A New Year's Repost! Zohran Mamdani (NYC's Brand New Mayor) Pops In

Summary

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What Now? with Trevor Noah

Episode: A New Year's Repost! Zohran Mamdani (NYC's Brand New Mayor) Pops In
Date: January 1, 2026

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Overview:

In this lively and candid episode, Trevor Noah welcomes Zohran Mamdani—New York City's newly elected mayor—for a freewheeling, insightful, and often hilarious conversation. Together with regulars Eugene and Dave, they explore Mamdani’s vision for NYC, the humanity behind the policymaker, and the nuts and bolts of both lofty and everyday challenges in urban governance. The conversation is marked by Trevor’s signature blend of humor and depth, candid camaraderie, and probing questions about progressivism, power, and the practicalities of running a world-class city.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Personal Connections, Background, and Identity

• The episode opens with friendly banter about shared Ugandan roots, music memories, and the reality of past lives before public service.
  • Memorable moment (03:30): "They should sing at your inauguration. You know what's stuck in my head?" – Trevor Noah references a shared musical past with Mamdani.
• On adjusting to his new public role:
  • Mamdani reflects on how being mayor has changed his sense of freedom in NYC, especially in finding privacy:

    “For my wife and I, going out at night, like, going for a walk at night...has a different kind of meaning now because it's where we can find a little bit of anonymity.” — Zohran Mamdani (11:00)

• Trevor encourages bringing the authentic, human side of politicians to the fore versus the caricatures typically portrayed in media.

  “People sort of don't know you. And I think a lot of people would like to know who the human being is behind some of these ideas.” — Trevor Noah (14:14)

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2. Transitioning Into Power & Building a Team

[16:16–20:35]

• Mamdani breaks down the transition period before officially taking office: selecting deputies, staff, and a new police commissioner.
• On being a non-establishment candidate, he highlights the independence in picking people for competence and vision—not owing political favors.

  “It’s quite liberating... You’re just actually making decisions based on, do you think this person can do the job? How can they show you that they've already done the job?” — Zohran Mamdani (17:48)

• Importance of balancing "fluency with government" and an "imagination that is unburdened by the difficulties of working within that government."

  “Sometimes you would think the more time you spend in government, the less ambitious you become... but the people you want are the ones who say, ‘It’s difficult, and here’s how.’” (19:07)

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3. Vision and Challenges of Being a Progressive Mayor

[20:35–26:28]

• Trevor probes why progressives often struggle to inspire belief in big change, while Republicans push massive, ambitious projects (e.g., “the wall”).

  “Republicans have a limitless imagination... As Democrats, we’re constructing an ever-lowering ceiling of possibility.” — Mamdani (21:28-21:34)

• Trevor’s theory: decline of religion on the left parallels waning collective faith in possibility and change.

  “Faith requires you to believe this current state... is not the end. There is a possibility that something can be greater, even though you cannot see it.” — Trevor Noah (23:54)

• Mamdani’s approach: focus on three concrete, deliverable policies—freezing rents for rent-stabilized tenants, making buses fast and free, and universal childcare.

  “Every day I’m going to wake up pushing these three things forward…what frustrates so many is... it looks like someone is not even trying.” — Zohran Mamdani (25:56)

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4. The Powers and Limits of NYC’s Mayor

• Discussion of what authority the mayor actually has, e.g., influence over the Rent Guidelines Board (28:04), and where coalitions with state government are required (universal childcare, free buses).

  “Being the mayor… comes with immense power—not to say total power at all—but immense power to at least start an agenda and then deliver when you build the coalition you need.” — Zohran Mamdani (29:37)

• “Book of power” joke—how much can you actually do? Playful skepticism about knowing every mayoral authority. (30:25, 37:15)

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5. Macro Policies vs. Everyday Micro-Issues

[34:33–41:11]

• A comic town-hall moment: Dave’s obsession with the volume of ambulance sirens (“Way too loud in New York!” – 35:35). Sparks a real conversation on how “small” issues are not trivial but affect public trust.

  “Government has often said a crisis is too big… but also that an issue is too small, it’s not worth our time… Wherever you are losing people’s faith, losing people’s trust, that’s where you’re losing their faith and trust in an ambitious agenda.” — Zohran Mamdani (39:12)

• Trevor underscores the difference between perception and reality in urban life:

  “Some things can make people feel safer. Some things actually make you safer… How a politician manages that, when you get into that position…” — Trevor Noah (42:12)

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6. Policy Details: Rationale and Practicality

[43:02–55:31]

- Rent Freeze:

• The cost of living is unsustainable; rent stabilization affects about half of NYC tenants.

- Faster, Free Buses:

• NYC buses are the slowest in America (avg. in Manhattan: 5 mph).
• More than a million daily riders; current fare of $2.90 is a barrier for 1 in 5 New Yorkers.
• Free buses increase accessibility and public safety, reduce assaults on drivers, and cut waiting times.

  “When you make the bus free... you provide economic relief, make it safer... and even make people feel safer to an even higher degree.” — Z. Mamdani (44:14)

• Means-testing (eligibility-based) vs. universality: means-testing misses many and adds bureaucracy.

  “Whenever you create a means-tested program, you are comfortable to some level with saying goodbye to people who would be eligible for it.” — Z. Mamdani (48:07)

- Universal Childcare:

• The average annual cost is $22,500, close to average working-class salaries.
• When government doesn't step in, the burden falls on companies or families—creating inequality.
• The absence of universal childcare cost NYC $23 billion in lost activity in 2022 (people leaving the city/workforce).
• Plan: build on existing Pre-K/3K infrastructure, offer both home-based and center-based care, scale urgently.

  “80% of New Yorkers with children under five cannot afford childcare in this city.” — Z. Mamdani (55:31)

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7. Labels, Socialism, and Public Perception

[55:34–58:21]

• Labels like “socialist” or “communist” used as caricature or for political attacks.
• Mamdani explains his politics as fundamentally about dignity and ensuring basic needs aren’t rationed out of reach:

  “There must be a better distribution of wealth for all of God’s children in this country. It comes back to dignity... You should not be priced out of a necessity.” — Z. Mamdani (56:31)

• Most NYC residents are less interested in ideology than in whether Mamdani’s policies address their real struggles.

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8. Campaign Philosophy & Teamwork

[57:39–58:21]

• Success owed to a collective team, not just the public face:

  “Losing sight of the collective and thinking it’s all about the individual...means you lose sight of how this campaign was built.” — Z. Mamdani (58:11)

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9. To Be Continued…

[58:24–59:49]

• Trevor requests a promise for a follow-up, to talk about Mamdani’s personal journey, passions, and South Africa. Zoran agrees.
• The energy remains playful as Zoran lists South African artists he’d like to discuss in the future.

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Notable Quotes

• On “off the record” in public life:

  “Nothing is off the record… When there’s a microphone, when there’s a camera, it’s somewhere.” — Trevor Noah (04:05)

• On public trust:

  “You can’t finger-wag your way to getting someone invested… You have to prove it to them.” — Z. Mamdani (41:11)

• On the mayor's unique opportunity:

  “Being the mayor… comes with immense power—not to say total power… but immense power to at least start an agenda and deliver when you build the coalition.” — Z. Mamdani (29:37)

• On the core of progressive politics:

  “You have to have an affirmative vision of how life can be better than this, because this life already is suffocating people.” — Z. Mamdani (21:41)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [11:00] – Mamdani on the emotional impact of new public visibility
• [14:14] – Trevor presses for the “human being” behind the mayor
• [16:28–20:35] – Selecting a team, power of independence, and transition work
• [21:28–21:41] – On progressive/lower expectation vs. conservative “limitless imagination”
• [25:56] – “Every day I’m going to wake up pushing these three things forward.”
• [28:04, 29:37] – What the mayor can and cannot do unilaterally
• [39:12, 41:11] – Small issues = big trust; why details matter for public faith
• [44:14] – Safety & perception: Results from free bus pilot projects
• [48:07, 55:31] – Universal vs. means-tested programs, childcare crisis statistics
• [56:31] – Defining socialism as about dignity, not ideology
• [58:24–59:49] – Promise of a follow-up; South Africa, music, and culture

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Tone and Style

True to Trevor Noah’s style, the episode balances earnest policy talk and big questions with ongoing humor, friendship, and down-to-earth banter. The guests and host keep the conversation accessible, skipping political jargon for lived experience, stories, and relatable metaphors (“collect Ugandans,” “book of power,” “ambulance volume,” “relationship Tupperware”). Mamdani comes across as thoughtful, candid, and practical, while Trevor and the others never miss a chance for a playful jab, keeping the atmosphere authentic and vibrant.

