What Had Happened Was — Season 4, Episode 8: Illadelph Halflife Part 2

Podcast: What Had Happened Was
Host: Open Mike Eagle (Stony Island Audio & Talkhouse)
Guest: Ahmir 'Questlove' Thompson
Date: November 29, 2023

Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the creative process and inner turmoil behind The Roots’ third studio album, Illadelph Halflife. Questlove, with candid honesty, discusses the making of classic singles like “Clones”, collaborations with Common, the evolution of their live stagecraft, and the intense competitive spirit with peers—particularly shaped by events involving the Fugees. The episode provides a raw, behind-the-scenes look at the drive, insecurity, and ambition that fueled The Roots during a pivotal moment in hip hop’s golden era.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Formation and Tensions Behind “Clones”

• Questlove’s Ego and Insecurity:
  Questlove openly talks about his inner struggle during the album-making process:
  "I probably spent more time trying to sabotage the record than serving the record. Now, if the brain I had now was if I were able to transport myself back to 95, 96... Rule number one would have been serve the song." (02:31)
• Million Man March Anecdote:
  He recalls missing the Million Man March due to a bus scam and instead being sonically haunted by the creation of “Clones” by Kelo upstairs, feeling left out of the process.
  "Inside, I’m like, holy fucking shit... But then on the other side, it’s like, I had nothing to do with this song. What the fuck am I? I’m a fraud." (05:20)
• Technical Process:
  Questlove discusses drum triggering before the era of digital beatmaking:
  "We could take a part of the song and trigger it that way... You best believe I purposely went there to do that to remind people that human beings are here." (06:45)

2. Cover Art Mix-Ups and ‘No Frills’ Confusion

• Album Cover Inspiration:
  The 12” cover was modeled after No Frills products at Philly’s Pathmark grocery:
  "I just wanted to make the album cover reminiscent of the foods that we would buy." (08:37)
• Name Confusion with Another Band:
  Ali Shaheed Muhammad believed Questlove was dissing a band called No Frills; it was a genuine misunderstanding borne out of disconnected hip hop bubbles.
  "I grew up on No Frills... They were like, not for nothing, dog. We. We never heard of y’. All." (10:08)

3. Building the Roots Family and Common’s Move

• Common’s Integration:
  At a career crossroads, Common gravitates to the Roots' Philadelphia scene, seeking a new sound and creative haven:
  "Common is starting to think about his future as well... He wants to move to New York." (12:51)
• Early Collaborations:
  The tracks “You and I Verse at War” and “Episodes” emerge from this period (12:29–13:20).
• Roots' Creative Volume:
  The Roots are described as hyper-prolific, recording hundreds of sketches per album:
  "We are a 500 song recording unit... in our Tonight Show database... up to about easily 9,000 songs." (20:22)

4. The Philadelphia Blizzards and True Crime

• Snowstorm Sessions:
  The group is snowed in during the blizzard of 1995-96 and chooses to keep working. Malik B turns up late at night with a friend—later realized to be Snook Nooka, a local rapper and (as it turns out) bank robbery getaway driver.
  "So literally, all I know is that when we get to the end. So he shouts out Snook Nooker... Like, wait, did he just shout out Snook Nooka?" (26:31)
• Malik B’s Recording Style:
  Malik’s unique process:
  "Malik is like, pretty much after this point... showing up at the studio at four in the morning... Like, what the hell? Like, one of the Things Fall Apart songs was for Erykah [Badu]..." (27:46)

5. Studio Competition, Textures, and the Arrival of Jazzy Fat Nastees

• Switching Up Production Tactics:
  Instead of collaborative jam sessions, the Roots become competitive, individually building tracks like “No Alibi”, using whatever musical tricks at their disposal—especially vocal textures from guest singers and background players.
  "We’re not—it’s not like, Do You Want More? where let’s get in a room together and let’s play. It’s now competitive. Like, I’m coming alone and I’m going to conduct my own sessions, but I’m not that well versed on basic keyboards..." (31:30)
• Jazzy Fat Nastees’ Involvement:
  Questlove is enamored with the group after hearing their demo and brings them into the Roots orbit, laying groundwork for the emerging Philly neo-soul scene.
  "It’s as if someone put En Vogue in a time machine... I wish the world heard the seven songs that I heard." (16:03)

