Things Fall Apart Part 3

Summary

---

What Had Happened Was – S4E12: Things Fall Apart Part 3

Host: Open Mike Eagle | Guest: Ahmir “Questlove” Thompson | Date: December 27, 2023

---

Main Theme

In this penultimate episode of Season 4, host Open Mike Eagle continues his deep-dive conversation with Questlove into the making of The Roots' landmark album, Things Fall Apart. This chapter centers on the stories behind pivotal tracks—from “You Got Me” to “Double Trouble” and “Love of My Life (Act 2)”—and explores the creative chaos, serendipitous collaborations, and untold anecdotes that defined this era of The Roots and their tight-knit community.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The “You Got Me” Saga & Eve’s Meteoric Rise

• Questlove recounts the early confusion and lack of communication during the recording of “You Got Me,” not realizing the full plan for the vocals—particularly Eve’s prominent contribution.
  • [05:15] “Because of communication, right…? I wasn’t told that there’s something to even listen for… And I really got annoyed when I heard her voice on ‘Ain’t Say Nothing New.’” – Questlove
• He reflects on his initial nonchalance toward Eve, only to witness her whirlwind ascendancy as she signs to Dr. Dre’s Aftermath label within weeks.
  • [08:01] “In two weeks, Eve’s manager had made a contact with Dr. Dre. So Eve had already been signed as an artist… she was on the Bulworth soundtrack. And then Dre heard her… instantly he never let go.” – Questlove

2. The Grueling Production Process

• The episode offers an inside look at the relentless cycle of creation, with hundreds of musical sketches (“musical beds”) being made, and only a few making it to completion.
  • [11:22] “When I say making songs, it’s more like musical beds… is it gonna happen?” – Questlove
  • [11:35] “We’re only mixing a full-fledged song… a lion’s share of the work was the lyrical content and the song creation.” – Questlove

3. Double Trouble: Studio Legends Collide

• Questlove details the origin of “Double Trouble,” revealing how the jam session energy—fueled by the presence of Mos Def, Talib Kweli, DJ Premier (and his crew including Alchemist), and others—created an intense environment of peer pressure and motivation.

  • [14:05] “Let’s go back to Electric Lady Studio C. Devil’s Pie, Devil’s Pie… you’re going up three flights of stairs with crates and Premier’s just like… it has to be perfect.” – Questlove
  • [17:43] “I was snowed in Detroit with Dilla… the Olympics is like, you got five minutes to make a beat. And I was like, oh, this’ll be fun. He’s God, you know what I’m saying? …And then the motherfucker makes what I consider the greatest Dilla track of all time.” – Questlove

• The competitive, collaborative stew pushes Questlove to recommit to The Roots, after feeling outclassed by his peers in these “magic circle” sessions:

  • [26:47] “It’s just like, magic circle of… ‘Aww, man, I ain’t on y’all level. I don’t got shit.’…I was like, this can’t be 65/35 anymore. I gotta go home. I gotta take a break… So we make Love of My Life Act 2.” – Questlove

4. The Hidden Influence of Dilla

• Questlove shares how J Dilla’s presence and methods—his speed, intuition, and humility—become a creative pole star not only for The Roots, but for the entire Soulquarian circle:
  • [19:26] “No paralysis through analysis, right? If you overthink it… He grabs the Rick James record… He starts, like, doing stuff. And he’s like, ‘Woo. Okay, okay. I got it, I got it.’” – Questlove

5. The “Love of My Life (Act 2)” Challenge

• The emotional, lush sound of “Love of My Life (Act 2)” presented an internal challenge, with Black Thought (Tariq) initially resistant due to fears it would seem too “soft.”

  • [35:58] “You have these hard ass drums but you really have this emo, soft, musical, billowy… which, you know, just reads us as soft… now we live in an age where motherfuckers are connected to their emotions.” – Questlove
  • [36:44] “My thing was like—I was determined to make an electric relaxation. I needed a song on side two that almost made you, the listener, want to get in your feelings.” – Questlove

• DJ Cosmic Kev’s positive feedback helped win Tariq over, and a strategic “Common feature” further nudged the track into completion.

  • [37:34] “When he heard Love My Life, he’s like, ‘Yo, that is crazy. Y’all outta y’all minds…’” – Questlove
  • [38:12] “The verse was so mind-blowing… It was almost like we forced Tariq, put him on the spot. Like, oh, word, you gonna let… Common will just take it if y’all don’t want this.” – Questlove

6. The Hidden Verse & Running Joke

• On the original recording of “Double Trouble,” an uncredited Talib Kweli verse led to confusion, with Questlove thinking Kweli’s high voice was that of a woman.
  • [35:15] “So I walk in and I look… And it’s like, yeah, Alicia’s just signed to Columbia… So I’m just chilling in her room. We’re talking… And discover that Mos’s partner, new partner, Atalip Kweli… his voice was so high, I thought it was a woman.” – Questlove
  • [35:27] “To this day, Kweli lets me have it—that on that reel is my verse. Like, it was supposed to be three MCs, but I got kicked off the thing.” – Questlove