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Summary Prepared For: Listeners and Non-Listeners Alike — Wanting the Substance, Spirit, and Standout Moments of Trevor Noah’s Conversation with Mayor Zohran Mamdani

Transcript

[Trevor Noah]

This is what now with Trevor Noah. This episode is presented by Whole Foods Market. Eat well for less.

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In shady times, let there be drag.

RuPaul's Drag Race is back on MTV. 14 new queens shine brighter than ever.

[Trevor Noah]

This is OG Drag Race. See what everybody is made of.

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Who will be crowned America's brightest drag superstar?

[Trevor Noah]

Is this gonna knock out of this competition?

[Dave]

This is my moment to shine.

[RuPaul's Drag Race Promo Voice]

And extra special guest judge Cardi B is ringing. The drama that was so fun. Drew Paul's Drag Race new season premieres Friday, January 2nd at 87 Central. Watch on MTV.

[Trevor Noah]

This message is a paid partnership with Apple Card. Imagine this. You're at a checkout counter. You're ready to pay when you realize you don't have your wallet.

[Dave]

Dun, dun, dun.

[Trevor Noah]

You could drive all the way back home and you could get it. But you remember that you have your Apple card on your iPhone so you can tap to pay with Apple pay. Imagine that. No need to carry a wallet. But, you know, one of the things I do like about having my card on my phone is we live in a world where you lose your card and then you don't know where it is. And then you're like, what do I do? Well, if your phone is connected to your card and your card is connected to your phone, you know what's going on. The best thing about having the Apple card connected to your phone is you know what every transaction is. You, you know, like sometimes you're like, what did I spend this month? The Apple card will show you. One month. I had spent an obscene amount of money ordering videos online.

[Eugene]

Just videos?

[Trevor Noah]

They were just videos.

[Eugene]

What kind of videos?

[Trevor Noah]

That's not the point. The point is I knew that I didn't want to order those videos anymore. Cause I'd spent too much money on was videos on how to not spend money online. I felt like I'd been duped. Point is, Apple showed me what I was spending my money on and I was able to change my spending habits. And you can do it too. I earn up to 3% daily cash back on every purchase with my Apple card. That's unlimited daily cash back no matter where I shop. Apply for Apple card in the wallet app on your iPhone. Subject to credit approval. Apple card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Salt Lake City Branch terms and more at applecard.com.

[Zoran Mamdani]

God bless. How you doing, man?

[Trevor Noah]

Good to see you. Congratulations, by the way.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Thank you very much.

[Eugene]

What did you win?

[Zoran Mamdani]

Very much, huh?

[Trevor Noah]

He won an all expenses paid trip.

[Dave]

Almost a Premier league to the Upper east side.

[Trevor Noah]

All expenses paid trip to the Upper east side. Call a number.

[Dave]

What?

[Trevor Noah]

What number? Mayor, are you.

[Zoran Mamdani]

By the way, they're saying it's 112.

[Trevor Noah]

No ways. Peaches and Cream.

[Zoran Mamdani]

What?

[Trevor Noah]

They should sing at your inauguration. You know what's stuck in my head?

[Zoran Mamdani]

What?

[Trevor Noah]

Kanda. Yes, Kanda. That was a vibe, man. That was me.

[Zoran Mamdani]

We made sound city top 10.

[Trevor Noah]

That was me. The whole songs of the week. You don't even understand the top 10.

[Eugene]

Who's that other guy?

[Zoran Mamdani]

Yeah, I grew up with him.

[Eugene]

Where is he?

[Zoran Mamdani]

He's in Kampala.

[Eugene]

Has he reached out to you?

[Dave]

Yeah.

[Zoran Mamdani]

No, I'm in touch with him. He's a close friend.

[Eugene]

When you won, did Hud say you did it?

[Trevor Noah]

We were like, is it Hab or is it hab?

[Zoran Mamdani]

Hab.

[Trevor Noah]

It is hab, right?

[Dave]

So it's hab.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Hab. Hab. Sorry, I thought you were asking me to spell.

[Trevor Noah]

No, I didn't know if it's. We were like. Because it was all in. Then we were like, is this. Is it Hub or is it Hab?

[Eugene]

Did Hub text you and go. How did you convince them? Because I'm sure Hub remembers rolling with you trying to go to a radio station in Kampala, trying to get your song played. Then he was like, you couldn't convince one station manager in Kampala?

[Zoran Mamdani]

How did you do this?

[Eugene]

The whole of New York.

[Zoran Mamdani]

How you know the reason his name is Hub. Tell me if we're off the record or. Nothing is off there.

[Trevor Noah]

Nothing's off the record. Don't say anything when the red light is on.

[Dave]

Nothing is.

[Trevor Noah]

Let me tell you the first thing. Can I tell you. I'll give you a tip.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Give it to.

[Trevor Noah]

That I learned, like, very early on with the Daily show and everything. Nothing is off the record.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Never going to know.

[Trevor Noah]

No, no.

[Zoran Mamdani]

When you.

[Trevor Noah]

If you.

[Dave]

When you walk out the room.

[Trevor Noah]

Let me explain. Let me explain. Let me explain. When you walk out. This has always fascinated me in America is when I'll see people. Like, some footage will come out from 20 years ago or something. And it'll be something that was sort of behind.

[Eugene]

Sorry.

[Dave]

No, not Kanda.

[Trevor Noah]

The. Remember the ninjas who were dancing? There was the other video, though. Yes, yes, that was that one.

[Zoran Mamdani]

You know, my regret is that my dad dressed up as a ninja.

[Trevor Noah]

You're lying.

[Zoran Mamdani]

For that video. And the director of the video taped over that part.

[Dave]

No, no.

[Eugene]

That male ninja stole the show, though.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, there was one. There was one ninja in one of.

[Eugene]

So much swag for a ninja. I was like, this one. This Ninja's black. This a black ninja.

[Trevor Noah]

Oh, man.

[Eugene]

Yeah. Tell me about this thing about America, because I'm trying to as much as I can.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah. So what I was saying is, like, I was always intrigued by how people would trust just like a handshake agreement everywhere. People like, oh, this is off the record. But there's a camera rolling and the sound recording. And we're like, this is off the record. And then 10 years later or five years later, even a day later, the clip comes out. And then people are like, but. But that was behind the scenes. You're like, yes, there's a camera when you're wearing a microphone. When there's a microphone, when there's a camera, it's somewhere.

[Eugene]

Because the editor was like, I'm not part of your agreement.

[Trevor Noah]

It's somewhere. Remember, grab them by the pussy.

[Eugene]

I wasn't there. But why are you saying, do I remember?

[Zoran Mamdani]

I'm leaving this between you guys.

[Eugene]

The way he said, do you remember?

[Trevor Noah]

You're right, actually, I shouldn't have done it. Made it seem.

[Eugene]

I accept your apology.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, I apologize. But my point is, that was all off camera.

[Eugene]

You know who also owes.

[Trevor Noah]

That was all off camera.

[Eugene]

Who? The editor that edited Zoran's dad out of the.

[Dave]

I still can't believe he recorded.

[Zoran Mamdani]

But that's how you. Yes.

[Trevor Noah]

Oh, by the way, this is. This is a special. Like, this is. I was like, how do. How do we make this time special with you? And I thought to myself, you've got drawn Mamdani on the podcast. But I was like, how many. You know how many tie ins we have in our lives, right? So born in Africa. Born in Africa. Then Ugandan, right? Born in Uganda. Then I was like, do you know how many Ugandans I have in my life? In my head, I thought to myself, like, I collect Ugandans. And I was like, but you can't say that. Don't say it like that.

[Dave]

No.

[Trevor Noah]

Anyway. No, no, no.

[Zoran Mamdani]

But I.

[Trevor Noah]

No, no. I'm saying I wasn't going to say it. This is off the record.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Taking us through the.

[Trevor Noah]

This is off the record. I'm letting you know what was in my head. This is off the record, so you can't use it against me. So then I was like, I collect Ugandans. And I was like, but you can't say it like that. So you got to be like. I mean, I have a lot of you. I don't know how this happened. I have a lot of Ugandan friends in my life. Of Ugandan friends.

[Zoran Mamdani]

You say it like it's a.

[Trevor Noah]

Like a what?

[Eugene]

Problem.

[Trevor Noah]

No, no, no. You made it sound like a problem. Z. Don't put that on.

[Eugene]

See what it feels like.

