The Undertaker

Summary

What Do You Wanna Talk About? with Cody Rhodes

Episode: The Undertaker
Date: January 21, 2026

Episode Overview

In this engaging and candid episode, Cody Rhodes welcomes wrestling legend The Undertaker (Mark Calaway) onto his podcast bus for an in-depth, unscripted conversation. The two icons trade never-before-heard stories from their time on the road, reflect on evolving locker room cultures, analyze wrestling psychology, and revisit career-defining moments—including insight into WrestleMania 40’s headline match. The discussion is infused with humor, humility, and reverence for the craft, offering a true masterclass on wrestling, showmanship, and the enduring bonds between performers.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Challenges (and Joys) of Podcasting

Timestamps: 01:29–03:10

• Cody asks The Undertaker about his experience as a podcast host.
• Undertaker admits:
  “It has its moments...when you get that guest that doesn’t want to talk or is not a storyteller, it can be like pulling a tooth.” (02:06, Undertaker)
• Praise flows from Undertaker for Cody’s storytelling skills and ability to “take people on the ride.”

2. Wrestling Lore: The Gargling Whiskey Tradition

Timestamps: 04:43–08:18

• Cody inquires about the infamous 'gargling whiskey' ritual for locker room newcomers.
• Undertaker dispels myths, clarifying he never enforced it, but explains its origins: it started as a way for wrestlers to prove they hadn’t tossed their drinks instead of actually consuming them—“You had to gargle so that we knew you had the shot. That was the original origin of it.” (06:48, Undertaker)
• Cody reflects on the intimidating but meaningful initiation traditions and differences between legends and other personalities on tour.

3. Locker Room Camaraderie, Discipline, and Road Life

Timestamps: 09:53–12:42

• Both recall the intense, family-like bond formed on long tours (“17-day loops”).
• Undertaker emphasizes the necessity of keeping your circle together and the responsibility of handling oneself professionally at all times:
  “One person screws up, you’ve all screwed up.” (10:43, Undertaker)
• Stories abound of the necessity, and sometimes difficulty, of enforcing standards and grounding those who went too far.

4. Favorite Tours and International Experiences

Timestamps: 12:27–16:06

• Cody asks Undertaker about favorite overseas locations—Australia is “always incredible, energetic,” as is the UK and Germany.
• They recount a particularly grueling tour schedule, culminating in a million-dollar house in Sydney, and Taker’s locker room speech after a slew of lackluster, “jet-lagged” performances. “I ended up cutting a promo on our crew…most of them had never experienced the arena so empty you could throw a handful of rocks and not hit anybody.” (15:21, Undertaker)

5. Teaching Moments in the Ring: The “Hot Tag” and “Taker Spot”

Timestamps: 18:06–27:52

• Cody describes the “honeymonster tour” and gleefully recalls Undertaker's live-event-only, high-octane hot tag sequence—which Taker reveals was done as a teachable moment for younger talent: “That was all it was for me. That’s the best way for me to teach—to let you experience what a hot tag should be like.” (21:33, Undertaker)
• Discussion turns to wrestling psychology, the importance of live events for “finding out what works,” preventing injuries, and building true team chemistry.

6. Evolving the Craft: Lessons from the Past and Forward-Thinking

Timestamps: 27:52–29:45

• Cody reminisces about working different independent circuits and the importance—often overlooked—of rhythm, chemistry, and the repetitions granted by house shows:
  “To get a good flow with people is important. I [definitely] miss them.” (30:22, Cody)
• Undertaker echoes that striking the right balance between travel, work, and innovation is vital, yet live events remain a crucial laboratory for new ideas.

7. Heroes and Inspirations: Childhood Favorites

Timestamps: 30:51–33:21

• Cody quizzes Undertaker on his wrestling idols growing up—Taker surprises with Mil Mascaras as a childhood favorite, crediting his mystique and commitment to kayfabe. Story: Taker finds Mascaras showering with his mask on, reinforcing the importance of protecting the character.

8. Houston Wrestling & Territorial Stories

Timestamps: 33:21–37:39

• Vivid tales of attending Paul Boesch’s Houston Wrestling and the truly intimidating presence of The Sheik. “He convinced me he was gonna come over that barricade and get me, man.” (37:12, Undertaker)
• Cody and Taker discuss the past culture of fans seeking visceral catharsis through the spectacle, a marked difference from much of today’s fandom.

9. Chemistry and the Intangibles: Working With Greats

Timestamps: 39:06–41:33

• Cody and Taker analyze what made Shawn Michaels such a next-level performer—“He had that dog in him.” (40:03, Undertaker)
• Discussion of Tully Blanchard, Booker T, and fun stories about working “stiff” or with unpredictable moments in the ring.

10. The Art of Selling (And Not Selling)

Timestamps: 42:00–44:02

• Amusing anecdotes about The Rock checking himself on the Tron while delivering strikes, and the realness/surreality of performing under such visibility.

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11. WrestleMania 40: The Magical Moment

Timestamps: 45:15–53:03

• Cody sets up the emotional importance of Taker's surprise appearance and pivotal spot during the WrestleMania 40 main event:
  “People look at that, it’s the greatest five minutes in wrestling history… But that moment, I describe it as actual magic.” (46:02–48:01, Cody)
• Undertaker shares humble reflections: “The only reason I moved so fast is because you don’t want to screw that up… You gotta be like, I can’t do the reveal like, ‘Hold up, guys! Old man’s moving in here.’” (51:45, Undertaker)
• He reveals he was less than a year removed from double knee replacement surgery during this moment.
• Both express heartfelt gratitude for the chance to honor the history and the future in that spot.

12. Evolving Pro Wrestling: AAA, Lucha Libre, and Fusion

Timestamps: 53:52–56:20

• Undertaker details his current work with AAA in Mexico—hoping to blend Lucha Libre’s legacy, culture, and family traditions with enhanced production and storytelling standards. “I’m taking the best of Lucha Libre and the best of what I know and trying to mold them together.” (54:10, Undertaker)
• Affirms he isn’t trying to make AAA like WWE, but to honor the unique aspects while evolving the product.

13. The Secret to Making Big-Time Gimmicks Work

Timestamps: 56:20–62:15

• Cody notes how modern young wrestlers want “proper lighting” and overblown presentation, but few can inhabit a character the way Taker (or Bray Wyatt) could.
• The Undertaker shares the key: “You have to believe, to a certain degree, that you are that gimmick.” (58:14, Undertaker)
• Emphasizes commitment, calculated public interactions, and adapting the character to every context.

14. Taker on Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels; Early Career Stories

Timestamps: 62:15–67:20

• Cody asks who Taker preferred wrestling—Bret or Shawn:
  “I probably had the very best chemistry with Shawn… But Bret forced me—to get me out of the comfort zone… to have really, really good matches.” (63:32–64:52, Undertaker)
• Taker credits Bret with pushing him beyond just “Frankenstein” style, forcing evolution and depth.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• The importance of storytelling:
  “You’ve mastered that. You gotta take them on the ride, you gotta put them in the scenario.” (03:01–03:10, Undertaker to Cody)

• On locker room rituals:
  “You want to drink with us, that’s fine. If you don’t, you don’t have to. But the gargling… it’s so we knew you took the shot.” (05:48–06:48, Undertaker)

• On discipline:
  “One person screws up, you’ve all screwed up…” (10:43, Undertaker)

• On the “hot tag” sequence:
  “That was all it was for me. The best way for me to teach is to let you experience what a hot tag should be like.” (21:33, Undertaker)

• Reflecting on magic at WrestleMania 40:
  “I went like this, and when you winked, the lights went out. And I remember thinking ‘he’s shoot fucking magic.’” (48:01, Cody)

• The secret of building believable characters:
  “As corny as it sounds, you have to believe, to a certain degree, that you are that gimmick.” (58:14, Undertaker)

• On Bret vs. Shawn:
  “I could lose a bet—either one of them… But Bret forced me to learn how to work within the gimmick and have really, really good matches.” (63:17–64:51, Undertaker)

• Dream Team, Undertaker-style:
  “My dream team… my brother Kane, Shawn, Kurt Angle, Andre the Giant.” (88:53–89:47)

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Other Standout Segments (with Timestamps)

• The Honey Monster Tour & Teaching Psychology: 18:06–27:52
• Locker room fights: Big Show vs. Khali: 76:49–79:13
• Royal Rumble 2008: Undertaker puts over young Cody: 82:47–87:54
• Debut at Survivor Series, working with Dusty Rhodes: 68:03–71:58

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Final Thoughts

Cody and The Undertaker’s chemistry, mutual respect, and shared warmth for the wrestling business illuminate this episode. Every story, from bar rituals to WrestleMania main events, serves to highlight why these two—and the brotherhood they reflect—stand as pillars of the industry. Undertaker’s humility, generosity, and continued passion for mentoring shine throughout. It’s both a historical document and a guide to the soul of wrestling.

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Next: Catch Part Two, with Cody visiting The Undertaker’s podcast.

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Dream Team (Undertaker’s Picks, 88:53–89:47):

• Kane
• Shawn Michaels
• Kurt Angle
• Andre the Giant

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This summary skips all advertisements and non-content sections, focusing solely on the rich wrestling stories, lessons, and candid perspectives from two of wrestling’s most influential figures.

Transcript

[A]

Dinner time. It's more than just a meal. It's when work comes to a halt, where macaroni masterpieces are made and little moments turn into lasting memories. With the blue Cash preferred card, you can get 6% cash back at US supermarkets so you can bring home the flavors that bring everyone together. We did say everyone make the special moments even more rewarding. Learn [e-mail] Explore BCP terms and cash back cap Apply with blue Cash preferred Foreign.

[B]

Nightmare Cody Rhodes. Welcome to what do you want to talk about a fanatics and WWE original production. Today my guest is a hall of famer. It's the phenom, it's the dead man, it's the judge. It's one of wrestling's Mount Rushmore. He also has a podcast on this wonderful fanatics channel. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome everything champion multi time everything champion, the Undertaker.

[C]

Oh, well, I appreciate the introduction. I don't know if I'm going to live up to all that, but.

[B]

Well, we should tell them too. This is technically. Unless we just have nothing.

[C]

Right?

[B]

This is technically supposed to be part one.

[C]

Yeah. Right. We're going to do a home and home. Yeah. Off site home and home. But yeah.

[B]

And then I'll be coming to your.

[C]

Your podcast.

[B]

How are you enjoying hosting a podcast?

[C]

Oh, it sucks.

[A]

Could you try again?

