Kevin Owens

Summary

Podcast Summary: "What Do You Wanna Talk About? with Cody Rhodes" Featuring Kevin Owens

Episode Details

• Title: What Do You Wanna Talk About? with Cody Rhodes
• Guest: Kevin Owens
• Release Date: June 25, 2025

Introduction and Setting The episode diverges from the usual setting aboard Cody Rhodes' bus, transporting listeners to the historic Buffalo Trace Distillery in Frankfort, Kentucky. Hosted by Cody Rhodes ("B") and featuring WWE Superstar Kevin Owens ("A"), the ambiance is reminiscent of a hidden speakeasy, setting a relaxed tone for the ensuing conversation.

Wrestling Career and Key Moments

Feud with Roman Reigns and Damian Priest
Kevin Owens delves into his tumultuous feud with Roman Reigns during the pandemic era of 2021. He recounts how WWE intended to pair him with Damian Priest as an ally against Reigns' "Bloodline," a decision Owens vehemently opposed.

"No one would believe that we're best friends. We could not be more opposite." (03:16)

This storyline, Owens explains, was abruptly changed, leading to a favorite Royal Rumble match that fans cherished. Despite the creative differences, Owens acknowledges that Priest's main roster debut was a significant career move for the younger talent.

Big Show Incident and Friendship
A pivotal moment in the episode centers around Owens' relationship with Big Show. Owens shares a memorable story from an all-talent event at the Big Texan Steakhouse, where a spilled drink leads to an unexpected incident involving Big Show breaking his chair—all sparked by Owens successfully making him laugh.

"I kicked Kevin with a disaster kick, and he kicked out before I even cut." (16:44)
"He broke his chair right then and there. And Sean told me right then and there, you're in forever." (25:44)

This incident not only cemented their friendship but also marked Owens' entry into what he refers to as Big Show's "Golden Circle."

Business and Independent Scene Insights

Navigating the Independent Circuit
Owens reflects on the challenges wrestlers face on the independent scene, particularly regarding fair compensation and branding. He emphasizes the importance of charging reasonable prices to ensure promoters are fairly compensated, distinguishing himself from some ex-WWE talents who may overprice their appearances.

"Don't rob the bank. Price yourself fairly so that you can keep going." (12:37)

His collaboration with Cody Rhodes in creating a curated list of indie shows showcases their strategic approach to building a sustainable wrestling career outside the WWE umbrella.

Merchandising and Social Media Strategy
Drawing inspiration from Colt Cabana, Owens discusses the necessity of leveraging social media and merchandising to build a personal brand. He credits Colt for encouraging him to embrace platforms like Twitter and to innovate with on-demand merchandise, which he implemented successfully to support his wrestling endeavors.

"Get on Twitter, tweet every day. You gotta like, this is how you're gonna grow your following." (29:40)

Personal Stories and Relationships

Supportive Relationships
The camaraderie between Owens and Rhodes extends beyond the ring, touching on personal support systems. Owens shares heartfelt moments, including traveling to Japan with Rhodes and observing how Rhodes interacts with his son, Owen.

"I wish I could interact with him the way you did... But then I kind of realized later on, like, it's not my role." (52:32)

Dusty Rhodes' Influence
A significant portion of the conversation honors the late Dusty Rhodes, highlighting his mentorship and the profound impact he had on Owens' career. Owens recounts a transformative encounter with Dusty on a flight, where Dusty's belief in Owens' potential overcame initial doubts.

"He told me, no way you can do it. No way you can make that happen. You have three weeks. Can't do it." (43:46)
"We spent an hour talking about life, about family, about everything. Not one talk about wrestling." (44:00)

This mentorship reinforced Owens' commitment to balancing his wrestling career with his responsibilities as a father.

Challenges and Personal Life

Injury and Recovery
Towards the episode's conclusion, Owens opens up about a recent severe neck injury sustained during a match. He details the initial nonchalant symptoms that escalated, leading to a spinal cord injury requiring imminent surgery.

"The symptoms all came in one shot. Every symptom you’d expect me to have..." (71:16)
"I can't wait for the surgery and then to move forward, whatever that looks like." (72:30)

Owens candidly discusses the physical and emotional toll of his injury, expressing optimism for recovery while acknowledging the uncertainty surrounding the extent of his surgery.

Future Plans and Closing

Wrestling Aspirations and Partnerships
Despite the setback, Owens remains hopeful about returning to the ring. He emphasizes the importance of support from friends and colleagues, including Randy Orton and Sammy Guevara, who are integral to his support system. The conversation also touches on potential future collaborations and the enduring friendships forged through shared experiences in the wrestling world.

Cody and Kevin's Collaborative Energy
The episode wraps up with light-hearted banter about future wrestling scenarios, including Survivor Series team-ups and humorous interactions fueled by their camaraderie. Owens and Rhodes celebrate their friendship and mutual respect, underscoring the episode's overarching theme of brotherhood both inside and outside the squared circle.

Notable Quotes

• "I have nothing against Damian Priest, but no one would believe that we're best friends." (03:16)
• "Big Show took one look at me laughing and broke his chair. That's when I knew I was in forever." (25:44)
• "Don't rob the bank. Price yourself fairly so that you can keep going." (12:37)
• "Consistency is key, but sometimes it becomes the norm and barely noticed." (69:08)
• "My family is the real motivation behind all this." (47:53)

Conclusion This episode of "What Do You Wanna Talk About?" offers an intimate glimpse into Kevin Owens' wrestling journey, his relationships within the industry, and the personal challenges he faces. Through engaging storytelling and heartfelt reflections, Owens and Rhodes provide listeners with a comprehensive understanding of the man behind the WWE superstar persona.

Transcript

[A]

With a $5 meal deal with new McValue. You pick a McDouble or a McChicken, then get a small fry, a small drink and a four piece McNuggets. That's a lot of McDonald's for not a lot of money. Prices of Participation may vary. McDouble meal, $6 in some markets for a limited time only.

[B]

Hello. Welcome to what do youo Want to Talk About? A WWE and Fanatics original production brought to you by by our friends at Wheatley American Vodka. And today we're not. We're not on my home away from home. We're not on the bus. We're actually in Frankfort, Kentucky at the Buffalo Trace Distillery. They do tours here. We are in a. We are sequestered in a hidden room, a bit of a speakeasy. And get in on that.

[A]

You see this?

[B]

Get in on that.

[A]

This is a real thing.

[B]

That is a real thing, folks.

[A]

The only way I'll ever be on a bottle is if I put my face behind the clear bottle. But look at that, there's two of them.

[B]

See, we did get multiple photos.

[A]

Pretty crazy.

[B]

And my guest who's introduced himself. All right, slightly oddly, this guest, I didn't think of an intro for because this is one of my friends in the wrestling business. And my father used to say he probably had five friends in the wrestling business. And when he would list them out, it seemed more like 3. DDP. Always excited that he remained one of those digits, but one of my very few friends in the entire business. Former everything champion, WrestleMania Saturday night main eventer, all the things you could possibly do. And someone who changed the course except Sunday night. And somebody who changed the course of professional wrestling in general by the things he did in terms of changed my course at least helping me out, sending me out into the unknown and sending me out with the proper information, which I needed at the time, following my career, keeping up with me. One of my. Again, I might be like my dad. Five friends, maybe it's less, but he is certainly one of them. An exceptional human being. A lover of zoos. This guy loves the zoos, folks. And a dinosaur man as well. And please welcome to what do you want to talk about the one and only Kevin Owens. Yes. Yeah.

[A]

Boom.

[B]

They usually don't clap. That's the first time we ever clap.

[A]

I was gonna say it's really awkward if only one person in the room full of what? There's seven people in here.

[B]

I dialed up an introduction for Priest and it was. It was.

[A]

So if he. So since he got it. He got an introduction. Meaning you're not friends with him? Because what you just said is. I, I, I didn't think of an introduction for your friend. That's okay. I, I'm not friends with him. They tried to make me friends with him.

[B]

So a lot of people are. Have you heard me use the term workplace proximity associates? Sure.

[A]

Well, I've never heard you say that. I've heard you say several things. The old thing that would come out of your mouth for sure.

[B]

Wpas?

[A]

Yeah. They tried to make me be friends with Damian Priest on television. How'd it go then? I refused.

[B]

Can you tell me why?

[A]

Yeah, sure.

[B]

As our first question.

[A]

Well, so in 2021, it was the Pandemic era. I was embroiled in a feud with Roman Reigns.

[B]

Ah, the Big Dog.

[A]

It was the beginning of a four year nightmare that just would not stop for me. But when it started, you know, we were wrestling in front of empty buildings. Well, we had the weird screens there.

[B]

Yeah. Thunderdome.

[A]

Yeah, you missed that. You missed that time. And right at the, right when we were having the blow off match was going to be the Last man standing match, the Royal Rumble, which turned out to be everyone's favorite match that we had.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

About three weeks before. I'm thinking, okay, we're firing on all cylinders. We're going to the Royal Rumble. It's a big match, it's gonna be a lot of fun. And then I'm at television and they come tell me, well, things are kind of changing now. You're gonna be introducing your new best friend to help you take on the bloodline. Because it's the numbers game. Like, who's this guy? They go, you know, Damian Priest from nxt. I go, the guy who's arrows? Yes. Well, I have nothing against them, but no one would believe that we're best friends. We could not be more opposite. And why it's so random. Turns out somebody threw this idea out there and it stuck for about five minutes until I said, no. Ah, I don't want to be friends with him. Yeah, on tv, maybe in real life. But let's start somewhere.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And yeah, he got killed, but he's going to take my match. It was going to be him versus Roman Reigns of the Royal Rumble.

[B]

Oh, the plot thickens.

[A]

I was incensed.

[B]

I said, no, you, you as a.

[A]

But hey, for what it's worth, I didn't derail his career. He debuted on the main roster like two weeks later.

[B]

Well, you, you bring, you bring something up that I feel like we've never talked about on the podcast at all is sometimes there are people in this space in pro wrestling who say yes to everything. Yeah. And they, they kind of make that their thing is, you got it, I'll go do this, I'll go do that, I'll go do that. And then there's others who are more discerning and more disciplined with their choices in terms of how they present it. As a wrestler, if you want to use the term artist, whatever it may be, I feel like I have always, I don't think secretly I've always admired to a degree those who can go, hey, that's not for me. It might be a good idea, but that's not for me because there's that school of thought as well that's hey, I'm gonna make anything work. But sometimes making anything work is not as good as this just doesn't work in general. Let's find something else. And I feel like that's an area where I admire your ability to say, hey, I know myself, I know my brand, I know what people will buy. And they wouldn't buy that.

[A]

Yeah. I think it's. For me it just comes down to if I think the audience would be insulted by it. Which I didn't think the audience would be insulted by the concept of me and him being friends. But up to that point, you know, and at that time NXT had already been around. People are aware of NXT enough to know that he's been in nxt. I used to be in nxt. We never had any sort of interaction. Never in our lives were we like. It would just be so random. It was one thing if they would have told me you're gonna bring him in as your backup. Just a guy you saw in NXT that impressed you. But they know he has to be your best friend. I'm like, also, I spent years television wise telling us that screwing every friend I had and not in a fun way, backstabbing them. So why would I just introduce this random best friend that I've never. So anyway it was more of a. I just didn't, I just didn't like it. I think it was shit.

