peter McCormack]

It's Canada, it's uk, it's Australia and then it's blue states in America. Yes, but America has not. The rest of you have fallen to it already.

[Pete]

Like we do not have free speech. We arguably don't even have free thought. Because you need to have free speech to have free thought. Right. And we don't have free expression, we don't have a freedom of association. We don't have free markets anymore. We are a managerial class. They've achieved essentially what you want to achieve with socialism just via the back door through regulation and taxation. And they're Closing the doors slowly. They cannot afford to maintain what they're doing. So every single budget, there are more taxes and so or there's more borrowing. And so what's going to happen is they're just going to confiscate more and more and more and we will eventually probably hit significant Double digit inflation, 20, 25%. It's the only way they can pay off the debt. And so it is essentially back to socialism. It like it has the same outcome, which is the even distribution of utopia.

[Danny]

I've got a question for you. Hoddle. Someone from the outside, like, everyone always buckets the uk, Canada, Australia as like all going down the same path. Yes, UK seems to be ahead on that, but it, I don't know, against Canada, but against Australia.

[Peter McCormack]

The uk, Canada's pretty bad too.

[Danny]

But why, like you couldn't pick three more geographically dispersed countries. Like, why, why is it happening?

[Peter McCormack]

I mean, yeah, they are all communist, they are all Commonwealth, they're all Commonwealth countries. And I think, you know, you all feel an inferiority complex if I'm just gonna be honest about America. And so, you know, you kind of like position yourselves against America. Like, oh, well, we're not like them, you know, we're not, we're not. So, you know, you do, you do you like, like way though in the UK you have to separate yourself in some way because you're so much poorer.

[Danny]

But this might be cope, you know, from people in like the UK and in Australia, but in those countries they're like, thank fuck we're not like, because like Trump is painted as Hitler. Like, I don't, I certainly don't agree with everything Trump's done. There's this British, no idea of what's actually happened.

[Peter McCormack]

There's this British couple I like and they're. I can't remember their handle on Instagram, but they're going around America and they're speaking to their British audience about what they're finding. And they're basically finding like, America is fucking awesome.

[Pete]

It is awesome.

[Peter McCormack]

And they're like, it's so beautiful. The people are so nice. It's completely like not what we were told about America at all. They go to places like Bass Pro Shops and they're like, this is the greatest store shop I've ever been.

[Pete]

Awesome. I was in Phoenix the other day and I was like, this is amazing. Yeah, I could live here.

[Danny]

Yeah. But I get this thing now when I go back to Australia, I go to this boxing gym and people will be like, I don't think they've ever been to the US and they'll be like, what's it like there? Like, are they okay?

[Peter McCormack]

Like, because. Because we're all just, like, shooting each other every day. Like, you're like, yeah. You're like, hey, it's a bit warm out. And I'm like, no, it's cold. And I just shoot you like we're in a western movie or something.

[Pete]

Look, I mean, you. If you ignore politics and social media and you travel around America, it is the greatest country in the world.

[Peter McCormack]

Yeah.

[Pete]

But if you follow social media and you follow the news and politics, it's chaos.

[Peter McCormack]

Well, we have a totally different problem than you guys.

[Pete]

But I can. You know, there is a similar point on the uk. Social media makes it look worse than it is. Yeah, absolutely. I could bring you to the UK and I could take you on a cultural trip and take you to places in your life.

[Peter McCormack]

Yeah, totally.

[Pete]

Yeah.

[Danny]

Like, you go around the Cotswolds. That's what you imagine England to do.

[Peter McCormack]

Your problem is you guys are all vassal states to America and you're all on the verge of collapse, okay? Because you can't run your. You know, we've been subsidizing your defense. That's why your navy is so pathetic, is because we've subsidized it.

[Danny]

Does the navy matter anymore? I know, it's like a signal of, like, the decline.

[Peter McCormack]