[B]

He said, oh my gosh, is that you?

[C]

He said, he said, how do you like doing a podcast? That's off. I don't know why that.

[B]

Oh, big pop for. I didn't get that. Who's Alexa is rocking here.

[C]

Here we go. Just throw it in a chair.

[B]

I will say it almost feels mystical in a sense that I asked you a question and then a voice just.

[C]

Just started randomly speaking from my pocket.

[B]

Part of the lore and the mythos. As, as I was asking, do you enjoy doing the podcast?

[C]

It has its moments.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah, it really does. You know when you, when you enter discussion or you're in a conversation and you, you're hitting it off and you know that's always fun.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

But man, sometimes when you, when you get that guest that doesn't want to talk or is not a storyteller. Right.

[B]

You want to name names.

[C]

I don't want to name names. But you know, it can be like pulling a tooth. And so, yeah, you know, when this was, you know, brought to me like, well, you can do home and home, I was like, yeah, because I always. You're a great storyteller.

[B]

Thank you.

[C]

Yeah. No, really, I enjoy, like, I don't follow you Know, I don't follow much other podcast or listening, but I always kind of catch you because you're. You're very detail oriented in your stories, and that's such a key part of bringing somebody into what you do.

[B]

Sure.

[C]

So. And you've mastered that. And it's.

[B]

You got to take them on the ride.

[C]

You got to take them on the ride.

[B]

You got to put them in.

[C]

Yeah. You got to put them in the. In the scenario.

[B]

So, yeah, there's a. I'm sure you saw it. And if I asked anyone else who is coming on this podcast, I actually am doubtful they would. You've seen the man who Shot Liberty Balance, right? What is the. Is it the Jimmy Stewart quote when the fact becomes legend? Print the legend.

[C]

Exactly.

[B]

So my. My whole thought, it's. I've been labeled by some of my peers as what comes up as a Cody lie. An exaggeration, a bit of a hyperbole. To me, it's just a legend.

[C]

Right.

[B]

I don't need, you know, like, let's give them the sexiest version of the story.

[C]

Exactly.

[B]

Which is fun. You mentioned hitting it off with people. We. We tend to have something that helps, in a sense. This podcast is Wheatley American Vodka. I have the Wheatley American Mule. I know you have something special. What do you have?

[C]

This is the dead man's draft. Wow. Yeah.

[B]

All right. Well, cheers to that. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much. Part 1. In the spirit of that toast, I have a question that I don't think you would think that I would ask you, but I have to know because I've gotten an answer from Cena and I've talked to others about it. But why on earth. Why on earth the tradition of gargling whiskey? And where did this come from? And to set this up. To set this up, if you got called to the bar, this is when I first came on board. 2008, 2009, 10, whatever it may be. And you got the call. Hey, taker would like to see you. You got up and you went to the bar, and then there would be a thing of whiskey and just a shot glass. And you would be, you know, hey, this is part of your kind of indoctrination into the crew and into the team. But you would have to gargle it, which, again, I do it. It's now I am expecting it of others. But what are the origins of gargling whiskey?

[C]

So you may be a little disappointed in all this. Okay. And I. I'm not one. I'm not one to make Someone gargle. That's not. That's my deal. I take the shot. I drink the shot.

[B]

In fairness, you didn't make anything happen.

[C]

Well, right. No, You're. You're invited over. It's kind of. It is. It is. It is a welcome, but, you know, that's a. That's a big misnomer. Like, oh, you know, oh, man, Tiger told me to come over and drink. I had to drink. No, it's not that. I don't ever make anybody make anybody do anything they didn't want to do, but it is. It was kind of a kid, come on in here. You know, you're proving yourself, and if you want to drink with us, that's fine. If you don't, you know, you don't have to. The gargling happens. So we go back to when business wasn't quite so good.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

All right. And I've been on both ends of the spectrum. And so for me, gargling happened because the guys on top, when you go to the bar, those guys were making a little bit more money than everybody else was. Right. And there was a struggle.

[B]

So.

[C]

A lot of times, like, they want. You want to be part of it, but you don't want to. You don't want to drink all that whiskey because whiskey, you know, is tough. Right. So what would end up happening is a lot of people would. They would. Quick shot, or they throw it, you know, pour it on the floor and then act like they're drinking. Right. And, you know, that's. That's money, right? Yes, that's people's money. You. You had to choose whether or not, like, all right, I'm gonna go to the bar and have drinks tonight.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Knowing that it's gonna affect your everyday life. Really. Yeah. Right. So there was a lot of people that were, like, tossing shots, and they got busted for it. So then it kind of became a deal where. All right, you got a gargle so that, you know that you. You've had this shot. Yeah. That was the original origins of it. Sure. And then I think it just carried on through the years is like.

[B]

Sure.

[C]

You know? So then it kind of became a machismo thing, too, where, you know, so I was never. I never gargled, and I never made anybody gargle or. No. You know, it's like, here, you want this shot? Have the shot. When I.

[B]

When I went down, because you. You brought up that you never, you know, made anyone drink or anything like that. And I can double down on the fact that it Was actually. You didn't do anything. You were there sitting next to it. It was everyone else.

[C]

Oh, yeah, Who's.

[B]

All right. This is how you do it. You go up there, you're gonna take the shot, and then, you know, maybe have a conversation. It was almost like you're meeting a foreign dignitary. You're gonna go up there. But then also, it was like, once you did it, you go float around. You hang out.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

See what's going on. It was always much more fun not to bury this person, but it was always much more fun when you got the call from you or you got to have that moment with you, Especially during that time in my career versus when it was over. Because when it was over, God bless it, you'd be over. With Kyota and Kyoto, the same level of energy, like, oh, let's get more to drink. But also, it starts to get a little dangerous.

[C]

You know, you're not.

[B]

You're not necessarily learning about wrestling anymore as more. You're just figuring out how to get out of this.

[C]

Survival.

[B]

Yeah. And I thought because I went to South Africa the first tour I did with the company, and I didn't do anything. Right. I didn't sleep on the plane. I didn't know what to do on the way over. We did the show, and I went down to the bar, because I just thought that was okay. Everybody will be down there, right? So I'll go down the bar. Went down the bar. And it was actually just like this, but it was Sandman. And I always had a good relationship with Sandman. Very nice man to me. But I asked him. I go, oh, well, I should ask him what he wants, right? I should get him a drink. That's the exchange here. I asked him what he wants, and I'll never forget, he just, ow. I'll get four vodkas. Cool. All right. Because.

[C]

Four vodkas.

[B]

Yeah, so that's. I'm gonna get you the four, but I'm obviously not gonna get four for myself. And I got four vodkas, and I'm already thinking, like, well, I'm not getting myself one, because this is a ridiculous request. He SL. Slammed1. And where the WWE title is positioned was a big hearth, and he threw it at about 90 miles per hour, like Randy Johnson level fastball and the fire and everything, like, a little extra spark. And I just walked away.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

I thought that wasn't the. That wasn't the right. Because. Oh, man, I feel like you've experienced this so much. There's, like, legends, dignitaries, luminaries, and then sometimes they're just kind of like old timers and you know, I try to offer everyone the same level of grace, but it was a different type of education. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[C]

You did the right thing. Okay. Yeah. Moving away from that especially what, what this is what, 2000, 2008. Yeah, yeah. Things were way, way different too there. So yeah, that was the best decision you could have made was definitely like walking away. I have like, I love to have a good time. I mean through my years I had my good times and. But I didn't ever. I just. When people start getting belligerent. Yeah. And especially if they're in the group that I'm around and it really not. Didn't bode well for them. You have to be able to handle your. You have to be able to handle your liquor and you know, conduct yourself in a manner. Right. So because you screw, one person screws up, you're all, you've all screwed up now. Right. Yeah. So yeah, it was. I liked having a good time but man, you had to be able to keep it together.

[B]

Yeah. You keep your circle together. You know, some people, some of my favorites, they never left catering. It was always just, we're going to sit right here, we're going to have our moment. It's going to be a private thing where we're just right here. And I always looked at it because I do know there's this weird discussion about people being made to drink and things of that nature. I always looked at it as just an opportunity. You don't spend as much time with these people. Particularly you're in the locker rooms with them or in my case, coming up where you're nervous and you're thinking about what you're going to be doing. You're calling a match and you're not sure am I supposed to be calling to the sim? Are we going over spots? Are we doing one of those where we don't all these things. And I liked it as a moment where you actually got to know each other. Especially when you were locked up with each other for you were on far longer tours than I was. But when I first came here, we still did the 17 day door to door. That's your family for.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Little period of time.

[C]

Yeah. So during the, the gist of my run, like I was on the road with those guys more than I was home. Yeah. And you know, so you, you one, you have to have a set of guys that one you can hang with. One that don't get on your nerves because a 17 day loop in, in Europe and you're in a different city most times, different countries every day. It doesn't take much. It doesn't take much. Put you on edge, but, you know, so you needed, you needed to have that camaraderie and. But, man, we, we had a few in the group that would get a little loose sometimes. Yeah, we'd have to have a little bit of come to Jesus, like, hey, we're gonna have a good time. But yeah, yeah, we got to cut.

[B]

The out because you can't come anymore.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. Hey, there's been more than one. That guy that's got grounded, right? It's just like, hey, no, no, no, you can't, you can't do that.

[B]

Talking about the tours, I, I wanted to ask you because there's a specific question about a tour I was going to bring up. But in general for you, throughout all the times you'd been overseas, did you have a favorite place overseas to wrestle?

[C]

I loved, I loved Australia. I just, I love going over there. I love the people over there. And again, I remember, I think this was the last time that I was. That I was champion and I was doing both shows. And so we had done. I think we did San Diego Monday, then we did Tuesday. We did Smackdown on Tuesdays, then la. No. So LA was Monday, Tuesday was San Diego, then we had to drive back after the show, back to LA to catch a flight to fly to Australia to do three, four live events and then make it back to California to do Monday Night Raw. Again. It was a brutal. It was brutal.

[B]

Sounds it.

[C]

Yeah. And so, you know, we do that. We fly. We fly all night. We get to Australia. Now this is what, two, mid 2000, maybe around 2008, 2009. Somewhere in there, somebody I'm sure will fact check that and let me know your dates. Your dates are off. But the actual tour did happen and we get to, we get to Australia. I think it was Sydney and it is like, it is packed. Yeah, it's a, It's a million dollar house then, which is. I mean, I know you guys are like, yeah, y'.

[B]

All.

[C]

Y' all fall asleep on a million dollar house now. But back then. Yeah, back then it was big.