[B]

You can't see yourself though in kind of that Shawn Michaels. I'm just picturing now as you're talking cause I'm having fun with this quite.

[A]

That's the thing.

[B]

I'm picturing you in Shawn Michaels outfit.

[A]

Picture when Damien Priest is. And I love him. Great guy.

[B]

Yeah, he's so sweet.

[A]

But what he is on the way he can, just him and me. It just doesn't work. No.

[B]

Simple question for you. What are you drinking there? What is that? That's a specialty drink made just you.

[A]

Yeah. They called it Stun and Run.

[B]

Stun and Run.

[A]

Which is funny.

[B]

Damn.

[A]

I don't run much.

[B]

No.

[A]

But I'll take this.

[B]

Yeah. This guy likes to stay in the fight.

[A]

Stun and walk briskly. Like, briskly part is getting worse because my neck, My knees are. So. It's stun and stunning around a lot.

[B]

Well, cheers to you.

[A]

All right.

[B]

Cheers to you. My friend has a Stun and Run. I have the American 1495. That is the price. It's a pretty good price.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, it's a proper.

[A]

Keeps it nice and cold.

[B]

That's the thing. It's a proper glass.

[A]

I thought your face was on the other side. So if that had been the case, $14.95 would be a bargain. Now, it's a fair price because your face is not on it. So, all due respect to Wheatley American.

[B]

Vodka, I get the sense, Kevin, that some of this iconography and some of this stuff you don't love.

[A]

I actually do love it.

[B]

Oh, thanks.

[A]

I really do love it. I do. But I can't help but think, you know, often I present it as a. It's very funny because it is funny, but also for me. I remember what. I remember when you told me, I'm leaving. I quit.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And now. You know what I mean? And the diff. I've told you this before. The difference is staggering. And it's more. I'm still in disbelief. Not that you did it because I knew you could, but that it even. It surpassed even what I'm sure, what even you would have expected.

[B]

Oh, I'm in uncharted territory for sure.

[A]

That's it. But, yeah, but I do love it. I mean, how can. This is incredible.

[B]

Do you know when you gave me your complete, full support and you actually said something similar to what you just said? I think basically you told me everything was possible for me after you saw a certain moment. Do you remember what that was?

[A]

The Ring of Honor Final Battle.

[B]

Yes. And you, Jay Lethal. Yes. You texted me after Final Battle and just. It was actually you who texted me after Final Battle and then Triple H who texted me after I wrestled. Wrestled Christopher Daniels. And I remember thinking, like, ah, they're watching. They're watching. Good. And I'm also having a good time. I'm having fun. That's probably the first thing that I think it's Important. And I always. Not only are these fun, and I hope people are entertained by these conversations, but it's so important that people know. And we've talked about it on tv, we've touched it, but we've not been able to go in long form. When I left, I didn't really ask anyone other than you, hey, how do. How would you map this out? What would you do? How would you play this? I remember talking to you about the list, which now is. It's kind of a symbol of where we mobilized a fan base to say, hey, I'm doing something. It's not. Just stay tuned to the next chapter. I'm not done yet. Can't wait till you see what I do next. No, there was a promise.

[A]

Yeah. It actually. It was genius to do that because then it made even some things that might have seemed mundane or not really a big deal to some people. For example, some of the names you had on the list. Great wrestlers, but not necessarily somebody that people would have loved to see you wrestle.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Like, I think I believe Mike Bennett was on the list.

[B]

And Mike Bennett is on the list.

[A]

I really like Mike the Miracle. Cody Rhodes was Mike Bennett. To me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's not a match that people would have died to see.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Not just because Mike is a great wrestler, but I don't think it's somebody that people would. Thought him and Cody Rhodes could have a killer match. But because you put it on the list and then the list became this important thing, that match became something people wanted to see. And then you guys did it in tna.

[B]

I think we did it in tna and then we did it at a few Northeast Wrestling.

[A]

And it just. It was a bigger deal just because it had a bit of hype. Just from that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know what I mean?

[B]

You helped curate the list. You helped. You helped me. And it wasn't always, hey, put this person on. It was. I don't think this one.

[A]

I think I remember telling you, shouldn't put that one on there, but I don't remember.

[B]

I think the one that you were more like. I don't know, man. Was Moose. I think the one you were more. And a lot of those were. Remember, I was trying to be like Batman in this moment where I have a plan and there's a plan behind the plan. So some of these were booked already.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

So, like Kurt Angle, for example. Booked already. It's got to be on the list. Few of these, and then a lot of them. The streamers thing, for example. I genuinely wanted that to See, you know, on these certain independent shows, then the biggest part of it was I would ask you about the people out there and not just wrestlers. Hey, I talked to Greg at Ring of Honor, for example, and Joe, God bless him.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What. What do you think about this? And I remember asking you too. The big question I asked you about was probably pricing. And it was a really good conversation because you said, I agreed with your sentiment on don't rob the bank. Price yourself fairly so that you can keep going. Price yourself fairly. That. My big thing was I would do the in the ring photos after the show. I wanted to make sure the promoter got his money back because I would be on the show with other ex WWE guys or WWE legends, whatever. They'd robbed the bank. I knew that guy didn't get his money off you.

[A]

Yeah. And I was tricky for that part because I, when I was on the Indies, I had never had the WWE exposure at all.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I didn't have the Rhodes name, which means a lot. Right. So I think the highest amount of money I ever charged on anyone on the Indies was 600 bucks.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you know, I was getting booked enough selling a ton of shirts. I was doing fine. But you were a different story. So when we were talking about that, I just remember specifically hearing about ex WWE guys that overestimated their appeal.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Just because they were coming off of wwe. And I think, you know, a good example. Charged insane amounts of money.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which he might have gotten a couple times at first.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And now I think on shows with me, I think it's safe to say he has not on shows with me very much. I don't know, you know, if that's. It might be by design. Maybe he decided not to.

[B]

Not everyone. Not everyone. It's. It's so many people. So many.

[A]

This podcast is gonna be like 20 minutes long.

[B]

Because one thing, like for example, when you said we can bleep it out and just let people guess. Yes, that's a good one. That way there's no issue because I love that because that was a great example of hey, I appreciate it. Getting your money. We gotta eat.

[A]

Are they gonna put a square over my mouth?

[B]

Read it so that people can guess.

[A]

Instead of a square. Can you put Cody's face over my mo. Yes.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Oh, no, just this tattoo. Yeah, just the tattoo. Yeah. So. But.

[B]

Cody tattoo, it was tricky. I was all over the board and what I charged. If it was like a mom and pop, that probably was a one time visit. Maybe it was more full rate and Then I'd do everything I could to make sure they got their money. If it was something I wanted to do. I don't know what I took for PWG for example, but I remember, I believe. Hope this doesn't sound crazy. I believe I, I took $750 and it was more a matter of when I said that they weren't used to. Nobody was making to be part of the battle of Los Angeles. Nobody was making big money. You want to be here. And I understood that sentiment but I also wanted to make sure like I hope they know though, just there is a like a little bit of a firewall so that it's not just a I'll do whatever and do anything.

[A]

I mean so pwg, we may have talked about it actually and I definitely told you charge the least to them that you're willing to. Yeah, cuz me, I mean me and, and Sammy were char. We wrestle for literally whatever Danny would give us.

[B]

Yeah, for Danny's super dragon, right?

[A]

Correct.

[B]

Yeah. Cuz I remember he, he when I said 750 we agreed but I remember there was a pause to the like well yeah, can you do this 100%. I can do this and I'll be back, you know. Yeah.

[A]

But yeah, I mean you approached it in the best way you could have. You approached it with no ego and no expectation of. Even though so like again, I hate to bring up the of the world. Right. Yeah, they did stuff in wwe. They were popular guys at a certain level. They won some titles, everything but nothing. Their run up until when they ended up getting released and having to go on the independent scene was never compared to the run you had had up to that point. Even towards the end if you want to Stardust as a low point, which.

[B]

I know you don't.

[A]

I honestly don't. I loved Stardust. I legit did. Even if you consider like just look at everything. Before Stardust you were intercontinental champ. You're in the legacy with Randy. You were working Triple H and Sean and main events and pay per views.

[B]

You were there.

[A]

Yes. You had a great run and you still approached it with no ego. Not expecting that run to do anything for you on independent scene besides having promoters attention. You didn't expect them to give you three grand a match just because you won the intercontinental title.

[B]

No. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

By you know, disaster kicking big show off the apron.

[B]

Speaking of that foot going through a table. We have to talk about that amazing finish.

[A]

Let's do it.

[B]

No, but go ahead. I liked what you were going the.

[A]

Table his foot through the table.

[B]

And, and, and the way he's. Big show told the producer it's going to work.

[A]

It did work.

[B]

And that producer was dying to tell us we were wrong. And then when his foot went through that table, what did Arn say? His face, I remember him.

[A]

Was it Arn?

[B]

It wasn't. Oh, but you could probably guess who else. But I remember him saying, I was wrong. That was great.

[A]

And guess the producer. What year is that?

[B]

Gosh. Extreme Rules was a pay per view, right?

[A]

Doesn't work here anymore.

[B]

Tables. No, it works here.

[A]

He does.

[B]

Yeah, he's.

[A]

Hell yeah, he works. Jamie.

[B]

Nope. I would have done a Jamie impression. That's great.

[A]

Who's left?

[B]

It's not Arn. Remember Big Show's Golden Circle? Golden Circle producer man.

[A]

I really didn't work with him that much. I don't think I know who his golden circle was.

[B]

Well, when I say golden circle, I mean when I first got in, Arn used to refer to the golden circle. It was the talent that really could do whatever they wanted because they did well for the company. Drew for the company, and we took care of that talent. Of course, you're talking about John Cena, Randy Orton, people like that.

[A]

Oh, Michael, you got it. Oh, of course, Michael Freeman wouldn't work. Michael tells everybody nothing's gonna work to Michael's. But then he admits that he's wrong to Michael's.

[B]

He said, do it. And I can't wait to tell you guys it's wrong. And I remember him sitting there and then he was forthcoming afterwards because he's been right so many times in his career to take that random shot and, you know, show his foot going through the table. I mean, to this day, people think they used the B word for it. I'm like, great. Then it was, we have not much wrong vowel. It's all good.

[A]

Yeah, but it worked because of Sho's reaction.

[B]

It's the whole thing. And that's how he really was as a giant. Like, I don't know if you were there at the Big Texan Steakhouse in Amarillo, when we're all sitting, it's a giant group of us. That's where if you eat the 70 something ounce steak with the potato and veggies, you get your picture on the wall. We're all sitting there. Two things happen that day.

[A]

Hey, I need a refill. Can we call?

[B]

Yes. For sure, sure.

[A]

I need more drink.

[B]

I'll actually take one myself. There we go.

[A]

Stun and walk back in here.

[B]

Stun and walk.

[A]

No, no, this is a soundproof door.

[B]

I think it's have to come down the stairs to the speakeasy.

[A]

Is there, are there customers up there? Push to exit. Hey.

[B]

All right.

[A]

Thank you. That was so quick.