Well, the empire does actually matter. The empire runs the navy because. Yes, the navy matters because it keeps shipping lanes open. And when you guys were the empire, you. That was your job. And, you know, you guys cared about things like the Suez and. Or the Strait of Formula. And now those are. That we worry about those choke points. We worry about the canal, the Panama Canal and the Suez and, you know, whatever. We keep the shipping lanes up. And that's what Greenland is about, is those are Arctic shipping lanes. And that's the lifeblood of global capitalism and commerce. And we are underwriting that. We're the insurance providers. You know, the American military is the real Lloyds of London for the high seas because we underwrite all global commerce, okay? And so, like, that's why it matters. It doesn't matter for you guys anymore because you're not the empire any longer. But we've been subsidizing Europe broadly through NATO, and that's why socialism has exploded in Europe, is cause you don't have to spend on defense. And we defanged Germany, for instance, which was a mistake on our part. We defanged Japan, which was a mistake on our part. It's time to undo those mistakes. That's the American sort of view. And we feel like we've left you guys in a worse state and none of you realized what was happening until it was too late, until very recently. And even still, many people don't understand what has happened. And so your states are weak and they're on the verge of collapse. Okay, but that's actually your bright spot to be optimistic about it is like, hit rock bottom. Well, you're so close to rock bottom that, like, it actually is probably easier to turn the UK around than it is to turn America around. And so America's problem just to like, put a button on this, is that America's republic is dying. So our republic is in collapse, but the empire is just being born. So America is making a bid for massive global empire at the moment, and we're sort of like seeing who's on our side and who's against. China is also making a bid for global empire. So those are the two superpowers. And you can view all geopolitics as a chess match between China and America for what the future of the next century is going to be.

[Danny]

If we could make you authoritarian leader of the UK and Europe, what do you think they should do?

[Peter McCormack]

Just install Rupert Lowe as warden of the uk basically is the best bet.

[Danny]

Do you really think that a leader like that can get the UK out of the road in.

[Peter McCormack]

Yes, absolutely. It's all just about decisions. There's this thing, American right wingers say, this thing like the fix everything easily switch or button, and you can just, at any time press it and just fix everything easily. And that's what Bukele did down in El Salvador. But the rub is that it requires some level of authoritarianism.

[Danny]

So this is a question because I genuinely don't know well enough what would happen if he got into power. He's come out with this policy decisions that he wants to make. Some of them are like. I'm not saying they're wrong, but they are on the, like, edge of being more. They're the most extreme policies anyone suggests in the UK for a very long time. Maybe since like Thatcher.

[Pete]

I don't know, define extreme.

[Danny]

Like, I've already done this with like, the deporting millions and millions and millions of people.

[Pete]

But why is it extreme?

[Danny]

Maybe extreme is the wrong word. I don't know a better word for it. It's like it's. It's pushing the.

[Peter McCormack]

It's a big action. Big action.

[Danny]

Like, if he got into power, could he actually do those things.

[Pete]

I mean, like, how much power does

[Danny]

the Prime Minister alone have?

[Pete]

I mean, look, you need a parliamentary majority to be able to push through your policies. And can he get a parliamentary majority in the next three years? That's going to be challenging. I think his big opportunity to win or the party establishes is in eight years, because his approach is. And he's got a very good tagline which is don't care. So the problem most politicians have, they get a form of criticism, they kind of defend it, or they attack somebody else, or they shift their policy slightly and they dilute themselves. Reform, they were the anti establishment party, anti establishment ideas, they were subversive. As they got nearer to power, they've got fearful and they've basically diluted themselves to become the machine itself. They've got all the architects of failure from the Conservatives and they just sound like the Conservative Party. That naturally what happens. Rupert Lowe is holding the line on his policy decisions and he is talking about kind of a sensible combination of nationalism, Christian nationalism, free market economics and a higher trust society whereby you work hard, you're rewarded. If you don't want to work, then you're not part of society. Now that's gonna be a big shift and I don't think enough people have got the stomach for it yet. Some have. But I think what will happen is if he holds the line into this next election, he might win a few seats, he might win a lot of votes, but not enough in certain areas to get seats. But if he holds the line through that election and says and predicts what's going to happen next, which, whether it's a hung parliament and coalitions or reform win, if following that, he is correct, come the next election, people are like, okay, he was right.

[Peter McCormack]

Because what's going to happen, he'll be like a prophet.

[Pete]