[B]

No, of course. Yeah. This is a live event.

[C]

Yeah, this is not. Yeah, live event. And there's over a million dollar house in there. And I'm watching and sitting there watching the matches, man, and it's just like match after match. Everybody's tired. You can. You know what that. I mean, that, that just I'm jet lagged, I'm tired. I've worked two days and I got on a plane and I would say 80% of the matches were just dog. Sure. And I'm just sitting there and, and match after match I watch. I'm getting madder and I'm getting madder and I'm getting madder because everybody's kind of feeling sorry for themselves and not taking in the count, the appreciation to have that house. And so I get back, I was on last and Fit Finley was the, he was the producer, the agent. I said fit, you mind if I speak? You know, kind of wants to, you know, overstep his bound, you know, his, his role or anything. He goes, no, no, go ahead, Mark. He knew exactly what I was going to say, man. And I ended up cutting a promo on our, on our crew. Like most of them had never experienced the arena so empty that you could take a handful of rocks.

[B]

Sure.

[C]

And not hit anybody. Right. I mean, which is, you know, we had, we had battled our way through all that and now you have this kind of, you have this kind of house for a non televised thing and you're just going to dog it and call it in. No, the atmosphere, the tempo, the energy was much better the next night in, in New Zealand. Yeah. But yeah, I know we were talking about where I like to work, but yeah, Australia was just always seems like they've just kind of been just an incredible energetic crowd. And then you know the UK and Germany, I mean all those towns because they only got us once or twice a year, they always seem, you know, those towns were just, they had so much energy, so much fun. Yeah.

[B]

You mentioned the million dollar house. How the fact that people weren't appreciating it. Here's some really inside baseball. Keep this in please. But it's quite funny is now lately they've been putting largest gate in history and it's on the sheet that I have access to. If they don't write that though, no matter if it was an amazing house, no matter if the number's amazing, John Davis is kind of like, what happened, bro? What do you mean what happened? It's still a great like what are we talking about? You know. But that was the, that little line just largest in company history is, is a, is a thing. It's very exciting when you get to see that. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. The new year is an opportunity, but you don't need to be a new person. We all have things that weigh us down. Signing up for Therapy with better help can shine a light on what's been heavy and and illuminate all the possibilities for the year ahead. Therapy is a great way to gain an unbiased perspective on your life and can play a key role in leaving behind what's been heavy so you can focus on the future. BetterHelp does the initial matching work for you so you can focus on your therapy goals. If you aren't happy with your match, switch to a different therapist at any time from our tailored rex. With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is one of the world's largest online therapy platforms and having served over 5 million people globally. And it works with an average rating of 4.9 out of 5 for a live session based on over 1.7 million client reviews. You can't step into a lighter version of yourself without leaving behind what's been weighing you down. Therapy can help you clear space. Sign up and get 10% [e-mail] Cody that's BetterHelp. H E L P.com Cody, I wanted to ask you about your favorite place because we wrestled on. I don't know if you remember because you've been over and done this so many times. Do you remember the Honeymonster tour?

[C]

The Honeymonster tour? Yeah. So help me.

[B]

That may not be the best way to describe. It was a overseas tour in the UK where you and Triple H wrestled against me, Randy and Teddy Bias.

[C]

Tonight.

[B]

There was a serial sponsor called the Honeymonster. And it was just like a wampa, looking kind of like a mascot. He got all kinds of heat with the boys because he was on the massage table.

[C]

That's right. No, no.

[B]

After the Honeymonster, you had to hit.

[C]

Me where I lived there. Yeah.

[B]

He was starting to, like, register with everybody. We think, you know, you would think you wouldn't see him that often, but we were seeing him everywhere. He's sitting at the monitor, first in line at catering. Yeah, he's eating him. Like the Honey Monster became part of this tour, but this is a famous. And it's gone. As the kids say. It's a viral clip. You probably know where I'm going. Yeah, but there's this clip of what you did every night, but that's the one time somebody captured it where. When it was time for the hot tag. And this was a huge lesson in cutting the ring in half and just working an entire match based on working towards that tag. Working towards that tag right before it was time. Whenever we. Or in your case, Triple H and you deemed it was right. When the crowd was ready, you would start moving up and down the ringside area at an unbelievable speed. Just a crazy.

[C]

Just going.

[B]

And your hair at that point had dried out a little bit because you had just been hanging on the apron and working the apron, but you had been there. And you would call for a water bottle, and you'd catch it. And I don't think you ever missed in the 11 days I saw it. And you'd pour it all over your head, and the place would lose their mind. They were part of it with you. And then you'd come in there and you'd beat us all half to death. But where is the origin of this amazing moment? Like, where did you figure out doing this? Because it was one of my favorite things each night. And also, we didn't always go at the same times.

[C]

Right.

[B]

It was really off based off what. Unh.

[C]

Thought.

[B]

All right, it's time. And when I saw that, it was. We were chomping at the bits to be the ones to come in and feed. But, yeah, I was curious where it came from.

[C]

Totally. All it was was a total teachable moment.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

That was all. All it was for me. Yeah. I never worked that way anywhere else. Like, it didn't. It. It didn't work for my character.

[B]

Sure.

[C]

To work like that. Yeah. So. And back then, you don't. You're not thinking that someone is in my head. I'm not thinking, okay, we're. We're in Austria or wherever that was at. I'm not thinking of someone recording it. So I'm thinking that I'm getting away with being able to teach this moment and what I'm teaching. You know, I can sit here and talk with someone, and I can. I can talk psychology and why I do this and why I do that. And as I talk to you about it, you're listening and you're visualizing in your head what I'm talking about. Right. And then you get out in a match and you do absolutely nothing. The way that I was describing it to me, you know, for my vision. Your vision was something completely different. Sure. So I've got two guys. I've got Randy, who's. He's established guy. But then you and Ted are young guys coming up. So that's the best way for me to teach is to let you experience what that hot tag should be like.

[B]

Oh, man.

[C]

Yeah. That's all that. That's all that was, was just a teaching moment. Because I didn't get those very often.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Right. We got to do some creative things in the live events over there with tags and, you know, six, three on twos and all that. Those were all teachable moments. I mean, I don't know if you remember the hyena effect. I don't know if we talked about that is throwing somebody out. Throwing somebody out of the ring and then the other guy taking the referee and then the other guy jumping on him, and then, you know, as the. As the. The baby face on the heel, on the, you know, on the apron comes down to make the save, then you throw that guy back in. So now you. You're just, you know, those were all things that I was trying to get to, you know, to. To lay on you and lay on even Randy. But. But it was all. That was. All it was was just me trying to.

[B]

To teach that that makes the moment so much different for me thinking about it that way, because I had thought. I knew you didn't do that on tv. It was not the Undertaker we'd see on tv. But I also thought it's kind of his way of having an intimate moment with this crowd, which it was. But also, I'm sure you've been around so many people who talk psychology and it sounds great, and it's. Oh, yeah, he's got it. They talk about the structure of an angle, they talk about building a match, but then in the ring, it's not there at all. That's just a. I'm honored that that got to be the thing we did. Did I ever tell you what happened when I tried? Because there was another spot you did that. I always thought this was so clever. And again, for being you so big and you being able to do it. But you'd pop a chair up to make the noise so that everyone knew, hey, weapon. And then you'd come after the bad guys. If we were doing hyena stuff on the floor, actually. So I was in Denver, and it was a great house in Denver. And this is right before WrestleMania 39. I forget. It was a six, man. It was kind of a Motley Crue just put all together. I think we were actually were the week before Mania. So it was a safe thing, I suppose. I don't know. But they were doing it. I go, hey, I'm going to do. Because Me and the USO's refer to that as the taker spot, right? And we. It's just a thing. We're near the taker spot. Which could mean three things, but that one, they knew what it was. But I I remember we weren't. Not everyone was hip to it. Not everyone had run that play before, right? So they're getting all this excess heat on the outside and they're, whatever, now's the time. It's right. I'd hop down, I pop that thing up, I got it. Makes the noise, the crowd reacts, I slide around. But I kind of only half committed. I didn't really know because they weren't running the full way like we used to run, right? So I'm thinking, ah, the only person I can put this heat on is either me putting the chair down, which I don't want, or, or the ref has to stop me, right? So the way they, they went around, I slid in the ring and when I slid in the ring, this ref, and God bless, is a great ref. But again, wasn't hip to the spot. Stopped me with such a force that the chair hit me right in the face. So now it's the week before WrestleMania 39. I've never even been near the main event of a WrestleMania. And this is going to be the first WrestleMania main event and it's for the title. And I am thinking the whole rest of that match, I'm not even mad. I'm thinking the whole rest. If I have to get stitches, we just. I can't. And it wasn't that bad. But I thought, oh, what a cautionary tale. We were trying to do it. I get away with it now. I think I did it in Mexico. Cuz you were at the monitor watching.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

It's like how he's. I don't know how entertained he is, but we got to do something. No, no, no.

[C]

I recognized it. Yeah, okay.

[B]

Yeah, that's your play.

[C]

It's a. You know what? You guys now are so, so athletic and you guys can do so many things. There's just certain things that are so basic like that, that resonate because they don't. I don't think our audience sees it anymore. And it makes such sense, right? You're trying to create, you're trying to create advantages in the match, right, where your heels have got an advantage on your baby faces. So, you know, the way the spot's supposed to run is they're double teaming your guy on the outside. You chase the, you know, you chase them off, you throw the other guy, you know, it's always the hyena, like the lion will come in and chase these two hyenas off. The other two hyenas come back in and try to steal the, you know, steal the prey. So yeah, it. It's simple. Yeah. But it just, like, oh, people. You know, it resonates with you. Like, oh, man. Sure, he hits them with that chair, and then they get so excited because now you're out there chasing this guy with the chair while the other guy's beating the crap out of the guy. You just went. And it's just fun.

[B]

The difference between the psychology, the application. I remember I used to hear that a lot in my first run with WWE is it's great that someone's telling me this. You have to apply it. None of this works unless you're applying it. And that's where I really appreciated just the general you mentioned. Fit. Fit somebody that nobody wants to come back and get the. You know, tell me something, right? Unless it's, you know, to the Shawn Michaels moment of. No, it was that good. You. You already know that. You know, and that's so rare Anyways.

[C]

Right.