7. Studio Anecdotes & “Rick James’s Cocaine”

• A standout story involves recording “Without a Doubt” on Rick James’ old studio board—and discovering a bag supposedly full of Rick James’s accumulated cocaine, kept as a grisly artifact.
  • [41:24] “We had to do so much maintenance on this board that the amount of accumulated cocaine dust… They kept Rick James’s cocaine hanging up on the wall at the studio. Cocaine is a hell of a drug.” – Questlove

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• [08:01] “In two weeks, Eve’s manager had made a contact with Dr. Dre… she was on the Bulworth soundtrack. And then Dre heard her… instantly he never let go.” – Questlove
• [17:43] “I was snowed in Detroit with Dilla… the Olympics is like, you got five minutes to make a beat... the motherfucker makes what I consider the greatest Dilla track of all time.” – Questlove
• [26:47] “It’s just like, magic circle of… I ain’t on y’all level. I don’t got shit… I gotta go home. I gotta take a break… So we make Love of My Life Act 2.” – Questlove
• [35:27] “To this day, Kweli lets me have it—that on that reel is my verse. Like, it was supposed to be three MCs, but I got kicked off the thing.” – Questlove
• [41:24] “They kept Rick James’s cocaine hanging up on the wall at the studio. Cocaine is a hell of a drug.” – Questlove

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [02:55] UK Drum & Bass influence on “You Got Me”
• [05:15] Questlove’s introduction to Eve and the “You Got Me” vocals confusion
• [08:01] Eve’s rapid rise and signing with Dr. Dre
• [11:18] Explaining the Roots’ production workflow (“musical beds”)
• [14:05] Electric Lady Studios, Premier, Alchemist & “Double Trouble”
• [17:43] Questlove and Dilla’s “Olympics” beat battle
• [19:25] Dilla’s spontaneous beat creation and “Little Brother” story
• [26:43] Studio jam session with Dilla, Premier, Tip, and the need to step up for The Roots
• [29:07] Creation of “Love of My Life (Act 2)”
• [35:27] The Double Trouble/Kweli verse “controversy”
• [37:34] DJ Cosmic Kev helps win over Tariq to “Love My Life”
• [41:20] The Rick James’ board and cocaine bag story

---

Tone and Language

The episode is a vibrant mix of nostalgia, humblebragging, and playful frustration; Questlove’s anecdotes are both deeply technical and loaded with sly humor. The storytelling is personal, unflinchingly honest, and sprinkled with inside jokes from the soulful, competitive late-’90s hip hop universe.

---

For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

This installment is an essential listen for hip hop heads and creative-process aficionados alike. It not only maps how Things Fall Apart came together musically, but illustrates the tangled ecosystem of friendships, rivalries, and happy accidents that animated the Soulquarians and late-’90s rap. The anecdotes about Eve, Dilla, Mos Def, and Alicia Keys are as insightful as they are entertaining, while Questlove’s candidness offers a rare window into the anxieties and breakthroughs that shaped a classic album.

---

Transcript

[Mikey Eagle]

98. What can I say? I get very excited when I hear that little instrumental stinger. Welcome to season four. Episode 12 of what had Happened was with our esteemed every week guest, the one and only Questlove from the Roots crew. And we are getting down to it, y'.

[Questlove]

All.

[Mikey Eagle]

In fact, for most seasons of what Had Happened was this would have been the last episode. But spoiler alert, there is one more after this. So when you get to this week's cliffhanger ending, don't fret, there is one episode remaining. Currently we are deep into the story of Things Fall Apart and pick up where we left off, hearing the story of you Got Me. We also get the origins of Act 2, love of my Life and Double Trouble featuring Mos Def, which in itself the song story of this song contains another of the greatest stories in what Had Happened history. You can support this podcast by spreading the word to folks who are interested in the stories behind legendary hip hop classics and giving us 10,000 stars on your favorite podcast platform. In fact, you can also give us 10,000 stars on your second favorite platform. It's all okay, it's all perfectly legal and it's all encouraged. This podcast is part of the Stony Island Audio Network, the home of rap podcast you can, you know, listen to, including shows like stories about Songs with Kevin Beachum, the Questions, Hip Hop Trivia, the dad Bod, Rap Pod, and more. And with that, let's get into it. This is the penultimate episode. Things Fall Apart Part 3. One two, one two. Yeah, Eggo. This art's all about things fall apart. You know, like bad actors make scenes fall apart. You know, like poorly built machines fall apart. They're smart. But then things unseen fall apart. Hip hopping since the first beat dropped in the park was spark. It's all facts, not shots in the dark. You know, it's like best laid plans fall apart. The names well your one last chance fell apart. Big Bang the whole universe expanded apart Creepy. The last podcast standing apart in check Prosecution Whole case fell apart DJ turn up the base the whole place fell apart. Quest Love what had happened was state of the art cliffhangers at the end. It can't wait till it starts. Today we're hearing all about things fall apart. Mikey who under pressure 16 fall AP shit. So what had happened was part four, season four, things fall apart just like that. Just like they did right there.

