Matt Cardona

Summary

What Do You Wanna Talk About? with Cody Rhodes

Episode: Matt Cardona – WWE x Fanatics
Date: March 25, 2026

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Episode Overview

Cody Rhodes welcomes the newly returned Matt Cardona aboard the podcast for a candid, lively, and often hilarious deep dive into Cardona’s journey inside and outside WWE. Amid stories both fresh and classic, they discuss the struggle of reinvention, the lessons learned on the indies, the evolving wrestling business, and what makes a true star today. Alongside wrestling philosophy and career goals, you’ll also find plenty of laughter about theme parks, Star Wars, and the little details that only come from real friendship.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Return of Matt Cardona: A New Blueprint

• Cardona’s WWE return is celebrated, following his years of forging an explosive path on the independent scene and “creating an entirely new blueprint.”
• Cody highlights Matt's transformation:

  "Zack Ryder needed to die for Matt Cardona to live."
  (Matt Cardona, 07:57)

2. Reinvention and Self-Promotion on the Indies

• Matt describes his initial shock at indie conditions ("couldn’t believe you can't get a case of water" – 04:33), the mindset of presenting himself as a star, and high production values (entrances in Ghostbusters cars, ring gear, social media promos).
• Both men relate this to Drew McIntyre’s approach, but Cody emphasizes:

  "I think you made it a very, very much a different blueprint."
  (Cody, 21:19)

• Matt’s “Death Match King” persona was a calculated move to be the WWE guy everyone loved to hate on the indies.
• Investment in one’s own presentation, even at a personal cost, is underscored by Cody and Matt.

3. Defining Moments: The GCW Death Match

• Matt's infamous death match with Nick Gage is explored in depth—nerves, blood, and the power of story.
• He confesses his surprise at how much it changed his career:

  "In the moment, I knew this is going to change my career."
  (Matt, 26:13)

• Cody presses the importance of story over spectacle:

  "If there's not a story, then it's just indulgence."
  (Cody, 25:42)

4. Advice for Young Wrestlers & The Importance of Connection

• Cody and Matt debate what makes a star today: not just moves, but connecting with the audience.
• Matt's advice for aspiring wrestlers:

  "Don't quit. You might make it if you don't quit. You definitely won't make it if you do."
  (Matt, 34:23)

• Promos and authentic interaction are lauded as the "ticket to a career."

5. The Modern WWE Locker Room, Hustle, and Effort

• Both explore changes in the WWE culture, hustle, and self-presentation, expressing amusement at generational differences (“I’m not going to wear sweatpants on a run-in…” – Cody, 36:47).
• Matt’s pride in earning every moment:

  "Now that I'm here, I'm going to do whatever I can. And if I'm not...I'm still going to show up like I'm in the main event."
  (Matt, 37:27)

6. Mentorship, Influence, and the Indie Landscape

• Matt names Ben Bishop and Richard Holiday as indie standouts for their hustle and social media effort (31:37).
• The challenge of reinvention, staying relevant, and enjoying the direct hustle of meet and greets and selling merch.

7. Personal Life: Relationship with Chelsea Green & Friendship with Cody

• Stories about meeting Chelsea (with credit to Cody & Brandi), their wedding, and balancing life with three dogs, three cats, and a busy wrestling schedule (58:10).
• Matt and Cody’s evolving friendship, former rivalry, and how theme parks helped them bond (63:22).

8. Philosophy & Motivation: The Pursuit of Excellence

• The pair examine the challenge of always “being on”—from branding to gym life, to fan interactions.
• Cody notes:

  "It's not strange to pursue excellence."
  (Cody, 40:56)

• Both agree that now these habits aren’t performative but fundamental to identity.

9. Legacy, Career Milestones, and Family

• Matt’s highest WWE moment: winning the Intercontinental Title at WrestleMania and sharing it with his dad (69:47).
• On life's ups & downs:

  "If you ever did it, don't count that person out."
  (Cody, 70:41)

• Cardona’s pursuit of the WWE Championship remains his chief goal:

  "I'd be lying if I said I didn't want to be the WWE Champ...that's the goal ever since I was a little kid."
  (Matt, 15:04)

10. Fun & Game: Drinks, Air Basketball, and Pop Culture

• Their shared theme park adventures, Star Wars rankings (Matt’s #1 is A New Hope, #2 is Force Awakens), and playful rivalry over who buys drinks.
• Matt’s legendary collecting hobby, from action figures to his hunt for the Greg Valentine grail (72:22).

11. Dream Team & Closing Sentiments

• Matt’s dream team: Chelsea, Cody, Brian Myers, Ziggler (Nick Nemeth), The Miz, and Kit Wilson (82:23).
• Affirmation of their real-life friendship and mutual support.
• Cody:

  "I hope that happens. A World Championship...and I hope to hold you to it."
  (Cody, 80:52)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Zack Ryder needed to die for Matt Cardona to live.”
  — Matt Cardona, 07:57

• “Don't quit. Of course, you might make it if you don't quit. You definitely won't make it if you do.”
  — Matt Cardona, 34:23

• “It’s not strange to pursue excellence.”
  — Cody Rhodes, 40:56

• “If you ever did it, don’t count that person out.”
  — Cody Rhodes, 70:41

• On Death Match wrestling and audience buzz:

  “People, whether they bought or just wanted to see it…that night, it trended #1, over the Olympics.”
  — Matt Cardona, 23:57

• Matt Cardona on being back in WWE:

  “It feels like, well, I’m supposed to be here. I hate to use the word ‘deserve…’ I think I’ve earned an opportunity to be back here. This is the ultimate opportunity."
  (Matt, 61:09)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Intro/Setting – [01:39]
• Cardona’s Indie Persona/Blueprint – [03:36]
• Cody Lie/Mythbuster Game – [05:03]
• The Death of Zack Ryder – [07:57]
• Fantasy WWE 2K Match & 2K News – [09:03]
• How Cardona Got Back to WWE – [13:38]
• Cardona’s Dreams & Goals – [14:57]
• Leaving WWE: No Plan, New Hustle – [19:00]
• The Nick Gage Death Match Story – [22:31 to 26:18]
• Connecting with Fans & Indie Advice – [27:25 to 30:29]
• Who’s Crushing It on the Indies? – [31:20]
• Locker Room & Modern WWE Culture – [35:19]
• Philosophy on Star Power & Effort – [38:45]
• Wedding, Chelsea Green, and Life Outside the Ring – [49:56 onward]
• Wrestling Moves, Bumps, and Producers – [46:51 to 49:37]
• Collecting & Action Figures Segment – [72:04]
• Dream Team & Show Close – [80:32 onward]

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Final Thoughts

This episode showcases the chemistry between Cody and Matt, blending genuine admiration with brotherly jabs. Cardona’s path is painted as both blueprint and cautionary tale: equal parts hustle, heartbreak, and stubborn self-belief. The conversation delivers valuable insights for fans and wrestlers alike—about success, reinvention, and the ever-shifting map of the wrestling industry.

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For anyone curious about the realities of WWE life, lessons from the indie grind, or what true wrestling brotherhood sounds like, this episode is a must-listen.

Transcript

[Cody Rhodes]

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[Matt Cardona]

to splurge at certain moments?

[Cody Rhodes]

Jet setting off to see your team

[Matt Cardona]

play at one of the most iconic

[Cody Rhodes]

stadiums or getting your favorite player's super

[Matt Cardona]

rare autographed one of one sports card.

[Cody Rhodes]

So use Empower to help you get

[Matt Cardona]

good at money so you can be a little bad.

[Cody Rhodes]

Join their 19 million customers [e-mail] not an Empower client, paid or sponsored.

[Matt Cardona]

When you manage procurement for multiple facilities, every order matters. But when it's for a hospital system,

[Cody Rhodes]

they matter even more.

[Matt Cardona]

Grainger gets it and knows there's no time for managing multiple suppliers and no room for shipping delays. That's why Grainger offers millions of products in fast, dependable delivery so you can keep your facility stocked, safe and running smoothly. Call 1-800-GRAINGER Click grainger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done. Rate it.

[Cody Rhodes]

T for T. My career has been a fight.

[Matt Cardona]

A long, brutal but necessary fight. I was told no more times than I can count. Every single time. I proved them wrong. Wwwe 2k26 available now.

[Cody Rhodes]

Hello everybody. Welcome to what do you want to talk about? This is the American Nightmare, Cody Rhodes. And this is a fanatics and WWE original production. Very special day. We are on the grounds the Buffalo Trace distillery. And I have, I have a great guest. I have one of my five, as I actually said, in this very room. Somebody that I feel confident, I don't know if he feels the same in calling him my actual, actual friend. Somebody who recently returned to wwe. Somebody who also went away from WWE and set the path ablaze, took whatever blueprint there was, created an entirely new blueprint. I am of course talking about Long island ic. But not just that. But not just that. The Death Match King. The very complete and recently returned to wwe. I mean he's a former everything champion. He'll tell you all about that himself. Ladies and gentlemen, I am so excited to present to you Matt Cardona.

[Matt Cardona]

Oh yeah. Thank you, Cody. Thanks for having me. Finally. About time. I could have used the rub when I was on the Indies.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah. No, no, I mean I came. Well, when you were on the path. When you were on the Indies, I came and did your podcast one time. Correct.

[Matt Cardona]

Well, you're not. You did it like via satellite. Remote. Remote.

[Cody Rhodes]

You're here in person, which is really the only way to do it.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah. I've been on your podcast before, but it was you and KO Burying me.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah, we'll talk about that. We should talk about that. You. You have Louis Vuitton shoes on, huh?

[Matt Cardona]

I do, yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

You are incredibly well dressed.

[Matt Cardona]

Well, I didn't want to, you know.

[Cody Rhodes]

No, I mean, but this is. This is a. Look here.

[Matt Cardona]

You have the whole. The whole thing. You have the logo on the. The cuff, you know, as you see. Right, Yeah, I see. Show the camera.

[Cody Rhodes]

In terms of. There it is. In terms of. In terms of this fit.

[Matt Cardona]

I.

[Cody Rhodes]

You've followed this model basically since you left. I mean, following the journey when you were out there and seeing everything you did. Is this the new. In terms of the complete Matt Cardona?

[Matt Cardona]

No, I think if I'm. If I'm backstage like on smackdown, I'm. I'm not in the suit. But like you. You gotta carry yourself like a star. Right? Especially on the Indies. It's. You wear. You wear a suit in the Indies. Oh, my God. It's like you're the president.

[Cody Rhodes]

That's somebody. Yeah, but that's helpful.

[Matt Cardona]

It is that.

[Cody Rhodes]

That guy or that girl has some information. They. They know what's going on. They're here for a reason. Oh, I bet you that's what the line is for.

[Matt Cardona]

Right?

[Cody Rhodes]

You also big proponent. I recently found this out in bringing water. Water to the locker room, correct?

[Matt Cardona]

No, no, no. I want there to be water.

[Cody Rhodes]

Water needs to be there.

[Matt Cardona]

I'm not saying I'm the one bringing it, but now in wwe, I mean, there's water bottles everywhere. The trainer, the locker room, catering by gorilla. It's unbelievable. But you.

[Cody Rhodes]

You were shocked to find on the indie scene, not every locker room.

[Matt Cardona]

I just couldn't believe you can't get a case of water.

[Cody Rhodes]

Was it 4.99 and it truthfully became your part of your arrangement with independent promoters.

[Matt Cardona]

It was never official.

[Cody Rhodes]

That's not real.

[Matt Cardona]

It was never official. I didn't need water.

[Cody Rhodes]

Okay, well, then I don't want to fall into the category of, you know. So glad you set it up. There is a lot of concern on what's a Cody lie, what's myth, what's legend, what's reality? And I didn't want you to feel uncomfortable coming on the podcast, so I have a list of top.

[Matt Cardona]

Here we go.

[Cody Rhodes]

And I want you to just read them. Yeah, let me get my glasses real quick. I want you to read them aloud.

[Matt Cardona]

Are Those real? Do you need to be wearing those? Are they for the look?

[Cody Rhodes]

Well, I need to look at the paper. Here, read these aloud. And if you don't like any of these or don't want to talk about any of them, we don't have to. But yeah, perfect. If you just read those aloud.

[Matt Cardona]

Locker room checker.

[Cody Rhodes]

Okay.

[Matt Cardona]

Not true.

[Cody Rhodes]

Cody, lie.

[Matt Cardona]

Cody, lie.

[Cody Rhodes]

Okay, understood. We won't touch that one.

[Matt Cardona]

Went through my gear without permission. Are we telling this story? I mean, we told the story a million times.

[Cody Rhodes]

No, but that is not a Cody Live. Correct. Do any. Just read the topics and if any

[Matt Cardona]

of them sticks out, there's some context. I did go through your bag. There was permission.

[Cody Rhodes]

Okay.

[Matt Cardona]

Okay. Crumbs make crumb cake. That's a famous.

[Cody Rhodes]

Your statement. You taught me that.

[Matt Cardona]

I quit WWE because of you.

[Cody Rhodes]

I quit.

[Matt Cardona]

Oh, you. Because you had to lose to me. That is true. I didn't quit.

[Cody Rhodes]

I was out.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah, you quit. I was fired. I was working my ass. I got fired. You quit. Boo. Boo. God. Never missed a Wrestlemania. Boo hoo. Okay, the shipping costs on your lightsaber. Okay, that's true. You paid for the shipping cost.

[Cody Rhodes]

And at the time I'm just an indie guy, right? Or was I still with wwe?

[Matt Cardona]

With the company.

[Cody Rhodes]

Bam. But that was. I mean, to be fair, I thought me with that bill for your Kylo Ren lightsaber.

[Matt Cardona]

Do you still have it?

[Cody Rhodes]

I have mine.

[Matt Cardona]

Do you have mine?

[Cody Rhodes]

Hell yeah.

[Matt Cardona]

Not buying drinks even though you're rich.