6. The Fugees, Competitive Drive, and Roots’ Stagecraft Evolution

• Co-headlining Tour with the Fugees:
  The Roots join a tour with Goody Mob and the Fugees, just before the Fugees’ The Score blows up.
  "She’s singing... and she’s killing the verse. Yeah, it was just like, video was hard." (33:49)
• Mutual Influence:
  The Roots’ “Hip Hop 101” medley idea is (supposedly) adopted by the Fugees, spurring healthy but fierce competition.
  "That show had an effect on them... You know, they doing Hip Hop 101 live, too." (38:41)
• Questlove’s Realization on Live Shows:
  Feedback from John Schechter (The Source) helps Questlove retool the Roots’ live approach for maximum impact:
  *"He’s like, ‘yo, you guys are good, but... remember, your audience is hip hop heads... incorporate that into your show.’" (35:36)
  • The Roots responded with a relentless rehearsal regimen and full set conversion to hip hop covers, pushing their reputation as one of the best live bands in hip hop.

7. Lasting Impact and Chasing Legacy

• Fugees’ Meteoric Rise:
  Tour with the Fugees ends with them headlining massive venues, motivating Questlove to think long term:
  "They went from like co headlining to headlining to cover Rolling Stone... I don’t know that that lit a fire under my ass for the fourth quarter." (45:16)
• Questlove on Legacy and The Roots’ Place in History:
  The pressure is no longer just to contribute to the album, but to cement a place in hip hop legacy:
  "For me, instead of like fighting for my position... I’m now thinking about fighting for my position in history." (45:18)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Questlove on his own creative paranoia:
  "My ego wouldn’t allow me to get kicked out of my own unit." (07:58)

• Open Mike Eagle noting the roots' enigmatic internal process:
  "From the outside in, you just... there’s no real understanding of the division of labor or production inside The Roots. Especially because we knew y' all as a live band, so the whole thing was we didn't know who did whatever, right?" (29:07)

• Questlove on meeting Common:
  "Common smelled like a scene, a movement, a brewing. And he wanted part of it. He wasn’t... he was like an orphan without a crew." (19:30)

• Questlove on stagecraft and audience memory:
  "The novelty of some band members playing shit that, you know, something familiar... was like the Men In Black flashy thing. It made the entire audience forget everything." (35:36)

• Questlove, on the Fugees' adaptation of their live style:
  "I said, ‘yo, no more studio stuff. We gotta work on our live show. And I was just like, I don't care what. We gotta make sure...we are gonna come for blood. Like, we’re gonna kill the show.’" (40:11)

• Questlove on his ambitions:
  "I'm now thinking about fighting for my position in history. So now I'm like, okay, I'm gonna put one foot in building Questlove safe haven and my right foot still with The Roots." (45:18)

Timestamps for Major Segments

• 00:08–02:31: Introducing the episode, “Clones” origin, Questlove’s artistic anxiety
• 03:44–07:48: The Million Man March, “Clones” production
• 08:08–10:08: “No Frills” album cover, accidental beef
• 12:29–15:07: Common's involvement, Roots’ early collabs
• 20:22–21:18: The hyper-prolific Roots recording process
• 21:50–27:46: The Philly blizzard, Malik B's recording, and real-life crime crossovers
• 31:26–32:33: “No Alibi,” team shifts and vocal textures with Jazzy Fat Nastees
• 32:46–35:07: Roots co-headline with Fugees, adjusting stagecraft
• 35:36–40:11: Hip Hop 101, setlist reinvention, and competitive drive
• 41:26–45:17: Ms. Lauryn Hill, Roots Picnic, reflecting on relationships and growth
• 45:18–49:50: Legacy, LA show at House of Blues, penultimate moments

Final Notes

The episode paints a vivid picture of an iconic album’s creation amid personal insecurity, crew rivalries, and a rapidly shifting hip hop landscape. Questlove’s storytelling is both self-effacing and insightful, openly dissecting his creative paranoia, the push and pull between collaboration and competition, and the outside pressures that honed The Roots’ legendary live shows and lasting legacy.
For the full experience, listen to the next episode, which promises more on the Roots' journey through Illadelph Halflife and beyond.