Emily McDonald: Can You Rewire Your Brain?

Summary

---

What Now? with Trevor Noah

Episode: Emily McDonald (M on the Brain): Can You Rewire Your Brain?

Date: March 19, 2026

---

Overview

In this engaging and insightful episode, Trevor Noah sits down with neuroscientist Emily McDonald—known online as “M on the Brain”—to discuss the profound question: Can you truly rewire your brain? Together with co-host Eugene, the trio explores the intersection of neuroscience, psychology, “woo-woo” spirituality, habit formation, addiction, neuroplasticity, and the science behind personal transformation. As always, Trevor brings his unique wit and candor, making complex science accessible, practical, and deeply personal.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Emily’s Path to Neuroscience & Addiction Research

• Academic Journey: Emily initially set out to be a pre-med student but found her passion in neuroscience after a friend’s suggestion.
  • “I had never even heard of neuroscience at the time. It just sounded cool. So I switched my major to it immediately. Fell in love.” (06:51)
• Focus on Addiction: Personal struggles with nicotine addiction drew her to study relapse and the limitations of current addiction treatments.
  • “I took a class in undergrad about why the current treatments for relapse don't work. And they're really just putting band aids on the symptoms…” (07:43)
• Preclinical Research Defined: Emily explains the research pipeline from laboratory discovery to clinical application. (07:40–08:10)

2. Rewiring Your Brain: The Science Behind Change

• Self-Experimentation: Emily shares how she used her understanding of habit and memory to overcome her own vaping addiction by associating vaping with disgust.
  • “I taught my brain to associate it with just the feeling of disgusting...I would sit in that feeling and make sure my brain was paying attention to it.” (09:52–10:57)
• Breaking Down Habit Formation:
  • All habits, whether good or bad, are learned behaviors driven by dopamine.
  • Over time, the dopamine “reward” shifts from the action itself to anticipation and cues—explaining why ads are powerful if you’ve already experienced the product. (13:10–16:43)
  • “Your brain has learned that it’s rewarding...Your dopamine has learned to associate the picture with a reward.” (15:47)

3. Why Good Habits Feel Harder than Bad Ones

• Trevor’s Question: Why are positive habits tougher to maintain?
• Emily's Answer: Positive habits often require more conscious effort; the immediate dopamine hit is lower, and our environment is structured to cue us toward short-term, high-reward behaviors.
  • “A lot of people think that they can't focus...Really what it is, is that they have super well-practiced distraction.” (74:39)

4. Neuroscience Meets “Woo-Woo”: Bridging Science & Spirituality

• Connecting Modalities: Emily uniquely merges neuroscience with spiritual practices like visualization, meditation, and frequency therapies.
• Perception & Consciousness: Our senses are filtered and constructed by our beliefs, emotions, and memories—not simple raw input.
  • “You’re not seeing the world with your eyes...Your thoughts, emotions, memories, your beliefs, who you believe you are—all that's incorporated before the image is even put together that you see by your brain.” (24:24)
• “Rose-Colored Lenses” Explained: Positive emotional states literally make the world appear more vivid. (24:53)
• Sound Frequencies: Scientific basis for “healing” frequencies like 432Hz, shown to enhance alpha brainwaves and promote calmness. (25:49–27:21)

5. Belief, Identity, and Change: The Practical How-To

• Identity Shifting: To create lasting change, act in accordance with the version of yourself you want to become.
  • “When I visualize that part, that version of you has different habits than you do right now...She doesn’t vape.” (21:35)
• Practical Visualization: NASA and elite athletes visualize themselves overcoming problems, which “trains” the premotor cortex and changes the way you perform under stress. (88:57–91:49)
• Self-Talk as a Tool: The ongoing conversation you have with yourself directly rewires your brain—repetition creates new neural pathways.
  • “When you change the way you talk to yourself and treat yourself...that’ll change everything.” (126:20)

6. Society, Education & Unlearning

• Conditioning & Art: Art reveals our diverse perspectives. Societal mechanisms, like standardized education, may suppress individual ways of seeing and being. (67:09–68:13)
• ADHD as Adaptation: Traits considered “disorders” may have served important roles in different environments. Society often marginalizes those with divergent wiring. (71:02–72:06)

7. Reality Construction & Opportunity

• Kitten Study Analogy: Our brains filter out opportunities (jobs, relationships, experiences) we're not taught to expect or desire—change your belief, and your brain can “see” them at last.
  • “What am I not seeing because of the way I was raised, right? Like jobs, money, opportunities, a relationship, relationships especially…” (66:23)
• Visualization & Manifestation: The science behind “manifesting”—visual input, affirmations, and repeated exposure change both mindset and biology, increasing the chance you'll see and seize opportunity. (126:27)

8. Addiction: Understanding & Overcoming

• Definition: Dependence is identified by tolerance and withdrawal; the inability to stop even when wanting to. (113:31–114:16)
• Not Just Substances: Anything that boosts dopamine—work, exercise, even positive routines—can become an addiction if you develop dependence.