[B]

But the fact that we had. I saw you and Bailey talking about just the general being at the live events, and I've said it on this podcast, and I know it gets me in trouble with my peers, and I don't care. I miss them so much. I miss the live events for. For the rhythm of wrestling. I feel like it helped actually prevent injuries. I feel like it helped a general, just not just the camaraderie, but the other thing is being part of the team. If you're only here, like, once or twice a week, it doesn't feel like, what team are you on? Versus. No, this is our crew. We run. We run Saturday. We run Sunday. And I know it's a different time and the way the company works, it has its own difficulties and challenges today that are different. But I miss it, and. And I missed it was those things just. Yeah, try this.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Hey, did you hear that? Literally things that you could not put in a lab and replicate. Just a general excited fan. Just. I miss it. But that maybe it was a moment in time, you know, I don't know.

[C]

Well, but the live events, too, were like, where do you. Where do you. You know, you're sitting at home on your couch and you're watching TV and you think it's like, oh, man, you hit a spot. Comes in your head. Right? Well, that's pretty. It's pretty delicate. Or that. It's pretty intricate.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Like, do I want to try that on Monday Night Raw with Dora World watching, or do I want to try it in Poughkeepsie, you know, at a small. That's one of the things Too. About the live events. Yeah. One, I think there is like, we grinded. Maybe we grinded too hard. Right, right. But there is a, There's a, There's a line there.

[B]

There's a balance to it.

[C]

There is a balance that you need. You need the reps to stay sharp and, and then you also need a place to try new stuff.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Because there's nothing. You're going to get instant feedback. Yeah. In a, in a lot of it. You're going to get instantly. Okay. That either worked or maybe I need to do this to make it even better. But it's not something like, I'm going to pull this out on Monday Night Raw or I'm going to try this at the paper. You need someplace to, to, to. To try these ideas. And you know, I get trying to protect your talent, but I also agree with you that, you know, not working does maybe lead to, you know, because, you know, iron sharpens iron sometimes. And again, I don't think we need to grind like we did, but I don't think you need not to do live events.

[B]

When I left WWE and made a list of all these different independent wrestlers and wrestlers in Japan, all these different people I wanted to wrestle who I had heard where the bee's knees. Just the most talented, amazing and often very talented, very artistic, great people. But one of the things I discovered just on mom and pop Indies that I was doing is the no rhythm between each other made it so that you were firing the livest of rounds.

[C]

Right.

[B]

And I remember I'd be working with people that had been revered as, you know, you hear like, oh, five stars and all. And they were really athletic and they were really great, but we'd never touched before. So we all of the thought that, well, we don't want it to miss either. But oh my gosh, I had never. Yeah, I had never walked away with so many shows. You know, boxer cut here. Something above the eye. I'm just thinking, what's the issue? And I felt like that's something when it comes to Raw or Smackdown. Again, not to belabor my point about the live events here, but that's a thing as far as just getting a little chemistry with somebody because how often do you have that amazing lightning in a bottle chemistry? It's not right. It's rare.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So to. To get a good flow with people is important. I, I certainly, I certainly miss them. I want to go kind of rewind a hair because something that's always intrigued me, particularly watching, I'd say this 90 to 95 and even into the Attitude era. This run that you had, who with you growing up and watching and being a fan of the business, who are you most a fan of? Who. Who was your guy when you were watching wrestling?

[C]

You wouldn't believe it from where I ended up as a fan. So I grew up in Houston, so we had Paul Bosch's Houston Wrestling. Right. NWA Houston Wrestling. So I loved Mill Muscaris. Wow.

[B]

Flying headbutt, right?

[C]

Yeah, yeah. And I say that and people look at me like, that would not have been who I thought. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know. I don't know if it was. It was the mask and how fluid, how cool he was. I actually ended up getting to work not against him, but on the same card as him when I was with wcw. Crazy story.

[B]

Sure.

[C]

Come back talking about living the gimmick. Like people always, man, he's. He lived the gimmick. I remember coming back from my match, Mill had already worked. I go in to get in the shower, and there he is showering with his mask on.

[B]

Oh, I love it.

[C]

Yeah, I love it. He had his mask on. It's one of those things you walk in. I just stopped, like, should I be here right now? And I was like, oh, man. Okay. He's even. He protects it back here, too. And not that I was watching him in the shower, but it's at this.

[B]

Point, it's okay that you were wearing a mask.

[C]

So he's in one. He's over there, and I'm in this corner. And I just every once in a while would just, like, look back to see if he still had his mask. Mask on. Yeah. And I looked back one time, and he pulled it off. He pulled it off and. And hooked it onto the. The spigot there or the nozzle, and washed his face and his hair real quick, rinsed off, and it put the hood right. I mean, it probably wasn't 20 seconds.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And then, I don't know, maybe that affected me later on, like when I. When I started really having a gimmick, like, I always thought back to Mill, like, dude, this guy's even got the hood on in the. In the shower.

[B]

Well, I feel like there's a ton of synergy now that you bring that up. In a sense, it's completely different styles, Lucha libre and what you were doing, but what you said, that's the efforts he was willing to go. And to an outsider, or as Arne Anderson would say, to a civilian.

[C]

Civilian.

[B]

To a civilian. As AA would say, maybe that seems so odd, but to you it's not odd at all. It's what we do.

[C]

It is what? Yeah. If you care. And this means something to you.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Y. You go to those lengths and. Yeah, it's a lesson learned.

[B]

I'm curious about Houston because I grew up in. I would watch what was contemporary to me, WCW in the early 90s. Crockett is when I first started getting into some tapes. And so Mid Atlantic, I didn't know anything about Mid south yet. A little Florida here and there, but Houston and Paul, who my mother, of all people, will always go on record that Paul is one of the greater payoff men. Okay. So that. And then the custom jewelry that Paul was I.W. marks, right? Yes. I have a belt buckle. The cauliflower ear in the corner, the television in the other. It's one of Paul's. One of you have one of those. Yeah, I have one of his belt buckles. Yeah. But I'm so curious what made Houston wrestling? Because Texas is such a wild, territorial situation, being such a big, big state. What made Paul and Houston's wrestling so special? Because Bruce, who's been on this podcast, who. When he came on the podcast, I wanted to run through a brick wall. I never felt more motivated. Just listening to a man talk about wrestling and what it takes and who's. If you're going to be on top and all this stuff, I just.

[C]

Oh, it's amazing listening to Bruce, like, once you can just to decipher what's real and what's.

[B]

Sure.

[C]

You know. Yeah, but. Yeah, it's amazing. No, Houston just had that, you know, so back then, you got the guys that are traveling, Right. You got Andre that traveled. That's the first time, obviously, I'd ever seen Andre. I think I was 12, maybe 13 when I met or not met, but, like, got to shake Andre's hand, you know, you get to see the Sheik and Abdullah, Big Joe Leduc. Wow.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

Jose Lothario, the Black Jacks. I mean, all those guys come through there. Red Bastine. I don't remember if that name means anything to you, of course. Yeah, it's just there was just such a. A ruggedness to it. Like, it just like these dudes were, you know, Even as a kid, you were like, I remember me and my friend from across the street again, 1112 in that area. Oh, man. And the Sheikh, the original chic, is coming into town. Right. And we're. We're building ourselves up. My mom had got tickets for us. Sam Houston Coliseum.

[B]

Yep.

[C]

And that was like a super huge treat because we were both such big wrestling fans. But so the sheik's going to be on the card, right? And the tickets my mom get are right on the aisle.

[B]

I love it.

[C]

Right? So we're going to be able to. I mean, we're going to be right there, right on the aisle by them. So we're building ourselves up the whole week, right? You know, wrestling, it was Friday night, so we're. We find out maybe Monday or Tuesday, we're going to go. We're talking all week long. Yeah, man, when the sheet comes down, man, we're going to. We're going to say this to him and we're going to do this, and we're going to. We're going to. I might throw something at him. So we've got ourselves. We got ourselves hyped up all week long, man, what we're going to do to the sheet. Yeah. And you have to understand, like, you have to go back and realize how scary the sheik and Abdullah were, you know, in this time period, like, you. You believed everything that they did was legit. And we. And we were right there, right? But so we build ourselves up, man. So here we are, here comes the sheik. You know, he's doing his stuff and he's got his walk. And I, like, my buddy was in front of me and I was like, I'm going for it, right? So I move him out of the way and I start to lean over this barricade and I'm like. And he darts at me.

[B]

Oh, gosh.

[C]

I damn near took the whole row out running from him. He scared the living crap out of me. And in turn, like, I was like, I was Hank Snow, man. I was getting out of there because I knew he was coming. He convinced me that he was going to come over that barricade and get me, man. Yeah, I wiped out. I bet I wiped out three or four people just trying to get out of his way.

[B]

And I love the buildup over the course of the week for the show in terms of you thinking, oh, I'm going to. We're going to say this to him. We're going to do whatever. Because I didn't realize until later in my dad's life, his dad, the plumber, Virgil, that's what he liked to do Friday night in Texas, in Austin, they would go to wrestling. And what he want, it was a release for him. He tried to fight every wrestler. That's what he'd not really try to fight, but he'd Sit there and yell and scream. And that was his whole thing. And I had always thought they just went. As fans, you don't hear that as much anymore these days. Like modern fans are coming, maybe for different reasons, but I love the idea of. I'm going to let them know. I'm gonna let that. I'm gonna let that bad guy. I'll let that heel know how I feel. Oh, that's. Oh, man. And of course, he. Sean told me something one time and I never forgot it. He was saying, being a bit of a lighter heavyweight, that people would say stuff to him, all the it scream stuff in the ring, whatever, he probably heard all. But he'd always just kind of lean back and whatever was in that eye, he'd want them to know, hey, I'm. I'm a psychopath. Something like, oh, I could take. No, maybe I can't take him. Maybe not. You know, just. And I thought that's such a cool way to look at it, because it's not so much the size as much as the intent and as much as the belief and commitment to the being in there. Oh, man.

[C]

Yeah. Sean was amazing on so many levels. I think he was before his time and what he could do athletically, but that was only a small part of what Sean. What he did. What I always loved about Sean is, again, he could bump and sell and do all this pretty shit, but at one moment, at the right time in a match, when it comes to Dukes. Yeah, right. It should always. To me, it always. It boils down, you can do all the flying head, scissors and all these other things, but when it gets down, it gets to a point in the match where it comes down to Dukes and fighting. Right. And regardless of how outsized he was or who he was in the ring with, when it came to that, you believed him. Yeah, right. And that's a. That's a gift to have because a lot of people, they. You don't. You like. Yeah. Stick to the high flying stuff.

[B]

Sure.