[Cody Rhodes]

So when we go out often, I've noticed the wallet doesn't come out.

[Matt Cardona]

Oh, that's a.

[Cody Rhodes]

Okay. All right.

[Matt Cardona]

Can we curse it on that? Sorry.

[Cody Rhodes]

It's quite all right. We'll file that away as a Cody.

[Matt Cardona]

That's a lie.

[Cody Rhodes]

Okay.

[Matt Cardona]

Running practice.

[Cody Rhodes]

Where did I catch you the other week at tv. Running on the slick black floor because

[Matt Cardona]

it's very slippery and you didn't want to fall. I don't want to fall. Always ready.

[Cody Rhodes]

But you did it in a not so subtle way. You were literally starting at gorilla.

[Matt Cardona]

And you can't half asset.

[Cody Rhodes]

I get it.

[Matt Cardona]

Can't be half pregnant.

[Cody Rhodes]

But this is at 4 o' clock in the afternoon.

[Matt Cardona]

Well, that's what rehearsal should be. Understood. Rehearse.

[Cody Rhodes]

Practice makes perfect.

[Matt Cardona]

That's right.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yes.

[Matt Cardona]

Oh, Lord. That's. That's Brandy. That's her saying.

[Cody Rhodes]

I know, but you also. You know what? I won't even touch that one.

[Matt Cardona]

Okay. It's your show. Cody. What's on page number two?

[Cody Rhodes]

I. These. These are my notes. These are. These. We're very professional here we have. We have our notes.

[Matt Cardona]

You're always ready.

[Cody Rhodes]

I'll have these. You are always ready. So what are you drinking?

[Matt Cardona]

I'm drinking the Long island loudmouth had some Wheatley vodka, some other things. Love that. A little lower third, right? What are you drinking there?

[Cody Rhodes]

This is a water. Wheatley American. It's not. It's. It is that water.

[Matt Cardona]

Smell it.

[Cody Rhodes]

Get in there. Get in there. Do you want to smell it?

[Matt Cardona]

No, I trust you.

[Cody Rhodes]

No, I got you. Cheers to you.

[Matt Cardona]

This is very good.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah. And you're right. By, I mean the.

[Matt Cardona]

Well, spring got like a.

[Cody Rhodes]

A long island, I would imagine. The Long Island Loudmouth is a long island iced tea, but with Wheatley vodka.

[Matt Cardona]

Long island ice Z.

[Cody Rhodes]

There it is.

[Matt Cardona]

Rest in peace, though. He's. He's gone.

[Cody Rhodes]

That's it, right?

[Matt Cardona]

Zack Ryder needed to die for Matt Cardona to live.

[Cody Rhodes]

Very, very. Wow. Wow.

[Matt Cardona]

I've said a bunch of times, though,

[Cody Rhodes]

I actually really like it. You're by the. You're by the wellspring of the good stuff too, because you're here at the Buffalo Trace distillery. Wheatley American body providing. This isn't it.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah, I like it.

[Cody Rhodes]

It's a good vibe here.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

I actually. A couple little touches for you here. I don't know if you see that. I can't say it out loud. But you know what that is, right?

[Matt Cardona]

I do. I do. Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

And then the Hulk ski for you as well.

[Matt Cardona]

Very cool.

[Cody Rhodes]

So I. I know that's a roller coaster.

[Matt Cardona]

Like Hulk, like roller coaster islands. Like, not my thing.

[Cody Rhodes]

That's a lie. That's a lie. Once you came to hhn with me, you were. You were.

[Matt Cardona]

I'm not a roller coaster. High. I need some theming. I don't want to like roller coaster high five. Dude, that's a cool coaster, bro.

[Cody Rhodes]

What did you used to say? I don't want to see the parking lot. That was your big thing, man. That breaks you that easily?

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah. I don't want to. You know, the immersion.

[Cody Rhodes]

You need the immersion because you're in a world filled with immersion. Is that it? That's my reasoning for it. If I do all this to escape, I want to escape.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah. If I'm there, I want to be there. You know?

[Cody Rhodes]

A new segment we do our friends at WWE 2K right now. If you could. I guess.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

Fantasy book.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yourself. In any dream match, you've got 400 something roster members. You've got men can wrestle women. Now three stages of hell has been added to the game. It's the best it's ever been. Obviously you just came back.

[Matt Cardona]

Not in the game.

[Cody Rhodes]

Well, you just came back. So give us. Give us your match. Without you, I suppose. In terms of what. What would you do with.

[Matt Cardona]

Well, maybe we can create a player. They still have that?

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah, we can create me.

[Matt Cardona]

Maybe I'm downloadable eventually. Let's be positive.

[Cody Rhodes]

Sure. Right.

[Matt Cardona]

What about. Is Brandy in the game?

[Cody Rhodes]

You. I think you'd have to create the.

[Matt Cardona]

It could be me and Chelsea versus you and Brandy.

[Cody Rhodes]

Oh, wow.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

Is it. What's the difference between Mixtag and Intergender? Can't. Which can the, like, men.

[Matt Cardona]

I think Intergender, the men can hit the women.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah, yeah. And then mix tag, it's got. That's awkward thing where the tag happens and then the other one just fades away. Okay, so you put. Put together this dream match. What type of match is it? How does it go? Who wins?

[Matt Cardona]

All right. My, my, my fantasy booking match is Chelsea Green.

[Cody Rhodes]

Great.

[Matt Cardona]

Versus you. Whoever wins has to pay for a VIP tour at Disney.

[Cody Rhodes]

Jeez. And they're up there now.

[Matt Cardona]

They're up there.

[Cody Rhodes]

Okay.

[Matt Cardona]

And I want to do the rise, not just sitting down on the benches like you and Brandy like to do.

[Cody Rhodes]

Close toed shoes.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah. I'm saying we're moving. Yeah, yeah. No flip flops, you know?

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah, yeah, I got you.

[Matt Cardona]

And we got to go all the rides, all the hits. You versus Chelsea. Whoever wins pays for the vip.

[Cody Rhodes]

What. What type of match?

[Matt Cardona]

Ooh, could we do a ladder match?

[Cody Rhodes]

Okay, Ladder match.

[Matt Cardona]

Ladder match. Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

And you think Chelsea, like, climbing the ladder is going to climb the ladder?

[Matt Cardona]

I think so, Yeah. I know I'm not in the game yet, but when I'm in, I'll come. If you're up there, I'll shove you over, you know.

[Cody Rhodes]

Okay.

[Matt Cardona]

Put her on my shoulders and walk

[Cody Rhodes]

her up, you know, Savage List style. Oh, wow.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

Wow. All right, well, deal on an actual. I think we should actually. We can make a full bet about it.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

For real?

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

Dude, that's so crazy you mentioned that, because I actually get to give you the news. What's the again? You're. You're booking this segment as a fantasy booker and you're talking about not being in the game, which is because you just came back.

[Matt Cardona]

I just came back. Right.

[Cody Rhodes]

Not to be contentious, but actually 2K has allowed me to be the one to tell you. You will be downloadable. Oh, that's the latest WWE 2K. There it is. There it is. Thank you, Asmat Cardona.

[Matt Cardona]

That's. That's pretty damn cool. I'm. I think we've all talked about a T shirt, action figure, video game. You get those three. You made it.

[Cody Rhodes]

Okay. That's great.

[Matt Cardona]

Stiff handshake.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah. I'm getting old, dude. I wear glasses now.

[Matt Cardona]

You lie about your age, don't you? Huh? Don't you. You still lie about your age.

[Cody Rhodes]

How would I lie about my age? You lie about your height.

[Matt Cardona]

No bs, bro.

[Cody Rhodes]

The one time I went to the park with you and you had those. Those new shoes on. I'm not going to say their names. They were on Instagram. They give you the extra inch and.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah. And you and every photo lean forward. The cut off.

[Matt Cardona]

The one who goes like with a sleeveless shirt, oiled up.

[Cody Rhodes]

I've never oiled up.

[Matt Cardona]

No, You've never gone sleeveless.

[Cody Rhodes]

I've gone sleeveless. Sleeveless hoodie. Yes, I have.

[Matt Cardona]

You never. I don't want to get noticed, guys. I don't get noticed. American Nightmare jacket, American Nightmare hat.

[Cody Rhodes]

I wore. No, that.

[Matt Cardona]

No, that's not laughing because you know it's true. That was a shoot.

[Cody Rhodes]

We did a shoot recently. Oh, wow.

[Matt Cardona]

I don't get noticed.

[Cody Rhodes]

Oh, man.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

We mentioned it on your. Your sheet of my notes here. Crumbs. Make crumb cake.

[Matt Cardona]

That's right.

[Cody Rhodes]

You know, this little. Yeah.

[Matt Cardona]

You know, together.

[Cody Rhodes]

You know, and is that why you're never one to buy the drinks when people go out? Is that.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah. That's a curse. It's a lie, Cody. You know it's a lie. It's bullshit.

[Cody Rhodes]

That one gets.

[Matt Cardona]

I actually hate when people pay for me.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Matt Cardona]

I hate it like when you. If you ever offer dinner. I hate it.

[Cody Rhodes]

I don't think I've got that sentiment from you. You're about 35 wizard brews behind, bro.

[Matt Cardona]

Wizard bird. You gotta have the. The fire whiskey at the bar.

[Cody Rhodes]

Have it right there.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah. You can't walk away with it.

[Cody Rhodes]

This is a deep cut about. You have to have the fire whiskey there.

[Matt Cardona]

You can't have the two drinks.

[Cody Rhodes]

You can't be walking around with two.

[Matt Cardona]

You get the double fire whiskey and

[Cody Rhodes]

that's where things go.

[Matt Cardona]

That's where things that go.

[Cody Rhodes]

That's where things can go. Yeah. My gosh, I'm so excited to have you back.

[Matt Cardona]

I'm excited to be back.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Matt Cardona]

It's been a while. There were certainly times where I didn't think it was gonna happen.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah. Do you remember Ko buried me for one to come back? Remember that?

[Cody Rhodes]

Well, I asked Ko a question that then led. Then Led to that. I take full. No, no, no.

[Matt Cardona]

I certainly didn't, like, defend me at all. Yeah. You just laughed.

[Cody Rhodes]

You've hit it four or five times already. So I got it. I, I, I chuckled. And I was with my friend Kevin. Let me ask you this. You come back, who calls you? Who's the person who puts in the call?

[Matt Cardona]

Man. We go and we. We peel back the curtain here. So actually, that you don't want to. That's fine with me. I'll do the condensed version. So I'm working for tna, but not technically, like, under contract.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Matt Cardona]

And TNA does the invasion of nxt, and they asked to have me. And I know I'm not under contract, but I'm like, I'm not gonna. I'm gonna sneak in. Sure. I'll do it. Do that Leads to a match, and Chelsea was doing, I guess, media for Rumble in Saudi.

[Cody Rhodes]

Always doing media.

[Matt Cardona]

And Nick Khan was there.

[Cody Rhodes]

Okay.

[Matt Cardona]

And she said to Nick, like, something like, did you see my husband wrestle nxt? Nick said something like, I've always wanted to, you know, meet your husband, talk to your husband, give him my number.

[Cody Rhodes]

So, okay.

[Matt Cardona]

She gave me Nick Khan's number. You know, I'm texting immediately right away. And then Nick called me right there, said, what do you want? I want to come back.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Matt Cardona]

And the ball kind of got rolling

[Cody Rhodes]

from there now that you're back, and that's. Thank you for sharing.

[Matt Cardona]

I mean, there's a lot of ups and downs, but we'd be here for.

[Cody Rhodes]

No, but you use that sometimes throughout flirting with it many, many times.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

And then getting. Getting here, where you're back, I believe. 2019 again. These are real notes in terms of the last title you held in WWE.

[Matt Cardona]

2019. Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah. So 2019. What is it that you want to do next, man?

[Matt Cardona]

Fortunate to be tag team champion twice. Yeah. US Champ. IC Champ. I believe you were in the match. So technically, I beat you. Mania.

[Cody Rhodes]

WrestleMania.

[Matt Cardona]

I mean, I'd be lying if I said I didn't want to be the WWE Champ. That's the title. I think you and I are alike. We didn't just want to be wrestlers. We didn't just want to be W. Superstars. We want to be the WWE Champion. So why not swing for it?

[Cody Rhodes]

No. And I think that. I think putting that out there is ultimately, like, that's part of this whole process.

[Matt Cardona]

I mean, that's the goal ever since I was a little kid. And, you know, when I got fired, when I got released, like, it wasn't. How am I gonna get back there. Of course. It's always in the back of my mind.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Matt Cardona]

But every day, like, I list, like my goals in my head and that, that number one goal is BW Champion. You can't be the W champion unless you're in wwe.

[Cody Rhodes]

Sure.

[Matt Cardona]

So I had to get back there.

[Cody Rhodes]

I like that. Yeah. Well, here's to the goals. Yeah, here's the goals. Question for you. I don't know if you remember this. That is good. Thank you.

[Matt Cardona]

This is very good as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

Thank you again. Wheatley American Vodka. You get released from WWE and you called me.

[Matt Cardona]

Did.

[Cody Rhodes]

And do you remember? It's just a funny moment in the call. I don't think you remember it, but I remember it like it was yesterday. It wasn't a call I was expecting. I think I was at the Nightmare Factory. Whatever it happens, you called me and told me. I didn't say anything. Like, I just like. I kind of just like lingered upon you telling me. And do you remember what you said?

[Matt Cardona]

I do not.