[Questlove]

So the homage to drum and bass culture, which, you know, I'm really shocked that America really didn't catch on to drumming based culture. And I know that Even with Bombs Over Baghdad, like, that's what Dre was going for, like, that sort of speed and adrenaline. Our first night in London, we went to a nightclub, and they were playing Anita Baker's Sweet Love, and we were, like, laughing at them. Like, they danced the balance over here. And then suddenly when the chorus came in, I'm in love, and place was chaotic. Ah, man, that was such a lesson for us. So we knew that that was an untapped source. And it's kind of weird, like, even now, like, with. With Uzi Vert, like, really, truly opening.

[Mikey Eagle]

The door to the Jersey Club.

[Questlove]

Jersey club or Baltimore house or whatever, you know? Like, I don't know who's claiming it.

[Guest Rapper/MC]

I just want to rock.

[Questlove]

That energy is coming. Like, finally. It's like, really? You guys show up, like, after 25 years later as nostalgia. And so that's where it was. So the confusion comes in the fact that I'm hearing you got me for the first time ever while I'm. When I'm mixing it. I heard the first verse. He was struggling with the second and third verse with, like, what do you call it? Writer's block and whatnot. So I'm hearing this song for the first time, and when I hear. You know, I'm the type of always catching her fights, you know, the height of the night. That's when she says.

[Mikey Eagle]

Another lonely night.

[Questlove]

No, but I'm. The tracks are down, and I'm like, where's the vocal at? Like. Cause Tariq stops rhyming, and she goes.

[Guest Rapper/MC]

I got the be out at the height of the night. And that's when she flip and get on some.

[Questlove]

But she's on, like, track 24 or something like that. So I'm not thinking. I don't. Because of communication, Right.

[Mikey Eagle]

You weren't told that there's something to even listen for other than.

[Questlove]

Right? Yeah, exactly. So I had a rich. And I'm like, yo, how come his second verse cuts off like that? And he's like. Cause Eve picks it up. I'm like, who's Eve? It's like, Eve. I was like, who's Eve? And, you know, like, it's like I'm supposed to know all these characters. I mean, I'm not trying to play snobby or whatever, but, like, I just wasn't hanging with the crew while they were recording vocals. I'm always working.

[Mikey Eagle]

Yeah.

[Questlove]

And if there's free time, then I'm back with d', Angelo, you know what I mean? So I don't know who's. Who or what's what. So, you know, kind of my introduction to her was more like I just stored her in randos. Like, oh, great, this another mc. Who? I don't know. And then I really got annoyed when I heard her voice on Ain't say Nothing New. And I'm like, ah, man, is this the thing where you just, yo, yo, come out of the studio, you know? Yeah, we'll see what's up. Like, that sort of thing, which I hate that. Like, I never, like, yo, why don't you come out of the studio and I could do some tracks for you? And, like, I don't know. I just was like, so what? Our one chance to get a touchdown, and now it's like, Tariq and Erica. We already got the Jill situation. That's confusing enough. But now, like, the rando. What's her name? Eve. I never. Eve of Destruction, man, you don't know Eve of Destruction? So.

[Eve]

You niggas capitalize on live surprise. Open your eyes, baby girl from Ill Adele here to enhance your lives. Doubted my skills Bet you mad now should have snatched me up I'm in LA now with Dre now ain't coming back, Cause I'm stuck Had enough for all the bullshit that's selling me dream had enough of fake cats Trying to shine off these schemes But I'm laughing last down to get this cash with the aftermath, you happy being local superstar Showing your asses off the most shit.

[Questlove]

It was like, whatever. And so, you know, when I did the credits, I was just like, you know, background Eva Destruction. Like, I didn't know that in two weeks, right?

[Mikey Eagle]

Was it that quick?

[Questlove]

Yo, stuff was happening so lightning fast. In two weeks. Eve's manager had made a contact with Dr. Dre. So Eve had already been signed as an artist on. She's part of Rough Riders.

[Guest Rapper/MC]

Come on, come on.

[Eve]

Come on, yeah, yeah Talk about who I, I am blondie Find me in the hood with my people Love y' all, hate the rest of y' all that I can see through above that I can't feel nothing less it's lethal Testing your moves never that make your position Beatle I.

[Guest Rapper/MC]

Want to talk about a dog, nigga, Los even me, man, that's the hottest thing in the streets I beats the Swiss cheesed up with holes in the.

