Trump's Disney Shakedown

Summary

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Podcast Summary

Podcast: What Next: TBD | Tech, Power, and the Future
Episode: Trump’s Disney Shakedown
Host: Lizzie O’Leary
Guest: Anna Gomez (Democratic Commissioner, FCC)
Date: May 29, 2026

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Brief Overview

This episode of What Next: TBD explores the mounting tensions within the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) under the Trump administration, focusing on alleged efforts to weaponize the FCC against the media—especially Disney and its affiliates. Host Lizzie O’Leary interviews Commissioner Ana Gomez, the FCC’s sole remaining Democrat, whose term is ending. Together, they dissect what Gomez sees as direct attacks on First Amendment rights and the broader implications for media and technology platforms.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. FCC’s Actions Against Disney and Press Freedom

• Weaponization of FCC:
  • Gomez outlines her core role now as calling out “the administration’s abuses of the First Amendment, particularly when it chooses to weaponize the FCC in trying to shut down any voices that it doesn’t like” (Ana Gomez, 02:36).
• Disney Case Details:
  • The focal point is the FCC’s unprecedented move to order Disney to "renew early the licenses for eight of its local broadcast stations," a move coming right after the White House demanded Jimmy Kimmel’s removal from air (03:32).
  • “This is the most egregious because it is actually putting licenses at risk, which is what this President has been demanding that the FCC do against its critics.” (Ana Gomez, 04:09)
  • The manipulation of the license renewal timeline serves as a form of pressure: “It basically threatens Disney… It’s directly meant to influence Disney’s decisions on the content of its broadcasts.” (Ana Gomez, 04:55)

2. Atmosphere of Intimidation in Broadcasting

• Broadcasters' Concerns:
  • Gomez describes widespread anxiety: “Every time I talk to a local broadcaster, the first question I get asked is, ‘What can I say? Is this going to get me into trouble?’” (Ana Gomez, 05:26)
  • She emphasizes her regulatory role is to ensure competition and diversity, not to tell broadcasters what they can say (05:51).

3. How the TV Affiliate System Works & Disney Case Specifics

• Affiliate System Context:
  • Disney owns only eight of many ABC affiliates; most are independently owned (Ana Gomez, 09:38).
  • FCC’s actions targeted a Disney-owned Texas affiliate for content aired on The View, coordinating with non-Disney affiliates to single Disney out: “That to me is a setup. Some would call that entrapment.” (Ana Gomez, 10:54)

4. Legality & First Amendment Issues

• Legality of the FCC’s Actions:
  • “It’s not [legal]. It’s absolutely unlawful. Not only is it unlawful, it’s unconstitutional.” (Ana Gomez, 11:57)
• The “Shakedown” Frame:
  • Host proposes the term “shakedown,” to which Gomez agrees: “It is clear that this is absolute harassment in order to get Disney to capitulate. The good news is that Disney is not capitulating.” (Ana Gomez, 12:39)

5. Extending Pressure Beyond TV—Targeting Tech and Media

• Campaign Beyond Linear TV:
  • Gomez draws a line from TV censorship to potential pressure on tech platforms and ad agencies: "The process is the point. The pain is the point. The threat is the point." (Ana Gomez, 15:13)
• Signal to All Media:
  • "They will go after anyone that speaks out against them.” (Ana Gomez, 16:17)

6. Chilling Effect vs. Actual Legal Losses for Administration

• Costly Litigation and Demoralization:
  • O’Leary probes whether the administration’s tactics are mainly about inflicting pain and fatigue; Gomez concurs: “The threat is the point. It really is about making it as painful as possible for these companies until they capitulate.” (Ana Gomez, 17:25)

7. Tech Sector and Spectrum Power

• Is this a Test Run for Big Tech?
  • The host questions if similar tactics could be used to pressure big tech via contracts, spectrum, and auctions (Lizzie O’Leary, 19:40).
  • Gomez warns, “Anyone who’s watching can see that this administration only wants its voice out there... Any leverage, they are going to use it.” (Ana Gomez, 20:19)
  • Cites FCC-pressured changes to DEI (diversity, equity, inclusion) programs and “enforcement by mob” tactics.