[Cody Rhodes]

You go, gotta say something. And I like. It was so jarring because that was the day that a lot of releases were happening and stuff. Yeah. This episode is brought to you by WWE 2K26. You want to talk about legacy? You want to talk about the moments that define your life? That's what WWE 2K26 is all about. In this game, the show never stops. You want to talk about history? WWE 2K26 has the biggest roster ever assembled. Over 400 playable WWE Superstars and legends. From the rebellious heart of the Attitude era to the undeniable champions of today. You want to Talk about action? WWE 2K26 has brand new match types like I Quit Inferno and the three Stages of Hell match. Stacked tables the rules and embrace the unexpected. You've got the power to turn up the heat in every single corner of the ring. Control your universe. Craft your legacy. Show the world what you're made of. WWE 2K26 is available now on PS5, Xbox Series X and S, Steam and Nintendo Switch 2. Wherever you go, whatever they get into, from chill time to everyday adventures, protect your dog from parasites with Credelio Guattro.

[Matt Cardona]

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[Matt Cardona]

Ready to upgrade your sound?

[Cody Rhodes]

Shop now at Amazon and search Whim Sound. That's W I I M S O U n D how now we've talked about the call coming back. You're here, of course, you more than a great many of people, clearly you deserve to be here. You deserve this moment and the moments that are coming to you.

[Matt Cardona]

Sure.

[Cody Rhodes]

What, what's the first thing that comes to mind when you did get released in terms of did you have a plan? I think a lot of people look at you because of how well you promoted yourself, how high production values, which we'll talk about, that you put into your work. Did you have a plan? Because it looked like you did or did you. Did you not.

[Matt Cardona]

Did not have a plan. So when I got released, it was the very beginning of the pandemic. There was nowhere else to really work. There was no independence to work. The world was shut down. Also the year prior, I don't wanna say everybody in wwe, but everyone I knew got offered five, five year new deals and I didn't take it because I didn't know if I wanted to stay or go. Cause my career had a lot of highs and lows, like as everybody's does. So I wasn't sure. And the anxiety for that whole year, like, am I gonna stay? Am I gonna go? Am I gonna say am I gonna go? When I got fired, it was like they made the decision for me.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Matt Cardona]

It was like this, this instant weight off my shoulders and like I needed to get fired. I needed to go out there and find who was Matt Cardona. Yeah, the Zack Ryder guy. It was great. You know, I'm so grateful for it. The woo woo. It was awesome. But it had to change and it wasn't going to change in that WWE environment. So I just, I had to get let go. Yeah. No, no real plan because like I said, like there's nowhere to go.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Matt Cardona]

There's no indies.

[Cody Rhodes]

I, I applaud because I feel like. And I would not usually put this guy over on this podcast, but I will hear Drew McIntyre, somebody who left or was released and found his way and then started finding. Oh, I can make noise.

[Matt Cardona]

Yes.

[Cody Rhodes]

I can bang the drum loud enough that my friends at WWE at the higher ups are looking. Oh, what he's doing it right. Something that I was very impressed with is you spent a lot. You invested again, like a classic. Invest in yourself. But when you're. What's it called? The Ecto Cooler.

[Matt Cardona]

What?

[Cody Rhodes]

When you're the one Ecto one. When you're driving in a Ecto one Ghostbusters official vehicle into independent shows where they didn't even know how to get a car in the parking lot, for that matter. And then you're. You're working with promoters, you're working with promotions like gcw. You're trying to give these big visuals in this high production value, which works because that's the character you are. You've been at wwe. But also, it's a little bit of a nudge. You guys could use this, too. It's not that. Don't. Don't try and be too cool for school, guys. Go. Go big. I thought it was really incredible. And I thought you took what Drew had done a little bit of what I had done. And I think you made it very, very much a different blueprint and a different.

[Matt Cardona]

And I certainly stole from you. I stole from Drew, but I added my own flavor. And I was the WWE guy in the Indies.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Matt Cardona]

And I was gonna make people hate me for being the WWE guy.

[Cody Rhodes]

Right.

[Matt Cardona]

You know, So I win the GCW world title in this death match. Call myself the Death Match King. Yeah. I only had one death match.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Matt Cardona]

You know what I'm saying? Like, people to this day at autograph signings. Oh, I love all those death matches.

[Cody Rhodes]

I did one, you did the one.

[Matt Cardona]

You know, But I took that title. I made it a spinner. I made it Velcro. I called it the GCW Universe. If you're going to hate me for being a WWE guy, you're going to really hate me for being a WWE. And I treated every big show like it was WrestleMania. Because if I'm not treating like WrestleMania, then why am I even doing it, you know?

[Cody Rhodes]

Sure. I wanted to ask about. You're going into this match with Nick Gage, and it's an iconic shot that everyone who works in a wrestling company that makes money from men and women falling down in a ring. Saw a clip.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

Saw whether it was you walk into the ring in one of the most contentious moments or saw you getting pelted with beer cans and all kinds of things after. Were you nervous? And this is my thought. We don't have to talk about companies or this person you wrestled specifically, but what you were doing was not your forte.

[Matt Cardona]

No.

[Cody Rhodes]

What you were doing was. Was a death match and we look it up, folks. Yeah, it's. What you were doing was that. Were you nervous? Because I always found you to be a bit of a skittish.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

That you were. You were an old school type wrestler. Skittish is not the word. We're not supposed to really hurt each other.

[Matt Cardona]

Right.

[Cody Rhodes]

We got to do it again tomorrow night. Now it should look like we do, you know, like the Bret Hart.

[Matt Cardona]

Yes.

[Cody Rhodes]

Thought of. Make this look amazing, but we need to do it every night in a little bit.

[Matt Cardona]

I'm a little snug, obviously.

[Cody Rhodes]

I know you're. And Chelsea has reiterated that not snug, but rather considered rather stiff. Were you nervous going in and what. What are your thoughts pre Nick Gage, deathmatch and post? Because this is. This is a point where you got everyone's attention.

[Matt Cardona]

Yes. So this is a couple months into my indie run. Who is Matt Cardona? I didn't even know. I knew. Am I just Zack Ryder with my own name? That sucks. Right, Right. I. I needed to find myself. I thought about, like, people are going to want to see Zack Ryder get carved up by Nick Gage. I knew it would create buzz, but I did not anticipate the amount of buzz it would create. Like, it changed my career, changed my life. Like, social media, it's a big deal. I'm Internet champ. Right. But like, that night, it trended. Number one, that match over the Olympics and like an independent wrestling show in Atlantic State, New Jersey.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Matt Cardona]

Because people, whether they bought or they wanted to just read about it or see it on Twitter.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Matt Cardona]

They wanted to see.

[Cody Rhodes]

Had to look and see what you were doing.

[Matt Cardona]

Exactly.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Matt Cardona]

And then the fact that I won. Oh, man. And it was. I didn't dip my toe in it. I did a cannonball into that death match. It wasn't. It wasn't a street fight. There was the. The pizza cutters, the glass, the light tubes. Like, if I was going to do it, I was going to do it. And I knew I'd get a little bloody, so I wore like, all white, like, Like a white T shirt. But that white shirt was maroon afterwards.

[Cody Rhodes]

Just covered in blood after it. Would you do one ever again?

[Matt Cardona]

I'm not saying I would never do it again.

[Cody Rhodes]

Great. Yeah.

[Matt Cardona]

But like, the, the circumstances need to be right. The opponent, the story, the money.

[Cody Rhodes]

Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Crumbs make crumb cake, right?

[Matt Cardona]

That's right.

[Cody Rhodes]

I got that on my face.

[Matt Cardona]

It ain't show friends.

[Cody Rhodes]

Okay. I asked this, like, because you said something yeah, there was a story.

[Matt Cardona]

Yes.

[Cody Rhodes]

There's such an argument online about, oh, the spots. Oh, the storytelling, cinema versus. And I don't think people realize it's both.

[Matt Cardona]

It's everything.

[Cody Rhodes]

And when it's everything, it works. And here's the story. If it's a. If a. I remember there was a tag match that followed me one time. I had wrestled Ethan Page, and I thought we did a great job, and we had a crowd that was already a little contentious, and I was getting booze and things were happening, but I. We. I knew we killed it.

[Matt Cardona]

Right.

[Cody Rhodes]

But then there was a match that followed us, and six people on X liked it, and it was. It was indulgent. There was no story to it. It didn't. They worked super hard. It wasn't a matter of not working. But if you're gonna do the death match, as we're talking about here, and we don't have to circle this forever, right. If there's not a story, then it's just indulgence.

[Matt Cardona]

If that makes anyone up with a

[Cody Rhodes]

light, too, it's 100% yes. And that's why I kind of have liked the ones that I've seen. And yours is one that if you see yours, you may not need to see others to have a story going into it. Afterwards, though, this happens. There's photos of the hotel, the bed, all the that. Would you say you didn't regret it? Right?

[Matt Cardona]

Not one day goes by where I regret it instantly in the moment. I knew this is. This is going to change my career.

[Cody Rhodes]

Okay.

[Matt Cardona]

100%.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah. And it did.

[Matt Cardona]

It did. I don't think I'd be sitting here if it wasn't for that match.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Matt Cardona]

I don't think I'd be back in WWE if it wasn't for that match and everything I did on the indie, specifically gcw.

[Cody Rhodes]

Let me ask you a question, because I asked Kevin this question before that happened. I was trying to go somewhere else. God bless my boy, Kevin. Who do you think right now is out there, who is kind of the face of the independent scene? Because I think you stayed a year longer than I anticipated you to stay, if that makes any sense.

[Matt Cardona]

I stayed four years longer than I. Okay.

[Cody Rhodes]

Like, you fill a block. Oh, my gosh, look at what they're doing. And then it's like, okay, he's coming home.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

Oh, nope. All right. He's still doing it. Right. And then you found new layers.

[Matt Cardona]

You had to. And that was the toughest part. Every single year. How do I top last year? How Do I? You know, if you're making the towns.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Matt Cardona]

How do you come back? How do you get the promoter to still want to pay for you? How do you get the fans to want to get your 8 by 10, your T shirt, you know, your meet and greet. So you had to keep reinventing. And it was tough, but it was so much fun. I love the Hustle. That's one thing I miss about the wwe. I don't get to carry my merch bags. There's no merch bags. So that's the one thing I miss.

[Cody Rhodes]

You told me something about the Hustle.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

I don't know if you'll like me sharing this. It'll probably fall into the Cody like category, but it's not. You said that you love the feeling of taking cash and putting it in your fanny. You said it was orgasmic.

[Matt Cardona]

True. It's, it's the greatest feeling in the world.

[Cody Rhodes]

Okay.

[Matt Cardona]

Because like meeting those fans at these conventions or before the show, I would, I would, I wouldn't yell at the other wrestlers who were going over their matches beforehand. But I was like, guys, it's not about, okay, yes, it's about this money, but it's about making the connection with this audience. Right? Like you're make this face to face interaction. You're selling whatever, you're talking to them, you're taking a picture. Like they might remember that for the rest of their lives.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Matt Cardona]

And then the oh, I'm a heel, blah, blah, that's a cop out, right?

[Cody Rhodes]

You, you just know one of the biggest cop outs.

[Matt Cardona]

Why don't you just be an absolute asshole, don't sell a thing. And then when you come out through the curtain, they'll be even louder.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Matt Cardona]

Like what are we doing here?

[Cody Rhodes]

Well, again like story, this confusion about what it all is. And you said it best. It's everything, connection. If I didn't know someone and I met them at the table and I'm waiting for that guy, but I met this guy, I now have someone I am rooting for or man, this guy, I don't like him one bit. What? I now have someone I'm rooting against. It's the same thing when today wrestling. And I've seen this at the Nightmare Factory. I'm sure you've seen this. Everyone can do everything. It seems like, sure. Oh, what move.

[Matt Cardona]

They're just getting better and better.

[Cody Rhodes]

The athletics were better athletes, better skills. The high spots are through the roof. But when I say something, I, I never mean it in that heavy handed like, well, what's how's your promo? But to me, I always tell the kids of the factory, I said, that's the ticket to a career now.

[Matt Cardona]

Yes.

[Cody Rhodes]

If you can talk in a way not. Not a fake sales pitch. If you can talk in a way that they are interested. I like him. Yeah, that like classic old school booker name him, whoever it was. That's my guy. That's my guy. Yeah. Like, yeah, you know, this one does some cool stuff too, but that's my guy. There's a connection to it and I feel like that's something that has been very hard to say. And, and you know how everything is so polarizing now. You're either on one side of the fence. It's crazy when you sit in the middle and like, no, this is like Javon, Javon right now. He's got a reinventive style.

[Matt Cardona]

Right?

[Cody Rhodes]

But getting to know Javon makes you even more excited about the reinvented style. Getting to know Javon gets you more excited about the dumb thing he's going to do. Because now you have a hope that I hope he hits it.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

Oh, man. You know, versus again, indulgence and just doing it for the sake of doing it. I feel very on a high horse over all this and I'm not trying to be, but, you know, because like the old, the old time guys are like, well, it's not about the five stars. They. They make it so contentious right out of the gate. It's not, it's. It's everything. If. If that makes any sense.

[Matt Cardona]

I. I tell people on the Indies all the time when they ask me for advice. Like I say, like, Hogan Rock WrestleMania 18. One of my favorite matches of all time. If not, you know, arguably one of the greatest. If you just took two random indie wrestlers to do that match move for move, it would suck because it's not about the moves.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Matt Cardona]

It's about the connection those guys had with the audience. The story that match was telling. It's not okay. Moves are great. It's so much more than just moves. And people might hate me for saying that maybe I don't have so many moves.

[Cody Rhodes]

I heard somebody say, well, if you watch it with the sound off, it's like not any good. And I wanted to be like, and excuse my language, who the is watching it with a sound off. You know what I'm saying? Talking about the face of the Indies. You having stayed a bit longer than I thought. Do you have someone that you're looking at right now? I have one that I just found okay. And don't. I don't know enough.

[Matt Cardona]

All right, let me. Can I say mine?

[Cody Rhodes]

Yes, go ahead.

[Matt Cardona]

I have two.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Matt Cardona]

And I. I've seen these guys all over the place, and I think effort is very important to me.

[Cody Rhodes]

Huge. Who is trying shaming bro.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah, yeah. Who's trying. On social media?

[Cody Rhodes]

Tommy Invincible.

