Gunther

Summary

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What Do You Wanna Talk About? with Cody Rhodes

Episode: Gunther (March 4, 2026)

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Episode Overview

This episode welcomes WWE Superstar Gunther for a candid, in-depth discussion with Cody Rhodes. The two explore Gunther’s European wrestling roots, his unprecedented rise within WWE, the weight of retiring John Cena, personal philosophy, physical transformation, and the modern state of wrestling. The episode is rich with reflections on legacy, style, personal growth, and the changing landscape of WWE, while blending humor and unfiltered honesty.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Gunther’s WWE Journey & Heritage

• First Impressions and Titles

  • Gunther reflects on being at the WWE Warehouse for the first time and his attachment to wrestling memorabilia.
  • Titles discussed: Intercontinental, World Heavyweight, and UK Championship—Gunther fondly recalls the NXT UK title belt.
  • (03:01) "I don't have that much memorabilia yet... I just walked around here and saw all those great items." – Gunther

• Wrestling Roots in Vienna

  • Gunther’s passion for Japanese and indie wrestling runs deeper than early WWE fandom.
  • Describes Vienna’s District 11, the influence of Austrian legend Otto Wanz, and the rarity of WWE exposure growing up.
  • (13:12) "Otto Wanz is like in Austria... Hulk Hogan, Undertaker, Otto Wanz—that's what people know about wrestling." – Gunther

• Distant WWE Dreams

  • Pro wrestling wasn’t viewed as a realistic career choice in Vienna—Gunther’s initial goal was simply to make a living wrestling.
  • (14:19) "All of this, that's not a realistic option if you grow up as a young boy in Vienna." – Gunther

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2. Retiring John Cena—The Magnitude & Ambivalence

• Contrasting Experiences with Cena

  • Gunther, unlike Cody, did not grow up idolizing Cena or sharing much backstage history.
  • (07:01) "Until the day of the match, I maybe said hello to him twice—that was all the interaction we ever had." – Gunther
  • Cody discusses his “student” dynamic with Cena in contrast to Gunther’s “another day at the office” approach.

• Weight of the Moment

  • Gunther describes Cena’s retirement as “heavier than WrestleMania,” affecting even the most stoic.
  • (05:41) "It almost felt more intense than WrestleMania that day." – Gunther
  • Reflects on being both the most hated and envied man in the building, relishing the gravity and challenge.

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3. Personal Philosophy, Growth, and Responsibility

• Chasing Challenge Over Checklists

  • Gunther is driven by mastering new responsibilities rather than ticking off accolades.
  • (17:02) "I never had that list of 'that's what I want to achieve.' I always want to grow in the responsibility I can take on." – Gunther

• Keeping Grounded

  • Leans on close friend Marcel (Ludwig Kaiser) and occasionally Paul Heyman for feedback rather than a large circle.
  • (19:05) "Marcel obviously—Kaiser—he's my best friend, so He's good at giving me perspective." – Gunther

• Mentorship & Influences

  • In wrestling, Gunther identifies Stan Hansen and Kenta Kobashi as major influences for their intensity (61:00).
  • Outside, credits a logistics job boss for teaching lasting life skills (43:55).

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4. Locker Room Culture & Legacy

• Directness and Honesty

  • Gunther embodies European bluntness, balancing honesty with an awareness of American cultural norms.
  • (65:08) "Being straightforward is good because it gets you where you want to go quicker. But also, maybe it was too direct sometimes over here." – Gunther

• Locker Room Evolution

  • Praises WWE’s modern diversity, the open paths to the top, and a shift from “one direction” to many.
  • (69:15) "WWE always felt like one direction... now I think there’s many ways you can go to make it to the top." – Gunther

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5. Physical Transformation & Discipline

• Cutting Weight for Professionalism

  • Gunther discusses his massive weight loss (300 lbs down to 230–240 lbs) as a practical, professional decision for TV.
  • (47:02) "I think it must have been around… I'm now 230–240 all the time. I was 300 at the highest." – Gunther

• Sustaining Health in WWE’s Demands

  • Highlights the challenge of constantly staying in shape, with insights into gym culture and diet on the road.
  • Emphasizes that although fitness is crucial, it’s not the only factor—unique talents are equally important (52:07).

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6. Style, Image & Iconography

• Minimalism & Signature
  • Cody praises Gunther’s “less is more” fashion sense; Gunther jokes about being Rolex’s “watch guy.”
  • (10:12) "You have this really, what would be the measured but also kind of less is more style." – Cody Rhodes

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7. In-Ring Philosophy & “The Chop”

• On Ring Psychology & Chops

  • Gunther lauds the power of basic moves—especially his signature chop (31:00+).
  • Respects the origins (Kenta Kobashi) and never offers “chop for cash” fan stunts, to protect the art’s mystique (33:43).
  • (33:44) "Because I'm a professional and they're not." – Gunther

• Preference for Simplicity

  • (33:18) "I always like to use very basic instruments and still try to achieve a big reaction." – Gunther

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8. Modern vs. Old School Wrestling

• Rejecting Stereotypes

  • Gunther distances himself from the old “foreign menace” tropes; focuses on character depth over nationality (35:00+).
  • (35:00) "I try to avoid everything that has to do with a flag or something... It's not 1990 anymore." – Gunther

• Pro Wrestling > Sports Entertainment?

  • Michael Cole’s commentary called Gunther’s defeat of John Cena “Pro wrestling beats sports entertainment” (76:05).
  • Gunther is validated by this alignment with his personal philosophy and Ringkampf’s mantra (76:46).

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9. On Being “The Man” & What’s Next

• Post-Cena Trajectory

  • Gunther doesn’t aim for the isolated “mountain top,” but wants to be “the guy” that younger generations aspire to face in big matches (71:05).
  • (71:44) "Where I want to get to is... be able to get into that spot, but then wrestle Ilya in that position, have great matches with Braun, with Oba..." – Gunther

• Admiring Different Roles

  • Acknowledges the heavy responsibility and media burden Cody and others carry as top babyfaces, preferring his own approach (72:06).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "I never had a match my whole career where I felt like... 'I'm not feeling it today,' but once I'm in the ring it's like, yeah, we're good."
  — Gunther (17:58)

• "I need my wrestling to be real."
  — Cody Rhodes (30:59)

• "If the home is not a supportive environment…that anchors you a lot. So that, that's a big game changer for me."
  — Gunther on family & marriage (45:31)

• "It just says 'Give up.' Very accurate."
  — Gunther, noticing John Cena's 'Never Give Up' shoe display (59:58)

• "Stan Hansen. The man. Absolute machine… unlimited gas tank."
  — Gunther, on in-ring inspirations (61:01)

• "I just want one bodybuilder back in the mix. Just one full-blooded tear-a-pec..."
  — Cody Rhodes on wrestling physiques (52:33)

• "We need one another. The marquee says two names. John Cena's retirement match wasn't against nobody."
  — Cody Rhodes (72:39)

• "Without Ross and company being the way they are, someone like me couldn't exist. If everyone was like me, I wouldn't stand out."
  — Gunther, on diversity in wrestling personas (73:24)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [03:01] – Gunther on memorabilia and the NXT UK title 
• [04:32] – Gunther reflects on retiring John Cena 
• [10:12] – Cody praises Gunther's minimalist style 
• [13:12] – Gunther describes Vienna wrestling culture and Otto Wanz 
• [15:53] – Cody asks Gunther if he considers himself the best wrestler 
• [19:05] – Gunther on his relationship with Marcel Kaiser and Heyman 
• [31:00–33:44] – In-depth on the art of the "chop" and in-ring psychology 
• [35:00] – Gunther on avoiding the “foreign menace” stereotype 
• [47:02–50:51] – Gunther’s physical transformation; being in shape in WWE 
• [61:01] – Stan Hansen as Gunther’s wrestling idol 
• [76:05] – Michael Cole’s “pro wrestling beats sports entertainment” call 
• [77:32] – Gunther’s “dream team” for War Games 

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Gunther’s Dream Team (77:32)

War Games–Five Man Squad

• Ludwig Kaiser (Marcel Barthel)
• Ilja Dragunov
• Kenta Kobashi
• Fit Finlay
• (Gunther subs himself for Stan Hansen, preferring variety)

"I think it would be a good team at the bar after, too." – Gunther

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Final Thoughts

Gunther reveals himself to be a thoughtful, disciplined, and humble wrestler who carries the old-school ethos into the modern era. He balances self-assuredness with a drive for continuous growth, and values both tradition and evolution in wrestling. Gunther and Cody Rhodes share mutual respect, humor, and candid reflections, making this episode a treat for wrestling fans old and new.

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For listeners who missed the episode:
This conversation offers a rare, nuanced portrait of Gunther’s rise, mindset, and the state of WWE—full of locker room stories, philosophy, and punchy exchanges between two of wrestling’s top minds.

Transcript

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[Cody Rhodes]

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[Gunther]

Rate it T for T.

[Cody Rhodes]

My career has been a fight a long. Brutal, but necessary. I was told no more times than I can count. Every single time. I proved them wrong.

[WWE 2K26 Announcer]

Wwe2k26 Pre order now.

[Cody Rhodes]

Hello everybody. It's the American Nightmare, Cody Rhodes. We are at WWE's warehouse. Thank you, Ben Brown for providing this wonderful setup. This is a WWE and Fanatics original production. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to what do you want to talk about My guest today, Quite the man in the news feed and we just recently had his counterpart in the final match of John Cena's career on the podcast as well. One of my favorite people, a lot of your favorite wrestlers, favorite wrestler, former World Heavyweight champion, Intercontinental champion, all of those things. And one of my absolute favorite people, a style icon too. We might get into that here and now. Ladies and gentlemen, the man who's making all these kids cry these days. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the podcast. Gunther.

[Gunther]

Thank you. What an intro. Thank you for having me.

[Cody Rhodes]

Sometimes it's not there, you know, Even if it's someone you really know. And then you look at them and you're.

[Gunther]

Oh.

[Cody Rhodes]

I also think the intros are becoming a problem because it's like, let's just get to it, you know what I'm saying? Not everyone, you know, it's wrestling, though. So as we mentioned, here's the World Heavyweight Championship and the European Championship. The Intercontinental Championship. Do we call that the European Championship?