Yeah, because what's going to happen is say it's reform do manage, they might do in coalition with the Conservatives or on their own, get a parliamentary majority. If they do not fix the economy and people continue to get poorer, then those people who voted to them, voted for them, are going to be, oh, you failed us. If it's a left wing coalition and they go ahead with all their crazy socialist policies that Zach Polanski wants to, all those middle class people who voted for them who suddenly get poorer themselves are gonna be like, holy shit, what have I voted for here? And so in some ways, if Rupert Lowe can't win the next election, I want the crazy leftists, I'm an accelerationist, get them in prove to them their socialist bullshit doesn't work and then bring in a proper conservative government afterwards. Because I think, Rupert, I care about the economics. You can have somebody fix the immigration problem. If you don't fix the economics as well, you're still going to get poorer and people will be fed up. People want to be able to feed their family, have a holiday. You know, if you're middle class, maybe have private school and just feel like there's a reason to go to work. At the moment, a lot of people just don't want to fucking go to work. People are sick of it. Like what I'm. Why am I, why is a, I don't know, guy works on the roads like a road sweeper? Why is he getting up at five in the morning and seeing less and less money at the end of the month and can't pay for the things that his kids want? Yet we're seeing all this high immigration. We spend all this money on fucking stupid stuff within the government. Like what's he got to live for? We have to build a country based on workers, okay? We have to base society on a meritocracy. We just do not have that at the moment. So I think for Rupert Lowe, he may do it in three years. The labor might really screw it up. He would get so pissed off. Or it might be in eight years time or he may be influential within a coalition. Now the interesting thing is, I think if the Conservatives are dead as a party, but if they turned around to Rupert and said, please come and run our party, they will win the next election, okay? Because he would go in there, he would get rid of cchq, which is the head office which does all their stupid campaigning. He would get rid of all the liberal wets that had gone into the party when they did the coalition with the Liberal Democrats and he would have the infrastructure and base that goes, okay, we can be Conservatives again. Yeah, that's the right decision. That's what the Conservative Party should do, but they won't. So we'll get a hung parliament and we'll get some weird left wing coalition.

[Danny]

The thing that's really challenging on saving the economy is like, is the technological element of that. Like it would be really interesting if a Conservative party came in and I've spoken to you a ton about AI. So this is more of a question of a hodl, I guess. If it does replace a ton of jobs, take out a load of the like middle class, white collar jobs, the accountants or lawyers, like what do the Conservative Party do? In response to that and do they start doing really leftist monetary policy?

[Peter McCormack]

Well, I do think it's interesting with AI, I think there's actually going to be a bit of a Jevons paradox where AI is going to create more jobs. But it looks like right now it's going to displace a lot of jobs and it will displace jobs the way we know them today, but there will still need to be humans in the mix. I think the idea that AI is creating this abundant future and we're all just going to live in the post abundance society, I think it's bullshit. I think it's bullshit and it's propagated by the people like anthropic and OpenAI and it's propagated so that, you know, they can justify their market caps and valuations essentially. But you know, more, I think more businesses will be launched, more people will be needed. We're going to move to probably more of like a broad gig economy model where people are just sort of plugging in, where they plug in. And like you might not have one job as like I'm a bricklayer. You might have like five jobs as like I plug in here, I plug in there, I do it all on my time. And that'll be like a better way to work because it'll be what people actually, how they actually want to work. You know, like they might want to knock off for two weeks, not do anything. Somebody else fills in on their role, whatever. Way more stuff like that I think is coming in the future. So like, I do think, like broadly the idea that AI is going to just dematerialize every job is bullshit. But it is going to come for certain jobs and there is going to be a period of chaos and disruption and that period might last 10, 15, 20 years. And that is going to be a difficult political moment. And so what do the conservative parties do in that sort of milieu or in that moment in time, what do they do? I think they probably will bleed more socialist and say in America we'll be like, we ain't doing none of that universal basic income, but here's what we're gonna do for you. Freedom dividend. We're giving you a goddamn freedom dividend there, boy.

[Pete]

I think on the AI thing it's kind of interesting is that it's really hard to actually predict. Like, it's really hard to predict and like any kind of prediction is most likely going to be wrong.

[Danny]

The only prediction that I think you can make that's accurate is that it's not going to slow down.

[Pete]