8. Press Freedom, Bona Fide News, and “Enforcement by Mob”

• FCC’s Public Comment Tactic:
  • The FCC’s request for public comment on whether The View qualifies as bona fide news is, to Gomez, “ruling by mob.” (Ana Gomez, 27:47)

9. Extent of Strategy vs. Retaliation

• Coordinated Attacks or Reactivity?
  • While the chair, Brendan Carr, authored relevant Project 2025 plans, Gomez also sees the FCC as immediately responsive “as soon as the President complains about something.” (Ana Gomez, 30:03)
• Corporate Capitulation & Pushback:
  • Gomez laments many corporations have “bent the knee” but expresses hope that recent resistance, starting with Disney, signals a new direction (33:25).

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Purposeful Targeting:
  “What this FCC is doing is... clearly targeting Disney in retaliation for its viewpoints.” – Ana Gomez, 11:16
• On Legal Standing:
  “It’s not [legal]. It’s absolutely unlawful. Not only is it unlawful, it’s unconstitutional.” – Ana Gomez, 11:57
• On the Administration’s Approach:
  “The process is the point. The pain is the point. The threat is the point.” – Ana Gomez, 15:41
• On Corporate Response:
  “…what Disney learned is that capitulation doesn’t buy you protection. It might buy you some time, but they will keep coming back and coming back for more…” – Ana Gomez, 13:57
• On “Enforcement by Mob”:
  “That is what I call enforcement by mob. I’m calling this public notice the same thing. Ruling by mob.” – Ana Gomez, 27:47
• On Corporate Capitulation:
  “We’ve seen capitulation just breed capitulation. But what we have also seen…is we’ve seen courage. And courage does beget courage.” – Ana Gomez, 33:25

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 02:36 – Gomez outlines FCC weaponization and First Amendment concerns
• 03:32 – FCC’s action against Disney and the context for license renewals
• 05:26 – Broadcasters’ fear and self-censorship
• 09:38 – How TV affiliates work and the Disney case specifics
• 11:57 – The legality and constitutionality of FCC’s actions
• 12:39 – Framing the FCC’s actions as a “shakedown”
• 15:13 – Extending the censorship campaign to tech platforms
• 17:25 – On the painful, chilling effect being the goal
• 20:19 – FCC’s use of government contract and merger authority
• 24:56 – The debate on “bona fide news interview” status for The View
• 27:47 – “Enforcement by mob” and public comment tactics
• 30:03 – Plan vs. retaliation: FCC’s response to White House complaints
• 33:25 – On courage and the potential for cultural change

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Closing

The episode spotlights the embattled state of regulatory oversight and journalistic freedom under political pressure, illustrating the legal, cultural, and procedural battlegrounds of modern media. O'Leary and Gomez deliver a stark warning about threats to the First Amendment, the durability of institutional pushback, and how the current moment may determine the future for the intersection of technology, entertainment, and speech in America.

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Transcript

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[Lizzie O'Leary]

Commissioner Ana Gomez, welcome to the show.

[Ana Gomez]

Thank you. It's good to be with you.

[Lizzie O'Leary]

In normal times, in a normal Federal Communications Commission, Ana Gomez's job might be described as wonky, nerdy, maybe even occasionally boring. But now is not that time.

[Ana Gomez]

So a large part of my role is to call out this administration's abuses of the First Amendment, particularly when it chooses to weaponize the FCC in trying to shut down any voices that it doesn't like. And we see this constantly. There is a constant infringement on the free press and on the First Amendment and on the rights of viewers and listeners to see and hear what they want to see and hear.

[Lizzie O'Leary]

Gomez is the sole Democrat on the commission and her term is set to end on June 30th. Normally, there would be five commissioners at the FCC, but right now there are only three. Two resigned last year, and the Trump administration has not nominated their replacements. So Gomez is on a First Amendment tour of sorts, telling Americans that the actions of the FCC chair, her colleague Brendan Carr, are egregious.

[Ana Gomez]

Well, the most egregious violation is the actions that this FCC has taken against Disney, particularly most recently when the day after the White House called for Jim Kimmel to be taken off the air, this FCC ordered Disney to renew early the licenses for eight of its local broadcast stations. And why that matters is because the FCC's only regulatory hook over broadcasters is over the licensing of the airwaves for these broadcast stations.

[Lizzie O'Leary]

Right. They can't do anything to Disney, Jimmy Kimmel, directly.