[Trevor Noah]

Don't put that on.

[Eugene]

Someone puts you in a scene, you.

[Trevor Noah]

Owe me an apology. I'll take my apology now.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Which camera?

[Trevor Noah]

Not to me. No, this is not about them.

[Eugene]

The deposition.

[Trevor Noah]

This is straight to me. Straight to me. I'll take my apologies on.

[Zoran Mamdani]

I apologize.

[Trevor Noah]

Thank you. Thank you very much. So then I was like, I'm just going to bring them all in. So I was like, my best friend who's Indian, my other best friend who's Ugandan and South African. They've even got microphones. They can just throw things in.

[Dave]

Where?

[Trevor Noah]

Where in Uganda, by the way?

[Dave]

Kampala. That's where I was born.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Where were you born?

[Dave]

In Kampala Mar.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Okay. In Zambia Hospital. Oh, wow. Yeah. Yes.

[Dave]

But I moved to South Africa like you. I can hear. Yeah, yeah. And New York like you.

[Eugene]

You guys hated that place.

[Trevor Noah]

Which place? South Africa or Uganda?

[Eugene]

Two places before you were like.

[Dave]

It.

[Trevor Noah]

Actually is a crazy story. Think about it.

[Dave]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

You guys both came from Uganda.

[Dave]

I mean, you're not helpful to me because my parents are like, I mean, look at Matt Zorin's day.

[Zoran Mamdani]

I'm sorry, man.

[Dave]

He's raised the ceiling for what's crazy.

[Trevor Noah]

They thought you had achieved, and now they're like, wait, you could have done this. This is what you could have done. How many people are shocked? Eugene and I were talking about that the whole day. Like, there's gotta be a section of people in your life who are still shocked at the idea of you being the mayor of arguably the most important cities in the world. Hab.

[Eugene]

Oh, hab.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

Hub. Not Hub. Different Hub.

[Dave]

Hab.

[Trevor Noah]

Think of Heb. No, but there must be, like, genuinely, just on, like, a personal level, there must be a ton of people out there who go, they just know you as Zoran.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

And then now you are Zoran Mamdani, the next mayor of New York City.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Yeah. I mean, it's. It's true. Not just in Kampala, but also here in New York City. I mean, there are people I would play on a rec soccer team with. And I was just reading this article today about. About a lot of their reactions and reflections.

[Trevor Noah]

Do you still play with them?

[Zoran Mamdani]

I haven't in a while.

[Trevor Noah]

Why not? I saw you still have the skills, by the way. I was very impressed.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Highly edited.

[Trevor Noah]

No, no, no, no. You can't edit those skills. No, no, no. You're lying. You can't. No, you can't edit those skills.

[Zoran Mamdani]

You.

[Trevor Noah]

You like. You play. What position did you play?

[Zoran Mamdani]

I have the classic journey of someone who played up top and then lost all of their speed and now plays at left back. That's. That's where I am.

[Trevor Noah]

I started my journey at left back.

[Dave]

You know what? You know when people say.

[Trevor Noah]

You know when people say, I fe. Yeah. I used to be good, and then now I play where you play all the time.

[Dave]

That's me, Trevor. That's me.

[Trevor Noah]

I genuinely love that for you, man. I just, like, how much has your life changed now? Like, is it. And I don't know if this is just anecdotal. We were chatting with Ryan about this. We were going. It feels like your social media has gotten a little more serious now, which makes sense, but I don't know if that's just how it looks online. Do you feel like a more serious shift in your life?

[Zoran Mamdani]

I think I don't feel burdened by it. I feel like sometimes that's implicit in the sense of the seriousness. It's. You can both take it for the weight that it has and also not lose sight of the fact that it's an incredible opportunity.

[Dave]

Right.

[Zoran Mamdani]

And I think, for me, the idea that it's my job to represent this city that I love and that my job means I get to speak to New Yorkers and go across the five boroughs and see people in their own lives, it's amazing. And then there's also. There are parts of it that are absurd. You know, like, I told my landlord I was moving out, and she. She was, you know, jokingly saying, you know, make sure you clean up the apartment. If you don't, I know where you're moving to. I remember. Everybody knows.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, everyone knows everything about you. Like, there's. There's pretty.

[Zoran Mamdani]

This is.

[Trevor Noah]

This is your life.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

Forevermore, this is. This is your life. It'll never be the same after this.

[Zoran Mamdani]

It won't. But I think that's what I love, though, is that you learn different parts of the city because of what your life is like now. You know, I think, like, for my wife and I, we going out at night, like, going for a walk at night.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Zoran Mamdani]

It has a different kind of meaning now because it's where we can find a little bit of anonymity. Right. And so you start to appreciate the city at an hour that you otherwise wouldn't have gone before because you didn't have to make that kind of a decision.

[Trevor Noah]

Oh, okay.

[Eugene]

Do you have a night voice?

[Trevor Noah]

It would be.

[Dave]

I'm Zoran. Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

You can't still be Zoran with a night voice.

[Eugene]

Who?

[Trevor Noah]

Mr. Cardamom.

[Dave]

Yes. Yes.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Mayor Cardamom.

[Trevor Noah]

Mayor Cardamom.

[Eugene]

Mayor Cardamom to you.

[Trevor Noah]

When the knights of New York get rough and Zordon can't do it, I'm here.

[Dave]

Yes. That's it.

[Trevor Noah]

Don't go anywhere. Cause we got more. What now? After this.

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RuPaul's Drag Race is back on MTV. 14 new queens shine brighter than ever.

[Trevor Noah]

This is OG Drag Race. See what everybody is made of.

[RuPaul's Drag Race Promo Voice]

Who will be crowned America's brightest drag superstar?

[Trevor Noah]

Is this gonna knock me out of this competition?

[Dave]

This is my moment to shine.

[RuPaul's Drag Race Promo Voice]

And extra special guest judge Cardi is ringing. The drama that was so fun. Drew Paul's Drag Race new season premieres Friday, January 2nd at 8, 7 Central. Watch on MTV.

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[Trevor Noah]

What do you have to lose?

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[Trevor Noah]

That's what I'm talking about. All right, so I know we don't have a lot of time with you, so I wanted to. I spent a lot of time thinking about this. I was like, you're a very busy person now and, you know, you're doing all these things. I was trying to think, if somebody was watching this episode, what would they hope to get from the conversation? There were only three things that really, really stuck out for me, like three. Three larger ideas. One was how you see the future of New York City, how you want to build it, how you want to Change it, What you want to improve, what you think the challenges will be, et cetera. It's like the job, job part of it. The second part of it is the human being. And the reason I say that is because in everything that I've seen of yours, genuinely, it's either like, caricatures of people who hate you or just, like, pieces about what you want to do. But people sort of don't know you.

[Eugene]

You.

[Trevor Noah]

And I think a lot of people would like to know who the human being is behind some of these ideas. And then the last part is just, like, random shit that we'll talk about because you're also, like, a person you see. Like, now you did a joke with us. I think you're the first politician I know who's ever told me, like, a joke. Maybe Obama was the first time where I was like, oh, this person actually knows humor. Do you know what I mean? But you're just like a. Like a dude. He's just like, a guy.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Just a guy.

[Dave]

He is at night. I don't know. Oh, man.

[Trevor Noah]

So let's. Okay, let's talk about New York.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Wait, hold on. Where are you from?

[Eugene]

South Africa.

[Zoran Mamdani]

We're in South Africa.

[Eugene]

Born in Pretoria.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Okay.

[Trevor Noah]

But now lives against our time, by the way.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Sorry.

[Dave]

You know I love you, Eugene.

[Trevor Noah]

I just want to know if this counts against our time.

[Dave]

Wait, what did you say?

[Trevor Noah]

Does this count against our time?

[Eugene]

No, before that.

[Trevor Noah]

You know, I love you, Eugene.

[Zoran Mamdani]

You finally got it. You finally got it. How many podcast episodes does this take?

[Dave]

15.

[Eugene]

Thank you.

[Zoran Mamdani]

You are loved.

[Eugene]

Thank you.

[Zoran Mamdani]

You are seen.

[Eugene]

Thank you.

[Zoran Mamdani]

You are enough.

[Eugene]

Is this what it took?

[Dave]

So is this.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Come on.

[Trevor Noah]

Johannesburg by way of Pretoria, South Africa.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Josie, stand up.

[Trevor Noah]

Come on. You know. You know this. You know this. So let's talk about New York. And then. And then we'll go. We'll go through your life. Sorry, Eugene.

[Eugene]

Sorry.