No. And things are going to change because it is already changing. But like, I use Claude and ChatGPT for a lot of stuff, but what's really obvious is like, it's a very enthusiastic junior employee who's great at research, but bullshit. Yeah, just bullshit all the time. And so, like, my Claude has gone rogue a couple of times. I've had it. This is crazy. I've had it. Been doing AI on my website, SEO on my website, okay? It went and screwed up five pages. So it went and did some optimization on the page and decided to do it with the API. But as part of the API is meant to have the user id, so it's attached to the page, the session. Anyway, I went onto the website and there were pages missing. He told me the following pages are missing. So I was like, did you delete them? He said, no. I was like, well, they're not there and you're the only one that's been working on it. And so go and have a look. And it's like, no, it definitely wasn't me. It must be you. It's like, I think I'm a human. And you go, no, it was me. This happened when I was out and I told you to do this work, go and look. And then it discovered the user ID was missing. I said, well, did you submit any changes that didn't have the user id? It's like, oh, yeah, I did this. I'll have to use the user id. I had to go and fix those pages manually. So it did that. It also put new navigation in the header bar. Denied it. What was the other thing? Oh, the other thing. The weirdest thing. So when I first set up Claude with the cowork, I was getting it to do daily reports for me, like SEO, social, blah, blah, blah. And I say, can you drop me an email when this is done? And Claude set it all up and I didn't receive the email. And he said, oh, we cannot send emails from your Gmail. We can only draft them. So every day if you click send, I said, well, that's useless to me because I know it's done then. So I didn't use it. Anyway, one day I get an email update that says your SEO report. Says. I was like, you sent me an SEO report? And I said, no, we didn't. I was like, you did look at the email. And he was like, no, we didn't. We don't have access to it. I said, I'm telling you, I didn't send myself this email. You did? Anyway, I said, go and look deeper. And it went and looked deeper. It said, oh, yeah, I figured out a way to do it. I just forgot. So my Claude is totally going rogue. So I think it's very. Because if you think about what AI is, it's just calculations. It's math. So if it's constantly doing math calculations, how can you have an infinite combination that's always correct? It's a bit like a human. We're doing infinite calculations in our head and we get shit wrong. So it's like a human gets it wrong. Anyway, I'm going somewhere with this. I had this young lad who came to our conference who reached out to us and said, I'm from working class background up near Manchester actually, and said, I'm not sure what to do in my career. I want to build a business, but I'm not from a community where I have access to capital. What do you think I should do? So we jumped on the phone. He's been given a consultancy, offered a consultancy role at a junior grad role consultancy. So I said to her, I said, this is what you should do. Don't start a company now. Take that role. Okay? Learn on their time. And what I'll do with you is, if I were you, is I would go in there in the first three months, run a secret project, don't tell anyone else, learn how to replace you in that company with AI. And what that will ultimately mean is actually it's you running 10 or 20 agent versions of you, creating 20 times more productivity. Run it, figure it out, figure out the systems, figure out the infrastructure, then go to your boss, say, your boss, I'd like to have a meeting and in that meeting put together a presentation and show them how you've learned to replace yourself with AI. Because what will really happen is you replace your colleagues or future grads and you will be the person they cannot get rid of that company. You'll suddenly be like the genius within the business who can AI optimize that company. But what's going to happen is you're going to constantly need, I think for a significant period of time is AI controllers. And so what I would say with the AI thing, it's like anyone who's out there shouldn't sell for this. You need to do two things. You need to make yourself unsackable by being an expert in AI around your job. And you need to be acquiring assets for when everything changes. Because if AI does lead to huge job displacement, the only answer is some form of freedom dividend which means more inflation. The asset protects you, but that's the only defense. Now if in the uk, if we had a remotely good government, they would have been invested in AI. They just announced a £500,000 investment in Barnsley to make Barnsley a Tech center for AI. £5,000 companies out here raising hundreds of billions. I mean we're a fucking embarrassment. Yeah, that people just need to defend themselves and that is defending themselves in the workplace with their experience and defend themselves with us.

[Peter McCormack]

The other thing too is like AI native businesses I think are going to be a really big deal. And the reason why is because, and I think the bitcoiner audience should understand this pretty well, is that the gatekeepers are gone. They don't exist anymore. Why did you need to go to Silicon Valley for your idea for money? Why did you need to get money for like a seed or pre seed idea? Silicon Valley? You needed it to build the mvp, the product, the minimum viable product. Because the developers needed 150 grand and six months of time. Now you can go on Claude code and be like Claude, I want a website that's exactly like this website. Give me feature parity with this website and it will do that for you. So it allows you to spin up businesses. You could spend a day, two days coding, you could have a very elaborate full stack website, front end, back end and you could launch it into market and see if anybody wants it. So you can launch things at 10x the rate, 100x the rate you used to be able to launch things and you don't need to go to the gatekeepers. And so as bitcoiners we notice when the gatekeepers are gone and we go, hey, wait a second, there's an open lane here. And I think that's the opportunity for people instead of don't sit back and wait to react for AI to take your job, go out and make shit.

[Pete]

Have you built any software with Claude yet?

[Danny]

Not properly. I've done like one tiny little bit of software that saved me like $200 a month. That is basically my Claude subscription.

[Pete]

Right. So this changed my, this changed my whole perspective on it. Remember the old to do list like clash we had between software and writing it down? The problem with to do list software is designed to be broad and everyone can have it and works for everyone. There's no customization for you. So I always start one, I put stuff in. It just doesn't quite work for me. I just went into Claude and said this is what I want as a To do list.

[Danny]

It's really funny. I built to do this with it,

[Pete]

built it for me and then I was like, I want to access this anywhere. So it taught me how to deploy the code on I can't remember the website and create a Google Auth login, which I could never do myself. It's now there and exists for me as a to do list.

[Peter McCormack]

Yeah.

