Podcast Summary: What Do You Wanna Talk About? with Cody Rhodes

Episode: John Cena’s First Interview After Retiring (Dec 18, 2025)

Overview

In a landmark conversation recorded at the famed Nightmare Factory in Atlanta, WWE Champion Cody Rhodes sits down with John Cena for Cena’s first public interview since announcing his retirement from professional wrestling. The episode is an unfiltered, heartfelt, and insightful look at Cena's legendary career, his approach to wrestling, teaching, personal evolution, and what’s next after 23 years at the top of WWE. The tone seamlessly blends humor, introspection, and gratitude—and serves as a blueprint for anyone aspiring to longevity and impact, both within and outside of the wrestling world.

Key Topics & Insights

1. The Setting and the Toast ([00:00]–[04:36])

• Cody sets the scene at the Nightmare Factory, honoring Cena’s request for a special, meaningful locale.
• They start the conversation with a morning toast and joke about their custom drinks.
• Cena tells the origin of the “Okerland” (Mean Gene Okerland’s legendary drink), reflecting the shared rituals and traditions that define wrestling’s traveling culture.
• Key quote:
  Cena: “You choose [a Toyota truck] to find the places in between the detours where each adventure pulls you toward the next. And wrong turns turn out right.” (00:00)
• Discussion segues into Cena’s intensity and passion for mastering details in his interests, but Cena humbly refutes the notion that he must know everything.

2. Teaching Philosophy and Conversations with the Crowd ([04:57]–[13:12])

• Cody describes Cena’s distinct, immersive approach to teaching in and out of the ring—making sure the lesson is truly understood, not just delivered.
• Cena explains his philosophy: “I try never to be the smartest person in the room.” He shares that in wrestling (and coffee), he knows what he loves, and communicates that, rather than being an encyclopedic expert.
• The “conversation with the crowd” is the core of Cena’s wrestling style:
  Cena: “We have a conversation… with tens of thousands, sometimes hundreds of thousands, of people. …When I get most agitated is when performers talk at the audience. They don’t allow the conversation.” (08:27)
• Cena reveals his late-career epiphany: slowing down, embracing silence, and letting the audience into the story—seen as essential both in wrestling and in life.
  Cena: “What I love about it is, like, you’re learning all the time. All the time.” (14:45)

3. Meaning of Moments, Faces, and Storytelling ([15:37]–[23:26])

• Cody asks about Cena’s “two faces”—the emotional story behind his heel turn at Elimination Chamber and his final match against Gunther.
• Cena emphasizes that once art is out in the world, the public’s interpretation is what matters:
  Cena: “Once you put your art out, it is no longer yours.” (17:41)
• He walks through the story arc of his retirement tour (“a chronicle of the cycle of life…an individual towards the end of their life”), including the ease of turning heel, the passion in his final moments, and the serenity of his last “breath” in the ring:
  Cena: “As I essentially take my last breath… I have connected with everyone I love. Physically, I feel great. I think it’s time to take that last breath… peacefully.” (23:28)

4. Legacy, Failure, and Pushing the Next Generation ([27:06]–[47:16])

• Cena ardently encourages the next generation to experiment, even if it risks failure:
  Cena: “Do not be afraid to fail on camera… I am desperately trying to fail on my way out the door.” (29:53)
• He and Cody discuss the evolution of the live event circuit, differences between eras, and the importance of treating every show like a live event—“Everything you stated certainly weeds out folks who don’t want to be there. You earn every cent.” (35:55)
• Cena underscores the importance of living in the present and not romanticizing a gone era: “If I could give you any more advice, it’s not anymore. …If you go around back there romanticizing about days that don’t exist anymore, that creates a culture that romanticizes about shit that doesn’t exist, and that’s bad.” (39:16)
• The “Dirty 30” and road stories illustrate the brotherhood—and the painful but essential lessons and rituals that shaped them.

5. Mentorship & Listening to the Audience ([43:19]–[50:08])

• Cody asks whom Cena most credits as teachers. Cena answers: “My biggest teacher is the audience.” (43:48)
• The audience, he says, taught him humility, perseverance, and how to stand through adversity.
• The need for constant post-mortem analysis—“What could we have done better?”—is framed as a vital tool for growth, on and off the mat.

6. Defining Favorite Moments & the Power of Forgiveness ([49:25]–[55:38])

• For the first time, Cena picks a favorite:
  Cena: “I can’t get past Phil Brooks, CM Punk, Saudi Arabia. I think that might be my favorite moment in wrestling.” (50:32)
  • He highlights CM Punk’s public apology to a fan and the entire crowd, calling it a rare, transcendent moment of forgiveness and cultural bridge-building: Cena: “Wrestling just brought cultures together. Wrestling just brought people with different ideologies together in an embrace and excitement.” (52:45)

7. Business, Metrics & Passing the Torch ([58:08]–[68:05])

• Cena and Cody discuss the business side—live event gates, attendance records, and the slow, years-long process of building toward “metrics that matter.”
• Cena’s last locker room toast:
  Cena: “The reason we did that is because of the effort of people like Haku. Also, the goal is for you younger guys to shove that shit straight up my ass. You now have the metric.” (63:49)
• Cena’s gratitude for his forebears (Eddie Guerrero: “one fan at a time”) and insistence that young talent eclipse his records.