[Matt Cardona]

Well, time invisible is great. That's not one of my picks.

[Cody Rhodes]

Okay. Okay.

[Matt Cardona]

That's not your pick because I feel like. And I would say it's the guys and girls all the time. Like, if you don't want to. If you want to put your phone away for the week, WWE is going to post about you. Netflix, w Shop, espn, blah, blah, Wheatley. Wheatley. Right. If. If. When I was on the Indies, if I didn't post about me, who's gonna do it?

[Cody Rhodes]

Sure.

[Matt Cardona]

So I would say Ben Bishop and Richard Holiday are my two guys.

[Cody Rhodes]

Okay.

[Matt Cardona]

Richard Holiday, who post a lot, who advance their stories, who will do the. The cell phone promo that nobody wants to do. Right. Oh, can you send me this promo? No one wants to do that. You have to.

[Cody Rhodes]

So both those guys. Yes, Ben.

[Matt Cardona]

Ben Bishop and Richard Holland. My two guys. There's meant. There's many other guys and girls out there.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Matt Cardona]

But they're the two that come to mind. I.

[Cody Rhodes]

It was actually Andrew Schultz when I was doing Street Fighters, the one who told me about Tommy Invincible.

[Matt Cardona]

Okay.

[Cody Rhodes]

And I watched him, who clearly looks like he's st lot of your playbook.

[Matt Cardona]

Well, I love to.

[Cody Rhodes]

I need to. I need to. I need to look at these two guys. Here's my question for you, though. Are we. Are you selling two guys? I don't know enough.

[Matt Cardona]

Sure.

[Cody Rhodes]

I clearly I've gone full corporate.

[Matt Cardona]

Sure.

[Cody Rhodes]

I'm in my own bubble now. Like, I'll even put my glasses on

[Matt Cardona]

for you, you know, so corporate Cody.

[Cody Rhodes]

Here I am. Is. Is. Are they. Are they good, though? Like, if you. Are they good in terms of. Because I think the moves do matter a little bit.

[Matt Cardona]

I think they're good. I think they're perfect WWE Superstars.

[Cody Rhodes]

Okay. Is. Does that mean, though, I don't want to see a rear chin lock in 2026.

[Matt Cardona]

You're. You don't like holds, right?

[Cody Rhodes]

I. No, I love a hold because the point of a hold is not to rest.

[Matt Cardona]

Right.

[Cody Rhodes]

When I hear.

[Matt Cardona]

Oh, no, the rest.

[Cody Rhodes]

When I hear like a 20 year old like, oh, he's got him in a restaurant or I heard Matt come on talks earlier say that Bobby E. No sold something. And I said, let's stop.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

Bobby Never did anything wrong in his life. He's Bobby Eden. But the point of a hold is so that the crowd catches up.

[Matt Cardona]

Sure. And digests everything.

[Cody Rhodes]

Digests everything and starts to come for the person that they want to are. Are. The point of a hold is to hang on to that heat. No, that's not happening for your guy yet. To get the crowd, because they are the other man in the ring.

[Matt Cardona]

Absolutely. 100.

[Cody Rhodes]

The other person in the ring. See, about. That's the point of holding. However, in the 90s, some of my heroes ruined holds by throwing on that and just looking out. Look at her.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

Turn this way. Look at that chick. So that. That's a Nightmare factory rule. No rear chins unless you're over 50 is the joke.

[Matt Cardona]

Okay.

[Cody Rhodes]

And we have one guy who. There who's over 50.

[Matt Cardona]

Okay.

[Cody Rhodes]

He puts it on.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah, that's fine.

[Cody Rhodes]

Isn't that much different?

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

You know. Yeah. What was I asking you about? And they're going into this restaurant.

[Matt Cardona]

Are they good?

[Cody Rhodes]

You said, are they good?

[Matt Cardona]

I think so.

[Cody Rhodes]

All right.

[Matt Cardona]

I wrestled them both.

[Cody Rhodes]

Okay.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

And. And. And. And their future, you think? Are you helpful to those? It's hard to be in the position you're in and the position you're in now. It's hard when you see people you want to help.

[Matt Cardona]

Yep.

[Cody Rhodes]

They need to help themselves first.

[Matt Cardona]

Sure.

[Cody Rhodes]

But do you feel you're helpful as a buddy, or is it, hey, anytime

[Matt Cardona]

someone asks for advice, I give it. Or if there's something I can do, I give it. The one piece of advice I give everybody is it's easy. But the advice is easy.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Matt Cardona]

Don't quit. Of course, you might make it if you don't quit. You definitely won't make it if you do. And that's the advice that I would tell myself every day in the mirror.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Matt Cardona]

You know, these past five, five and a half years. Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

Did you ever verbally say it? Don't quit. That's a strong image, man. Looking at. Thinking of what you were doing, there

[Matt Cardona]

were so many times I'm thinking, like, what else do I have to do?

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Matt Cardona]

To get back here? Like, I was with SDL for a while. Step the lander.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Matt Cardona]

And I would call.

[Cody Rhodes]

She came to a meet and greet with Stardust one time. Right.

[Matt Cardona]

I think she did.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Matt Cardona]

He's great. But when Chelsea left, I knew I needed a new ballet. And I'm like, okay, let me get someone different. My wife, a heater. Someone who's tall, who can beat somebody up. At one point, I'm like, you need to get away from me because you're not getting a dirty with me. Like, that's. I'm like, stay away. Because I'm like, I'm not getting back.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

Oh, you consider yourself toxic.

[Matt Cardona]

That's right. Interesting, because I was like, if I'm not getting back now, I ain't getting back. So get away from me because I'm not your meal ticket.

[Cody Rhodes]

They don't really make them like you anymore in a sense that they're. There are a few left. And I'm not saying it's probably. It's cyclical, the industry, so things come back and policy change and protocol change. But you, you coined a term to me one time that I loved. You said, you know, I'm gonna go to the gym, I'm gonna go tan. I'm gonna be there early. I'm gonna be well dressed. I'm not gonna leave at the middle of the show. God forbid. I'm not gonna leave at the beginning of the show. I watched the other day that walk right by me. Where are you going? What if someone gets hurt?

[Matt Cardona]

Sneak out.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah. That's the other thing. I'm almost not mad at you leaving early. You're blatantly doing it, bro. Bags by Gorilla while the last two matches go in. That's a classic.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah, that's that.

[Cody Rhodes]

I get that you're. Oh, he's. I'm still here.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

But I won't be. Right.

[Matt Cardona]

You know, but it's making room in

[Cody Rhodes]

the locker room just right in front of me. And then you ask, like, why are the Same guys on WrestleMania? I'll tell you why. That. That's part of it. Anyways, where were we on. I said no. But all these things, when I brought them up to you, you're like, that's crazy. That's crazy that such and such doesn't want to do that appearance. That's crazy that.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah. Before I came back, you were telling me some things like, people like say no to things I couldn't.

[Cody Rhodes]

Well, it's just a different. And again, I, I. Everyone has to adjust.

[Matt Cardona]

Sure. Different. Different era.

[Cody Rhodes]

Creature comforts. Different era. I'm not. Right. But I think the way I was trained and brought up, I value that more. Like, oh, it's cool to put in effort. I'm not going to wear sweatpants on a run in.

[Matt Cardona]

Right.

[Cody Rhodes]

You know, which I might have worn sweatpants on a run.

[Matt Cardona]

They probably had the logo on it.

[Cody Rhodes]

Of course. You know what I'm saying?

[Matt Cardona]

Branding.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah. Like, I. And And I, and I, and I thought about that. And now that you're plugged. Plugged into the system, do you feel a responsibility to be more of that? Are you trying to adjust to what WWE is now?

[Matt Cardona]

No, I'm definitely going to be myself and control what I can control. I mean, it's been said to death, but that's all we can really do at this point. Right. Especially someone like me. You come in here like I knew coming back to wwe, like, I cannot hit a home run if I'm not in the game.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Matt Cardona]

If I'm not even on the team, I just need to get back because I can't. Like I said, I can't be WWE Champion if I'm not in wwe.

[Cody Rhodes]

Sure.

[Matt Cardona]

So now that I'm here, I'm going to do whatever I can. And if I'm not, you know, let's say one week, I'm not doing much. I'm still going to show up like I'm in the main event.

[Cody Rhodes]

Sure.

[Matt Cardona]

Dressed to impress, so to speak.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Matt Cardona]

Have brand new gear or nice looking gear. Good physique, good tan. Control what I can control. That's it.

[Cody Rhodes]

Bobby Rood and I would talk about you. Shout out to Bobby Rood, by the way, because he was watching you do your run in practice and we were giggling. He was always saying like, oh, he's always ready. Yeah, seen a dude seen it too. Like he's in shape. And. And that became a thing. I went on a rant one time, we don't have to circle it too long with La Knight, about, well, how do you feel about guys who don't go to the gym? And we, we had strong feelings about it.

[Matt Cardona]

Let's not talk.

[Cody Rhodes]

I mean, and then, but then I realized I'm like, it is a different era.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

Really? It really is. And I want to kind of know, like, okay, what's. What's the new thing? Like, why not What's. Is it because you've seen this? Or.

[Matt Cardona]

Sure.

[Cody Rhodes]

I don't know. Or is it you do it but you don't want people to know? Because I think a problem with you and I as we speak is we're letting everyone know, oh, here's all the things I did.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah, yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

You know, here's all the things. And I think that's kind of, that's kind of nerdy in its own self. Like, we get it, bro. You know, like I had my story time stamped yesterday. You see, I was in two different cities, guys.

[Matt Cardona]

I was like, oh, man.

[Cody Rhodes]

So.

[Matt Cardona]

But you, but that's you got to do that.

[Cody Rhodes]

That's my generation of, hey, not everyone knows what you're doing always.

[Matt Cardona]

I hate saying, but perception is reality, right? It really is. If you carry yourself like a star, you're perceived to be a star.

[Cody Rhodes]

I. I think one of the coolest things about sitting with you in this moment I've just kind of been uncovering it, is we're always looking for who we are. Right? Like, the glasses are funny or whatever. I'll try things here and there. We're always looking for who we are. And I remember Chris Van Vliet, of all people, one time asked me, are you always in character? And the way he said almost hurt me because I couldn't tell. I was like, man, maybe, maybe, like, maybe. I just can't ever escape the idea of talking about a wrestling match or thinking about, will this lean into a wrestling. Will this help us sell tickets? It was a. It. To this day, it's like a haunting question. But one of the things I got out of that moment was I think I'm more than ever aware of who I am. I haven't fully discovered it, but I think I'm aware of who I am. The coolest thing about sitting here with you now is you're explaining the process. But I don't think you need the process anymore because it seems like you know who you are. Like, you're saying all these things for the, well, hey, dress for success.

[Matt Cardona]

Right?

[Cody Rhodes]

Perception is reality. You're saying all the things we were brought up on, but I don't think you realize it's just who you are now.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah, I definitely think it's, like, it's not performative. It's not. Right.

[Cody Rhodes]

Like, sure, you came here and you, like, this is you now, right?

[Matt Cardona]

I. Dude, that's like going to the gym later, after this. Like, it's not. I just. It's part of the day.

[Cody Rhodes]

It's part of the job.

[Matt Cardona]

It's like going to the bathroom, going to the gym.

[Cody Rhodes]

And you're saying it now. So you're, you know.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah. I mean, but that's it.

[Cody Rhodes]

No, but it's. It's real. And I think a lot of people will say stuff to me, talking about. I remember this was a problem I had when I was away from wwe, like, oh, you're always trying to look better than everybody. And I never meant it that way.

[Matt Cardona]

Yes.

[Cody Rhodes]

No, I just. This feels like me.

[Matt Cardona]

Well, the best version of yourself.

[Cody Rhodes]

Right.

[Matt Cardona]

It's not. It's not your fault that someone's not. Yeah, I Don't dress, you know, a

[Cody Rhodes]

certain way again, like, mediocrity loves company.

[Matt Cardona]

Right.

[Cody Rhodes]

And what's so strange about saying, like, Timothy Chalamet was on this podcast and he's famous for the pursuit of excellence.

[Matt Cardona]

Yes.

[Cody Rhodes]

It's not strange to pursue excellence. And I feel like, I hope people know when they see you that it's just you now. Like, yes, we keep track of it. And, yeah, that's part of the daily life of a wrestler who grew up in our era of OVW and Deep south. And in our era of that, that was all about we got to do all these things, but now they're who we are. And I think. I think, if anything, I have thought it gave me an edge over the competition because so when I put stuff out about, hey, here's all I did or here's what I'm doing today, here's what I'm doing tomorrow, part of it is a little bit of a middle finger to the others.

[Matt Cardona]

It should be. It should light a fire up.

[Cody Rhodes]

Part of it is a little bit of, hey, this is a lonely position, but if you wanted it right, come and get it.

[Matt Cardona]

Yep.

[Cody Rhodes]

And like, Cena was like that. And it's weird that we didn't see it, but we did see it, you know, and. And it's just a great. A great model. Today we are excited to introduce a new sponsor to the show. Morgan and Morgan, America's largest injury law firm. They've been fighting for the people for over 35 years and have recovered over $30 billion for their clients. Not only are they one of our new sponsors, they are also the official law firm partner of wwe. And what I love most about Morgan and Morgan is that they are truly for the people today. They are coming in hot and want to hook up one lucky fan with two tickets to WrestleMania 42 in Las Vegas this April 18th and 19th. In addition to the two tickets to WrestleMania, our friends at Morgan and Morgan will also be giving the lucky winner $2,000 to help cover their travel expenses to Las Vegas. To enter, all you have to do is text Cody 42 to for the People. That's Cody 42 to 484-373-6753 and follow prompts. Don't miss out on your chance to watch WrestleMania 42 live. Just text Cody42 to for the people. No purchase necessary. Open a legal residence of the 48 contiguous United States and D.C. who are 18 and older. Sweepstakes ends March 29, 2026. This is a paid advertisement. I want to Ask you something. Do you know the full story. Do you know the full story of when I left wwe? What happened that day?