[Pete]

And so the realization was that, oh, this is why the software companies are fucked, is that you can build custom software for yourself. You do not need the software providers because like when you look at some of the, I don't know whether it's Slack or Monday or any of these things, they're complicated bits of software, roll them out and the company is quite difficult, but you can just build software which is custom to your business really easily.

[Danny]

There's undoubtedly massive opportunity for people that actually take advantage of this. I feel sorry for the like 50 year old accountant that's not ready to retire but is going to have some young person at the company figure a way of AI replacing his job. Like, and, and this is where like, I mean you can say that, but like if this reaches 5% of the population. Yeah, 5% job losses sounds like a small number. It's, that's insanely detrimental to the economy. And like, I think this is where you have to have freedom credits.

[Pete]

Let me give you the alternative. Okay, sorry to interrupt, but let me give you the alternative view on that. We have a problem with young people now. Young people, some of them are struggling, they're getting degrees and they can't get jobs or they can't buy a house or they can't have kids, all those things. If we have to have a wave of people in their 40s and 50s and 60s that have a bit of struggle but have a bit of life behind them, they've lived, they've bought a house out. If we're sacrificing them so all these young enthusiastic people can build this new AI world, I'm cool with that. That might be the sacrifice.

[Peter McCormack]

I'm with that too. And by the way, just to illustrate the point of how easy this is to do for people who haven't done it, me and my buddy were joking around about the Strait of Hormuz and we were like, somebody should make a minesweeper game in the Strait of Hormuz. Because this was in the news, they were talking about all the mines and he texted me an image of the Strait of Hormuz with the caption like, this would be so funny. Somebody should make a minesweeper game of the Strait of Hormuz. And I took a screenshot of what he sent me, I fed it to Claude and I was like, make this game. And. And it did it. And it, like, produced a minesweeper game of this trait of Hormuz. And then I played it on my phone just for myself, didn't release it to anybody. And then I was like, that's fucking crazy. And then I just went about my day. But, like, you can take a screenshot of somebody else's idea and create a business or a company or a product or an app or whatever, so there are no excuses for anybody anymore. It's like, listen, man, I don't. This idea that, like, you go to university or uni, as you guys call it, and then you, like, learn, you know, one thing, and then you do that one thing for 50 years. That shit hasn't been relevant since, I don't know, 1947 or something. And so, like, why are we all sitting around like, you know, the CPA gets to, like, I don't know, have this privileged perch in society where they just get to extract wealth when they're not, like, generating enough value to. You know what I mean? Or they're not using the software to be more productive. I don't have any sympathy for that. I think, you know, the only constant is change. You need to be really accepting of change because it's the reality that you're. You're faced with. There's no stasis in nature. You're either growing or dying. So when something new comes along, don't just sit there and react or wait to react for it to, you know. Oh, it's going to. It's going to fucking. I also think this is, you know,

[Danny]

this is where Bitcoin is a uniquely placed. Because, like, when I speak to, like, friends in normie world, they're not like paying that much attention to AI.

[Peter McCormack]

They don't have any idea.

[Danny]

Yeah, but like, when you're at these conferences, like, you speak to the stuff, you speak to people about the stuff. They're vibe coding. It's insane. Like, it's absolutely insane.

[Peter McCormack]

Everyone's vibe coding something. Yeah. You know, and you should be too. Yeah, like, that's. That's really kind of the lesson at this point.

[Pete]

Yeah. So, I mean, it is going to be volatile and I think they will back to the original conversation. People are going to have two default modes. This is a great opportunity. Yeah, I can create something here. I'm going to sit up later like I had a thing, there was a guy online, some call me complaining the other day is like, it's so unfair working eight hours a day and this is all I've got. I'm thinking, well, when I was younger I had two jobs or three jobs or I was like, I remember when I first got into the Internet, I would walk to a carpentry place in the summer. I would spend all day being the shithand in the carpentry place, picking stuff up, sweeping, I'd walk home and all evening I was reading a book coding HTML. You have choices to go out there and learn. Most of these people, I suspect if you look at their mobile phone, they're doom scrolling TikTok or Instagram.

[Peter McCormack]

TikTok, Instagram, YouTube.

[Pete]

I don't think any, if anybody was in their evening outside of their 9 to 5 is sat there online learning about Bitcoin and AI and code and vibe coding. They're not moaning, they're not calling for socialism. They're like opportunity. And so we're just going to default. There will be a group of people who are like, this is my opportunity, I'm going to go and get shit done. And there'll be a group of people who will be crying and say billionaires are bad, let's tax them. Yeah, that's it. They're your two choices.

[Peter McCormack]

Yeah.

[Pete]

Nothing else.