[Questlove]

And she was on the. The Bulworth soundtrack. And then Dre heard her on the bulwar soundtrack. Like, yo, I gotta mess with her. Scott Stewart gets wins that. Wait, you're going out to see V? Dr. Dre, please come Please, please, please take me. What you did, I don't know how it happened, but now even. Scott went out two weeks later, met with Dr. Dre, and instantly he never let go. Instantly. Scott starts with Steel Dream. With just anything that has been done in that camp that is remotely keys oriented. Yeah, but I don't realize that a whole nother revolution is starting over there. You know, it wasn't like, oh, had I known that an even bigger celebrity was a part of the song, that I would have been like, oh, like, let's milk it for all it's worth. You know, it's just the fact that I was, I was a little pissed at, like, well, is this my group or not? Like, do I not get agency or say like. So it's just like I do the music and then. But I bet you any amount of money Tariq also feels the way that I feel that Tariq holds the power in the group. Tariq feels that I have the power in the group. And so that's always kind of been the dynamic. So it was just a steady stream of non communication where now we're in this vortex of work on music in Philly. And then around lunchtime, someone's gonna deliver the tapes from the studio, Larry Gold's studio. And then we're gonna drive up to New York and start mixing at 7 in the morning and get it done by 3am, drive back to Philly, listen to the mixes as we're driving back to Philly, and then be back in Sigma to do the same thing over and over.

[Mikey Eagle]

And so you making 300 to 500 songs. I mean, how many of those are you really mixing though too?

[Questlove]

Cause that's when I say making songs, it's more like musical beds. Some of them will make it to the lyrical thing, like one verse or two verse, whatever. But it's sort of like, is it going to happen?

[Mikey Eagle]

So you're mixing things that made it to a full music bed.

[Questlove]

We're only mixing a full fledged song. Yes, yes. So when I told you earlier that I was 65% voodoo, 35% roots, pretty much. Three days on the roots, which, you know, again, a lion's share of the work was the lyrical content and the song creation. Like, we could knock off songs, I could knock off 10 tracks instantly like that. But do they feel it? Do they like it or they like it? They were right to it. Is it ready? Not ready. Writer's block. Is it ready? Oh, okay. The two verses, Is it ready? Is it ready? So, you know, kind of in that limbo ish thing. I just go to Electric lady and be like, all right, page me when it's time to need a new batch. Like they got to write to these four songs, right? So I got time on my hand. So I'd spend like four days in a row with d' Angelo and do all that stuff. And then Double Trouble king.

[Mikey Eagle]

Oh I love that song. So you and the mighty most def the man who almost got you beat.

[Questlove]

Up.

[Guest Rapper/MC]

Well it's like smack the track up and leave dancing it the vocalist busting its blunt instruments spit the magnificent rappers run from it all fly girls nipples and toes none from the MCs in my circumference it's confronted son get your gross stunning for Nick. You don't want it want it the black order mos step done it who the ultimate yo my man speak up on it yo I style fools and drive jewels but never running rock Mike so nice I make your stock price plumber all you high noon riders better rally at the summit it's me and Tariq and your fleet outnumber Plug them in brain walking big game and get.

[Questlove]

Hunted so here's the deal with Double Trouble. The original Double Trouble.

[Mikey Eagle]

Yeah. I was curious if Yasin was involved from the beginning of the song or not.

[Questlove]

So this song is what I say woke me up. So the original Double Trouble was just this.

[Mikey Eagle]

What became the end of the song.

[Questlove]

Take those drums away, make it more drier. And that was Double Trouble.

[Guest Rapper/MC]

Tell em again it's just me and Tariq with Emir on the beat. The roots crew, baby yo we got to make it you we got the soul shocking ass body rocking ass phone stopping ass fortified li survive the apocalypse rise we say the perfect bl because we know how to rock when the beat come in like.

[Questlove]

So let's go back to Electroly Studio C. Devil's Pie Devil's Pie Devil's Pie Devil's pie so it's 1998 premiere. I know that premiere came with four people of which Alchemist reminds me that he's one of those four people.

[Mikey Eagle]

Wow.

[Questlove]

This big unc on the checkout leather Stacy Adams boot when I step out more muscle. I pull a piece of your neck out, bake a cake and only serve it when it's fresh out off the oven rack Bottom crispy like a hundred stack. So Alchemist was part of Premier's crew. Like I think it was Gord. I think it was Gordon. Maybe one of the nygs Alchemist and Premier carrying records. Yeah. And we're at Electric Lady Studios. So that's on the top floor. So you're going up three flights of stairs with crates and Premier's just like, you know, he is the Daniel whom three Michelin star chef of cutting. He doesn't copy paste. It has to be the perfect. It's not like, do you take one of that scratch and take 12 of that?

[Mikey Eagle]

No, you no comping. Yeah.

[Questlove]

He's that level of add of perfection, which I appreciate. You know my Keep it to the beach. They're working on on Devil's Pie. Now there's another factor in my life happening around June of 99. Common's like, Yo, I think I'm assigned to Yalls label and I want you to work on. I want you to do my entire album. So now like Water for Chocolate's in the play. So now I got triple duty. So now it's almost like, you know, hey, what's up? They still working on vocals. All right, cool. And now daytime with Common. D' Angelo will he mostly likely gets to the studio 5pm, 6pm so between like 9am and 5pm common time. So Commons. Commons instincts are right on point. Yeah. Something is a bruin and I want, I want, I want in. I want part of this. So he knows that Erica's cooking up something. He knows d' Angelo's cooking up something. He knows the roots are cooking up something. I gotta get on this train.

