Do You Want More?!!!??! Part 2

Summary

What Had Happened Was — "Do You Want More?!!!??! Part 2"

Podcast by Stony Island Audio & Talkhouse
Host: Open Mike Eagle
Guest: Ahmir “Questlove” Thompson
Season 4, Episode 5 | Released November 8, 2023

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Episode Overview

In this installment of "What Had Happened Was," host Open Mike Eagle continues his in-depth conversation with Questlove, legendary drummer and leader of The Roots, digging further into the making of the group’s groundbreaking second album, Do You Want More?!!!??! The episode explores the technical innovations, production philosophies, and creative decisions that made the record distinct from their debut (Organix), with rich stories about studio experiments, crew dynamics, influences from hip hop and jazz, legendary mixes, and a full appreciation for Black Thought’s versatile MC skills.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Evolving the Sound: From "Organix" to "Do You Want More?"

• Sonic Ambitions and Studio Upgrades

  • Questlove explains the need to "ramp our game up" sonically beyond their debut, Organix.
    • “How can we sonically ramp our game up from Organics?” (02:31, Questlove)
  • Big technical leap: hiring Bob Power, engineer known for work with De La Soul and A Tribe Called Quest.
    • “Bob Power is the answer. So we locked him down to mix. Bob Power did all of our favorite records.” (02:56, Questlove)
  • The band wanted the live feel but the punch and clarity of classic hip hop.

• Mixing Live Instruments with Hip-Hop Aesthetics

  • The challenge: translating Roots' full-band sound through the lens of hip hop engineering.
    • Bob Power delivered: “loud drums and bass – and you didn’t lose the vocals.” (03:04, Questlove)
    • Open Mike Eagle and Black Thought riff on classic mix lines, referencing Bob Power’s signature style. (03:00–03:14)

The Philly Context and Identity

• Philly’s Sonic Reputation

  • The Roots resisted Philly’s then-stereotypical sound, instead aspiring to New York’s golden-era innovators.
  • Questlove recalls, “We weren’t looking at Philly acts…we gotta be as innovative as Dayla, Tribe…just to get our foot in the door.” (06:08–06:48)

• Kelo Saunders: The Human Ableton

  • Kelo Saunders was brought in to engineer, chop, re-EQ, and "sample" Questlove’s live drumming, triggering extra percussion and aligning the band with hip hop’s breakbeat tradition.
    • “All they wanted to do was literally take everything that we did and line it up and add more oomph to it.” (08:47, Questlove)

• The “Nigga Drums” Compliment

  • Q-Tip’s infamous description of The Roots’ essence—Questlove recounts:
    • “Yo, man…the reason why I love y’all, cause you sound like nigga drums.” (10:29, recounted by Questlove)
  • Questlove reflects on acceptance and pushback against genre labels, e.g., “neo soul.”

Black Thought’s Supernatural MC Skillset

• The "In Your Dreams" Experiment

  • The group recorded “In Your Dreams,” which had Black Thought impersonating a pantheon of classic MCs (Q-Tip, Pete Rock, Chuck D, Ice Cube, Method Man, etc.), showcasing his mimicry and writing ability.
  • Questlove: “So that way people can see that Tariq is literally every MC.” (13:50)
  • Time-intensive work: took “seven weeks to mix” versus the standard “seven to seventeen hours.” (13:50, Questlove)

• Open Mike Eagle's Awe—and Intimidation

  • OME repeatedly expresses awe (and self-doubt) in hearing Black Thought’s versatility.
    • “Like, I’ve never felt worse about being an emcee in my life.” (22:07, Open Mike Eagle)
    • Questlove: “He’s empathic, man...he’ll listen to it to know what not to do. Wow. [...] He might be the greatest ever.” (22:33–25:30)

• Black Thought as a Cultural Sponge

  • Nothing is off-limits for Black Thought—he studies every MC, "even if it’s bad," to absorb something from everyone.
    • Questlove: “Tariq is literally a sponge, and there is no MC that’s off limits…” (25:14)

Building the Album: Studio Stories

• Fractured Recording Process

  • Production was complex and piecemeal—songs constructed in "quarters":
    • First quarter: tracks for “From the Ground Up.”
    • Sessions fragmented; Questlove: “It was a fragmented section…we chip a little bit, a bit at a time.” (27:51)
  • Manager Rich Nichols’ tough calls kept the album on track under tight deadlines.

• Legendary Track Origins: "Proceed"

  • Roots of “Proceed” linked to an old gospel tour groove.
  • Malik B often the most enthusiastic about groove ideas, rallying the group.