[B]

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[A]

Oh, yeah. Okay.

[B]

Show sitting at the edge. It's a rare moment. You know, it's always a rare moment when all the talent get together to do something.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So everyone is.

[A]

It's so rare that I never do it. So that's. So actually, I went to eat with Randy Waller theory, Carmelo Hayes and a few others very recently. It was shocking.

[B]

So that's a shocking moment.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So we're all there together.

[A]

Steakhouse. I'm not there.

[B]

Two things are happening.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

Randy's going through a milk phase. He'll be okay with me sharing this, but everything was whole milk. So he's ordering whole milk. He's wearing black jeans. He's only brought one pair. And this waiter comes out with a tray of drinks and he spills. He literally. You see the wobble? He spills the milk on Randy's jeans. And I remember Randy was so Randy. He was like, well, it's not your fault, but, you know, I only got one pair of jeans, so what are we gonna do here? You know, like, not your fault, but maybe you're carrying.

[A]

Maybe you're carrying too many.

[B]

Clearly it's not your fault.

[A]

Maybe you're carrying too many. And he's laughing maniacally, super intimidating like.

[B]

Yeah, it is his fault. And like the guy feels bad already. But the way you're saying is making it far worse. Like, please, let's end this. But what ended it actually was show in a very giant fashion show is sitting Athena table watching it all. It's all happening together. And then of course, did you offer Randy his jeans? No, because his chair shattered. His chair shattered and he falls to the floor. And the problem then became he can't get up because we're all locked into this table. And so then to make it right on stage is a prop chair. There's a stage in the big Texan. It's this prop big oak throne that they use. Like, hey, get the big Texan. Come get your picture up here. They brought it down for him to sit in and he was like, I'm fine. I can sit in a regular chair. I'm fine. And it was just an amazing like everything right happened. If you were gonna attend an all talent event, like everything right happened but the milk, then the fall. But his face was the same when he stepped through the table. And I always thought, oh man, I learned. Have you ever heard the hey, I don't wanna do comedy story? Have I ever told you that story?

[A]

Big Show?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

No. But I can imagine knowing Paul went.

[B]

Strong on that one. Okay, so I wrestled show 11 nights.

[A]

Before you go into this, just cause it's. We're hovering around the topic of Big show breaking a chair.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Did you ever hear the story of him breaking the chair because of me? And that's the moment he knew he liked me. And I entered Big Show's golden circle at that point.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So I'm in NXT at the time and we're having our first out of state show at the Arnold Classic.

[B]

Huge deal, baby.

[A]

Yeah, huge deal for nxt. But before the Arnold Classic and we're going to have shows there, we had a TV taping. I want to say Cleveland maybe, maybe it was a Columbus, I'm not even sure. But we're in this building, you know, not a huge building, but NXT starting to garner some, you know, starting to get some steam. But still, in order to make sure there's a lot of people there, they booked a main roster match. No offense to show probably the worst match main roster match to book on that NXT show. Considering what NXT show flavors are very different.

[B]

Flavors are very different.

[A]

So the crowd was not kind to them. Yeah, unfortunately. But they had a good match. Just wasn't the kind of wrestling they were there to see. So Sho comes back after and he, you know, I don't know him at all at that point, but I can tell he's not too happy. You know, he's a little down. He's not upset, he's just a little down that, you know, didn't get the most positive response. I was wrestling one Alex Riley.

[B]

Okay. Yeah, that Alex Riley. Yeah.

[A]

Intense individual, right?

[B]

Very.

[A]

So I'm wrestling him. He's the babyface. Nobody likes him. They like me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So whatever, I'm wrestling him. I put him away with a pop of powerbomb. That wasn't quite a pop of powerbomb because he didn't. Didn't really get up for it.

[B]

So it was whatever it was half up powerbomb.

[A]

Then Finn Balor comes out to stop me from attacking Alex Riley some more after the match.

[B]

Oh, you were picking the bones.

[A]

Riley rolls out of the ring to the floor. Finn puts me down, goes up top. He's about to hit me with his coup de grass. Kud grass. Grass. It's French.

[B]

Coup de grass.

[A]

Coup de grass.

[B]

Kud grass.

[A]

It's actually coup de grass. Yeah. Anyway, I roll out, run away.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And as I turn the corner, cuz the way the ring is, there's a stage, just like at the steakhouse probably. I have to run around, up and then to go through the entrance.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But as I cut the corner, Alex Riley happens to be on the ground selling. So as I pass, I throw a kick at him. Sho saw it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Thought it was the funniest thing. Burst out laughing, broke his chair right then and there. His movement come back to him on the ground, dying of laughter. Everybody circled around trying to pick him up. Hunter comes to tell me that the kick you threw at Riley was so funny. Sho broke his chair.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And Sean told me right then and there, you're in forever. It was so good. You're in. And later. And since then, still we keep in touch. One of the kindest people. Just because I made him laugh.

[B]

I remember the kick. And I also think it's funny that the reason the chair broke is because just the added moment of him laughing, just his pop, his pop literally caused it to break. He was so this.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

He was so helpful.

[A]

I don't want to be comedy.

[B]

So 11 shows, the old school Europe tours, you know, you'd go 17 days door to door, you do four or five shows. You do TV, you do the other. After a while, they'd split it where, like, one guy was not on both tours, but in the beginning, you were on the whole loop. And I wrestled show every single night. And we were outside of our WrestleMania match, but now we were pretty much married together. And one night this rubber chicken comes in the ring and he's beating me with his rubber chicken. Fan through it, fan through it. And like, I remember him telling me, like, feed up. And he just smacks me across the face with it and then spit soda on me. I mean, it's just a real, A real mess. And I decided I'm gonna stand up for myself tomorrow. I've. I've got. This is too much. This is too much.

[A]

So you were the one that said, I don't want to do comedy.

[B]

So what? I told him, and I'll never forget it. And it was one of the greatest lessons I've ever learned in the wrestling business, in any business. I told him we were in the locker room at a show that randomly, Phil Collins was at as well. I'm sitting there and he comes in, I go, hey, you know, I don't really want to do haha anymore. I don't. And he just kind of went like, says, okay, well, can I tell you what to do then? I said, yes, please. I'm thinking, I've. We've walked this bridge, we're good. He goes, well, get over then. And he leaves. And I thought, great, great. Yep, that's 100%. And then that night, we did more comedy than we've ever done before. I mean, the chicken somehow was back. It was at more than ever, and the crowd was coming in a way that afterwards he goes, I don't know much, but did you hear him? And I said, yes, I did. He goes, that's when you come back here. And this is. Was so true, and especially in Europe, because I've had such a wonderful experience in Europe. He goes, when you come back here, they'll remember that, they'll like you, they'll respect you, you've built an equity with them. And I know you. He was telling me, he's like, I know you don't believe me. You probably think it's, you know, just filler. But I'm telling you. And he was totally right. And I'll never forget it. It was one of the best things ever. He. It's so funny that you're talking about Big show because you and Big show were two of the first people to literally raise their hand and Say, what do you need to me? So Big show set me on the. The Hollywood path. Hey, go meet my agent at A.P.A. jeff, which is a great legendary agent in LA. Go meet him, tell him what you want to do. Just a general meeting. He's my guy. Tell him you've left wwe, you're looking to get out there. He'll set you up on some meetings. And he did. And it was prolific and it worked out. And I had no brand value compared. It's just coming from wwe. These weren't wrestling people. I was walking into their world. And then you, of course, and we have to talk about it being here in this conversation with you. You of course told me, if you can talk to Madden, Nick, Maddenick Jackson, the Young Bucks, and see, see, you know, if there's anything there. Because we were going to be in the same places. We were going to be at Ring of Honor together. The Bullet Club thing had been decided, or maybe it even hadn't at that point.

[A]

I don't think it had.

[B]

But I remember telling them because we, we got along and nice, but obviously Matt and Nick were kind of their own enterprise. They were doing their own thing, killing the business, all their, their, their stuff.

[A]

Well, so they were right after I left the independent scene and I was at the top of the Indies when I left. They were the guys that were right behind me and took that spot. And before me was Colt. So I blew like my blueprint was. I basically listened to a lot of Colt's advice.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Colt made me join Twitter. I didn't want anything to do with social media.

[B]

Well, God bless him for that. Yeah.

[A]

But at the time, he was like, get on Twitter, tweet every day. You gotta like, this is how you're gonna grow your, your following this and that. He was ahead of the curve.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Colt created the Colt. I'm the reason why pro wrestling tees exists.

[B]

I believe it.

[A]

Because at the time. Thanks. Colt kept telling, you're welcome.

[B]

Thanks. Colt kept money.

[A]

Colt kept telling me, you gotta get T shirts and sell merch.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because I. What happened is in 2012, I stopped my day job. Couldn't work there anymore. Had to go full in Wrestling. Wrestling's gonna be my sole source of income.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

I have a kid. I need. Like, I need it. I lost my job. I don't know what to do. Colt's like, get merch. Like, I don't. I can't afford it. I can't afford to pay $500 to have all these T shirts made. Like, what do I do. Colt talked to, at the time, the owner of One Hour Tees, Ryan. Ryan.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And told him, look, he had this idea. He's like, some wrestlers cannot afford to make shirts up ahead of time.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then they came up with this concept because of me.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

It was trying to help me.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

And then the first on. The first ones on the site were me, Bucks, Colt.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then the site grew and grew and grew.

[B]

I got bummed out, by the way, recently, they took my. Finally. I had been on the storefront forever, and they.

[A]

Your face was still on.

[B]

Me and Brandy were still on.

[A]

How did no one get furious about this before?

[B]

I joked with him, like, ah, that makes sense. But in my heart, I wanted to tell him, hey, I wish I was still up there. Just because that was such a. I.

[A]

Also got sad when they took me down after I left.

[B]

It was a fun thing.

[A]

We were the pioneers.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, you. You. The fact that that exists. So many people, not just wrestlers anymore, so many people that what you're talking about specifically is making a ton of shirts versus a print to, like, print.

[A]

To order on demand.

[B]

On demand. So, hey, they want 40, you know, they want 300 shirts have been ordered overnight. Great. We can print them versus making them, sending them to you, paying for them, and having to go out and sell them all.

[A]

Yeah. Because you're. It's a. It's an investment. You're taking a gamble.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But then, you know, for me, what was amazing about that website was from that point on, Ring of Honor got mad at me at the time. Joe cough, bless him, great guy. But we got into it about it, because at that time, all I would say was, this is my version of the Undertaker's WrestleMania streak, which I've sold a shirt every single day since that website opened. And I just. Every day I would tweet streak. I would tweet the streak's. I think today's the day that the streak ends. And always somebody would go, oh, I'll go buy a shirt. Which I never lied. Never. Not once did I tweet. I think the streak's ending today. If a shirt had been sold that day, but if I tweeted, haven't sold a shirt today, I think the streak's over. Not only somebody would show up. Not just one person would, though, because everybody would want to help. So I sell 50 shirts just like that. I was paying my rent every month. I wouldn't have to worry about my rent anymore because of this. Anyway, so the blueprint was I followed Colt's advice, and then after I left the Bucks, they had made themselves into this entity, this act that it didn't matter where they were going. They were a must see. People were gonna pay money to see them. And on the independent scene, that was a rare.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

It was a rare thing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That. To the point where I remember 2 CW. You wrestled for 2 CW. This guy Josh. Anyway, I loved working for them. They literally were trying to book the Bucks. They were trying to book the Bucks for one of their shows. Couldn't book them Thursdays, Fridays, Saturdays. They were just too busy Sundays every. So they put a show on a Tuesday and they called it. We're having a show on a Tuesday night because it's literally the only date the young Bucks were available for.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And they sold out on a Tuesday night in the middle of the school week.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So they were. That's why when you left, I said, these are the guys you need to. Yeah, whatever you. And, you know, at that point, I've been back in WWE a year and a half, two years. I wasn't super in touch with the independent scene anymore. I don't know what changed. I don't know what hasn't, but I know what hasn't changed is that these guys are the most successful.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And they'll help you because I know they're good guys. They're great guys. They will help you. And, you know, God, couldn't have guessed what would come out of it.