[Matt Cardona]

I beat you. You were stardust.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yes. Those are the, the, those are, those are the notes.

[Matt Cardona]

Did we do, like, a Disney podcast, A theme park podcast?

[Cody Rhodes]

We did one with Jericho. Yeah, that day.

[Matt Cardona]

But I beat you on.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah, but do you know the story of me and Road Dog in that day?

[Matt Cardona]

Do you know, you might have told me.

[Cody Rhodes]

It's, it's.

[Matt Cardona]

Tell me again today.

[Cody Rhodes]

I, I, I love Road Dog.

[Matt Cardona]

Sure.

[Cody Rhodes]

He's been very good as a coach for me. Right back then, we were all learning our new things, and he, I think, was a producer at the time. He had just become a producer. He kind of weeble. Wobbled in and out of it. You and I wrestled six, seven, eight times, main event superstars. We were always happy to wrestle because it was a fresh crowd.

[Matt Cardona]

Absolutely.

[Cody Rhodes]

Crowd was hot.

[Matt Cardona]

What an opportunity, too.

[Cody Rhodes]

Like, the opportunity. Not fake use of the word. A real. To get the crowd excited. I see that a lot today when somebody's going out for a main event match. Like, I just saw Royce Keys, formerly Will Hobbs, go do one. And I thought, man, he took advantage of that. You got to, he, he didn't just think of that as like, oh, this is a rep for. No, this is a, this is a rep for you. It's a way to touch this audience. He took advantage of it the same way we did. So. But we, we'd gone back and forth on finishes. You would go over, I would go over, you would go over. There wasn't a method to this madness. And I, to this day, love this quote because I've actually now used it. But I came up to him, I said, hey, me and Matt are wrestling, and this is like the eighth time we wrestled in three months. What do you want out of this? Like, who's over? Do you know what he said?

[Matt Cardona]

Doesn't matter. Something like that.

[Cody Rhodes]

He goes, does it really matter? And I thought, no. And I remember I went to you, I was like, he wants you over. Yeah, finish. You know, eight minutes. What do you want to do? Whatever. And I knew that. That. Does it really matter? I wasn't mad at him. I was of the thought, this moment doesn't. We're about getting this crowd excited. Our narratives are not going anywhere in terms of. We're not, we're not trying to build upon something that doesn't exist. And there are certain moments in wrestling that's, in certain psychologies and things where it's, oh, that's so wrong or that's so right. You. You do find yourself in those scenarios where I have now said, huh? Does it really matter?

[Matt Cardona]

Right?

[Cody Rhodes]

You know, like. Or might be overthinking the point here, but that was. That was one of my favorite things. The fact that I could go to you and essentially lie and say, like, oh. He said, like, oh, you over with your friend. And then I knew because I don't think I told you.

[Matt Cardona]

No, no, no.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah, I don't think I told you that because, you know, the talent relations guy. That's what he said to me on the way out. He's like, I'll see you next week. And I loudly said, no, you won't. And. And I kept going. And then I wasn't there the next week. Sami Zayn always talks about. He was booked against me on the live events, and I wasn't there. And he, like, selfishly is like, well, I had to wrestle. So, like, it's all like, buddy, I was going through it too, but, yeah, I didn't know if you knew the full, like, how the day went, but it was. It's kind of. It's funny to me that it was you.

[Matt Cardona]

That is funny.

[Cody Rhodes]

I did all your moves. The Elbro, the Wood awakening. The Wood awakening. Stall suplex.

[Matt Cardona]

You got to give me the suplex.

[Cody Rhodes]

I counter you, but you land, and you always tell people, you give them the spacing.

[Matt Cardona]

I need some space.

[Cody Rhodes]

You need some space. So I remember we did it over a ladder.

[Matt Cardona]

The tricky one.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah, I didn't want to land in a ladder. You remember when you told me to give you a minute because you asked me. Asked me to powerbomb you, and you knocked the wind out of yourself. Or I knocked the window.

[Matt Cardona]

You might have. Well, through snug.

[Cody Rhodes]

You know that Stardust with his. His signature power bomb. Well, speaking of power bomb, what's your least favorite bump to take?

[Matt Cardona]

Least favorite bump to take? I hate chops. That's not even a bump.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah, you know, chop, chop. You gotta be in the mood for chop.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah, you gotta be in the mood. It's gonna be, like, deep in the match. Like.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Matt Cardona]

It needs to be like a war.

[Cody Rhodes]

Well, you know what?

[Matt Cardona]

I've now taken a chop. Like.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Matt Cardona]

Oh, I remember, like, once, like, Mojo, like, snap married me on a live event.

[Cody Rhodes]

Dude, we should talk about that.

[Matt Cardona]

He snapped on me and then, like, ran the ropes and chopped me in the back. I just got up. No, sold. And slapped him in the face.

[Cody Rhodes]

Oh, do you remember. Do you remember your quote about Mojo

[Matt Cardona]

let's not talk about anybody.

[Cody Rhodes]

You played as much with NFL football as him.

[Matt Cardona]

That's true. Zero games. Come on. I love Mojo. I love being well, the.

[Cody Rhodes]

One of the worst matches I ever had in my life.

[Matt Cardona]

That was a great match.

[Cody Rhodes]

In Charlotte, North Carolina.

[Matt Cardona]

One of my favorite moments ever.

[Cody Rhodes]

Bro busted his nose on the entrance.

[Matt Cardona]

It's me and Mojo. It's you and Adam Rose.

[Cody Rhodes]

Oh, my gosh. As stardust. Me. Is that me? And then Adam Rose. Okay. Bust his nose doing his hype Bros entrance.

[Matt Cardona]

I don't know if it was on the entrance, but I think it was during his. His shine. And then we have to go home because of the blood. And you're. You're hot.

[Cody Rhodes]

I was furious.

[Matt Cardona]

I remember you walked off. You just smacked like this coffee cup out of some ladies heads.

[Cody Rhodes]

It wasn't in a lady's hands. It was on like a. Like a trash can. I was. I was. Because I remember it was Charlotte and I thought like, guys, this was a major market and I. I couldn't be hot at you, but that guy was like such. Oh, I don't know. I don't want to get into it. I don't know. He's a great guy. Great. Yeah. No, but I. I remember thinking like, again, low after low after low. These are almost like accidental at this point that they're. When it rains, it pours with chops. You said you. You're not a fan of chops. What? I'm not a fan of the guys who now have the signature chop. Like, you know, their chops are so much.

[Matt Cardona]

Right.

[Cody Rhodes]

So you go into it without thinking. Like, you're thinking about that chop.

[Matt Cardona]

Right.

[Cody Rhodes]

Versus there's a couple guys who have an old school skill of warming a chop up. And I don't even know. I didn't know that was a skill until someone did it with me recently where they gave me one, then the next one had more, and then the next one versus that first one.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

Coming across. And I thought, this is a skill.

[Matt Cardona]

Yes.

[Cody Rhodes]

It's also a bit of like, hey, hit me, dude. I'm gonna hit you. Hit me.

[Matt Cardona]

Hit.

[Cody Rhodes]

You know, and I. So interesting on the. The chops.

[Matt Cardona]

I can't complain about someone hitting me because I like, I'm a little snug in there. Arne Anderson told me I was too pretty, so, yeah, I had to lay it in a little bit.

[Cody Rhodes]

Who. Who's your favorite producer to work with?

[Matt Cardona]

Coming back, it's been. It's been different, you know, a whole new crop of guys, you know, so, like, back in the day, it was on, you know, irs, Ricky Steamboat. Right now, it's. It's totally. It's guys that we worked.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Matt Cardona]

Kenny Hurricane, you know, Williams, Davari.

[Cody Rhodes]

They're great, though.

[Matt Cardona]

They're awesome.

[Cody Rhodes]

Molly.

[Matt Cardona]

Yes.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah. All really, so many great. Really great. Really great group of producers, I think, especially on the few live events we get. We get to have those moments. I'd be remiss if I didn't bring out. I know I get too much credit for it, and I'm not trying to take credit for it, but, like, I'm slightly involved in the. You and Chelsea greens.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah. But, yeah, you got connections. I gave you and Brandy credit during my.

[Cody Rhodes]

During the vows, bro.

[Matt Cardona]

You were.

[Cody Rhodes]

You were Red face.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

Getting there.

[Matt Cardona]

Those are good vows.

[Cody Rhodes]

The whole. The wedding, I would say I. I've told Chelsea the same. The wedding is the greatest wedding I've ever been part of.

[Matt Cardona]

There was a New Year's Eve party that had a wedding attached to it.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah. I couldn't make it to the New Year's party.

[Matt Cardona]

Well, you had work the next day.

[Cody Rhodes]

I had a zoom.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah. Oh, man.

[Cody Rhodes]

But the wedding was phenomenal.

[Matt Cardona]

What a great day. But, yeah, you and Brandy. So I'm. I just moved to Orlando, 2017. I blew out my knee.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah, I remember.

[Matt Cardona]

So I'm like.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah. You were in your leather jacket phase, too.

[Matt Cardona]

I always have a leather jacket.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah, but this was like, you. You were really pushing it on everyone.

[Matt Cardona]

Push it. It was.

[Cody Rhodes]

I felt like it was 100 degrees.

[Matt Cardona]

It was January. Okay, then. You guys working for TNA?

[Cody Rhodes]

Yep.

[Matt Cardona]

In Universal. We met up at the Cowfish.

[Cody Rhodes]

Cowfish.

[Matt Cardona]

Burguchi has kind of gone downhill.

[Cody Rhodes]

I don't know if we have to touch that. I like cowfish still.

[Matt Cardona]

Cowfish. Just step it up. It used to be, like, the spot, you know?

[Cody Rhodes]

I like cowfish. I'm not knocking cow.

[Matt Cardona]

I'm not knocking cow. It used to be a lot better. We agree on that.

[Cody Rhodes]

You're. But I. I would say your standards are very high.

[Matt Cardona]

Absolutely.

[Cody Rhodes]

You have very high standards. And whereas for me, like, people were like, ah, the food at toothsomes, bro. It's chocolate.

[Matt Cardona]

All right, well, speaking bystanders.

[Cody Rhodes]

Okay, go ahead.

[Matt Cardona]

You and Brandi were telling me about this girl, tna, who was complaining about being single. Like, oh, I don't want to date a wrestler. I don't want to do that.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Matt Cardona]

And then next thing you know, we go on one date. We go on two dates. Her toothbrush is at my house. Now she's living with me. Now we have a brand new house, three dogs, a wonderful life. It's great. But, yeah, you and Brandy. Definitely.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Matt Cardona]

Started that whole thing. I gotta give you credit for that.

[Cody Rhodes]

I think the highlight of the wedding for me.

[Matt Cardona]

Okay.

[Cody Rhodes]

Was we had a, like, production rehearsal, which was just you going. I was wedding planner, actually. It was going, hey, they're gonna pop up over here behind the DJ booth. Act like you don't know where they're at.

[Matt Cardona]

Did we rehearse that?

[Cody Rhodes]

Well, no, she just told us. Okay.

[Matt Cardona]

Okay.

[Cody Rhodes]

So, like, me and Miss were, like, doing this.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

And then you popped up with a cryo.

[Matt Cardona]

That's right. Because it used to be. It was a nightclub. It was a nightclub turned into a wedding bed.

[Cody Rhodes]

Well, you had a vein in your head and you were like. You were blasting this thing.

[Matt Cardona]

This is How We do it by Mattel Jordan played. Yeah, yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

Honestly, was. I remember just looking at your face

[Matt Cardona]

thinking, what a moment.

[Cody Rhodes]

This is incredible. I have a question that's probably not a podcast question, but you. One of the men in the groom party sat next to me at the rehearsal dinner.

[Matt Cardona]

Okay.

[Cody Rhodes]

And had commentary on everything and ripped it to shreds.

[Matt Cardona]

Okay.

[Cody Rhodes]

And he was like my favorite. He saved the Anthony LaRocca dude.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah. That guy. Yeah. He's a degenerate.

[Cody Rhodes]

Nobody was safe.

[Matt Cardona]

He's great.

[Cody Rhodes]

Everybody who came up, he's like, oh, here we go. And I didn't know him. And I thought, like, this guy is

[Matt Cardona]

one of the best friends. Yeah, he's the best.

[Cody Rhodes]

Oh, man.

[Matt Cardona]

Classic.

[Cody Rhodes]

There's a lot about your wedding that we probably shouldn't touch. I remember just because there's so many stories, but I remember looking out on the crowd from the party.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

You see more when you're up there. You're not, you know.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

And everyone's in, like, you know, their nice clothes. And then there's Gallows. Exactly.

[Matt Cardona]

Drinking the baby.

[Cody Rhodes]

And he has the giant Vegas drink. And he's wearing, like, a chrome silver. Like, he looks like the guy used to be in the front row. Like, Windbreaker. He's wearing that and he's just slurping it like it's like a movie. And I thought, what a weird.

[Matt Cardona]

What a great. What a great wedding. Thank you, everyone who came.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah. We got socks.

[Matt Cardona]

Got socks. Yeah. Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

That was a. That was a. I still have my socks. I should have worn them today. That was an incredible wedding. I've been looking to find the best deal on concerts and sports tickets for date night, which is why I want to give the Sponsor of today's video, SeatGeek. A huge shout out. With over 35 million downloads, SeatGeek is the number one rated ticketing app. There are more than 70,000 events listed on SeatGeek, including concerts, sports festivals, and more. The NBA season is in full swing. Major League Baseball is around the corner, and right now you can get World cup tickets on SeatGeek. WWE has WrestleMania coming up, and SeatGeek has your back. Each ticket is rated on a scale from 1 to 10, so you know you're getting a good deal. Look for the green dots. Green means good, red means bad. Plus, every ticket is backed by SeatGeek's buyer guarantee. You can use code KODI10 for 10% off your next set of tickets at SeatGeek. That's 10% off any tickets with promo code KODY10. Make sure you click the link in the description to download the app, and the code will automatically be added to your account so you can use it later. Thank you, seatgeek. Okay. Chelsea.