[C]

But Sean had that thing in him, that dog, I guess, is what you. The dog he had had that dog in him. That look in his eye that you're talking about was like, hey, we got to go to Duke's. Yeah, we're going to go to Duke's. And I mean, I tell you, there's probably no one that I had rather work with than him talking about chemistry and all that, man, I could, I could, I could have a match with him. Well, not now, but when we were going, yeah, I could have a match with him and just like it's a night off. Yeah, it's so easy.

[B]

I always say it's like a night off, but it's a night on. You're discovering all new stuff. Everything's hitting as well. You mentioned that dog in them. I think the first guy. As I started looking at the wrestling industry from the okay, how do we do this? How. What was the makeup of this person but someone else who had that dog in them. I didn't realize this was Tully Blanchard. And I watched a lot of. I've watched all these random tag team hot tags this week where Tully met the guy on the ropes and had to fight his way out. And it was just a completely different sense of it. I don't know if I've ever told you this story, but one time Hunter told me, he's like, you've got same exact thing. He's know like you. You got to be able to like go for it and you got to be able to hang in there. It doesn't mean you're not going to take your licks, but you're getting back up, you're coming again. So he told me, he said, at this point in your career, I was a bad guy. I was doing Dash and Cody Rhodes. He said, don't be afraid to run back in there. Let that baby face know and take one more. One time I ever tried it, one time was Booker and. And Booker is in there just doing Booker. You know what I'm saying? And I let him know I'm yelling, screaming. So because I had last thing I want to do. I'm not trying to break the flow of this up. You got to hit me. And I slid in there and I as. It's like it was magic. He turned around and that giant Booker hand just right here and just bing. Eardrum gone right away.

[C]

And I just hit you with his working.

[B]

I mean.

[C]

Yeah, I went down and.

[B]

I went to the back and I remember I just looked at Hunter. He don't even remember him telling me that story. And I just went, well, didn't really work. You know, you mentioned his working punch. One of my favorite things with T book ever was I wrestled him when he had come off commentary. So there was a little rust for sure. But I ain't pointing that out. This is. I'm always going to try. The veteran is going to lead this is. Anything that goes wrong, it's going to be my fault.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Even if, you know, I don't think that was. But it is my fault.

[C]

Right.

[B]

But he Was in the corner lighting me up with chops, but his head was moving so he wasn't looking at me. So he's chop here and then looking back and I, I come back, full handprint on my face, just all scratch on my neck. And he was right in front of me. And I'll just never forget, he's screaming, follow that Shakespeare. He's going on his whole bit. And I just, every one of, I was looking at everyone like, yeah, yeah, guys, it got considerably better. But I'll never forget because now guys get in the corner, they go to chop you. It's so deliberate and so, man, he was literally just flying all over, man.

[C]

He was feeling it, right?

[B]

Yeah, he was. He was feeling it. And it was worth it that he was feeling, you know, it was worth it.

[C]

That's funny. I, I, back in the day, I, I'd be in the ring with Rock and I don't, I don't know if you ever noticed, but Rock would love to have you. Your back to the Tron.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And we, we were working one night and he is just wearing me out, right? He's got me up against the ropes and he is just pounding me right. Ain't looking. He's not looking anywhere. He's just watching himself wh. On the Tron. It's like this. And I'm like, I was like, hey, dude, if I'm gonna sell for you, can you at least look me in the eyes while you're beating my ass? And then he popped. He laughed about it, but it was just like, come on, come on, man. Oh, he was all into.

[B]

Just kidding. You guys had the giant Tron.

[C]

Just the Tron itself.

[B]

Oh, my gosh.

[C]

You pick up everything. Come on, man.

[B]

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[A]

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[B]

You mentioned the Rock. You mentioned the final boss, which is. I struggle to know how I would ask you this because I don't really talk about it that often, because I don't want to ruin what it was. And I don't know if we could ruin what it was, but just it was such a special thing to me. But obviously, we have to talk about WrestleMania 4D, and from my perspective, I'm very curious as far as your perspective on it, but people will look at that, and it's. I see all the time the greatest five minutes in wrestling history, which is hilarious because within the 5 minutes section they cut out is just me laying there selling. So I'm there, you know?

[C]

But hey, sometimes you got to set the table. You got to set the table.

[B]

I'm in there.

[C]

And then just sit back and look at your handiwork.

[B]

I am in the corner. But this moment, I can tell you that Hunter talked to me a lot about what I was looking at as far as, what do you want that to be? What is it? And rivalry with Roman and I is rather real. So it's one of those things you don't talk a lot about. And I kept telling him I don't. I'm too close to this all. Whatever play you call, we're going to run it. But I describe it as actual magic is basically what happened in front of me. And again, John Cena comes down first to neutralize solo Sikoa. John rolls to the backside, but I can see him. He's on the backside. He's up against the wall. After Rocket came out to neutralize John Cena. And then, of course, the bells hit. And the part, to me that was so wild because you know how a blackout looks in the arena. It's not always a blackout in the arena like it is on tv, but you kind of pulled a little bit of a Yoda move where you're walking around backstage real, you know, slow, just kind of, you know, conserving your energy. And then the speed to which you roll in the ring, you can hear it on the. You can hear it. It's like. It's like listening to a guy at a wrestling school do a roll for the first time and do it right. You sped in there and stood right up. And then when the reveal comes up, there you are. This moment happens. Grab him, give him a big choke slam. He goes up for it. Boom. Big moment. And then you did the coolest thing is you looked back, knowing what was happening in the entire match. You looked back at me, and of course, I was in a cell, so the moment wasn't what maybe you had envisioned, but you look back at me just to give me a little like, I got him. It's yours now.

[C]

I got him.

[B]

But then you winked. And I tell people this all the time. I went like this. And when you winked, the lights went out. And I remember thinking, he's. He's shoot fucking magic. And I couldn't. Like, I'm going in my mind through the. How. Oh, did he. Did they know? Did they see him do it? No, they didn't. Because you turned your back to the hard game to look at me and give me that moment. And that moment accompanied by. I saw Jon's eyes, and he just watched and kind of just like, gave me. Gave me something, you know, just a. Just a nod, whatever it is.

[C]

I'm.

[B]

Sure you know, but that. That did so much. Not just for the match, and the match as it stands today, not just for the spectacle of WrestleMania, not just for WWE history, because WrestleMania 40, it's a tenure mania. It's everything. It's past, it's present, it's future. It's all those things. But the amount of people who did honors for me and put me over to go over in that moment, I can never, never tell you enough times how grateful I am for it and how special it was and how honored I was and still am. And not only that pressure in terms of. Look at what they did. Don't screw this up. Look at what they did. Don't. Don't honor what they did. I say it all the time. Does this honor what we did here?

[C]

Right?

[B]

And I don't use it in a political way. I mean, it. We did all this. Do we honor it? Am I still honoring it? And I just. If I didn't get the opportunity to tell you in person, I'd be kicking myself. Thank you very much. I mean, thank you. It was. Was a wrestler's dream to have hall of Famer, hall of Famer, Mount Rushmore guy, everything right there. My childhood. In addition to that, someone who also taught me things. Someone who I drove around.

[C]

All of it, right?

[B]

Every piece of it. I couldn't ask. I didn't want to come back and tell my wife I didn't want to tell her, hey, well, we peaked. You know, like, I didn't want to say that because I knew, like, hey, the road begins now.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

But I also knew if I never was in that spot again, I'd be. I was incredibly lucky that I was ever there in the first place.

[C]

Yeah. No, and the only thank you I think anybody would ever want is for you to do what you've done and continue to grow and grow this sport and. And take that and go to the next level with it. I mean, that's the only. That's the only thank yous that would ever. Anybody would ever ask for. It was incredibly, incredibly special moment even. Even for. For us, obviously, for you and what's about to happen for you, but, you know, for all of us to be in there again, you know, me and Rock to be in the ring together again, all those things, it was. It was just such a cool, cool moment. And, yeah, I wish I could say that the eye wink and the lights going out were my doing or.

[B]

I know it was.

[C]

It was. That was just fate. That was. That was. That was a cool. That just happened. But, yeah, you know, that, that. But yeah, man, that was. That was just. Again setting the table for you and an incredible run. And I love the way and how serious that you take this business. And, you know, that's. It was just fun. It was. It was a fun night. And the only reason that. That I moved so fast is because you don't want to screw that up.

[B]

Yeah, you got to be up for.

[C]

Right. You got to be like, I can't.

[B]

Do the reveal when. Hold up, guys.

[C]

Old man. Old man moving in here. Well, yeah, so it was funny because I'd had, you know, just not probably what hadn't been a year yet that I had both my knees replaced. Oh, wow. I did them both. And they. So they bring me into the bowl to load me, right? And they brought me in at one end of the stadium and I had to get underneath a hard camera, make.

[B]

It as difficult as possible where I.

[C]

Was going to stage. Yeah, yeah. And you know, the sequences are starting to happen and they're like, okay, we gotta hurry. I've never run on my new knees.

[B]

Oh, my gosh.

[C]

Never.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

And I'm like, okay, here we go.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And here I am, man. And I'm like, holy, I'm running. Yes. This ain't happened in a while. And it feels pretty damn good here, right? So maybe got a little gassed, but yeah, but yeah, the knees were like. I Was like, holy. I can still go. Yeah, no, absolutely not.

[B]

I mean, in a way you did.

[C]

Well, that went to where I had to get. I got to where I had to get and then I got to the ring and got in the ring and standing up for the lights come on. So it's all good.

[B]

Double knees. And after that, no complications, right? You didn't like, go back to the hospital after that? They're good. These knees are solid.

[C]

The knees are. Yeah, the knees are good, man. Yeah.

[B]

My brother Chicken just got the double knee.

[C]

Yeah, it sucks, man.

[B]

Yeah, it sucks. I kind of want to mess with him on it. I might even see him later, try and like challenge him to something that clearly, oh, he just had double knee surgery. He's not capable of doing it.

[C]

How far out is he?

[B]

What, a month or two months?

[C]

Oh, no. Oh, yeah. You can come slap him in the back. He can't catch you.

[B]

Something like, just really frustrating. You mentioned to taking it seriously, the future of the sport, evolving it, growing it, going through whatever challenges present themselves and just trying to leave it better than we found it. You're very much in terms of looking at the future of everything.

[C]

Aaa.

[B]

Aaa. You were at a. You were in Mexico City. You're there at the monitor. What are you seeing in terms of what you're doing now and what you want to do with the future of sports entertainment, pro wrestling and the sport in general?