[Trevor Noah]

Because now they're gonna be like, you've.

[Dave]

Run out of time.

[Trevor Noah]

And then I'll be like, some of that time was taken by just. You know what we can even do? We can edit you in saying things about your life. We just will. When you leave, you're just gonna sit.

[Dave]

Here and just be like.

[Trevor Noah]

And then I. And we'll put that.

[Eugene]

We'll call Ryan to double.

[Trevor Noah]

And then we'll put a stunt double in. Ryan, you'll be Zoran, stunt double. And then you must just like. Yeah, but anyway, so let's.

[Eugene]

Let's.

[Dave]

Sorry. New York City.

[Trevor Noah]

Actually run us through the process. Right? Like, what's. What what are the orders of business that you. That you're doing right now? Like, let's, let's. Let's go from the shortest term and let's build out as. As. As. As your job you doing right now.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Right now is the transition period. Okay. So right now is the time where we are vetting applicants who are making hiring decisions. We're building out the team. So it's this. It's. It's a bit of a strange period because everyone knows about the election, everyone knows about January 1st, and then you have these two months in between. And so typically in these two months, it's a lot of kind of pomp and pageantry.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Zoran Mamdani]

We want to get ahead of January 1st. We want to make the decisions and the appointments in advance of January 1st. And what this also means is we want to build that team.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay.

[Zoran Mamdani]

So so far, we have made a few decisions of first deputy mayor, you know, chief of staff, police commissioner, and then in the next few weeks, we have to start filling out additional top positions. What.

[Trevor Noah]

What do you. What do you base that on when you. When you're picking that? And the reason I ask this is because you're such a unique candidate. Right. So if you had come through the. The regular pipeline of, oh, establishment. Establishment, I almost feel like it would have been pre picked for you in a weird way.

[Zoran Mamdani]

It would have been who you knew.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah. Because we always see that happen. Right. It's like when Hillary Clinton was running, then you'd be like, the person she's gonna pick is the person who used to be the person who used to be the person. You're like, oh, it's all like the same team. And then you just shift around who's where. You get what I'm saying. Yours is different, though. So how do you pick and where do you pick?

[Zoran Mamdani]

I think it's on an assessment of the work that people have done. And it's quite liberating, actually, to come into this position and not have to owe favors, you know, not be, like, unburdened. You. You're just actually making decisions based on, do you think this person can do the job? How can they show you that they've already done the job? And you're looking for this combination of a fluency.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Zoran Mamdani]

With what it looks like to work within government and an imagination that is unburdened by the difficulties of working within that government.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay, right.

[Zoran Mamdani]

So sometimes you would think that the more time you spend in government, the less ambitious you become about what you can do within.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, yeah.

[Zoran Mamdani]

But One of the reasons that I hired Dean Fulahan to be my first deputy mayor, he had served 47 years in working in government at the city and the state level. Is the first time we sat down for Adhanichai at Qahwa House. He told me about how he tried the drink. Like, the drink.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay.

[Zoran Mamdani]

You ever had a chance.

[Trevor Noah]

Just making sure, Ryan, have I had it? I'm assuming I've had variations of it. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. The closest.

[Dave]

India.

[Trevor Noah]

The closest. Yeah.

[Dave]

But you weren't with me drinking.

[Trevor Noah]

He monitors. He monitors.

[Eugene]

You owe.

[Trevor Noah]

I apologize.

[Zoran Mamdani]

I accept shop.

[Trevor Noah]

But, yes, I've had chop. Yes. So. So, yeah. So you were sitting down, having chai.

[Zoran Mamdani]

And he talked about how he transformed the culture of the Office of Management and Budget from a culture of no to a culture of how. And to me, that is an example of what we're trying to do with government. Because when you'll say you have an ambitious policy proposal, you want to deliver universal childcare, you want to make buses fast and free, there will be so many people you can who can tell you it's impossible to do that.

[Trevor Noah]

Right?

[Zoran Mamdani]

And the people you're actually looking for are not the ones who tell you it's easy. They're the ones who tell you it's difficult. And here's how they're actually going to do it.

[Trevor Noah]

So you're interviewing people for the job, or you're picking people for the job, and you're trying to find a balance between the people who've shown that they can do it. But then I'm assuming you're also interviewing people who, like you, are new to a position, because that's. That's the weird paradox, right? You've never been mayor of New York, and now you are going to be mayor of New York. So how do you then judge a person who's never done the job? Like, what are you looking for in those people where you go, hey, you haven't done this, but I think you can vision.

[Zoran Mamdani]

You're looking to hear from them about how they would actually transform the position that you're asking them about. There's a real temptation, especially when you're looking at a job of this scale and you're looking at, you know, we're talking about positions that oversee agencies of tens of thousands of people. There's a temptation to say, I'm just going to keep the trains running on time, but that's not enough. That's not enough in a city that's the most expensive in the United States of America. It's not enough in a city where one in four people live in poverty. You have to both be able to continue to operate things as they are and push them forward to delivering the city we deserve.

[Trevor Noah]

Why do you think, or do you think? Because, I mean, I do. So I don't want to bias you, but, like, it feels like, particularly in America and maybe other parts of the world, it feels like conservatives have been pretty good at imagining and hoping. And then liberals or progressives or however people wanna, you know, left side of the spectrum have sort of adopted this idea of like, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, let's just keep it working well. And you can't really change much. You can't. Like, do you know how many interviews of yours I've watched where people say, zoran, now, I agree with your politics. I love what you're saying, but I just don't know that we can do it. I just don't think you'll be able to get it done. I just don't. But not once have I seen somebody interviewing, like Trump, for instance, on a right wing platform go like, ah, dawg, I don't know about that wall. I don't know, man. That's a big ass wall. How are you gonna do it? Do you get what I'm saying?

[Zoran Mamdani]

I do. I think it's. You have people. It seems like Republicans have a limitless imagination.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Zoran Mamdani]

And as Democrats, we're constructing an ever lowering ceiling of possibility. It's. It's right here.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Zoran Mamdani]

You know, and we are robbing ourselves of ambition and imagination, and we're telling people that their choice is between settling or sacrifice. And neither of these are enough. You have to have an affirmative vision of how life can be better than this, because this life already is suffocating people.

[Trevor Noah]

I sometimes think it's because of the decline of religion on the left.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Hmm.

[Eugene]

Tell us more.

[Trevor Noah]

I could pro.

[Dave]

I.

[Trevor Noah]

Look, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. And you know, you will tell me.

[Eugene]

Wait, if there's one thing I will tell you, hello.

[Dave]

Is when I'm wrong, am I allowed to speak?

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, I like that you say that into a microphone as if the microphone wasn't placed there for the possibility that you may speak.

[Dave]

Am I allowed to speak?

[Eugene]

You literally look.

[Trevor Noah]

You know what you look like right now? You look like somebody at those, like, town halls where they came from the crowd and then they don't know how anything works or echekas.

[Eugene]

He's about to make an announcement.

[Trevor Noah]

But let me say this point and Then yes, let me say this. So, so, so this is.

[Dave]

Before you say this point though, okay? Did you steal this point from me?

[Trevor Noah]

There's, there's a distinct possibility.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Okay.

[Dave]

As friends. Okay, no, no, continue, continue as friends.

[Trevor Noah]

I mean, I don't know how you are with your friends, but if my friend has a great idea, it's mine. It becomes a part of my, my thinking.

[Eugene]

This, this point might have come by way of a friendship. Tapa way.

[Trevor Noah]

That's exactly what it is.

[Eugene]

And when it was open, no one was taking responsibility for what's in there.

[Trevor Noah]

Preach, Eugene, preach. Tell people about these relationship Tupperwares, huh? Instead of focusing on where the Tupperware ends up, you should focus on the fact that your friend took the meal that was inside the Tupperware, enjoyed it and enjoyed it and shared it, but.

[Eugene]

He returned it with another meal inside.

[Trevor Noah]

That's true. That's true. Many of the ideas that you have came from me.

[Eugene]

And some of that.

[Dave]

Which idea of yours did I. No.

[Trevor Noah]

So the owner of the idea.

[Dave]

To me.

[Trevor Noah]

The owner of the idea is not important. I think good ideas should live beyond people. But if you think about religion and how in most parts of the world religion is declining, but it's declining in areas where people are particularly left leaning or progressive or. You know what I mean? You see it.

[Eugene]

I don't think religion is declining. I think faith is declining.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, but the two have been combined for a long time. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And one of the things that that like faith requires of you is the ability to believe that this current state that you are in is not the end. There is a possibility that something can be greater. And even though you cannot see it, you believe that it can happen. It requires literally everything that you just said. Do you know what I mean?

