Kevin Owens - What Do You Wanna Talk About? with Cody Rhodes

Summary7 min read

What Do You Wanna Talk About? with Cody Rhodes x Fanatics

Guest: Kevin Owens

Episode Date: June 25, 2025

Episode Overview

In this special episode, Cody Rhodes sits down with Kevin Owens for a candid, deeply personal, and laughter-filled conversation at the Buffalo Trace Distillery in Frankfort, Kentucky—far from their usual WWE tour bus setup. The duo, joined by Corey Graves (acting as moderator and contributor), delve into the inside world of wrestling, sharing untold locker room tales, their career paths, struggles, tender family moments, and hilarious road stories. This is a genuine celebration of friendship, evolution in the wrestling business, and life beyond the ropes.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Wrestling Friendships & Authenticity in the Business

Cody and Kevin’s Real-Life Bond: Cody shares that Kevin is one of his real friends in wrestling—a rarity in the business, echoing his father’s wisdom about true friendships in wrestling (00:45).
Workplace Proximity Associates (WPA): The concept of being TV “friends” versus real-life friends—Owens jokes about refusing to be forced into a TV friendship with Damian Priest during the pandemic era (03:01).
- “They tried to make me be friends with Damian Priest on television—how'd it go? I refused.” – Kevin Owens [03:01]

2. Creative Integrity & Saying “No”

Knowing When to Refuse Creative: Owens emphasizes the importance of being discerning about creative decisions, refusing storyline ideas that don’t fit his character or insult the audience’s intelligence (05:54).
- “If I think the audience would be insulted by it ... I just didn’t like it. I think it was shit.” – Kevin Owens [06:45]
Admiration for Owning Your Brand: Rhodes and Graves praise Owens for his integrity in guiding his own character and not saying yes to everything, something often undervalued in wrestling (05:01).

3. The Cody List – Life After WWE and the Indie Blueprint

The Symbolism of the List: Discussion on Cody’s iconic “List” post-WWE, which galvanized fan interest and made every booked match—for even less-hyped opponents—feel important (10:01).
- “Because you put it on the list ... that match became something people wanted to see.” – Kevin Owens [10:28]
Pricing and Ethics on the Indies: Kevin and Cody contrast their approaches to indie bookings, stressing fair pricing for promoters and warning of the dangers of ex-WWE stars overestimating their draw (12:16, 13:00).
- “Ex-WWE guys ... charged insane amounts of money ... which he might have gotten a couple times at first ... but it’s not sustainable.” – Kevin Owens [12:48]
PWG Pay & Merch Sales: They reminisce about negotiating with Super Dragon and how the Bucks and Colt Cabana changed the merch game by pioneering print-on-demand with Pro Wrestling Tees (30:04).

4. How the Indie Scene Evolved: Who’s the Face Now?

The New State of Indies: Owens asserts that today’s indies are fundamentally different (“there is no independent scene anymore ... or at least, not like it was”) due to major signings and fragmentation (34:25).
- “It almost feels like there is no independent scene anymore.” – Kevin Owens [34:30]
Cody on Matt Cardona: Cody (with some Owens ribbing) nominates Matt Cardona as the contemporary indie face, while Owens pokes fun at Cardona’s wrestler tan and his desire to return to WWE (36:35).

5. Locker Room Stories and Life Lessons

Big Show Antics & Comedy in Wrestling: The famous “comedy” story where Cody learns to embrace entertaining the crowd—even if it means wrestling with a rubber chicken—on advice from Big Show (26:29).
- “I told him, ‘I don’t want to do haha anymore’ ... He just kinda went like, says, ‘Okay, well can I tell you what to do then?’ I said, ‘Yes, please.’ ... He goes, ‘Well, get over then.’” – Cody Rhodes [26:29]
NXT Beginnings & Dusty’s Influence: Owens describes his first interactions with Dusty Rhodes and how Dusty recognized Owens’ motivation to build a better life for his family (47:08).
- “We spent an hour talking in that airport, just about life, about family... Not one word about wrestling.” – Kevin Owens [47:08]
Parenting & Personal Growth: Both men reflect on how fatherhood changed their approach to wrestling and life, with Cody crediting his daughter Liberty for giving him a new “why” (48:22).
Heart, Shin, or Head?: Kevin humorously ranks which wrestlers he’d take a bullet for and at what body part (55:13).

6. Candid Talk About Health & Injuries

Owens’ Neck Injury: Open discussion on Kevin Owens’ ongoing battle with a serious neck and spinal cord injury—what the medical team is advising, the frustration of not knowing the surgery’s outcome, and anxieties about pain and returning to the ring (70:54).
- “We're letting my spinal cord heal as much as we can on its own ... The last week, everything hit. So now ... I can't wait to get the surgery. Not just because I want to get back in the ring, just because I want to not be in pain.” – Kevin Owens [71:02, 72:44]

7. Giving Back, Memories, and Legacy

Gift Exchange: Cody gifts Owens the actual “winged eagle” replica championship belt from his title run, signing it together—a symbolic gesture of friendship and shared legacy (78:24–79:16).
- “That one’s yours ... That’s for you.” – Cody Rhodes [80:59]
Bret Hart, Owen Hart, and Childhood Idols: Owens discusses his complex fandom, explaining he was an Owen Hart guy, not a Bret Hart guy, and how those early allegiances impacted his career dreams (82:16).
- “Automatically, Shawn Michaels fan, Owen Hart fan. Can't really be a Bret Hart guy.” – Kevin Owens [83:59]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

“They tried to make me be friends with Damian Priest on television—how'd it go? I refused.” – Owens [03:01]
“If I think the audience would be insulted by it ... I just didn’t like it. I think it was shit.” – Owens [06:45]
“You know what I hate the most is ... [when] I go in the locker room, try to go to the restroom ... there's this layer of fake tanner!” – Owens on wrestler tans [37:36]
“If your tan looks like it could rub off on someone else, it’s too much.” – Owens [37:34]
“When I left I didn’t really ask anyone other than you ... how would you map this out?” – Rhodes to Owens on leaving WWE [09:01]
“Colt created the Colt. I’m the reason why Pro Wrestling Tees exists.” – Owens [29:38]
“You, Randy, Jimmy, Sammy, Finn, Becky ... all in the heart.” – Owens, on who he’d “take a bullet” for [56:13]
“Consistency is actually sometimes plays against you. Because if you're too consistent, then it becomes normal.” – Owens [68:39]
“We talked about making everything work ... [Miz] is the epitome of that.” – Owens on The Miz [65:32]
“We did the ladder match, we had talked about ... you had said, like, my legs ... feel like they're dragging under me.” – Rhodes on Owens’ injury [74:02]

Highlights by Segment (Selected Timestamps)

00:45–07:14 — Friendly banter, “workplace proximity associates,” Owens tells the story of refusing to be Damian Priest’s “best friend” on TV.

09:01–15:16 — Cody’s WWE exit, Owens’ advice and influence, the making of “the List”; lessons about indie wrestling bookings.

29:02–34:16 — Indie scene evolution, how Owens, The Bucks, Colt and others shaped the modern wrestler-entrepreneur.

37:05–38:48 — Locker room pet peeves: fake tanner and shaving disasters.

47:08–51:41 — Dusty Rhodes’ mentorship, family motivations, and the realities of parenting as a wrestler.

62:17–65:00 — In-ring preparation styles: Cody vs. Kevin/Sami; the magic of working with different “processes”.

65:03–68:43 — The enduring value of The Miz and Natalya, and why being “consistently great” may be undervalued.

70:54–74:58 — Kevin’s neck injury: the diagnosis, impact, upcoming surgery, and personal reflections.

78:24–81:02 — Presentation and gifting of the “winged eagle” belt from Cody to Kevin.

82:16–84:47 — Childhood wrestling idols; Owens’ fandom of Owen Hart and Shawn Michaels, Bret Hart’s role in his life.

Final Reflections, Dream Teams, & Wrap-Up

Dream Teams: Owens builds a fantasy Survivor Series team: Cody, Randy Orton, Sami Zayn, and Finn Bálor (89:08).
- “Easy, dude. We smoke the field.” – Cody [89:51]
Mount Rushmore of Jerseys: Owens’ picks: Stone Cold, Shawn Michaels, Randy Orton, Becky Lynch (85:42).
Friendship & Respect: In the closing moments, the gift of the winged eagle belt and open, affectionate dialogue reaffirms the deep sense of camaraderie—and that, above all, is what this episode celebrates: real friendships, respect, and the journey both inside the squared circle and in life.

A must-listen for any wrestling fan seeking authenticity, humor, and a rare, intimate glimpse behind the curtain of WWE’s most genuine relationships.