9. Psychedelics, Neuroplasticity & the Default Mode Network

• Psychedelics’ Effect: Substances like psilocybin, LSD, and meditation can quiet the brain’s “default mode network,” allowing for radical shifts in self-concept, healing trauma, and changing behavior. (117:02–118:42)
• Opening the Mind: Profound experiences (through psychedelics or spiritual practices) alter perception and create new default behaviors. (121:04)
• Societal Implications: The reason psychedelics have been suppressed may be because they dissolve rigid, productivity-focused hierarchies. (121:40–123:14)

---

Memorable Quotes & Moments

“Your brain is an association machine. You're in a relationship with everything in your life.”
— Emily (M on the Brain), (09:48)

“You just learned a behavior, your brain has learned a behavior...It's learned to automate that behavior so that it's no longer a conscious act.”
— Emily, (12:00)

“Anything that boosts dopamine, it will drive learning ... Over time, you get the dopamine from seeing the ice cream because your brain’s anticipating a reward. That’s craving.”
— Emily, (13:49)

“When you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change.”
— Wayne Dyer (quoted by Eugene), (119:07)

“The person, your dream person could be right in front of you, but you won't see them because you don't believe that dating is good in your city.”
— Emily, (102:45)

“If I'm going to go get these shoes and make myself—I'm wearing my boots, you guys both said you like my boots—when you are feeling like your best self, then you actually perform better. Joy enhances your performance.”
— Emily, (86:33)

“I became unstoppable, and it didn't matter what happened. Belief in yourself improves your performance. It's a biological advantage to believe in yourself.”
— Emily, (108:30)

---

Important Segment Timestamps

• Emily’s Academic Journey, Focus on Addiction — 06:27–09:10
• How She Rewired Her Brain to Quit Vaping — 09:22–10:57
• Trevor on Bad Habits, Ice Cream & Ads — 11:05–16:43
• Why Ads Work (Personal Associations) — 17:44–18:54
• Going Cold Turkey vs Gradual Change — 18:54–19:56
• Identity Shifting & Visualization — 21:35, 88:57–91:49
• Science vs “Woo-Woo” — Connecting the Two — 22:03–28:14
• How Perception Constructs Reality (“Kitten Study”) — 24:24, 66:23
• Art as a Mirror for Individual Reality — 67:09–68:13
• On Diagnosed ADHD & Social Norms — 71:02–72:06
• Breaking the “Default Mode Network” (Psychedelics, Meditation) — 117:02–119:13
• Practical Habit Change, Positive Self-Talk — 126:27–126:50
• Emily’s Closing Advice — 124:27–126:20

---

Takeaways & Action Steps

• Habits Are Learned...and Rewritable: Recognize that your brain is plastic—change happens through focused repetition and by consciously associating new meanings with behaviors.
• Visualize Success, Not Just Obstacles: Use mental rehearsal to practice being your “favorite self” in moments of challenge.
• Self-Talk Matters: The way you speak to yourself sets the tone for your reality—affirmations and rewiring self-concept are vital first steps.
• Bridging Science and Spirituality Is Powerful: Practices like journaling, visualization, sound therapy, and meditation have scientific backing for their transformative power.
• Environment & Exposure: Repeated exposure to what you want—whether a neighborhood you dream of living in or roles you aspire to—helps make it familiar and achievable to your brain.
• Psychedelics & Mind Expansion: While research is still evolving, psychedelic experiences can offer radical shifts in self-concept and alleviate deep-seated trauma by disrupting default neural patterns.
• Society and Systems: Be aware that social norms and structures often condition us into restrictive patterns—seek out what works for you, not just what's “normal.”
• Start with the Inner Conversation: If you want to rewire your brain, begin by changing how you talk to yourself—affirm it, visualize it, and your brain will begin to see opportunities it was previously filtering out.

---

Final Words

“The first step is working on your own self concept and how you talk to yourself. Even if your external reality doesn’t change, your internal reality definitely will, and you’ll start to feel better...And that's the point of all this: to feel better.”
— Emily (M on the Brain), (124:27–126:20)

---

This episode is packed with laughter, stories, and deeply practical insights—a must-listen for anyone ready to harness the power of their mind for change.

Transcript

[Trevor Noah]

My idea is we create old age homes that are kindergartens.

[Eugene]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

Because old people, they've done that. Wait, they have.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

So they've done a research.

[Trevor Noah]

They stole my idea. Come on.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

So if. No, no. So they haven't done this for like, as a business. So don't. No, but there is actually research to show your idea would work. If I'm clear on your idea.

[Trevor Noah]

This is why I need you in my life and my hype.

[Eugene]

You know how many? Well, let me tell you, his idea is great.

[Trevor Noah]

You know how many. I say things to people and then they'll be like, I don't know if that. And if I had you around, you could be like, there's research to show. Bam. This is what now with Trevor Noah. This message is a paid partnership with Apple Card. Imagine this. You're at a checkout counter. You're ready to pay, when you realize you don't have your wallet. Dun, dun, dun. You could drive all the way back home and you could get it, but you remember that you have your Apple card on your iPhone so you can tap to pay with Apple pay. Imagine that. No need to carry a wallet. But, you know, one of the things I do like about having my card on my phone is we live in a world where you lose your card and then you don't know where it is. And then you're like, what do I do? Well, if your phone is connected to your card and your card is connected to your phone, you know what's going on. The best thing about having the Apple card connected to your phone is you know what every transaction is. You know, like, sometimes you're like, what did I spend this month? The Apple card will show you one month. I had spent an obscene amount of money ordering videos online.