• Cross-Pollination with Jazz Musicians

  • The Roots aligned with the progressive jazz collective M-Base (Greg Osby, Steve Coleman, Cassandra Wilson).
  • Questlove discusses the contrast between the tradition of Wynton Marsalis and the experimental edge of M-Base.
    • “M-Base would have been what drill music is or trap music is to a traditionalist in hip hop. They wanted to push the culture forward.” (40:32, Questlove)

Key Crew Members and Emergent Talent

• Dice Raw: The Young Wildcard

  • Kelo also introduces Dice Raw—a wisecracking, prodigious 13-year-old who’d become a Roots mainstay:
    • “Dice was like this 13 year old, but he had a Redd Foxx blue humor, like a 1940s old ass man. He was like a Black Rodney Dangerfield, but he was 13. Like he had everything but a cigar.” (36:49, Questlove)

• Group Tightening

  • Over time, The Roots’ lineup for recording tightened, focusing on Tariq (Black Thought) and Malik B, with fewer extended crew features to present a distinct, core identity.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Bob Power’s Magic (02:56–03:13)

• Questlove: “Bob Power did all of our favorite records, all the DeLa stuff, all the Tribe stuff…loud drums and bass – and you didn’t lose the vocals.”

Q-Tip’s Unforgettable Praise (10:29–10:52)

• Questlove: “Tip always had a term…yo, man, the reason why I love y’all: you sound like nigga drums.”

Black Thought’s Mimicry Masterclass (13:50–23:30)

• Questlove: “We were going to be like, yo, the first thing that comes out has to be In Your Dreams, so that way people can see that Tariq is literally every MC.”
• Open Mike Eagle: “Like, I’ve never felt worse about being an emcee in my life.” (22:07)
• Questlove: “He’s empathic, man…he’ll listen to it to know what not to do. He might be the greatest ever.” (22:33–25:30)

Digable Planets’ Grammy Radicalism (32:25–33:14)

• [Digable Planets, accepting the Grammy:]
  “We’d like to thank the Academy for recognizing us. So people, peace to the gods on Earth and Nation of Islam…They not out there eating at all.”
• Questlove (on its impact): “That was the most radical thing we ever seen…they’re not playing the game…which means it’s gonna be an empty platform. And the second we get our chance, we’re gonna grab that platform.” (32:56–33:14)

On M-Base and Jazz Progression (39:02–40:32)

• Questlove: “The jazz version of the Native Tongues was a collective called M-Base…M-Base would have been what drill music is or trap music is to a traditionalist in hip hop. They wanted to push the culture forward, right? So we wanted to roll with the progressive crew.”

Dice Raw’s Introduction (36:49)

• Questlove: “Dice was like this 13 year old, but he had a Redd Foxx blue humor, like a 1940s old ass man. He was like a Black Rodney Dangerfield, but he was 13. Like he had everything but a cigar.”

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:31] - Why Bob Power was hired; the Roots’ sonic ambitions post-Organix
• [04:46] - Kelo Saunders and the Philly hip hop scene’s production culture
• [08:47] - Kelo’s approach: treating Questlove’s drums as samples
• [10:29] - Q-Tip’s description of “nigga drums” and genre labels
• [13:50] - “In Your Dreams” session and Black Thought’s MC impersonations
• [22:07] - Open Mike Eagle expresses awe/intimidation at Black Thought
• [25:14] - Tariq’s openness and sponge-like approach to MC influences
• [32:25] - Digable Planets’ Grammy speech and its effect on The Roots’ ambition
• [36:49] - The arrival and colorful personality of Dice Raw
• [39:02] - Jazz collectives, M-Base, Wynton Marsalis, and progressive musical alliances

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Tone & Style Notes

The episode is marked by Open Mike Eagle’s playful humility, Questlove’s encyclopedic recall and wry anecdotes, and a sense of awe for the creative process. Questlove’s passion for both technical craft and cultural context guides the conversation, while Open Mike Eagle acts as a relatable and curious fan, constantly impressed by The Roots’ history and Black Thought’s unmatched talent.

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For Listeners Who Missed It

This episode is a treasure trove for:

• Roots fans eager for behind-the-scenes detail
• Hip hop heads fascinated by the art of production & MCing
• Music history buffs tracking the intersections of jazz and rap
• Aspiring artists looking to understand the hours of labor, creativity, and scientific study that form the bedrock of great music

The show maintains its sense of fun and reverence while breaking down the making of a classic album—a must-listen for anyone passionate about hip hop’s golden age and ongoing evolution.