[C]

Yeah, helping out with creative and doing some stuff with aaa. I'm trying to like, my vision is to take almost take a step back, to step forward. You know, I'm. I'm really high on, on the, on the physicality and the, and the actual in ring stuff and things making sense, which is, which is kind of difficult from where I've come from. And then working with aaa. Oh, yeah. You know, the Lucha. The Lucha libre legacy is incredible, right? With the mask and then there's so many like, as you are a legacy, there's so many, you know, there's this guy who then has a son, who has a son. So all these legacies and all this culture is in there. So I don't want. What we're trying to do is, is. Is honor that, but, but give more production value to the product and, and help storytell. Yeah, a little better. I think that's the, the biggest thing, like they talk about incredible athletes and the things that they can do is it's, it's amazing. And the following they have is amazing. So if I can take the best of Lucha libre and the best of what I, I know and I can, I can mold them together. I think we're going to have something that's really, really special down there. And. But that's the key is trying to not, I'm trying, not trying to make AAA Lucha Libre. I'm not trying to make it no Raw or SmackDown, WWE. I'm taking some elements of that, adding it to what they already do and try and make a product that, that everyone will want to see. And it's an alternative. It's just like the, you know, the other company, Raw, smackdown, all these other, you know, TNA just give people a variety and different things to enjoy about wrestling.

[B]

So I was going to ask you a specific question, thinking about AAA and what you would tell someone moving in the future. But I feel like I'm gonna kind of specify here because I'm actually very interested. And this is something at my school, the Nightmare Factory, I have yet to figure out how to even address with people because a lot of young wrestlers want to do a big time gimmick. And when I say big time gimmick, this spooky, mystical, artsy, whatever it may be. And I heard a term the other day about someone backstage and I thought that's the craziest thing I've ever heard. They referred to somebody as a proper lighting guy. And I, they. Because they basically, they needed all the smoke and mirrors but they couldn't be seen in this setting. And I, I thought that's not the case with you in a sense that you were out there full dead man. And this is throughout all the runs. American Badass, Dead man, everything as striking and Jiu Jitsu got involved in it and like all your evolutions, all that, you still were able to be in some of the greatest backstages of all time. Not proper lighting. And it didn't break the mold on the character. What, what do you tell someone who's entering that space of 100% layering on a big time gimmick? You know, I could say proper lighting, but something spooky, something mystical, something that's really fantastical. What would you tell them about? How do you get it actually? Because to me you're this anomaly whenever we talk about this. And then Bray Wyatt an anomaly in terms of they were able to make it work, the bell rang still and they were wrestlers. So how. What's the secret to that formula in terms of being that gimmick? And I don't want to use the word gimmick, but being that character, but making it translate into all facets of how we do tv, as corny as.

[C]

It may sound, like you. You have. You have to believe to a certain degree that you are that gimmick. And again, that kind of goes back, you know, people, man, you lived the gimmick. You did this and you did that. It helped me when I was in the airport and I was all in black and people like, oh, crap, you know who that is? Yeah. Like, although I wasn't in my ring gear, but it was obvious, like, dude, that's. That's the. That's the Undertaker. Yeah, right. And although it was different, but it was the same. And, you know, my interactions were always very, very calculated with people. Yeah. That. Outside of, you know, outside of our dressing room or whatever. Yeah. I mean, they got to, you know, they got to see me, but it was. I was very calculated. So living the gimmick is. But you have to believe in what you're doing. Yeah, right. You can't just like, okay, I'm this guy now. This is. This is what I am. 1. You have to find something that. That. That resonates with you.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Right. You. You have to have that. That. That sometimes it could be. It's even luck sometimes.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

That whether you find it or whether you don't find it, but you have to commit to, in my opinion, to make something like, yeah, okay, yeah, he's different. Like, I knew people that knew I wasn't dead.

[B]

Yeah. But just figuring it out. Like you said how you would deal with someone in the airport, how you deal somebody when you were in full, you. You figured each and everyone out, and it made you more of the character. Yeah.

[C]

It just.

[B]

It gave you more tools.

[C]

Right.

[B]

I'd only. John Cena explained that one time about when he was doing the rap gimmick and he was rapping everywhere. He'd go to a station every. He'd do local. Local press, and he said that's where he figured out his. His rapport. That's where he figured out his kind of brand guidelines.

[C]

Right.

[B]

To basically stay in it all the time. To stay in that all the time, but without insulting anyone either.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

To me, that's.

[C]

That becomes the difficult part, too, because, you know, even early on, they would. Crazy enough, they would book Paul Bear and I to do Regis and Kathie Lee. Yeah. And it's like, yeah, I'm hearing it and I'm going, why would they do that to me?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Right. I mean, I can't interact because, you know how Regis was. You know, he was a big wrestling fan. And he wanted to have fun and play. And then Kathy Lee was Kathy Lee. Yeah. And you know, so trying to navigate those kind of waters and you, you sometimes you just have to like, I'm going to come off like a dick here. But to them. Yeah, but my fans and the people that dig what we do are going to totally shit. Because so many times when you get into. To a different genre or a different. You just naturally kind of gravitate whatever they're doing, right. And you let your guard down. So, you know, I had to have that mindset. Like, okay, you're going to, you know, I remember them cutting up. Like, you know, producers come back and, okay, Kathy Lee is not much into wrestling. She's probably not going to say anything, you know, Regis. It'll all be with Regis. So you get out there and then she starts chirping, right. She starts saying different things and it's like, okay. So, you know, I'm just like, you know, I'm. Yeah. And like, oh, you're in a bad mood and you. Where you want to, like the inside of you just wants to like, shut up. Like, I'm. I'm working here. Right. But you know, obviously you can't, you can't do that. But you have to, you know, you just have to make the best of it. But, you know, yeah, there were times where I just like, I had to live it. And yeah, there's. There's layers to live in the character too.

[B]

Around the time you mentioned Regis and Kathleen and that's. I, I wanted to ask you and I thought, I don't want to ask him a question that's like a clickbaity type question, but.

[C]

Oh, here we go.

[B]

I do feel this era of. This is my childhood, this era of WWE and this era of WCW as well. You. I don't know how many people had the same. Your chemistry with Brett and your chemistry with Sean. You were just the, like the trio. I feel like I don't want to ask, but I have to ask. Did you have one. You preferred wrestling or was it more what you were doing in the like the creative of it all? Because you hear there's always like an argument now. I love them both growing up. Yeah, Sean was my guy.

[C]

Right.

[B]

But then as I got older, I'm like, oh, no. Brett's. I didn't even see all this. Brett's doing something completely different here. And just an appreciation for them both being so great. But you got to be in there with them.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

All of you priming up.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Just Getting better. Did you have one you preferred?

[C]

You know what? I, I could, I'd, I could lose a bet. Yeah. Either one of them, you know what I mean? I, I did. They were both great. They're both so good in the ring. I, I probably had the very best chemistry with Sean.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And, but I tell you what, I, I, I've said this a few times about Brett because Brett didn't want to talk about living this and, and believing everything Brett did. And, and I respect that. When Brett was the champion, he was the champion. Right. And he conducted himself as a champion and from, from top to bottom. So, you know, with, so I was, when I started working with Brett, like, I was real, real heavy even in my, my ring. Work with the character.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Right. I was still trying to establish all of that. And there was only so far Brett was going to go with, with the, as he called it, the Frankenstein. Sure. Gimmick. Right. There was only so far he was going to go to, you know, to put, to put me over with that. Yeah. And I had to, you know, obviously he was a more tenured guy. He was, he was higher up than me, so there was not a lot I could do about it. And I wanted to have great matches and I wanted to work with guys like Brett. Yeah. So being able to work against Brett forced me to learn how, how to work within the gimmick. Yeah. With, with and have not just a gimmick match, but to have really, really good matches.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And Brett forced me to get out of the, out of the comfort zone of the, of the, you know, the Jason Voorhees, the Michael Myers stuff, and actually put on a wrestling match. So for that I'm, I'll always be grateful to Brett because he pushed me and made me become better. Yeah. And, and then, you know, I've always said this about Sean. Like, Sean may be the only guy I've ever known that could have a five star match with a broomstick. I mean, he's just that talented.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

But hey, I'll give you first pick. I'll take the other guy.

[B]

Right?

[C]

Yeah. I don't, Yeah.

[B]

I mean, you got to navigate the waters in terms of, you had the great matches with both of them. You're very much part of their, their stories and they're very much part of your stories. I'd heard you say that about Brett before and I think that's really cool because at what point does that happen? You're, you're kind of getting hit. Always coming back up, getting hit, taking so Much to keep you down. For example, the amazing arm in the casket segment, which just selfishly. Do you remember who produced the segment? Was it Bruce?

[C]

Probably back then when we did it, it was probably Bruce. Yeah, I would imagine. Yeah.

[B]

Because it's, it's as, as modernized and as high res as it is. It's also the most old school thing you've ever seen. Like you felt bad, you, you took, oh, what can we do? He, we can't keep him down. No, we can. Yeah, this is how we're going to do it. And I thought, oh, the poor. You had to get just lacquered with this chair over. But it's such a great segment. I'm glad you it was Bruce because you know how much your Bruce is everything. You're just Bruce's. I consider myself a bit of a Bruce guy because he came back and got me.

[C]

Right.

[B]

He literally found me, got me and I'm loyal to him. When I came back from WrestleMania 39, it was all so real. I, I, man, I don't know if I'm gonna be able to a full year on this chase. Whatever, man. He was the first one to be there for me and just. But Bruce, every story relates to something with you. Every story ends up going back with something with you. And I just, I'm sure you know that already, but yeah, that segment's an amazing, an amazing segment.

[C]

It was selfish.

[B]

I wanted to know who, who's behind it. It felt very much like a Bruce segment.

[C]

Yeah. Bruce had most of my, that those early days. Bruce did most of my stuff. Yeah. All of the flesh freezing vignettes in the cemeteries and all that crap that we did.

[B]

I gotta ask you, and I didn't think I would ask you because I try to avoid Dusty talk on here a lot because it's like you've done Dale Junior's pod, right? Have you ever done.

[C]

We've just never been able to hook up on it.

[B]

He's the best.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I noticed when I watch other race car drivers and other people, it all ends up being talk. They talk a lot about his dad.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And he said one time in a full. Basically, you know, like we all do sometimes. You see what the critics and haters are saying. I saw him one time give like a little bit of a prologue in a sense, like, hey guys, we're going to talk about my dad on the show. So if you don't like it, I'm sorry. Like this is a legendary race car driver who raced with him and I try to avoid it but often it's hard to avoid your debut in wwe. Your debut.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And I always look at it a little differently because it's your debut. And I think my dad was also on the way out.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Leaving.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

How was that? Was it fun or was it terrible? It felt like you're walking through everyone basically and nothing's fully established yet. You know, I don't think we're tombstone in yet or.