[Zoran Mamdani]

Yeah. And I think that I've found over the course of the campaign that it's often in houses of worship where New Yorkers still have that trust, really still have that faith. And it's by and large lost when it comes to politics. You know, I mean, there are so many people who look at politics as irrelevant to their material struggles on a day to day basis. And part of that is because of their own experiences of believing in politicians who have not delivered and thinking that the rational decision is to take as much space as you can.

[Trevor Noah]

How do you, how do you find. Just real quick, I just want to know, like, like this is a difficult one, like with delivery. How do you think the public should judge a politician's delivery or lack thereof? Because some Things that people set out to do won't be achieved because that's how life is. You aim for something and you fail. Right. And then some are because of regulation or kickbacks or, you know, corporations or lobbyists or. So one part of it is because of like a mud and a sludge, and the other one is because just life is like that. So how. How would you like people to judge you when you're in the mayorship and go, all right, Zoran, this thing you did achieve. So that's one side. But for the things that you. You didn't like, how would you want people to judge your. Your failures, which are inevitable in anything that people do?

[Zoran Mamdani]

We. We built a campaign around three policy commitments.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Freezing the rent for rent. Stabilized tenants. Making the slowest buses in America fast and free. Delivering universal child care. We have to deliver these things.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay. And that's non negotiable to me.

[Zoran Mamdani]

I think it's every day I'm going to wake up pushing these three things forward. And there's no question there are. This is incredibly difficult work. There are things you will try and you will fail. I think what, what frustrates so many is that there are so many things where it looks like someone is not even trying.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Zoran Mamdani]

They are just admitting defeat from the beginning. You know, they are describing something as unrealistic or impossible. Madiba said it always seems impossible until it's done.

[Trevor Noah]

Nelson Mandela, for those who don't know.

[Dave]

Can I ask a question?

[Trevor Noah]

You're gonna say Nelson Mandela took that from you as well.

[Dave]

I know how you work. I know the. That you want to say.

[Trevor Noah]

He's gonna be like, where did he get that idea?

[Dave]

Where did he get that idea? Who was in prison with him?

[Trevor Noah]

Mr. Oh, I'm the only person with ideas. Please share some with us.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Dave, before you say something, I'd like.

[Eugene]

To say it probably wasn't his idea. Cause he's been quiet. When you started speaking, he didn't say anything.

[Dave]

The title was my idea. You know when you get those movies that have the same title, but it's a different movie. The title was my idea.

[Trevor Noah]

But like the one where the.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Oh, no, never mind.

[Dave]

Okay, so now, Mayor Elect Mamdani, do you know your powers? You know, like, because you run for mayor, but at some point there's like, you have powers. Certain powers. Do you know them all? Is. Do they give you, like a book? These are your actual powers.

[Zoran Mamdani]

They. They don't give you a book.

[Dave]

Do you. No, I'm saying. You know what I mean?

[Zoran Mamdani]

Like No, I. I do. I have. I have definitely an awareness of. Of what power this jobs comes with. I'll give you an example on the three policies I was speaking of. The first one, freezing the rent for rent stabilized tenants. City of eight and a half million people, about two and a half million live in housing called rent stabilized house. Okay, right.

[Trevor Noah]

And what does that mean? Just because I see people conflate, stabilized.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Versus rent control is a very small proportion.

[Trevor Noah]

What is rent stabilized? What does that mean?

[Zoran Mamdani]

Rent stabilized basically applies to half of all tenants in New York City.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay.

[Zoran Mamdani]

And it means that their rent, whether it will increase or stay the same, is determined by a board called the Rent Guidelines Board.

[Mint Mobile Ad Voice]

Okay.

[Zoran Mamdani]

The board is composed of nine appointees, all of whom are appointed by the mayor.

[Trevor Noah]

Yes.

[Zoran Mamdani]

So we have seen this board freeze the rent in the past. We have seen this board raise the rent like it has under Eric Adams, more than 12%. So when I talk about freezing the rent, I'm talking about this board composed of mayoral appointees finally giving tenants the relief that they deserve. Okay?

[Dave]

So that's. Sorry. Just to clear that up. So that is like, you know, you know the question. Because sometimes when it comes to politics, people will be like, you know, you vote the person in, then later on it's like, no, technically, I didn't have that power. You know, you know, that kind of thing.

[Zoran Mamdani]

No. People try to obfuscate what their responsibility is. I think the second and the third points that I brought up of making buses fast and free, delivering universal childcare, these are things that have to be done in partnership with Albany state government. Right. The reason that it was at a core part of my campaign, though, is any mayor with an agenda that is as ambitious as the crisis in front of them will require state partnership, okay? Because the city is effectively a creature of the state, especially after the 1970s fiscal crisis. So one of the most impressive achievements in city politics in the last few decades was the creation of universal Pre K. That was done by the previous mayor, who, Mayor de Blasio, who ran on that as part of his agenda, needed Albany to get it done. There were all these articles written about how it was unrealistic. He went up against a governor who was very much opposed to it, and he won the funding for that because of the coalition that he built.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay.

[Zoran Mamdani]

And so my point here is that there are some things you can do directly yourself. There are other things you will have to build the coalition around you to do, but all of these things have to be part and parcel of it because I can tell you, to my mind, one of the most frustrating things you can tell a New Yorker when they call your district office is, oh, that's not. That's not actually my jurisdiction. Yeah, you should call this person or you should call at that level. Being the mayor of this city comes with immense power. Not to say total power at all, but immense power to at least start an agenda and then start to deliver that agenda when you build the coalition you need. That's where I see the possibility in these three things.

[Trevor Noah]

So.

[Dave]

Okay, great. This is great.

[Trevor Noah]

Wait. You know, when you say the thing about the Book of Power, it makes me think of, like, I think you and I actually had this conversation. We talked about how.

[Dave]

Mostly me giving ideas.

[Trevor Noah]

We talked about how, again, I don't care where good ideas come from. No, you know, my idea is people shouldn't worry about their egos.

[Dave]

But.

[Trevor Noah]

No, but we had this conversation about. We talked about. We're talking about Trump, and we literally. We joked and we said, it feels like Trump was the first person to read that book. Do you know what I mean? Because there's so many things. No, because there's so many things where Trump is doing it. And then people are like, can a president do that? And then it's like, oh, yeah, he can. And you're like, wait, wait, wait, wait. We didn't know that you could do all of these things. And I think that's sort of what the question is.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Yeah, And I think it's. Look, we have this transition. We have four incredible co chairs. One of them is Lina Khan and Lina Khan.

[Trevor Noah]

Can we get Lina Khan on the show? By the way, she's one of my favorite human beings.

[Dave]

No.

[Trevor Noah]

Can I tell you. We'll have a separate conversation about this. I'll tell you why I take away from our time. Yes, but it's. But it'll add time value. It'll add value. No, I'll tell you why. Lena Khan, like, you seen, like, on a wall of, like, superheroes, the way I hate monopolies. Mergers, acquisitions. And you know this as my friends.

[Eugene]

Orlando Pirates.

[Trevor Noah]

I don't think that counts.

[Zoran Mamdani]

What about the Orlando Pirates?

[Trevor Noah]

But thank you for punching things.

[Eugene]

He hates.

[Trevor Noah]

I can't tell. What the hell.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Merger, acquisitions, Kaiser Chiefs.

[Dave]

Oh, man.

[Zoran Mamdani]

What are we doing?

[Dave]

Broke my brain. Like, Orlando Pirates.

[Trevor Noah]

Cortez with no Russian.

[Dave]

No.

[Trevor Noah]

Anyway, she's. I'll tell you, she's a hero because I. I think she taps and I think that's maybe why you picked a. Part of it is she taps into the Understanding that not everything is happening on the surface the way you think it is. And then you go like, why did that happen? Why did that happen? And she's like, oh, let me show you where it started. Like, she's at the origin story of a lot of these things.

[Zoran Mamdani]

And she spoke about that when she first got to her job. She felt like she was experiencing the great forgetting where she got there. And it felt as if so many people working in government had forgotten the tools they had at their disposal.

[Trevor Noah]

You see, that's what I'm.

[Eugene]

Nailed it.

[Zoran Mamdani]

And I think we. It's, it's. There is a need for imagination, for the new kinds of policies and proposals you put forward, and also an ambition to use your existing set of tools.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Zoran Mamdani]

To actually transform people's lives.

[Trevor Noah]

Don't go anywhere because we got more what now? After this.