[Gunther]

The uk, that beautiful NXT UK champion. What a.

[Cody Rhodes]

What a nice belt it was.

[Gunther]

Yeah, I liked It. A lot. I don't even know. I asked them back then, like, I wanted to keep the originals. Yeah, you're never going to use it again. But they were very big on, like, no, we got to keep it in the archive. So I don't know, maybe that's the one. Well, I mean, what's.

[Cody Rhodes]

What's to stop you here? You come in here. Do you have anything you could trade? Ben Brown's all about a trade.

[Gunther]

Oh, yeah, right. All about a trade might be a good idea.

[Cody Rhodes]

He also under the, you know, off the books, even though this is now public. In the space off the books. Every now and then, we'll slide you something from your career that. I got one, for example, Oval Intercontinental Championship, if you're looking for it.

[Gunther]

Thank you for that. I've got it. Yeah. But I don't have that much memorabilia yet, I have to say. It's like I just walked around here a little bit and I saw all those, like, great items, and I was like, I don't know that I have anything.

[Cody Rhodes]

Have you ever been here before?

[Gunther]

No. Oh, my God. My first time.

[Cody Rhodes]

Well, before. Before we talk about this wonderful place, you have something special brought to us by our friends at Wheatley American Vodka. What is that?

[Gunther]

This is a special drink. Very fitting for me. It's called Blood, Sweat and Causing Tears. Wow.

[Cody Rhodes]

Blood, Sweating, Causing Tears.

[Gunther]

A bit thirsty, anyway.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah, absolutely. Cheers to you, but. Boom. Thank you, sir.

[Gunther]

Here we go. Salty. Very nice. As it should be.

[Cody Rhodes]

That's. That's a good one. Again, thanks to our friends at Wheatley American Vodka, I have my American mule here, which is outstanding. Thank you to Bailey, who put this together. All right, so Blood, Sweat, Causing Tears. In classic Ric Flair sense of what's causing all this.

[Gunther]

Yes.

[Cody Rhodes]

All these tears. I would include my own in in this. You have now just retired the greatest of all time, John Cena. How are you feeling?

[Gunther]

I feel fantastic. And as you said, I could tell everybody was very. Yeah. That day, strangely, it felt like. It almost felt like more intense than WrestleMania that day. Sure. Like, backstage, I could tell. And for me, I always catch myself in those moments because, I don't know, I don't make a secret about it. Like, I wasn't a big WWE guy when I wrestled myself and stuff. I was always a big nerd for, like, Japanese wrestling and indie wrestling. That's what I always looked at, especially when I was younger, like, 18, 19, my early 20s. So a lot of those, like, big memories that came with John. I didn't. I don't really live through this. I just saw it like on. I was reading results and stuff like that. And so I just catch myself in the middle of this, the emotional stone that I am. And everybody was like, very worked up, but also for my own benefit. It was great to be the guy that can. Yeah. Pull the rug on everybody.

[Cody Rhodes]

Don't you think maybe it's apt that like you said, you weren't really big into WWE growing up and all of Jon's milestones and things that were happening. It almost feels like that's appropriate that it was you versus someone. You know. I have my match with him at SummerSlam and it's filled with callbacks and emotion and drama and definitely the heavy weight of knowing who he was to me and who he was to me at. At that moment as well. The teacher, the student, those things for you. Another day at the office.

[Gunther]

So that's true because also you. You kind of like you were there with him for a few years.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Gunther]

Like that. The whole time. He was like the top guy the whole time.

[Cody Rhodes]

Oh, my gosh. I drove him around and he was the. I was wrestling Carlito in the second match. Or who knows? It was changing on the regular wrestling fit. It was something like that. And him. Randy, him, Umaga, whatever it may be, every live event we did, he'd get in the car and. And really, more than anything, I felt like I was there to learn and be a wrestler on that card. But it. It felt like I was still driving the rock star around. It was his show, especially during that time where a lot of freshmen on a varsity team. We were. There was the top and then there really wasn't that much else.

[Gunther]

So. Yeah. Yeah. Z. I never had that with him because I think from until the day.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Gunther]

Of the match or maybe said hello to him twice, that was all the interaction that. Wow. We ever had.

[Cody Rhodes]

So you can hear people collectively. More tears now.

[Gunther]

Yeah. So. Yeah. So basically just ran into it when it comes to him as a person. Yeah. But. Yeah. What a. What a deal. I think it's the biggest thing I've done in my career. Like the. The first time I was ever part of. Of something with like that magnitude where I could really feel like it affects everybody. Yeah. And. Yeah. Then on the other hand, it's a bit like when I talk to my friends about it and stuff. It's a bit. I chuckle a bit because I catch myself in the middle of that.

[Cody Rhodes]

Of course. Well, you've chuckled quite a bit lately. A lot of smiles.

[Gunther]

Yes.

[Cody Rhodes]

I came out to A very unruly crowd left the arena as a little viral video of you leaving the arena and it being a bit contentious.

[Gunther]

Yes.

[Cody Rhodes]

Did you feel. And I was going to ask you this, and you were surrounded by professionals and a really wonderful roster, but also a lot of young talent and a lot of actually young corporate in the WWE infrastructure. Did you feel there was a sense that this was a very real moment? Because I was looking at you at one point and I thought, he's kind of the most hated person in the building today. And then also, in a way, the most envied person in the building today. The responsibility of all that. Did you feel like you said it felt bigger than WrestleMania or it felt heavier than WrestleMania?

[Gunther]

Yeah, I think heavier is a good. A good term. And. But I gotta be honest, I love those situations. Like, I'm somebody that's. In general in life. I get bored by mundane stuff, like very quick. Even like the other jobs I had before, it's like, okay, that's your responsibility. Okay, Master dad, what's next?

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Gunther]

And if I get caught in a loop where it's kind of like, yeah, you just do busy work, it's the same old. And I get. Yeah, I get bored quickly. So I love those situations with a lot of response.

[Cody Rhodes]

I think you need those situations. Yeah. It's a sign of your career is something's happening with it where you walk in and you know, hey, this is a big one today, where you look around and the iconography is you are your opponent when. When. You know, a lot of people, as John Cena taught me, the flights for Saturday night's main event, for all of us who were there were paid for by you and him. That. That was the match. That was the money match. That wasn't. There were other matches on the show, and I was very honored to be part of it. But something that's lost on a bit of the newer generation is not every match sells tickets.

[Gunther]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

And that match, that event that actually sold tickets. And I was saying, you need those heavy moments, you need those milestones, because when you look at your body of work, you can look back and go, I'm way different. This is wild. And I don't know how I'm going to bring it up, but I landed in Louisville, Kentucky, yesterday. I did a meeting with wonderful people at Wheatley American Vodka. And I used to be in Developmental in Louisville. And as we were landing, I was just looking out, asking myself, am I the same person? Because I'd hate if the answer was yes, am I The same little kid inside, whatever. Versus or have I actually, have there been some things along the way? And I, I mentioned that because I called you a style icon in your intro, as I.

[Gunther]

Very nice of you.

[Cody Rhodes]

I, I, Well, I feel like maybe it's a bit not spoken about in terms of. You have this really, what would be the measured but also kind of less is more style about it. But I, I'm pointing out this timepiece that's on your wrist as you have become the. The watch guy at wwe.

[Gunther]

What do you have as well? Rolex. What is it? GMT 2.

[Cody Rhodes]

GMT 2. Rose Gold?

[Gunther]

Yes.

[Cody Rhodes]

Is it, is it a nickname? GMT 2 or is it just a Rose gold?

[Gunther]

No, no, I don't think that has a. They call the other one the two Tone.

[Cody Rhodes]

They call the two Tone.

[Gunther]

I don't know if they call that one Root Beer. It's definitely the root category. The root beer category. Yeah. Thank you. It's a bit of a. As you know yourself, it's a nice thing, but. Yeah. Gotta stop myself a little bit.

[Cody Rhodes]

Well, no, you're, you know, it's. You don't. Because, I mean, it is.

[Gunther]

You don't have to.

[Cody Rhodes]

But what, what did you wear on the day that. That you and John Cena went into the ring?

[Gunther]

Also gmt, but the yellow gold one comes with the jubilee bracelet. Okay, I like that one as well. Yeah. Yeah. It's basically something I, I should say when I grew up, I don't know, we were not, like, I didn't grow up poor or something, but, like, also, especially as a young adult, I couldn't afford anything. So now I'm very grateful for everything that's happened in my life. And, yeah, I want to enjoy it a little bit.

[Cody Rhodes]

So growing up, I say Vienna, Austria. Is that correct? In terms of what was there a specific suburb in Vienna, where were you were like your town? What is your town? Or is it Vienna?

[Gunther]

In Vienna, they number the districts. The city has 22, 23 districts. Yeah, they have a name, but usually when you talk about it all numbers. And I lived in the 11th district.

[Cody Rhodes]

Okay.

[Gunther]

Simmering. It's a very. It's a blue color part of town. Okay.

[Cody Rhodes]

I worry that they're numbering the districts. It's very Hunger Games. Okay, so you were in 11. Yes, you were in 11. What was WWE's presence like in Vienna as a kid in district number 11? Was it there at all?

[Gunther]

Yeah, on VHS. That's where it existed, basically. Yeah. When I grew up, like, the tournaments were still a thing. Like Autobahn's the. The tournaments.

[Cody Rhodes]

Oh, my gosh. Yeah.

[Gunther]

I think they ran till like 97 or 98.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Gunther]

In Vienna. And that was my first contact with it all. Because Otto Wanz is like in Austria. It's crazy. I mean, we're a small country.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Gunther]

But when you. And I don't know. How is it now? How it's now? Because it's. Yeah. Time moves on. But I remember that Hulk Hogan, Undertaker Auto once. That's like what people know about wrestling.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Gunther]

He was such a big figure and he was really good at promoting himself and promoting the sport and stuff. So that was my first contact. And that was. Yeah. And since then, I guess that that's where it's from. There was the whole ambiance with like. It was like an open air. It's like an ice skating spot. Yeah. So they ran the tournament in the summer and it was all open air, just a little roof over the ring and. Yeah. I still connect that very, very specific atmosphere about it.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Gunther]

I loved it back then, but that was the first time I got in touch with it. And then later on friends had like VHS about Wall street back then.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Gunther]

Like mid-90s. But it was kind of hard to get your hands on it, more or less.