Transcript

[Open Mike Eagle]

For the kids and you. What up? This is Open Mike Eagle. Welcome back to what it happened was we are deep into do you want more territory? This is season four, episode five with our season long guest quest. Love this episode. We start out with the technical decisions that went into how they wanted to make do youo Want More sound different than their previous work. And then we get a full display of why Black Thought is widely considered the greatest MC on the planet. You get to be an audio witness to me feeling bad about myself being a rapper by how good that he is. Then we get the origin stories of more root songs from do youo Want More? Including the classic pro seed. You can support this podcast using the codes and the ads and spreading the words to folks you know who dig this kind of untold hip hop history. The opposite of history is the future. And in the near future I'm gonna be going on tour playing my rap music. I'm gonna be playing Houston, Dallas, New Orleans, Brooklyn, Philly, D.C. boston, Miami and Orlando all in December. You can find [e-mail] and this podcast is part of the Stony Island Audio Network, the home for rap podcast that you can actually listen to. And with that, let's get into season four. Episode five of what had Happened was this is do you want two? This is open mic Eagles. This is season four. What it happened was we pretty deep into it but the question remains. Do you want more? Do you want more? Ask for encore we slide to condor so shout to the sponsors we got to the top floor saw organic like we pass to the popcorn Come on and get on board do you want more? Ask for encores Flies and condors shout out to the sponsors that got to the top floor it's all organic like you passing the popcorn Come on and get on board the train Crazy as oscorns I asked if you want more you ask for encore we slide as a condor shouts to the sponsors we got to the top floor it's all organic like we passing a concord Want more? Ask for encore Flies and condors shout to the sponsors we got to the top floor it's all organic like.

[Questlove]

One of the main questions, how can we sonically ramp our game up from organics? So it was two important figures to that. Number one was reading album credits and we discovered that Bob Power. Bob Power is the answer. So we locked him down to mix. Bob Power did all of our favorite records, all the Delos stuff, all the tribe stuff.

[Tariq (Black Thought)]

Fucking with the ab you got the greatest of gifts say yo my mic is sound Above. Bob Power, you there?

[Questlove]

Yeah.

[Tariq (Black Thought)]

Adjust the bass in treble. Make my shit sound clear.

[Questlove]

I mean, with Tri Balloon, it's just like you wanted your stuff. Bob Power made loud drums and bass, and you didn't lose the vocals.

[Open Mike Eagle]

Super clean vocals. Yeah.

[Tariq (Black Thought)]

One for the trouble, two for the bass. You know, the style clip. It's time to flip this. I like my beats hard.

[Open Mike Eagle]

Like two.

[Questlove]

They own beats.

[Tariq (Black Thought)]

Beats that are hard, beats that are funky. They could get your hook like a crackhead Chunky. What you gotta do is know the tribe is in the.

[Questlove]

So it had the gritty feel of a Jungle Brothers record, but it didn't sound like it was made in a basement. It wasn't muddy for 399. Right. So it was clear. So, but what.

[Open Mike Eagle]

How did Bob feel about mixing? I mean, he's. He's coming from his experiences mixing hip hop on basically, beats made with drum machines and samplers and y' all coming in with a full band. I mean, I'm sure he's got. He was experienced with that because he's probably recorded bands.

[Questlove]

Well, he was instantly in love with us.

[Open Mike Eagle]

Okay.

[Questlove]

You know, because again, like the older white people, it's like, again, we're.

[Open Mike Eagle]

We're.

[Questlove]

We're going off the novelty of like. I mean, Bob was not one of those. Well, I don't like hip hop, but I like you guys. But, I mean, this is a guy that made De La Soul is dead. Blue mind state, right? Low end theory.

[Open Mike Eagle]

Mind state, of course.

[Tariq (Black Thought)]

Look, Ma, no protection. Now I got a daughter named Ayanna Monet and I could play the cowboy to rustle in the dough so the scenery is healthy where her eyes lay I am an only bird but the.

[Questlove]

Feather to really ensure that we had that we could keep our lives sound but sonically be pleasing so that when you played it in the car system, which, you know was the standard.

[Open Mike Eagle]

Right.

[Questlove]

Enter a gentle name named Kelo Saunders.

[Open Mike Eagle]

Kilo. I see his name all over the credits.

[Questlove]

Right. So again, when in the last episode, when we first met AJ Shine at the strip club that we played on the very last day of busking, his partner, Rich Richard. Richard Nichols, our manager, was his cameraman for his. His video show. Yeah, his version of video music box was just called the Avenue Richard and Hub, the bass player, they worked at temple. And they were right government grants. They would write letters to get government grants to teach kids how to make hip hop. And in the circle was Shorty Nomas that they already sent to Dela. And, well, there was Hub. And then There was Scott Storch as well, and then there was Kilo. And Kilo was basically kind of like Philly's best beat maker. And the thing was, is that we instantly knew coming from Philly, like, again, the image of Philly was more like the drug dealer. If you Google, like, cool Cs, I gotta have it album cover.

[Open Mike Eagle]

I got.

[Tariq (Black Thought)]

A habit it's like a disease it pertains to question of speeds When I rock I'm in a deadly rage I'm at a cell on a sucker rampage.