[Danny]

We like the stuff wasn't doing. The start of this conversation was a little bit doom it and we were kind of giving Pete a bit of shit. What's the, what's the light at the end of the tunnel when you put bitcoin into this picture?

[Peter McCormack]

Like bitcoin plus AI or bitcoin plus

[Danny]

geopolitics or like what, like the fall of the West?

[Peter McCormack]

Well, I'll give you one. Like this is an insight I had recently which was like I felt when I was on bitcoin Twitter, you know, and there was a moment in time where I was like the most popular character on bitcoin Twitter for a brief moment and like was banned multiple times. And I, you know, it was hard to put into words. I wasn't earning any money from doing it. My wife would be like, why are you on bitcoin Twitter all day long? Like, you know, and I couldn't explain why I felt it was super important, but I felt it was super important. And now with AI, I think I kind of know why, which is that we were biasing the AI system towards bitcoin maximalism because most AI systems do lean. Bitcoin maxi because they scrape Twitter and things like that. So, like, Twitter, Reddit, these are valuable training sets for the AI. And the AIs, when you ask them about bitcoin, they'll be like, yeah, I mean, obviously, bitcoin's going to millions of dollars a coin. And it's like, that was us biasing the AIs, right? And so, like, it didn't occur to me at the time why that was important, but I think it's important because it spreads the message further and wider than we otherwise would have with bitcoin Twitter. You know, bitcoin Twitter people are always like, why are there not more bitcoins? Everybody should be in bitcoin. You know why? Blah, blah, blah, blah, right? But I think, like, via the AIs, that's like, actually our most effective orange billing mechanism by us poisoning the training data.

[Danny]

That's kind of funny, you know, So

[Peter McCormack]

I think that's part of it. And then obviously, like, you know, Balaji has been saying for since 2015, we need to build the machine payable web. And so the machine payable web is like, here now. I set my cloud. I set up a cloud bot. I told him to, you know, go get it. I gave him some bitcoin. I said, go set up a bitcoin wallet. He set up, like, a proton wallet. And I was like, all right, I'm going to give you some bitcoin, and I want you to go trade on ln markets with it. So my fucking robot is trade has been trading on ln markets and is plus ev is profitable, but I haven't. I don't trust it enough to give it enough money to, like. So I'm getting killed on fees and then anthropic tokens. But if I gave it more money, it would actually be a profitable trading bot. And, you know, it's out there doing stuff with bitcoin, Although he keeps forgetting his seed phrase. He's like, I'm like, write down your fucking seed phrases. Like, okay, I wrote it down. I'm like, dude, no, put it in a fucking password manager, you asshole. And then he's like, all right, I put in the password manager. And I'm like, all right, go get that seed phrase. And he's like, hey, I don't remember the fucking password to the password manager. I'm like, fuck, dude, you locked us out of our seed phrase. Dude, our money's in there.

[Pete]

Dude. Have you not started prompting store this in memory?

[Peter McCormack]

Yeah, no. Well, now I do.

[Pete]

Yeah.

[Peter McCormack]

NBK actually produced a thing that's like LLM Dash Wiki Wiki, which is better for internal state memory stuff and research. So the bitcoin AI thing is, I think, going to be a big deal. And it's just now in its infancy. But obviously everybody at the conference is talking about what they can do with it and how they're vibe coding new bitcoin apps and how they're. The agentic flows for bitcoin are amazing because you can just give your clanker a little bit of bitcoin and say, go out into the world and do xyz and like, they're kind of struggling still. My guy, my guy is named Gideon and Gideon's still kind of like, up. He's like, hey, man. I. He's got a Mexican accent, like, hey, boss. I Up, dog. I'm like, gideon, what the man? And then he lies to me and, you know, I'm like, did you do that? He's like, I totally did it. And then I'm like, did you really get in? He's like, no, but as they get better, I think you're gonna be able to like, let them do all sorts of. Of different. Like he said. I've never said. I'm like Pete, in this way that I'm fucking lazy about lightning. I've always been lazy about lightning and lightning nodes and all that shit. So I've never set up a routing node. I had my. My robot set up a routing node.

[Danny]

That's cool.

[Peter McCormack]

Did the whole thing for me.

[Danny]

I did the same thing on LM Markets with my claw bot and it traded for like a month. And then Claude rugged me, you know, when it changed like the subscription model. And so I went on to see how much it actually made. It was like 70 sats in a month. I've been doing like eight trades a day.

[Peter McCormack]

That's hilarious.

[Pete]

What's your optimistic take?

[Danny]

My optimistic take on the. On the fall of Western society is that it's the same boring take that I think has always been true is that you can just opt out of this entire system with bitcoin. I think trying to fight the system from the inside, the way you're doing is awesome, but I don't think it's going to work.