[Eugene]

Just videos.

[Trevor Noah]

They were just videos.

[Eugene]

What kind of videos?

[Trevor Noah]

That's not the point. The point is, I knew that I didn't want to order those videos anymore because I'd spent too much money on was videos on how to not spend money online. I felt like I'd been duped. Point is, Apple showed me what I was spending my money on, and I was able to change my spending habits. And you can do it too. I earn up to 3% d cash back on every purchase with my Apple card. That's unlimited daily cash back no matter where I shop. Apply for Apple card in the wallet app on your iPhone. Subject to credit approval. Apple card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Salt Lake City Branch terms and

[M (Emon the Brain)]

more at applecard.com Eczema is unpredictable, but you can flare less with EPGLIS, a once monthly treatment for moderate to severe eczema. After an initial four month or longer dosing phase. About four in ten people taking EB gliss achieved itch relief and clear or almost clear skin at 16 weeks and most of those most people maintain skin that's still more clear at one year with monthly dosing.

[Pharmaceutical Ad Narrator]

MGLIS Lebricizumab LBKZ a 250mg per 2ml injection is a prescription medicine used to treat adults and children 12 years of age and older who weigh at least 88 pounds or 40 kilograms with moderate to severe eczema, also called atopic dermatitis that is not well controlled with prescription therapies used on the skin or topicals or who cannot use topical therapies. Epglis can be used with or without topical corticosteroids. Don't use if you're allergic to Epglis. Allergic reactions can occur that can be severe. Eye problems can occur. Tell your doctor if you have new or worsening eye problems. You should not receive a lot vaccine when treated with ebglis. Before starting Epglis, tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Ask your doctor about ebglis and visit epglis.lily.com or call 1-800-lilyrx or 1-800-545-5979.

[Trevor Noah]

This episode is brought to you by Verizon. All right, Eugene, let's play a little game. You know, make something fun. Two truths and a lie. Here we go. One, I've had to tell a world leader that their fly was undone. Two, when getting dressed, I don't do sock, sock, shoe, shoe. I do sock, shoe, sock, shoe. Three, I've been a Verizon customer for 11 years. What do you think?

[Eugene]

Very confused. First of all, why would a world leader own a fly? Because those things just come uninvited. Secondly, lying to your friends is not cool. There's never been a game.

[Trevor Noah]

No, Eugene, a fly is for like the zip is what? And then it's not a lie. It's a game where I'm trying. It's like I give you information. Okay, I lied. All three are true, Eugene. And in case you were thinking, you know, Verizon isn't as expensive as you think. In fact, if you bring in your AT&T or T mobile bill, they'll give you a better deal. And the reason I've been with them for this long is just because I travel so much, I need a network that's reliable. That's right. A better deal or on the best network with the most ways to save on plans, streaming and phone deals. Take your AT&T or T mobile bill to your local Verizon store today. Get your better deal and start saving for real. Based on root metrics, best overall Mobile Network Performance US Second Half 2025. All rights reserved. You must provide recent consumer mobile bill in the name of the person redeeming the deal. Additional terms, conditions and restrictions apply. So do you understand how two truths. And do you understand it now?

[Eugene]

I understand that you didn't have to lie first before telling me that Verizon is the best.

[Trevor Noah]

No, I wasn't lying, Eugene. It's not a lie. I wouldn't lie to you. It's a game. Okay, I'm sorry I lied.

[Eugene]

Ah,

[Trevor Noah]

Well, I'm gonna call you M on the brain. But what. What do your friends call you?

[M (Emon the Brain)]

They call.

[Trevor Noah]

They call you M as well. Yeah, I like this.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

No, you know, at least you got it right. Because a lot of people think it's like, Emon the brain. They think my name's Emon? Yeah, it's a common misconception. So because it's spelled E M O N T H E Brain.

[Trevor Noah]

I mean, it just seems logical that

[M (Emon the Brain)]

it would be M on the brain.

[Trevor Noah]

Although I can't judge them if you don't read the person's name under their, like, you know, their tag. I guess it's Emon. Emon the Brain. I prefer M. Okay, okay, M. But this is what I like to call a selfish episode. Because I feel like Eugene and I are really just going to ask you to fix our brains for us.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Perfect.

[Trevor Noah]

You know what I mean? Because you. You, You. You're known as. And I've watched your evolution online, which has been really great to see from afar, is like you. You shared your journey, studying, working in and around you. What were you studying at the time?

[M (Emon the Brain)]

I was studying drug addiction.

[Trevor Noah]

Drug addiction.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Investigating new ways to treat relapse to prevent drug addiction or relapse. The drug addiction. Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

That's wild. And so when you were in university, what were you, like, going into study? Because how did you get into. Was it neuroscience? Was it. What was your, like, your. Your focus and your passion at the time?