[B]

Again, it's unchart. It's uncharted.

[A]

Your face is on a vodka bottle.

[B]

Cheers to Mad Nick. Cheers. For sure. They deserve that.

[A]

With new McValue at McDonald's, you get more than you expect. So after a long day, buy a double cheeseburger and add a McChicken for a dollar. Because saving with deals is always on the menu with new MCvalue. Prices and participation may vary. Ballot for item of equal or lesser value.

[B]

You mentioned a bunch of stuff that I wanted to kind of, like, jump in on, but one of them was the face of the Independents. You were the face. Colt was the face. They were the face. I enjoyed that moment. Who do you think now in 2025, is the face of the independents?

[A]

Man, I don't even. I can't tell you because I don't. Yeah, I don't follow it enough. And I do. Like, I am a huge wrestling fan. I try to follow as much wrestling as I can.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Everything's changed so much.

[B]

It really has. It really.

[A]

It almost feels. And I know I'm gonna get, you know, in relative trouble for this with.

[B]

The fans, but welcome to my life.

[A]

I don't. It almost feels like there is no independent scene anymore. And I know there is. I just don't know enough about it because it's just not what it used to be. A lot of it is because independent talents of the last few years have been signed to, you know, so they're somewhere. I don't know. And I'm not saying there's no independent standouts. I just don't know. I just don't know them. And, you know, probably a lot of it is I have less time to pay attention to wrestling, but I. I wish I had an answer. I really don't. I don't really know who's out there.

[B]

I feel like. So here's something that's kind of caused me a little bit of pause is looking at it, and that spot was very clear, what you just described. Colt Kevin. It was clear because anytime a promotion couldn't get you on a date, I remember, for me, it was Wrestle Circus. They couldn't get me. And I said, this is the one date.

[A]

Texas.

[B]

Yep. I said, this is the one date I have. Can I. Can you do this? I know it doesn't fit. And they said for that, they made a show for me to come to. And I. I remember I had a bunch of caveats, like we did at Austin Pets Alive. I had shelter dogs and rescue dogs there.

[A]

I remember that.

[B]

And one of the basset hounds, he got brought home. I was so happy because he was walking around with, like, a adopt me vest on. Amongst hardcore wrestling fans, I'm like, please, someone adopt this basset hound and the girl. This is crazy. There's photos of it. The girl from Austin Pets Alive got in the ring with me after to say, hey, this Chihuahua, some rescue Chihuahua. And I had done a tack spot. So there's tacks. There's one in the back of my head. There's one in my elbow. I'm bleeding from my back. And I could see her face. She was shaking when she got in the ring. Like, what is this? And why are people. Why do they want the dogs? And I was like, yeah, like, the wrestling fans love dogs. They love dogs. They love cats. Like, it ended up a couple dogs went home that night. But, yeah, that's always a huge moment. So I would say. I'd shout out, and I know you're gonna be like, I think Matt Cardona has held the spot. But what concerns me is how would I be.

[A]

Er.

[B]

I don't know. You and him had kind of a Rocky.

[A]

No, we don't. I love Matt.

[B]

The only thing I'll say is I didn't know that.

[A]

For a guy who loves being on the Indies so much, he sure talks about how much he wants to be back in WWE A lot. That's all. You can't call yourself King of the Indies. You're going out there telling people. I don't know why WWE hasn't signed me. I don't get it. If I. If I was them, I definitely would have signed me. Are you happy or not, dude, that's it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I love Matt. No problems. Don't like his tan. Told him this to his.

[B]

You don't like a good wrestler tan?

[A]

No. Bron Breakker should be arrested.

[B]

What are you offended about Bronze tan? Is it more the color or is it the fact that he is not putting his arms up in the tanning bin?

[A]

None of it's good.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

None of it's good.

[B]

You don't like the tan?

[A]

No, dude, you weren't born that color. I understand if you want to be a little darker.

[B]

Bro, I've wrestled with you where I'm like, eight shades darker.

[A]

Yeah. What do you mean you've done?

[B]

Yeah. Okay.

[A]

Well, I'm sure I would have judged you at that time, too, but I happened to. Didn't see those. But also, if your tan looks like it could rub off on someone else. Yeah, it's too much.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know what I hate the most is when I go in the locker room, try to go to the restroom before a match. I'm walking. I've got my boots. Oh, this slit.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Layer of fake tanner.

[B]

What you're specifically describing is Quick Tan, which is what?

[A]

I don't care. The method. What the method is anything that makes you look like that and then you don't clean up after yourself or it's.

[B]

Hard to clean up.

[A]

What about the guys who go trim their beards or their armpits in front of the mirror before the show and just leave the hair there?

[B]

No good psychopaths. Here's. Okay, so you're mentioning Quick Tan, which is a product that a lot of wrestlers use, and I've used it before. It's a really fine mist, but it does get on the floor where you can't see it, and it is slippery as can be.

[A]

It's disgusting. So wrestlers use it and then it ends up on the. It ends up on the ring because you walk in it or you guys sweat it off ends up in the ring everywhere.

[B]

Depends on when you put it on. The wrestler you're talking about specifically. The one who's causing a slippery floor and a mess is the dude who throws it on. 30 minutes.

[A]

That's everyone.

[B]

Dude, not everyone.

[A]

I should be doing this shit. And no. Who am I fooling?

[B]

I gotta be. I wanna. I wanna just rewind us a second because quick Dan is a big discussion. But we mentioned Matt Cardona.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you. You mentioned. I would say he's one of my five.

[A]

Okay. So you know how I know this?

[B]

How?

[A]

You never invite me. You never invite me when you. You, when you go with them to Disney. Never invite me.

[B]

You've been to Disney in Japan.

[A]

Then you blame Matt for it. Did you know this? Matt. This asshole always blames you. Says Matt doesn't want you there. Correct.

[B]

I have never.

[A]

Truth or truth?

[B]

I don't think I've ever said Matt doesn't want.

[A]

Liar.

[B]

No, well, I mean, you, you went to Disney Sea with me. In Japan.

[A]

That's right. In Japan, when you knew Matt was going to be nowhere near around.

[B]

I'll.

[A]

I'll ask you. And then we couldn't corroborate our full of shit.

[B]

I'll actually reel this podcast completely in and ask you about. You said when we were talking about the independent wrestling scene, you said you did not have the Rhodes name. There's a reason why I kind of chuckled in that moment.

[A]

Because you on the Independence, you couldn't use it.

[B]

Well, no, no, in the moment. The reason I'm chuckling is because there is a photo that's out there on the Internet.

[A]

Yeah, the family photo.

[B]

Yes. Of my entire family.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

Standing with the dusty statue. And right at the end.

[A]

I'm glad you bring that up.

[B]

Right at the end is one who is technically not family, but to me is family. And that's you.

[A]

That's nice. Yes. But recently I heard you tell that story, the story of the photo on WWE programming. And you definitely, for sure, let people believe that I just jumped into the picture without being invited into it, which is inaccurate. Just like your retelling of me kicking out at one from the disaster kick, when that was one. Jon Moxley.

[B]

Yeah. I needed it to be you.

[A]

I was the only. And look, I loved your dad. You know this. Yeah. And everyone in NXT loved your dad.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But the morning before they unveiled his statue at 9am at Access 1, NXT, guy that showed up, it was me. Because I wanted to see it. I wanted to see the Statue. And I'm ringside with the fans.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you go, kevin, get in here. I go, no, like, get in here. All right. Get in the picture. And then you spend years letting people think that I just jumped into your family picture and ruined this special moment.

[B]

I invited you into the photo. I invited you in the photo. I invited Kevin into the photo.

[A]

This better make it. Do not edit that out.

[B]

And why I invited you into the photo was because I felt like if you look at the NXT class of the Dusties kids, there's like a really small percentage. Actually he coached a lot and he did a lot of promo work with a lot. But there's really a small percentage that he connected with and he linked with in a way that, that's my guy, that's my girl, you know, And I think probably Bailey, Becky, Colby, I feel like it was small. It was a short amount of people that he would go to a show or he would go to a Triple H or somebody and say, I can take this person. I can get them where they need to go. And you were somebody that was really special to him. And it wasn't a matter of. Sometimes with the Dusty's kids, I would be jealous of them. And other times I would look at it and go, oh, I like that. I'm so glad he connected with that person, because I don't know if you know what he would write for. For example, I know what he wrote for Daniel Bryan. It's so crazy. Like, they. They had these reports. Some of them are. They leaked online recently, but these reports, and I remember what he wrote for Daniel Bryan in one of his reports was, why is this guy here? He's ready to be on the main roster. That's it. Yeah. So I could tell there was no love. Sure. He. He definitely knew his business. He's ready, he's good. He doesn't need to be here. But when it would come to one of his people, man, you know, like how you would talk about Corey Graves, how he would talk about you. It was a really. He needed that. And I always thought, like, again, here you are. You're the only one who showed up for the statue. Unveiling of the statue.

[A]

I mean, a lot of them were probably busy doing stuff at accident.

[B]

Also, the statue in my family is a rather polarizing statue because my mom is not a fan. But all of us thought like, oh, we love it. It's great. That's a good shot of him, you know?

[A]

You know, I think I had an unfair advantage on. In terms of becoming one of Dusty's guys. Right. Is. And this is a very cherished memory I have. It was outside the PC.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I got signed to NXT in July of 2014. Officially, I got told my tryout was In March of 2014, May 12, 2014, Canyon Seaman called me, told me, we're going to sign you July, end of July, they brought me in just for a weekend. There was going to be an NXT television taping Thursday. They wanted me on Wednesday. Come to the taping Thursday. Yeah, Go home Friday. And then, you know, a lot of the class, a lot of my crop that was getting signed were going to start in December, but I told them I have to start before that because my kids would start school in August. I don't want to bring them to the US to a new school system in the middle of the school year. So. Okay, we'll start you in August. So I got brought in that weekend with Finn and Hideo, Genta and Fergle, and it was super awkward because what happened? So we just basically trained a few times that week with, you know, some of the classes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then we went to the NXT show, the TV taping. And at the end of the taping, you know, it's the Full Sail Auditorium. So Hunter is having a speech to all the NXT guys. He literally sits. The auditorium is split. There's two sections and a staircase in between that goes down Hunter's at the bottom of the staircase sits every single NXT people on one side and sits me, Fergal and Kenta on the other side.