8. Evolution, Phases, and Personal Growth ([78:09]–[86:39])

• Cena and Cody share road stories of “phases” and changing interests (cowboy phase, lifting phase, learning to sip whiskey rather than chug).
• The value of curiosity and continuous reinvention:
  Cena: “We shouldn’t be who we were yesterday… All of us have phases. …I enthusiastically go in, and then when something is exhausted, I take the nuggets of what I loved about it.” (80:18, 80:50)
• Cena acknowledges his wife’s presence at every retirement tour show, how she’s enriched his life and connected him to the broader world outside wrestling.
• They describe the group toast ritual (“listening is a lost art”).

9. The Art of the Conversation, Communication, and Learning ([88:36]–[90:54])

• Technical details and behind-the-curtain anecdotes, e.g., Cena’s emphasis on in-match communication (“Ears, bud, ears. Can’t hear.”)
• The need for young wrestlers to understand listening, awareness, and adaptability in high-pressure moments.
• The evolving WWE product and audience appetite for authenticity and transparency.

10. Looking Ahead: Retirement, Legacy, and What’s Next ([92:32]–[109:15])

• Cena confirms—definitively—he’s done wrestling in the ring.
• Immediate plans: dental work, family time, and open-mindedness for the next “hill” life will present.
  Cena: “Life will deal you a hill.”
• Cody and Cena share mutual aspirations to work together in new roles outside the ring.
• Cena reflects on “the fictitious long-term booking” myth, how often plans change, and the value in adapting and making magic with what (and who) you have in front of you.
• The business has never been stronger; more creative freedom, technological reach, globality; the “tentacles” of WWE reach farther than ever before (Netflix, ESPN, international PLEs).

11. Final Reflections: Did Cena Leave It Better? ([104:23]–End)

• Cody asks: “Do you think you left it better than you found it?”
• Cena’s measured, honest answer:
  Cena: “The amount of opportunities for performers is exponential. … The company is far more empathetic and inspirational… We have great partnerships now. … We are in a consumer service business, consumer first.” (104:23)
• He acknowledges WWE’s transformation into a global entertainment powerhouse—and credits not just himself, but an ever-growing, ever-evolving team and culture.
• Emotional closing: gratitude, mutual respect, a heartfelt hug, and a toast to the future—however uncertain and exciting it may be.

Notable Quotes & Moments With Timestamps

• On teaching and mastery:
  “In every level of anything, there’s always somebody above you. I try never to be the smartest person in the room.” — John Cena [07:01]

• On the importance of “conversation” in wrestling:
  “When I get most agitated is when performers talk at the audience. They don’t allow the conversation.” — John Cena [08:27]

• On learning and evolving:
  “What I love about it is, like, you’re learning all the time. All the time.” — John Cena [14:45]

• On letting go of art:
  “Once you put your art out, it is no longer yours.” — John Cena [17:41]

• On persevering through criticism:
  “Everything I do is criticized at such a microscopic surgical level. But it will not stop me from failing.” — John Cena [31:39]

• On favorite wrestling moment:
  “I can’t get past Phil Brooks, CM Punk, Saudi Arabia. I think that might be my favorite moment in wrestling. …Wrestling brought cultures together.” — John Cena [50:32-52:45]

• On legacy and advice:
  “The reason we did that is because of the effort of people like Haku. Also, the goal is for you younger guys to shove that shit straight up my ass. You now have the metric.” — John Cena [63:49]

• On personal evolution:
  “We shouldn’t be who we were yesterday… All of us have phases. …I enthusiastically go in, and then when something is exhausted, I take the nuggets of what I loved about it.” — John Cena [80:18, 80:50]

• On what’s next:
  “Life will deal you a hill.” — John Cena [93:35]

• On leaving WWE better:
  “The amount of opportunities for performers is exponential. … The company is far more empathetic and inspirational… Creative outlet has never been better for talent.” — John Cena [104:23]

Landmark Timestamps

• 00:00 – Show opens at the Nightmare Factory, context for first post-retirement interview
• 04:36 – Cena compliments Cody’s work ethic and reflects on his own habits
• 09:21 – Defining matches as conversations with the audience
• 13:12 – Recent epiphany and relentless learning in wrestling
• 16:54 – The story behind Cena’s heel turn and final match
• 22:44 – Final moments in the ring, comparing wrestling retirement to peaceful passing
• 29:53 – Advice to younger talent: “do not be afraid to fail”
• 43:48 – “My biggest teacher is the audience.”
• 50:32 – Cena’s favorite wrestling moment: CM Punk’s apology in Saudi Arabia
• 63:49 – Final locker room toast: passing the torch
• 80:50 – Embracing phases, personal growth
• 93:35 – Cena on the next chapter: “Life will deal you a hill.”
• 104:23 – “Did you leave it better than you found it?” Cena’s legacy answer
• 109:15 – Emotional closing; gratitude, hugs, affirmation

Conclusion

This episode stands as both a profound send-off and a masterclass in wrestling, legacy, and life. John Cena, in his first interview after retirement, exemplifies humility, continuous learning, accountability, and passing it forward. Cody Rhodes, the gracious host and student, is emblematic of the new era—one that cherishes the past while boldly shaping the future. For fans, wrestlers, and anyone interested in growth, this is a touchstone conversation for years to come.