[Questlove]

Or steady B album cover, you know, they wore, like, the German Alpena sunglasses. They were like corner boy drug dealer types. And really just like, in terms like, production, like, three times dope was hip, but, like, mostly with the, like. Jeff was an exception because Jeff was literally using jazz. Like, jazzy Jeff was using jazz samples, which, you know, of course they were so early in the game that once, like, 91 came around, then it's like Tribe and Main Source and like the. What we call the Renaissance period of hip hop. But, you know, for the most part, like, Philly, hip hop was just like sampling pedestrian things, like, you know, schooly D sampling. Thank you for letting me be myself again. We felt like we had to be New York intelligent to at least halfway compete. So we weren't looking at Philly acts. We were looking at, like, yo, we gotta be as innovative as Dayla Tribe and like, that sort of thing just to get our foot in the door. Not even to win, but to get our foot in the door. So Kelo had that sense and that sensibility to make beats. Like, his record collection was diverse. So his job was basically. Kilo's job was basically to be human, Ableton. Like, if you listen to Distortion of Static, how disconnected the drums are. Like, you'll hear it right here. Ah, so you'll hear little gaps there and whatnot. That's because Kilo literally would take four bars at a time. Everything that I did on the reel, right? And then he would EQ it. He would manipulate the sound like he is. He would put in the S9. Like, he would literally, it's me. But he would treat me as a sample. As a sample, but not in the way that we wound up doing. Because by the time we got to Illidolf Half Life, I'm like, yo, like, forget. Just take four bars and let's act like I'm a record. But all they wanted to do was literally take everything that we did and line it up and add more oomph to it. So like what we call triggering. So if I would hit a drum, another sound would come, like a hand clap or that sort of thing. So, you know, Organics is just bare bones drums. Whereas now it was just a long process. So from 12 in the afternoon to about 6 is us recording and making the songs. And then while Tariq and Malik are working on lyrics, then Keelo is taking all that we did and lining it up and making it so that when Bob mixes it, it sounds meteor. You know what I mean? It was just like a long ass process to do. But, you know, but there was also another nightmare. So what really, if you remember, I told you in Organics that we just knocked song after song, like in a second, even though we didn't say it out loud. We were relying on the idea of the Roots and the novelty of the roots. Like, yo, oh my God, you see that trick he did? So we already knew that a band that had like breakbeat sensibility unlike any other, you know, because all you had to compare it to was like the brand new heaviest rhyme experience, one which sounded like acid jazz, You know, or.

[Open Mike Eagle]

Even somebody like us three, like, you know, that's the stuff that was in the ether in terms of jazz rap at. Right.

[Questlove]

So it's just really no oomph right to it.

[Tariq (Black Thought)]

What's that?

[Questlove]

I mean, they had the right idea, but it was. No, I mean, I had a question here.

[Open Mike Eagle]

I was going to ask you, like, what you thought the difference was and how the Roots ended up sounding more like classic hip hop with a band versus these other things that were out and happening.

[Questlove]

So Tip. Tip always had a term that, I mean, even though I never used it. But Tip is always like, yo, man, the reason why I love y'. All. Cause you. You sound like nigga drums. Any. Anytime.

[Open Mike Eagle]

You gotta put that in your bio or something.

[Questlove]

No, seriously, Q Tips sound like nigga drums. Nigga drums. That's why I like y', all, man.

[Open Mike Eagle]

Y', all.

[Questlove]

Y' all got the right, you know, Sonic nigger drums. You know, everyone wants to rebel once a title gets handed to them. I wasn't one of those people because then I also don't like. Like, during the whole Neo soul period of 99, 2000, everyone's like, I'm not Neo Soul, right? Which is kind of coded for, like, I don't want to be associated with them. And I'm like, well, by the Transit Vaccine theory, if they're calling you Neo Soul, and I know they're calling me Neo Soul, are you saying that you're better than me, so. Which is why I just never paid it really any attention. But we relied on the novelty of the band. And I'll tell you what really stalled us. Because the thing was, it was going to be, yo, we're a band that has breakbeat sensibility. But then we got this rhyming ass mc that's literally every mc, right. So the. The first thing that we did was have. You have. You're in your dreams, kid.

[Open Mike Eagle]

No, I don't think so.

[Questlove]

All right, so I'll just play like a minute of it.

[Open Mike Eagle]

So you can see now where does this come from?

[Questlove]

So this was the very. Okay, so that first. The first week of getting. The first week of getting from the ground up out the way. So we, you know, we recorded Mel and My man. We recorded Distortion of Static. We recorded It's Coming, we recorded do youo Want More. And we have recorded that scat. So at least we have recorded it. And we knew that Christmas week, that was. Bob was still working with Michelle and Daggiel Jella on the follow up to Plantation's Lullaby. I think she's, like, started on her piece Beyond Passion thing. And this. This other guy named Mike, whom. I don't know who that guy is. Right. I'll explain later.

[Open Mike Eagle]

He'll come up later.