[Cody Rhodes]

You're the first person who's come on the pod is talked about. Otto Vance.

[Gunther]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

And. And I feel like I only know the myth, the lore. I've heard fit talk about him. I've heard Mr. Regal talk about. That's a big chunk of. We don't get that in America. Not unlike. Very different, but not unlike. I didn't know anything about Big Daddy.

[Gunther]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

Next, you know, you know, Regal's telling me all about Big Daddy and I'm going down this rabbit hole. So different.

[Gunther]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

In terms of what you had, what age did you start training?

[Gunther]

I. 2005. So I think it was 17. Yeah. Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

And when you're 17 and you're looking at training to become a pro wrestler, did you have a goal? Did you have a thing you wanted

[Gunther]

to get to know? And that's like. I think something that a lot of the boys from over here don't understand is like all of this, that's not a realistic option. If you grow up as a young boy in Vienna. Okay. Because it's so far away.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Gunther]

And even if you think back, like wwe, like when did they really open up to the outside, like to the Indies and stuff like that? So now I just wanted to do it and started training and. Yeah. Just stuck to It. I was like, never. That's where I want to go. That's where I want to go. My. Over the years, my big goal became like, hey, I want to quit working a job and just do this as a profession. That was a big goal and that was unachieved. Like all of the older boys when I started were more or less leftovers from the Otto one's time. Yeah, they barely made it. Somehow like officially they made a living of it, but what living. So yeah, that was my big goal. I was like, hey, if I can turn this into a profession, then I'm already there would be a dream scenario. Like I never had that bright, that wide view on possibilities.

[Cody Rhodes]

So that's crazy to me. And never having the wide view. But also having talked to you a bunch of different times. You. You're frustratingly just. You say something like that. No. Wasn't sure what it would be. You're. You're frustratingly talented. I don't know. There are people who can let just get up and do this and then there's people who require all this prep and all this training and all these voices around them. Like my need a Michael Hayes, I need a Paul Heyman. I need them all around me. What are we doing? And you just breeze right through. Like. Can I ask you just. I don't think I've ever asked anyone this question on podcast, but just ask you. Do you think you're the best wrestler in the world?

[Gunther]

See, I don't think about that. I don't know. I don't. No.

[Cody Rhodes]

But if you had to really look at it. If I'm just not even a contentious competitive quad. Just if you think looking at the entire. What you know of that's out there, what's on the independent scene, what's elsewhere and what's here. Do you think you're the best wrestler in the world?

[Gunther]

At least one of. It's. It's hard to say.

[Cody Rhodes]

At least one of us. I mean.

[Gunther]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

Being in the discussion for it.

[Gunther]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

Is. Is. I think it's terrifying in that sense in. In terms of. I would tell you, you're definitely in the discussion.

[Gunther]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

And I think that's. That's exactly why you were the man in the. In the spot against John Cena. But just the idea that you're not really thinking of it for the. You're not. You don't have the wide view. Do you think you have a wide view now? Do you. Do you know now taking what you've done. World champion, intercontinental champion for an Absurd amount of time.

[Gunther]

Just.

[Cody Rhodes]

Are you gonna take what you've done now?

[Gunther]

What.

[Cody Rhodes]

What's the plan? Do you have a goal? What's. You mentioned you get bored real quick.

[Gunther]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

So not looking for a spoiler here or anything of that nature, but is there another goal, another mountain to climb? There has to be.

[Gunther]

Yeah, but not in sense of like I never had like that list or that's. That's what I want to achieve. I want to win this. Yeah, it's more like, I don't know, I always kind of like want to grow in the responsibility I can take on. Yeah, that makes sense.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yes.

[Gunther]

Like that's what kind of like drives me where it's like, okay, I'm mastered like this. Very difficult situations. Okay. Now I can master something even more difficult. I see it kind of like in that sense and I guess in our world that combines. Yeah. That com. Like that automatically means like titles, big matches and all of that. But yeah, I think I've literally done it all the year. I don't know that's. I've just enjoy it like I always wanted to do it and once I get out there, that's where. Yeah, I love it. It's like. It is. I think I never had a match my whole career where I went like, I'm not. I felt like before, like, you know, I'm not feeling it today, but once I'm in the ring it's like, yeah, we're good. Like I'm. I'm having fun. What's home? Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

John Cena, when he came on the podcast, referred to your respect for the ring and the sacred, the mat and what it is and the juxtaposition of styles. Here's a random. Just something that has me thinking because I know there's people in your life, but do you. Are you running a one man show here? Just a run a one man wrecking crew or do you have a circle here at wwe? A crew that. That. That keeps you. Keeps. Keep. Keeps you from getting too far here, keeps you level.

[Gunther]

Do you have that in the company itself? Yeah, I think not really. No. I feel like if there's someone I talk to sometimes it's Heyman. He's good for. Yeah. Advice sometimes for certain situation and not just like whatever the daily work, like promos, whatever, but just like the overall. The big picture view the big picture. No otherwise. Yeah. Marcel obviously Kaiser, he's a. Yes. My best friend. So he's good.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Gunther]

That's giving me perspective. And otherwise. No, not really.

[Cody Rhodes]

I. Tons of respect. For Marcel. And did you guys come over together?

[Gunther]

No, he went earlier. Yeah. So that's the whole thing. We really just started getting. Yeah. Getting going with wxw. It really picked up. And then he got offered a deal and he was like, I gotta take it. And he wanted to say. Which I understand. And I was always the guy who was like, no, yeah, I understand, stay. Yeah, we go later. But I totally get his decision. Everything worked out for him. But yeah, he was maybe three years earlier than me. He came over. Yeah, he moved to Orlando, started in a PC. So he had to kind of like that was the thing for him because he came in before when you were already somebody on the indies. You could come into NXT and have a better position already.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Gunther]

And he came in shortly basically before that. Like the indies haven't really taken that much off in Europe and also the system was still a little bit different. So he had to. Yeah, he had to start from zero in NXT and just do that whole thing. So like he really swallowed his pride on that. And then I respect him for how he's done it because he was, he was already wrestling like I don't know, seven years, eight years when he, when he signed. So.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Gunther]

And then start from zero, like learn how to roll and learn how to take a good stuff. Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

Do you, do you see big things for him?

[Gunther]

For myself, yeah. 100. I think he's underratedly charismatic.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Gunther]

And he's a really good talker. Like he's. I always tell him it's like you need to go to Hollywood at some point because he's very good. He's got a, he's got something for the whole acting thing. Like I always tell him like I think he would have been a amazing like theater actor or something like that because yeah, he's very. He's very talented with languages too and stuff. So. Yeah, very, very, very talented person when it comes to the wrestling side. Yeah, of course. Like he's the, he might be the only European second generation guy right now. Is there another one? No, I don't think there's. There's another. Like what a. I love him. His son.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah, I just enjoy watching too. There's certain people that you don't have necessarily a relationship with or it's not an active dialogue, but you just kind of watch from afar and he's one. I always look around and it's a silly thing to ask myself, but I wonder, okay, if I was to run a company, if I ran a wrestling company, who would I. Who would I want? Who would I. Because it's actually less people than you think. You really. You don't need as many people as you think. You need really good ones. And he's just someone who's. He's taking what he has currently clearly running with it. But yeah, I was. I wanted to hear your perspective on him because I think. I think there's big stuff for him.

[Gunther]

Yeah, I think so too. And it's like. That's like the trickiest part sometimes when you're like really good friends, but you're kind of like in different positions.

[Cody Rhodes]

Oh, my gosh.

[Gunther]

Because out of my perspective, it's like super hard to be like, I'm the guy who skipped all of the system and who skipped all of that.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Gunther]

Wait it out. It's going to come. So it's kind of like, who am I to tell him, like, going to come, my friend. You know, it's like the difficult situation. But he's very good with me sometimes to keep me grounded.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah, you need that.

[Gunther]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

That's why I was asking. I was like, there's got to be someone in his circle that, that, that keeps it. And it's not always keeping. Sometimes it's actually gassing you up.

[Gunther]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

Sometimes you need like. I. I think lately I've liked a crew around me. That's. Tell me something nice.

[Gunther]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

You know what I'm saying? I'm already beating myself half to death here. Tell me something good.

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[Cody Rhodes]

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[Cody Rhodes]

You mentioned skipping the system, which is something crazy. It's not in the case. I did not realize you were not NXT champion. It just felt like you would have been NXT champion.

[Gunther]

No, I've only been there for two months.

[Cody Rhodes]

You just passed right through.

[Gunther]

Yeah, when, when I moved over to the States, it was in January and then I did nxt. Yeah. For. Until Mania. There was the. That mania. You returned in Dallas and then I started the week after.

[Cody Rhodes]

I. I want to ask you about. About moving over, but I also the my knowledge of you. I know that you were PWG's champion at one point. Yeah, I, I've. We've had a lot of people on here who did stuff at pwg. What was your experience like? As serious as you take wrestling and as sacred as the mat is in terms of pwg. I mean PWG also treated certain matches. It was a sacred ground, the wrestling part of it. What was your experience like that being. I don't know how much of America you knew at the time.

[Gunther]

Yeah, not so much, to be honest. A little bit. But it was definitely my first California experience, more or less.

[Cody Rhodes]

So it was Venice Golds and all that.

[Gunther]

Yeah, yeah, of course, of course.

[Cody Rhodes]

I always, you know, it's a boys. It's always, you see like the international talent, they still check all the. Hey, we're at Venice Golds. They still do all the things and I love that. Okay.

[Gunther]

To be honest, like Venice Gold's Gym is like the only thing I ever did like in Los Angeles, like sightseeing wise. I think I've never been in Hollywood either. Like I never went but it was like. Yeah, Pug, the things. Like it was cool because it felt like a little bit of an adventure too because you go to that hotel there, whatever they had. Yeah. At the airport. Then the van picks you up, you go to that. Whatever. I don't even know what the place was in recent.

[Cody Rhodes]

What was that famous?

[Gunther]

It was some. What do you call them, armory or something. No, it's not an armory.

[Cody Rhodes]

No, it was, it was a club. Like a. We'll figure it out. But it's, it's demolished, it's non existent.