[C]

Yeah, well, yeah, Coco ended up getting the first tombstone which was very brutal.

[B]

But that my sense and I could be totally wrong. It felt like it had to be pretty rough.

[C]

Yeah, well, it was the marching orders.

[B]

On like, hey, this is what's happening. And you've got some who's who in there, even if you. So you didn't have to know at the time. But almost everyone in WWE had been a massive star in a territory somewhere. So they'd done the top for them. And now coming up, it was a different ball game. So can you speak to that? Because I didn't think. Now I'm thinking about my dad takes this like goofy throat chop. I don't even know what it is, but this is.

[C]

My early strike was an underhand chop to the throat.

[B]

It's an amazing debut for you. And this is Survivor's series. How was that day?

[C]

It was nerve wracking. Right. Because I'd had the, you know, I'd had the little. Not a run. I wouldn't even consider it a run. So, you know, in WCW and you know, obviously they tell me, you know, they got nothing for me and so I end up there and now I have this incredible gimmick. Right. Like that no one. Like we don't know where it's at yet. Yeah, we're still trying to. And I'm still trying to figure out what it is that I'm going to. What this guy is. I just know he's going to be methodical.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Slow paced right now. And you know, I'm going to debut at Survivor Series and in the ring is Bret Hart and Jim the Anvil, Nightheart and Honky Tonk man and Ted Dibiase. Dusty Rhodes.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

You know, and then they come and tell me, yeah, you're gonna pretty much steamroll whole team. Everyone. Yeah. And. And again, I think a lot of the guys that were in that ring were finishing up and not. And some of them begrudgingly.

[B]

Yeah, okay.

[C]

And I'm like, oh boy, this is. What a rough day. Yeah, yeah, this is popping. Yeah, I gotta like, I gotta go out and get myself Over. Yeah, I got this new gimmick that I don't know exactly what I'm doing yet and I've got a bunch of disgruntled people that are gonna have to sell for me and you know.

[B]

Disenfranchised, Disenfranchised. Your producer's probably not helping you that much. You've gotta actually do this.

[C]

Yeah, it was, it was, it was a bit nerve wracking. And then that, you know, that, that era of guys too were a little. They, they were salty, man. They were.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Especially if you're getting finished up and moving out of the territory.

[B]

So then the follow the money too, in terms. If you weren't working. This is a little bit right around guaranteed. Pre. Guarantee.

[C]

Yeah, Pre. Guarantee. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, it was a little tense out there, you know, and you know, you can hear, you can hear a few guys chirping here and there. Oh, yeah, I'll get a sale for this kid, you know, And I was like, oh, brother, you know, here we go. But. And then being in the ring again, like with your dad, who was, you know, when I. He's one of the guys obviously that I watched, you know, loved is all the stuff with him and flair and that whole, you know, decades of battles and then. Yeah, you're standing across the ring from these guys, right? Yeah. And yeah, it was, it was a nerve wracking day. And eventually, yeah, me and your dad fought out of. Yeah, we fought out. We both got counted out. That was how.

[B]

This doesn't sound like it, the way that. It's tricky.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, so that they had to get me out. So then murder all these other guys. But then they have to get me out.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

To, to eliminate me. But they don't want to pin me.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Obviously. So, yeah, me and, me and Dusty get to fight out and I lose the. I lose on a count out.

[B]

Do you remember that? Was he difficult?

[C]

No, no, no, he was great. Yeah, he knew. Yeah.

[B]

No, I love hearing that. No, he knew his face makes it look like he was being difficult.

[C]

No, not at all.

[B]

Okay, good.

[C]

No, no, no, no. Yeah. Come on, Kia. Come on, keep it up, baby. Yeah, yeah. No, he was. Yeah. No, no, not at all. Like he, your dad knew business. I mean, it was just, you know, it was just what it was, man.

[B]

He. I think he had a knack like you said. And most people don't realize because you look at. From maybe the selfish, the whole body of work, a Booker champ, all these things. But when we'd Watch wrestling. Modern wrestling, ECW was a thing when I was growing up. I'd always watch him watch it. And that was. What you just said was something I realized. He gets business.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, it might be totally different, but he gets like, no, this is working. We gotta roll with this.

[C]

This is what.

[B]

The direction. This is what Ear to the Ground sounds like. And, like, you're the same. It's crazy. Lucha Libre. Aaa. I mean, but then you have Mel Mascaris, that's your guy growing up, and now you're down there, and you're part of that wonderful tradition. And you said something that. Thank you for saying it, because I like to take things. This is my. This is. Again, we don't have the live events. I have this podcast, so I get to talk to the greatest of the greats and hear something. You said. Take a step back to then take a step forward.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Thank you. What a great.

[C]

Because.

[B]

Because it's all. There's always a challenge. We joked about the record house, all that.

[C]

Well, those.

[B]

Those eventually, you know, and then it's your gig to bring them back and to take a step back, to take a step forward. It's really. Man, it's really nice. Nice way to put it. My gosh.

[C]

Yeah. What's old will be new again.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Right? Yeah.

[B]

Man, I'm so glad I asked about Survivor Series. He wasn't. He was. He was in a good mood, huh?

[C]

Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. No, it was. Yeah, everything was. Everything was good, man.

[B]

Man, what a rough run you're coming in and did. Murdering a lot of guys and doing a pile driver.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah. So that was. You know, I've told the. I've told the story, like, I kind of blew it off because I didn't really think it was that bad.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And I don't really. I don't like. Once I became. Once I became Undertaker. Yeah. Like, I. I watched. Of course, I was doing my outside, like, studying, like, on Michael Myers and all the, you know, all the Slasher Killers, and then trying to figure out how to incorporate all that to what I wanted to do. But I did. I kind of stopped watching. I didn't know what was going on in Japan. I didn't know what was going on in wcw. I was so focused on what I was going to do, and then I was watching the guys that were. I was competing with. So I didn't have a lot of, you know, my knowledge on wrestling is. Was pretty small in the sense of what other people have done.

[B]

Sure.

[C]

So I. I give the first tombstone to Coco, beware. Right? Yeah. And we get back, and again, this is. Again, I think he was one of the guys that was going to finish up. I don't think he ended up finishing up, but he was on the list of guys that were finishing up. So we'll get back in the back. And he comes. He gets kind of gets in my face, which is kind of. Was kind of humorous, too, because, you know, Coco's not a tall guy, but he's like, giving me the riot act in this hallway about, hey, man, if I'll give you my body, you got to protect me. And. Which. Yeah, absolutely.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

But I'm. I don't know, like, that. The tomb. I didn't know that. It didn't feel like I thumped him or.

[B]

No, not at all. Yeah. Yeah.

[C]

And, you know, and he's like, you gotta protect. You know, he's really giving me the riot act. And I'm like. I'm apologizing. Yeah. Like. Like, dude, I. That is not my. That is not my deal. Like, I don't. You know, I want to be safe. And, like, if I hurt you, I apologize. Right. I don't know what else I can say. And we keep going, you know, and he keeps going. And I guess he's. You know, he's upset, and he's got a bunch of other stuff going on his mind, too. So it finally gets to the point where I'm like, bro, I've apologized to you. Yeah. Now this is my first. This is my first day in the company, and now I'm having. I'm already having this issue. Right. And I'm like, like, do we have to go out in the lot?

[B]

Right?

[C]

Yeah. I mean, that's not what I wanted. Obviously, I didn't want. You know, I just. That's not what I wanted to do. But it's like, I didn't know what else I. Like, I can only. You could only cuss me for so long.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

You've made your point. I mean, I don't know what else I can say.

[B]

And you guys didn't go in the parking lot?

[C]

No, no, we didn't. He left. I mean, you know, he. And we were fine. We were friends and everything was cool and. But it was just in the moment.

[B]

But there's not many locker room arguments anymore. But I do find that they all do end at that point.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Whereas. Okay, are we fighting? Like, just a classic. Are we fighting? Is that. No, we're not.

[C]

Okay, good.

[B]

Then you can only say sorry so many times.

[C]

Right? Yeah. I mean, you have to. Yeah. If, you know, that's just the point. You have to go, okay, we got to go somewhere else with this. And nobody wants that. But it's the era, too. It was just kind of like. It was salty. Last fight I remember was Big show and Khali. That was the last fight I remember watching.

[B]

It's so funny to hear the different descriptions on how the fight went. You know, like some people talk about hearing the thunderous blows because they were so big. They were both hitting each other so hard. And then the fight ends because show fell.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Off the suitcase. Right. But then was. He was upset because it looked like he had lost the fight in terms.

[C]

Of somebody might have told him he lost. He tipped.

[B]

So you told him he lost.

[C]

So one of my favorite things in life is like, I love. I love Show. I truly do. But he has been on the receiving end of many, many ass chewings for me, and all of it out of that love, because I knew how much potential and talent that he really had, and I wanted him to use all of it. But he did receive a lot of grief from me. And he hit Khali so hard.

[B]

I.

[C]

Had to look behind Khalid to see what was holding him up. He ate a right hand.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

He ate a right hand from Big Show. That's the sound. That sound that. It sounded like dropping a big ribeye steak on the counter.

[B]

All right?

[C]

And it was like, ooh. Kali just took a couple steps back and then they locked up again. And Big Shot was getting to him a little bit, but then he trips on the suitcase and they end up in this little bitty locker, like a, you know, the wooden locker with the seat. So Big show falls into it with Kali on top of him, and. And then that's when. When Regal gets involved and Fish hooks Kali to pull him off. So good. It was good, good stuff. But show was getting to him, but I never let it know. I was like, oh, man, Kalief, he. Man, he was on top of you, man.