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Well, initially I was pre med.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Studying biology. Absolutely hated it. And so I went up to one of my friends that was in my pre med. Org. I was in. In college, and I told him I hated it. I was like, what should I do? And he goes, well, why don't you try neuroscience? And I had never even heard of neuroscience at the time. It just sounded cool. So I switched my major to it immediately. Fell in love. Like aced my first exam. My professor reached out to me. He was like, congrats, you couldn't have done better. And I was like, get me in the research lab. This is so cool. So I started studying learning, memory, the perception of time, all throughout brain development in undergrad. So that's what I was doing. Fell in love with research. But I knew, I always kind of knew that I wanted to be more kind of pre clinical, helping people more directly. Like, studying learning and memory is cool, but I wanted to be able to like, help people and solve problems that doctors couldn't solve.

[Trevor Noah]

Wait, wait, wait. Sorry. What does pre clinical mean?

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Like, for example, so pre clinical research is sort of research that happens before, you know, we take a medication, for example, to clinicians to use. Right. So you're doing sort of research to investigate new ways to treat, for example, relapse or treat depression or anxiety or Parkinson's disease. And you. So that's kind of like pre clinical work before it goes to clinicians, basically. Yeah. And so actually it's funny that you were kind of talking about nicotine before this because I used to be addicted to nicotine. And that was sort of why I initially became passionate about studying drug addiction. And I took a class in undergrad about why the current treatments for relapse don't work. And they're really just putting. They don't really work because they're just putting band aids on the symptoms of the problem rather than actually solving the problem. And that's why research is so important, because you can go and investigate what the problem really is. And so immediately I was like, this is it. This is what I'm meant to do. I meant to go and cure relapse to drug addiction. I'm going to go get my PhD and I'm going to win a Nobel Prize for this. And so, yeah, and so from then I was like, okay, let me go get my PhD in neuroscience. So that is sort of how I became really passionate about drug addiction research and how I. The path that led me to the PhD. So, yeah, moved to Arizona, started my PhD in neuroscience with a minor in medical pharmacology so that I could study drug addiction. And that's what I was doing for a few years.

[Trevor Noah]

That's really crazy. Did it work for you? Did the research help you?

[Eugene]

She's smoking.

[Trevor Noah]

How do you know?

[Eugene]

Because she had to Go to university to do it.

[Trevor Noah]

You don't know. Are you making these assumptions?

[M (Emon the Brain)]

He is making assumptions. And I would say the research in itself, no. But my knowledge of the brain, absolutely, yes. I taught myself to associate, and it was vaping for me, but I taught my brain to associate it with just the feeling of disgusting.

[Eugene]

You rewired your brain.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Yes.

[Eugene]

So you took a feeling that you didn't have before for something that you liked and then recoded it.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Yep.

[Eugene]

And said this. This is disgusting.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Yeah.

[Eugene]

The action of it. It's exactly buying it. Putting it into my pocket, put it into my mouth.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

So I would. I would let myself carry it around still, and I would let myself have the craving and I would. I would put it in a place where it took me a second so that there was kind of a gap between the initial craving and the action of actually doing it. Because that's what addiction is. Right. It becomes like this mind mindless stimulus response behavior where the stimulus is like seeing the vape or seeing the cigarette or whatever it is. And then immediate response. Or for example, social media, you see the notification, all of a sudden you're picking up your phone and you're scrolling and you don't even know how you got there. Right. So it's. I kind of added a little bit of space where I still would carry it around. I'd put it, like, I would drive and I'd put it underneath the passenger seat of my car and I would get that craving and I would, like, add a red light. You know, it gave me some time to kind of rewire that association. And the brain's an association machine. You're in a relationship with everything in your life. So, yeah, I would pick it up and I'd be like, oh, no, this is disgusting. And even if I wanted to still hit it, I would. But then I would make sure to, like, pay attention to the feeling of feeling gross that I just did it. And I would sit in that feeling and really feel the feeling and make sure my brain was paying attention to it.

[Eugene]

Yeah.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

And over time. Yeah. And so even after I quit, I would get that craving still, of course. And then immediately my brain would remember, oh, yeah, no, that's gross. We don't really want that.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay, wait, so help. Help us understand or help me understand, really, the. The. The process of what's actually happening. Because you're saying this about vaping. You're saying, you know, disgusting. In my head, I'm like, oh, but they're strawberry flavors. I don't even vape by the way, never smoked strawberries. I love strawberries. I'm like, that's how they'd get me. But I, I can, I feel like I can have the same, I have the same story with like, ice cream late at night or, you know, chocolate. And then somebody else might have it with social media where they go, oh, that's exactly me. Every time I pull it out, I've lost, I've lost two, three hours, four hours. But I didn't actually want to be here.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