[Matt Cardona]

Yes.

[Cody Rhodes]

How. What can you say about someone who's out there just blowing it away? She's just. She's just cooking.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah. She gets it. She knows how to, you know, maximize her minutes, whether it's a little backstage or a match.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Matt Cardona]

She doesn't say no to anything. You know, she does all these appearances.

[Cody Rhodes]

I mentioned that the other day.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah, you did. In that meeting. But she. She gets it. She understands that It's. It's way more than just what happens in that ring in between those ropes. Yeah. It's everything else. It's the media. It's the. The appearances. It's the autograph signings, it's the social media.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Matt Cardona]

It's the back. It's. It's everything wrapped into one.

[Cody Rhodes]

And I think, too, this is something I discovered watching her is the. It's the content within. So people think sometimes you're just checking a box, doing all these things. They don't realize it's the content within. So if I couldn't get what I wanted out in an interview, I now have another platform. Oh, I can slide it in there in terms of content and actual thing versus just the classic, I did it.

[Matt Cardona]

I think if you love wrestling, you just. You just can't stop. Right?

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Matt Cardona]

It's a lot harder to throw in the towel. It's a lot harder to quit because all. You know. Right. All you love.

[Cody Rhodes]

Well, I think, too, there's a natural talent for it. Right. And you both have this natural talent for storytelling, and it breaks your heart more and it makes you happy more because you care.

[Matt Cardona]

The highs are higher, the lows are lower.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yes, yes. You care so much. But I also think that I have seen people who I thought, yeah, no way, or I don't know. And the next thing you know, nope, Totally makes sense. Like, they're the. You learn something new every week. And some are slow learners. Like, I always considered myself a very slow learner. Just now putting this stuff into effect that I probably could have learned. Well, I was in the ring with Hunter. I was in the ring with Seamus. I was in the ring. And then finally being able to apply it this late, I think when given the time, which you have to give yourself the time because you have to stay in the game, it's incredible. But this is my question. You guys are. How's this working overseas? Are you getting two rooms or is there one room?

[Matt Cardona]

We're sharing a room.

[Cody Rhodes]

So you don't tell the company to get you two rooms?

[Matt Cardona]

We probably should.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yes. 100%.

[Matt Cardona]

Chelsea does not.

[Cody Rhodes]

There is.

[Matt Cardona]

We have different schedules.

[Cody Rhodes]

I saw y'.

[Matt Cardona]

All.

[Cody Rhodes]

I. I was making a joke and I got caught in the so like

[Matt Cardona]

Charles crossfire, you know, after my. So my debut. My re. Debut, so to speak, against Kit.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Matt Cardona]

You invite me to the bus, Have a little celebratory old Fashioned. Yeah, I want to enjoy. I finally made it back to wwe. It's been almost six years. Huge. I'm like, halfway through. Matt, get out of there. Get out of here. We gotta go.

[Cody Rhodes]

Like, didn't come on the bus.

[Matt Cardona]

Didn't even come on the bus.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yelled from the door. That's how I knew. Like, I had a chug.

[Matt Cardona]

My Old Fashioned. Yeah. I just want to enjoy a drink with my friend, you know?

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah. No, and I want.

[Matt Cardona]

I.

[Cody Rhodes]

That's going to be an adjustment. Basically. Yes. Yeah. You should tell the company. Always get you two rooms.

[Matt Cardona]

I need to tan. Yeah, she needs to tan my back.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Matt Cardona]

Like, I could do it by myself, but if she's there, it's easier.

[Cody Rhodes]

They're your partners. Is there something you do for her? Well, you know, like, you at home,

[Matt Cardona]

I do the dishes, you know.

[Cody Rhodes]

Okay. Yeah.

[Matt Cardona]

But you other partners in this.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Matt Cardona]

On the road, there's not much I can do for her.

[Cody Rhodes]

Are you excited to be back on the road with each other?

[Matt Cardona]

It seems we see each other a lot more now. Yeah. You know, when I was on the Indies, we barely saw each other because she was so busy with wwe and then I was busy doing my thing. So now we see each other. We're busy together, which is nice.

[Cody Rhodes]

And you have three dogs.

[Matt Cardona]

Three dogs. Three cats.

[Cody Rhodes]

Three cats, Yeah. I was. I remember. Kylo is cat one, right?

[Matt Cardona]

That's cat one, yes.

[Cody Rhodes]

And then it just developed into. Now you have this menagerie of zoo.

[Matt Cardona]

It's a zoo. Maybe a little baby one day, but not yet. Yeah, hopefully one day.

[Cody Rhodes]

A little wrestler baby.

[Matt Cardona]

Well, I don't know. I don't know about that.

[Cody Rhodes]

That's how it works.

[Matt Cardona]

We got to take the kids. I mean, you have kids now. Bring them to Disney.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah. Speaking of. Yeah. I don't think you want to skate this issue. I had kids.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

And because our times in life changed up.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

I get up earlier.

[Matt Cardona]

So do I.

[Cody Rhodes]

Because early. You don't.

[Matt Cardona]

Okay.

[Cody Rhodes]

Because we. We don't go to the parks ever with each other.

[Matt Cardona]

Well, it's not my fault.

[Cody Rhodes]

And then you always make this claim.

[Matt Cardona]

You invite me like I'm on my way to the park. I can't just drop what I'm doing for Cody Rhodes live there. Dude, I live there. But I have plans.

[Cody Rhodes]

Dude, here's how. Here's. I know it's a little bit of an aversion to children.

[Matt Cardona]

Okay.

[Cody Rhodes]

I asked you on getting on Mickey and Minnie's to hold Liberty when she was really little. You held her like this. I have a photo. You held her like you.

[Matt Cardona]

I'd like to see the photo.

[Cody Rhodes]

You couldn't believe.

[Matt Cardona]

This photo does not exist.

[Cody Rhodes]

It's a real photo.

[Matt Cardona]

It looks real. Put it in.

[Cody Rhodes]

It's a real photo. You're holding her like you don't know how to hold a child or like what children need. Like they like all this stuff we're about to do.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

And I. I've noticed you guys still like to do the. The adult park thing. You know what I'm saying? You're not about. You're not about that. That kid life because we don't go anymore.

[Matt Cardona]

We? Tori, like I said, you don't invite me until you're there.

[Cody Rhodes]

I. There was another incident that came up that I thought.

[Matt Cardona]

Wait, hold on. One time, correct me if I'm wrong. Once I was at Halloween Horror Nights with Chelsea. You were there on an rip tour. Didn't even invite me to go on it.

[Cody Rhodes]

You came on the tour, though, for a couple.

[Matt Cardona]

A couple. Couple months.

[Cody Rhodes]

I think we caught you.

[Matt Cardona]

No, you. I caught you.

[Cody Rhodes]

I think we caught you.

[Matt Cardona]

Well, I wasn't invited. It's not like I said, no, I won't go. And then you caught me there. You didn't invite me.

[Cody Rhodes]

Well, I thought it was because a group of my buddies, one time, they made you feel uncomfortable.

[Matt Cardona]

They were just kissing your butt the whole day. It was like the Cody show. I could be. I could be a part of that,

[Cody Rhodes]

but it was the air basketball.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

So for those who don't know, every now and then I'll look at somebody and I'll hold my hands like this. I said, take a shot, and they shoot the basket. It's an air basketball. It's a thing.

[Matt Cardona]

It's ridiculous.

[Cody Rhodes]

But you just weren't making any of the shots, you know, like, it's not my fault that you were not making any shots.

[Matt Cardona]

You move in the basket.

[Cody Rhodes]

Oh, Craig, Craig, take a shot. Swish, baby. See, it's easy.

[Matt Cardona]

You were moving the basket when I was.

[Cody Rhodes]

I don't know if I was, but I've heard you tell people, like, he's out there playing air basketball and the Cody show and whatever. You know, it's just a bunch of

[Matt Cardona]

guys that was a good time having.

[Cody Rhodes]

Having a good time paying for drinks, you know, like that.

[Matt Cardona]

Don't start this again.

[Cody Rhodes]

I'm just saying, you know, like, it's, you know, it's a thing.

[Matt Cardona]

It is not. Don't make it a thing.

[Cody Rhodes]

Okay. All right. Looking at WrestleMania in Vegas, looking beyond WrestleMania, do you have any immediate goals for yourself here? Obviously, we've talked about the big one and what you would say.

[Matt Cardona]

It's crazy to say because being back is such an accomplishment. Right. But at the same time, it feels like it was supposed to happen.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Matt Cardona]

You know, so it doesn't seem like that big of a deal, even though it is a huge deal.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Matt Cardona]

It seems like, well, I'm supposed to be here, and I hate. I hate to use the word, I deserve to be here. I think I've earned an opportunity to be back here. Right. And this is the ultimate opportunity, and I don't take that lightly. So any opportunity I get that I'm gonna do my best to be always ready and knock it out of the park.

[Cody Rhodes]

Would you ever do a tag team match with me?

[Matt Cardona]

Sure.

[Cody Rhodes]

But you wouldn't wear the. The jacket, right?

[Matt Cardona]

I would rather not wear this.

[Cody Rhodes]

You have a nightmare.

[Matt Cardona]

I do have a nightmare. Family jacket.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah. You kept yours?

[Matt Cardona]

I. One day I will sell it on ebay.

[Cody Rhodes]

Okay, great.

[Matt Cardona]

Or maybe one day I'll burn it for a story.

[Cody Rhodes]

Then there you go.

[Matt Cardona]

But I do think that, you know, I keep saying on WWE TV and social media, oh, you know, I went away and I reinvented myself. I don't Think the WWE Universe yet has seen who I was on the Indies.

[Cody Rhodes]

Sure.

[Matt Cardona]

I haven't shown them who I was. I wasn't this. This nice guy slapping hands. That's not who I was on the Independence. So when the time's right, I think you'll see that version of Matt Cardona, hopefully in wwe.

[Cody Rhodes]

I think, too, like, to your point about that side of you, it feels like it's naturally maybe heading that direction, but also it's a whole new version as well. There is what you got there and who that was the complete Matt Cardona, Deathmatch King, all these things. The King of the Andes, all that was one block.

[Matt Cardona]

Right.

[Cody Rhodes]

And I know for me, it's like the American Nightmare. That was a block, and then it became something else, which I'm so grateful. It evolves, you know, it evolves and you're still evolving again back to, like, the Chris Van Vliet question of, like, are you always in character? The thing that I got the most out of it was, well, at least I'm comfortable with who I am more than I've ever been.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah. I think for you, I would say it's the same for me. It just doesn't stop. Like, when they say cut on this and you go and you're doing whatever you're be thinking about Smackdown tomorrow or the next play or the next merch thing. And that's just how I'm wired, too. It just. It does not stop. So my brain's always going, do you.

[Cody Rhodes]

We've seen a lot of retirements lately. AJ Styles, retirement, John Cena, who's the next?

[Matt Cardona]

Hopefully not one of us.

[Cody Rhodes]

I don't want to see. I'm not loving these retirement ceremonies.

[Matt Cardona]

It's crazy how time really does fly. I mean, like, yeah, we met when we were 21, right?

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah. We're didn't like each other.

[Matt Cardona]

Did not like each other about a decade. Yeah. It wasn't until we found out we both like theme parks.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Matt Cardona]

That was it, guys. Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

I think. I think, too, probably one of the residual things of not liking each other was you were doing the Edgehead thing. Yeah, we were doing Legacy with Randy. And there was an always. Not even. Like, they weren't even in the same time. There was a competitive nature to how you would do things with him. How we would do things. Like, we'd get a little bit more. But then you guys got to be involved in the WrestleMania match. Right. So there was always this little bit of a competitiveness, and I always felt bad because a byproduct of that, like a residual byproduct, is your partner who has been your partner in business.

[Matt Cardona]

Sure.

[Cody Rhodes]

And like, yeah, shout out to him. Great partner. Great guy, great father.

[Matt Cardona]

Yes.

[Cody Rhodes]

I never liked him.

[Matt Cardona]

Right.

[Cody Rhodes]

Because of that whole thing. And I never really got that moment, like your. Your wedding and a few other moments. I never really got that moment to kind of sit down and hash it out with him. But he's. He's been such a big part of your career. Yeah, The. The retirements and things of that nature, they've really got me thinking as to what's next and. And who's next. And I don't want any of those. But also something that's similar to the picture. Right.

[Matt Cardona]

So the picture.

[Cody Rhodes]

The picture of all of us, which

[Matt Cardona]

I did not post, by the way.

[Cody Rhodes]

I thought you did.

[Matt Cardona]

That's a Cody lie that I posted that. I. I think Punk. Actually, I've come to find out I

[Cody Rhodes]

actually believe it was Punk who posted the photo. Which is fine, because he's the one who wanted take the photo. So this is you, me, Daniel Bryan, Beth Phoenix, Kofi Kingston. Punk.

[Matt Cardona]

Someone else, Evan Bourne. Whoa.

[Cody Rhodes]

What a flash.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

I'm getting old. Right? Okay, so there we are. This picture taken of. And there was it. What it was, was young guys on the varsity team. Basically, look at us. Look at. Look at us. I see it again. And I looked around the other day and thought, oh, it's kind of happening again. I looked at Oba, I looked at Javon, I looked at Trick, and. And I started thinking up. Not just showing up, not just being brought up. Being brought up. And you're in it now.

[Matt Cardona]

Yep. Which is sink or swim, baby.

[Cody Rhodes]

Sink or swim. And Sean seems to have developed them in such a way that I don't think any are sinking. You know, Like, Trick is already entertaining me. I'm already laughing at that. You being part of that. On the ground with it, Javon. There's a heart. Like, there's a connective tissue to that. Oba. A whole nother thing. But that's really unique to see. I hope we're good to them.