[Ana Gomez]

There is nothing this FCC can do to Disney, but it certainly hasn't stopped it from trying time and time again. And it has taken multiple actions against Disney and its local broadcast stations, whether it's initiating an investigation into the View or re upping a complaint that had been filed about the moderation of the debate, the presidential debate back in 2024, and keeping that open in this entire time, even though it was clear that that was not a. But this is the most egregious because it is actually putting licenses at risk, which is what this President has been demanding that the FCC do against its critics. And in having these proceedings to renew the licenses early, it basically threatens Disney and says, this is what we can do to you and we can put you through a lot of pain, even though it's too early, because those license renewals weren't due for at least two years and as long as five years from now. And it's directly meant to influence Disney's decisions on the content of its broadcasts.

[Lizzie O'Leary]

When you do these First Amendment sessions, like, what do you hear from people?

[Ana Gomez]

Yeah, I've been all over the country. I've been in small markets, I've been in large markets. I talk to free speech advocates, I talk to reporters, I talk to broadcasters, I talk to scholars. And everything that I hear is people are nervous, particularly broadcasters. And it's really disheartening for me when every time I talk to a local broadcaster, the first question I get asked is, what can I say? Is this going to get me into trouble? And my response to them is always the same. My role as your regulator is not to tell you what you can say. My role is to ensure that we have competition and a diversity of viewpoints so that people can see and hear what they want to hear and what they choose to hear and not that they are fed media that is basically nationalized and only providing you one point of view. That is the danger.

[Lizzie O'Leary]

Today on the show, we sit down with one of the FCC chairman's chief critics, his own colleague. I'm Lizzie o', Leary and you're listening to what Next tbd, a show about technology, power and how the future will be determined. Stick around.

[Ana Gomez]

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[Lizzie O'Leary]

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[Ana Gomez]

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[Ana Gomez]

Yes, that's correct. Although Disney owns and operates only eight stations nationwide, there are hundreds of ABC affiliates because there's hundreds of markets all over this country and they're owned independently by other broadcasters. Some of those broadcasters are quite large and some of them are very small. And so one of the things that this FCC did was it manufactured a complaint against the one Disney station, for example in Texas that carried the View. And although there were multiple ABC stations that carried that particular program of the View, that program of the View had a, had James Talarico on it. And that was what the FCC was investigating. Yes, and we can go into the equal time run and all of that, but my point is there were tons of other ABC affiliates that also could have had this complaint lodged against them. But the fcc, and this is really shocking and we learned this in a filing that Disney made to us recently. What the FCC did was it went to the non owned affiliates in the market at issue and it said to them, we want you to file with us and we're not going to hold it against you because of this alleged violation. They didn't go to Disney and say that. They didn't say Disney, we want you to file with us. Instead it went, they went to the other affiliates that are not owned by Disney and then it used the fact that those affiliates filed and some of them filed under protest. I will note that it used the fact that they other affiliates filed as a reason to initiate this investigation against the one Disney owned station. That to me is a setup. Some would call that entrapment. It's where the FCC manufactures an issue coordinates with the other stations so that only Disney is the outlier. Only the Disney owned station is the outlier. And this is why it is so egregious. What this FCC is doing is because it is clearly targeting Disney in retaliation for its viewpoints.

[Lizzie O'Leary]

Maybe this is a stupid question. I'm not a lawyer. You are. How is that legal?

[Ana Gomez]

It's not. It's absolutely unlawful. Not only is it unlawful, it's unconstitutional. Because what the FCC is doing is it's challenging the first amendment rights of the broadcasters, the talent, the press through all of these actions. And we are explicitly prohibiting from censoring broadcasters. But this is censorship.

[Lizzie O'Leary]

So I think it might be important to explain why to normal people. I'm sorry for using a strong word, but this feels like a shakedown. This feels like the emperor doesn't like these comedians, whether it's Jimmy Kimmel or Joy Behar. And if you don't do something, we're going to take away your affiliate licenses. Is that a fair reading?

[Ana Gomez]

No, it's absolutely a fair reading. This administration cannot tolerate anything that that is critical of it, that doesn't mention its worldview, and it is weaponizing any tool in its toolbox, whether it's the fcc, the ftc, the dod, the Department of Defense, in order to go after the press and to go after media in general that it doesn't like. And it is clear that this is absolute harassment in order to get Disney to capitulate. The good news is that Disney is not capitulating. It has actually shown courage. It has decided to stand up for its First Amendment rights and to push back. And if this gets carried out to its conclusion, and by that I mean it goes to court, the FCC will lose.

[Lizzie O'Leary]

Yeah, I was struck. It seems like Disney's new leadership might agree with you. You wrote a letter to them, and they added in a recent FCC filing that some may dislike certain or even most of the viewpoints expressed on the View or similar shows. But such dislike, however, cannot justify using regulatory processes to restrict those views. Is Disney finding a spine, or can Disney read a poll?