[Gunther]

Yeah, I think, I think, I think, I think it's gone now.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Gunther]

And yeah, just felt like a big adventure. So I liked it. And yeah, wrestling wise, it Was. Yeah, it was fantastic for me. I was surprised. I kind of, like, Super Dragon was like, really? Yeah. He was really excited about me coming and stuff. Because all this stuff I always saw, I was always kind of like, oh, my gosh. Yeah, what is this?

[Cody Rhodes]

Sure.

[Gunther]

Because you just see the worst of it often. Of course, I only remember the year I came. I've been told I'm gonna be part of that big ten man tag on the third day of bola where they do all the goofy stuff.

[Cody Rhodes]

All the goofy stuff's in that one.

[Gunther]

Yeah, I saw that. Did the duck walk together. And on the first day, I was like. I was asking, like, who's gonna be in that match? And then I got to them, I was like, none of that is gonna happen on Sunday. I say it already. I say it already. But no, otherwise it was great. We had a good. We had a good crew.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Gunther]

Group of good guys there, so. Always had a really good time there.

[Cody Rhodes]

I mentioned you're a lot of favorite wrestlers, favorite wrestler, and I give you an example. I've exaggerated the story for the purposes of my needs.

[Gunther]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

But I remember catering one time, I was. We were on a European tour, all of us, and we were doing really well. Great, great crowds. And I think I might have been wrestling solo. And I came in, and you and Sami Zayn, another wrestler's wrestler with his own unique personality. We were having a conversation and gently implied that my work was lazy. And. And I. I remember, like, making a joke about it and being like, ah. You know, like, I was letting everyone know, like, they're over here talking about me not putting in, like, not changing things up on a nightly basis. Do it. Rinse and repeat, whatever it may be. But there was a small shred of truth to it, and I thought, oh, well, you know, all right, Gunther's gonna be watching at the monitor. I will. I will. I will pull out a couple changes. And I think even that night that I did a. Change a bunch of stuff, I come back and you hadn't watched any of it. I'm like, we did a whole thing. We did, you know, But I really like that because I feel like that keeps you.

[Gunther]

There are.

[Cody Rhodes]

There are others like you as well that. That keeps you on your toe. Bret Hart.

[Gunther]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

Was like that when he would. When he would come back and watch us.

[Gunther]

You.

[Cody Rhodes]

You. The art of what we do, if you want to call it that, or the structure of what we do and the change and you being one to get bored. You know, I'm not doing the Same thing each night and. And changing it up. I appreciate having you in every locker room. You remember the Royal Rumble in San Antonio?

[Gunther]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yes. I remember it for a couple reasons. I was so excited a. To win it, but also I remember they did AI or. I don't even know if we would say AI Digital Pyro off the roof. That wasn't real. It's still one of it. It taints every time I've ever seen the clip of, like, oh, man, that was great. What a great moment. Then they show this outside shot that is just clearly. It looked like. Gosh, Maddie Cox put it together on it.

[Gunther]

The thing is, like, pyro doesn't hit if it doesn't make. Sounds right.

[Cody Rhodes]

That's the other thing there was.

[Gunther]

That's the.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah, that the. You need the mortars.

[Gunther]

Yes.

[Cody Rhodes]

You need the. You need. You need the mortars to go off. I believe. I don't know if it's on my sheet here. I believe you still hold the record, correct, for the longest in the Royal Rumble.

[Gunther]

Yeah, it was at that time. Yeah, for sure.

[Cody Rhodes]

Is it. Has it been broken?

[Gunther]

I don't think so.

[Cody Rhodes]

Then I was of the thought it. It couldn't be broken. And. And it was because we ended up doing a bit of a singles match.

[Gunther]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

Once I got in there, because I felt. I felt so strange. I'm coming out at the end and then.

[Gunther]

Yeah, see, I remember then that's. I kind of like how that. I feel like that record happened was that whole thing about us having a bunch of time at the.

[Progressive Insurance Announcer]

Yeah.

[Gunther]

Because that was my point the whole time because I was kind of like, still new and some guys told me it's like, it can't be too long.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Gunther]

I was like, he's your guy. He's the top guy returning. And he walks in in 30. He's got to overcome something, otherwise it's just handed. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean? So I'm glad we did it. And yeah, at the end, like, I, like, I never had like a record or something in my. Yeah. In my mind. They just told me when I came back.

[Cody Rhodes]

Well, I always. I'm curious where. I know someone right now is looking it up, but I'm curious because I always felt a little bit of pride in the fact that there was a discussion that day. Yes, you do hold the record. And I think you will hold the record for some time because there was a discussion that day on. I don't know, we could just get right to it. And it felt the same exact Way you did. No, we need to get in there. Yeah, we need. And I needed it. I was coming back from injury. I mean, I told people the first time you chopped me, my chest had been ruptured and destroyed and to come back and the first thing we do is get in there with someone who's chopping trees down with that and I, I came alive.

[Gunther]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

I need, I need my. And this. I know people watching may not understand or may even poke fun at the statement. I need my wrestling to be real.

[Gunther]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

Right. And that was one where I. There, there, there it was.

[Gunther]

And there is something to it because sometimes you're in there with guys where they don't really like. Come on, let's go. Yeah, you just whack him real good one time.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Gunther]

And they awake and then the match gets better. So sometimes that, that helps a lot.

[Cody Rhodes]

So you, you being someone known for, for the big chop, as you just, just pointed out, is there. Do you have a kind of a. You don't have to give me because it's the most annoying question wrestlers will ever get asked. But do you have a top two top three kind of guys who are throwing chops? Is there somebody you saw throwing chops that you thought I want? You know, I, I have a couple that are not here chop wise.

[Gunther]

I was a big kiboshi guy.

[Cody Rhodes]

Sure.

[Gunther]

So that's, I guess that's where I would say that's where it came from.

[Cody Rhodes]

Okay. I, I thought the. There's two guys who've chopped me like you chopped me, but not as good as you chop me. I'll just be straight. Your chop is the job. Chris Hero was one.

[Gunther]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

And then JT done.

[Gunther]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

And the, the, the only way I even at a wrestling school I could, I could learn, I could teach. You know, hey, if you don't have a good chop, go overhand, keep it above the nipple, whatever. Like I could, I could give some bit of a directive, but I remember explaining to people there's these knife edge chops that steamboat throwing that. It's more this big motion and it's powering through, but then there's these stoppers is what I call them, which Chris Hero was someone and you. The same thing where it's flat.

[Gunther]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

And it's bam. And it's right there and it stops you.

[Gunther]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

It's a, it's, it's an offensive move that's beyond like the, the sound.

[Gunther]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

There's a lot of actual.

[Gunther]

Ugh. Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

Behind that. Yeah.

[Gunther]

Those.

[Cody Rhodes]

Your chop, your chop definitely Has. Has woken me up.

[Gunther]

The thing is, like, with dropping people and stuff, I think what. Back then in Europe, often we wrestled in, like, I don't know, small gymnasiums. There's 100 people there. If you chop somebody real good and you get a good noise of it. Yeah. But that's more. Get more reaction for that than you get for a lot of the other things you do. Yeah. And, yeah, I'm very happy that. Yeah. Stuck. That I can. That still works here now, too, because obviously, in a bigger building, it's different, but yeah, it's. I always like to use very basic instruments.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Gunther]

Still try to achieve a big reaction. Ah.

[Cody Rhodes]

It's a really great, great way to put it. The basic. The basic instruments. Are you getting a lot of people? I don't know if you get this, but you've. You. You've done a ton of press. You're out there. You're. You're very much one of the faces of the company and always leading forward so well. Are you getting asked to chop people a lot?

[Gunther]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

And.

[Gunther]

But I never do it.

[Cody Rhodes]

Never do it. And why. Why do you never do it?

[Gunther]

Because I'm a professional and they're not.

[Cody Rhodes]

That's a great answer.

[Gunther]

As easy as it is. I always found it so weird that they were like. I've been on so many indie shows where wrestlers would be like, okay, $10 or 10 pounds, then I chop you. They would chop 50 people in a row and are happy to make a little bit of money off that. And I think that's just. You gotta draw a line there. Yeah. It's like, I'm not gonna. I don't know. I'm not gonna bust my ass in training and all of that for so many years to learn it. Right. Just to goof around with the fans afterwards.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Gunther]

I don't know. It just feels wrong.

[Cody Rhodes]

I was just curious of people because the other day, you know, sometimes you get that morning news guy or you get that media where they're. That' idea they had. That's the end.

[Progressive Insurance Announcer]

And it's.

[Cody Rhodes]

It becomes like. And then you got the WWE rep with you, of course. Who is. No, absolutely not. But then part of me is thinking, you know, it would just, let's pick this guy up, do an airplane spin, something. If that's all I can get out of this.

[Gunther]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

Oh, wow.

[Gunther]

No, I think we're a little bit. I think we moved on from that stuff a little bit where it's like,

[Cody Rhodes]

one of the reasons we moved on

[Gunther]

is because of people like, you yeah,

[Cody Rhodes]

you know, you, I'm sure you've heard this term before, but just old school, vaudeville style territory wrestling. The foreign menace.

[Gunther]

Yeah, right.

[Cody Rhodes]

You're not that.

[Gunther]

No, I'm not a foreign minister. I always get a little bit annoyed because. Yeah, they go like, oh, he's just a bad foreigner. I, I try to avoid everything that has to do with a flag or.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Gunther]

Something. I mean, they put it on my trunks when I started out. They really wanted to have the flag on my. Whatever. I got rid of it as soon as I could because it just doesn't do anything. It's not 1990 anymore. And I think today it's about the person.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah, you're the modern man, dude. Yeah, and, and, and the. In the modern. I, you know, not a lot of people will like this, you know, Gen X and they're a little bit more community sense. But the modern. I want a winner. This is a winner. I'm a winner. If you like it, you, you like it. If you don't, you don't. I mean, like your drink, you know, blood, sweat.

[Gunther]

I do like it. It's almost done.

[Cody Rhodes]

And causing tears. Yeah. Again, brought to our. Brought to us here by Wheatley American Vodka. Yeah, no, the. You don't check. I think for years. For years. And I had actually heard my dad and other promoters talk about this for years. That's what they were really looking for.