[Mikey Eagle]

So smart man.

[Questlove]

This is where it starts. And so if I recall correctly, in studio A, we're working on doing it.

[Guest Rapper/MC]

Keep on, move back. I pursue rap at the pace of a new Jacks, miscellaneous numbers and shoe stack bruise rap. I deliver for the hungry and underprivileged. Something different from these. Hollering, grunting this is business. Strictly step to. My business is risky, especially when you was Missy.

[Questlove]

I've told the story of doing it plenty of times before I was snowed in Detroit with Dilla. We couldn't get to the airport, so we're spending the night. Frank of Frank and Dank's like, yo, let's have the Olympics. And I was like, what's duh, what's the Olympics? And the Olympics is like, you got five minutes to make a beat. Like someone, you're someone gives you five random records. You gotta make some shit now. And I was like, oh, this'll be fun. I, you know, look again. He's God, you know what I'm saying? Like, who am I to go against God? But I'm gonna have fun seeing him. Any opportunity that I got to meet I have this on videotape. I need to find this tape. And I'm picking records for him, like Johnny Mathis. I'm picking songs like Ashley's Roach Clip by the Soul Searchers. Because I'm like, that's a whack beat. Knowing no.

[Mikey Eagle]

And everybody's used every part of it anyway.

[Questlove]

Like, I'm thinking that old method of like, oh, this is a whack break beat, so you can't make nothing out of this. And, oh, there's street songs by Rick James. Let me cut you a break here. Make some out of. Give it to me. When I came home last night, you wouldn't make love to me. You went fast asleep. And the clock. He has 10 minutes to make some.

[Mikey Eagle]

10 minutes.

[Questlove]

Because again, no, no paralysis through analysis, right? If you overthink it. With 10 minutes on the clock, he's just moving. And he grabs the Rick James record. I'm like, no, ain't no fucking way he's gonna make no shell this goddamn Rick James shit. And he's just sitting there. He sits there for two minutes. He lets two minutes go by. He's like, ah, man. Oh, man. Y' all might got me, man. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Shit, shit, shit. Oh. And he starts, like, doing stuff. And I'm like, yo, dog, there's no way you're going to do some. And he's like, this is when, you know, Dilla has something. He'll say, oh, okay, okay, okay. All right. Okay, okay, all right. When he says woo, that's his personal internal version of oh, no, this. Yeah, right. Yeah. When you hear that mantronic siren, that's when he was like, yeah, okay, okay, okay, I got it, I got it. Yeah. Woo. Okay. And Frank was like, oh, shit. And I was like, wait, what's. I'm not knowing. What's. I'm not knowing that I'm about to cross the 405 and get my ass beat. And he went over by like a minute and a half. But I'm like, I'm just curious. Motherfucking me. Doing it right there on the spot. And I'm like, where's? Give it to me. And he's literally like, it's there. And I'm like, huh? And he just, here, look, it's for your listeners. Literally, I'm thinking, like, you're making a beat out of this. Cause the only people I know that used that was Jazzy Jeff and the Fresh Prince for I'm all that. And Suddenly he's just like, yeah, I'm just gonna not just tune it down to this, you know, Like, Jesus, Keep.

[Guest Rapper/MC]

On, keep on, keep on, keep on, keep on, keep on, keep.

[Questlove]

I was just like, who the fuck are you? And if that. And if that's not enough, we go to sleep. I sleep on the couch. And then the motherfucker makes what I consider the greatest Dillard track of all time. He. He makes Little Brother. Yeah.

[Guest Rapper/MC]

The revolution will not be televised or broadcast live.

[Questlove]

And the thing is, is that when you're a beat maker, the best way to get better is to remake other people's beats. So he would always make Pete Rock interlude beats. But the rule was like, yo, never let it get out.

[Mikey Eagle]

That's his practice stuff, you know?

[Questlove]

Cause he. He doesn't want to ruffle feathers, right.

[Mikey Eagle]

With like, I made your beat better than you or some shit like that.

[Questlove]

He would never put the Pete Rock beats on his beat tapes. Cause he doesn't want smoke with Pete or Premier or any of his idols. And so even how Mos and Kweli got it was almost the same way that Michael Jackson got Human Nature. Like, it was accidentally on the B side of a blank cassette that he forgot he put. He made another beat for them for Little brother. And I guess it got to the end of the tape and wait, what's this?

[Mikey Eagle]

Yeah.

[Questlove]

And they literally just put that cassette on 2 inch reel and rhymed to the cassette thing.

[Guest Rapper/MC]

We rep the ain't got Ain't nobody can't start nobody like us we crushed the faint hearts I'm haunted the same marks Walking the main blocks Painted with blood is still hot so deep Insane.