[Matt Cardona]

I think we will. I think we will be, because we're gonna be. Not that people were bad to us. It was a different time, different generation, you know, I don't know.

[Cody Rhodes]

Some were pretty bad. Well, it's like, also some who didn't have the right to be bad.

[Matt Cardona]

Sure.

[Cody Rhodes]

Undertaker can kick you in the ass, you know, Some others are like, what the.

[Matt Cardona]

But I would say, like, you know, like, now I could talk about my love for. For collecting toys. Like. Yeah. And it's not a big deal, but imagine if I went to Target on the road and got like a hardcore Holly figure and brought into the dressing room, say, Bob, can you sign this? What would have happened? Yeah, like, just think about it. Like, he would not have signed it. He would have.

[Cody Rhodes]

He would have signed it on the side after. After several weeks of. He would have signed it on the side.

[Matt Cardona]

I probably would have been kicked out of the locker room for bringing in that figure.

[Cody Rhodes]

Were you not kicked out of the locker room for the Internet title thing or just close? Because I know Hunter said if you brought that around in my day, we'd come kick your ass. Right.

[Matt Cardona]

Something to that effect.

[Cody Rhodes]

Okay. But that was the Internet Championship.

[Matt Cardona]

That's what I brought it out to pitch it, dude.

[Cody Rhodes]

So super important. Like, I'm so very, very glad. And. And if I could hit mention anything, WWE has a massive digital department. Massive. They used to not have a massive digital apartment. Everyone who's been on any type of ride, whether they were doing their own exclusive content, whether they're doing a vlog. The original. I remember telling this to Matt and Nick Jackson because what we would do on their show and they put all their heart and soul into it. And I was lucky to be a part of it. And they edited and produced it. But I remember explaining, like, hey, the forefathers of all this are Colt Cabana and you. Because your show was a fully produced. Again, invested in. I don't know if you want to speak to, like.

[Matt Cardona]

Well, it wasn't the first. It wasn't the first web show. There was like, Miz and Morrison had something, I think.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yes.

[Matt Cardona]

You know, had something. But I was the first one to do it myself. Film it myself, write it myself, edit it myself. I use the term fund funded myself, of course, use that term loosely. But yeah, I did it all on my own, but that was building the connection with the audience. It was all to get. I didn't want a YouTube show.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Matt Cardona]

I wanted the fans to connect to me, you know.

[Cody Rhodes]

And how many episodes did it get?

[Matt Cardona]

100 episodes.

[Cody Rhodes]

And a music video is. Is that included in the episode?

[Matt Cardona]

Oski is not included in his own thing. Yeah, standalone.

[Cody Rhodes]

Okay. That's a standalone standalone piece.

[Matt Cardona]

Listen, I'm very proud of that YouTube without that, you know, I would have been released in 2011 probably. And indies were a different time then. You get released in 2011, 2012. It's not like how it is today with the social media. And you can like Build this buzz and build your brand. Yeah. I would have been dead in the water.

[Cody Rhodes]

Does the show ever come back?

[Matt Cardona]

I don't think maybe we do like a reunion, right? It never comes back. Like, we.

[Cody Rhodes]

Reunion would be really. Reunion would be cool now, especially that everyone's seen it. And I feel like maybe even getting Triple H involved in the reunion a little bit.

[Matt Cardona]

I would love that.

[Cody Rhodes]

There's a lot of characters that were parodied and you climbing over the fence. I'm trying to get over.

[Matt Cardona]

I think a reunion be hot.

[Cody Rhodes]

I think. I think a reunion would be very hot. This reminds me. And I, of course, I should have started because this, this is all over the place because we have a relationship already. This reminds me of the fact that one of my last memories on my first run here was laying ass first in this ladder that had been broken on the side of the ring in, you know, at and T Stadium. And I got to watch you and your dad have a moment in the ring when you won the Intercontinental Championship. Which, that story I can't tell on this podcast because there's wrestlers who one day it'll happen.

[Matt Cardona]

Oh. Oh, the rehearsal.

[Cody Rhodes]

Boy, the rehearsal day is the day that's coming out.

[Matt Cardona]

One day.

[Cody Rhodes]

I have to say, for this book.

[Matt Cardona]

Yes.

[Cody Rhodes]

But the one person I. There's one. I gotta get a sign off on it. Yeah, he don't look great.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah,

[Cody Rhodes]

but that was Everyone. Everyone in that match was excited.

[Matt Cardona]

Almost everybody.

[Cody Rhodes]

Okay. That was excited. We're not, I'd say one, but fair enough in this sitting. But I, I, I got to watch that moment with you and your dad. And I remember thinking, like, I'm so happy for him. Your dad's been a big part of your journey throughout the business in terms of from the beginning. He. Does he introduce you to wrestling?

[Matt Cardona]

So, like, my earliest memories as a kid are watching wrestling. I don't remember the first match.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Matt Cardona]

Like, I just. Every memory involves wrestling. Wrestling figures going to shows, right? So my dad was always support. My mom too. But my dad's in my first indie show, like, holding the camcorder. Right. And then WrestleMania when I win that ladder match, like, Ziggler says, come on.

[Cody Rhodes]

Okay.

[Matt Cardona]

Just hops the guardrail. And he's been at so many shows that security knew who he was and didn't tackle him.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Matt Cardona]

And I'm on the top of the ladder, and I look down, I see him like, what the is he doing down here?

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Matt Cardona]

I get down there, I hug him. Big hug. He takes the WrestleMania cowboy hat, puts it on My head, I'm like, get this shit off me. You know, like looking back, it's like the greatest moment of my career. Sure. You know, and then when I got fired, I was actually looking at a photo of that thinking, all right, everything's gonna be okay.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Matt Cardona]

And everything was.

[Cody Rhodes]

Well, I always tell people when, if you had a spot like that and you had a moment like that, you can get back to one.

[Matt Cardona]

Yes.

[Cody Rhodes]

You know, you have your downs and you have your moments where you. Maybe you're not putting in the work, maybe you're not. Like it's. Maybe it's self. You caused it, you're. But if you ever did it, don't count that person out. Like, that's the classic. If you ever want to see what a man can do, ask him what he's done already.

[Matt Cardona]

Right.

[Cody Rhodes]

Same with a woman, of course. Like, you see what they've done. That's a prime example. You get 80,000 people who lost their mind over you pulling.

[Matt Cardona]

I think it was a hundred thousand, actually.

[Cody Rhodes]

Well, that one, that fire marshal kicked back on that one. Right. That's a great story, by the way. But. Yeah, no, I just, I remember thinking that was such a cool memory and it's so nice to be part of. And your dad, what was your arena that you'd go to growing up?

[Matt Cardona]

NASA Coliseum on Long island or Madison Square Garden?

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Matt Cardona]

Big Apple.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah. And favorite was Razor Ramon, one of your favorites?

[Matt Cardona]

Razor was definitely one of my favorites, of course, like, you know, grew up loving Hogan and macho, but Razor was my guy for sure.

[Cody Rhodes]

You have that great photo where he's holding the title, right?

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

He let you hold it? Yeah.

[Matt Cardona]

So I was at WrestleMania 10 MSG. He wins the title in a ladder match. IC title. And a couple of months later I took a photo with him and he's gives me his title, Right?

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Matt Cardona]

And then after I won a mania, I found him and we took the same photo, but he's holding my title. It's like no writer wrote that, you know, like that was real life.

[Cody Rhodes]

And that's, that's the good stuff.

[Matt Cardona]

It's. It's like I have both of those in my office, both those pictures.

[Cody Rhodes]

What'd you think of WCW growing up?

[Matt Cardona]

I loved it. Yeah. I was a W guy, New York guy.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah. But I watched it, of course. Yeah, yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

You're getting magazines and everything like that.

[Matt Cardona]

100. The figures, the galoobs. The figures weren't the best though.

[Cody Rhodes]

That. Well, they're in terms.

[Matt Cardona]

You have the vibrating figures. No, those were Horrible.

[Cody Rhodes]

In terms of your figure, like Pantheon and your. Is Greg still the Grail?

[Matt Cardona]

Greg the Hammer, Valentine, Rhythm and Blues. Yes, he's the. The number one. And.

[Cody Rhodes]

And for those who don't know, it was never released. Yes, it was.

[Matt Cardona]

From the Arts magazine. I think it's like 1991. Rockers are on the COVID Get all the new tag teams at Toys R Us, and then Rhythm of Blues doesn't come out.

[Cody Rhodes]

How many people were bidden for that? Greg, I've often accused you of creating the market for the.

[Matt Cardona]

There's a few out there, but I have the one from the actual ad from the shot.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah. You know, it's something nice that you do for me.

[Matt Cardona]

What's that?

[Cody Rhodes]

You always send me stuff. I would on paper, say I don't want, and then I get it, and I'm like, oh.

[Matt Cardona]

Nine times out of 10, you don't even say, thanks for sending this.

[Cody Rhodes]

No. Because we're real friends. I don't. I don't need.

[Matt Cardona]

I don't even know if you get.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah. Like, I have a dusty mold.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

That you recently sent to me.

[Matt Cardona]

That's a prototype.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah. And I thought, like, that's so cool. I put it up right by his box and stuff. You know, that's. That's always nice. You collect all your friends figures.

[Matt Cardona]

I do not.

[Cody Rhodes]

Not anymore.

[Matt Cardona]

I never did. You can never leave your friend on the pegs.

[Cody Rhodes]

You can't leave a friend on the battle. You can leave one on the peg, though.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah. I want to show that he's made it.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Matt Cardona]

It can't be a peg warmer.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah. You know who's your current peg warmers?

[Matt Cardona]

Ooh, I can't.

[Cody Rhodes]

We can bleep it out.

[Matt Cardona]

I can't bury people. Like, a peg warmer is something. If you go to Target or Walmart and there's just tons of that person. They're just. They're warming the pegs. Nobody wants to buy them. You can't leave your friend. You can't leave your friend on the peg. Yeah. You leave one. So, you know. Okay. Be popular.

[Cody Rhodes]

I know my peg warmers.

[Matt Cardona]

I will not say.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah. But I said, I think sometimes on the pegs, the legends. You got a young kid they may not know. That is their introduction to them. Perhaps. And also there's tons of figures. Our partners all do a great job.

[Matt Cardona]

It's unbelievable. And now you got to be careful because sometimes you might see a lot of you. You're not a peg warmer. You're a top. You know, top picks.

[Cody Rhodes]

Oh, okay.

[Matt Cardona]

Where they Just because if a kid just watches WWE for the first time.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Matt Cardona]

They have to go get Cody. You have to be on the pegs, you know, so you have to be there.

[Cody Rhodes]

Okay.

[Matt Cardona]

So they purposely stock you and some

[Cody Rhodes]

others over index in terms of. They over index certain.

[Matt Cardona]

It's literally called top picks topics. They just send guys.

[Cody Rhodes]

You know, my. My wife's store in Roswell, Pinkerton's, she has. She went up and like through the actual system.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

Through Mattel to get some figures. And it's so crazy to see Xavier woods and Tiffany Stratton and these figures at her store. That's really nice. Behind. Behind Greg Art. In thinking of Greg Valentine, your grail. Is there another one out there you're trying to get?

[Matt Cardona]

No, fortunately I have everything that I want. But there could certainly be a prototype out there that doesn't.

[Cody Rhodes]

That you don't know.

[Matt Cardona]

I don't know about.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah, right.

[Matt Cardona]

Like for instance, there's a diesel like the head I have and the artwork. But is there a prototype that's unreleased? Who knows if it's out there in terms of.

[Cody Rhodes]

Do you still look at your. I mean Randy Orton, of all people who you wouldn't think would be a toy addict, he was the one to tell me, hey, 400 or whatever it is on a pair of tights or 600, it's the best investment you'll ever make. New figure.

[Matt Cardona]

New figure.

[Cody Rhodes]

And I gotta be toyotic. Toyetic. But do you think about toyetic when you think about your gear?

[Matt Cardona]

Still 100. Especially like on the indies when I could control everything literally. Like I have my own toy company.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Matt Cardona]

I would plan out.

[Cody Rhodes]

Put it there.

[Matt Cardona]

I would plan out outfits, you know, and drop the figure like on an indie show right away. There was one show I came out a Jurassic Park Jeep in Jurassic park inspired gear.

[Cody Rhodes]

There it is important to ask.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah, inspired. But when I come out in the Jeep, the lower. There's a lower third on any show promoting my new figure that has been planned for months.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Matt Cardona]

I don't know if I can do this up here. But on the indies when I free reign, I was able to do all that stuff and always plan ahead.

[Cody Rhodes]

I think one thing I always bumped with you a little bit on. But you liked. And I also liked. But I just don't. I didn't know if I knew how to go about doing it was you. You liked a little bit of inspired. A little bit of cosplay, like.

[Matt Cardona]

Sure. Winking a nod.

[Cody Rhodes]

Winking a nod.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah. If you know, you know.

[Cody Rhodes]

But if you have you discovered. Because I tell people all the time at this point, I'm like, don't cosplay you. You.

[Matt Cardona]

Yes.

[Cody Rhodes]

If they're coming. Look dressed as you. You've now no longer need to dress as others do you feel you've, you've kind of hit that, that point where those inspired moments are, are.

[Matt Cardona]

I, I think they're a thing of the past. Unless something comes up, you know, like you're doing some cool stuff, like with the actual Street Fighter movie. If you did some Street Fighter official gear, I don't think that'd be beneath you to be promoting the movie that you're in. You know what I'm saying?

[Cody Rhodes]

Wow.

[Matt Cardona]

That's okay.

[Cody Rhodes]

A lesson from you right here and there. I wanted to ask you this. Speaking of movies again, this is going to be the most all over the map podcast in existence because you are a big Star wars fan. I am, and we've talked about. I think I didn't consider you a big Star wars fan, but then you have one on me.