Loading summary

Transcript912 lines

[00:00]
Cody Rhodes
Foreign.
[00:05]
Corey Graves
Hello. Welcome to what do youo Want to Talk About? A WWE and Fanatics original production brought to you by our friends at Wheatley American Vodka. And today we're not. We're not on my home away from home. We're not on the bus. We're actually in Frankfort, Kentucky, at the Buffalo Trace Distillery. They do tours here. We are in a. We are sequestered in a hidden room, a bit of a speakeasy. And get in on that.
[00:32]
Kevin Owens
You see this? Get in on that. It's a real thing.
[00:35]
Corey Graves
That is a real thing, folks.
[00:37]
Kevin Owens
The only way I'll ever be on a bottle is if I put my face behind the clear bottle. But look at that. There's two of them.
[00:43]
Corey Graves
See, we did get multiple photos.
[00:45]
Kevin Owens
Pretty crazy.
[00:46]
Corey Graves
And my guest, who's introduced himself already. All right, slightly oddly, this guest, I didn't think of an intro for because this is one of my friends in the wrestling business. And my father used to say he probably had five friends in the wrestling business. And when he would list them out, it seemed more like 3. DDP. Always excited that he remained one of those digits. But one of my very few friends in the entire business. Former everything champion, WrestleMania Saturday night main eventer, all the things you could possibly do. And someone who changed the course except Sunday night. And somebody who changed the course of professional wrestling in general by the things he did. In terms of change my course, at least helping me out, sending me out into the unknown and sending me out with the proper information which I needed at the time. Following my career, keeping up with me. One of my. Again, I might be like my dad. Five friends, maybe it's less, but he is certainly one of them. An exceptional human being. A lover of zoos. This guy loves the zoos, folks. And a dinosaur man as well. And please welcome to. What do you want to talk about the one and only Kevin Owens.
[02:10]
Kevin Owens
Yes.
[02:11]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[02:12]
Corey Graves
Oh, they usually don't clap. That's the first time we ever clap.
[02:15]
Kevin Owens
I was going to say it's really awkward if only one person in the room. Full of what? There are seven people in here.
[02:20]
Corey Graves
I dialed up an introduction for Priest and it was. It was.
[02:25]
Kevin Owens
So if he. So since he got it, he got an introduction meaning you're not friends with him? Because what you just said is, I didn't think of an introduction for your friend, so it's okay. I'm not friends with him. They tried to make me friends with him.
[02:39]
Corey Graves
So a lot of people are. Have you heard me use the term workplace proximity associates? Sure.
[02:44]
Kevin Owens
Well, I've never heard you say that. I've heard you say several things. The old WPA would come out of your mouth for sure.
[02:48]
Corey Graves
WPAs?
[02:49]
Kevin Owens
Yeah, they tried to make me be friends with Damian Priest on television. How'd it go then? I refused.
[02:58]
Corey Graves
Can you tell me why? Yeah, sure. That's our first question.
[03:01]
Kevin Owens
Well, so in 2021 was the pandemic era. I was embroiled in a feud with Roman Reigns.
[03:11]
Corey Graves
Ah, the Big Dog.
[03:12]
Kevin Owens
It was the beginning of a four year nightmare that just would not stop for me. But when it started, you know, we were wrestling in front of empty buildings. Well, we had the weird screens there.
[03:23]
Corey Graves
Yeah, Thunderdome.
[03:24]
Kevin Owens
Yeah, you missed that. You missed that time. And right at the. Right when we were gonna have the blow off match was gonna be the last man standing match, the Royal Rumble, which turned out to be everyone's favorite match that we had.
[03:37]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[03:38]
Kevin Owens
About three weeks before. I'm thinking, okay, we're firing on all cylinders. We're going to the Royal Rumble. It's a big match. It's gonna be a lot of fun. And then I'm at television and they come tell me, well, things are kind of changing now. You're going to be introducing your new best friend to help you take on the bloodline. Because it's the numbers game. Like, who's this guy? They go, you know, Damian Priest from nxt. I go, the, the art. The guy who's right.
[04:08]
Corey Graves
Yeah.
[04:09]
Kevin Owens
Yes. I go, well, I have nothing against them, but no one would believe that we're best friends. We cannot be more opposite. And why it's so random. Turns out somebody threw this idea out there and it stuck for about five minutes until I said, no, I don't want to be friends with him on tv, maybe in real life, but let's start somewhere.
[04:33]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[04:34]
Kevin Owens
And yeah, he got killed, but he's going to take my match. It was going to be him versus Roman Reigns of the Royal Rumble.
[04:40]
Corey Graves
Oh, the plot thickens.
[04:41]
Kevin Owens
I was incensed.
[04:42]
Corey Graves
I said, no, you, you as a.
[04:45]
Kevin Owens
But hey, for what it's worth, I didn't doll his career. He debuted on the main roster like two weeks later.
[04:49]
Corey Graves
Well, you, you bring, you bring something up that I feel like we've never talked about on the podcast at all is sometimes there are people in the space in pro wrestling who say yes to everything.
[05:02]
Kevin Owens
Yeah.
[05:02]
Corey Graves
And they, they kind of make that their thing is, you got it, I'll go do this, I'll go do that, I'll go do that. And then there's others who are More discerning and more disciplined with their choices in terms of how they presented as a wrestler, if you want to use the term artist, whatever it may be. I feel like I have always, I don't, I don't think secretly I've always admired to a degree those who can go, hey, that's not for me. It's might be a good idea, but that's not for me because there's that school of thought as well that's hey, I'm going to make anything work. But sometimes making anything work is not as good as this just doesn't work in general. Let's find something else. And I feel like that's an area where I admire your ability to say, hey, I know my, I know myself, I know my brand, I know what people will buy. And they wouldn't buy that.
[05:54]
Kevin Owens
Yeah, I think it's. For me it just comes down to if I think the audience would be insulted by it, which I didn't think the audience would be insulted by the concept of me and him being friends. But yeah, up to that point, you know, and at that time NXT had already been around. People are aware of NXT enough to know that he's been in nxt. I used to be in nxt. We never had any sort of interaction, never in our lives were we like. It would just be so random. It was one thing if they would have told me, you're going to bring him in as your backup. Just a guy you saw in NXT that impressed you. But they know he has to be your best friend. I'm like, also, I spent years television wise telling us, screwing every friend I had and not in the fun way, backstabbing them. So why would I just introduce this random best friend that I've never. So anyway it was more of a. I just didn't, I just didn't like it. I think it was shit.
[06:45]
Corey Graves
You can't see yourself though in kind of that Shawn Michaels. I'm just picturing now as you're talking. Cause I'm having fun with this question.
[06:53]
Kevin Owens
That's the thing.
[06:53]
Corey Graves
I'm picturing you in Shawn Michaels outfit.
[06:56]
Kevin Owens
Picture Damien Priestess from Damien Priestess. And I love him. Great guy.
[07:00]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[07:00]
Kevin Owens
But what he is on the way.
[07:03]
Corey Graves
He can just.
[07:04]
Kevin Owens
The way just him and me, it's gonna work.
[07:08]
Corey Graves
No simple question for you. What are you drinking there? What is that? That's a specialty drink made for just you.
[07:15]
Kevin Owens
Yeah, they called it Stun and Run.
[07:17]
Corey Graves
Stun and Run.
[07:18]
Kevin Owens
Which is funny. Damn, I don't run much. No, but I'll take this.
[07:21]
Corey Graves
Yeah. This guy likes to stay in the fight.
[07:23]
Kevin Owens
Stun and walk briskly. Like, briskly. Part is getting worse because my neck, my knees are shit. So it's stun and stun around a lot.
[07:31]
Corey Graves
Well, cheers to you.
[07:32]
Kevin Owens
All right.
[07:32]
Corey Graves
Cheers to you. Oh, my friend has a stunning run. I have the American 14.95. That is the price.
[07:41]
Kevin Owens
Pretty good price.
[07:42]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[07:42]
Corey Graves
I mean, it's a proper.
[07:43]
Kevin Owens
Keeps it nice and cold.
[07:44]
Corey Graves
That's the thing. It's a proper glass for me.
[07:47]
Kevin Owens
I thought your face was on the other side. So if that had been the case, 14.95 would be a bargain. Now, it's a fair price because your face is not on it. So, all due respect to Wheatley American Vodka.
[07:58]
Corey Graves
I get the sense, Kevin, that some of this iconography and some of this stuff you don't want, love.
[08:02]
Kevin Owens
I actually do love it.
[08:04]
Corey Graves
Oh, thanks.
[08:04]
Kevin Owens
I really do love it. I do. But I can't help but think, you know, often I present it as a. It's very funny because it is funny, but also for me. I remember what. I remember when you told me, I'm leaving. I quit.
[08:19]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[08:19]
Kevin Owens
And now. You know what I mean? And the diff. I've told you this before. The difference is staggering. And it's more. I'm still in disbelief. Not that you did it, because I knew you could, but that it. It even. It surpassed even what I'm sure even you would have expected.
[08:35]
Corey Graves
Oh, I'm in uncharted territory.
[08:36]
Cody Rhodes
Right?
[08:36]
Corey Graves
For sure.
[08:37]
Kevin Owens
That's it. But, yeah, but I do love it. I mean, how. This is incredible.
[08:41]
Corey Graves
Do you know. Do you know when you gave me your complete, full support and you actually said something similar to what you just said? You. I think basically you told me everything was possible for me after you saw a certain moment. Do you remember what that was?
[08:58]
Kevin Owens
The Ring of Honor Final Battle.
[09:00]
Corey Graves
Y. And you.
[09:01]
Kevin Owens
Lethal.
[09:02]
Corey Graves
Yes. You texted me after final Battle and just. It was actually you who texted me after final Battle and then Triple H who texted me after I wrestled. Wrestled Christopher Daniels. And I remember thinking, like, ah, they're watching. They're watching. Good. And I'm also having a good time. I'm having fun. That's probably the first thing that I think it's important. And I always. Not only are these fun, and I hope people are entertained by these conversations, but it's so important that people know. And we've talked about it on tv, we've touched it, but we've not been able to go in long form. When I left I didn't really ask anyone other than you. Hey, how do. How would you map this out? What would you do? How would you play this? I remember talking to you about the list, which now is. It's kind of the symbol of where we mobilized a fan base to say, hey, I'm doing something. It's not. Just stay tuned to the next chapter. I'm not done yet. Can't wait till you see what I do next. There was a promise.
[10:01]
Kevin Owens
Yeah. It actually. It was genius to do that because then it made even some things that might have seemed mundane or not really a big deal to some people. For example, some of the names you had on the list. Great wrestlers, but.
[10:14]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[10:15]
Kevin Owens
Not necessarily somebody that people would have loved to see you wrestle.
[10:19]
Corey Graves
Sure.
[10:19]
Kevin Owens
Like, I. I think I believe Mike Bennett was on the list.
[10:21]
Corey Graves
And Mike Bennett is on the list.
[10:22]
Kevin Owens
I really like Mike the Miracle. Cody Rhodes was Mike Bennett. To me.
[10:26]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[10:26]
Kevin Owens
It's not a match that people would have died to see.
[10:28]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[10:28]
Kevin Owens
Not just because Mike is a great wrestler, but I don't think it's somebody that people would have thought him and Cody Rhodes could have a killer match. But because you put it on the list and then the list became this important thing, that match became something people wanted to see. And then you guys did it in tna.
[10:43]
Corey Graves
I think we did it in tna, and then we did it at a few northeast wrestling shows.
[10:46]
Kevin Owens
And it just. It was a bigger deal just because it had a bit of hype just from that.
[10:50]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[10:51]
Kevin Owens
You know what I mean?
[10:52]
Corey Graves
You helped curate the list. You helped me. And it wasn't always, hey, put this person on. It was. I don't think this one.
[11:00]
Kevin Owens
I think I remember telling you you shouldn't put that one on there, but I don't remember.
[11:03]
Corey Graves
I think the one that you were more like. I don't know, man. Was Moose. I think the one you were more. And a lot of those were. Remember, I was trying to be like Batman in this moment where I have a plan and there's a plan behind the plan. So some of these were booked already.
[11:17]
Kevin Owens
Yeah.
[11:18]
Corey Graves
Yeah. So, like Kurt Angle, for example. Booked already. It's got to be on the list. Few of these, and then a lot of them. The streamers thing, for example, I genuinely wanted that to see, you know, on these certain independent shows. Then the biggest part of it was I would ask you about the people out there and not just wrestlers. Hey, I talked to Greg at Ring of Honor, for example, and Joe, God bless him.
[11:40]
Kevin Owens
Yeah.
[11:41]
Corey Graves
What. What do you think about this? And I Remember asking you too. The big question I asked about was pricing. And it was a really good conversation because you said I agreed with your sentiment on don't rob the bank. Price yourself fairly so that you can keep going. Price yourself fairly. That. My big thing was I would do the in the ring photos after the show. I wanted to make sure the promoter got his money back because I would be on the show with other ex WWE guys or WWE legends, whatever. But they'd robbed the bank. I knew that guy didn't get his money off you.
[12:16]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[12:16]
Kevin Owens
And I was tricky for that part because I, when I was on the Indies, I had never had the WWE exposure at all.
[12:22]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[12:22]
Kevin Owens
And I didn't have the Rhodes name, which means a lot. Right. So I think the highest amount of money I ever charged on anyone on the Indies was 600 bucks.
[12:30]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[12:30]
Kevin Owens
And you know, I was getting booked enough selling a ton of shirts. I was doing fine. But you were a different story. So when we were talking about that, I just remember specifically hearing about ex WWE guys that overestimated their appeal.
[12:48]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[12:49]
Kevin Owens
Just because they were coming off of wwe. And I think, you know, a good example. Charged insane amounts of money.
[13:00]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[13:01]
Kevin Owens
Which he might have gotten a couple times at first.
[13:03]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[13:04]
Kevin Owens
And now I think, I think it's safe to say he has not on shows with me very much. I don't know, you know, if that's. It might be by design. Maybe he decided not to.
[13:13]
Corey Graves
Not everyone. Not everyone. It's. It's so many people. So many.
[13:17]
Kevin Owens
This podcast is gonna be like 20 minutes long.
[13:19]
Corey Graves
Because one thing, like for example, when you said we can bleep it out and just let people guess. Yes. That's a good one. That way there's no issue. Because I love that because that was a great example of Hey, I appreciate it. Getting your money. We gotta eat.
[13:34]
Kevin Owens
Are they gonna put a square over my mouth?
[13:36]
Corey Graves
Read it so that people can guess.
[13:38]
Kevin Owens
Instead of a square, can you put Cody's face over my mout?
[13:41]
Corey Graves
Yes.
[13:42]
Cody Rhodes
Yes.
[13:43]
Kevin Owens
Oh no. Just this tattoo.