[Questlove]

Right. And so he had Christmas week off, but he really liked. He was excited about the idea of this. Wow. Like, live band. Normally he would have taken Christmas off, but it's like, I want to be a part of this. So all Christmas week we mixed those songs. So once that was done that week, the next week we're going to start working on what was going to be called Homegrown. We didn't call it do youo Want More until later, but in our mind, the album's called Homegrown. And so the very first song we worked on to tell you how nightmarish this thing was, once I found the reels for the anniversary box set reissue, the deluxe version.

[Open Mike Eagle]

I'm looking at it right now.

[Questlove]

Right? It's.

[Open Mike Eagle]

It.

[Questlove]

It took me and Bob seven weeks to mix this. Normally it should take 17 hours. Seven to 17 hours to mix it, not 17 weeks. So literally. All right, I'll give you like a minute and a half of it so you can get the gist. So we were going to be like, yo, the first thing that comes out has to be in your dreams. So that way people can see that Tariq is literally every mc. Yes. We got premiere in 2021 to do these cuts. Oh, this Is the story of a champions. So this is 93.

[Tariq (Black Thought)]

From guys off you just released Denier Goofy Go La la. That's why I told Premier to get out turntables and box to shout thousand show you how I get diastole rising to the fullest capacity Indeed I ascend to a level of great mind.

[Questlove]

I say we did this in 93, we might have made this in January 94. Now think of it because if you remember the beat to. All right chill. It's an interlude where Nas calls up Premier like Premier and he plays like a little bit of the Monty Alexandra Lovin hat. All right, chill. And you hear the jump.

[Tariq (Black Thought)]

Yo, it's Nas.

[Questlove]

All right, chill.

[Tariq (Black Thought)]

Hey, local man, what's up? This your AG just calling say what's up yo. All right, chill.

[Questlove]

Obviously I must have had I think like maybe three weeks before it came out this gangstar record.

[Tariq (Black Thought)]

So indeed I ascend to a level of great mind state. All of those are fake have to fill the check Nice week because this ain't a myth it's for real and I'm to free feel that your juvenile five stars could never amaze me JB's in a house.

[Questlove]

Oh shit. Now mind you, this is also before Pro Tools. This is basically 840 second songs that we would have to paste together. So.

[Tariq (Black Thought)]

Can I kick it? Yes, you can.

[Questlove]

That's crazy.

[Tariq (Black Thought)]

Peace to my father name is Q Tim Levic Lita the Dada what's the presentation of the midnight Movata Notice how I'm representing queens like a banner know.

[Questlove]

I represent queens like a I sent tip this in the pandemic he's like when did I make this? He still didn't get it. Like he. It took about three conversations. I'm like, this is Tariq doing you back in 93. He's like what happened? I was. It was a nightmare to record it in 1987.

[Tariq (Black Thought)]

Yeah, I used to do the WAP I'm never selling out because I choose a hip hop you get up in your socks say rocks it don't stop like my nigga Bear rock from a bandicore beat up the power up flows like a shower Rap so fresh that I just can't sour Make a new track every hour on the hour I'm on them seas flat like my man Eddie LA world class producer I make the party looser Known to turn a stone like Medusa Turntables is turning direct.

[Open Mike Eagle]

Who is this? Who is this supposed to be?

[Questlove]

P Rock.

[Open Mike Eagle]

Oh, that's.

[Tariq (Black Thought)]

Labor Since I can't Help my mother it's like that if not it's like this or the other the other the other, the other the other. Chemistry coming with the Wu Tang ministry Shaolin samurai style watch I rock 40 people in block with the clan again. Who I be? I p d met hod.

[Questlove]

All right, this next one I cheated I didn't like my drums for Chuck D Uhhuh. So I redid them in 2021. And you can hear the sonic difference of right. There's a more nuanced quest love versus the quest love that didn't know any.

[Tariq (Black Thought)]

Further Wait a minute now. Officials that in charge don't give a as long as they make a buck who could complain to the public. Come and get some we know the odds is best but if we die we die as one Panic what an Armageddon's coming Shots when you're from the tower got the devil running I be the properism terminator on a failure greatest of all time.

[Questlove]

And as you can clearly hear like in my mind, all I wanted to do was get like my bomb squad nut off. Like, just very chaotic. Like none of. None of this chaotic sort of bomb squad was even a thing in 94 so Jamaican moves travel back the furthest.

[Tariq (Black Thought)]

To back before grandmama ever sported house coats and curlers the gall metaphysical to fit with New York City ignition another sound wiser statistic these is all fidez narcissistic the leaders is the natural mystic Ladies and gentlemen I keep a gun in a vulture I know it ain't the one and a holster call them ghosters I keep them full of vultures and cockroaches Bunnet noches I turn certified two more leftist I'm a beef like an American were comparatives so I spare you the embarrassment of having a defeat the surgeon and then the physical therapist I was a pimp in the 70s it's flying the upper hustler instead of me lowercase letter GS the craft screaming and let him breathe But I never let him leave I keep them all together like metal leave it's like that y' all get the gas, get the eye black head bust with the crackle and back talk whack y' all get the hacks on yeah nap four coogee rap back yo, it's the same old lynch mom it's still going on get.