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[Trevor Noah]

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[Trevor Noah]

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[Zoran Mamdani]

Just.

[Trevor Noah]

Sorry.

[Dave]

Sorry.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Really?

[Dave]

This is. Now he's not sorry. Okay, okay. One more question now just to wrap up the powers thing. Do we all agree as New Yorkers that ambulances are too loud? Oh, I feel like this has turned. This has literally turned into those.

[Trevor Noah]

It really has turned into a town hall.

[Dave]

No, I'm just.

[Trevor Noah]

No, your posture. Can I tell you, I always look at. When I watch town halls and people come up and do this thing, I'm always like, who are these people? I didn't know I'm friends with one of them. Like the posture, the everything. Just like. Can we all agree that ambulances are too loud also?

[Zoran Mamdani]

And speaking of powers.

[Dave]

Yes, exactly. Here's my pet issue. But yes, we're talking about mergers and accidents.

[Eugene]

I like how Dave gave himself citizenship as citizens.

[Dave]

Yeah, yeah, you can. Wait, wait, wait. Dave, Dave, wait.

[Trevor Noah]

No, but actually, I. I do like this question because I think you know why, as I get it. Macro versus micro. I think these are like the nice things to try and understand.

[Dave]

I. I'll.

[Trevor Noah]

I'll interpret for you.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Yes.

[Dave]

So now one, we all agree that ambulances are too loud.

[Trevor Noah]

Way too loud in New York. Way too loud.

[Zoran Mamdani]

I agree.

[Dave]

They're too loud.

[Trevor Noah]

They're way too loud.

[Dave]

One ambulance and the entire Manhattan knows that you know, that you don't even.

[Eugene]

Know about to lose their lives.

[Zoran Mamdani]

You don't know.

[Trevor Noah]

You don't even know. Is that too much of an inconvenience for you? No. Eugene tell you? No, let me explain. Eugene, wait. Let me explain. Let me explain. This is what Dave means, really. You don't even know where it's coming from. It's pointless. At some point, it knows where it's going.

[Eugene]

That's the most important.

[Trevor Noah]

Nobody knows where it's coming. But anyway, finish asking it.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Cool.

[Dave]

So now would you say that in some way or form the citizens of New York, both documented and documented. I'm not even joking because you're trying to expose me, but.

[Trevor Noah]

Trying.

[Dave]

But would you say that it is that you pledge to have a. Like some sort of database. Not database, but link so that we can see what's inside the ambulance? Oh, because I never.

[Zoran Mamdani]

I never knew where the next sentence.

[Dave]

Was going or where the next. Welcome to Dave. Welcome to Dave. Just summed up Dave. If there was a review of Dave. So if it's too loud, you want.

[Zoran Mamdani]

To know what's happening inside?

[Dave]

Can I tell you? No.

[Trevor Noah]

Can I tell you?

[Eugene]

You want to know?

[Zoran Mamdani]

I think what he wants to know.

[Eugene]

Is, is it justified being loud?

[Dave]

Yes.

[Eugene]

Has the person stubbed their toe.

[Dave]

Yes.

[Eugene]

Or is this person in cardiac arrest?

[Trevor Noah]

No. But more importantly, are you asking for.

[Dave]

You decrease the volume. Do you know what I mean? If not, everybody is having an emergency the way these ambulances tell us, that's not possible. So do you regret being mayor yet? I'm saying this is your life, you.

[Trevor Noah]

Know, this is your life.

[Dave]

In your book of powers, you're gonna.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Be having my life anyway.

[Dave]

You're gonna be having dinner. You're gonna be having dinner.

[Trevor Noah]

And this guy's coming up.

[Dave]

I don't know too many guys like this. Anyway, now I'm the mayor. I still know this guy. Because you have these. He has these big ideas. That's what I'm saying. In your book, I'm sure you can say that. And most people will agree. Most people will. No, no, no. Because we all agree at some point we're going to need an ambulance. Small.

[Trevor Noah]

Small injury. Small.

[Dave]

Small siren, Small siren, big injury, big siren.

[Trevor Noah]

No. Now, on a real, though, can you, like, are those the kinds of things that you actually can do unilaterally or do you need to, like, is there a board? Is there.

[Zoran Mamdani]

No, I think on this question.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, yeah. I mean it. I mean, I know it sounds crazy.

[Zoran Mamdani]

No idea.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay. Okay. What about. What about.

[Dave]

So you don't know what's in the book. I am not going to sit here, so you don't know what's in the book, and pretend that I even know the process by which you would consider trading volume for severity of the. No, you don't know what's in the book. That's the thing. Because it could.

[Trevor Noah]

Thank you, sir. Thank you, sir.

[Dave]

It could be in the book.

[Trevor Noah]

Thank you for your time, sir. Thank you.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Thank you.

[Trevor Noah]

As you can see. So Dave definitely lives in New York and experiences. This is actually what I love about it is, like, as you're building up in this transition and you're getting ready for these things, how do you find. So you have these three. Three big policies that you've run on. You've gone rent. We are aiming to freeze the rent, especially where we can immediately and then work on helping other people. The second thing you're going with is the buses. They need to be faster, they need to be free. And the third thing you're working on is the child.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Number four is Dave.

[Trevor Noah]

Number four is Dave.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Right.

[Trevor Noah]

So, I mean, you've made it.

[Dave]

You've made it.

[Trevor Noah]

You've made it. You've made it.

[Dave]

At this point.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Yeah, it's the only way.

[Dave]

So my.

[Trevor Noah]

My Question is, when you're in that, is there, is there a system for you as mayor to go, these things are small but annoying, and they actually make a difference in people's lives. Like, like this, the sound of sirens, or for instance, or like, how do you, how do you find those balances?

[Zoran Mamdani]

I think this is. It's. It's not just that government has often said a crisis is too big, we cannot tackle it. It's also that government has said this issue is too small, it's not worth our time. And as much, as much as we laugh, issues of this scale, whether it be the sound of something or the noise of something, or these two New Yorkers are examples of a city that's not working for them. Yes, it is, actually, whatever it may be. And you need to be able to prove that your city government takes it seriously. Because wherever you are losing people's faith, losing people's trust, that's also where you're losing their faith and trust in an ambitious agenda. You know, I was at a town hall with an incoming city council member, his name is Ty, at Rochdale Village in southeast Queens, and an older woman got up and she had a question for me. She said, will you honor a promise that was made to be multiple mayoral administrations ago? And I was like, what is this promise going to be? And she said, they promised to put a speed bump at this corner, and it hadn't been done for more than a decade. And I was thinking to myself, how could I ask her to believe in the possibility of delivering universal childcare if the same government couldn't even get her.

[Trevor Noah]

A speed bump that they had promised.

[Zoran Mamdani]

That they had promised more than a decade ago? Because when you betray that promise, you are telling that New Yorker that they should not look to city government as something or someone that could deliver on their needs. And they start to turn away. And then when you ask ourselves, why aren't more people voting? Why aren't more people invested? Why aren't people engaged? A lot of it is based on experiences like this where the best that they can hope for from their city government is neglect or ignorance. And we have to win people back through the power of example. You can't finger wag your way to getting someone invested in the politics of their own city. You have to prove it to them.

[Dave]

Them.

[Zoran Mamdani]

You have to prove that you were right to believe. And here we are actually delivering it. I don't know if I can prove it to you, Dave, but can I.

[Trevor Noah]

Can I say, can I say, although I joined the mob in Laughing at you. I will say, though, this is an issue that I fully stand.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Which part of the issue?

[Trevor Noah]

No, no, the.

[Eugene]

The ambulances or silence?

[Trevor Noah]

I'll tell you why. No, I'll tell you why. It's. It's an idea that I've had that maybe I got from you. And this idea has always been. This idea has always been. There's a disconnect in politics and in the management of cities, countries, states, et cetera, where there are the things that will dramatically change your life, that are actual things that you need to happen. And then there are things that make you think your life is getting better or getting worse, but they aren't actually. And it's a strange thing that people have in society. You know what I mean? Some things can make people feel safer. Some things actually make you safer. Some things can make you feel like a city's functioning. Some things actually make it function. And it's. I'm always intrigued.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Perception and reality.

[Trevor Noah]

I'm always intrigued around, like, how a politician manages that. When you get into that position, how do you manage that perception? So sirens is a good one. When you live in a city where you constantly hear sirens, it seems like something's always going wrong. Recently when I traveled to London, Amsterdam, all these, I was. I was shocked at how quiet it was. But it took me a while to realize something was like missing. And then you're like, wait, it's quiet. And the quiet just makes you feel.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Like, where's Dave.