[Questlove]

Socks the pain sparks And I mean, he was a little miffed that. But, you know, they thought like, oh, we thought. Yeah.

[Mikey Eagle]

They had no way of knowing that it was. Wasn't something that he wanted out, right?

[Questlove]

And just his level of chopping was just like, no shit ever seen before. Listen, so I know that Dilla was there working. Common was doing vocals, were doing it. And as long as it's funky. All right. Okay. Why don't know my own music.

[Guest Rapper/MC]

The Roots and that's Fe be the family tree. SV and the Roots be the family tree. The Roots and that's Fe and the Tree.

[Questlove]

Come on.

[Guest Rapper/MC]

Long as it's.

[Questlove]

Long as it's. And so we visit Studio C upstairs. And now Tip's upstairs. Alchemist is there. Primo's there. Dilla's there. I'm there. And we're just kicking it, talking. And Tip is like, Yo, Dyla, like, yo, Jay. Like, I know you got some shit. And Jay's also. Oh, man. You know, and it's 98, and he's playing shit that will be on welcome to Detroit. And we're just like, yo. And I even think Alchemist had a little thing, whatever. And people like, yo. And then premiere, like, freshly off of, like, Moment of Truth just coming out. So this new level premiere coming out, I believe that, if my memory serves me correct, one of the beats that's on the owners, he plays a track there, and they're like, oh, shit. And the tip is working on his solo record. So he's playing, like, what Dilla did for him.

[Guest Rapper/MC]

I think we should ride.

[Mikey Eagle]

Oh, my God. Okay. Right?

[Questlove]

Yeah. So it's just like, magic circle of. Oh, oh, oh. All right, Amir. What y' all working on in Philly? And I was like, well, I said, oh, man, I ain't on y' all level. I don't got shit. He's like, nah, man. No, what you got? What you got, man? What you got? And so, you know, I had a cassette in my pocket, and, you know, I had this. Here's the thing, though. Them lying ass motherfuckers was not honest with me.

[Mikey Eagle]

Who was the lion? Oh, everybody in that room.

[Questlove]

So here's the thing. When. When a person plays a beat. This is why I don't like, when people are like, hey, give me. Give me an opinion or whatever. It's like, first of all, you don't want me to give an opinion or whatever. You basically want me to do the Questlove cosign. Yo, I ride for this shit. Whatever. So I don't like listening to people's stuff in front of them. It's like opening someone's gift in front of them. Oh, I love the gift. Thank you. Cardigan sweater and one xl. Like, you know, some size that don't fit. There's something I know called demo head nod. You know it well. It's when you, like, look at the ground. It's you in the lips. It's when you. You furrow your brow. You force a very serious look. Yeah. And you just nod your head. That's when I know some shit's a disaster. And I quickly ran out, turned on. I was like, yeah, man, you know, we're not ready. And it was a rough mix or whatever, but it was that moment where I was like, this can't be 65, 35 anymore.

[Mikey Eagle]

You had to put more into it.

[Questlove]

I gotta go home. I gotta take a break. So I took, I took a seven week voodoo break. So instantly I tell James like, yo man, let's stop bullshitting and let's like, let's get with it so we make love of my life. Act 2.

[Guest Rapper/MC]

The anticipation arose as time froze. I stared off the stage with my eyes closed and dove into the deep cosmos. The impact pushed back the first five rolls. But before the raw live shows, I remember I was a little no snot nose, rocking gazelle, God goes and eyes are closed. Learning the ropes against old survival people. Not the situation. I had to slide through, had to watch my back, my front, plus my size too. When it came to getting mine. I ain't trying to argue sometimes I wouldn't have made it if it wasn't for you Hip hop, you the love of my life. And that's true. When I was handling the I had.

[Questlove]

To do, we already made Double Trouble. But I'm like, nah, I want some that's gonna make those motherfuckers wanna carjack somebody and run somebody over with a truck. And it was like, ah, fuck, man. They gave me demo knob. My shit is whack. I'm not the man. They just see me as a really dope drummer whose band does this really nice thing in concert, but I'm not the man on wax. And I was just like, I can't be a lover of records and a record collector of this caliber and not make product on this medium that I live for that doesn't blow their minds. So I, I, I had to start from the beginning and in a way that I haven't done since. Do you want more? Which I used as an excuse to avoid my heartbroken father after the breakup of my parents, you know, staying at the studio late learning. What does this button do? What does this button do? So I had to learn the studio. Like, I knew what I wanted this song to sound like. Now how do I get out of my head and figure out how to translate it here? So a lot of experiments, a lot of compression, a lot of what does this EQ do? What does this preamp do? Oh, I could put this through the guitar amp and sounds dirty. Oh, what makes it sound like this? Well, how do Bill Ruthers records sound like this? How did. So for seven weeks I just, I had to learn and get like, basically introduce myself to studio equipment all over again. And we nailed it. So the story about Double Trouble is basically, once it's musically satisfying to me, we sent it to New York. We collectively decided that most deaf. And the thing is, is that These jam sessions are also getting the attention of the label. And their thing is like, yo, we might as well follow you guys lead since you're trying to gather the flock of all the left to center people.