[13:44]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[13:44]
Kevin Owens
Just the tattoo. Yeah. So. But.
[13:49]
Corey Graves
Cody tattoo, it was tricky. I was all over the board and what I charged. If it was like a mom and pop, that probably was a one time visit. Maybe it was more full rate. And then I'd do everything I could to make sure they got their money. If it was something I wanted to do. I don't know what I took for pwg, for example, but I remember. I believe. Hope this doesn't sound crazy. I believe I. I took $750 and it was more a matter of when I said that they weren't used to. Nobody was making to be part of the battle of Los Angeles. Nobody was making big money. You want to be here. And I understood that sentiment. But I also wanted to make sure like I hope they know though just there is a like a little bit of a firewall so that it's not just a I'll do whatever and do anything.
[14:35]
Kevin Owens
I mean so pwg, we may have talked about it actually and I definitely told you charge the least to them that you willing to. Yeah, cuz me, I mean me and. And Sammy were char. We wrestle for literally whatever Danny would give us.
[14:48]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[14:48]
Corey Graves
For Danny is Super Dragon, right?
[14:50]
Kevin Owens
Correct.
[14:51]
Corey Graves
Yeah. Cuz I remember he, he when I said 750 we agreed but I remember there was a pause to the like well yeah, can you do this? 100% I can do this and I'll be back, you know.
[15:02]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[15:03]
Kevin Owens
But yeah, I mean you approached it in the best way you could have. You approached it with no ego and no expectation of. Even though so like again, I hate to bring up the of the world. Right.
[15:16]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[15:16]
Kevin Owens
They did stuff in wwe. They were popular guys at a certain level. They won some titles, everything but nothing. Their run up until when they ended up getting released and having to go on the independent scene was never compared to the run you had had up to that point. Even towards the end. If you want to Stardust as a low point, which I know you do. I honestly don't. I loved Stardust. I legit did. Even if you consider like just look at everything. Before Stardust you were intercontinental champ. You're in the legacy with Randy. You were working Triple H and Sean and main events and pay per views.
[15:48]
Corey Graves
You were there.
[15:49]
Kevin Owens
Yes. You had a great run and you still approached it with no ego. Not expecting that run to do anything for you on independent scene besides having promoters attention. You didn't expect them to give you three grand a match just because you won the intercontinental title.
[16:05]
Corey Graves
No. Yeah, yeah.
[16:06]
Kevin Owens
By you know, disaster kicking Big show off the apron.
[16:10]
Corey Graves
Speaking of that, his foot going through a table. We have to talk about that amazing finish.
[16:13]
Kevin Owens
Let's do it.
[16:14]
Corey Graves
No, but go ahead. I liked what you were going the table.
[16:16]
Kevin Owens
His foot through the table and.
[16:18]
Corey Graves
And the way he's.
[16:20]
Cody Rhodes
Big Show.
[16:20]
Corey Graves
Big show told the producer it's going to work. It did work and that producer was dying to tell us we were wrong. And then when his foot went through that table.
[16:30]
Kevin Owens
What did Arn say?
[16:31]
Corey Graves
His face, I remember him. Was it Arn it wasn't. Oh, but you could probably guess who else. But I remember him saying I was wrong. That was great.
[16:41]
Kevin Owens
Let's play guess the producer. What year was that?
[16:47]
Corey Graves
Gosh, Extreme rules was the pay per view, right?
[16:50]
Kevin Owens
Doesn't work here anymore.
[16:51]
Corey Graves
Tables. No, it works here.
[16:52]
Kevin Owens
He does.
[16:53]
Corey Graves
Yeah, he's. Hell yeah, he works.
[16:55]
Kevin Owens
Jamie. Nope.
[16:57]
Corey Graves
I would have done a Jamie impression. That's right.
[16:59]
Kevin Owens
Who's left?
[17:01]
Corey Graves
It's not Arn. Remember Big Show's Golden Circle? Golden Circle producer man.
[17:07]
Kevin Owens
I really didn't work with him that much. I don't think I know who his golden circle was.
[17:10]
Corey Graves
So. Well, when I say golden circle, I mean, when I first got in, Arn used to refer to the golden circle. It was the talent that really could do whatever they wanted because they did well for the company. Drew for the company, and we took care of that talent. Of course, you're talking about John Cena, Randy Orton, people like that.
[17:27]
Kevin Owens
Oh, Michael, you got it. Oh, of course Michael wouldn't work. Michael tells everybody nothing's gonna work to Michael. But then he admits that he's wrong.
[17:34]
Corey Graves
To Michael's very quickly he said, do it. And I can't wait to tell you guys it's wrong. And I remember him sitting there, and then he was forthcoming afterwards because he's been right so many times in his career to take that random shot and, you know, show his foot going through the table. I mean, to this day, people think they used the B word for it. I'm like, great. Then it was, we have not. But.
[17:58]
Kevin Owens
Wrong vowel.
[17:59]
Corey Graves
It's all good.
[18:01]
Kevin Owens
Yeah, but it worked because of Sho's reaction.
[18:04]
Corey Graves
It's the whole thing. And that's how he really was as a giant. Like, I don't know if you were there at the big Texan steakhouse in Amarillo. No, when we're all sitting, it's a giant group of us. That's where if you eat the 70 something ounce steak with the potato and veggies, you get your picture on the wall. We're all sitting there. Two things happen that day.
[18:21]
Kevin Owens
Hey, I need a refill. Can we call?
[18:23]
Corey Graves
Yes, for sure, for sure.
[18:24]
Kevin Owens
I need more drink.
[18:26]
Corey Graves
I'll actually take one myself. There we go.
[18:28]
Kevin Owens
Stun and walk back in here.
[18:29]
Corey Graves
Stun and walk.
[18:31]
Kevin Owens
No, no. This is a soundproof door.
[18:32]
Corey Graves
I think it's have to come down the stairs to the speakeasy.
[18:36]
Kevin Owens
Is there. Are there customers up there? Push to exit. Hey.
[18:41]
Corey Graves
All right.
[18:42]
Kevin Owens
Thank you. That was so quick.
[18:44]
Corey Graves
Thank you. Are you ready to hold WWE history in the palm of Your hand. Topps is bringing you closer to the action than ever before. With WWE Topps now highlighting the biggest matches and milestones from WWE shows and ples throughout the year. Topps now is enhancing the fan experience by connecting collectors to the superstars and spectacles that ignite their passion. Featuring stunning event, exclusive photography, each card is made for the moment. And for some lucky collectors, that moment could become the pull of a lifetime. Along with serial numbered parallels, some top snow releases offer a chance at rare short prints, Superstar autographs, and even pieces of the mat, gear or other items used during the featured match. So which moment will you collect with each card only available for a limited time, you won't want to wait to begin your tops now journey. Be sure to subscribe to WWE Topps now mailing list on topps.com and and follow Topps on all social media platforms so you never miss a single moment. Also, we should take a moment while they're doing this. These are our wonderful folks at the Buffalo Trace Distillery and our friends at Wheatley American Vodka. Okay, so we're talking about show, the big show, stepping through, step through the same big Texan steakhouse.
[20:06]
Kevin Owens
Oh, yeah. Okay.
[20:07]
Corey Graves
Show is sitting at the edge. It was a rare moment. You know, it's always a rare moment when all the talent get together to do something.
[20:12]
Kevin Owens
Yeah.
[20:13]
Corey Graves
So everyone is.
[20:13]
Kevin Owens
It's so rare that I never do it. So that's. So actually, I went to eat with Randy Waller theory, Carmelo Hayes.
[20:21]
Corey Graves
Right.
[20:22]
Kevin Owens
A few others very recently. Was shocking.
[20:24]
Corey Graves
So that's a shocking moment.
[20:27]
Kevin Owens
Yeah.
[20:27]
Corey Graves
So we're all there together.
[20:28]
Kevin Owens
Steakhouse. I'm not there.
[20:29]
Corey Graves
Two things are happening.
[20:30]
Kevin Owens
Thank you.
[20:30]
Corey Graves
Randy's going through a milk phase. He'll be okay with me sharing this, but everything was whole milk. So he's ordering whole milk. He's wearing black jeans. He's only brought one pair. And this waiter comes out with a tray of drinks and he spills. He literally. You see the wobble? He spills the milk on Randy's jeans. And I remember Randy was so Randy. He was like, well, it's not your fault. But, you know, I only got one pair of jeans, so what are we gonna do here? You know, like, not your fault, but maybe you're carrying.
[21:04]
Kevin Owens
Maybe you're carrying too many. I see it in my head clearly, it's not your fault. Maybe you're carrying too many. Many. And he's laughing maniacally, super intimidating like.
[21:14]
Corey Graves
Yeah, it is his fault. And like, the guy feels bad already. But the way you're saying is Making it far worse. Like, please, let's end this. But what ended it actually was show in a very giant fashion show is sitting Athena's table, watching it all. It's all happening together. And then of course, did he offer Randy his jeans? No, because his chair shattered. His chair shattered and he falls to the floor. And the problem then became he can't get up because we're all flocked into this table. And so then to make it right on stage is a prop chair. There's a stage in the big Texan. It's this prop big oak throne that they use. Like, hey, get the big Texan. Come get your picture up here. They brought it down for him to sit in and he was like, I'm fine. I can sit in a regular chair. I'm fine. And it was just an amazing, like everything right happened. If you were going to attend an all talent event, like everything right happened but the milk, then the fall. But his face was the same when he stepped through the table. And I always thought, oh, man, I learned. Have you ever heard the hey, I don't want to do comedy story? Have I ever told you that story?
[22:19]
Kevin Owens
Big Show?
[22:20]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[22:21]
Kevin Owens
No. But I can imagine knowing Paul went.
[22:25]
Corey Graves
Strong on that one. Okay. So I wrestled show 11 nights before.
[22:29]
Kevin Owens
You go into this, just cause it's. We're hovering around the topic of Big show breaking a chair.
[22:33]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[22:34]
Kevin Owens
Did you ever hear the story of him breaking the chair because of me? And that's the moment he knew he liked me. And I entered Big Show's golden circle at that point.
[22:42]
Cody Rhodes
Yes.
[22:43]
Kevin Owens
So I'm in NXT at the time and we're having our first out of state show at the Arnold Classic.
[22:50]
Corey Graves
Huge deal, baby.
[22:51]
Kevin Owens
Yeah, huge deal for nxt. But before the Arnold Classic and we're going to have shows there, we had a TV taping. I want to say Cleveland maybe. Maybe it was a Columbus, I'm not even sure. But we're in this building, you know, not a huge building, but NXT starting to garner some, you know, starting to get some steam. But still, in order to make sure there's a lot of people there, they booked a main roster match. No offense to show. Probably the worst match main roster match to book on that NXT show, considering what NXT flavors are very different.
[23:23]
Corey Graves
Flavors are very different.
[23:25]
Kevin Owens
So the crowd was not kind to them. Yeah, unfortunately. But they had a good match. Just wasn't the kind of wrestling they were there to see. So Sho comes back after and he, you know, I don't know him at all. At that point, I can tell he's not too happy. You know, he's a little down. He's not upset, he's just a little down that, you know, didn't get the most positive response. I was wrestling one Alex Riley.
[23:48]
Corey Graves
Okay.
[23:49]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[23:49]
Corey Graves
That Alex Riley.
[23:50]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[23:51]
Kevin Owens
Intense individual, right?
[23:52]
Corey Graves
Very.
[23:54]
Kevin Owens
So I'm wrestling him. He's the babyface. Nobody likes him. They like me.
[24:00]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[24:01]
Kevin Owens
So whatever, I'm wrestling him. I put him away with a pop of powerbomb. That wasn't quite a pop of powerbomb because he didn't. Didn't really get up for it.
[24:09]
Corey Graves
So it was whatever it was half up powerbomb.
[24:12]
Kevin Owens
Then Finn Balor comes out to stop me from attacking Alex Riley some more after the match.
[24:19]
Corey Graves
Oh, you were picking the bones.
[24:20]
Kevin Owens
Riley rolls out of the ring to the floor. Finn puts me down, goes up top. He's about to hit me with his coup de grass.
[24:27]
Corey Graves
Kud Gr.
[24:28]
Kevin Owens
Cud. Grass.
[24:29]
Corey Graves
Coup de grass.
[24:29]
Kevin Owens
It's French.
[24:30]
Corey Graves
Coup de grass.
[24:31]
Kevin Owens
Coup de grass.
[24:32]
Corey Graves
Kud grass.
[24:33]
Kevin Owens
It's actually coup de grass. Yeah. Anyway, I roll out, run away.
[24:39]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[24:39]
Kevin Owens
And as I turn the corner, cuz the way the ring is, there's a stage, just like at the steakhouse probably. I have to run around up the and then to go through the entrance.
[24:51]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[24:51]
Kevin Owens
But as I cut the corner, Alex Riley happens to be on the ground selling. So as I pass, I throw a kick at him. Sho saw it.
[25:01]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[25:01]
Kevin Owens
Thought it was the funniest thing. Burst out laughing, broke his chair right then and there. Come back to him on the ground, dying of laughter. Everybody circled around trying to pick him up. Hunter comes to tell me that the kick you threw at Riley was so funny. Sho broke his chair.
[25:18]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[25:18]
Kevin Owens
And show told me right then and there, you're in forever. It was so good. You're in. And later. And since then, still we keep in touch. One of the kindest people. Just because I made him laugh.
[25:29]
Corey Graves
I remember the kick. And I also think it's funny that the reason the chair broke is because just the added moment of him laughing caused it to break. He was so this.
[25:40]
Kevin Owens
Yes.
[25:40]
Corey Graves
He was so helpful.
[25:41]
Kevin Owens
I don't want to be comedy.
[25:42]
Corey Graves
So 11 shows, the old school Europe tours, you know, you'd go 17 days door to door, you do four or five shows, you'd do TV, you do the other. After a while they'd split it. Where like one guy was not on both tours, but in the beginning, you were on the whole loop. And I wrestled show every single night. And we were outside of our WrestleMania match. But now we were pretty much married together and one night this rubber chicken comes in the ring and he's feeding me with his rubber chicken. Fan through it, fan through it. And like, I remember him telling me, like, feed up. And he just smacks me across the face with it and then spit soda on me. I mean, it's just a real, a real mess. And I decided I'm gonna stand up for myself tomorrow. I've, I've got. This is too much. This is too much.
[26:29]
Kevin Owens
So you were the one that said, I don't want to do comedy.
[26:31]
Corey Graves