[Gunther]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

Is not a stereotypical, not a generalization of what Americans don't know outside. They actually were looking for somebody who came in and was so sleek. So that, that's, that's the heat. Almost shouldn't be, but that's the heat. So educated.

[Gunther]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

So. So that, that, you know, to, to a degree, looking down, even if you're not, you know, there's this element like.

[Gunther]

Oh, I get what you mean. Yeah, no, no, I agree. And yeah, it's still, I gotta be honest. It's still. Yeah, sometimes it still sticks, that whole like Foreigner thing. But then on the other hand, it's a, it's very stereotypical and I think it's a little bit like. I guess it was more accurate like in the 80s or something like that. I feel like now America is such a diverse country and stuff like that. I don't know, depending where you're at. But yeah, we had a place up like in the Northeast a little bit or something. I barely met an American person there. There's. Yeah. Always somebody from somewhere else. Yeah, it's such a diverse place. I think it doesn't matter where you're born in the world. Home will always be home.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Gunther]

And nothing will ever be able to replace that. It does not matter. Even if you come up in a country that's poor and you didn't have a good upbringing or something, that feeling of home, nothing can replace that.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah. Speak. Well, speaking of home, we WWE goes to, you know, Vienna. Do you enjoy those shows when you get to go home?

[Gunther]

Oh, yeah, that's great. Especially Vienna. I was so proud last time, actually, because we doubled the house almost from, like, the one live show to the other. Yeah. I was really happy about that. We had the. Was sold out.

[Cody Rhodes]

How do you say it? One more day.

[Gunther]

The Vienna City Hall. Okay. Was sold out. I was really happy about that. So. Yeah, that's cool. Coming out there, because that was also something was like. I always kind of, like, not a goal, but I always, like, dreamed about it, like, one day you're gonna have a match in that venue. And I didn't put it on, like, for who or. But one day you're gonna wrestle in there.

[Cody Rhodes]

That's a goal. Yeah.

[Gunther]

I always thought so. No, going to Vienna is really cool. And it's so. Austria is so funny because it's. It's a bit behind. And there was that one. The one reporter from. That one from the big newspaper they have there, and he was already writing about Otto. Like, he worked there for 35 years or something like that. So he was all excited. And he always called me up and be like, anything new? Can we do something? And when are you coming again? And they would always write big stuff about it. It was so cool because the style it was written was still, like. He would still use, like, old terms. Yeah, certain stuff. Yeah. Vienna's. Austria is old school. It's. It's. It's a bit.

[Cody Rhodes]

It's a very. So my. My discovery. I went to. I went to Vienna. We WWE did a tour, and I was wrestling. I was tagging with Bob Holly, and I. It was part of a big tour where I really was so naive to the rest of the world. One of the greatest gifts of my life was WWE sending us everywhere we could so I could learn.

[Gunther]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

About all these places. The best I could. I could see them. I could understand a bit more. But that. What surprised me is I had been told German crowds in Germany were going to be a little bit more subdued, a little bit harder to bring out of their shells. I don't know if you know that story. Marcel's grandma. I tried to make laugh for, like, 15 minutes in a match with the Miz.

[Gunther]

Oh, it didn't work.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah. I don't think I got one smile, but I'd heard it was similar. And then I remember going to Vienna and the place wasn't. They were loud.

[Gunther]

Yeah. It's a bit different.

[Cody Rhodes]

They were. They were really, really enthusiastic. I actually specifically remember Umaga and maybe because. Because even then we were trying to figure out is there like an auto. The big, you know, the big barrel chested type, type intimidating force that he was. But he had tagged in. He was doing a match with Snitsky. He had tagged in. He was a bad guy. Crowd went nuts.

[Gunther]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

So they did the right thing. Snitsky tagged himself back in. Boo. Umaga tagged himself back in. Yeah. And they just worked and they worked and I think they went home.

[Gunther]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

They were wrestling like London and Kendrick or something. They went home. But I just remember watching that and,

[WWE 2K26 Announcer]

and thinking, this crowd is awesome.

[Cody Rhodes]

It's one of my absolute favorite, favorite, favorite crowds.

[Gunther]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

And that building, it's always that same building, right?

[Gunther]

Yeah. They usually go there. And it is true because we are very culturally, we are very, very close to Germans.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Gunther]

But also we have that Eastern European influence which is already more lively. Yeah. Also you have the south, like Austria is basically like in the. It's that transitioning country from like Germany to Southern and Eastern Europe.

[Cody Rhodes]

Sure.

[Gunther]

So you catch a lot of that culture tune that's definitely more. A little bit more passionate and stuff. It's also something. I lived in Germany for a long time and people there more like save your money and a little bit more stingy about stuff. And it's harder for them to have a good time. I think while, yeah, Austrians, it's like you go out, you have a good time. That doesn't matter what you do or how much money you have available. There's still. You're still going to spend a little bit of it to go out and. Right. Have a good time. There's also like, still. It's old school. There's no such thing as like, let's meet up for a coffee with your friend. No, we're going to meet up for a couple of beers and.

[Cody Rhodes]

Sure. Yeah. Yeah.

[Gunther]

None of that. It's. Yeah, I love it. I love going back and maybe it doesn't happen often. Maybe once or twice a year.

[WWE 2K26 Announcer]

The throwdowns are on and WWE merch at fanatics is 30% off with pays. A fast online checkout offered by banks and credit unions. Snag Cody Rhodes T shirts, title belts, snapback jackets. Or swag from more of your favorite stars. All 30% off with Payze. Your actual card numbers aren't shared with merchants, so you can checkout with added security and rock your fandom like a champ. Use Payze with code PAYZPERKS for 30% off at Fanatics until March 31, 2026. Terms [e-mail] PayzPRromo

[Gunther]

I was.

[Cody Rhodes]

I was thinking this on the way here because I've been really happy and I hope you don't mind that me sharing this and if you do, totally.

[Gunther]

Okay. Of course.

[Cody Rhodes]

I was really always happy that every now and then you would come to me with a question, and I thought, I can help. That's a question that I. I can help. You'd ask. And it was never about wrestling. There's a question about WWE in question, about the. The corporate ladder, the talent ladder, all the things. And I always was really proud or at least would try my best. I have the experience. I can help him with that question. But the. Excuse me. The thing I was thinking about was in terms of you here, is there someone in your life or someone in your career that you look up to? Because I feel like so many people look up to you. And I feel like so many people also just look at you and assume very much his own.

[Gunther]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

And I. And I wonder, is there someone who's. Who's been a guiding light for you or just a motivating factor? Doesn't have to be a wrestler? I don't know. You know, family, whatever it may be. I was curious just on the. Who does. Who do you go to? In. In. In your moments, or not even. Who do you go to? Who do you look to?

[Gunther]

Well, looked. It's a good question, actually, because I don't really have, like. I had, like, mentors along the way, I would say. But right now, like, in the last. I don't know, I guess, like 10 years almost already. Not really. I don't know. I try to figure out things myself. But yeah, I definitely had, like, funny enough, like, one of the people that kind of, like, shaped me the most was just my boss at a logistics job I had at some point.

[Cody Rhodes]

Okay.

[Gunther]

Like, a very smart guy.

[Cody Rhodes]

What's his name?

[Gunther]

Yeah, his name.

[Cody Rhodes]

And this was at a logistics job.

[Gunther]

Yeah. Okay. And here I did. I didn't have, like, a very tight, like, relationship with him, but there was a few times I went to him and he really helped me out and gave good advice and a lot of that. Yes. That applies to everything in life. Sometimes Special. And I feel like. Because I was like, in a. Not like in a managing job, it was lower tier, but I had, like, responsibility of a few people and stuff like that. And I feel like a lot of stuff when it comes, like, to responsibility and dealing with people, all of that applies in wrestling as well. Even though it's a different setup. So that helps a lot. But I think right now it's mostly like my. Yeah, it's either. I talked to either Marcel or my wife.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Gunther]

Like, those are the two that I converse the most with.

[Cody Rhodes]

Does she love what you do?

[Gunther]

Yeah, she. I mean, she wrestled herself, so. And she had to stop. So she's kind of like. I feel like a lot of people could turn bitter on it, but she doesn't.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Gunther]

And, yeah, we're in a different stage in our life too and everything, but she loves it. For me, it's kind of like I'm a very blessed person because I know sometimes the guys, it's hard with their other half at home, with the travel and being away. And I have, yeah, I'm. I don't have that issue. Like, yeah, she even, like, right now, I'm not seeing them for a month because they're still in England. But it's never a headache or something. All I hear is, like, support and, yeah, go get it, and all of that. So that's a, that's a very important factor, by the way.

[Cody Rhodes]

Oh, my gosh.

[Gunther]

If the home is not a supportive environment, then yeah. Yeah. That anchors you a lot. So that, that's a big game changer for me.

[Cody Rhodes]

I don't know if these two relate, but we. Maybe they do, maybe they don't. But one of the things that the world saw, which I'm glad you enjoyed, Blood, sweat and causing tears.

[Gunther]

Can we order one more here?

[Cody Rhodes]

We can absolutely order you one more. Yes. It's. It's inbound.

[Gunther]

Thank you.

[Cody Rhodes]

I, I, the world saw the physical transformation that you went through.

[Gunther]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

And I had seen all facets to you because I actually watched you wrestle live on a show. But, like, I, I'd. I had seen what you were doing overseas. Yeah. WXW, which I always love. WXW let WWE use the footage from 16 Karat. Or it was 16 Karat. Yeah. Like the. For me, for my documentary, because they were an incredible crowd.

[Gunther]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

And I, again, didn't know what I was walking into with that. They were just an incredible crowd. That's the first time I ever crowd surfed. And it's the first time I ever realized, oh, you can do this.

[Gunther]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

Like, if you give them enough of an iggy, they will actually get you all the way back to the ring. One of my absolute favorite moments. But again, we all watch this physical transformation, which I believe is 65 pounds. You're 65 pounds heavier.

[Gunther]

It could be. I'm really bad with numbers if, you know.

[WWE 2K26 Announcer]

No, it's just.

[Cody Rhodes]

It's just.

[Gunther]

It's tough. Yeah, I think it must have been around. I'm now two between 230 and 240 all the time. And I was. Yeah, I was 300 easily at the highest. So.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah, and. And, you know, I always, I'm real. I'm real petty and real judgy when we're on the road. And if I go to the gym, you know, there's always a local gym that somebody provides the boys.