[Questlove]

Out of here Full of ghouls and.

[Tariq (Black Thought)]

Criminals the homie locked up and I ain't sending him home Tom Cluffer than the timberland solo yo, the president is the Number one crook in the area and cold like Siberia Bulsteria the predator has a gun in the badge Ain't no hoods and confederate flags but trip the unseen enemies probably even more danger. Cause they ain't coming as a stranger they take the underground railroad. Will the boys in the hood let Ice Cube fell though? Hell no. I got games but I don't play I fight the power anyway A modern day revolutionary, always on the job.

[Questlove]

Lynch mob versus lynch mob, yo, so.

[Open Mike Eagle]

First of all, I just gotta say this. Like, I've never felt worse about being an emcee in my life.

[Questlove]

It's right now, dude.

[Open Mike Eagle]

Like, just the amount of artistic development it takes to even solidly sound like yourself, let alone for him to not only have the cadences of all these.

[Questlove]

Other people, he's empathic, man.

[Open Mike Eagle]

Not only have the vocal tics of.

[Questlove]

All these people, but to have the.

[Open Mike Eagle]

Writing styles of each individual.

[Questlove]

Mc Tariq and I, like, I mean, we basically said, like, in order for us to make a mark, we have to scientifically study the DNA of every participant in this culture.

[Open Mike Eagle]

Come on.

[Questlove]

And so. And Tariq's even better than me. Cause there was a point where, like, I would start to get snobby and I go on the bus. I'm like, really eight ball and mjg, really eight ball will come out hard.

[Tariq (Black Thought)]

With the gangster lean. Go slime for the women that be jocking the green. I'm a pimpster, not a trick on a strobe. You gotta build that thing.

[Questlove]

And. And, you know, I was at Snob at one point, and Tariq was like, nah, man, like, you got it. Tariq was literally the one. Like any. I would come off snobby and judgmental. You know, he had straight out of Compton. I'm like, come on. Don't they got Jerry curls and eight on jackets? Like, this is what you listen to. And he played me the police. And I was like, what, what, what?

[Tariq (Black Thought)]

The police coming straight from the underground. A young got it bad cause I'm brown and not the other color. So police think they have the authority to kill a minority. That shit. Cause I ain't the one For a punk with a badge and a gun to be beaten on.

[Questlove]

Yo, he's like, yo, man, turn this mother out. Hammer. Really?

[Open Mike Eagle]

Hammer? Now that one's surprising.

[Questlove]

Yo, the reason, the real reason, yes, we love cool G raps. Men at work. But the real reason he wanted to rhyme over Apache. I think it more had to do with Hammer rhyming over.

[Tariq (Black Thought)]

Yo, where the freaks at? Looking at me. You want to see Black? Then jump on it until the jumpsuit. Think they might want it? I might spot your ride and dump on it. I send a couple of balls to that corner of yours and roll out with a nigga slumped on it. You see Black fall back. So.

[Questlove]

Tariq is literally a sponge, and there is no MC that's off limits in terms of. Even if. Even if it's bad.

[Open Mike Eagle]

He'll find something.

[Questlove]

He'll listen to it to know what not to do. Wow. You know what I'm saying?

[Open Mike Eagle]

He might be the greatest ever. And I feel very intimidated.

[Tariq (Black Thought)]

Played by samuel l. Jackson. Yo ill insanity is cold and morbid.

[Questlove]

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[Open Mike Eagle]

I see.

[Tariq (Black Thought)]

It on their faces.

[Questlove]

I thought that was one of the most confusing tracking sheets I've ever seen. This, by far. Sons that. And it was so confusing. Like, we literally had to have a meeting on how to record it and then how to piece it together when we record it.

[Open Mike Eagle]

So you had to cut tape and all of that to.

[Questlove]

Well, no, no, no. We. It was a fragmented section. So basically it'd be like, where are you going to studio work today? All right, I'm gonna work on Ice Cube. And then. And then. Right, and then do that. And Kilo. Basically, like, piecing everything together and all that stuff and then taking the. The drums and mixing and all that stuff. We do a little bit. We chip A little bit, A bit at a time. Because do you want more? Is done. Done in. In quarters. There's first quarter, which was all the songs that wound up on from the Ground Up. Meanwhile, this. A little bit at a time for this thing. And it's like, you done yet?

[Open Mike Eagle]

You done yet?

[Questlove]

You done yet? So technically, what happens to us in April is what Then finally, you know, Rich is like, I gotta pull the plug. And, you know, our survival's based on this record being done immediately. So, you know, he will say, like, we'll save it for next record. But, you know, deep down's like, we return to this, right? So we just finished it. But then like mixing it would have been a nightmare.