So what I told him, and I'll never forget it. And it was one of the greatest lessons I've ever learned in the wrestling business, in any business. I told him we were in the locker room at a show that randomly Phil Collins was at as well. I'm sitting there and he comes in, I go, hey, you know, I don't really wanna do haha anymore, I don't. And he just kinda went like, says, okay, well can I tell you what to do then? I said, yes, please. I'm thinking, I've, we've walked this bridge, we're good. He goes, well, get over then. And he leaves. And I thought, great, great, yep, that's 100%. And then that night we did more comedy than we've ever done before. I mean, the chicken somehow was back. It was at more than ever, and the crowd was coming in a way that afterwards he goes, I don't know much, but did you hear him? And I said, yes, I did. He goes, that's when you come back here. And this is, was so true, and especially in Europe, because I've had such a wonderful experience in Europe. He goes, when you come back here, they'll remember that, they'll like you, they'll respect you, you've built an equity with them. And I know he was telling me, he's like, I know you don't believe me. You probably think it's, you know, just filler, but I'm telling you. And he was totally right. And I'll never forget it. It was one of the best things ever. He. It's so funny that you're talking about Big show because you and Big show were two of the first people to literally raise their hand and say, what do you need? To me. So Big show set me on the, the Hollywood path. Hey, go meet my agent at A.P.A. jeff, which is a great legendary agent in LA. Go meet him, tell him what you want to do. Just a general meeting. He's my guy. Tell him you've left wwe. You're looking to get out there. He'll set you up on some meetings. And he did. And it was prolific and it worked out. And I had no brand value compared. It's just coming from wwe. These weren't wrestling people. I was walking into their world. And then you, of course, and we have to talk about it being here in this conversation with you, you, of course, told me, if you can talk to Madden, Nick, Mad Nick, Jackson, the Young Bucks, and see, see, you know, if there's anything there. Because we were going to be in the same places. We were going to be at Ring of Honor together. The Bullet Club thing had been decided, or maybe it even hadn't at that point.
[28:51]
Kevin Owens
I don't think it had.
[28:52]
Corey Graves
But I remember telling them because we. We got along and nice, but obviously Matt and Nick were kind of their own enterprise. They were doing their own thing, killing the business, all their, Their. Their stuff.
[29:03]
Kevin Owens
Well, so they were right after I left the independent scene, and I was at the top of the indies when I left. They were the guys that were right behind me and took that spot. And before me was Colt. So I blew. Like, my blueprint was I basically listened to a lot of Colt's advice.
[29:22]
Corey Graves
Sure.
[29:22]
Kevin Owens
Colt made me join Twitter. I didn't want anything to do with social media.
[29:26]
Corey Graves
Well, God bless him for that.
[29:27]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[29:28]
Kevin Owens
But at the time, he was like, get on Twitter, tweet every day. You gotta. Like, this is how you're gonna grow your. Your following this and that. He was ahead of the curve.
[29:37]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[29:38]
Kevin Owens
Colt created the Colt. I'm the reason why pro wrestling tees exists.
[29:47]
Corey Graves
I believe it.
[29:47]
Kevin Owens
Because at the time. Thanks. You're welcome.
[29:50]
Corey Graves
Thanks. Colt kept a lot of money.
[29:52]
Kevin Owens
Colt kept telling me, you gotta get T shirts and sell merch.
[29:55]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[29:56]
Kevin Owens
Because I. What happened is in 2012, I stopped my day job. Couldn't work there anymore. Had to go full in wrestling. Wrestling's gonna be my sole source of income.
[30:04]
Corey Graves
Sure.
[30:05]
Kevin Owens
I have a kid. I need. Like, I need it. I lost my job. I don't know what to do. Colt's like, get merch. Like, I don't. I can't afford it. I can't afford to pay $500 to have all these T shirts made. Like, what do I do? Colt talked to, at the time, the owner of One Hour Tees.
[30:20]
Corey Graves
Ryan.
[30:21]
Kevin Owens
Ryan.
[30:21]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[30:22]
Kevin Owens
And told him, look, he had this idea. He's like, some wrestlers cannot afford to make shirts up ahead of time.
[30:29]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[30:29]
Kevin Owens
And then they came up with this concept because of me. Was trying to help me.
[30:34]
Corey Graves
Oh, wow.
[30:35]
Kevin Owens
And then the first on. The first ones on the site were me, Bucks, Colt.
[30:40]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[30:40]
Kevin Owens
And then the site grew and grew and grew.
[30:42]
Corey Graves
I got bummed out. By the way, recently, they took my. Finally. I had been on the storefront forever and they.
[30:48]
Kevin Owens
Your face was still on there.
[30:49]
Corey Graves
Me and Brandy were still on there.
[30:51]
Kevin Owens
How did no one get furious about this before?
[30:53]
Corey Graves
I joked with him like, ah, that makes sense. But in my heart, I wanted to tell him, hey, I wish I was still up there just because that was.
[31:01]
Kevin Owens
Such a. I also got sad when they took me down after I left.
[31:04]
Corey Graves
It was a fun thing.
[31:05]
Kevin Owens
We were the pioneers.
[31:06]
Corey Graves
Yeah. I mean, you, You. The fact that that exists. So many people, not just wrestlers anymore. So many people. What you're talking about specifically is making a ton of shirts versus a print to like, print. To order.
[31:20]
Kevin Owens
On demand.
[31:21]
Corey Graves
On demand. So, hey, they want 40, you know, they want 300 shirts have been ordered overnight. Great. We can print them versus making them, sending them to you, paying for them and having to go out and sell them all.
[31:32]
Kevin Owens
Yeah. Because you're. It's a. It's an investment. You're taking a gamble.
[31:35]
Corey Graves
Gamble.
[31:36]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[31:36]
Kevin Owens
But then, you know, for me, what was amazing about that website was from that point on, Ring of Honor got mad at me at the time. Joe cough, bless him, great guy. But we got into it about it because at that time, all I would say was, this is my version of the Undertaker's WrestleMania streak, which I've sold a shirt every single day since that website opened. And I just. Every day I would tweet streak. I would tweet the streak's. I think today's the day that the streak ends. And always somebody will go, oh, I'll go buy a shirt. Which I never lied. Never. Not once did I tweet. I think the streak's ending today. If a shirt had been sold that day. But if I tweeted, haven't sold a shirt today, I think the streak's over.
[32:18]
Corey Graves
Not only somebody would show up.
[32:19]
Kevin Owens
Not just one person would, though, because everybody would want to help. So I sell 50 shirts just like that.
[32:25]
Corey Graves
Crazy.
[32:25]
Kevin Owens
I was paying my rent every month. I wouldn't have to worry about my rent anymore because of this. Anyway, so the blueprint was I followed Colt's advice. And then after I left the bucks, they had made themselves into this entity, this act that it didn't matter where they were going. They were a must see. People were gonna pay money to see them. And on the independent scene that was a rare.
[32:47]
Corey Graves
Oh, my God.
[32:48]
Kevin Owens
It was a rare thing.
[32:49]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[32:49]
Kevin Owens
That. To the point where. I remember 2 cw. You wrestled for 2 cw. This guy Josh. Anyway, I loved working for them. They literally were trying to book the Bucks. They were trying to book the Bucks for one of their shows. Couldn't book them Thursdays, Fridays, Saturdays. They were just too busy Sundays every. So they put a show on a Tuesday and they called it. We're having a show on a Tuesday night because it's literally the only date the Young Bucks were available for.
[33:16]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[33:17]
Kevin Owens
And they sold out on a Tuesday night in the middle of the school week.
[33:20]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[33:21]
Kevin Owens
So they were. That's why when you left, I said, these are the guys you need to. Yeah, whatever you. And, you know, at that point, I've been back in WWE a year and a half, two years, so I wasn't super in touch with the independent scene anymore. I don't know what changed. I don't know what hasn't. But I know what hasn't changed is that these guys are the most successful.
[33:41]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[33:41]
Kevin Owens
And they'll help you, because I know they're good guys. They're great guys. They will help you. And, you know, God couldn't have guessed what would come out of it.
[33:51]
Corey Graves
Again, it's uncharted. It's uncharted.
[33:53]
Kevin Owens
Your face is on a vodka bomb.
[33:54]
Corey Graves
Cheers to Matt, Nick. Cheers. For sure. They deserve that. You mentioned a bunch of stuff that I wanted to kind of, like, jump in on, but one of them was the face of the independents. You were the face. Colt was the face. They were the face. I enjoyed that moment. Who do you think now in 2025, is the face of the independents?
[34:12]
Kevin Owens
Man, I don't even. I can't tell you because I don't.
[34:16]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[34:16]
Kevin Owens
I don't follow it enough. And I. I do. Like, I'm a huge wrestling fan. I try to follow as much wrestling as I can.
[34:22]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[34:23]
Kevin Owens
Everything's changed so much.
[34:24]
Corey Graves
It really has. It really.
[34:26]
Kevin Owens
It almost feels. And I know I'm gonna get, you know, in relative trouble for this with the fans.
[34:30]
Corey Graves
Oh, buddy. But welcome to my life.
[34:33]
Kevin Owens
I don't. It almost feels like there is no independent scene anymore. And I know there is. I just don't know enough about it because it's just not what it used to be. A lot of it is because independent talents of the last few years have been signed, you know, so they're somewhere. I don't know. And I'm not saying there's no independent standouts. I just don't Know, I just don't know them. And, you know, probably a lot of it is I have less time to pay attention to wrestling, but I. I wish I had an answer. I really don't. I don't really know who's out there.
[35:02]
Corey Graves
I feel like. So here's something that's kind of caused me a little bit of pause is looking at it. And that spot was very clear, what you just described. Colt Kevin. It was clear because anytime a promotion couldn't get you on a date, I remember, for me, it was Wrestle Circus. They couldn't get me. And I said, this is the one.
[35:24]
Kevin Owens
Texas.
[35:24]
Cody Rhodes
Yep.
[35:25]
Corey Graves
I said, this is the one date I have. Can I. Can you do this? I know it doesn't fit. And they said for that they made a show for me to come to. And I remember I had a bunch of caveats. Like, we did a Austin Pets Alive. I had shelter dogs and rescue dogs there, and one of the basset hounds, he got brought home. I was so happy because he was walking around with, like, a adopt me vest on. Amongst hardcore wrestling fans, I'm like, please, someone adopt this basset hound. And the girl. This is crazy. There's photos of it. The girl from Austin Pets Alive got in the ring with me after to say, hey, this Chihuahua, some rescue Chihuahua. And I had done a tax spot. So there's tacks. There's one in the back of my head, there's one in my elbow. I'm bleeding from my back. And I could see her face, she was shaking when she got in the ring. Like, what is this? And why are people. Why do they want the dogs? And I was like, yeah, like, the wrestling fans love dogs. They love dogs, they love cats. Like, it ended up a couple dogs went home that night. But, yeah, that's always a huge moment. So I would say, I'd shout out, and I know you're gonna be like, I think Matt Cardona has held the spot. But what concerns me is why would I be, Er. I don't know. You and him had kind of a Rocky.
[36:35]
Kevin Owens
No, we don't. I love Matt.
[36:37]
Corey Graves
The only thing I'll say is I didn't know that.
[36:39]
Kevin Owens
For a guy who loves being on the Indies so much, he sure talks about how much he wants to be back in WWE a lot, that's all. You can't call yourself King of the Indies. You're going out there telling people. I don't know why WWE hasn't signed me. I don't get it. If I. If I was them, I definitely would have signed me. Are you happy or not? Dude, that's it. I love Matt. No problems. Don't like his tan. Told him this to his face.
[37:04]
Corey Graves
You don't like a good wrestler tan?
[37:05]
Kevin Owens
No. Bron Breakker should be arrested.
[37:08]
Corey Graves
What? Are you offended about Bron's tan? Is it more the color or is it the fact that he is not putting his arms up in the tanning bin?
[37:14]
Kevin Owens
None of it's good.
[37:15]
Cody Rhodes
Okay.
[37:15]
Kevin Owens
None of it's good.
[37:17]
Corey Graves
You don't like the tan?
[37:18]
Kevin Owens
No, dude, you weren't born that color. I understand if you want to be a little darker.
[37:21]
Corey Graves
Bro, I've wrestled with eight shades darker.
[37:25]
Kevin Owens
Yeah. What do you mean you've done?
[37:27]
Corey Graves
Yeah.
[37:27]
Kevin Owens
Okay. Well, I'm sure I would have judged you at that time, too, but I happened to. Didn't see those. But also, if. If your tan looks like it could re. It could rub off on someone else.
[37:35]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[37:35]
Kevin Owens
It's too much.
[37:36]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[37:37]
Kevin Owens
You know what I hate the most is when I go in the locker room, try to go to the restroom before a match. I'm walking. I've got my boots. Oh, this slit.
[37:46]
Corey Graves
Okay.
[37:47]
Kevin Owens
Layer of fake tanner.
[37:48]
Corey Graves
What you're specifically describing is quick tan. Which is what?
[37:52]
Kevin Owens
I don't care what the method is. Anything that makes you look like that, and then you don't clean up after.
[37:57]
Corey Graves
Yourself or it's hard to clean up.
[37:59]
Kevin Owens
What about the guys who go trim their beards or their armpits in front of the mirror before the show and just leave the hair there?
[38:06]
Corey Graves
No good psychopaths. Here's. Okay, so you're mentioning Quicktan, which is a product that a lot of wrestlers use, and I've used it before. It's a really fine mist, but it does get on the floor where you can't see it, and it is slippery as can be.
[38:22]
Kevin Owens
It's the scratch. So wrestlers who ends up on the ring because you walk in it or you guys sweat it off ends up in the ring everywhere.
[38:31]
Corey Graves
Depends on when you put it on the wrestler you're talking about specifically, the one who's causing a slippery floor and a mess is the dude who throws it on. 30 minutes.
[38:40]
Kevin Owens
That's everyone.
[38:40]
Corey Graves
Dude, not everyone.
[38:41]
Kevin Owens
I should be doing this shit. And no. Who am I fooling?
[38:44]
Corey Graves
I gotta be. I wanna just rewind us a second. Cause Quick Dan is a big discussion. But we mentioned Matt Cardona.
[38:52]
Kevin Owens
Yeah.
[38:52]
Corey Graves
And you. You mentioned. I would say he's one of my five.
[38:56]
Kevin Owens
Okay. So you know how I know this?
[38:58]
Corey Graves
How?
[38:58]
Kevin Owens
You never invite me. You never invite me when you. You when you go with them to Disney. Never invite me.
[39:04]
Corey Graves
You've been to Disney and then you. Japan.
[39:05]
Kevin Owens
Then you blame Matt for it. Did you know this, Matt? This always blames you. Says Matt doesn't want you there. Correct.
[39:13]
Corey Graves
I have never.
[39:14]
Kevin Owens
Truth.
[39:15]
Corey Graves
I don't think I've ever. I don't think I've ever said Matt. Does it.
[39:18]
Kevin Owens
Well, liar.
[39:19]
Corey Graves
No, well, I mean, you. You went to disneysea with me in Japan.
[39:24]
Kevin Owens
That's right. In Japan, when you knew Matt was gonna be nowhere near around. And then we couldn't corroborate our stories and realize you're full of shit.
[39:31]
Corey Graves
I'll actually reel this podcast completely in and ask you about. You said when we were talking about the independent wrestling scene, you said you did not have the Rhodes name. There's a reason why I kind of chuckled in that moment.
[39:43]
Kevin Owens
Because on the independence, you couldn't use it.
[39:45]
Corey Graves
Well. No, no. In the moment. The reason I'm chuckling is because there is a photo that's out there on the Internet.
[39:50]
Kevin Owens
The family photo.
[39:51]
Corey Graves
Yes. Of my entire family.
[39:53]
Kevin Owens
That's right.
[39:53]
Corey Graves
Standing with the dusty statue. And right at the end.
[39:56]
Kevin Owens
I'm glad you bring that up.
[39:57]
Corey Graves
Right at the end is one who is technically not family, but to me is family.
[40:02]
Kevin Owens
Okay.
[40:03]
Corey Graves
And that's you.
[40:04]
Kevin Owens