[Gunther]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

If I'm in there and I don't see anybody, I'm thinking, what's going on? Where's the rest? Where are the rest? You know, where are they? Front breaker's always in there. So I always tell them, you know, La Knight's always in there. You're another one. You're always you. And Marcel, there's always like an effort to be the healthiest, be the most fit. Because today, productivity wise, in the ring, we have to be.

[Gunther]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

Can't pick somebody up. You can't catch Javon flying 90ft in the air. You can't do any of that unless you actually have the base and the skills. But was there a reason for this turnaround? Because so many people, I'm sure you've heard, they wax poetic about past and the lore of people before they came up, or did you see such and such before? He was even better. She was even better. What was your reason for it?

[Gunther]

I thought, yeah, you know what? It's. You go on television now, it's like, I think it's the right thing to do. Yeah, it's about time. And just for me is like. Because I always. I always felt great. I always. Yeah. In the ring also, I moved well and stamina was nomination. So I felt good. But it was like, you know what? It's. It's going to be overall the better decision to do that. So that was basically the driving factor. And then obviously I had the guys around back then and they pushed me, too. And Marcel was actually doing it first. He was like, in. Because he would. That's the thing. Marcel is like a body type that he really had. If he wants to get big, it's a Struggle for him. Like, he has to really, really want it. So if he just eats normally, he will rather lose weight than gain weight.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Gunther]

And he just had like a few. A long time behind him where he managed to break through a threshold of like being comfortable eating more. So he was a little bit like, he was big, but he wasn't really defined that. I actually told him, it's like, hey, if you do it, I. You would be so ripped and it would look even bigger. And then he did it and I was like. And he was then kind of like, man, I think maybe you should do. And yeah, yeah, you're right. So that's how it all happened. But it was a. The thing is, like, it's a bit of a slippery slope sometimes because it's a big factor for us, like to be in shape and it's a big factor, but it's like, also, we're not bodybuilders and it's such a. It's so hard to judge yourself, like, where your sweet spot is.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Gunther]

Because when you look yourself in the mirror, it's always like, oh, yeah, and I should, I should do more. Well, objectively. Everybody else tells you, no, no, it's.

[Cody Rhodes]

You look great, great.

[Gunther]

What are you doing? Right. So that's like the downside of that a little bit. Because once you're really in that. Because when you do, you know yourself, if you do like a real strict diet and stuff for a few months, you're really like, in the, like, you have tunnel vision. Basically. It's everything. You got to adapt your whole day to just, I don't know, get my five meals and get my training in and all that stuff.

[Cody Rhodes]

The guys out there by the ring with their meal prep. Yeah, yeah. You know.

[Gunther]

Yeah, yeah. I did the same. I was brought my. Yeah, ready to cook meal. It's miserable. It's not a nice.

[Cody Rhodes]

Now you can feel someone's frustration just carrying around some Tupperware.

[Gunther]

Yeah, yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

Or the big, you know, amino bottle or whatever the heck they have. Yeah. But it's just, it's a lot of the success, successful guys.

[Gunther]

Oh, yeah, I know what's going on. The things like the results are great,

[Cody Rhodes]

but you can bring that in. He got a new but.

[Gunther]

But it's also, for us, it's almost like unrealistic because even like the best bodybuilding in the world gets in shape once a year.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah, yeah.

[Gunther]

But our, our thing is we got to be in shape all year round. Yeah, yeah. That's just factually not realistic. That's crazy. That is not possible.

[Cody Rhodes]

Oh man. It's so funny too. When people will be. Who are outside my world, be like, you got a show this weekend? And I always inside just groan.

[Gunther]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

Like there's a show every weekend.

[Gunther]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

The show. Every. It's this, it's every Monday, it's every. Yeah. And find, like you said, the sweet spot.

[Gunther]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

I've. I found that because thinking about your physical transformation, I do. I do think there's something to be said for when you see it. When you see someone change, you know that they can do the work.

[Gunther]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

I don't know if why they did it. I don't know what the purpose. But WWE recently did the WWE ID program. Right. And they made the Nightmare Factory one of the schools and ID program. There's so many kids who had a lot of experience that I suggested maybe him, maybe her. The one that interests them. A guy named Mike Cunningham who got the WWE ID deal and does evolve. I think outside of being talented, coachable has an it factor to him and just a good pick. I actually think the thing that they looked at was the fact that he got in great shape.

[Gunther]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

He said, okay, bet. And got in great shape. And that is just an old school way of when you see someone dialed in.

[Gunther]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

When you see someone locked in, like, oh, they're. They're going for it.

[Gunther]

But it is a little bit. It's like it can be a deciding factor, but it's not automatically. Because that's. No, because that's because if you say if there's a group of three, let's say. And they're all equally talented but only one is in shape, the one who's in shape will be the one who gets the chance. Sure. But if you. Yeah. Don't have certain things. It doesn't matter how good in shape you are. It's going to get you where you want to get to. Yeah. So it's. It's important. But then on the other hand, it's not the main thing.

[Cody Rhodes]

No, not at all. But I'm almost. You would hate this and you would hate working with them, but I'm almost looking for us to just get some jacked up bodybuilder dudes again. You know, like real 90s, like. Like ones that all the boys can't stand.

[Gunther]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

Just somebody like look at the. Look, look at that. And then we all have to figure out how to. How to do it. Because that. That is. Now I would say hopefully you're not thinking of someone. I'd say it's missing.

[Gunther]

Yeah, that.

[Cody Rhodes]

The old. Just the legit bodybuilder type like look. He looks great.

[Gunther]

Yeah. I mean, it's all wellness policy. That's won't happen.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah, no, it won't happen. Yeah, no, that is. Yeah, that's bodybuilders.

[Gunther]

You gotta get a natural bodybuilder. But they're not that big. So that's the.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah, no, I heard this term the other day and I hated it because I always. I use the same. There's like two pictures I look at in the physical. I want to get shredded by X. I want to be. One is Triple H at WrestleMania 18, which is just absurd. And then the other is Stallone from three where his face is like so you can see his cheekbones. But yeah, I heard this term the other day somebody was describing how at WWE you're. You may not be in shape, but everyone who is in shape just has an athletic build. Yeah, I hate the term athletic build.

[Gunther]

There's something to it.

[Cody Rhodes]

It is. No, it is. But I'm like, man, I just want. I don't know. I know, I know it's not gonna happen, but I just want one bodybuilder back in the mix. Just one full blooded terrace peck.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Yeah.

[WWE 2K26 Announcer]

Really?

[Cody Rhodes]

Exactly.

[Gunther]

Like.

[Cody Rhodes]

Well, that's also the thing. You look at him, you're like, brother's gonna tear his triceps just getting in the ring.

[Gunther]

Oh my God.

[Cody Rhodes]

Like, like brother's gonna. Yeah, so. No. Yeah, we don't have those anymore. But do we. Am I missing. Is there one out there?

[Gunther]

No.

[Cody Rhodes]

The bodybuilders, they're dinosaurs.

[Gunther]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

They went away.

[Gunther]

It's true.

[Cody Rhodes]

Asteroid hit the earth, but it's like

[Gunther]

also like, I think what we do now, the style has changed so much. It's like you got to be mobile and you got to be agile and you got to be able to. Yeah. Move.

[Cody Rhodes]

Just be an athlete.

[Gunther]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

And then you get these, you know, the nil and the super athletic kids that in Excel.

[Gunther]

Yeah, that's crazy, man. Yeah, so that's. But that's also something. It's like whatever you do as a kid, when you start out sports wise, like that kind of like build or what, that. That's going to stick with you for the rest of your life. Yeah. So. Yeah, it's unfair. They're all coming in.

[Cody Rhodes]

When you were a youngster, did you play any sports?

[Gunther]

Yeah, Football. Yeah. Soccer.

[Cody Rhodes]

Soccer.

[Gunther]

And I was a goalkeeper for. I don't think I started with 6 years old until I was 16 or something. Yeah, that was My big passion first, like, obviously, football in Europe, that's the sport. Yeah. My mom was actually. She played herself and she's a coach now for. She's.

[Cody Rhodes]

No way.

[Gunther]

Yeah. She's got the A girls team. Like. Yeah, it's team.

[Cody Rhodes]

And what does Mama Gunther think of all this?

[Gunther]

Yeah, they're very happy now.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Gunther]

At the beginning, they were a bit concerned.

[Cody Rhodes]

Well, grandparents too, you know, like.

[Gunther]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, that's grand. Grandparents can't grasp it. It's like. Yeah. I was literally visiting my grandmother from the father's side when I was in Austria. Before I came back, we were in Vienna. And she still to this day, because she grew up with the family business and, yeah, that's the one line to go professional. And nothing else is going to work out. And she still asks me, like, so once you stop, how are you going to make money? How are you going to.

[Cody Rhodes]

It's the best. Yeah.

[Gunther]

At my wedding, like, we had a very nice wedding. She and I got married at the Four Seasons in London and stuff. And they judged you and. No, she was like, did you win in the lottery or something?

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah, yeah.

[Gunther]

Like, how is this. I mean, I know you don't have a real job, but how did that happen? So you can't really explain it. Right.

[Cody Rhodes]

I brought my mom to Cardiff and I was like, I'm gonna have her travel. Like, I travel and I really want this for her. And it was all the, you know, we did, like, the Windsor Suite coming into London. A couple privates. Not just. We did a plane that was not just business and economy, but had a first put her in first. She got her pajamas, all the nonsense. And I thought she was having the time of her life. This is my mom. I'm, of course, gonna break the bank for my mother. Like, this is. This is how we do it.

[Gunther]

This is it.

[Cody Rhodes]

The greeters at every airport, she was just in her element. But then immediately when she came back, you know how parents are and, like, grandparents are. Immediately, she told my sister and she told Brandy. She's like, I'm worried. You know, I think he's spending all the money. And just the way she said it, like, that was for you. Yeah, that was for you.

[Gunther]

But that speaks for your mom, because you rather says, save it up for yourself, son.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah, but it's. It is a different. Like you were saying, like, even though you don't have a real job, it's so different now.