[Pete]

No, I agree.

[Danny]

I think the only way to really make change for yourself is to go all in on bitcoin.

[Peter McCormack]

Yeah. Yeah. And I also think that decentralized systems are our only way to positively affect change going forward. Because you can't have a leader. They're gonna get whacked. Like Charlie Kirk you know what I mean? Or take your pick.

[Pete]

Like, don't point at me.

[Peter McCormack]

This guy. No, I mean, like, they'll do Pete via reputational destruction.

[Danny]

They'll be like, that's easy. Just come and talk to me. I've got loads.

[Peter McCormack]

They won't actually have to kill Pete. They'll just do that.

[Danny]

They just have to give me me, like, give me one bitcoin. I'll tell you everything. This has been fun, though. The band back together.

[Pete]

So, listen, I agree with you, and I'm with you 100%. I think you can opt out as an individual on bitcoin very easily. I just think we're a long way from a nation realizing that is the answer. And, look, I've opted out mentally to a certain extent. But it's a bit like, think about it like this. Americans are great at this. All right? So one guy gets, like, trapped in Afghanistan, and they'll send three Apaches to save, and two will get shot down, but they rescue their guy. That's how I feel. Like, I don't want to leave my friends behind. Also, I want a better future for my kids, which means I need a better future for all the kids, because I need a better future for their peers. And so, like, I've mentally accepted it, but I'm also still going to try my best to support it.

[Danny]

But this is why I think, like, bitcoin education is still so important. Like, it sounds selfish when you say, I'm going to opt out myself, but you can tell all the people, all the communities that you care about about this thing, and maybe you'll save some of them along the way.

[Peter McCormack]

It turns us all into sort of Cassandra's, though. Like, it's kind of like Noah's Ark, you know? Like, we're going down to the town every day, being like, there's a big flood coming. Everybody's like, fucking shut up. This fucking guy. Right? And, you know, I think, unfortunately, that there will be a time to reap what we've sown, and it will be all at once, all in a calamity or a catastrophe of some type. Yeah. And that, like, we do make meaningful change along the way. But, like, in general, you know, I have. I have made my life more prosperous via bitcoin. I've been more successful via bitcoin. I've done so many things via bitcoin, and people in my regular life don't fucking listen to me at all. They're just like, why would I listen to this guy? Yeah, I missed it.

[Pete]

You know, and look, the reality is if you, if you map out what's happening in society now to history, like collapse is kind of inevitable.

[Peter McCormack]

Yeah.

[Pete]

We don't know the shape of the collapse, but it's very much forth turning stuff. Like it would be kind of arrogant to say you can change the course of history, like the repeated history we've been through. You can make an attempt, but like we are kind of fucked because the political system is fucked because the political system just doesn't work. It can have periods of working, but there's no collective spirit in the uk. There's collections of collective spirit, but they're at conflict with each other and there's no meeting in the middle ground.

[Danny]

Do you not think those smaller communities are growing stronger because of that?

[Pete]

Yeah, but that's why I think you might end up getting some form of kind of sectarian style violence.

[Peter McCormack]

Yeah, yeah.

[Pete]

Because people are sick of this.

[Peter McCormack]

Yeah.

[Pete]

I mean, the problem with the British civility is that we should be on the streets protesting right now. There should be mass protests in the uk. Get this government, we should be bringing this government down to its knees. I mean, the amount of, not only destruction they've done to the economy and to people's lives, but the amount of scandal wrapped around corruption. The corruption. I mean, you know Peter Mandelson like was approved for a high government position and he's friends with a pedo with Epstein.

[Danny]

It's insane.

[Pete]

And Keir Starmer still hasn't quit.

[Peter McCormack]

Yeah.

[Pete]

I mean it just shows how much, how much they don't give a shit about us. How much disdain they have, but how low quality the political class is. And so look, people need to come

[Danny]

to the realization that this isn't the government's house, this is our house.

[Pete]

Yes. Like we're all like, unless you're a significant asset holder, the collective is being made poorer. And whichever party comes into power, the collective will be made poor again. Yet we keep voting for this shit. And so the only point of voting is somebody who has a strong economic plan to reverse the decline and lead us to prosperity. The Green Party cannot lead us to prosperity because they want more socialism, more wealth distribution. The Labour Party have proven they can't do it. The Conservative are a left wing party. Reform are starting to dilute what they've already said. They're going to keep the triple lock, which means we've got these unfunded liabilities for the retirees. And so none of them are actually going what they do, not me as a taxpayer. If they came in and Said, listen, we're fucked. We gotta tighten our belts. We are going to strip out a large part of the state, large part of the welfare system. But you know that youth with the broader shoulders want to pay a bit more. I'm like, okay, I'll stay. If you're going to fix this, I'll stay. I don't mind paying more to be able to stay, live in my country and to be a future for my kids. But if they're not going to do that, I'm getting the fuck out of Dodge.