That's nice. Yes. But recently I heard you tell that story, the story of the photo on WWE programming, and you definitely, for sure, let people believe that I just jumped into the picture without being invited into it, which is inaccurate. Just like your retelling of me kicking out at one from the disaster kick when that was one John Moxley.
[40:26]
Cody Rhodes
Ah.
[40:27]
Corey Graves
Yeah. I needed it to be you.
[40:28]
Kevin Owens
I was the only. And look, I loved your dad. You know this.
[40:32]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[40:32]
Kevin Owens
And everyone in NXT loved your dad.
[40:34]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[40:35]
Kevin Owens
But the morning where they unveiled a statue at 9am at Access1 NXT, guy that showed up, it was me, because I wanted to see it. I wanted to see the statue. And I'm ringside with the fans. And you go, kevin, get in here. I go, no, like, get in here. All right. Get in the picture. And then you spend years letting people think that I just jumped into your family picture and ruined this special moment.
[40:59]
Corey Graves
I invited you into the photo. I invited you in the photo. I invited Kevin into the photo.
[41:04]
Kevin Owens
This better make it. Do not edit that out.
[41:07]
Corey Graves
And why I invited you into the photo was because I felt like if you look at the NXT class of the Dusties kids, there's like, a really small percentage. Actually, he coached a lot and he did A lot of promo work with a lot. But there's really a small percentage that he connected with and he linked with in a way that. That's. That's my guy, that's my girl, you know, And I think probably Bailey, Becky, Colby, I feel like it was. It was small. It was a short amount of people that he would go to a show or he would go to a Triple H or somebody and say, I can take this person. I can get them where they need to go. And you were somebody that was really special to him. Yeah. And it wasn't a matter of. Sometimes with Dusty's kids, I would be jealous of them. And other times I would look at it and go, oh, I like that. I. That I'm so glad he connected with that person because I don't know if you know what he would write for. Like, for example, I know what he wrote for Daniel Bryan. It's so crazy. Like, they. They have these reports. Some of them are. They leaked online recently, but these reports. And I remember what he wrote for Daniel Bryan and one of his reports was, why is this guy here? He's ready to be on the main roster. That's it.
[42:27]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[42:28]
Corey Graves
So I could tell there was no love. Sure. He definitely knew. He's ready. He's good. He doesn't need to be here. But when it would come to one of his people, man, you know, like, how he would talk about Corey Graves, how he would talk about you. It was. It was a really. He needed that. And I always thought, like, again, here you are. You're the only one who showed up for the statue. Unveiling of the statue.
[42:53]
Kevin Owens
I mean, a lot of them were probably busy doing stuff at accident.
[42:55]
Corey Graves
For what it's worth, also, the statue in my family is a rather polarizing statue.
[42:59]
Kevin Owens
Statue.
[42:59]
Corey Graves
Because my mom is not a fan. But all of us thought like, oh, we love it. It's great. That's a good shot of him, you know.
[43:05]
Kevin Owens
You know, I think I had an unfair advantage on. In terms of becoming one of Dusty's guys. Right. Is. And this is a very cherished memory I have. It was outside the PC.
[43:16]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[43:17]
Kevin Owens
I got signed to NXT in July of 2014. Officially, I got told May. My tryout was in March of 2014. May. May 12, 2014. Canyon Seaman called me.
[43:30]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[43:31]
Kevin Owens
Told me we're gonna sign you July, end of July. They brought me in just for a weekend. There was going to be an NXT television taping Thursday. They wanted me on Wednesday. Come to the taping Thursday.
[43:45]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[43:45]
Kevin Owens
Go home Friday. And then, you know, a lot of the class, a lot of my crop that was getting signed were going to start in December, but I told them I have to start before that because my kids would start school in August. Yeah, I don't want to bring them to the US to a new school system in the middle of the school year. So it's okay. We'll start you in August. So I got brought in that weekend with Finn and Hideo, Kenta and Fergle, and it was super awkward because what happened? So we just basically trained a few times that week with, you know, some of the classes.
[44:25]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[44:26]
Kevin Owens
And then we went to the next show, the TV taping. And at the end of the taping, you know, it's the Full Sail Auditorium. So Hunter is having a speech to all the NXT guys. He literally sits the auditorium split. There's two sections and a staircase in between that goes down. Hunter's at the bottom of the staircase. Sits every single NXT people on one side and sits me, Fergal and Kenta on the other side.
[44:52]
Corey Graves
Just the three of us putting the pressure on.
[44:53]
Kevin Owens
And he goes, NXT is becoming something different, something new. Everyone's got to be at the top of their game.
[44:59]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[45:00]
Kevin Owens
Because you see those three, they're going to change everything. It's like those three come out, three of you go out. The next day they fire five people. But I remember seeing that the next day at the airport. I sat, I was sitting at the gate, just flying back home. And I had a very stressful day that morning because my flight was like 2:3pm but that morning I'm like, okay, now I gotta find a house for my family and I gotta find a school for my kids. They're starting in three weeks. So I have to find a house to move into that's big enough for my whole family and I. And figure out what their school's gonna be. So I basically, at 7 in the morning that Friday, I went, I looked on a website. What's the best schools in Orlando? Best elementary school is this one. I went to that neighborhood which happened to be 20 minutes from the PC and I looked. Okay, on whatever. Zillow, whatever website.
[45:51]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[45:52]
Kevin Owens
Houses for sale, for rent. Because I couldn't buy. Yeah, okay, there's a house up there. Then I went and tried to visit, but, you know, can't visit a house in the matter of 20 minutes.
[46:01]
Corey Graves
Whatever. No, no.
[46:03]
Kevin Owens
And then I go to the airport. I'm super stressed because I'm trying to make this happen. And I'm sitting and I see WWE's release 4 NXT, 5 NXT talent. I'm like, holy shit. They weren't joking.
[46:12]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[46:13]
Kevin Owens
And then I swear, it was so weird. Somebody sits down next to me. So, what do you think? And I turn, and it's Dusty. He was on his way to a convention, and we're on the same flight, and then we spent an hour talking. He's like, whoa, what. What are you doing? Because he was looking at me. He saw me looking at houses. So I explained this whole thing to him. I got to figure out a way to get my kids into this school. They're moving in from Canada. Got to figure out whatever needs to happen for them to be in that school. Got to figure out a house to rent, all this stuff. And in that moment, he told me, no way you can do it. No way you can make that happen. It's not gonna happen. You have three weeks. Can't do it. Showed up the PC my first day, opened the door and goes, did you do it? I go, I did. I knew you would. You know what I mean? And then that was it. We spent an hour talking in that airport, just about life, about family, about everything. Not one talk about. Not one word about wrestling.
[47:09]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[47:09]
Kevin Owens
And that was it, man. I showed up a month later, and it was like I hadn't seen him for a month, but it was just like, you know what I mean? I could already tell there was something.
[47:19]
Corey Graves
Do you know what it was like? Do you know what. What he probably sensed?
[47:24]
Kevin Owens
I mean, I remember him telling me that he could feel my family was the real motivation behind all this.
[47:32]
Corey Graves
So that's. I feel like he grew up in a generation. He. He kind of thrived in a generation where it was almost in spite of your family. And I don't mean that. I guess your family was supported, but you were out there, you were doing it, you were living it, and we did it differently. He was very much, this is for my family. Like, this is for them. And, you know, I like, to me, is the greatest wrestler of all time. And. And that's why, you know, like, I don't think I got good at this, Kevin, until I had Liberty, you know? Like, I don't think I saw why. Sorry. I don't think I saw why I wanted to do it. Everything else was like, oh, I can get ahead of him. I can get ahead of her, whatever it may be. But then when I had Liberty, I thought, like, I don't need any of that.
[48:23]
Kevin Owens
Yeah. Because it becomes about making sure somebody Else has a good life as opposed to your own personal. Yeah, I want to be. I want to show that I'm a top guy.
[48:31]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[48:31]
Kevin Owens
Gives a if you're a top guy.
[48:33]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[48:33]
Kevin Owens
You know what I mean? But you don't see that until later. And like, I was the same way, man. Like, I was obsessed with wrestling my whole life.
[48:42]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[48:42]
Kevin Owens
And I remember this guy, Neil, he used to wrestle in the Independence back in Canada's beef Wellington.
[48:48]
Corey Graves
I know beef Wellington.
[48:49]
Cody Rhodes
Right.
[48:49]
Corey Graves
I know the ass punch Wellington. Yeah. Yeah.
[48:52]
Kevin Owens
So we were friends. We were friendly. We're friends now. But at the time, I can't say. Here's a tissue.
[48:58]
Corey Graves
Thanks. I can't start my own damn show.
[49:00]
Kevin Owens
I can't say we were friends. Like, we had a bit because to his. In his opinion, I was a bit of an.
[49:06]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[49:07]
Kevin Owens
When I was training for wrestling before, I had a family.
[49:10]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[49:10]
Kevin Owens
And maybe I was, because I knew I was. I knew I was the best in Quebec along with Sammy.
[49:17]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[49:18]
Kevin Owens
So I don't know. Maybe I was a bit arrogant. Maybe not. I probably was. I'll own to it. I was immature. I was immature as well. So his. His, His. In his opinion, I was an asshole. Okay. But I remember him telling me years later and telling other people once Owen was born, my son was born.
[49:36]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[49:36]
Kevin Owens
He's like, I changed completely. And he's like, from that point on, I've never had a problem with you because you were a different person.
[49:41]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[49:42]
Kevin Owens
And even when wrestling came into play, you. Everything was different. The way you saw wrestling, the way you act about wrestling. Because also, he would run or he would book a company, iws, back in Canada. And. Yeah, before Owen, I guess I was a certain way about it. And then after Owen, it was about trying to make money and trying to make sure that this kid has stuff to eat and toys to play with and. Right. You said it really does change everything.
[50:07]
Corey Graves
Yeah. No.
[50:08]
Kevin Owens
Yeah.
[50:09]
Corey Graves
You said a good life.
[50:10]
Kevin Owens
Yeah.
[50:11]
Corey Graves
Good life. I. We mentioned our Disney trip. We went to Tokyo. DisneySea, you and I. And I remember it was fun because I got to. You got to see it kind of through my eyes with Liberty. But also Owen was there, so we got to hang out and talk to him.
[50:28]
Kevin Owens
You remember I texted you after.
[50:29]
Corey Graves
Yeah, I do.
[50:30]
Kevin Owens
Yeah. I told you I wish I could speak to my son the way you talk to him, because raising a kid is amazing, but difficult, even if they're a good kid.
[50:42]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[50:42]
Kevin Owens
Owen's an amazing kid, but it's tricky, man.
[50:45]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[50:46]
Kevin Owens
Always worried about them up. Always worried about Doing something wrong. Saying something wrong.
[50:50]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[50:51]
Kevin Owens
And that summer, I took him to Japan for the first time. It was a dream of his to go to Japan.
[50:57]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[50:59]
Kevin Owens
WWE was kind enough to pay for his whole travel, first class, everything. Incredible. So I brought him with me. And then we went on that Disney trip with you. And just seeing you guys interact, I was like, man, I wish I could interact with him the way you did. But then I kind of realized later on, like, it's not my role. You know what I mean? Well, I feel like, yeah, it was a great day, man. To this day, still just. It was just such a great experience to first of all, be with you.
[51:28]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[51:29]
Kevin Owens
Hang out with you. Hang out with Brandi. Liberty was a little standoffish.
[51:36]
Corey Graves
That photo of her is so great.
[51:38]
Kevin Owens
I still think she was looking at Masa and you.
[51:41]
Corey Graves
It might have been.
[51:42]
Kevin Owens
I'm telling you, she was looking at Masa, not me.
[51:44]
Corey Graves
Masa. And when I say we were. We were on that trip with fat ass Masa.
[51:48]
Kevin Owens
Yes.
[51:48]
Corey Graves
We say that. That's not a joke. That is the name. He likes to be referred to as fat ass Masa, my friend. You know what's so funny about you saying to me, I wish my. You know, I wish Owen would talk to you like he is.
[52:02]
Kevin Owens
Well, he talks. It's. It's. He talks to me great. But I don't think I have. I couldn't. I, like, it's so weird, man. The way you connected with him.
[52:14]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[52:15]
Kevin Owens
Is the way I wish I could connect with him. But then I realized, well, it's like. It's a different thing, too.
[52:19]
Corey Graves
There is dad.
[52:20]
Kevin Owens
There's a different role. Exactly.
[52:22]
Corey Graves
So the way my dad connected with you.
[52:24]
Cody Rhodes
Right.
[52:24]
Corey Graves
I wish I could have connected with my dad.
[52:26]
Kevin Owens
Sure.
[52:27]
Corey Graves
But he was my dad. You're his dad.
[52:31]
Kevin Owens
Yeah.
[52:32]
Corey Graves
And buddy, already. Mission accomplished. A good life. I know we've got a lot ahead of us. Yeah, for sure. But, like, that's. Man, for. That was so much fun. So much fun. Oh, my gosh.
[52:44]
Cody Rhodes
Well, yeah.
[52:45]
Kevin Owens
It was a great time.
[52:46]
Corey Graves
Cheers, bud.
[52:47]
Kevin Owens
Cheers.
[52:48]
Corey Graves
Cheers. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Let's talk numbers. Traditional in person therapy can cost anywhere from 100 to $250 per session, which adds up fast. With BetterHelp online therapy, you can save, on average, up to 50% per session. With BetterHelp, you pay a flat fee for weekly sessions, saving you big on cost and on time. Therapy should feel accessible, not like a luxury. With online therapy, you get quality care at a price that makes sense and can help you with anything from anxiety to everyday stress, your mental health is worth it. And now it's within reach. With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform, having served over 5 million globally. It's convenient, too. You can join a session with the click of a button, helping you fit therapy into your busy life. Plus switch therapists at any time. Your well being is worth it. Visit betterhelp.com Cody to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H-E-L-P.com Cody, our mutual friend Kirschenbaum, he wanted me to ask you how your figure fed was doing, because I know you had a figure fed at one point and on the original KO show, before it ever came to WWE television, he wanted me to ask how it was doing because I know you used breaking real glass to simulate Steve Austin. I don't know if you. Do you have your figure fed anything?
[54:25]
Kevin Owens
It was a glass. I don't. I left my figures back home.