[Ana Gomez]

You know, for whatever reason, Disney has in fact found its spine. And I think part of that, of course, is that we saw Disney capitulate very early on when it settled the case against ABC because of the George Stephanopoulos interview. And legal scholars said there is no basis for this case, but it went ahead and settled it. And that opened the door to all of these future actions throughout against the media. And I think what Disney learned is that capitulation doesn't buy you protection. It might buy you some time, but they will keep coming back and coming back for more because what they demand is absolutely allegiance to this administration and nothing else.

[Lizzie O'Leary]

Whether or not you pay $15 million and apologize.

[Ana Gomez]

Exactly.

[Lizzie O'Leary]

So the thing that I'm curious about and what I really wanted to get your thoughts on is not just where this impacts tv. Right. We have seen this pattern repeatedly in tv, but linear tv, while it still makes a lot of money, is dying. How much of this campaign is about pressuring tech platforms?

[Ana Gomez]

You know, like I said, there is an absolute campaign by this administration to censor and control any media outlet. Using whatever levers it has at its power. So for example, let's look at social media. The Federal Trade Commission used the fact that there were two ad agencies merging to force them to carry ads on Twitter, which they had stopped doing because of some of the content that they found to be harmful to their clients interests. And that is forced speech. That is a First Amendment violation. So I do believe that this administration is sending a signal. Because what I tell people is we have seen media companies win time and time again against this administration when they go to court. But litigation and regulatory investigations are costly. And a lot of companies, corporate parents, make the decision that it is actually less painful to settle and to capitulate than it is to fight. So the process is the point. The pain is the point. The threat is the point. They don't want this to be carried out to its fruition. They want it to just force the companies enough pain so that they will capitulate. Now, I think this is a signal to every part of media that they will do this to them. Whether it's to the New York Times, to the Wall Street Journal, to the universities, to law firms, to broadcasters. They will go after anyone that speaks out against them.

[Lizzie O'Leary]

But as you've said, a lot of these cases do not hold up in court, right? Like, once the legal process moves through, the administration loses. But I wonder at that point, like, what is left? Is this about the court case? Or is this really just about demoralizing, costing a lot of money, costing people customers, and kind of getting the public to say, like, ugh, this sucks, I don't care anymore.

[Ana Gomez]

Yeah, no, like I said, the threat is the point. It really is about making it as painful as possible for these companies until they capitulate. But I am heartened. I'm heartened by the pushback that we have seen from individuals, individual companies, individual publishers, and by Disney in fighting back. Because this is what they need to do. This is why I wrote my letter to Disney. This is why I embarked on a First Amendment tour a year ago. Because I was so alarmed by what I was seeing. And I've been warning people for a long time and it's finally starting to catch on that if they don't push back, we are gonna have weekend constitutional protections and our democracy is gonna be harmed by this. So if Disney carries us through and everything that I see makes me think that they will, they hired a fantastic lawyer and they wrote a really great brief that they filed before the FCC that is clearly signaling that they will take this to court if The FCC decides to take some adverse action and if they do that, they will win.

[Lizzie O'Leary]

When we come back. Is this all a warm up act to pressure Big Tech?

[Ana Gomez]

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[Lizzie O'Leary]

I think that if we were to look ahead a little bit, one question I have is whether this is sort of a test run for Internet content regulation. Because while the FCC does not regulate the Internet, you do have spectrum auctions. The sort of guts of the Internet very much fall under FCC purview. And I guess I wonder if you are Google, if you're TikTok, if you're meta, will you learn that if you oppose the government in one place, you're not going to get your DoD contract? Like is that the next step? Is that the end game?

[Ana Gomez]

You know, based on everything that we've seen, this administration will use any lever of power and it is using government contracts in order to change voices. You know, it did that with the universities, for example, and grants, which are a form of government contract. So yes, I mean, anyone who's watching can see that this administration only wants its voice out there and doesn't want anyone else's voice any dissent whatsoever. So any leverage, they are going to use it. The FCC's already used its leverage over mergers in order to force companies to drop its diversity, equity and inclusion programs. And what I tell people is there is a First Amendment component to these programs because it is telling companies what their employees can say, who they can associate with. There is speech there besides the fact that diversity, equity and inclusion programs are actually good for the companies themselves, for their bottom lines, but they're also for the productivity of their workforce. It doesn't matter. We are absolutely weaponizing our merger authorization authority in order to force companies to drop that. We weaponized our merger authority when we forced Paramount to impose a ombudsperson to oversee complaints for all of its content, not just the news organization, but all of its content. And that was absolutely an unlawful move on our part, but it was treated as if it was a voluntary concession on Paramount's part and not never reviewed in court. So, you know, your question is a valid question. Will they use their government contracting authority? Will they use DOD's contracting authority? We've already seen where DOD's has gone after a company. Absolutely. In retribution for their standing up for their own morals.