[Mikey Eagle]

Since you're growing your own crops, right.

[Questlove]

We might as well sign them.

[Mikey Eagle]

Yeah.

[Questlove]

So now, oh, hey, Pharaoh Munch, come sign to this label. Oh, hey, Most Definite Tyler Kweli, come sign his label. Who else you gotta mirror? Slum Village, come sign to this label. So everyone's signing the mca. So pretty much we are gonna go to Battery Studios to record Mos verse of Double Trouble. I get there a little bit late, and the engineer's like, okay. So they laid a rough down. I said, oh, Tariq. And Mos, he said, no, it wasn't Tariq. And to myself, I'm like, well, you said they. And he says, well, this is what they did and pressed play. And I'm like, wait, is this another girl on the track? Like, what the fuck is this? And I called Rich. I was like, this doesn't sound like Eve. What girl is this? And Rich, Like, I don't know. I was like, who's this rhyme? And I called Rico, who's this person? I said, and I'm asking the engineer who's. Who's the person? I don't know. He's with most. So Rich is like, all right, let me figure it out. So I figure I got like a 90 minute window. So I chill, I take an hour break, and I happen to be in the hallway and fresh from the what they do sessions, I see Jerry Brown, Rafael Sadiq's engineer. I'm like, yo, what are you doing here? He's like, oh, man. Working with my new client. I said, really? I said, does the studio look just like Christmas? When? Whenever Rafael Sadiq Records. Side note, Jerry Brown makes the entire studio look like Christmas time. Cause it's a happy associated memory with Raphael Siddiq. So any time of year, Raphael record, just know that there's a Full throttle Christmas setup in there. So I see Jerry, I'm like, yo, do you have the Christmas setup in there? He's like, yeah, you want to see it? I was like, yeah. And I walk in and I look. I was like, oh, God, you really did make it sound like Christmas girl sitting there laughing on the couch. I'm like, hey, how you doing? He said, oh, you know my new client. Her name is Alicia. I was like, oh, nice to meet you. Nice to meet you. And it's like, yeah, Alicia's just signed to Columbia Records. And da da da da da da.

[Eve]

Sometimes I feel good I keep on falling in and out of love with you I never love someone the way that I love me. You.

[Questlove]

Me and Alicia Keys, like, become like BFFs. Like, we. We're just discovering, like, Krispy Kreme just started hitting New York and all that stuff. So we're like talking about stuff. And, you know, I'm telling her, like, yeah, I'm working with d'. Angelo. Oh, I like his music and everything. She. This is before the A minor. She was still an artist on Columbia Records. Jermaine Dupree's dad signed her, you know, so they're working, so I'm just chilling in her room. We're talking shooting up. Anyway, I go back to my session and discover that Moses partner, new partner, Atalip Kweli Taleb quality or something is that second voice. His voice was so high, I thought it was a woman's. Oh, wow.

[Mikey Eagle]

Okay.

[Questlove]

So I was like, uh, this is overload, man. And Rich agreed like, that it was.

[Mikey Eagle]

A step too far.

[Questlove]

Yeah. And Reek's like, what the fuck? It's called Double Trouble, not Triple Trouble.

[Mikey Eagle]

True.

[Questlove]

So, you know, to this day, Kweli like, lets me have it that on that reel is my verse. Like, it was supposed to be three MCs, like, rhyming, but I got kicked off the thing. So basically Tariq came and they readjusted it. There was that Tariq did not, like, Love My Life. Act two, kind of the thing when you're embracing this new dilla like thing, it's like you have these hard ass drums, but you really have this emo, soft, musical, billowy, A lot of melody.

[Mikey Eagle]

Yeah.

[Questlove]

Which, you know, kind of just reads us as soft, you know, which now we live in an age where motherfuckers are connected to their emotions. They're not too threatened by not being 12,000% hardcore masculine every 12 seconds. Like, you can be like a little bit relaxed without being on defense. And, you know, not everything has to sound like Money Cash shows by Swiss beach, like that sort of thing. Money cash, Money cash oh, money cash.

[Guest Rapper/MC]

Money cash Money cash.

[Questlove]

But there was something like, so emotional.

[Mikey Eagle]

It's a very emotional sounding song.

[Questlove]

Yeah. And I'm like, come on, man. Like, my thing was like I was determined to make. I wanted to make an electric relaxation. I needed a song on side two that almost made you, the listener, want to get in your feelings.

[Mikey Eagle]

Like lush, kind of. Yeah.

[Questlove]

Like, yo, like that. That really hit me. And Tariq, he didn't like it. And I'm like, all right. So we going through this barbershop shit again. Like, you don't want to play this because you think the dudes at the barbershop going to think, like, we soft or something like that. And then I figured out a way. So I had a champion shout out to Cosmic Strictly, Skills, Kev, Our own funk master, Flex of Philadelphia. Cosmic Cav, Very legendary DJ.