[54:29]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[54:30]
Kevin Owens
Now I do collect figures still, but of my friends, I know if I go to the store, I see a figure of one of my friends, I buy it. Eventually, when I feel settled in my house, which I am settled, I just haven't had to think of, I'll put them all up. And I'm like, yeah. People will look around and go, wow, look at me and my friends. Yeah, this is what we accomplish. Scott, figures of you. I got figures of, you know, I've got the bucks, I got Sammy, I've got Finn, I've got Becky, I've got Brit, I've got a lot of my friends. And I'm like, I can't wait to put all these up and think, man, look at all what me and my friends were managed to accomplish in our lives, you know? So I don't play with the figures anymore. But yeah, there's a famous clip on the Internet of me and one Jimmy Jacobs.
[55:13]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[55:14]
Kevin Owens
I love one of my brothers. One of the guys I would take a bullet for.
[55:17]
Corey Graves
For.
[55:18]
Kevin Owens
Where would you take the bullet for, Jimmy?
[55:20]
Corey Graves
Yeah, like, where is.
[55:21]
Kevin Owens
There's. Oh, well, I guess there are different levels, but I. Yeah, there's. There's. Head, heart, whatever.
[55:27]
Corey Graves
Gotcha.
[55:28]
Kevin Owens
Okay. Other guys probably in the shin. The knee.
[55:30]
Corey Graves
Yeah. Who's a shin guy?
[55:33]
Kevin Owens
Who's a shin guy? Well, okay, so in fairness, I got.
[55:36]
Corey Graves
A couple heart head guys, and then I got some shin guys. Sean Spears. I'm taking it in the ribs for. You know, I'm not. I'm not Going down fully. God bless Sean, you know, Julian, Ethan, Page, Shin, you know.
[55:47]
Kevin Owens
Oh, man. I'd run away from the.
[55:49]
Corey Graves
Oh, no.
[55:54]
Kevin Owens
That'S not true. I'd probably take a bullet for almost anybody. But it depends where.
[55:58]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[55:59]
Kevin Owens
If you tell me, I'm gonna shoot you in the foot. It's either I shoot you in the foot or I shoot Ethan in the head. I'm like, shoot me in the foot.
[56:04]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[56:04]
Kevin Owens
But if it's. I'll shoot you in the chest. Such a ridiculous. Can you run? You know, it's a ridiculous game.
[56:12]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[56:14]
Kevin Owens
You, Randy, Jimmy, Sammy, Ye. Finn, Becky. All in the heart.
[56:18]
Corey Graves
It's weird that you're friends with Finn, in my opinion. Not because. No, because he's an exceptional human being, one of my favorite people, and he's incredibly honest. He'll send me some messages that I will treasure for the rest of my life. Things that I'm like. Man, I'm so glad another peer said that to me. I needed him to say that to me at that time. I have messages from Fergle that I have saved that almost steal my resolve.
[56:44]
Kevin Owens
Yeah.
[56:45]
Corey Graves
But it just seems like. Because you're very different.
[56:47]
Kevin Owens
Yeah.
[56:48]
Corey Graves
Very different. But maybe that's.
[56:49]
Kevin Owens
We're actually. I don't think we're that different.
[56:51]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[56:52]
Kevin Owens
But I think to the. On the surface, we look like we're different.
[56:55]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[56:56]
Kevin Owens
But at the deeper core, we're actually very similar.
[56:58]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[56:59]
Kevin Owens
And I would say he's the person in. In my life, actually. Your dad. So I knew your dad for a very short time. I didn't have the pleasure of knowing him long, but I became very close to him very quickly. The next person right after that is Ferg. We became so close so quickly because the first time I met him, I had heard from him. I heard about him for years. The Bucks would talk about him, all this stuff. Never met him even. This is the funny part. The Bucks would talk about him so positively, so glowingly that I almost didn't like him.
[57:28]
Corey Graves
Yeah, of course. I know that feeling.
[57:29]
Kevin Owens
You know what I mean? Then I met him, I was like, oh, they're right. This guy rules. So anyway, he became a very good friend of mine very quickly. So, yeah, he's. Shoot me in the head, shoot me in the heart, Whatever you need. I forget where I was going with this.
[57:43]
Corey Graves
I love how we listed who's the shin people. Hey, well, I don't know where I rank on your heart.
[57:48]
Kevin Owens
Heart and head.
[57:49]
Corey Graves
Oh, good. Well, that'll make this next part even better.
[57:51]
Kevin Owens
But wait, where are we Going with this. There's a reason why we brought this up.
[57:55]
Corey Graves
I don't remember. It's what happens. The Wheatley American vodka. God bless him. It's not water dog.
[58:00]
Kevin Owens
Oh, yeah, the clip. Jimmy Jacobs. I get shot in the face for him any day, but I'm doing the interview with him. There's a very famous clip on YouTube where I talk about how when I was younger, I would play with my figures. And this one particular day, I wanted to capture the essence of Stone Cold's entrance.
[58:18]
Corey Graves
Of course.
[58:18]
Kevin Owens
What do I need to do? Playing the music's not enough. I want an actual glass break. But I chose a coffee mug, which. It's not glass.
[58:26]
Corey Graves
No, that's different. Ceramic.
[58:28]
Kevin Owens
And I threw it at the wall, which was just drywall.
[58:30]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[58:30]
Kevin Owens
Not brick. Didn't break. Just got encased, literally. This is the noise. And the best part. At the time, we were living with my grandparents. My grandmother. My dad's at work. My grandmother is sitting on her rocking chair, thankfully, blissfully unaware of pretty much anything in life at that point. You know, she. Unless I yelled at her, grandma, pizza's here. She's not moving from that chair. Yeah, she didn't hear that. Just the mug just gets stuck in the wall.
[59:01]
Cody Rhodes
Wow.
[59:02]
Kevin Owens
My dad came home at that exact moment. The disappointment. And you know what the best part is? He doesn't remember it. I think he blocked it out of his head. He was so disappointed.
[59:11]
Corey Graves
You didn't know.
[59:12]
Kevin Owens
The disappointment in his mind when he saw this. And I'm telling Jimmy this story, and then I reveal. As he's taken a. I was waiting.
[59:21]
Corey Graves
Stunned, and briskly walled.
[59:23]
Kevin Owens
I saw. Let's do the energy. I saw him as he's about to take a sip of his drink. And I'm waiting. I'm kind of, you know, drawing it on because I want. As he's about to take a sip, I go, I was 17, lost. It came out of his nose, came out, spitzed it out everywhere. And I was. Then I tried to walk it back, by the way, in the clip, I go, okay, maybe you're not 17. Maybe, like, 14 or 15. I was 17. Might have been 18. It might have even been worse. But his reaction made me feel a little shameful, of course. But, yeah, I used to have an E. Fed. I don't anymore, but Jamie Noble still does. Has a great one.
[60:00]
Corey Graves
I don't know if we want to draw. He does.
[60:02]
Kevin Owens
What do you mean? We don't want to draw attention to it. Yes, we do.
[60:05]
Corey Graves
He does.
[60:05]
Kevin Owens
He loves to have more Attention on it. He does find Jamie Noble's Instagram. Is it Instagram?
[60:10]
Corey Graves
I think is where he's publishing.
[60:11]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[60:12]
Kevin Owens
This guy's booking shows the blow.
[60:14]
Corey Graves
Your talented producer, by the way. Right.
[60:16]
Kevin Owens
Great. Amazing.
[60:17]
Corey Graves
He's great.
[60:18]
Kevin Owens
I've tried to be attack team with him on television for years. The closest we came is when I punched Waller and Theory in the face at the same time. Jamie was part of it.
[60:27]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[60:27]
Kevin Owens
And I was like, that's it. This is our debut. We were on TV together. We're just gonna keep rolling with it.
[60:32]
Corey Graves
I like how you're trying to be a tag team with Jamie. One that I've been trying for years and just not gonna happen. I keep trying to get Abyss. Abyss into the Royal Rumble.
[60:40]
Kevin Owens
Well, yeah. It came so close one year.
[60:42]
Corey Graves
I know. I know. I just want.
[60:44]
Kevin Owens
I think it's too late.
[60:45]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[60:46]
Corey Graves
Some things are too late.
[60:47]
Kevin Owens
He lost too much weight.
[60:48]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[60:49]
Kevin Owens
He's. I think putting him in the ring at this point, when he walks that way would be illegal. But we love Chris. Chris Park.
[60:55]
Corey Graves
We do. We talked about him on the one with Priest because he's. He's such a unique producer agent to get just.
[61:03]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah. Uh.
[61:05]
Kevin Owens
Oh, well, during the Pandemic era, he was a producer a couple times for me.
[61:09]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[61:09]
Kevin Owens
And I'm the kind of guy who wants to figure shit out at the last second, last minute.
[61:14]
Corey Graves
We should talk about that, by the way.
[61:15]
Kevin Owens
Okay.
[61:16]
Corey Graves
We should talk about this. But I will tell you, me and you are polar opposites in terms of preparation.
[61:25]
Kevin Owens
Yeah.
[61:25]
Corey Graves
And you and Sammy, who we've. I've loved that we've gone this whole pod without really touching on amazing. Because clearly, Sammy.
[61:32]
Kevin Owens
So this is the stunt and walk away a little bit.
[61:34]
Corey Graves
Stun and walk away. Thank you, sir. Thank you again, our friends at Wheatley American Vodka. Thank you. Stun and walk away.
[61:40]
Kevin Owens
This is the most I've drank in at least five years, if not more. Five years. What am I saying?
[61:43]
Corey Graves
I can tell you. And I'm with you.
[61:47]
Cody Rhodes
Whoa.
[61:48]
Corey Graves
Stunning. Maybe run.
[61:50]
Kevin Owens
Well, No, I can't. Now more than ever, not run. But you and Sammy stun and definitely get a Uber home.
[61:56]
Corey Graves
You and Sammy are so. So on a different timetable. It's like rap time. I will be there at, like, noon and be thinking of what we're doing and then talk to the person that we're working with and whatever. And then Sammy. And here's. I want to completely round this out for people so they know there's really no wrong. There's really no right.
[62:17]
Kevin Owens
There's Definitely.
[62:19]
Corey Graves
But then, Sammy, there's a.
[62:21]
Kevin Owens
A right to 90 of the people and then there's a 10% that will not think we're wrong. But then.
[62:26]
Corey Graves
But no, no. Here's why I think it's. Here's why I think there's no wrong and no right. Because Sammy will be at the last minute wanting to show up at 3:30, wanting to change a fundamental massive.
[62:37]
Kevin Owens
40 seconds before we go out, right before.
[62:39]
Corey Graves
And he is taping his wrist as his music is playing.
[62:44]
Kevin Owens
No, but wait. What if we do this instead? Yeah, and then we're in gorilla. The music's playing. He's like, we gotta go. No, no, but here. No, but just duck that and then throw it. It's the. Okay, he got it. Did he get it?
[62:54]
Corey Graves
It's the opposite of my life.
[62:56]
Kevin Owens
Hey, Jamie, Jamie, can you tell the ref to tell him to duck and then throw? Yeah.
[63:01]
Corey Graves
It's the opposite of my life Are.
[63:03]
Kevin Owens
We saying too much?
[63:04]
Corey Graves
Not at all. And full of meat. Like, I've got my aminos. I stretch, stretched out I've oiled up, I'm ready to go. It's the opposite of my life but here's.
[63:11]
Kevin Owens
I never stretched.
[63:12]
Corey Graves
Here's what I've discovered, of course. Here's what I've discovered, especially with you and Sammy. You will go out there and it will still be magical. And it's one of those, like I use r Truth. I use miss. I'll use those two as an example. And obviously, Sammy, the. The process of putting something together might be difficult. The process of getting together and the whole conversation in the pre production might be arduous, but man, in the moment, gosh, that was magic. And Sammy, I will watch Sammy like a two seg, especially when I move to smackdown. He'll be in a two seg or a three seg match and I'll be watching him. And he is one of the few. Like, he almost reminds me of Barry Windham from back in the day. He's one of the few that if that crowd was a little subdued by seg2, they'll be awake. He's got him. And I'm like, dude, I don't do it the way he does it.
[64:06]
Kevin Owens
That was our job when we were RAW tag team champions, man. Or when we were tag team champions, we had a bit of a shit run. I remember before we won the titles, we kept saying, we just hope we can live up to the USO's, what the USO's did, and we didn't. But our role as Tag Team Champions at the time was closing out Raw, and it didn't matter. Raw's a long show.
[64:27]
Corey Graves
Give him something.
[64:28]
Kevin Owens
Three hours.
[64:29]
Corey Graves
Give them something.
[64:29]
Kevin Owens
Make sure they're awake by the end. And, dude, watch that bit. And we wrestle judgment day about 17 times.
[64:36]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[64:36]
Kevin Owens
We had them rocking every time. 95 of that credit for that goes to Sammy.
[64:42]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[64:43]
Kevin Owens
And it's funny because you keep bringing up Priest. No one hates that process.
[64:47]
Corey Graves
Oh, my God.
[64:48]
Kevin Owens
More than Damien Boring Water. He will. Oh, my God. I'm sorry.
[64:52]
Corey Graves
But here's the magic. You're in the match together.
[64:55]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[64:55]
Corey Graves
So oil and water. And then you get out there and like. Ah.
[64:57]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[64:58]
Kevin Owens
And then we come back and they're like, it worked. I'm like, of course it worked.
[65:01]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[65:01]
Kevin Owens
I'm glad you brought up Miz, though, cuz. You know what, dude?
[65:03]
Corey Graves
Never count him out, dude.
[65:05]
Kevin Owens
There's a guy. If there's one guy that doesn't get enough credit, yeah, it's him. Even me. I'll fully admit this, and I. I think I've told Mike before. I watched WWE from the outside looking in when I was independent wrestler, hoping to get to wwe.
[65:18]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[65:18]
Kevin Owens
And I'd see Miz and go, how the is this Guy Main eventing WrestleMania? How the is this guy always in the top angles? How the. Dude, I know why. Once I worked once, I was like.
[65:31]
Corey Graves
That'S why he's amazing.
[65:33]
Kevin Owens
We talked about making everything work. He is the epitome of that amazing. He'll say yes to anything. He'll make it work. He'll do it good, and he'll. Dude, he has amazing matches.
[65:43]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[65:44]
Kevin Owens
He had a match with Gunther in Chicago.
[65:47]
Corey Graves
I remember.
[65:47]
Kevin Owens
Look at Miz. Do you think. You look at Gunther and you look at Miz, they got him. Do you think those guys. Do you look at Gunther, you think, hey, I can't wait to see him wrestle. Miss is probably the bottom of the list. Sure, dude. They killed it.
[65:59]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[66:00]
Kevin Owens
Killed it. And guess what? That's true with almost everyone. Miz can do that with anybody. It's funny because he does not get enough credit.
[66:07]
Corey Graves
I had one of the rare bad matches with him, and it's completely my fault. But I will say this. I had at the school one time, I had a kid, kind of. He said something snide about Mike, and I thought, you know what? This is a good teaching moment. And I walked out after I was done. I was like, hey, just so you know, if you look at the amount of time and equity and ability, and also, we're In a season right now where WWE is cool, everybody loves wwe. WD is great. There have been seasons where that's not the case.
[66:36]
Kevin Owens
Yeah.
[66:36]
Corey Graves