[B]

Oh, man. So it's the three of us putting the pressure on.

[A]

And he goes, NXT is becoming something different, something new. Everyone's gotta be at the top of their game because you see those three, they're gonna change everything. It's like those three come out, three of you go out. The next day, they fire five people. But I remember seeing that the next day at the airport. I sat, I was sitting at the gate, was flying back home. And I had a very stressful day that morning because my flight was like 2, 3pm but that morning I'm like, okay, now I got to find a house for my family and I got to find a school for my kids. They're starting in three weeks, so I have to find a house to move into that's big enough for my whole family and I. And figure out what their school's going to be. So I basically, at 7 in the morning that Friday, I went, I looked on a website, what's the best schools in Orlando. Best elementary school is this one. I went to that neighborhood, which happened to be 20 minutes from the PC, and I looked, okay, on whatever, Zillow, whatever website.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Houses for sale, for rent, because I couldn't buy. Yeah, okay, there's a house up there. Then I went and tried to visit, but, you know, can't visit a house in the matter of 20 minutes. Whatever.

[B]

No, no.

[A]

And then I go to the airport. I'm super stressed because I'm trying to make this happen. And I'm sitting and I see WWE's release NXT 5 NXT talent. I'm like, holy, they weren't joking.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then I swear, it was so weird. Somebody sits down next to me. So what do you think? And I turn and it's Dusty. He was on his way to a convention, and we're on the same flight, and then we spent an hour talking. He's like, whoa, would you. What are you doing? Because he was looking at me. He saw me looking at houses. So I explained this whole thing to him. I got to figure out a way to get my kids into this school. They're moving in from Canada. Got to figure out whatever needs to happen for them to be in that school. Got to figure out a house to rent, all this stuff. And in that moment, he told me, no way you can do it. No way you can make that happen. It's not going to happen. You have three weeks. Can't do it. Showed up the PC my first day, opened the door and goes, did you do it? I go, I did. I knew you would, you know what I mean? And then that was it. We spent an hour talking in that airport just about life, about family, about everything. Not one talk about. Not one word about wrestling.

[B]

Like, yeah.

[A]

And that was it, man. I showed up a month later and it was like I hadn't seen him for a month, but it was just like, you know what I mean? I could already tell there was something.

[B]

Do you know what it was like? Do you know what. What he probably sensed?

[A]

I mean, I remember him telling me that he could feel my family was the real motivation behind all this.

[B]

So that's a. I feel like he grew up in a generation. He. He kind of thrived in a generation where it was almost in spite of your family. And I don't mean that in a neck. I guess your family was supported, but you were out there, you were doing it, you were living it. And we did it differently. He was very much, this is for my family, like, this is for them. And, you know, like, to me, he's the greatest wrestler of all time. And that's why, you know, like, I don't think I got good at this, Kevin, until I had Liberty, you know, like, I don't think I saw why. Sorry. I don't think I saw why I wanted to do it. Everything else was like, oh, I can get ahead of him, I can get ahead of her, whatever it may be. But then when I had Liberty, I thought, like, ah, I don't need any of that.

[A]

Yeah. Because it becomes about making sure somebody else has a good life as opposed to your own personal.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I want to be. I want to show that I'm a top guy. If you're a top guy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know what I mean? But you don't see that until later. And like, I was the same way, man. Like, I was obsessed with wrestling my whole life.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I remember this guy Neil, he used to wrestle in the Independence back in Canada's Beef Wellington.

[B]

I know. Beef Wellington, right? I know.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. So we were friends. We were friendly. We're friends now. But at the time, I can't say. Here's a tissue.

[B]

Thanks. I can't start my own damn show.

[A]

I can't say we were friends. Like, we had a bit. Because to his. In his opinion, I was a bit of an.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

When I was training for wrestling before, I had a family.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And maybe I was, because I knew I was. I knew I was the best in Quebec along with Sammy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I don't know. Maybe I was a bit arrogant. Maybe not. I probably was. I'll own to it. I was immature. I was immature as well. So his, his, his. In his opinion, I was an asshole. Okay. But I remember him telling me years later and telling other people once Owen was born, my son was born. He's like, I changed completely. And he's like, from that point on, I've never had a problem with you because you were a different person.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And even when wrestling came into play, you. Everything was different. The way you saw wrestling, the way you act about wrestling. Because also he would run or he would book a company, iws, back in Canada. And Yeah. Before Owen, I guess I was a certain way about it. And then after Owen, it was about trying to make money and trying to make sure that this kid has stuff to eat and toys to play with and. Right. It really does change everything.

[B]

Yeah. No, yeah. You set a good life.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Good life. I. We mentioned our Disney trip. We went to Tokyo. Disneysea. You And I. And I remember it was fun because I got to. You got to see it kind of through my eyes with Liberty. But also, Owen was there, so I got to hang out and talk. Talk to him.

[A]

Remember, I texted you after.

[B]

Yeah, I do.

[A]

Yeah. I told you. I wish I could speak to my son the way you talk to him.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because raising a kid is amazing, but difficult, even if they're a good kid.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Owen's an amazing kid, but it's tricky, man.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Always worried about them up. Always worried about doing something wrong, saying something wrong.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that summer, I took him to Japan for the first time. It was a dream of his to go to Japan.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

WWE was kind enough to pay for his whole travel, first class, everything. Incredible. So I brought him with me, and then we went on that Disney trip with you. And just seeing you guys interact, I was like, man, I wish I could interact with him the way you did. But then I kind of realized later on, like, it's not my role.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know what I mean?

[B]

Well, I feel.

[A]

Yeah. It was a great day, man. To this day, still, just. It was just such a great experience to first of all, be with you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Hang out with you. Hang out with Brandy. Liberty was a little standoffish.

[B]

That photo of her is so great.

[A]

I still think she was looking at Masa.

[B]

Her. Me bugging you. It might have been.

[A]

I'm telling you, she was looking at Masa.

[B]

Masa. And when I say we were on that trip with fat ass Masa.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

We say that. That's not a joke. That is the name. He likes to be referred to as Fat Ass Masa, my friend. You know what's so funny about you saying to me, I wish my. You know, I wish Owen would talk to you like he is.

[A]

Well, he talks. It's. It's. He talks to me great. But I don't think I have. I couldn't. It's so weird, man. The way you connected with him is the way I wish I could connect with him. But then I realized, well, it's like. It's a different thing, too.

[B]

You're his dad.

[A]

There's a different role. Exactly.

[B]

So the way my dad connected with you. Right. I wish I could have connected with my dad.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

But he was my dad. You're his dad.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And buddy already. Mission accomplished. A good life. I know we've got a lot ahead of us.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

For sure. But, like, that's. Man, for. That was so much fun. So much fun. Oh, my gosh.

[A]

Well, yeah, it was a Great time.

[B]

Cheers, bud.

[A]

Cheers.

[B]

Cheers. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Let's talk numbers. Traditional in person therapy can cost anywhere from 100 to $250 per session, which adds up fast. With BetterHelp online therapy, you can save on average up to 50% of per session. With BetterHelp, you pay a flat fee for weekly sessions, saving you big on cost and on time. Therapy should feel accessible, not like a luxury. With online therapy, you get quality care at a price that makes sense and can help you with anything from anxiety to everyday stress. Your mental health is worth it, and now it's within reach. With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform, having served over 5 million globally. It's convenient, too. You can join a session with the click of a button, helping you fit therapy into your busy life, plus switch therapists at any time. Your well being is worth it. Visit betterhelp.com Cody to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H E L p.com Cody, our mutual friend Kirschenbaum, he wanted me to ask you how your figure fed was doing. Because I know you had a figure fed at one point and on the original KO show before it ever came to WWE television, he wanted me to ask how it was doing because I know you used breaking real glass to simulate Steve Austin. I don't know if you have your figure fed anymore.

[A]

It was a glass. I don't. I left my figures back home.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Now I do collect figures still, but of my friends, I know if I go to the store, I see a figure of one of my friends. Eventually, when I feel settled in my house, which I am settled, I just haven't had to think of the time I'll put them all up and I'm like, yeah, be able to look around and go, wow, look at me and my friends. Yeah, this is what we accomplish. Scott, figures of you. I got figures of, you know, I've got the bucks, I got Sammy, I've got Finn, I've got Becky, I've got Brit, I've got a lot of my friends. And I'm like, I can't wait to put all these up and think, man, look at all what me and my friends were managed to accomplish in our lives, you know? So I don't play with the figures anymore. But yeah, there's a famous clip on the Internet of me and one Jimmy Jacobs, who I love, one of my brothers, one of the guys I would take a bullet for. Where would you take the bullet for Jimmy.

[B]

Yeah. Like, where there's.

[A]

Oh, well, I guess there are different levels, but I. Yeah, there's. There's different levels. Head, heart, whatever.

[B]

Gotcha.

[A]

Other guys probably in the shin. The knee.

[B]

Yeah. Who's a shin guy? Who's a shin guy?

[A]

Well, okay, so in fairness, I got.

[B]

A couple heart, head guys, and then I got some shin guys. Sean Spears. I'm taking it in the ribs for. You know, I'm not. I'm not going down fully. God bless Sean, you know, Julian, Ethan, Page, shin. You know.

[A]

Oh, man. I'd run away from the bullet. No, that's not true. I'd probably take a bullet for almost anybody, but it depends where. Yeah. If you tell me, I'm gonna shoot you in the foot. It's either I shoot you in the foot or I shoot Ethan in the head. I'm like, shoot me in the foot.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But if it's. I'll shoot you in the chest.

[B]

Such a ridiculous.

[A]

Can you run?

[B]

You know, that's a ridiculous game.

[A]

Yeah. You, Randy, Jimmy, Sammy, Finn, Becky. All in the heart.

[B]

It's weird that you're friends with Finn, in my opinion. No. Because he's an exceptional human being, one of my favorite people, and he's incredibly honest. He'll send me some messages that I will treasure for the rest of my life. Things that I'm like, man, I'm so glad another peer said that to me. I needed him to say that to me at that time. I have messages from Fergal that I have saved that almost, like, steal my resolve. But it just seems that because you're very different.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Very different. But maybe that's.

[A]

We're actually. I don't think we're that different.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I think to the. On the surface, we look like we're different, but at the deeper core, we're actually very similar.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I would say he's the person in. In my life, actually. Your dad. So I knew your dad for a very short time. I didn't have the pleasure of knowing him long, but I became very close to him very quickly. The next person right after that is Ferg. We became so close so quickly because the first time I met him, I had heard from him. I'd heard about him for years. The Bucks would talk him, all this stuff. Never met him even. This is the funny part. The Bucks would talk about him so positively, so glowingly that I almost didn't like him.

[B]

Yeah, of course. I know that feeling.

[A]

You know what I mean? Then I met Him. I was like, oh, they're right. This guy rules. So anyway, he became a very good friend of mine very quickly. So, yeah, he's. Shoot me in the head, Shoot me in the heart. Whatever you need. I forget where I was going with this.

[B]

I love how we listed who's the shin people. Hey, well, I don't know where I rank on your heart.

[A]

Heart and head.

[B]

Oh, good. Well, that'll make this next part even better.