[Trevor Noah]

Man? Can I tell you something? Can I tell you something?

[Dave]

Your timing is impeccable.

[Trevor Noah]

This Uganda on Uganda violence.

[Dave]

I'm here for it. I'm here for it.

[Trevor Noah]

All I'm waiting for Zoran to turn and do is look at you and.

[Dave]

Be like, why are you Dave? Why are you Dave?

[Trevor Noah]

Are you not Dave? Okay, so help me. Help me understand why you chose the three.

[Dave]

The.

[Trevor Noah]

The freezing, the rent that I mean, I hope is self explanatory to everybody. The cost of living is. It's unsustainable In New York and in many places in the world, if people cannot afford to live, then they don't even want to be part of that society. The buses help me understand why. Faster buses and free buses.

[Zoran Mamdani]

So these are the slowest buses in America.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay. That's not like. What do you mean by that? Like the speed that they go, right?

[Zoran Mamdani]

We're talking about an average speed in certain parts of Manhattan, around five miles an hour.

[Trevor Noah]

There's like. That's walking.

[Zoran Mamdani]

You can. You can beat running.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Zoran Mamdani]

And what we See is that more than a million New Yorkers ride the bus.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay.

[Zoran Mamdani]

It costs $2.90. That is out of reach for one in five New Yorkers. Wow. So when you make the bus free, you not only provide economic relief where you ensure that it's universally accessible, you also actually make it safer. We did this at the state legislature. I've been a state assembly member for a few years.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Zoran Mamdani]

And I worked with Mike Giannaris, a state senator. We made five bus routes free in New York City. When we made those bus routes free after a year, assaults on bus drivers dropped by 38.9% on the bus drivers, because unlike the train, the act of fare collection on the bus happens on the bus.

[Trevor Noah]

It's there.

[Zoran Mamdani]

And bus drivers and unions have shared anecdotally that about 50% of assaults happen around the farebox. So when you eliminate the farebox, you make for a safer experience for the bus driver, for everyone on the bus. And what's fascinating, back to the point you were just making about perception and reality, is when they made a few bus routes free in Boston under Mayor wu's leadership, they found that even more than the safety that was provided is that people felt safer to even higher degree than that.

[Eugene]

Right.

[Zoran Mamdani]

We saw this as well in Kansas City to varying extents in different parts of the country. And it has the economic benefits, has the public safety benefits, and even has benefits of bringing people who would otherwise be driving their car or taking a taxi and getting them on the bus. More than 10% of the new riders on these five bus routes were otherwise going to use private.

[Trevor Noah]

So it becomes economically viable for them.

[Zoran Mamdani]

And I think what it comes back to is that if you pair the making of the bus free, which then also enables you to use any door to board, you don't have to wait behind anyone who's looking for their Metro card or used to be looking for their coins. You can just board and exit. You speed up the time at each bus stop. In Boston, you cut the dwell time by 23%. So there's a speed that's incorporated in this. And then the other part of this is that the city owns its own streets. The city can speed up a bus through the infrastructure it chooses to build or not to build.

[Trevor Noah]

Got it.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Bus lanes, busways, bus rapid transit. It's a political choice that that bus is traveling at five miles an hour. You can make that bus be the most obvious way to get around the city right now. So often New Yorkers are taking the bus because they have no other option we want it to be such that it is the option you choose. So that's what it comes back to. And the other part of this is this is disproportionately hurting working class New Yorkers.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Because a bus rider, the average salary of a bus rider is around $30,000 a year.

[Dave]

Right.

[Zoran Mamdani]

We are talking about the most working class New Yorkers who are dealing with some of the most substandard public transit. And it's a political choice.

[Trevor Noah]

It feels like New York has, like many cities in the world, fallen into the trap of fixing what needs to be fixed for the wealthy and then sort of ignoring or pushing aside the problems that affect the poor.

[Zoran Mamdani]

I mean, I think about, I think about when you fly. Yeah. We have made it such a difficult experience to go through TSA that there's now a financial incentive to sign up for a separate program that can move you through it quicker.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Zoran Mamdani]

I mean, we have monetized the dysfunction of flying.

[Trevor Noah]

Do you think that's by design, though?

[Zoran Mamdani]

I'm gonna leave that to you and Dave, man.

[Eugene]

Yeah. Convenience is up for sale.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Absolutely.

[Eugene]

I mean, convenience has been up for sale for that long.

[Zoran Mamdani]

But it's absurd to me that, that you should have to pay for the experience that you should already be getting. You were already paid. This is.

[Dave]

Anyway, this is a, this is a real question.

[Trevor Noah]

I thought you said normal questions.

[Dave]

No, no. Oh, on that topic. Oh, on that topic, there's a real, a real question on the buses. How come you didn't go with like, the people who were paying can.

[Trevor Noah]

Who.

[Dave]

You know, because some people not don't mind paying, but they like, they can pay in a way to keep the revenue coming in. And then people who can't pay.

[Zoran Mamdani]

This is a good question.

[Dave]

Can't pay. Then they have a way of like.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Okay, so this, this is in effect a question about universal approach versus means tested. Means tested would say if you make a certain income or less, then you should be eligible for a reduction in your fare or the elimination of your fare. There already exists a program in New York City called Fair Fares where if you make a certain amount of money or less, you'll get a reduced fare. The mta, by last estimate, when they were testifying at the state, they said about 40% of eligible new Yorkers are enrolled. The question was asked to them, what would success look like? They said 50%. So success looks like leaving 50% of your eligible population out of your program. And so whenever you create a means tested program, you are comfortable to some level with saying goodbye to people who would be eligible for it. Because, you know, the hurdles of creating a bureaucratic system of proving eligibility, of applying, of receiving, and then of using versus if you make something free at point of use, you capture the entirety of everyone you're looking to serve. And this is the difference, is that the safety of that bus, the efficacy of how it is moving, the question of the doors, all of this is tied to the elimination of fare at once. And when we made those five bus routes free, we found the most significant increase in riders was among New Yorkers making $28,000 a year or less. They're already eligible for fairfares, but less than 20% of them were enrolled in that program. So that, to me, is, if you are serious about reaching everyone, then here's how you do it.

[Trevor Noah]

You know what it's similar to. Funny enough, it's similar to what I feel like they're doing with voting in America. Right? They are systematically making it harder and harder for people to vote, but basing it like the premise is, no, no, no, it's super easy to vote. All you have to do is all you have to do is all you have to do is all you have to do is all you have to do. You know what I mean? It's like, get this id. Oh, but this new type of ID needs this type of identification. And then it's like, well, which ones do you accept? Oh, your gun one. Oh, we take the gun one. NRA will work. Oh, but this one doesn't work. And this one. Do you know what I mean?

[Zoran Mamdani]

It should be.

[Trevor Noah]

And then to your point. Yeah, and more importantly, it's the trick of saying it's free, you free to enter, but then the process of coming in is not really free. Do you know what I mean?

[Eugene]

Yeah, yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

It's like the trick of the interns. Like, to be an intern, you've got to be a pretty rich kid. I work for free. Yeah, but do you know how much you have to earn to work for free? And I feel like that's. That's. That's what you're tapping into with the. With the childcare thing. Is that. Is that a similar. No, wait, wait, wait. But there's a similar principle, people. Is like with the child care thing, what do you think? I mean, it seems obvious. Some people would go, and we've seen discussions around this, you know, privatization and stuff. They'd be like, oh, the private sector should be dealing with this. Why is the government getting involved in childcare? Shouldn't just, you know, Companies provide childcare. Why do you think it's important for the state to step in, for the, for the city to step in?

[Zoran Mamdani]

Well, look, when the city and the state doesn't step in, companies have to, to put forward childcare benefits, childcare services. Why should that be a company's job? You are seeing companies having to provide a service that should be provided by the city and the state. I mean, quite literally, you have companies that have childcare on site. You have companies that are giving annual stipends for, you know, paying towards childcare. The point of this is that if we do not treat this as the social crisis that it is, it's, we are going to make, we're going to pass this cost on. And this is actually a cost that we should be bearing at a city and a state level. And the average cost of childcare in New York City for one child is $22,500.

[Trevor Noah]

But that's close to what you just said. The earning, the average earning was for. I mean, that's, that's insane.

[Zoran Mamdani]

It is cheaper to send that same child 18 years later to the City University of New York than it is to find childcare for them. That's how expensive it is. And, and we often talk about delivering universal childcare in the language of how much it will cost and how difficult it will be, as if it doesn't already cost this city and state an immense amount today in 2022, we lost $23 billion in economic activity because of the absence of universal childcare.