So how, how does that work? First of all, what is happening to the brain when it's, when you're doing that, when you're doing something you don't necessarily want to do, but you keep finding yourself doing what is happening to the brain. And then I want to get to how the rewiring actually works.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Yeah. So what's happening is really just maladaptive habit formation. And that just means the formation of bad habits. That's all it is. It's just learning. And I think, you know, in undergrad I was definitely divinely led on the path toward studying, learning and memory first, because then I really understand the process of learning. And that's really all it is, is you've just learned a behavior, your brain has learned a behavior, and it's learned to automate that behavior so that it's no longer a conscious act. For example, getting up in the morning and hopefully brushing your teet is an automated behavior that, that you, they know, you'll never know. Well, I'm hoping, I'm hoping that that's an automatic behavior.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, but before you move on from that, then why, why is it that good habits are harder to keep? Like, I know that working out is good for me. I know that going for a walk is good for me. I know that stretching is good for me. I know, I know all these things and then I'll do them and I'll feel good after doing them. But then I don't find myself craving, like a gym session. I don't find myself being like, you know, I'll be nice right now, a little bench press. I know it's midnight, but I can sneak in a little 250.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

You see, I like to do that sometimes. But I'll tell you, there's a couple things there. All right, so if you want to talk about the neuroscience of habit formation, the way that every single habit is formed is it first begins as a dopamine driven activity. Right. So when social media first came out, you weren't going on social media out of habit. You went on there because you could connect with your friends or you could, you know, see, you could post something or whatever it is, right? You're, you went on there for a goal, for a reason. Same thing with ice cream or, you know, vaping, whatever it is. You, you started it because it felt good. That's why you started.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay, so feel good is the first thing, right?

[M (Emon the Brain)]

And then that dopamine. So dopamine actually drives learning, it drives neuroplasticity, which is the ability for your brain to rewire. So dopamine drives learning. So and dopamine does, isn't just released when something great happens. It's also released when something not so great happens. It's more of a salience molecule, which means, like, look at me. So anything that really like grabbed your attention, that's why you have really strong memories of bad events as well, because they're emotional and they raise dopamine as well, just in a different way. So yeah, anything that really boosts dopamine, it will drive that learning, right? And so what actually happens is that over time, the dopamine moves from being released when you get the good thing to being released whenever you see sort of a cue or something that represents that good thing. Right? So for example, it's super, super easy to just talk about it with, you know, drugs of abuse, but we can talk about ice cream. It initially you got dopamine from eating ice cream, but over time you get the dopamine from seeing the ice cream because your brain's anticipating a reward. So your dopamine moves from actually getting the reward to the anticipation of the reward. And that's craving. So that's sort of how habit formation works. And then once that happens, then you kind of begin this, this, it goes from this goal directed behavior, right? And it moves to a stimulus response behavior or a cue response where like before it was like, oh, I want to eat this ice cream, because I know that I want to eat this ice cream. It's going to taste good. And now it's like, oh, no, I see the ice cream. Dopamine is released when I see the carton. And that's going to drive me. Because dopamine is also a molecule of action to go and eat it. And you're not even, you don't want to. It's just that your dopamine has learned to associate the picture of the ice cream that you're seeing with a reward. And now you're not even deciding it. It's just your brain is Driving you to do it.

[Trevor Noah]

This is why ads work.

[Eugene]

Yeah, but.

[Trevor Noah]

But I guess it also explains to me why ads are more effective when you've actually had the thing. So sometimes I'll watch an ad for, like, Taco Bell, for instance. Taco Bell ads come on all the time. It's never, never ever once made me go, I want Taco Bell. Because I haven't had Taco Bell in my life. I don't ever. Maybe I had it once. I think I had it once on the road when I was with Gabriel Iglesias. And then we bought one of my favorite memories. We were on the road somewhere. Where were we? Maybe we were in El Paso, Texas. Or maybe somewhere in that region. And after all the. After a comedy show, we'd go and we'd just buy, you know, food, whatever, takeout. And then one day, Gabriel and the gang, we're in the tour bus, and then he's like. He says to me, he's like, yo. He's like, do you wanna get some Taco Bell? I was like, I've never had Taco Bell. Everyone on the bus was like, you never had Taco Bel? It was literally like an ad. Everyone you've never had, we gotta get him. Taco Bell.

[Eugene]

The bus driver.

[Trevor Noah]

We're on the way to Taco Bell. So now we're driving this giant tour bus. Like, bom bom, Taco Bell, here we come. We get there, now we want to go through the drive through. We can't because the bus is too big. So we had to walk through the drive through because the Taco Bell itself was closed. So we walk through the drive through, and then they just, like, we ordered for everyone on the bus, plus more. Cause they wanted me to taste everything. And I'll never forget, there's a moment where I'm walking back to the bus and I'm carrying two bags. But I mean, like, huge, huge, huge, huge bags. I felt like Julia Roberts in Pretty Woman, you know, when, like, I'd come back from shop, but with Taco Bell guys, I've never felt sexier in my life. Cause I love food. I was like. And I'm walking to the bus, and Gabriel Iglesias, he's looking at me, like, from the bus.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

And.

[Trevor Noah]

And he looked. And it was almost like we had the same thought. Cause as I got to the bus, he looked at me and he's like, you've never looked harder. And I walked on. But that was the only time I ate it, right? And it was like, ah, okay, whatever.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

I Was gonna say, what did you think?

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, it was. Meh. It was okay. It was whatever. But it wasn't something that, like, it didn't stay with me. So genuinely, whenever I watch a Taco Bell ad, I don't have a. Oh, I should get that now. But Pizza Hut or, like, a McDonald's or one. Let them flash a McFlurry on the screen for half a second. Yeah, I will find that machine, wherever it is.