[B]

Your way. You were with Show. Big show, who I. I love your way. You were it. I don't know if anyone else has ever told you this. He often will say, taker told me this. Taker told me this. Taker told me he was really big on reiterating something you had taught him. And I don't know if I've told this story on the podcast before, but I had a moment with show that was. It changed my entire career. But I was wrestling for 10 nights in a row just on an overseas tour. And it was before we had wrestled at WrestleMania. And he was beaten the first three or four nights. We were doing so much haha, right? Hit me. He found this rubber chicken one time, beat me with it and kept asking me to feed up and get hit with it more and then had me spit someone's drink in his mouth. It was just a lot of kind of like this vaudeville comedy. And I don't know what was striking me at the time. Again, like, there's other stuff going on with you, and usually your dancing partner has to somehow hear about it or feel it because it's hard to keep it all contained. But I told him myself, I'm gonna go in the locker room, I'm gonna tell him, hey, I don't really wanna do the comedy stuff anymore. And I'm talking myself up on the bus. And I got a good relationship with him. He seems to listen to my ideas when I have them. So. Okay. And I just told him, I said, hey, I don't wanna do haha anymore. I wanna get this to the right place before Wrestlemania. And he, he was not happy, but he, he kind of. I could tell. He looked at me and wanted to probably say something meaner, but then maybe rethought it and he just looked at me though, and he goes, okay, well then you should get over. And he left. And I thought, yep, yep, that's right. And we did more comedy for the next six nights than we had ever done. And there was a lesson in it all, because I remember he's like, did you hear him out there? Like, when you come back, you have equity with this crowd, right? You entertain them on this random live event show that didn't have a lot of things on it. They'll remember. They'll remember everything. And he was dead on, dead right. People still talk about silly stuff that we did. And like, the rubber chicken is still somehow involved in my career to find its way into the ring.

[C]

All the things you've done.

[B]

Yeah. Rubber chicken. Yeah, no. But Are you ready to hold WWE history in the palm of your hand? Topps is bringing you closer to the action than ever before with wwe. Topps now highlighting the biggest matches and milestones from WWE shows and ples throughout the year. Topps now is enhancing the fan experience by connecting collectors to the superstars and spectacles that ignite their passion. Featuring stunning event exclusive photography, each card is made for the moment. And for some lucky collectors, that moment could become the pull of a lifetime. Along with serial numbered parallels, some top snow Releases offer a chance at rare short prints, Superstar autographs, and even pieces of the mat, gear or other items used during the featured match. So which moment will you collect with each card only available for a limited time. You won't want to wait to begin your top Snout journey. Be sure to subscribe to WWE Topps now mailing list on topps.com and follow Topps on all social media platforms so you never miss a single moment. Have you ever heard my Royal Rumble story about you?

[C]

I saw a small clip of it, bro.

[B]

Dude, so much of it is special to me, but there's also this lack of preparation. And then when I go to the Garden, there's this feeling of that was the last time that the short entrance was at the Garden. The old school entrance. I think it's welded over now. It's impossible.

[C]

Yeah, you can't even come out the side anymore.

[B]

But, you know, it was my first Royal Rumble and CM Punk is backstage and I remember him telling me, he's like, what do you got planned? I don't know. I throw another guy out, like, joke around. I don't know. He's like, well, no, it's like you're 30 to 90 seconds, man. Like, gotta do something, right? So now I'm thinking, what an idiot. I'm an idiot. I should have talked to all these guys because he's getting deep in the day, you know, Like, I should have come up with something. So I talked to him, like, can we do this? Yeah, of course. Yeah, it sounds great. Oh, my gosh. That spot I did with him last maybe nine seconds.

[C]

Nine seconds, yeah.

[B]

It's so quick. And it's like the spot happens with Punk where I think it was like a reverse atomic drop. And he. I almost dump him out. Which was not a good call because he was a beloved babyface at the time. And I was just kind of on the come up. But right when that happens, it's like they missed production, missed that whole spot. But then they're like, hey, it's Cody. He's in there. He's in the center. So it's just me on the video wall, right in the center. I'm not doing anything now, so I have this second or two to think, what could I do? And then you were in the corner. I just remember, like, what Randy had taught me and what everyone else. I thought, yeah, I'll just. Yeah, I'll. He's the. The big dog in the yard, so I'll go for. I'll go after him, right? And I'm not thinking about part two of this. I'm just thinking I'm gonna. They're on me. I can't not commit. I can't freeze. So I run up behind you and I always tell people I hit you really super hard. I don't think I did, but I think I hit you hard enough that you could not not sell. You could not. You had to know someone was at least behind.

[C]

I had to register.

[B]

Yeah, I had to do something. But I hit you in the back. And then I saw you flip your hair and you started backpedaling again in the slasher style. And you're turning. I'm. Oh, man. Oh, Like, I'm the heel now. And they're filming now they're on just us. It's a two shot. This looks like it was a pre call. This looks like the spot, but this isn't the spot I would have ever prepared. And now I'm thinking, well, obviously he's. You just sell at this point. This is an easy gig at this point. Not my ideal go, but just sell. He's gonna goozle you, whatever it may be. And you did. So you goozle me, thinking, well, here we go. I'm going up. And this is the era of jump as high as you can, which I wish that era would come back. Like, jump as high as you can. Try and jump higher than your buddy. All those things, right? So you goozle me, but then you like kind of shaking me. And you said, kick me in the knee. I kicked you in the knee. And I'm thinking, all right, I have no clue. We're in uncharted territory here. But you still kind of half got me. And he said, drop kick me. I do a drop kick, thinking, oh, all right, great. I drop kick you. And you took this big bump. You took this big bump. And I thought, 21 years old, no clue. Like, I don't even know where to get my gear from at this point. I don't even know how I got called up. I know I got called up. I was Dusty's son and they thought, oh, he's ready. Long before I was ready to go. But I'm so glad I got that experience because nothing could have prepared me for anything like that. But the best part is you took this great bump. And in my mind I'm thinking, that's great. Undertaker's cool. He's the coolest. But also, what do you do? It's the objective is to throw another guy out. So I'm not gonna pick you up. I just kind of go over to a corner and grab a leg. And I think you kind of came and got me. Like, hey, what's up, man? Like, hey. Like, hey. And like, to finish, like, you can't just drop kick me and take a.

[C]

But.

[B]

And then not. Nothing happened, but I had nothing else. And it ended up being this great moment. There's a really great picture, and it's the garden. I got to be in there for a little bit and feel it. And this was the rumble where Michael Hayes was telling everybody to sell for everyone. Fast forward to years later when he's like, don't sell for everyone.

[C]

Don't sell for everyone.

[B]

What?

[C]

Which is it?

[B]

Freebird. But that was just such a great moment. Thank you, by the way. That was really special. I also. The art of calling it never saw it. Just you and Hunter and the talking carny or hair in front of your mouth. Whatever it was magic was not revealed. And I thought that's just. I got so much out of it. The smallest thing.

[C]

Yeah. There's times I would choose those kind of instances to do things that even you. Yeah. Like, oh, he's gonna kill me now. He's gonna.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

You know, I just. I like to create little moments like that in those kind of matches that catch people off guard. Yeah. Right. And then, you know, what you do with that after the fact is kind of left up to you. But it's like people are, like, looking around like, what the. Yeah. What happened? What just happened there? Right. And sometimes, you know, sometimes it helps, sometimes it doesn't.

[B]

But it's worth taking the shot.

[C]

It's worth taking the shot sometimes. Right. It's not gonna hurt me.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Right. But what it potentially could do for. For you or whoever I'm doing that kind of stuff with.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

It could potentially, you know, turn it into something really good. So that's.

[B]

Cheers.

[C]

Cheers.

[B]

For sure. Thank you. Cheers. As we wrap up this wonderful speakeasy busy signal in Austin, Texas, I have to ask you. We ask everybody who comes on the podcast, Wheatley, American Vodka, and myself, we like to consider ourselves the American dream team. And I like to ask everyone who is their dream team? And I always say, it can be zombie apocalypse, it can be Survivor series. It can be a man and his dog. It's your number of people or objects or animals. It's. It's. Who's coming with you?

[C]

Who's coming with me?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And how many do I need?

[B]

Four. Four. Four is a safe, safe spot.

[C]

Four is a safe spot.

[B]

Four safe spot. Yep.

[C]

My dream Team. I have to start with my brother. You know, Kane's got my back on that. So my dream team, I'm gonna take. I'm gonna take Sean with me.

[B]

Oh, wow. All right.

[C]

Kurt angle.

[B]

Okay. So no one's gonna beat this team at all. Yeah. Already. Already.

[C]

No, we're talking, like, we're. We're talking a wrestling match.

[B]

It's a dream team. Right? It's a dream team.

[C]

Are we talking, like, going into a bar fight or are we talking about a wrestling match?

[B]

I think in both settings, this kind of is working because the fact that you have Kurt.

[C]

Well, Kurt helps.

[B]

Yeah, Kurt's helping a lot.

[C]

Yeah, we got. We got Sean to get us into the fight.

[B]

Yep.

[C]

And we got Kurt to get you out, Kane to get us out.

[B]

Yep.

[C]

I need one more.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Andre.

[B]

Well, that's. That's the Forever 5 on 5 champ for.

[C]

Yeah. We're not doing too many jobs.

[B]

No, I don't think you're doing any.

[C]

No.

[B]

I tried to. Back in the day, my dad would have me come up with war games teams in the car. He'd be like, what's your team? And he'd always be, yeah, it's not good. It's not good. And I finally was like, what's the problem with this team? He goes, you gotta pick someone who can lose.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And I thought, oh, oh, all right, all right, we'll put him in there, you know? Yeah. Because I was just picking every awesome top talent.

[C]

See, that's next level thinking, though. Yeah. Like, he's thinking, as the booker, you gotta be able to beat somebody here.

[B]

But I feel like those old war games, it was so clearly JJ Dillon or Paul Ellering. It was almost like you isolated.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Don't get near, you know, Paul a little bit. He's holding the zone. But don't get near jj. There's a whole nother psychology to it. Like, once they do same with Bobby Heenan in a lot of those settings. Right here at Busy Signal, I'm going to show you this Wheatley vodka jingle, and I'm going to ask you to change one of the words to it. Here you go. Watching Moscow, Always get the mule Vodka this good is an American jewel. Wheatley so good, I drink it neatly. If you could take the word neatly and replace it with anything, what would you do? Wheatley so good, I drink it nightly. Nightly. That's perfect. Ladies and gentlemen, hall of famer on. What do you want to talk about? And please catch part two as I am coming to your podcast.

[C]

Yeah, it's happening. Yeah.

[B]

Ladies and gentlemen, the undertaker.

[C]

Oh.

[B]

If you're the purchasing manager at a manufacturing plant, you know having a trusted partner makes all the difference. That's why, hands down, you count on Grainger for auto reordering. With on time restocks, your team will have the cut resistant gloves they need at the start of their shift and you can end your day knowing they've got safety well in hand. Call 1-800-granger. Click granger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done.