[Lizzie O'Leary]

I assume you mean anthropic.

[Ana Gomez]

Yes.

[Lizzie O'Leary]

But can't you argue that the administration won? I mean, Stephen Colbert is off the air, right? Jerry Redstone, David Ellison, they got the merger that they wanted, and it looks like maybe Brendan Carr won that round.

[Ana Gomez]

You know, the fcc, the administration has been able to get its way in a variety of ways, but when it gets challenged in court, it loses. And then it tries to skirt around those legal decisions. And the judges are really, I think, at the end of their rope with this administration with regard to that. For example, you know, the DOD forcing reporters to go, I don't know, stand in tents, I don't know where exactly they've put them in order to be able to circumvent the judge's decision that they in fact, could not impose restrictions on the press because they don't like what the press reports. Same thing with the ap. The AP won its case against the White House when the White House tried to bar them from the press pool because it refused to use the administration's preferred term for the Gulf of Mexico. So they are finding ways around it. But that is why I continue to sound the alarm that this capitulation is actually harmful in the grand scheme of things. And that is why we are really at an inflection point here. Whether companies decide that they're going to give up their First Amendment rights or they're actually going to do something to protect them. And I'm happy to see that Disney seems to be on the latter side.

[Lizzie O'Leary]

What can you do, though, besides write letters? You don't have a lot of power.

[Ana Gomez]

You know, I do whatever I can to call out attention, whether it's the letters, whether it's my First Amendment tour, whether it's speaking to you. Because I want everyone to know what is happening and that it is not normal and it is not right.

[Lizzie O'Leary]

We began this conversation talking about Disney. And I want to return to that for a second because the chairman posted a letter online basically saying, hey, public, this is a public notice. You can file a comment on the question of whether the View is a bona fide news and interview program. And I don't want to let this interview go by without asking you if the View is a news show.

[Ana Gomez]

So one of the things that we learned from the Disney filing that we got, I can't remember two weeks ago, ish, was that, in fact, they had gotten a ruling from the FCC that the View was what's called a bona fide news interview show. And to explain that really quickly, we have this rule that's based in the law that if a broadcaster has a candidate on its station, then it has to provide the opportunity for equal time to all the other candidates in that particular election. But Congress wrote an exception to that law, and we implemented it in our rule. And that is that if you are a bona fide news program or have a bona fide news interview, then you are exempt from that requirement. So Disney already had that ruling from the fcc. But this goes back to my discussion about the shocking way that the FCC went about going after this particular program on the View, because the FCC just ignored that and it demanded that Disney file with the fcc, basically a petition asking the FCC to declare that it is a bona fide news interview program. Why do we allow bona fide news and bona fide news interviews? It's because Congress recognized that if you had to have every single candidate on the show or give it similar time, it would become unreasonable. In California, you have dozens and dozens and dozens of candidates. And so what will happen happen is without this bona fide news exemption or news interview exemption, what you're going to have is that these broadcasters are just going to choose to stop having the candidates themselves on the shows because it's just not worth it for them to have to try to juggle all of this candidates and all of these different elections in order to meet the FCC's requirements. So what really appalled me about the fact that the FCC issued this call for comments is that what we're doing really is we're ginning up dissent, we're ginning up complaints, because I guarantee you what I'm gonna hear next is I'm gonna see an order that says, nope. We've heard from plenty of people that think you're partisan and therefore you're not entitled to this exemption. This is, by the way, what they did with the 60 Minutes interview that Paramount had with Kamala Harris, where they literally sought comment. The FCC sought comment on the broadcast itself and said to viewers, don't you think this violates our rules? That is what I call enforcement by mob. I'm calling this public notice the same thing. Ruling by mob.

[Lizzie O'Leary]

Because that was so clearly in, you know, that was so clearly an effort to say, if you don't do this, we will not approve your merger.