[Matt Cardona]

Okay. What's that?

[Cody Rhodes]

Galactic Star Cruiser.

[Matt Cardona]

That's right.

[Cody Rhodes]

You have that on me. I never went.

[Matt Cardona]

I went.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah, you went.

[Matt Cardona]

One of the greatest experiences ever.

[Cody Rhodes]

Do you feel so bold as to rank the movies, like, all the movies? The nine main movies? Yeah. I mean, you can count the other.

[Matt Cardona]

I'm not gonna rank them all here.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah. Can you, can you give me your top two?

[Matt Cardona]

I'll give my top two.

[Cody Rhodes]

Give me your top two.

[Matt Cardona]

Okay. But you have to start with the new hope. Like, you can't. How could that be not your number one? Because without that, there's nothing else.

[Cody Rhodes]

It's not my number one, but I agree. Okay. If you're looking at it from that

[Matt Cardona]

criteria, I'm crazy with number two.

[Cody Rhodes]

What's number two?

[Matt Cardona]

Force Awakens.

[Cody Rhodes]

I don't think you're crazy.

[Matt Cardona]

I love it.

[Cody Rhodes]

You're picking very similar movies.

[Matt Cardona]

I love it. I do not. I'll say this spoiler. I do not love 8, 9.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Matt Cardona]

Like, those are my bottom two.

[Cody Rhodes]

You. You had a fit.

[Matt Cardona]

Fit.

[Cody Rhodes]

You had a fit over Luke.

[Matt Cardona]

Oh, he threw the lightsaber.

[Cody Rhodes]

You had a.

[Matt Cardona]

The whole Force Awakens. That's what this moment. Ray put out the saber, Luke grabs it. Then the next movie starts, just throws it away.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Matt Cardona]

Disrespectful.

[Cody Rhodes]

I, I, I'm a huge fan of Last Jedi, so I had to kind of just listen to you and hear it and let you, you know that, that fandom is very aggressive.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

In terms of what they like, even

[Matt Cardona]

Disney now is going back. They're. They're changing Galaxy's Edge because I heard

[Cody Rhodes]

a little old coming in, right?

[Matt Cardona]

Well, because enough people didn't like 7 and 8.

[Cody Rhodes]

Well, let's.

[Matt Cardona]

Or 7, 8 and I don't know

[Cody Rhodes]

if it's that so much. Do you know that Liberty doesn't know Yoda?

[Matt Cardona]

What are you doing as a father?

[Cody Rhodes]

She just knows Grogu.

[Matt Cardona]

You don't have her watch.

[Cody Rhodes]

It wouldn't matter to her. It's Grogu. She's 4.

[Matt Cardona]

Yoda is Grogu.

[Cody Rhodes]

She's 4.

[Matt Cardona]

In her head. Yeah, in her head.

[Cody Rhodes]

He's just another. He's another Grogu. He's old Grogu.

[Matt Cardona]

That makes sense.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah. Like time does go on. You know what I'm saying?

[Matt Cardona]

You got to evolve.

[Cody Rhodes]

We have a disagreement often about. You like to keep things you want back to the future to come back.

[Matt Cardona]

I think it's coming back, right?

[Cody Rhodes]

I want. I want them.

[Matt Cardona]

Oh, because Fast and Furious did so well.

[Cody Rhodes]

I want them ripping the ground out and new.

[Matt Cardona]

You don't care.

[Cody Rhodes]

You.

[Matt Cardona]

You have no sentimental.

[Cody Rhodes]

I. I am. I am ruthless.

[Matt Cardona]

Listen, I get it. Like Disney. I get it. It's not a museum. Change things up. I get it. But you can pay respect to the. The history. We do that here in wwe.

[Cody Rhodes]

Dude, put King Kong in the Gold Room there on Mom. There he is. I got it. It's the greatest ride of all time.

[Matt Cardona]

Mom's a great ride.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah, but when it's time.

[Matt Cardona]

When it's time. I agree. When it's time, it's time. But sometimes things are timeless.

[Cody Rhodes]

Okay, fair enough, fair enough, fair enough.

[Matt Cardona]

Difference between being outdated and timeless. Like I think.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah, but you going to Universal and getting openly hot. That the DeLorean. Is that what it's called?

[Matt Cardona]

It's by the bush, you know. Come on. You know what it's called? It's by the bushes. It's by the bushes.

[Cody Rhodes]

And having to take a picture for in front of it every time.

[Matt Cardona]

Why is it by the bush bushes?

[Cody Rhodes]

I mean, where else is it going to be?

[Matt Cardona]

Right in the middle, front and center photo op for me.

[Cody Rhodes]

For you. What about those kids who are coming to see the Minions and get banana pop?

[Matt Cardona]

That's a different area.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yes, but I'm saying, like, you got to lead with stuff they like. Time does move on. I agree, I agree. Sometimes can be timeless. My guest here, Matt Cardona, he is indulging in the Wheatley American Vodka with me. I like to consider myself and Wheatley American Vodka the dream Team. I asked everyone who comes on here, what is your Dream Team? What makes up your Dream Team? I'll give you a couple so you don't have to go out of your, like, think crazy about it. We've had everything. We've had animals. We've had whole sports teams.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

We've had. Some people just said Survivor Series, Team War Games, Team Zombie Apocalypse. Put a number on it, whatever you want it to be. Who is on your Dream Team? Who's coming with you?

[Matt Cardona]

Dream Team. Do what, though?

[Cody Rhodes]

That's a great question, actually.

[Matt Cardona]

Are we going to theme parks?

[Cody Rhodes]

No, I'd say Dream Team because something you brought up, and I didn't want to be mushy, if that's the word, or I didn't want to be emotional.

[Matt Cardona]

Okay.

[Cody Rhodes]

But you brought up something. You said you came back to be WWE champ.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

And like, I think it's okay with cameras here to tell you. I hope. I hope that happens.

[Matt Cardona]

Oh, thank you, bud.

[Cody Rhodes]

But also, like, as your friend, I'd like to hold you to it.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

Because you were very much of a hold me to it. And you were a very celebratory person in terms of I would do something. And I knew it was, this is big.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

Like, oh, I just beat Brock Lesnar in Puerto Rico. Like, this is big. And I remember you telling me, like, you're always just there for it. Yeah. So I'd hope to hold you to it and I appreciate. I hope that happens. A World Championship. WWE Championship. A World Champion within wwe. I think the flagships.

[Matt Cardona]

Yes.

[Cody Rhodes]

Of these shows. When I say your Dream Team, in your career, as you move forward, who is essential? Like Wheatley American Vodka is to me. Who is essential for you?

[Matt Cardona]

So we have. How many people are picking?

[Cody Rhodes]

I'd say four or five or wwe. You can, buddy. We've. We've been all over the map.

[Matt Cardona]

I'm gonna say. Okay, if we do. Let's say five people, I'll pick Chelsea Green.

[Cody Rhodes]

Number one.

[Matt Cardona]

Need that. Number one.

[Cody Rhodes]

Number one.

[Matt Cardona]

You know I'll throw you in there, Cody. You know you're politic for me. Gave me a.

[Cody Rhodes]

Get my glasses on. Yeah.

[Matt Cardona]

Hey, we have the TNA partnership now. I'll say Brian Myers, somebody who's love that. I can get to know him from day one.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah. I love that.

[Matt Cardona]

From. From NYWC to winning tag team titles to podcast. Major. Rest of our podcast. Collect major.com. lower third.

[Cody Rhodes]

We'll do. We'll do all of it.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah. Let me get. Since we also have the TNA partnership, Little Nick Nemeth. The wanted man.

[Cody Rhodes]

Oh, man. Okay.

[Matt Cardona]

The wanted man.

[Cody Rhodes]

So you've got Ziggler, you've got Myers, you've got me, you've got Chelsea.

[Matt Cardona]

And I can't believe I'm saying this, but awesome. The Miz. I'm throwing the Miz in there. The Miz can do it all. He's always there if I need to pick his brain about something. You know, sometimes he won't respond to a text for a couple days.

[Cody Rhodes]

I consider myself one of the worst texters ever.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah. And you're a big, like, Levon Red guy.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

Also, some people. I set the profile so they know.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

Like, some people like me.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yours does not come up as red. It does. Yes. Oh, okay. All right. Yeah. That's a great team.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

That is a great team.

[Matt Cardona]

I don't know what this team is for exactly, but, yeah, sure, I'll say.

[Cody Rhodes]

You probably need a. I'm not telling you who to put on your team, but I would put a younger. A young guy.

[Matt Cardona]

Then I would say if we're gonna throw a little bonus. Kit Wilson. I always say, in like, 2011, 2012, the car would have been me, Ms. Morrison, Ziggler and Kit.

[Cody Rhodes]

Oh, my God.

[Matt Cardona]

Kit wants it.

[Cody Rhodes]

He would have been driving.

[Matt Cardona]

He would have been driving.

[Cody Rhodes]

He would have been driving, but he

[Matt Cardona]

would have been carrying our bags. But he wants it.

[Cody Rhodes]

He.

[Matt Cardona]

You could just tell. He puts in the extra effort.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Matt Cardona]

I've seen his, like, his. His PowerPoints.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Matt Cardona]

And he goes to the gym.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Matt Cardona]

Eats clean. I like that.

[Cody Rhodes]

He lives it.

[Matt Cardona]

He lives. He's a pro wrestler dude.

[Cody Rhodes]

But one thing I want to point out to you, and this is probably the most important, like, discovery for. For me today, and I hope you know this.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

You do all the right things. Right. And, you know, all the right things to do, and you put in the effort, but also you do them for the right reason. It's not just, like, you know how this works. It's not. It's not.

[Matt Cardona]

You get the math advice for the sake of.

[Cody Rhodes]

Right. It's not a math problem either. It doesn't work that way. Sometimes, like, the industry is crazy.

[Matt Cardona]

I'm glad you took those off.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah. Things happen. Things. It's. We get lucky. We. Things like that happen. I just hope you know that it's not just the fact that you check those boxes. It's the fact that you're very good at what you do. And it's also the fact you're great at what you do. It's the Fact that you connect with the audience, which you don't do it to sell them. No, you don't do it to. Oh, I remember it makes me so mad when somebody. Oh, you got a fan for life. That wasn't why I did it, though. I did it because I was feeling it.

[Matt Cardona]

I want the fan for life, but not because I want their money for life. I want their support for life. I want them to be on the journey with me. The ups and downs for life. Like, if you're a fan of Zack Ryder, Matt Cardona.

[Cody Rhodes]

Yeah.

[Matt Cardona]

You've been on one hell of a. Oh, my God. You know, I'm saying, like, with more highs and lows. Yes. With a lot more to come.

[Cody Rhodes]

A lot more to come.

[Matt Cardona]

Like, you were like, when I. That GCW deathmatch. Like, the amount, like, there was a small portion of, like, Matt Cardone, Zack Ryder fans who came and they took this giant picture on, like, the New York. I'm sorry, the New Jersey boardwalk, like,

[Cody Rhodes]

had to be fighting their way out of that.

[Matt Cardona]

Oh, yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

Oh, man. There's a jingle here again. We're here at the Buffalo Trace Distillery, thanks to Wheatley American Vodka. I'm gonna play this for you.

[Matt Cardona]

Okay.

[Cody Rhodes]

And I'm ask you to replace one word in it.

[Matt Cardona]

Okay.

[Cody Rhodes]

Watching Moscow always get the mule.

[Matt Cardona]

Vodka this good is an American jewel.

[Cody Rhodes]

Wheatley so good I drink it neatly.

[Matt Cardona]

That's our.

[Cody Rhodes]

Our.

[Matt Cardona]

Yep.

[Cody Rhodes]

I gotcha. That's our.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

Our. Our. Our tag there.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

If you could replace that. Wheatley so good I drink it well.

[Matt Cardona]

Matt Cardona is the complete. So obviously I would drink it completely.

[Cody Rhodes]

Cheers to that.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

Nailed it. One last thing for me. To you. Well, two things. Two things. I love you.

[Matt Cardona]

I love you, too. Hey, when are we doing a little dinner date at California Grill, buddy? I. You.

[Cody Rhodes]

You shame the fact that I get there and tell you. I. You have.

[Matt Cardona]

I mean, you're busy. You're not that big.

[Cody Rhodes]

You could tell me, like, I am that, but you can tell. So when I tell you know when

[Matt Cardona]

you're gonna be there in a week, you're not just going the day before.

[Cody Rhodes]

Trust me, it comes up. Also, Cali Grill is right there. Like, you live there, dude. So, yes, my expectations of you coming are a little. But, like, whenever.

[Matt Cardona]

Yeah.

[Cody Rhodes]

When it's. It's owed for sure.

[Matt Cardona]

Okay.

[Cody Rhodes]

It's old. But one last thing. Just stay where you're at.

[Matt Cardona]

Oh, no, bro.

[Cody Rhodes]

Take a shot. There we go.

[Matt Cardona]

I'm not taking the shot. I'm not taking the shot. I'm begging you. Oh, thanks, buddy. Appreciate you.

[Cody Rhodes]

Oh, man.

[Matt Cardona]

Wow.

[Cody Rhodes]

That on? What do you want to talk about? My friend Matt Cardona. Thank you. So.

[Matt Cardona]

Thank you. Stitch Fix Shopping is hard. Let's talk about it.

[Cody Rhodes]

I don't have time to shop, so I buy all my clothes where I buy my seafood. I just want someone to tell me

[Matt Cardona]

what shirt goes with what pants. I just want jeans that fit. Stitch Fix makes shopping easy.

[Cody Rhodes]

Just show your size, style, and budget,

[Matt Cardona]

and your stylist sends personalized looks right to your door. No subscription required, plus free shipping and returns. Man, that was easy. I look good. Stitch Fix Online personal styling for everyone. Take your style quiz today at stitchfix.

[Cody Rhodes]

Com.