And there was Mike, there was Miz. I mean, he's one of those. He reminds me. There's a couple others. I mentioned this to Natty Neidhart not long ago. She was talking about her book. You know, when Natty eventually goes in the hall of Fame, I'll probably stand up for three minutes clapping for her. When Miz goes in the hall of Fame, I'll stand up for. That's going to be very special because he's so unique and he's so. I gotcha. It's. There's. There's only one speed with him. You know what I'm saying? It's a special thing because they also.
[67:04]
Kevin Owens
Natty, too. Same thing. They do it in a way that's not spectacular, it's not extravagant. They're just super solid all the time. They're super reliable all the time, consistent all the time. So much so that you don't even notice it.
[67:20]
Cody Rhodes
Yep.
[67:21]
Kevin Owens
You kind of take it for granted, but, man, like, I remember Mike putting on matches with Roman and Seth and Finn for the IC title every week on Raw for a period of time where you think, oh, Roman versus Seth, that's going to be a barn burner. Roman versus Finn, barn burner. Seth versus Finn, barn burner. Seth vs. Mike, Roman versus Miz. But why? Because he does it every time. You know why, dude? Because he doesn't go around telling everyone he's the best. And I'm not saying Roman and Seth do, which they kind of do. Finn definitely doesn't, but they can say it.
[67:58]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[67:59]
Kevin Owens
Mike doesn't do that, dude. Mike does what he's asked to do all the time, as good as he can.
[68:04]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[68:05]
Kevin Owens
You know what I mean? Natty's the same way, dude. Natty can go with anyone.
[68:09]
Corey Graves
You use the word consistency.
[68:11]
Kevin Owens
Yeah.
[68:12]
Corey Graves
To me, I tell a lot of my students, I'm like, man, it's not just about hitting it that one night. It's about, can you hit it the next night? Because my dad, I remember he used to tell people, he's like, what are you doing? Main event WrestleMania, he joke with me, what are you doing the next night? And I thought, like, in the dungeon and in main event WrestleMania, not at all. In terms of this business, follow up's more important.
[68:32]
Kevin Owens
Yeah, dude, Consistency is. Consistency is actually sometimes plays against you.
[68:38]
Corey Graves
Yeah, no, for sure.
[68:39]
Kevin Owens
Because if you're too consistent, then it becomes normal.
[68:43]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[68:43]
Kevin Owens
People expect you to kill it. So when you do, it's barely noticed.
[68:48]
Corey Graves
Special guy.
[68:48]
Kevin Owens
You know what I mean?
[68:49]
Corey Graves
For sure. Well, the first thing I want to do is. I meant to do it in kind of a more special way, but it's even better now because you're drinking and you don't drink that often. And that's the stun and briskly walk.
[69:03]
Kevin Owens
Stand, get a taxi home and don't drive.
[69:06]
Corey Graves
Stun an Uber. Yes.
[69:08]
Kevin Owens
Buckle up. Put your bl. Put your blinkers on. People signal you're going right, left. Just let the person behind you know.
[69:16]
Corey Graves
God damn, that's great advice.
[69:18]
Kevin Owens
My son's just got his license. He's brand new driver. He's better than about 90 of the Florida drivers out there.
[69:25]
Corey Graves
Not a great driver.
[69:26]
Kevin Owens
Waist up.
[69:28]
Corey Graves
Not a great driving state.
[69:29]
Kevin Owens
What were you gonna say?
[69:30]
Corey Graves
Yeah, well, no. Okay. The PSA on blinkers, we do like that.
[69:35]
Kevin Owens
I do believe that.
[69:36]
Corey Graves
And I believe you too.
[69:37]
Kevin Owens
I did a. I drove away from Sammy during the WrestleMania buildup. Drove away angrily. He told me he loved me. I didn't care. I slammed the door.
[69:46]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[69:46]
Kevin Owens
And before it drove off, quickly buckled up and as I pulled out, put my blinker on. People noticed it. They said, he's angry, but still buckled up and put his blinker on. Cause that's what you do. You don't let emotions get the best of you. You stay safe.
[70:01]
Corey Graves
I'll say this. They haven't used it for TV yet, and it's bumming me out, but I pitched that idea a long time ago of you. Because you were doing all your promos in your car.
[70:10]
Kevin Owens
Yes.
[70:10]
Corey Graves
I pitched this idea a while ago, and I'm waiting for them to use it. Of you pulling into the arena side ramp where we can clearly see you in one of your many beautiful vehicles. And you still do the promo on your phone.
[70:23]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[70:23]
Kevin Owens
And back away and leave.
[70:25]
Corey Graves
And then you back away safely. Clearly. And Lee, I still. Because I just love the idea of you sitting in a car and you clearly could get out and go to the ring, but no, you're gonna do it how you do it.
[70:34]
Kevin Owens
Also, in the WrestleMania build up, I wanted to do one of those in my car and have Randy just blow through me in a truck. Smash it. I was willing to let the Lamborghini go for it. They said no. Also, I broke my neck. So everything went wrong.
[70:46]
Corey Graves
You wanna talk about that?
[70:47]
Kevin Owens
Yeah, sure. But what were you gonna say first?
[70:49]
Corey Graves
Well, no, I actually. More than anything.
[70:51]
Kevin Owens
Okay, let's go.
[70:51]
Corey Graves
It's yours to tell the world. Where you're at.
[70:55]
Kevin Owens
Yeah. I don't know, man. It's been such a frustrating process. We're kind of trying to let. We're letting my spinal cord heal as much as we can on its own.
[71:02]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[71:03]
Kevin Owens
Before we go in for the surgery, because the extent. How extensive the surgery will be depends on how my spinal cord looks when we go in there. So we waited. You know, the trauma happened in January. Well, probably. It was building up.
[71:17]
Corey Graves
Right.
[71:18]
Kevin Owens
But January is what made it, you know, what really did it. Then we had this nice and easy ladder match where nothing crazy happened at all. And I kept going for a while. And then in the first week of April is when we had the mri, and they were like, oh, guess what? You can't even get hit. Don't even get hit, because you might die. So everything took a turn. And now it's been three months since then, since my last match. March 1st was my last match. So March, April, May. It's been four months almost.
[71:49]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[71:50]
Kevin Owens
We're waiting till mid July to do the surgery. Hopefully it's a normal neck fusion. It might not be. We don't know. So since then, I felt fine. My neck's been fine. I'm not in pain. I have no. Really, any symptoms of what you would expect somebody with a spinal cord injury have.
[72:11]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[72:12]
Kevin Owens
To have. But in the last week, we were texting about this two days ago, and you asked me for details, and A classic Cody move. I didn't answer you. I left you hanging.
[72:22]
Corey Graves
Thank you.
[72:23]
Kevin Owens
In the last week, for some reason, the symptoms all came in one shot. Every symptom you'd expect me to have. The pain in the neck, the stuff going down, the arms, the legs not really responding. It's all been happening, so it's been pretty brutal. I'm really. I can't wait for the surgery and then to move forward, whatever that looks like.
[72:43]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[72:43]
Kevin Owens
But it's been very frustrating because I felt great. So we had two incidents where basically, in the ring, my legs kind of fell asleep, and I was like, there's something wrong.
[72:51]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[72:52]
Kevin Owens
We thought it was one thing, which is why we didn't go right away for the neck, because it wasn't consistent with a neck injury.
[72:57]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[72:58]
Corey Graves
I remember you telling me about your legs.
[72:59]
Kevin Owens
Looked at everything else, and we figured out it's not that. Let's go. Let's take a look at the neck. And then it was that. But besides those two instances where my legs kind of fell asleep in the ring, I felt great.
[73:10]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[73:11]
Kevin Owens
So I'd have doctors Call me. And I've been very fortunate to have Randy tj, You know, and wwe, you know, Jeffrey Dugas put me in touch with all the best spine surgeons they have. They're great. I've spoken to all these different surgeons. They've given me their opinions and what they would do.
[73:27]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[73:27]
Kevin Owens
All in the hopes that I can get back in the ring and be safe. So I have all these opinions, but all of them were like, so you don't have any symptoms? I'm like, no, except for that time my legs fell asleep. I'm fine now. They. They came back. No pain, nothing. No discomfort. I'm great.
[73:44]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[73:44]
Kevin Owens
The last week, everything hit. So now it's like, a different story. I'm like, now I can't wait to get the surgery. Not just because I want to get back in the ring, just because I want to not be in pain.
[73:54]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[73:54]
Kevin Owens
So, yeah, this is helping. This is great, though. This might be the key.
[73:59]
Corey Graves
It can get you through the reh.
[74:00]
Kevin Owens
I feel great right now.
[74:01]
Corey Graves
Get you back in the ring.
[74:02]
Kevin Owens
Yeah.
[74:03]
Corey Graves
I'll mention this because when we wrestle at the Royal Rumble and we did the ladder match, we had talked about, you had said, like, my legs. It was always a kind of like, a unique symptom. My legs just feel like they're, like, dragging under me. And then I remember, I felt like I got a sense that it might have been more serious because of mutual friend Kathy Kelly.
[74:26]
Kevin Owens
Yeah.
[74:27]
Corey Graves
I remember after that match, I came back, and I was looking for you, and I wanted to make sure you, you know, you were okay. And I remember I wanted to update her, too. I just felt like I needed to update her. And the way she looked at me was like. My mom used to look at me the way she looked at me. She was like, yeah, we need to make sure he's okay. And the way she said it, I thought, got it. Yeah. Like, I'm with you. I'm with you. But it was. She values that relationship so much here.
[74:58]
Kevin Owens
Friendship. Well.
[74:59]
Corey Graves
So she's like, got it. Well, we're gonna find out. You know, like, yeah, she's a good.
[75:04]
Kevin Owens
Friend, but also, we went through something pretty traumatic together.
[75:06]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[75:06]
Kevin Owens
In that it sounds silly when we talk about the cart flipping and Saudi. Flipping and Saudi in the middle of the desert, in the middle of the night. It seems mundane, right? Oh, you flipped around in a golf cart. You know, it was wild, man.
[75:21]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[75:21]
Kevin Owens
And as we were flipping, what?
[75:23]
Corey Graves
I was mad.
[75:24]
Kevin Owens
First thing that went to my head is me and Jamie Noble, by the way, if you Want to take a tumble in the desert in a golf cart with people. Jamie Noble, Kathy Kelly, best people you can do it with. Entertainment value. And also, if this is the last moment we have, these are pretty good crew to go out with. But Jamie and I sit in the back. The guy, the driver tells us, okay, you know, put your seat belts on. If we start flipping, if we start rolling, it probably won't happen, but if we start rolling, just make sure you keep your arms in, okay? After he gave us the safety briefing, Kathy jumps in, doesn't get the safety briefing, but whatever, she buckles up, she's in the front. We start going, yeah, we're not gonna roll. Why would we roll? Going through the dunes, Great time, amazing time. And then as we go up a dune, I see the buggy in front of us almost go. And in my head I go, oh, we're gonna go. And as we start going in my head I go. Kathy doesn't know to keep her hands in, so I just reached around and grabbed her arms. And as we're rolling, I'm holding on to her. So I think that's why she was so concerned about the royal rumble, is because I didn't save her life. I didn't save her arms, but I tried to make sure she was safe. And then both of us experienced this incredible thing, which is we're upside down in the golf cart, we're sand pouring down our face, our ears, everything. And all we hear is Jimmy Noble going, my ribs, my ribs. Ah, my ribs. My. I'm okay.
[76:55]
Corey Graves
I love how you've described a near death experience with CK and Jamie Noble.
[77:00]
Kevin Owens
And then I'm the last one in the golf cart, by the way. They pull Jamie out, they pull her out. I'm literally just sands pouring on my face. I'm stuck in the seatbelt. And guess whose voice I hear?
[77:12]
Cody Rhodes
Who?
[77:13]
Kevin Owens
Take one guess.
[77:14]
Corey Graves
I would not even.
[77:16]
Kevin Owens
Is he okay? Hey, Kevin, are you in there? Is Kevin in there? Sami Zayn trying to tell people, where's Kevin? I'm like, I'm in here. Where do you think I am? He's like, hey, dude, you gotta get out. I'm like, I'm upside down. And he's like telling people how to move. You know what I mean? It's terrible. Oh, man.
[77:38]
Cody Rhodes
Oh, man.
[77:39]
Kevin Owens
But then the first face I see as I stand up, Sammy saying, dude, are you okay?
[77:44]
Corey Graves
I have so many fun Sammy stories.
[77:46]
Kevin Owens
Who doesn't?
[77:47]
Corey Graves
He's a special soul.
[77:49]
Kevin Owens
He is, yeah.
[77:51]
Corey Graves
During that period of time, we worked, we wrestled, we Were so fortunate that we got to bring back the winged eagle.
[77:56]
Kevin Owens
Yeah, dude.
[77:57]
Corey Graves
And we got to really bring it back.
[77:58]
Kevin Owens
Oh, my God. As soon as you brought it back, my first thought was, how do I attach myself to this when it has nothing to do with me?
[78:08]
Corey Graves
That's perfect, because I'm gonna try to steal it.
[78:10]
Kevin Owens
And that's what happened.
[78:11]
Corey Graves
You did.
[78:12]
Kevin Owens
So you got the best. We got the best of it, world. So you got to bring it back. Yeah, I got to steal it. Be on TV a bunch with it.
[78:18]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[78:18]
Kevin Owens
Then you got to take it back. But I was really hoping you'd get to keep it. We talked about this.
[78:23]
Corey Graves
Well, so I did.
[78:24]
Kevin Owens
No, but I meant on tv. I was hoping, moving forward, that would be it for you. That's the one you get to carry.
[78:30]
Corey Graves
I think there's some reasons maybe. And not just the company reasons. These are some reasons from aesthetic Point. I didn't get to keep it, but I did keep.
[78:38]
Kevin Owens
Yeah, you have the actual title.
[78:40]
Corey Graves
And. And I would love to give it to you.
[78:43]
Kevin Owens
No, we've talked about this.
[78:44]
Corey Graves
Well, too bad, buddy, because it's right there in that box.
[78:46]
Kevin Owens
I'm not taking it.
[78:47]
Corey Graves
It's right there.
[78:47]
Kevin Owens
I'm not taking it. I was just talking to Ben about me. I asked Ben to give it to me so I could frame it for you, so. And he never did.
[78:54]
Corey Graves
And now, obviously, I asked about framing it for you, and you know me rather than behind when it comes to anything, especially answering text. But, yeah, no, I wanted you to have it. That's ours.
[79:07]
Kevin Owens
I can't take it.
[79:08]
Corey Graves
Well, you are taking it, and I'm gonna sign it. Do we have a penske? But this is our one.
[79:12]
Kevin Owens
I'll take it because you're signing it.
[79:14]
Corey Graves
That was.
[79:14]
Kevin Owens
That's the only reason.
[79:15]
Corey Graves
That was always the plan.
[79:16]
Kevin Owens
All right.
[79:17]
Corey Graves
Is we'll sign it and then in case. Yeah, but that's our one.
[79:20]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[79:21]
Kevin Owens
Thanks, man.
[79:22]
Corey Graves
I had it on the bus.
[79:23]
Kevin Owens
I know you did.
[79:24]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[79:24]
Kevin Owens
Because I kept asking Ben, how do we get it?
[79:26]
Corey Graves
I had it on the bus.
[79:27]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[79:28]
Kevin Owens
Well, that means a lot, dude. And I'll definitely find a way to leave it on the bus another time when you won't notice.
[79:33]
Corey Graves
We're gonna double sign it. And because you were the guy who got to. There it is.