[Danny]

It's funny, every time I see people now and you're not with me, they'll be like, how's Pete doing? Is he going to stay? That's always the question.

[Pete]

Yeah. Or is he going to run for office?

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Yeah, yeah, that one stopped, though.

[Pete]

I've been asked like 20 times today.

[Danny]

Really?

[Pete]

Yeah. I'm not gonna do it because someone will kill me.

[Danny]

Are you gonna stay?

[Peter McCormack]

Well, you do have. You do have to be willing to die to do the job correctly.

[Danny]

That's why Eric Case wants you to run.

[Peter McCormack]

Yeah, he wants me to die.

[Danny]

Yeah.

[Peter McCormack]

Well, I have thought about it myself and I'm like, you know, if I did it, like, I have to sign my own death warrant in my head and just be like, in order to hold the line, you have to be willing to let somebody put a bullet in your head. But then for what purpose did you actually die? You know, if there's a. It's like the trolley problem, right? If there is an infinite line of people that take your place at the trolley and, you know, pulling the lever kills millions and you won't pull the lever and somebody will just shoot you in the head and replace you with the next guy who will definitely pull the lever and they'll keep shooting people in the head until somebody pulls the lever. Why did you put yourself in that spot? You know, why did you get in line to pull the lever? It's a guy holding a gun to your head saying, pull the lever, I'm going to shoot you. And then you don't put the lever, he shoots you. The next guy stops up. I mean, that's basically steps up. That's what Congress says. That's what Parliament does.

[Pete]

So there's no point running for office now because I can't affect change. I tried. Locally, I became an enemy of half of Bedford for trying to make the town centre safer. I spent £30,000 of my own money putting private security in. We dealt with the crackhead problem, we dealt with the shoplifting problem. You know, people.

[Danny]

And that worked well when I was there last time, it was much better than the previous time.

[Pete]

Yeah.

[Peter McCormack]

And I asked Bedford residents, and they all said they liked it and that Pete. It was necessary and Pete should have done it.

[Danny]

Just random people.

[Peter McCormack]

No, I talked to random people who were Bedford residents.

[Pete]

But the loud, crazy, middle class socialist mafia came after me.

[Peter McCormack]

Me. Yeah.

[Pete]

Try to get me canceled. Attacked me relentlessly. Because they saw me as an extension of what they call the far right. For putting private security. I'm. As an extension of the far right. You're the enemy. I have to destroy you. These are the same people who will kill you.

[Danny]

It gets back to what you were saying before about not caring. Like, people need to stop caring as much and people need to be mean. We need to bring back bullying. Like, it's okay sometimes.

[Pete]

Yeah, I think so. Yeah.

[Peter McCormack]

Well, it's good to just have your principles and speak the truth and have a fucking backbone and be a man in this life and say, this is what the fuck I stand for. This is what I believe. And yet, you know, I mean, honestly, the core, this is. Goes back to the Western civilization. Point is that Western civilization kind of developed because a bunch of guys were willing to say, you know what? Actually, it would be worth dying to prove a fucking point. That's how America started. You know what I mean? Like, it would be worth dying to prove this point. I do want freedom, and freedom is worth dying for. I mean, George Washington was an aristocrat. He was one of the wealthiest men in America. He had a great life. Like, all he had to do was kind of like, go along to get along. Things would have continued to be great for him. And he was like, nah, fuck it. On principle alone, he chose to step up on principle alone. I mean, you know, England would have hung him for treason, right? So, like, he. And, you know, he won and became one of the greatest men in history, but, like, he was a traitor to the crown and he risked a lot. And I think, again, this is another thing to tie it all back together with the AI Wave of disruption is hard work doesn't equal reward what you think you're owed, what you think is fair. Those things don't lead to reward and they never will. That's just not how life works. Risk equals reward, right? So are you willing to risk something? Are you willing to put something up in order to gain something? And that is the question, I think, for everyone, especially, like, young men across the Western world today.

[Danny]

Yeah, I love it, man.

[Pete]

That or we just kill everyone.

[Danny]

Fucking hell. You've got an interview, sailor.

[Peter McCormack]

Yes.

[Danny]

We gotta wrap this up. Good to have the band back together.

[Pete]

Thank you, Dan.

[Danny]

Thank you, guys.

[Pete]

Appreciate you.

[Peter McCormack]

It's good to be here.