[Eugene]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

I will turn it on myself.

[Eugene]

You love ice cream. Hey, my friend, he's the only guy I know who chews ice cream.

[Trevor Noah]

Yo, bruh. You know me and you love me. You see you. You see me? You. You see me?

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Eugene, choose ice cream.

[Eugene]

Choose it even without toppings.

[Trevor Noah]

I chew it, I savor it. I.

[Eugene]

Guys, it's like an ice cream sommelier.

[Trevor Noah]

This guy loves me. This guy knows me. No, but that's what I mean. It's like, so, like, the ads have more power over you when you've actually experienced the thing. Do you get what I'm saying? Yeah.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Right, Right. Because your brain has learned that it's rewarding.

[Trevor Noah]

Wow. So then it becomes now it becomes a trigger. That's how it can work on you, is like. Because now you've had it when you watch the ad or when you see, like, the social media thing. Scroll. I think this explains so much.

[Eugene]

What you're saying. Also explains why going cold turkey on anything never works. Because anything that you love, there's a process to it. Like how we explained you going into the shop, choosing a flavor, paying for that, getting the reward of paying for it because, you know, have it now you put in your pocket. But all of a sudden, if the whole process is cut short, then the reward is not there anymore. Then you start missing the thing more. But I find that when you have the vape inside your car but you choose not to do it, then you're slowly taking away the one word. Right.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

I love that you made that point of, like, feeling stressed, too, because that was another thing. And that's why I decided to do it the way that I did. Because when you go cold turkey, it almost. Especially when you're addicted to something, you feel this sense of, like, stress without it and not having it. And stress reduces activity in the prefrontal cortex, which is the area of your brain that allows you to control your impulses.

[Eugene]

Yes.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

So it actually makes you. And that's why, you know, when people quit an addiction or something, and all of a sudden they feel stressed, they're more likely to Relapse because it your ability to control your impulses is reduced.

[Eugene]

But here's my thing. Do we quit things that we're addicted to because they're hurting other people, or do we quit because they're hurting us? Cause initially, everything there was a dopamine spike. I liked what I was doing. I was having too much of a good time at a strip club. Now I have kids. Now I have to think, do I tip strippers or do I pay for school fees? Is it the strippers or is it the kids? Am I stopping this because I want to stop or because they are crying because they're hungry now? Not the strippers, the kids.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

These analogies are so crazy.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

So Trevor thinks this is really funny.

[Eugene]

Choose ice cream.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

No, no. But I'm sitting here, like, thinking about this very much from my own perspective and experience. And the way that I decided was it's always about who I'm wanting to become, and it's always about that. And, you know, you can never force somebody to quit something they don't want to. Like, you have to want to do it. And I think for me, I didn't care to quit vaping. I didn't care how many ads showed me what happens to your lungs. Like, I didn't care about any of that. I was young. I don't care about that. I don't care about my health. Like, whatever. The thing that made me care about stopping was understanding that there is a gap currently between who you are now and the version of you who's achieved everything you've ever wanted in life. And when you visualize that part, when you have hold that version of you in your mind, like, that version of you has different habits than you do right now. And the version of me who's boss woman, like, achieving everything, she doesn't vape. And so I was like, damn. Like, if I want to become that version of me and achieve everything I want to achieve, then I need to stop doing this, because it's creating a gap between where I am now and where I want to go.

[Trevor Noah]

So this is. This is, I think, something that attracted a lot of people to your account and to your work online is like, there were a lot of people who would give you information about the brain in a very technical way that help you understand how your brain works, what your brain does, you know, dopamine, and there's all these phrases, you know, like a stimulus and neoprene and like plasticity. Plasticity.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Maybe you were trying to say norepinephrine.

[Trevor Noah]

That's exactly what I was trying to say. That's exactly. But you knew what I was trying to say. You see? You see, that's.

[Eugene]

That's exactly what.

[Trevor Noah]

Because every time I see that word, I'm just like, amen. Neoprene.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

I knew what you meant.

[Trevor Noah]

Thank you very much. Have you ever seen how it's written? No. Neo.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Exactly like that.

[Trevor Noah]

It is written like that.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Neo.

[Trevor Noah]

All right. And then people sort of just, you think, you know, and you're like, oh, the neopropeprannine and the dopamine and then the serotonin and then the oxytocin. Okay. And then on the other side of, like, let's say the Internet, slash, the world, you have people who are like, visualize and think about what you want in life. And what I. And I think a lot of people would call, like, woo, woo. You know, you'd be like, visualize. Do you? And you're like, all right. And a lot of people love that and swear by it. And then I find these two worlds have often been at odds. So someone who's, like, deep in the science goes like, don't listen to that. And someone who's deep in the woo woo goes like, don't listen to the other thing. And then you started showing the connection between the two. You went like, no, no, no, no. Let me explain how a meditation does something to your brain. And let me show you how your brain responds to what you want or what you think. And let me show you how a visualization shifts you and shapes you. How did. How did you start thinking that? Because I'm assuming you didn't learn that in school.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

No, and I actually get asked all the time. Any books you recommend? I'm like, it's very much a connection between two disciplines that I love and that fulfill me. But, yeah, I would say in school when I was getting my first neuroscience degree. Yeah, I have two degrees in neuroscience. Hey, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

One for you and me each, Eugene, to make up for the degrees we never got.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

He said first. Thank you. I appreciate that.