[A]

But wait, where are we going with this? There's a reason why we brought this up.

[B]

I don't remember. It's what happens. The Wheatley American vodka. God bless him. It's not water dog.

[A]

Oh, yeah, the clip. Jimmy Jacobs. I get shot in the face for him any day, but I'm doing the interview with him. There's a very famous clip on YouTube where I talk about how when I was younger, I would play with my figures. And this one particular day, I wanted to capture the essence of Stone Cold's entrance.

[B]

Of course.

[A]

What do I need to do? Playing the music's not enough. I want an actual glass break. But I chose a coffee mug, which. It's not glass.

[B]

No, that's different. Ceramic.

[A]

And I threw it at the wall, which was just drywall.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Not brick. Didn't break. Just got encased, Literally, this noise. And the best part, at the time, we were living with my grandparents. My grandmother. My dad's at work. My grandmother is sitting on her rocking chair, thankfully blissfully unaware of pretty much anything in life at that point. You know, she. Unless I yelled at her, grandma, pizza's here. She's not moving from that chair. Yeah, she didn't hear the. Just. The mug just gets stuck in the wall.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

My dad came home at that exact moment. The disappointment. And you know what the best part is? He doesn't remember it. I think he blocked it out of his head. He was so disappointed.

[B]

You didn't.

[A]

The disappointment in his mind when he saw this. And I'm telling Jimmy this story, and then I reveal, as he's taken a.

[B]

I was waiting, stun and briskly walled.

[A]

Yeah, I saw. Let's do the energy drink. I saw him as he's about to take a sip of his drink, and I'm waiting. I'm kind of, you know, drawing it on because I want. As he's about to take a sip, I go, I was 17, lost. It came out of his nose, came out, spitzed it out everywhere. And I was. Then I tried to walk it back, by the way, in the clip. I go, okay, maybe you're not 17. Maybe like 14 or 15. I was 17. Might have been 18. It might have even been worse. But his reaction made me feel a little shameful.

[B]

Of course.

[A]

But, yeah, I used to have an E Fed. I don't anymore. But Jamie Noble still does. Has a great one.

[B]

I don't know if we want to draw. He does.

[A]

What do you mean? We don't want to draw attention to it. Yes, we do.

[B]

He does have more attention.

[A]

He loves to have more attention on it. He does find Jamie Noble's Instagram. Is it Instagram?

[B]

I think is where he's publishing. Yeah.

[A]

Guys. Booking shows. The blow.

[B]

Your talented producer, by the way. Right?

[A]

Great. Amazing. He's great. I've tried to be a tag team with him on television for years. The closest we came is when I punched Waller and Theory in the face at the same time. Jamie was part of it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I was like, that's it. This is our debut. We were on TV together. We're just gonna keep rolling with it.

[B]

I like how you try to be a tag team with Jamie. One that I've been trying for years and just not gonna happen. I keep trying to get Abyss. Abyss into the Royal Rumble.

[A]

What? Yeah. It came so close one year.

[B]

I know. I know. I just.

[A]

I think it's too late. Yeah.

[B]

Some things are.

[A]

He lost too much weight.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

He's. I think it. Putting him in the ring at this point, when he walks that way would be illegal. But we love Chris. Chris Park.

[B]

We do. We talked about him on the one with Priest because he's. He's such a unique producer. Agent to get just. Yeah.

[A]

Oh, well, during the Pandemic era, he was a producer a couple times for me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I'm the kind of guy who wants to figure out at the last second, last minute.

[B]

We should talk about that, by the way.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

We should talk about this. Me and you are polar opposites in terms of preparation.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you and Sammy, who we've. I've loved that we've gone this whole pod without really touching.

[A]

Amazing.

[B]

Because clearly. Same.

[A]

So this is the Stun and walk away a little bit.

[B]

Stun and walk away. Thank you, sir. Thank you again. Our friends at Wheatley American Vodka. Thank you. Stun and walk away.

[A]

This is the most I've drank in at least five years, if not more. Five years. What am I saying?

[B]

I can tell. And I'm with you.

[A]

Whoa.

[B]

Stunning. Maybe run well.

[A]

No, I can't. Now more than ever, not run. But you and Sammy stun and definitely Get a Uber home.

[B]

You and Sammy are so, so on a different timetable. It's like rap time. I will be there at like noon and be thinking of what we're doing and then talk to the person that we're working with and whatever. And then Sammy. And here's. I want to completely round this out for people so they know there's really no wrong and there's really no right.

[A]

There's definitely. But then, Sammy, there's a right to 90% of the people. And then there's a 10% that will not think we're wrong.

[B]

But then. But no, no. Here's why I think it's. Here's why I think there's no wrong and no right. Because Sammy will be at the last minute.

[A]

He'll show up at 3:30 wanting to.

[B]

Change a fundamental massive feature.

[A]

40 seconds before we go out, right before.

[B]

And he is taping his wrist as his music is playing.

[A]

No, but wait. What if we do this instead? Yeah, and then we're in gorilla. The music's playing. He's like, we gotta go. No, no, but here. No, but just duck that and then throw it. Okay. He got it. Did he get it?

[B]

It's the opposite of my life.

[A]

Hey, Jamie, Jamie, can you tell the ref to tell him to duck and then throw? Yeah.

[B]

It's the opposite of my life.

[A]

Are we saying too much?

[B]

Not at all. And full. Like, I've got my aminos. I stretched out. I've oiled up. I'm ready to go. It's the opposite of my life but.

[A]

Here'S what I've never stretched.

[B]

Here's what I've discovered, of course, here's what I discovered, especially with you and Sammy. You will go out there and it will still be magical. And it's one of those. Like, I use R Truth. I use Miss. I'll use those two as an example. And obviously, Sammy, the. The process of putting something together might be difficult. The process of getting together and the whole conversation and the pre production might be arduous. But man, in the moment. Gosh, that was magic. And Sammy. I will watch Sammy like a two seg, especially when I move to smackdown. He'll be in a two seg or a three seg match and I'll be watching him. And he is one of the few. Like, he almost reminds me of Barry Windham from back in the day. He's one of the few that if that crowd was a little subdued by.

[A]

Seg2, they'll be awake.

[B]

He's got him. And I'm like, dude, I don't do it the way he does it.

[A]

That was our job when we were Raw Tag Team Champions, man. Or when we were Tag Team Champions, we had a bit of a shit run. I remember before we won the titles, we kept saying, we just hope we can live up to the USO's. What the USO's did, and we didn't. But our role as Tag Team Champions at the time was closing out Raw, and it didn't matter. Raw's a long show.

[B]

Give them something.

[A]

3 hours.

[B]

Give him something.

[A]

Make sure they're awake by the end. And, dude, watch that bit. And we wrestle judgment day about 17 times. Yeah, we had them rocking every time. 95 of that credit for that goes to Sammy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's funny because you keep bringing up priests. No one hates that process.

[B]

Oh, my God. More than Damien Boring Water. He will.

[A]

Oh, my God. I'm sorry.

[B]

But here's the magic. You're in the match together.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So oil and water. And then you get out there and like.

[A]

Ah, yeah. And then we come back and they're like, it worked. I'm like, of course it worked.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm glad you brought up Miz, though, cuz. You know what, dude?

[B]

Never count him out, dude.

[A]

There's a guy. If there's one guy that doesn't get enough credit, yeah, it's him. Even me, I'll fully admit this, and I think I've told Mike before. I watched WWE from the outside looking in when I was an independent wrestler hoping to get to wwe.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I'd see Miz and go, how the is this Guy Main eventing WrestleMania? How the is this guy always in the top angles? How the. Dude, I know why. Once I worked once, I was like.

[B]

That'S why he's amazing.

[A]

We talked about making everything work. He is the epitome of that.

[B]

Amazing.

[A]

He'll say yes to anything. He'll make it work. He'll do it good. And he'll. Dude, he has amazing matches.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

He had a match with Gunther in Chicago.

[B]

I remember.

[A]

Miz, do you think. You look at Gunther and you look at Miss, they got him. Do you think those guys. Do you look at Gunther, you think, hey, I can't wait to see him wrestle. Miss is probably the bottom of the list. Sure, dude. They killed it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Killed it. And guess what? That's true with almost everyone. Miz can do that with anybody. It's funny because he does not get enough credit.

[B]

I had one of the rare bad matches with him, and it's completely my fault. But I will say this. I had a school one time. I had a kid, kind of not. He said something snide about Mike. And I thought, you know what? This is a good teaching moment. And I. I walked out after I was done. I was like, hey, just so you know, if you look at the amount of time and equity and ability and also, we're in a season right now where WWE is cool. Everybody loves wwe. W is great. There have been seasons where that's not the case.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And there was Mike, there was Miz. I mean, he's one of those. He reminds me. There's a couple others. I mentioned this to Natty Neidhart not long ago. She was talk about her book. You know, when Natty eventually goes in the hall of Fame, I'll probably stand up for three minutes clapping for her. When Miz goes in the hall of Fame, I'll stand up for. That's going to be very special because he's so unique and he's so. I gotcha. It's. There's. There's only one speed with him. You know what I'm saying? It's a special thing because they also.

[A]

Natty too. Same thing. They do it in a way that's not spectacular. It's not extravagant. They're just super solid all the time. They're super reliable all the time. Consistent all the time. So much so that you don't even notice it.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

You kind of take it for granted, but, man, like, I remember Mike putting on matches with Roman and Seth and Finn for the IC title every week on Raw for a period of time where you think, oh, Roman versus Seth. That's going to be a barn burner. Roman versus Finn, barn burner. Seth versus Finn, barn burner. Seth vs. Mike, Roman versus Miz. But why? Because he does it every time. You know why, dude? Because he doesn't go around telling everyone he's the best. And I'm not saying Roman and Seth do, which they kind of do. Finn definitely doesn't, but they can say it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Mike doesn't do that, dude. Mike does what he's asked to do all the time, as good as he can.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know what I mean? Natty's the same way, dude. Natty can go with anyone.

[B]

You use the word consistency.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

To me, I tell a lot of my students, I'm like, man, it's not just about hitting it that one night. It's about, can you hit it the next night? Because my dad, I remember he used to Tell people. He said, what are you doing? Main event WrestleMania. He joke with me, what are you doing the next night? And I thought, like, in the. Doesn't it. In main eventing WrestleMania? Not at all. In terms of this business, follow up's more important. Yeah, dude.

[A]

Consistency is. Consistency is actually sometimes plays against you.

[B]

Yeah, no, for sure.

[A]

Because if you're too consistent, then it becomes normal.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

People expect you to kill it. So when you do, it's barely noticed.

[B]

Special guy.

[A]

You know what I mean?

[B]

For sure. Well, the first thing I want to do is I meant to do it in kind of a more special way, but it's even better now because you're drinking and you don't drink that often. And that's the stun. And briskly walk.

[A]

Get a taxi home and don't drive.

[B]

Stun an Uber. Yes.

[A]

Buckle up, put your bl. Put your blinkers on. People signal you're going right, left. Just let the person behind you know.

[B]

God, that's great advice.

[A]

My son's just got his license. He's brand new driver. He's better than about 90 of the Florida drivers out there.

[B]

Not a great driver.