[79:38]
Kevin Owens
You know what the sweetest part of it was? Is doing the thing with Sean at Saturday night's main event.
[79:42]
Corey Graves
Oh, my gosh.
[79:42]
Kevin Owens
With it.
[79:43]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[79:43]
Kevin Owens
Dude, that was so cool. I was. Dude.
[79:46]
Corey Graves
Also, it wasn't forced. Hey, we're gonna bring it back for Saturday night's main event.
[79:49]
Kevin Owens
Yeah.
[79:50]
Corey Graves
Great. That's cool. Oh, you know what? That's. He took it. Let's keep it going.
[79:56]
Kevin Owens
Oh, well, to you, it wasn't forced because you were only part of one tiny bit of it.
[79:59]
Corey Graves
I feel you had a triple H.
[80:01]
Kevin Owens
Will probably tell you it was forced because I kept telling. Can I steal it? Please? Can I steal it? Let's do a ladder match. If I steal it, we could have two titles. Then we could do a ladder match.
[80:08]
Corey Graves
Can I steal it?
[80:09]
Kevin Owens
I know. I think this title for you is special. The same reason it is for me is because when I. Well, maybe not actually because you grew up watching your dad wrestling all kinds of different promotions with all kinds of different world titles. When I started watching wrestling, this was the ultimate title. It's a title of Brett and Sean and all those guys were trying to get, you know, until it changed over. Steve won it, and then they switched it. Yeah, but to me, that's the title that I dreamed of winning when I was younger. Actually, funny enough, the title I originally dreamed of winning and that I would win in my bedroom against my pillows and teddy bears all the time, was the original intercontinent. Well, not original, but the intercontinental title with the white strap, which I ended up being able to hold because someone brought it back. You remember who that person was?
[80:56]
Corey Graves
I did.
[80:57]
Kevin Owens
It was you, of course. So of course you'd bring that one back.
[81:00]
Corey Graves
Well, this one's yours, but, yeah, that's for you.
[81:02]
Kevin Owens
Thank you.
[81:03]
Corey Graves
There you go. I kept the inscription pretty simple.
[81:06]
Kevin Owens
I love you, too, buddy. That's amazing. It'll be available on ebay very soon.
[81:10]
Corey Graves
What's so funny is that that's the. You know, the winged eagle, and which.
[81:16]
Kevin Owens
By the way, every eagle has wings. Well, this one's an eagle title.
[81:20]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[81:20]
Corey Graves
This one's a winged eagle. You. You grew up. It's. I liked it for a different reason than you liked it, but I know one of the big connections you have to it is Bret Hart, who is your friend. So how's that like growing up loving someone? The hitman. Well, the excellence of execution. And now this person is in your life and your friend and luminary figure that you have.
[81:43]
Kevin Owens
Well, I don't want to overstate. One thing that's very important for me is not overstating relationships.
[81:49]
Corey Graves
Well, you shouldn't on this show because we like to exaggerate.
[81:51]
Kevin Owens
We're friendly. I'll text Brett. He'll text me back. We have a great relationship. Yeah, I can't say he's my friend. I wish I could. Workplace proximity, more than that. But if. Because that's somebody I admire greatly. And I know if I ever needed advice, I could go to him and he would gladly give it to me. If he ever said, we're friends, then I'd be like, brad Hart's my friend.
[82:10]
Corey Graves
Friend.
[82:10]
Kevin Owens
But I. I don't feel comfortable saying he's my friend until he says it.
[82:13]
Corey Graves
Okay.
[82:14]
Kevin Owens
See what I mean?
[82:15]
Corey Graves
Out of respect. Totally.
[82:16]
Kevin Owens
But growing up, ironically enough, I was not a Bret Hart fan at all.
[82:21]
Corey Graves
Oh, no.
[82:22]
Kevin Owens
But there's a great reason I was an Owen Hart fan.
[82:26]
Corey Graves
Oh, okay. I thought you were gonna go Sean.
[82:28]
Kevin Owens
No. Well, I was a Sean guy, but you were.
[82:29]
Corey Graves
No.
[82:30]
Kevin Owens
It all started at WrestleMania 11. First tape my dad rented, which made me want to be a wrestler. And at the end of that tape, I saw Sean, or right before the end, which was, by the way, lt. Bam.
[82:39]
Corey Graves
Bam.
[82:39]
Kevin Owens
They should have been main event, but whatever. Lawrence Taylor could wrestle. Who gives a shit?
[82:42]
Corey Graves
I stand.
[82:43]
Kevin Owens
Bam. Bam. Got his main event, though, which he deserves.
[82:45]
Corey Graves
I do stand apart. I like lt. Bam.
[82:47]
Cody Rhodes
Bam.
[82:48]
Kevin Owens
The match was fine. Bam. Bam. Deserved to be the main event. But to me, what blew my mind, what changed my life, was Shawn Michaels.
[82:53]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[82:55]
Kevin Owens
Smallest guy on the show. Best guy on the show at the time. I was tiny, scrawny kid. Like, if he can do it, I can do it, too. But then. And then I start backtracking, going, renting tapes from the year before. So then I watched Royal Rumble from that year, which has Bret Hart versus Diesel for the WWE Championship. And Brett, at one point, tries to tie up Diesel's legs with the camera wires. I was upset. He's cheating.
[83:25]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[83:26]
Kevin Owens
How can this guy cheat?
[83:27]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[83:28]
Kevin Owens
Then Owen jumps in and attacks his older brother. I have an older brother.
[83:34]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[83:35]
Kevin Owens
10 years older. Used to beat the shit out of me. Which is fine. I love them. We let bygones be bygones. But at the time, I don't like my older brother.
[83:45]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[83:45]
Kevin Owens
Beats the shit out of me. Bret Hart's the older brother. Owen's trying to keep him from cheating. Owen Hart's my guy. So you see what I mean? Automatically, Shawn Michaels fan, Owen Hart fan. Can't really be a Bret Hart guy.
[83:59]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[84:00]
Kevin Owens
But I knew he was a great wrestler. I knew he was a talented wrestler. And then years later, obviously, unless Bret Hart's a great guy, I met him. So now I'd like to say he's my friend, but growing up Canadian, you'd think as I huge Bret Carr guy.
[84:14]
Corey Graves
Not necessarily so that's crazy to me. I thought you would be. Because I was a Sean guy.
[84:18]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[84:19]
Kevin Owens
Yeah. I was a Sean guy. I was a stone cold guy. That's another thing. Stone Cold fan.
[84:23]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[84:24]
Kevin Owens
More than anything, I was a ringmaster fan. You know how few people can say that.
[84:30]
Corey Graves
I actually can join you in that because I knew of some Steve right before the.
[84:34]
Cody Rhodes
I didn't.
[84:34]
Kevin Owens
Cuz I hated wcw.
[84:36]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[84:37]
Kevin Owens
I could not stand wcw. Wouldn't watch it. Refused to acknowledge it. Yeah. Yeah. It's so funny how life works out, eh?
[84:44]
Corey Graves
It is.
[84:45]
Kevin Owens
Yeah. And now I have this because you brought it back.
[84:47]
Corey Graves
Yeah. The Wayne Eagle.
[84:48]
Kevin Owens
And you brought back the Intercontinental title, which I also got to hold.
[84:53]
Corey Graves
This segment is brought to you by Fanatics. What is your Mount Rushmore of sports jerseys, including WWE gear that means the most to you? So here's the thing we often will ask is give us your Mount Rushmore of fanatics. Like your Fanatics Mount Rushmore. And that can be jerseys, you know, in terms of hockey, baseball, football, whatever it may be. Or it can be wrestling gear. Your Mount Rushmore of. We've had people say Austin316, that classic shirt, the NWO classic shirt, things like that. Your Mount Rushmore.
[85:28]
Kevin Owens
If we're going with just WWE wrestlers or wrestlers in general, but WWE wrestlers who I'd like a autographed jersey of. You know what I mean?
[85:36]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[85:37]
Kevin Owens
I go with Stone Cold Shawn Michaels.
[85:40]
Corey Graves
There he is.
[85:40]
Kevin Owens
I'm gonna go with four. Same thing.
[85:42]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[85:43]
Kevin Owens
Stone Cold Shawn Michaels, Randy Orton and Becky Lynch.
[85:51]
Corey Graves
Oh, that's a great crew.
[85:52]
Kevin Owens
And grit is four.
[85:54]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[85:55]
Corey Graves
I was gonna say, is there any version of your fanatics Mount Rushmore in terms of jerseys, like a hockey jersey that you'd put on your Mount Rushmore, your big four.
[86:05]
Kevin Owens
So I'm not a big sports guy.
[86:07]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[86:07]
Kevin Owens
I did follow hockey when I was a kid. Then wrestling happened. I couldn't care less about any other sports. I got back into hockey recently. Got season tickets to the Habs. Got season tickets to the Lightning. Yeah, I've been watching.
[86:19]
Corey Graves
I love that you're a Tampa guy now.
[86:23]
Kevin Owens
So as far as hockey goes, because it's really the only sport I know enough about. When I was a kid, I loved Mario Lemieux and Patrick Roy.
[86:30]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[86:30]
Kevin Owens
So it'd be one of those two. Can't really pick which one.
[86:33]
Corey Graves
That's great. But yeah, well, you get, let's say those two.
[86:35]
Kevin Owens
Yeah, there you go.
[86:37]
Corey Graves
For our viewers and listeners, whoever is on your Mount Rushmore, you can get all your favorite jerseys and fan clothing from fanatics. Go to fanatics.com or download the app today. I mean, we can keep all this in, but basically, here's the story.
[86:53]
Kevin Owens
We have to keep it.
[86:54]
Corey Graves
During Stardust, you know, like, I needed a little bit of a mental edge on how bad I was being treated, even though maybe it wasn't that bad. But I kicked Kevin with a disaster kick, and he kicked out before I even caught. Like, as I covered his chest, he kicked out right away. And that was during the NXT Sami Zayn era. If you're not here to earn a spot, you're here to take a spot. And I. So I hated all of them with a passion. But the truth of the story is it wasn't Sammy, it wasn't Kevin, it was Jon Moxley who did it. And Jon Moxley is awesome. So I'm not. No, that's the story.
[87:28]
Kevin Owens
Also, remember we talked about Big show earlier?
[87:30]
Cody Rhodes
Yeah.
[87:30]
Kevin Owens
Funny enough, wasn't Big show kind of the reason why you. He was. Wasn't wrestling him in his hometown as Stardust? The kind of the straw that broke the Catwoman.
[87:39]
Corey Graves
It's one of the straws that broke the. Yeah, there's a couple of them. There's a moment where I remember Charlotte asked me, can I meet one of her? Like, she had brought a little kid to the show. Can I meet this kid? I said, yeah. And she goes, hey, he's Stardust. And I could see the kid was like, who is this? And I remember thinking, like, oh, no. Not only does he really not know Stardust, he doesn't know what I was doing prior. Gotta go. That was one of. There was a bazillion reasons. Road Dog. Road Dog and I have a great relationship, so to this day, it's one of my favorite stories. But when I went to him asking, what's the finish on me and Zack Ryder for the 11th time on Main Event? And he goes, hey, man, does it really matter? I remember thinking, yep, got it. And I remember I told Cardona after I said, you up, Rough Rider? And walked out the door and I didn't come back. I'm here with Kevin Owens, my guest, of course. I like to think of myself and Wheatley Bodk as the American Dream Team. I always ask people, what is your American Dream Team?
[88:40]
Kevin Owens
What are we doing?
[88:41]
Corey Graves
So here's. I'll go ahead and give it to you. Some people say, this is my team of people. I'm preparing for the zombie apocalypse with other people. From a wrestling perspective, I say, hey, Who. Who's your War Games team? So that you don't have. We've had everything. We've had like 100 people. We've had four. Who's your team?
[89:00]
Kevin Owens
I need. I need more boundaries. Give me at least a number more qualifiers.
[89:04]
Corey Graves
I'm out of four people to go along with you. You're going into it. Who's he going to be?
[89:09]
Kevin Owens
Man, it's very hard to pick. Just even with this boundary, it's almost impossible to pick four. I know. That's why I'm just going to go with WWE Wrestlers who I pick for a Survivor Series.
[89:21]
Corey Graves
And I'll go ahead and qualify for you. Kevin's answer might change over time. Well, but here are four guys you'd go into it with today.
[89:29]
Kevin Owens
The only reason it wouldn't change is because now I'm also going to use. Use that as a cop out because it's a Survivor Series team and we don't do mixed mat. Mixed gender matches. That automatically eliminates Becky.
[89:40]
Corey Graves
And no ladies.
[89:41]
Kevin Owens
So they can't be in it. But you guys will totally be in it.
[89:43]
Corey Graves
No ladies.
[89:44]
Kevin Owens
So Survivor Series. Current WWE talent. You, Randy, Sammy, Finn.
[89:51]
Corey Graves
Easy, dude. We smoke the field.
[89:53]
Kevin Owens
That's right. And ringside. As our manager making his debut, Michael Kirschenbaum. Wow.
[90:00]
Corey Graves
We spoke the field.
[90:02]
Kevin Owens
Wait, there's. Doesn't matter.
[90:03]
Corey Graves
Randy. All 800 pounds.
[90:05]
Kevin Owens
Doesn't matter. Who else is there. It does not matter who else is there.
[90:08]
Corey Graves
Oh, I love that.
[90:09]
Kevin Owens
That's right.
[90:09]
Corey Graves
Okay, this is. I don't know if you've watched the show.
[90:12]
Kevin Owens
Is this the end? Is this going to be at the end of our episode?
[90:15]
Corey Graves
It is.
[90:15]
Kevin Owens
Because I'm about to crack this Cody Rhodes bottle open.
[90:18]
Corey Graves
Dude, go.
[90:19]
Kevin Owens
I don't know if I was allowed to, but it's happening.
[90:21]
Corey Graves
I feel like. Oh, man. I feel like you're allowed to do anything here on this pod.
[90:29]
Kevin Owens
I know. I have a flight. Exactly. I'm not flying the plane. Talent relations and they're driving me there.
[90:32]
Corey Graves
It's a problem here. Oh, here is a. Sorry. It's a jingle that.
[90:43]
Cody Rhodes
We got it.
[90:48]
Kevin Owens
The mixer.
[90:49]
Corey Graves
You got it. All right. So here.
[90:50]
Kevin Owens
Cody will pay for whatever broke.
[90:52]
Corey Graves
I don't think it broke. Here's a jingle brought to you by our friends at Wheatley American Vodka. Want you to watch it and I'll ask. I'll ask you to replace that.
[91:02]
Kevin Owens
Should not be a bartender.
[91:03]
Corey Graves
Replace a word at the end. Wheatley so good I drink it. This song right here is for the red, white and blue. You got good taste and you drink like it too. Wheatley so good.
[91:14]
Kevin Owens
I drink.
[91:14]
Corey Graves
Drinking deeply.
[91:16]
Kevin Owens
Wheatley American vodka.
[91:17]
Cody Rhodes
All right.
[91:18]
Corey Graves
So Wheatley vodka.
[91:19]
Kevin Owens
Very catchy.
[91:20]
Corey Graves
It is, right? These are good folks here, by the way.
[91:22]
Kevin Owens
Yeah.
[91:22]
Corey Graves
Wheatley so good. I drink it neatly.
[91:24]
Kevin Owens
Uhhuh.
[91:25]
Corey Graves
So if you could replace the word neatly, what do you replace it with? Wheatley so good. I drink it naked. Well, you that for sure. Naked.
[91:36]
Kevin Owens
I don't drink anything naked. I'm never naked. Why would I do that to people? But I drink.
[91:41]
Corey Graves
You're actually not the first person to say naked.
[91:44]
Kevin Owens
Don't tell me Priest said it.
[91:45]
Corey Graves
Nope. My wife said.
[91:47]
Kevin Owens
Okay, that's fine. I'll agree if I can. I don't mind Brandy. If Priest had said it, we'd change my answer.
[91:52]
Corey Graves
What's your best friend?
[91:54]
Kevin Owens
I know that we can't. We're so connected. We would have said the same thing, man.
[92:00]
Corey Graves
Thanks.
[92:00]
Kevin Owens
Thank you.
[92:01]
Corey Graves
My gosh. Thank you.
[92:02]
Kevin Owens
Thank you. This is incredible.
[92:04]
Corey Graves
Thank you. Please keep it. I meant to frame it for you. It's set under the coats on my bus. Ladies and gentlemen, our guest and my friend, Kevin Owens. Thank you, buddy. Thank you so much.
[92:17]
Kevin Owens
That was so much fun. I'm definitely gonna miss my flight.