[Open Mike Eagle]

Yeah, for sure.

[Questlove]

And it was like eight reels. So we just like, we did it. And I vowed like, okay, if we ever have an anniversary issue or something like that, then I'm going to try to challenge and do this thing. So, second quarter. I believe the first thing we worked on. Yeah, second quarter was, if you remember, right before we got our record deal, like there was a period right between Mercury Records and Geffen and Hub. And I happened to be like, on this really horrible gospel tour, I think Ben Presley and Friends or something like that. It was like a Philly, a Philly gospel group. And we're in a 15 passenger van cramped up with like our instruments, whatever, playing like these churches in the middle of nowhere, America for pennies at a time. And the opening groove, we had like a little opening go go groove, Like a real go go. And I remember we were in the studio, I was like, huh, what was that, what was that intro joint we used to do, like, for that gospel group O.

[Tariq (Black Thought)]

Rock the mic with Tooth Decay. I be the 5 foot 7 residing at the Mecha Rest addressing South section used to cut class in the infinite.

[Questlove]

It's so weird. Like, now I think about it, Malik was definitely the spirit of what wound up getting chosen. Like, Tariq will be slow to be like. I mean, Tariq won't get excited. Like, yo, yeah, that's what's up. But Malik would always be like, ooh, ooh, keep on doing that. I like that. And Rich and Joe were like, yeah, that's something. Make that into a song. And then Scott like started taking the chords and then. And then Proceed starts. Proceed. So there's Proceed. I remember when we did what Goes on. What goes on the night we did what Goes On. I believe that Digable Planets had just won their Grammy for Cool like that. You know, Ish and Knowledge are Like Philly related. Yeah, there's this sort of, like I mentioned before, like, you know, Philly was. Or hip hop was just really deep into the 7%. The 7% of the thing. 5% of I'm sorry, I want to get the universal beat down. Sorry, the 5% of the thing. And I remember their, their, their acceptance speech.

[Tariq (Black Thought)]

And the Grammy goes to.

[Questlove]

Planet and Bertha Slick.

[Open Mike Eagle]

Like.

[Tariq (Black Thought)]

On behalf of my crew, I.

[Questlove]

Want to say that we like for.

[Tariq (Black Thought)]

Everybody to think about the people right outside this door that's homeless as you sitting in these $900 seats and $300 seats.

[Questlove]

They not out there eating at all.

[Tariq (Black Thought)]

We'd like to thank the Academy for recognizing us. So people, peace to the gods on.

[Questlove]

Earth and Nation of Islam, Digimon, Planet say peace.

[Tariq (Black Thought)]

Thank you very much.

[Questlove]

That was the most radical thing we ever seen. You know, it's like, yo, peace of the gods of the earth and the true. And I remember my manager saying, like, oh, yo, they just burnt a bridge and it's going to be vacant soon. In other words, he knew, like, yo, they're not going to continue this journey.

[Open Mike Eagle]

They're not playing the game.

[Questlove]

They're going to sabotage this journey. Which means it's gonna be an empty platform. And the second we get our chance, we're gonna grab that platform. So that really gave Rich sort of means to like, yo, like, let's finish this shit. So I definitely remember Tariq came up with Lazy Afternoon and do you want more? And I remain calm.

[Open Mike Eagle]

And.

[Questlove]

What goes on Part seven was done kind of in the second quarter. So Kilo also, this is something I also forgot to mention about Kelo. While Shorty Newmas was associated with Dela, right? Kilo caught the attention of Belbit Devoe and they're working on their follow up record to Poison, the Hootie Mac record Catch. So Kilo's part of the Bomb Squad Esque crew of producers. For some reason, I don't know why they decided Belvedere Devoe decided not to stick with the winning formula, what they had. And I guess, like, for budgeting sake, it's like, I mean, it's always the game where like an established person tries to find a hungrier, cheaper version of what they. So. Right. So all I remember was, I mean, probably second to my mom's escape was Kilo's escape from Belvedere Devoe headquarters. And Rich was basically like, yo, like, we're ready to record, like, come on home. And was like, well, you know, when they go on tour, all I remember was like he had to wait until the house was empty. I guess they were all like in a compound, a producer's compound. And he was basically like, all right, send me, give me a flight home. And I got to take these flight cases and all that stuff. Like he. I mean, they brought him the equipment, but I kind of think that they thought like, you know, if he leaves and the equipment stays with them and his mind's like, well, you brought me the equipment to work on this record and this is part of my pay, so I'm taking this back. So I definitely remember there was a lot of like calls from like a Boston number or whatever. Like, don't answer that phone. Like it's like Ron Devoe and Bev, like, where's our equipment at? That sort of thing, you know. So suddenly at my door, there's like 10 big ass Belvedevo flight cases like outside my crib. Like, what are we supposed to do with this? So, you know, Kilo's like moving into the house. I just got in South Philly, where we'll subsequently make the next five records. So he's setting up shop in my crib. So he had himself like a little crew. So with him is the brother Mars Co op who was the first guy on Clones.