[Gunther]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

And it's. It the amount of, you know, the three Rs that you know, Nick Khan always talks about the ratings, the relevancy and the revenue. Just the industry. We had Timothy Chalamet on here talking about becoming pop culture, and it really is. I mean, you're in the ring, John Cena, you're having this match. ESPN Live updates.

[Gunther]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

And not live updates. That felt out of place. Yeah, Live updates. Just genuinely where we are in the match. That is a feather in the cap to you. A feather in the cap to John. A feather in the cap to every wrestler who helped start to lay that framework. I don't know if you remember Undertaker, Netflix premiere. Just wanted to talk to the whole group.

[Gunther]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

And I don't know if they had the whole group fully grasped. He was saying this was all we ever wanted, guys. The biggest audience you could possibly get is sitting out there for you. This is all we've ever wanted.

[Gunther]

No, for sure, yeah.

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[Gunther]

Just wanted to point something out. Left my mind.

[Cody Rhodes]

No, it's all right. I was gonna say, speaking of just the rest, the type of wrestler you are, we always. Ben Brown always will curate a bit of the. The warehouse here for of course, behind you. You don't see it, but there's John Cena's Turn around. Never give up shoe.

[Gunther]

It just says give up. Very good.

[Cody Rhodes]

It. Yeah.

[Gunther]

Very accurate.

[Cody Rhodes]

It just says give up.

[Gunther]

Somebody paid attention to the details yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

There's a Greco Roman statue for your, your, your purist style. But then over here we, we put handsome Harley Races T shirt type row. Nice Kowalski. I think the dusty boots are always there. The Kowalski robe. Because that's somebody that you have been compared to here amongst Walt.

[Gunther]

Yeah. Fellow Walter.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Gunther]

Walter Kowalski.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah. Did you, have you had any interaction with him?

[Gunther]

No.

[Cody Rhodes]

Never.

[Gunther]

Never. No.

[Cody Rhodes]

And really it's just big, big, tall. I think the work is probably considerably different.

[Gunther]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

In terms of, you know, what you have to do.

[Gunther]

Different time.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah. Who, who's somebody you mentioned Otto, of course. And you're talking about. I, I feel like it's going to be a different answer. It's going to subvert my expectations on what I'm asking. But was there a wrestler that you wanted to be like or are looked up to or idolized?

[Gunther]

Yeah. If I pick one out, it's Stan Hansen.

[Cody Rhodes]

Stan Hansen.

[Gunther]

Yes.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yes. Okay.

[Gunther]

The man. Yeah. Absolute machine.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Gunther]

Like a unlimited gas tank. It always felt like what guy was.

[Cody Rhodes]

Well, what era? Hanson. Japan.

[Gunther]

Yeah, of course.

[Cody Rhodes]

Oh my gosh.

[Gunther]

I only watched hands in Japan.

[Cody Rhodes]

So, so good.

[Gunther]

That's him. Yeah. Really good. I think that's where kind of like. Because he was like the disruptor, right? Like.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yes.

[Gunther]

Like in Japan, everyone just walks calmly to the ring. And him and Brody as well. They would come. Yeah. Swing whatever they got and create chaos and. Yeah. Maybe that's where the whole inspiration came from. Like you got to be. Yeah. Disrupt a little bit.

[Cody Rhodes]

I, I, there's. I re. The reason I asked about Hanson era. Hanson throughout Japan is unbelievable. And like you said, unlimited gas tank. Just a machine.

[Gunther]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

And in there with other machines. But there's also that era of Hanson where he's wrestling Bruno.

[Gunther]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

And this an era that I don't think like the longer hair Hansen that.

[Gunther]

Yes.

[Cody Rhodes]

It's fun to see because he had that as a base. The ability to bump around and move around and do things. He had that as a base. As he moves forward into his career in Japan. One of the. Just when he went into the hall of Fame, I was very, very excited.

[Gunther]

Oh, me too. I remember that. Actually it was really cool that they did it. But obviously it's like in the WB picture, he's not the most known guy. Yeah. But also when they had like Inoki inducted, I was like, oh, that's so cool.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah. I, when I met him, no key. I was probably seven, eight, I'm not sure. But the way I was explained to say hello to Anoki and I was Taught. You would have thought I was meeting a foreign dignitary. Yeah, it was a government type. Just because of the respect and. And just. Yeah. Anoki's another great hall of famer.

[Gunther]

Funny side note, actually, he's the guy that brought Tabasco to Japan.

[Cody Rhodes]

The hot sauce.

[Gunther]

Yes.

[Cody Rhodes]

Okay, well, walk me through that.

[Gunther]

Oh, yeah, maybe it's not true, but

[Cody Rhodes]

I think this is real. It's real now, but everybody.

[Gunther]

I've been. I've been told that everybody says that apparently he was the one that got Tabasco to Japan.

[Cody Rhodes]

Once he comes to the States because

[Gunther]

he went to Mexico, gets Tabasco and then from the States or whatever.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah. And then says we have to have it.

[Gunther]

No, I guess it's Was to make money and just.

[Cody Rhodes]

Oh, my gosh. I believe this.

[Gunther]

Actually selling it to everyone.

[Cody Rhodes]

I mean, that era, too, of carney, even when you're not car. We're gonna say we got. We're gonna sell this over.

[Gunther]

Gotta have a little side hustle.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Gunther]

But if anybody watches that, I guess maybe they can correct me. But I've heard that story numerous times from different people, so.

[Cody Rhodes]

So Tabasco, pro wrestling, you know, they're. They should be grateful to the squared circle for. For a noki. I mean, he. I mean, government Senate, I believe, in Japan. Yeah, he was, he was, he was,

[Gunther]

he was in politics.

[Cody Rhodes]

Genuinely in politics. And then the great videos that are,

[Gunther]

you know, you're not going to be the first one when you run for senator.

[Cody Rhodes]

I do have it on my. It is on my wish list of things. I'll look at a Nokia and see.

[Gunther]

I can see that. I told you that before.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Gunther]

I said, you're going to be the senator of Georgia.

[Cody Rhodes]

I would love it. I would love it. Georgia has a couple seats that kind of come up and I always look at it and think, ah, you know,

[Gunther]

I mean, you can do. You can do it after or something. But it's also very. I think politics has a very bad image for, I guess, good reasons too. But it's also absolutely necessary that people that. Yeah, yeah. Already achieved something and decide to be like, hey, I want to service the community. At the end of the day, that's

[Cody Rhodes]

really what it all should be.

[Gunther]

Yeah. And I think the wrestling world will prepare you well because I guess the politician. What you can expect is you're gonna be. Yeah. Hated by everybody. Everybody will have something to say about you.

[Cody Rhodes]

Roman Reigns called me up a politician one time, and I remember thinking, I'm not mad at that. You know, like, I have. I grew up in the business.

[Gunther]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

Everyone is in. In to a degree. But to me there's politics, there's posturing and then there's snaking and backstabbing and like one of the great things about you as a. As a peer and a wrestler and someone in the locker room, just straight up, it's. And I think. I think a lot of guys in our modern roster are straight up.

[Gunther]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

This is what I think is better.

[Gunther]

I agree.

[Cody Rhodes]

This is what I think isn't. Let's talk about it. Someone's making a decision, then we'll. But the opinion's been weighed.

[Gunther]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

Right. You know, because you can smell when you get around the ones today that are like, this is going to be really good for you. And you can already tell, like, no, it's not. Yeah, I can tell. This isn't even for me. Like.

[Gunther]

Yeah, no, I agree to that. It's. But also, like you said it like it. It's a cultural thing a little bit too. At least for me. It's like I'm. I grew up with. If nothing said is good. Yeah. You only told bad things. Yeah. That's how I grew up. So I still struggle with like, I don't know. That's why I'm not as good as maybe sometimes being complimentary.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Gunther]

Or something like that. Also receiving it. And I think. But being. Also the. The upside of that being straightforward is. Yeah. Is. Is good because it gets you where you want to go quicker if you like. But also on the other hand, I had my experiences over here too with. Maybe it was too. Too direct. I don't know.

[Cody Rhodes]

No, I think you're.

[Gunther]

Maybe that was too.

[Cody Rhodes]

Maybe. Maybe. But I still think you're so much better being direct. And I tell the kids at the school all the time, every day is a little battle. There's something that's against you every day. Small thing. It could be the smallest of thing. The order of entrances. Yeah.

[Gunther]

Yeah. For sure.

[Cody Rhodes]

All you gotta do is weigh your opinion. Someone else is making the call.

[Gunther]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

Someone else is going to make the call. But if you weigh your opinion, it's far better than if you're stewing and getting angry about it.

[Gunther]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

As you go. And then you build it up, you know, you know all that.

[Gunther]

I. I agree with that. But touching back on being complimentary. I want to put some. I want to put you over something because you came to WXW back then, right?

[Cody Rhodes]

I did.

[Gunther]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

We went to tournament.

[Gunther]

We were in the phase of like. Like, we really wanted to get to a place like we. And I think when you came, we were like, we were running close to 100 shows a year and, Yeah. A few people employed and stuff like that, and we wanted to. Yeah. Refine everything we did. And maybe you remember that I pulled you aside and asked you, like, hey, explain to me.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Gunther]

How does this work with, like, how does this work? Yeah, this work in wwe. And you gave me the whole rundown. Okay. Of everything, which.

[Cody Rhodes]

And I was away from WWE at the time.

[Gunther]

Yeah. Yeah, you were there and stuff, but you had way more experience than any of us over there. And. Yeah, I was very grateful for that back then because that wasn't the, that wasn't the norm with the guys that, back then that came over. Yeah. So I just wanted to get this out.

[Cody Rhodes]

No, thank you. Thank you. I, I, I felt like people perhaps would expect me to have a negative slant on WWE during that period. And a lot of the people I would talk to were going, yeah, so I'd give them the full no, hey, this is great. This. I had wrestled Drew McIntyre his last match before he came back, and I remember that that was always something I was so glad to do because I was trying to do something completely different out on, on the independent scene for me. I was trying to find something different, build a brand, build something that was outside of any company almost. I needed that wwe. I mean, we're in the hallowed halls of the Warehouse, but it was the house that built me.

[Gunther]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

So all of these experiences were. I'm giving it to you from my perspective at wwe, good and bad. And now we work in the best, the best version of WWE that it's ever been.