[Ana Gomez]

Yeah, yeah, no, that was definitely harassment, too. In this case. This is more. They are asking for people to file with us and to complain that they think that this is partisan. To be clear, the reason they want to declare the View to be partisan is because the test for whether you are qualified for the bona fide news interview exemption is both that the station or the broadcaster has determined that there is, in fact, a newsworthiness to interviewing this particular candidate, and the interview itself is not being done to either help or hinder a particular candidate. But, you know, when the public just hears partisan, they hear what partisan groups have been saying, which is that the View is too liberal. They only have liberals on. But another thing that we learned from Disney in their filing is that they have invited a lot of conservative people and members of this administration, and they have all declined to appear on the View. So, again, this administration is manufacturing a reason to go after Disney because of content it doesn't like.

[Lizzie O'Leary]

So I think one of the questions I have for you as someone who is inside the commission, is how much of this feels like the execution of a plan. After all, the chairman, Brendan Carr, wrote the section of Project 2025 on the FCC. And how much of this is scattershot retribution for something that President Trump saw on TV and didn't like?

[Ana Gomez]

Well, it's clear that this FCC reacts as soon as the President complains about something. It did so when it went after the Disney licenses recently. It did so when it basically said, yes, we're gonna allow this one broadcast merger. Immediately after the White House tweeted support for a particular broadcast merger, there is clear direction coming from the White House and there are partisans, organizations that themselves have actually said that they file at the FCC when the President calls for a complaint or for an action to be taken, a complaint with the fcc. There is a clear coordinated strategy against broadcasters and against in particular, Disney and also Comcast, NBCUniversal, because this president does not like the content of their late night shows, their daytime shows, their news broadcasts, or whatever.

[Lizzie O'Leary]

How is your personal relationship with Chairman Carr? Because I've seen him quoted saying things like Good for her. When you like, how's your working relationship?

[Ana Gomez]

We actually work very well together. I don't talk about the chairman or, you know, our discussions or anything like that. There's a certain level of respect that we have for that. But we do have a good working relationship.

[Lizzie O'Leary]

But how can you do that when you're also saying, like, this is disrespect for the First Amendment?

[Ana Gomez]

I think there's a way that you can do this. And, you know, you'll notice neither one of us ever attacks each other personally. And we try not to make it personal. But I can absolutely call out this administration for what it's doing, and I do it.

[Lizzie O'Leary]

I am a journalist, so obviously I'm biased. I feel like this is a bedrock American value. I sleep in a T shirt with the First Amendment written on it. And I wonder where you think we are in terms of threats to the Bill of Rights, because I will go to the mattresses for the First Amendment no matter what. But I wonder where most Americans think we are or don't even know we are. Are we in a danger zone? Where are we?

[Ana Gomez]

I definitely think that we are slipping. And a lot of that has to do with the capitulation. Now, when we talk about the First Amendment, we're talking about it writ large, of course. And the first year of this administration, we saw a lot of corporate capitulation and a lot of other entities capitulating. We saw law firms capitulating to this administration's demands about who they can represent, which is really crazy. We saw universities capitulating in the name of, which is ironic, in the name of free speech. This administration took a lot of retaliatory action against the universities. A lot of them capitulated. We saw it with Paramount. We've seen it with other telecom companies who have bent the knee and said, okay, no diversity, equity and inclusion programs. We've seen capitulation just breed capitulation. But what we have also seen, like I said, is we've seen courage. And courage does beget courage.

[Lizzie O'Leary]

Why are they such cowards?

[Ana Gomez]

I think. Well, I would say it's more corporate self interest, not paying attention, potato, potato. Not paying attention to the fact that they are actually weakening our democracy. But I think people are waking up, and I'm seeing that. I'm seeing that in more pushback because it is a danger to our democracy, but also because what everyone has learned is that capitulation doesn't stop the administration from coming back and demanding more, more and more and more.

[Lizzie O'Leary]

Ana Gomez, thank you so much for your time for coming on today.

[Ana Gomez]

Thank you.

[Lizzie O'Leary]

Anna Gomez is a Democrat and commissioner at the Federal Communications Commission. And that is it for our show today. What Next? TBD is produced by Evan Campbell. This show is edited by Patrick Fort. Paige Osborne is the senior supervising producer for what Next and what Next tbd. Mia Lobel is the executive producer of podcasts here at sl, and TBD is part of the larger what Next family. We'll be back next week. I'm Lizzie o'. Leary. Thanks for listening.

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