[Tariq (Black Thought)]

First of all, let's talk about these ill capers and fly ass that now caught vapors run up on you with guns, snatching papers, outline body chalk is how they will scrape you off the pavement.

[Questlove]

And this ignorant ass 13 year old named Dice raw the lesson, how we.

[Open Mike Eagle]

Get to the lesson.

[Questlove]

Yeah, this just like Dice was just. Dice is like, you know, like what millennials or Gen Z are now tell us like, like you always need like a kid that's like younger than you to show you what's about to happen in the future. But Dice wasn't like any other kid. Dice was like this 13 year old, but he had like a red fox blue humor, like a 1940s old ass, man. He was like a black Rodney Dangerfield, but he was 13. Like he had everything but a cigar. Hey, let me show you something. No, my wife went dun dun. Like I was like, who is this kid? Like, where did he come from? Like, where the hell is he coming from? So I didn't know he rhymed. I just know that he smoked Mad Beatty's and every time I. Oh, dog, you already know what's up with Beatty's. Like the poor man's weed. Like he would just always be at the studio and I never knew what his purpose was. And I didn't know that Kilo was sort of like waiting for the moment to like, yo, he's like one of my artists, man. Like, let, let, let him get a chance.

[Open Mike Eagle]

Right on.

[Questlove]

And I was really guarded with that shit. Like, even though we had a crew, we had a foreign objects, but that shit sort of fell apart.

[Open Mike Eagle]

And then, yeah, going from organics. Do you want more? Y' all definitely cut a lot of that down to where it's just basically Malik and Tariq.

[Questlove]

Yeah, there. I mean, there was, well, Rouhani State Elohim. Like, Rouhani's on what goes on Part seven. And he will also wind up being on. Oh, he's. He's also on It's Coming and he will make a return on Dynamite. So he was there, but pretty much it was a roots affair as far as, like, guests were concerned. I think Rich purposely designed it so that he wanted to market us like a jazz group with hip hop sensibility. So I also forgot to mention, the jazz version of the Native Tongues was a collective called Embass.

[Open Mike Eagle]

Okay.

[Questlove]

I don't know what it stood for. Look up M Base. It might be an acronym for something, but Embass is a collective. Greg Osby, Steve Coleman, Cassandra Wilson, the late Jerry Allen. Embass was sort of like, should have been the next movement of jazz. And then what wound up happening, like around 84 is 83. 84 is like when Marcellus comes along rocking a suit and kind of playing the jazz. That made jazz aficionados feel like, super comfortable. And much to the disdain of jazz purists, you know, it didn't progress further. Like what Miles Davis was doing and what Embass was going to do, what David Murray was going to do.

[Open Mike Eagle]

Macro basic array of structured extemporization.

[Questlove]

That was scary for white people. Yeah, it was. And you know, Wynton Marcel's was safe and he was a traditionalist. But, you know, Wynton is a very controversial figure in the jazz world. Where. I mean. Yes, I mean, I respect him as a traditionalist.

[Open Mike Eagle]

Sure.

[Questlove]

Which is weird because I'm, you know, if allowed the keys to the kingdom, I might just carjack the culture of hip hop and go back to 1992. Like, this is what it should be. So I would be the villain to a lot of people, you know, so I'm not exactly talking down to Wynton Marsalis, because part of me is also Wynton Marsalis that wants the tradition. But Embass would have been what drill music is or trap music is. To a traditionalist in hip hop. They wanted to push the culture forward, right? So we wanted to roll with the progressive crew. So that's why Cassandra Wilson's on Swept Away and Silent Treatment. That's why all the horns are from Greg Osby and. And. And Steve Coleman. We wanted people to know, like, this is the crew we're down with. We're down with these jazz guys. But, oh, we're not corny, jazzy guys. Like, we're, you know, street motherfuckers that know our hip hop. And so that was the plan with it. So the last day of quarter three, which is the last day of recording, you know, Kilo was like, yo, man, give the boy a chance. I was like, all right, whatever, man. And I remember telling him, like, all right, so what you gonna do? He's like, I got it. I was like, where's the paper? He's like, I'll freestyle it.

[Tariq (Black Thought)]

I'll freestyle the wild get on a mic. Get on a mic. And perpetrating his voice I leave missing in action like the dads in the projects My style like a nomad Travel around and catch rat I'm ill versatile with the skill no more whack and sees one affect but this style ain't war Got to know the real meaning of the ill Shit, shit I knew mad damage but never will catch a bit. Stony island audio.