[A]

Waist up.

[B]

Not a great driving state.

[A]

What were you gonna say?

[B]

Yeah, well, no. Okay. The PSA on blinkers. We do like that.

[A]

I do believe that.

[B]

And I believe you too.

[A]

I did a. I drove away from Sammy during the WrestleMania buildup. Drove away angrily. He told me he loved me. I didn't care. I slammed the door and before I drove off, quickly buckled up and as I pulled out, put my blinker on. People noticed that. They said, he's angry, but still buckled up and put his blinker on. Cause that's what you do. You don't let emotions get the best of you. You stay safe.

[B]

I'll say this. They haven't used it for TV yet, and it's bumming me out. But I pitched that idea a long time ago of you because you were doing all your promos in your car.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I pitched this idea a while ago and I'm waiting for them to use it. Of you pulling into the arena side ramp, where we can clearly see you in one of your many beautiful vehicles. And you still do the promo on your phone.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then back away and leave. And then you back away safely. Clearly. And Lee, I still. Because I just love the idea of you sitting in a car. And you clearly could get out and go to the ring, but no, you're gonna do it how you do it.

[A]

I Also, in the WrestleMania build up, I wanted to do one of those in my car and have Randy just blow through me in a truck, Smash it. I was willing to let the Lamborghini go for it. You said no. Also, I broke my neck, so everything went wrong.

[B]

You wanna talk about that?

[A]

Yeah, sure. But what were you gonna say first?

[B]

Well, no, I actually. More than anything.

[A]

Okay, let's go.

[B]

It's yours to tell the world where you're at.

[A]

Yeah. I don't know, man. It's been such a frustrating process. We're kind of trying to let. We're letting my spinal cord heal as much as we can on its own.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Before we go in for the surgery, because the extent. How extensive the surgery will be depends on how my spinal cord looks when we go in there. So we waited. You know, the trauma happened in January. Well, probably. It was building up. Right. But January is what made it, you know, what really did it. Then we had this nice and easy ladder match where nothing crazy happened at all. And I kept going for a while. And then in the first week of April is when we had the mri, and they were like, oh, guess what? You can't even get hit. Don't even get hit, because you might die. So everything took a turn. And now it's been three months since then, since my last match. March 1st was my last match. So March, April, May. It's been four months almost. We're waiting till mid July to do the surgery. Hopefully it's a normal neck fusion. It might not be. We don't know. So since then, I felt fine. My neck's been fine. I'm not in pain. I have no. Really, any symptoms of what you would expect somebody with a spinal cord injury have.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

To have. But in the last week, we were texting about this two days ago, and you asked me for details and A classic Cody move. I didn't answer you. I left you hanging.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

In the last week, for some reason, the symptoms all came in one shot. Every symptom. You'd expect me to have the pain in the neck, the stuff going down, the arms, the legs, not really responding. It's all been happening. So it's been pretty brutal. I'm really. I can't wait for the surgery and then to move forward, whatever that looks like.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But it's been very frustrating because I felt great. So we had two incidents where basically in the ring, my legs kind of fell asleep, and I was like, there's something wrong.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We thought it was one thing, which is why we didn't go right away for the Neck. Because it wasn't consistent with a neck injury.

[B]

Yeah. I remember you telling me about your legs.

[A]

Looked at everything else, and we figured out it's not that. Let's go. Let's take a look at the neck. And then it was that. But besides those two instances where my legs kind of fell asleep in the ring, I felt great.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I'd have doctors call me, and I've been very fortunate to have Randy tj, You know, and wwe, you know, Jeffrey Dugas put me in touch with all the best spine surgeons. They have. They're great. I've spoken to all these different surgeons. They gave me their opinions and what they would do.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

All in the hopes that I can get back in the ring and be safe. So I have all these opinions, but all of them were like, so you don't have any symptoms? I'm like, no, except for that time my legs fell asleep. I'm fine now. They came back. No pain, nothing. No discomfort. I'm great.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The last week, everything hit. So now it's like a different story. I'm like, now I can't wait to get the surgery. Not just because I want to get back in the ring, just because I want to not be in pain.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So, yeah, this is helping. This is great, though. This might be the key.

[B]

It can get you through the rehab.

[A]

I feel great right now.

[B]

Get you back in the ring.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'll mention this because when we wrestle at the Royal Rumble and we did the ladder match we had talked about, you had said, like, my legs, I just. It was always a kind of like a unique symptom. My legs just feel like they're, like, dragging under me. And then I remember I felt like I got a sense that it might have been more serious because of mutual friend Kathy Kelly.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I remember after that match, I came back and I was looking for you, and I wanted to make sure you were okay. And I remember I wanted to update her, too. I just felt like I needed to update her. And the way she looked at me was like. My mom used to look at me the way she looked at me. She was like, yeah, we need to make sure he's okay. And the way she said it, I thought, got it. Yeah. Like, I'm with you. I'm with you. But it was. She values that relationship so much here.

[A]

Friendship.

[B]

I was all like, got it. Well, we're gonna find out. You know, like, yeah, she's a good friend.

[A]

But also, we went through something pretty traumatic together.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

In that it sounds silly. When we talk about the cart flipping and Saudi. Flipping and Saudi in the middle of the desert, in the middle of the night, it seems mundane, right? Oh, you flipped around in a golf cart.

[B]

You don't.

[A]

It was wild, man.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And as we were flipping, what I.

[B]

Was mad at you.

[A]

The first thing that went to my head is me and Jamie Noble. By the way, if you want to take a tumble in the desert in a golf cart with people, Jamie Noble, Kathy Kelly, best people, you can do it with entertainment value. And also, if this is the last moment we have, these are pretty good crew to go out with. But Jamie and I sit in the back. The guy, the driver tells us, okay, you know, put your seat belts on. If we start flipping, if we start rolling, it probably won't happen. But if we start rolling, just make sure you keep your arms in, okay? After he gave us the safety briefing, Kathy jumps in, doesn't get the safety briefing, but whatever, she buckles up, she's in the front. We start going, yeah, we're not gonna roll. Why would we roll? Going through the dunes. Great time, amazing time. And then as we go up a dune, I see the buggy in front of us almost go. And in my head I go, oh, we're gonna go. And as we start going in my head, I go, Kathy doesn't know to keep her hands in, so I just reached around and grabbed her arms. And as we're rolling, I'm holding on to her. So I think that's why she was so concerned about the royal rumble, is because I didn't save her life. I didn't save her arms, but I tried to make sure she was safe. And then both of us experienced this incredible thing, which is we're upside down in the golf cart, we're sand pouring down our face, our ears, everything. And all we hear is Jimmy Noble going, my ribs, my ribs. Ah, my ribs. My. I'm okay.

[B]

I love how you've described a near death experience with CK and Jamie Noble.

[A]

And then I'm the last one in the golf cart, by the way. They pull Jamie out, they pull her out. I'm literally just sands pouring on my face. I'm stuck in the seatbelt. And guess whose voice I hear.

[B]

Who?

[A]

Take one guess.

[B]

I would not even.

[A]

Is he okay? Hey, Kevin, are you in there? Is Kevin in there? Sami Zayn trying to tell people, where's Kevin? I'm like, I'm in here. Where do you think I am? He's like, hey, dude, you gotta get out. I'm like, I'm upside down, and he's, like, telling people how to move. You know what I mean? It's terrible. Oh, man.

[B]

Oh, man.

[A]

But then the first face I see as I stand up, Sammy saying, dude, are you okay?

[B]

I have so many fun Sammy stories.

[A]

Who doesn't?

[B]

He's a special soul.

[A]

He is. Yeah.

[B]

During that period of time, we worked, we wrestled. We were so fortunate that we got to bring back the winged eagle.

[A]

Yeah, dude.

[B]

And we got to really bring it back.

[A]

Oh, my God. As soon as you brought it back, my first thought was, how do I attach myself to this when it has nothing to do with me?

[B]

That's perfect, because I'm gonna try to steal it.

[A]

And that's what happened.

[B]

You did.

[A]

So you got the best. We got the best of it, world. So you got to bring it back. Yeah, I got to steal it. Be on TV a bunch with it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Then you got to take it back. But I was really hoping you'd get to keep it. We talked about this.

[B]

Well, so I did.

[A]

No, but I meant on tv. I was hoping, moving forward, that would be it for you. That's the one you get to carry.

[B]

I think there's some reasons maybe, and not just the company reasons. These are some reasons from Aesthetic Point. I didn't get to keep it, but I did keep. Yeah, you have the actual title, and. And I would love to give it to you.

[A]

No, we've talked about this.

[B]

Well, too bad, buddy, because it's right there in that box.

[A]

I'm not taking it.

[B]

It's right there.

[A]

I'm not taking it. I was just talking to Ben about me. I asked Ben to give it to me so I could frame it for you, so. And he never did.

[B]

And now, obviously, I asked about framing it for you, and you know me rather behind when it comes to anything, especially answering text, but, yeah, no, I wanted you to have it. That's ours.

[A]

I can't take it.

[B]

Well, you are taking it, and I'm gonna sign it. Do we have a Penske? But this is one.

[A]

I'll take it because you're signing it.

[B]

That was.

[A]

That's the only reason.

[B]

That was always the plan.

[A]

All right.

[B]

Is we'll sign it and then in case. Yeah, but that's our one. Yeah.

[A]

Thanks, man.

[B]

I had it on the bus.

[A]

I know you did.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because I kept asking Ben, how do we get it?

[B]

He had it on the bus. Yeah.

[A]

Well, that means a lot, dude. And I'll definitely find a way to leave it on the bus another time when you won't notice.

[B]

We're gonna double sign it. And because you were the guy who got to. There it is.

[A]

You know what the sweetest part of it was? Is doing the thing with Sean at Saturday night's main event.

[B]

Oh, my gosh.

[A]

With it?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Dude, that was so cool. I was. Dude.

[B]

Also, it wasn't forced. Hey, we're gonna bring it back for Saturday night's main event. Yeah, Great. That's cool. Oh, you know what? Let's. He took it. Let's keep it going.

[A]

Oh, well, to you, it wasn't forced because you were only part of one tiny bit of it.

[B]

I feel you had a triple H.

[A]

Would probably tell you it was forced because I kept telling. Can I steal it? Please can I steal it? Let's do a ladder match. If I steal it, we could have two titles. Then we could do a ladder match. Can I steal it? I know. I think this title for you is special. The same reason it is for me is because when I. Well, maybe not actually, because you grew up watching your dad wrestling all kinds of different promotions with all kinds of different world titles. When I started watching wrestling, this was the ultimate title. It's a title that Brett and Sean and all those guys were trying to get, you know, until it changed over. Steve won it, and then they switched it. Yeah, but to me, that's the title that I dreamed of winning when I was younger. Actually, funny enough, the title I originally dreamed of winning and that I would win in my bedroom against my pillows and teddy bears all the time, was the original intercon. Well, not original, but the intercontinental title with the white strap, which I ended up being able to hold because someone brought it back. Remember who that person was?

[B]

I did.

[A]

It was you, of course. So of course you'd bring that one back.

[B]

Well, this one's yours, but, yeah, that's for you.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

There you go. I kept the inscription pretty simple.