[Gunther]

I agree to that.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Gunther]

I would say it's very.

[Cody Rhodes]

You got a complaint?

[Gunther]

No, no, I don't. I don't have any complaints.

[Cody Rhodes]

They're, they're, you can put them out here.

[Gunther]

You know, surprisingly, if I have a complaint, they know. Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

See.

[Gunther]

But I would say so. I feel like often, once you get used to something, you don't see it for what it is. But I think I just talked about this at some media thing I did. It's so how diverse the roster is right now, how many internationals they are, how many different styles of wrestlers they are on the roster and stuff. It's really. WWE always felt like very one direction.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Gunther]

Like that's the way to go. And now I think there's many ways to.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Gunther]

Where you, that you can go, where you can make it to the top.

[Cody Rhodes]

Well, speaking of the top and where you Go. The most important thing you said about where you're going, and I know I kind of asked you how you felt, and we even talked a little bit about what's next. And maybe you mentioned something growing into the position you have, but right now, the conversation in our industry, all of our industry is about you. Right now. You're. I had. He. I don't. I don't think he'll mind. I had Marty Miller from Production on my bus the other day having a libation or two, and he. Right in front of me and I'm on this roster, said, he's the man. He's the man. He kept saying it to the point where I want to be like, all

[Gunther]

right, take it easy.

[Cody Rhodes]

All right, Marty. All right. You know, like. But he kept saying it, and I thought, so in that, in that, in that vein, coming onto TV after beating John Cena and letting the world know how you felt. And that, as you said, he. He tapped out and smiling and smiling a great deal and really letting the whole world know you did what you said you were going to do. How does it feel? Is there someone else in the crosshairs, or are you in the crosshairs of everyone else now? Because again, you may not know this, and I, Again, in the spirit of this conversation, straight up, many guys at the ring now look at you and say, cool, I want to be the one to get the receipt. I want to be the one to. To. To pull the Tyson for Ali. I want to be the one to come back. There's also a whole young generation.

[Gunther]

Yes.

[Cody Rhodes]

Of people who are mad. They don't even know how to process how mad they are. What's. What's on. What's on your plate? Are you fielding the offers now?

[Gunther]

See. No, not really. It's like, whoever is there is there kind of. And I take it from there. But you touched, like, on the. There's a whole younger generation out there. Yeah. Where it's like. Because obviously you review your position in the company and all of that stuff, it's like, what is there? And obviously there's like, Roman that's here for long and Brock, that I had spot for such a long time. And I feel like where I want to get to is like, I don't know, be able to get into that spot. Yeah. But then wrestle Ilya in that position.

[Cody Rhodes]

Sure.

[Gunther]

And have great matches with Braun down the line in that position. Great matches with Oba. There's many more of them. And I feel like that's what I want to get to. I Want to be the guy that is going to be able to wrestle all of them, have great matches with all of them. Yeah. And yeah. Kind of like contribute that way. I'm not really a person where.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Gunther]

And that's why I like my role and how I do it. Where it's like I don't have that. I don't have that in me to be wanting to be the guy that is at the very mountaintop and everybody looks up to him and yeah, kind of like. So I admire you sometimes for what you do because I couldn't like I would not be able to have that much fan interaction, to have that much media interaction and all of that. And you do it really good. And I don't know, that's not for me. But I still want to. I don't know, I want to be at the top, but in a different role and contribute that way.

[Cody Rhodes]

And it's the wrestling industry. I was taught this many years ago. The reason we shake hands at nauseam backstage is because we need one another. The Marquis says two names. John Cena's retirement match wasn't against nobody. We are relying on one another. And I think we do it differently, but in the spirit of transparency and being the man. Hoping that I can be the man and just wanting to be however you do it different or not. Good luck to you and I look forward to it.

[Gunther]

Cheers.

[Cody Rhodes]

Cheers.

[Gunther]

Thank you.

[Cody Rhodes]

Cheers.

[Gunther]

That is actually a very tasty drink.

[Cody Rhodes]

Bailey's a good bartender.

[Gunther]

Very good.

[Cody Rhodes]

And Wheatley American vodka. We. We do love them.

[Gunther]

So we need one that want each other. You said. And that's 100 true. I just had an interview too. It's like that whole pro wrestler, sports entertainer, blah, blah. And I said no, I. I'm glad like all the other guys are there. Like Jey USO or. Yeah, like John is the way he is and stuff like that. Because otherwise I couldn't exist. Like if everybody would be like me. Yeah. I wouldn't stand out.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Gunther]

Then there would be a big issue. So it's good. It's good the way it is. And yeah, like you said, we need one another.

[Cody Rhodes]

I didn't ask about Jay.

[Gunther]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

Because. Yeah, I won't ask about Jay. It's been a pleasant conversation. You know, you and Jay and WrestleMania. It is a moment and spot and position we had not seen you in.

[Gunther]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

And it's still something that the crowd brings forward.

[Gunther]

Oh, they do?

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah. And right now you can ride high

[Gunther]

because right now I can ask who tapped out. Now that's the Question.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yes, you can.

[Gunther]

Very good. But no, no, with Jay, like at that moment. That's the thing. I'm. I'm not a. How should I say? I don't. I can swallow my pride and when it's over, it's over. I have no issue with that. If the audience used it as weakness, then let them be. It's all right. Okay. It is all right.

[Cody Rhodes]

Nope.

[Gunther]

Okay.

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[Cody Rhodes]

good friend of mine and probably John Cena's. I think they even did a little package describing this, but kind of the Gordon solely. How Gordon solely was to Dusty Rhodes is always how Michael Cole has been to John Cena. The, the analysis, the announcer, the commentator and the wrestler itself. I'm curious, did you hear his comments on commentary upon you defeating John Cena? Did you hear what he said?

[Gunther]

I did, yes.

[Cody Rhodes]

And he said, correct me if I'm wrong. You said sports entertainment is dead.

[Gunther]

Sports and pro wrestling beat sports entertainment.

[Cody Rhodes]

Pro wrestling beats sports entertainment. Do you feel a certain way about that?

[Gunther]

Yeah, thought it was really cool. It's like because my, like my whole time before wwe, the whole moniker of the group back then, Ring Kampf was always like against sports entertainment, professional wrestlers. Yeah, that whole spiel. So to actually see that making it. Yeah. To this moment, that was very. What's the word for it? Very. It was a big confirmation.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah. For my validation.

[Gunther]

Validation.

[Cody Rhodes]

You were validated.

[Gunther]

Yes.

[Cody Rhodes]

Well, the sports entertainment get to try again.

[Gunther]

They will. I bet they will try again.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Gunther]

Because I'm the only pro wrestler here. I just choked.

[Cody Rhodes]

There it is.

[Gunther]

Just joking.

[Cody Rhodes]

Absolutely. This blood, sweat and causing tears. Brought to you by Wheatley American Vodka, which they're on fire lately. Myself and Wheatley, we like to think of ourselves as the American Dream team. The bottles, the bus, all the fun stuff. And the question becomes, who is on your dream team? And I'll go ahead and say, don't feel like you got to pick 3, 4, 5. We've kind of kept it as maybe a war games team.

[Gunther]

Okay.

[Cody Rhodes]

If you want to limit the numbers because we've also had animals and whole sports teams and people have taken this question and really run with it. Who is on the ring? General Gunther's team.

[Gunther]

So stick to the team of five.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah, that's fine.

[Gunther]

We'll do that.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah, yeah, we'll do that.

[Gunther]

So obviously, Kaiser.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yes.

[Gunther]

I would take Ilya.

[Cody Rhodes]

Okay.

[Gunther]

It's two more, right?

[Cody Rhodes]

It's real international affair.

[Gunther]

Is it actually like, what are we talking, like, right now or overall?

[Cody Rhodes]

No, you're overall.

[Gunther]

Okay.

[Cody Rhodes]

The makeup of you would still go with those two. Yeah.

[Gunther]

I have to take Kenta Kibashi.

[Cody Rhodes]

Oh, my gosh, this is a great team.

[Gunther]

The last one, I would say Stan Hansen. But then on the other hand, I'm already there. He's a. We don't need another.

[Cody Rhodes]

You don't think you need to.

[Gunther]

We don't need another big guy. We need somebody different. Wow.

[Cody Rhodes]

You're decisive. Okay.

[Gunther]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

Discerning and okay.

[Gunther]

Yeah. I think it would maybe take fit Finley. Oh, wow.

[Cody Rhodes]

So fit Ilya. Marcel. You Kabashi.

[Gunther]

Yes.

[Cody Rhodes]

Wow, that's us. It's a great team.

[Gunther]

I think that is that.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah, that is. They're not doing many jobs, if any.

[Gunther]

I think it would be a good team at the bar after, too.

[Cody Rhodes]

So it is a solid bar team as well. Very solid. Speaking of the bar, our friends at Wheatley have this jingle and I'm gonna have you watch it and I will ask if you can replace one of the words in it.

[Gunther]

Oh, my gosh.

[Cody Rhodes]

Feel it's. We've had some great answers. Non answers all the things. But the jingle is beautiful. Here you. Why should Moscow always get the mule Vodka this good is an American jewel. So Wheatley's so good, I drink it. And instead of neatly, what would you replace the neatly with?

[Gunther]

You just asked. The less the least creative guy in that room.

[Cody Rhodes]

Well, one thing that's a little, you know, I wouldn't say hack. A little thing you can always do is you speak multiple languages. You could provide something that we all, as Americans in this room think, oh, that was the sexiest thing I ever heard. And who knows who. Who knows what? What it means.

[Gunther]

Yeah, Sadly, I speak German, not French. German doesn't sound very sexy. Wheatley is so good, I drink it weekly.

[Cody Rhodes]

Weekly.

[Gunther]

Yeah. There you go. Fingers. A good balance sends a message for balance as well.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah. Not everything you're doing weekly. It's not every day.

[Gunther]

Yes.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah. If the doctor asks you, how often are you having Wheatly?

[Gunther]

Weekly.

[Cody Rhodes]

It's weekly.

[Gunther]

It's so good. I drink it weekly.

[Cody Rhodes]

Here we go, ladies and gentlemen. What do you want to talk about? Round of applause.

[Gunther]

Gunther. Thank you. You good? Yes.

[Cody Rhodes]

You've been so much fun.

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