[Trevor Noah]

Explain how.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Because you had people leaving this city, leaving this state after housing, the number one thing driving people out of the city, child care. They are going anywhere they can find child care for cheaper. And it's not just people whose kids they can't get child care for. It's also child care workers who cannot live off of the average salary at a home based setting of $10 an hour.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Zoran Mamdani]

People cannot live off of that. And we keep asking ourselves why, you know, why is it so hard to raise a family in the city? It's like, look at the cost.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Zoran Mamdani]

I was sitting on the M57, the slowest bus in Manhattan a few months ago and a city worker was seated behind me. She started speaking to me about how she had two kids. The only reason she could make it work here was because her 84 year old grandmother would take care of those kids every single day.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Zoran Mamdani]

And she told me that when her 84 year old grandmother has to go to the doctor or she feels sick, the only option this mother has is that she has to take a sick day from work because she can't afford childcare. We are pushing people out of the city and frankly, people are feeling it when they're making 40k a year, they're feeling it. When they're making 100k, they're feeling it 200k. Because $22,500 is an immense amount of money after tax. And we could be providing.

[Dave]

This question, this is a real question. Real question. Based on we're going to run out of time. This is your last question.

[Trevor Noah]

Choose your last question.

[Dave]

Well, yes, based on childcare, what is this going to look like practically? Do you know what I mean? What does it mean?

[Trevor Noah]

Zoran's going to come look after your child.

[Dave]

No, man, come on. You see, you are now wasting my time. What is it?

[Trevor Noah]

There's never a waste of time when a joke is in. Can we all agree?

[Eugene]

Never.

[Trevor Noah]

Thank you.

[Eugene]

Never. Never.

[Trevor Noah]

Jokes are never a waste of time.

[Eugene]

In fact, never.

[Dave]

Anyway, do you know what is this? What is it?

[Trevor Noah]

That's a great question, by the way.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Practically, you will see a system that is building on the infrastructure we already have. And what that means is it's going to be something built out that includes both center based care care and home based care. Right? There are many New Yorkers who feel more comfortable sending their child to a neighbor who is providing childcare for a few children on that block. There are other New Yorkers who prefer sending their child to a child care center. And we can look at Universal Pre K, which we were talking about earlier, as a model for both how it took an immense cost burden off of the backs of working families, but also how it stood up an entire infrastructure. Because this is the thing that's also missing in so much of city government is a sense of urgency, of actually being able to scale something up. And that to me, the commitment we've made delivering childcare for New yorkers from ages 5 down to 6 weeks of age. And so what we have right now is we have Universal Pre k. We have 3k in New York City, but it is broken. The first order of business is to fix 3k. And then we look at 2k, we look at 1k. We look at delivering childcare for children right now that if their parents don't have the money or they don't have a family member, we see that those parents often leave. I mean, 80% of New Yorkers with children under five cannot afford childcare in this city.

[Eugene]

80%.

[Zoran Mamdani]

80%.

[Trevor Noah]

I find myself wondering about labels A lot. And how they limit our ability to think. You know, because your name synonymous. Socialist. And then people who are trying to be disparaging communist. But you see it a lot. Oh, this social. He's trying to turn America into. This guy doesn't like. And yet every time I hear you speak, you talk about how much money the thing will generate for businesses, for people themselves, for. Do you. When you think of how people process the label of socialism or the idea behind it, do you think they themselves have an understanding of what it actually means versus what they've been told it means? Do you get what I'm saying?

[Zoran Mamdani]

Yeah, I think as a. As a Muslim socialist, I'm familiar with bad PR, good old MS, you know, those damn MS's. It's. It's a long journey to explain.

[Dave]

But.

[Zoran Mamdani]

I think, you know, many people have caricatures in their head as to what it means. Yeah. I often turn to Dr. King to describe socialism. He said, call it democracy or call it democratic socialism. There must be a better distribution of wealth for all of God's children in this country. It comes back to dignity. It comes back to ensuring that whatever you need to live a dignified life that you have, that you should not be priced out of a necessity. We're not talking about want or like, we're talking about need. You should not be priced out of being able to have a home to call your own, of being able to send your kid to school, being able to ride the bus. And I've found actually that when you're speaking to New Yorkers one to one, they've actually had far fewer questions of how I describe my politics and far more of does my politics include them? Are their struggles part of my focus? And I found that there are many people who might describe themselves in a different way, but when I speak about what this would mean for New York City, they start to see themselves in that vision. And that's. I think the key of this is how is this a politics that actually reflects the struggles of working people?

[Trevor Noah]

Do you think your politics and your campaign connected with people because you actually connected with people?

[Zoran Mamdani]

I think a lot of it also had to do with the incredible team I had around me.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Zoran Mamdani]

To be honest, someone was asking me the other day about people trying to make videos the way that we made videos. And I was saying that part of it is it misunderstands that it's not as much who's in front of the camera. It's also who's behind the camera. You can see a distinct moment in the campaign when I stopped making the videos, it's the moment when the campaign became legitimate.

[Trevor Noah]

It. Right, right.

[Dave]

And.

[Zoran Mamdani]

And I think that, that, that losing sight of the collective and thinking it's all about the individual, it means you lose sight of how this campaign was built.

[Trevor Noah]

All right, your team is telling us we got to wrap up.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Do you promise even talk about Mzanzi?

[Trevor Noah]

That. That's why I'm saying, do you promise to come back? Make. Let. Give. Give me one. That's the only promise I want. Dave wants ambulances.

[Zoran Mamdani]

I promise to come back.

[Trevor Noah]

You promise to come back. You don't have to, by the way. You can say no, and then I don't. Look, then I don't have the promise.

[Zoran Mamdani]

This is my only way.

[Trevor Noah]

No, no. Then I don't have the promise, and I don't mind.

[Zoran Mamdani]

I give the promise.

[Trevor Noah]

All right, then. Because I, I, I'll take three minutes and then I'll let you go.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Here's a few things that I wanted to talk about.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, go away.

[Zoran Mamdani]

I want to talk about Cape Town.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, they really have to go. Like, right now. Your team is like, right. What did you want to talk about? Cape Town.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Cape Town and Caspar Nyovest.

[Trevor Noah]

Open the door and come get him. Casper. Nyovest.

[Zoran Mamdani]

I wanted to talk about Cuesta.

[Trevor Noah]

Wow, this guy's missing. This guy's deep in South Africa.

[Zoran Mamdani]

I want to talk about Ricky Rick.

[Trevor Noah]

This guy.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Rest in peace. To Ricky Rick, man. Boss Zonke. Yeah, I love that song. I want to figure out how we can get major league DJs on Spotify. You know, I have listened to Slicer Sotsi on YouTube.

[Trevor Noah]

This guy. We're gonna, we're gonna do a trilogy. This was just the policy stuff. Part two, we're gonna do Zoron's life stuff.

[Eugene]

Also, we're having the elections of mayor of Joburg next year.

[Trevor Noah]

Part three, Just South Africa, if you are available. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for. Thanks for taking him. It'll be so. It'd be so funny if you've just got, like, a dinner reservation. That would be so blazing. No, no, no, I would. I'm just saying it would be funny. Anything for a joke. I don't care if you take him, if this ends in a joke. If Zoran's like, I gotta go, I gotta go, go. And then he gets in, like, for two.

[Dave]

Table for two, please.

[Zoran Mamdani]

And then he gets in, me and Shabalala.

[Trevor Noah]

Zoran Mamdani. Thank you very much. Take. Take your man away. To be continued. We've never ended a podcast like that. Oh. Never To Be Continued Part one. This episode is presented by Whole Foods Market. Whole Foods Markets has everything you need for the holidays. Whether you're a guest or hosting the big dinner, Whole Foods Markets has convenience and cost friendly finds that'll delight everyone at your table. Plus plus Great gift ideas, all of which follow the Whole Foods Market's strict ingredient standards. Shop for everything you need at Whole Foods Market, your holiday headquarters. What Now With Trevor Noah is produced by DayZero Productions in partnership with SiriusXM. The show is executive produced by Trevor Noah, Sanaz Yamin and Jess Hackle. Rebecca Chain is our producer. Our development researcher is Marcia Robiou. Music, mixing and mastering by Hannis Brown. Random other stuff by Ryan Parduth. Thank you so much for listening. Join me next week for another episode of what Now.

[RuPaul's Drag Race Promo Voice]

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