[A]

I love you, too, buddy. That's amazing. It'll be available on ebay very soon.

[B]

What's so funny is that that's the. You know, the winged eagle and which.

[A]

By the way, every eagle has wings.

[B]

Well, this one's a wing. Yeah. This one's a winged eagle. You grew up. I liked it for a different reason than you liked it. But I know one of the big connections you have to. It is Bret Hart, who is your friend. So how's that like growing up loving someone? The hitman. Well, the excellence of execution. And now this person is in your life and your friend and luminary figure that you have.

[A]

Well, I don't want to overstate. One thing that's very important for me is not overstating relationships.

[B]

Well, you shouldn't on this show, because we like to exaggerate.

[A]

We're friendly. I'll text Brett. He'll text me back. We have a great relationship.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I can't say he's my friend. I wish I could.

[B]

Workplace proximity, more than that.

[A]

But if. Because that's somebody I admire greatly, and I know if I ever needed advice, I could go to him and he would gladly give it to me. If he ever said, we're friends, then I'd be like, brad Hart's my friend. My friend. But I. I don't feel comfortable saying he's my friend until he says it.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

See what I mean?

[B]

Out of respect. Totally.

[A]

But growing up, ironically enough, I was not a Bret Hart fan at all.

[B]

Oh, no.

[A]

But there's a great reason I was an Owen Hart fan.

[B]

Oh, okay. I thought you were gonna go Sean.

[A]

No. Well, I was a Sean guy, but you were. No. It all started at WrestleMania 11. First tape my dad rented, which made me want to be a wrestler. And at the end of that tape, I saw Sean. Or right before the end, which was.

[B]

By the way, lt. Bam. Bam.

[A]

They should have been main event, but whatever. Lawrence Taylor wrestle.

[B]

Who gives a. I stand.

[A]

Bam. Bam. Got his main event, though, which he deserves.

[B]

I do stand apart. I like lt. Bam. Bam.

[A]

I. The match was fine. Bam. Bam. Deserved to be the main event. But to me, what blew my mind, what changed my life, was Shawn Michaels.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Smallest guy on the show. Best guy on the show at the time. I was tiny, scrawny kid. Like, if he can do it, I can do it, too. But then. And then I start backtracking, going, renting tapes from the year before. So then I watched Royal Rumble from that year, which has Bret Hart versus Diesel for the WWE Championship. And Brett, at one point, tries to tie up Diesel's legs with the camera wires. I was upset. He's cheating.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

How can this guy cheat?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Then Owen jumps in and attacks his older brother. I have an older brother?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

10 years older. Used to beat the shit out of me, which is fine. I love him. But we let bygones be bygones. But at the time, I don't like my older brother. Beats the shit out of me. Bret Hart's the older brother. Owen's trying to keep him from cheating. Owen Hart's my guy. So you see what I mean, Automatically, Shawn Michaels fan, Owen Hart fan. Can't really be a Bret Hart guy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I knew he was a great wrestler. I knew he was a talented wrestler. And then years later, obviously, unless Bret Hart's a great guy, I met him. So now I'd like to say he's my friend. But growing up Canadian, you'd think, was I a huge Bret Carr guy? Not necessarily.

[B]

So that's crazy to me. I thought you would be. Because I was a Sean guy. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah, I was a Sean guy. I was a stone cold guy. That's another thing. Stone cold fan.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

More than anything, I was a ringmaster fan. You know, few people can say that.

[B]

I actually can join you in that because I knew of Steve right before the show.

[A]

I didn't because I hated wcw.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I could not stand wcw. Wouldn't watch it. Refused to acknowledge it. Yeah. Yeah. It's so funny how life works out, eh?

[B]

It is.

[A]

Yeah. And now I have this because you brought it back.

[B]

Yeah. The Wayne deal.

[A]

And you brought back the Intercontinental title, which I also got to hold.

[B]

This segment is brought to you by Fanatics. What is your Mount Rushmore of sports jerseys, including WWE gear that means the most to you? So here's the thing we often will ask is give us your Mount Rushmore of fanatics. Like your fanatics Mount Rushmore. And that can be jerseys, you know, in terms of hockey, baseball, football, whatever it may be. Or it can be wrestling gear. Your Mount Rushmore of we've had people say, Austin316, that classic shirt, the NWO classic shirt, things like that. Your Mount Rushmore.

[A]

If we're going with just WWE wrestlers or wrestlers in general, but WWE wrestlers who I'd like a autographed jersey of. You know what I mean?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'd go with Stone Cold Shawn Michaels.

[B]

There he is.

[A]

I'm gonna go with four. Same thing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Stone Cold Shawn Michaels, Randy Orton and Becky Lynch.

[B]

Oh, that's a great crew.

[A]

As great as 4?

[B]

I was gonna say, is there any version of your fanatics Mount Rushmore in terms of jerseys, like a hockey jersey that you'd put on your Mount Rushmore, your big four?

[A]

So I'm not a big sports guy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I did follow hockey when I was a kid. Then wrestling happened. I couldn't care less about any other sports. I got back into hockey recently. Got season tickets to the Habs, got season tickets to the Lightning.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I've been watching.

[B]

I love that you're a Tampa guy now.

[A]

So as far as hockey goes, because it's really the only sport I know enough about when I was a kid, I loved Mario Lemieux and Patrick Roy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So it'd be one of those two. Can't really pick which one.

[B]

That's great.

[A]

But.

[B]

Yeah, well, you get. Let's say those two. Yeah.

[A]

There you go.

[B]

For our viewers and listeners, whoever's on your Mount Rushmore, you can get all your favorite jerseys and fan clothing from fanatics. Go to fanatics.com or download the app today. I mean, we can keep all this in, but basically, here's the story. We have to keep it during Stardust, you know, like, I needed a little bit of a mental edge on how bad I was being treated, even though maybe it wasn't that bad. But I kicked Kevin with a disaster kick, and he kicked out before I even cut. Like, as I covered his chest, he kicked out right away. And that was during the NXT Sami Zayn era. If you're not here to earn a spot, you're here to take a spot. And I. So I hated all of them with a passion. But the truth of the story is it wasn't Sammy. It wasn't Kevin. It was Jon Moxley who did it. And Jon Moxley is awesome. So I'm not. No, that's the story.

[A]

Also, remember we talked about Big show earlier?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Funny enough, wasn't Big show kind of the reason why you. He was. Wasn't wrestling him in his hometown as Stardust? The kind of the straw that broke the camel.

[B]

It's one of the straws that broke the. Yeah, there's a couple of them. There's a moment where I remember Charlotte asked me, can I meet one of her? Like, she had brought a little kid to the show. Can I meet this kid? I said, yeah. And she goes, hey, he Stardust. And I could see the kid was like, who is this? And I remember thinking, like, oh, no. Not only does he really not know Stardust, he doesn't know what I was doing prior. Gotta go. That was one of. There was a bazillion reasons. Road Dog. Road Dogg and I have a great relationship. So to this day, it's one of my favorite stories. But when I went to him asking, what's the finish on me and Zack Ryder for the 11th time on Main Event? And he goes, hey, man, does it really matter? I remember thinking, yep, got it. And I remember I told Cardona after I said, you up, Rough Rider? And walked out the door and I didn't come back. I'm here with Kevin Owens, my guest. Of course. I like to think of myself and Wheatley Bodk as the American Dream Team. I always ask people, what is your American Dream Team?

[A]

What are we doing?

[B]

So here's. I'll go ahead and give it to you. Some people say, this is my team of people. I'm preparing for the zombie apocalypse with other people. From a wrestling perspective, I say, hey, who's your war games team? So that you don't have. We've had everything. We've had like 100 people. We've had four. Who's your team?

[A]

I need more boundaries. Give me at least a number more qualifiers.

[B]

I'm on a four people to go along with you. You're going into it. Who's he going to be?

[A]

Man, it's very hard to pick. Just even with this boundary. It's almost impossible to pick four. I know.

[B]

That's why it's.

[A]

I'm just going to go with WWE Wrestlers who I pick for Survivor Series.

[B]

And I'll go ahead and qualify for you. Kevin's answer might change over time. Well, but here are four guys you'd go into it with today.

[A]

The only reason it wouldn't change is because now I'm also going to use that as a cop out because it's a Survivor Series team and we don't do mixed match, mixed gender matches. That automatically eliminates Becky. And ladies.

[B]

No ladies.

[A]

So they can't be in it. But you guys will totally be in it.

[B]

No ladies.

[A]

So Survivor Series, current WWE talent. You, Randy, Sammy, Finn.

[B]

Easy, dude. We'd smoke the field.

[A]

That's right. And ringside. As our manager making his debut, Michael Kirstenbaum. Wow. We spoke the field, Randy.

[B]

All 800 pounds of.

[A]

Doesn't matter who else is there. It does not matter who else is there.

[B]

Oh, I love that.

[A]

That's right. Okay.

[B]

This is. I don't know if you've watched the show before.

[A]

Is this gonna be at the end of our episode? It is, because I'm about to crack this Cody Rhodes bottle open.

[B]

Dude, go.

[A]

I don't know if I was allowed to, but it's happening.

[B]

I feel like. Oh, man. I feel like you're allowed to do anything here on this pod.

[A]

I know. I have a flight. Exactly. I'm not flying the plane.

[B]

Talent relations.

[A]

And they're driving me there. It's incredible.

[B]

Oh, here is a. Sorry. It's a jingle that. We got it. You got it. All right, so here's.

[A]

Cody will pay for whatever, bro.

[B]

I don't think broke. Here's a jingle brought to you by our friends at Wheatley American Vodka. Want you to Watch it. And I'll ask. I'll ask you to replace it.

[A]

I should not be a bartender.

[B]

Replace a word at the end. Wheatley so good, I drink it.

[A]

This song right here is for the red, white and blue.

[B]

You got good taste. And you drink like it too. Wheatley is so good I drink it neatly.

[A]

Wheatley American vodka.

[B]

All right. So Wheatley vodka.

[A]

Very catchy.

[B]

It is, right? These are good folks here, by the way.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Wheatley so good I drink it neatly. So if you could replace the word neatly, what do you replace it with? Wheatley so good. I drink it naked. Well, you that for sure. Naked.

[A]

I don't drink anything naked. I'm never naked. Why would I do that to people? But I drink.

[B]

You're actually not the first person to say naked.

[A]

Don't tell me Priest said it.

[B]

Nope. My wife said, okay, that's fine.

[A]

I'll agree if I can. I don't mind Brandy. If Priest had said it, we'd change my answer.

[B]

What's your best friend?

[A]

I know that we can't. We're so connected. We would have said the same thing, man.

[B]

Thanks.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

My gosh. Thank you.

[A]

Thank you. This is incredible.

[B]

Thank you. Please keep it. I meant to frame it for you. It sat under the coats on my bus. Ladies and gentlemen, our guest and my friend, Kevin Owens. Thank you, buddy. Thank you so much.

[A]

That was so much fun. I'm definitely gonna miss my flight. With new McValue at McDonald's, you get more than you expect for breakfast. Like buy a sausage burrito and add a sausage McMuffin for a dollar. Get more than you expect with new MCvalue at McDonald's. Prices and participation may vary. Ballot for item of equal or lesser value.