[Eugene]

I do, too.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

So, yeah, when I was getting my first degree in neuroscience and studying especially just the different sensory systems, so for example, your visual system and how your brain constructs everything that you see. Like, you're not seeing the world with your eyes. Your eyes are just taking. Taking in light signals. And then those light signals travel through the brain where your thoughts, emotions, memories, your beliefs, who you believe you are, all that's incorporated before the image is even put together that you see by your brain.

[Trevor Noah]

Wait, let's slow that down. Just go back on that. Because you're gonna say it and then we're gonna act like we completely got it.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

Which maybe you did. But wait, wait. Your eyes are not seeing. They're only taking in light.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Right?

[Trevor Noah]

Okay. And that light is then going into

[M (Emon the Brain)]

your brain, traveling through the brain, all these different areas, but it's basically being

[Trevor Noah]

bent by your memories.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Exactly.

[Trevor Noah]

The way you think about the world.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Your current emotions.

[Trevor Noah]

Your current emotions.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

You ever heard the saying, seeing the world through rose colored lenses? When you are in a positive emotional state, your brain actually constructs color as more vivid. So you actually see the world more vividly and more saturated. So literally the world is more colorful and you actually are seeing the world through rose colored lenses.

[Eugene]

That.

[Trevor Noah]

That means there's almost a scientific backing behind the phrase woke up on the wrong side of bed.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Yeah, yeah. Your energy state is so important. And then that goes back to exactly what you were asking me about is, is, you know, how did I start to connect spirituality and these woo woo things with neuroscience? And I think, you know, exactly when I was learning about these different systems. And vision is just one of them. They all work this way. Like, for example, sound. And the way that you hear, like the membrane in your ear is organized by frequency. And if you're on the woo woo side of the world, you. You may have heard before that different frequencies of sound can have different effects on you.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, yeah. Like sound bowls.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Right? All of Those Solfeggio frequencies. 528, 432. And both of those have studies showing that they do actually impact the brain in different ways and binaural beats and things like that. So literally, actually, it all clicked one moment when I was laying in bed one night in my apartment whenever I was in undergrad, and I just was listening to. And I sort of went on this spiritual journey toward the end of my first degree in neuroscience. And I read the book the Untethered Soul, if you guys have ever heard of that. It's really good, but. And so I started meditating and I started, you know, doing like. And I, I was laying in bed listening to 432Hz as I was falling asleep. And I was like, whoa, wait a minute. The membrane in the ear is organized by frequency. What if this certain frequency of sound is activating my brain in a specific way and actually changing the way that my state of mind is? And that's why these frequencies of sound work. And I turn over, pick up my phone, Google it, and There are papers showing exactly what just popped into my head. Like, yeah, 432 hertz has been shown to boost alpha wave activity in the brain. Alpha waves are associated with a sense of calm. And so, you know, people on the woo woo side of the world say, oh, it's really good for meditation or sleep. And then in the science world, it has been shown to help people fall asleep, stay asleep, boost alpha waves in the brain. And so that was kind of my first moment of, oh, maybe there is some overlap and there are some kind

[Trevor Noah]

of between the different worlds.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Right? And so that kind of just started me on this. This spiral, this upward spiral of just connecting dots everywhere. And. And, yeah, and I think I've just got. And then, you know, moving to Arizona. I was just talking to your team about Arizona, and it's. The desert is a very spiritual place. And moving there While doing my PhD and just really growing in my spirituality, while also, of course, doing a PhD in neuroscience, so really studying neuroscience to, like, the depths that you could possibly study it. And, yeah, I just started connecting all these dots and then also connecting what I was learning with my own experiences as well. And I think a lot of people ask me, you know, where does this information come from? And most of it, the information I share is from my own lived experience. And then I'm like, huh, I wonder what's happening in my brain right now. And then I think about it, look into it, read some papers, and I'm like, that makes sense. And then I talk about it.

[Trevor Noah]

We're gonna continue this conversation right after this short break. You know what's most interesting about therapy is that most people already know it could help them. It's not like we're unaware. You have a moment, maybe after a long day or something happens in life and you think, yeah, I should probably talk to someone. But then, nothing. And it's not because you don't care. It's because it feels complicated. Cost feels unclear. Insurance feels confusing. Finding the right therapist feels overwhelming. And time. Time always feels like the one thing you don't have, so the idea just gets postponed. And that's a pattern a lot of people fall into. But that's where Rula makes a difference. Rula is a healthcare company that helps make accessing mental health care feel more straightforward. They work directly with insurance providers, so you can see personalized cost estimates upfront. No guessing, no surprises. And sessions average about $15. With insurance, you can sign up and find a therapist in as little as five minutes. And appointments can be available as soon as the next day. And what I appreciate is that by removing those common barriers, the cost, confusion, the time, the search, it starts to feel more possible to actually take that first step. Because sometimes the hardest part isn't deciding you need support. It's figuring out how to begin. And when that part becomes simpler, everything else becomes a little easier to face. So head to rula.com that's r u l a.com to find a therapist the easy way. You know, Eugene, one of the things I've always loved about food is you can travel without going anywhere. Some people book flights. I just walk into Whole Foods Market. Whole Foods Market is your go to destination for a flavor tour inspired by regions across the world. Like, one minute I'm thinking about making dinner. The next thing I know, I'm in Italy because I picked up the checo pasta and Rao's sauce, the cecco pasta. Then I see siete tortillas. San Pellegrino. Now we're in Mexico with sparkling water. Confidence.