[Guest Rapper/MC]

Chore rocking live and direct. You know I'm saying, with my man, Cosmic Strictly Skill.

[Questlove]

Y' all know Billy, DJs always the number one. We would always do these focus groups. Cosmike Kev. We'll listen to these beats. All right. I like this thing. I like that thing. I like this beat. I like that beat. Whatever. When he heard Love My Life, he's like, yo, that is crazy. Y' all. Out of y' all minds, y', all, dude. I'm like, yes, get him there, get him there, like. And you know, Jerry was like, all right, I'll do it. So I had. I had another trick up my sleeve. Common.

[Guest Rapper/MC]

Common speaking to my guy Rican, how she was desperately seeking to organizing our confusion Using no protection Told her on resurrection Caught in the Hype Williams and lost her direction Getting eight inceptions where I wouldn't eat her under the count of love so solidly I treat her her daddy a beat her eyes off.

[Questlove]

Her the verse was so mind blowing. And he brought it back to, I used to love her, right? That. It was almost like we forced Tariq, put him on the spot. Like, oh, word you gonna let. Cause also I knew I had another weapon in my pocket, which was sort of like, okay, so for all my shit that's getting passed up, I now have an outlet, which all my passed up shit got you. Has a home got you. And that's called, like, Water for Chocolate. So cool. You can front on this if you want to. So it was sort of like a. I mean, it wasn't Roots and Fuji ish. Cause we're all family, right? But it was also like, oh, come on, dawg. I thought you was gonna never teach the Wu Tang. Like, for real, you're gonna give. You know? And I used that to my advantage. Like, oh, well, Common will just take it if y' all don't want this. And then like, eyes light up, right? Exactly. And so thus forcing Tariq to write to it. So that's sort of like how that came to be.

[Mikey Eagle]

Well, here. Quick question, though. Common does I used to love her. There's some shots thrown in that verse, though. And y' all coming off of what they do and all that.

[Questlove]

He never caught it.

[Mikey Eagle]

Okay.

[Questlove]

You know, Common is the king of throwing shots to somebody. And.

[Mikey Eagle]

And they don't even.

[Questlove]

And never. They. They never catch it. It's almost like in comms, like, well, are real MCs, then they would know I was throwing the shots. But since they ain't real MCs, I'm just out here like the Wild west, like, bucking shots at people. I don't know. It's. It's. I didn't once think of like a. It was. I wasn't that triggered to be like, no, never again will we not bust a shot. But I mean, just because it was specifically at Puff. And I took it. Yeah. And I took it like, hey, man, it is what it is.

[Guest Rapper/MC]

Her daddy a beat up.

[Questlove]

But for me, that the song sounded so beautifully emotional that I wasn't going to change nothing about it.

[Mikey Eagle]

Gotcha.

[Questlove]

So, you know, by that point, I'll say that we had a cohesive record. Funny, funny story about Without a Doubt, which I didn't mind keeping on, even though it kind of stuck out as the sore Thumb. It's like obvious not to Squiggy D. Saturday night.

[Guest Rapper/MC]

It was Saturday night and I was.

[Questlove]

Feeling kind of sporty Went to the bar, caught me a 40 got kind.

[Guest Rapper/MC]

Of high and kind of drunk so I kicked the ass up this little punk forgot my key, had to ring my bell.

[Questlove]

We recorded Without a Doubt at a studio in Kasha Haken, which was owned by one of my schoolmates, who's slightly older. Like, I was in fourth grade, he was like 11th grader. I went to a school that went from like first grade to 12th. And his. His name is Ted. Ted takes us to a studio and he points to the wall, and on the wall there's a white sandwich bag stapled to the wall. And it's what I assume is detergent inside the sandwich bag. And I was like, what's the story behind that? And he's like, oh, man. He's like. He's like, this things that might be an AVI board or whatever. He's like, this is. This is Rick James's board. This is Rick James's board from Come and Get it all the way to the Throwing down. I said, so this is the board that made like Super Freak and Give it to Me and all that stuff. He's like, yeah, this is the board, as a matter of fact. So we had to do so much maintenance on this board that the amount of accumulated cocaine dust get out of here from this board. He's like, we collected it. And that's Rick James's. That's, like, about 17 years worth of cocaine that have fallen through the cracks of the years. Yep. They kept Rick James's cocaine hanging up on the wall at the studio. Cocaine is a hell of a drug.

[Mikey Eagle]

Oh, my God. That's where it ends for this week. So suddenly. I know. But look, we got one more episode. We got another final hour of goodness coming at you next week. So don't fret. We'll be back at you soon for the final episode, Season four. What had happened was Requestlove. My name is Open Mikey Eagle. And see you then. See you then. See you then.

[Questlove]

Stony Island Audio.