[Eugene]

Siete tortillas.

[Trevor Noah]

And if you don't feel like cooking well, the prepared foods department at Whole Foods Market makes dinner time so easy. Empanadas, burritos, soups. Lunch or dinner. Solved. You just follow the yellow signs and suddenly you're on a flavor tour without leaving your postcode.

[Eugene]

Burritos.

[Trevor Noah]

Exactly. If you want snacks, Plantain tostones, Peruvian potato chips, Filo's walking tamales. You're basically touring Latin America through crunch alone.

[Eugene]

Tamales.

[Trevor Noah]

And don't forget dessert, because every good trip ends with something sweet like tres leches cake. Expand your horizons without expanding your luggage.

[Eugene]

Tres leches.

[Trevor Noah]

If you need a weeknight shortcut, you could also head into aisles for $3.65 by Whole Foods Market. Rice, beans, chunky salsas, instant taco nights tacos. Or check the frozen aisle for $3.65 brand taquitos at low prices. Dinner handled. Taquitos. What are you doing, dude? I'm trying to do an ad.

[Eugene]

I think I can speak Spanish now.

[Trevor Noah]

What do you mean you think you can? You're just saying the words that I said.

[Eugene]

I said everything in Spanish.

[Trevor Noah]

I mean, the words are already in Spanish.

[Eugene]

I commit taquitos.

[Trevor Noah]

Save on regional flavors at Whole Foods Markets.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Taquito.

[Trevor Noah]

This message is a paid partnership with Apple Card. Imagine this. You're at a checkout counter. You're ready to pay when you realize you don't have your wallet. Dun dun, dun. You could drive all the way back home and you could get it. But you remember that you have your Apple card on your iPhone so you can tap to pay with Apple Pay. Imagine that. No need to carry a wallet. But, you know, one of the things I do like about having my card on my phone is we live in a world where you lose your card and then you don't know where it is. And then you're like, what do I do? Well, if your phone is connected to your card and your card is connected to your phone, you know what's going on. The best thing about having the Apple card connected to your phone is you know what every transaction is. You know, like, sometimes you're like, what did I spend this month? The Apple card will show you one month. I had spent an obscene amount of money ordering videos online.

[Eugene]

Just videos?

[Trevor Noah]

They were just videos.

[Eugene]

What kind of videos?

[Trevor Noah]

That's not the point. The point is, I knew that I didn't want to order those videos anymore because I'd spent too much money on was videos on how to not spend money online. I felt like I'd been duped. Point is, Apple showed me what I was spending my money on, and I was able to change my spending habits. And you can do it, too. I earn up to 3% daily cash back on every purchase with my Apple card. That's unlimited daily cash back no matter where I shop. Apply for Apple card in the wallet app on your iPhone subject to credit approval. Apple card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA, Salt Lake City branch terms and [e-mail]. I, I, I wonder why, slash, how we got to a place where we, we got so comfortable dismissing spirituality or the ideas that come with, like, like, you know, connecting to something beyond ourselves and having that clash with what we think of as, like, intelligence and knowledge and do you get what I'm saying?

[Eugene]

I think religion had a big part in that.

[Trevor Noah]

What do you mean?

[Eugene]

Because remember that once religion became a thing, people had to attribute their knowledge to something.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Eugene]

It could never be. I just know it. You know, we always have. There's always this debate in the spiritual realm of, are you a human having a spiritual experience or your spirit having a human experience? And most people feel like when they discover themselves in the middle of their life, whenever it is they were human and now they're having a spiritual experience. But I think it's the other way around. And obviously literature has proved that. And also when they speak to people who know that. So religion always.

[Trevor Noah]

Wait, wait, wait. So you're saying because, I mean, we can never prove it.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

I'm with you 100, by the way.

[Trevor Noah]

No, but we can never prove it, but I'm intrigued by what you're saying. You're saying the argument or the discussion is, are we spirits that are experiencing being human. Yes. Or are we humans experiencing being spirits?

[Eugene]

Yes.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Yes.

[Trevor Noah]

But you can't.

[Eugene]

Are we a human having a spiritual experience, or are we a spirit having a human experience?

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Eugene]

So the thing is, if you want to prove. Well, that's a small part of it, and you can correct me if I'm wrong. M. That you're a spirit having a human experience. Iman.

[Trevor Noah]

Please get our guest name right. Imong.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Now you're gonna confuse the listeners.

[Trevor Noah]

No, no, no, it's M. It's him.

[Eugene]

Yeah, it's M. It's him. It's him. It's. Before you have language, before you have experience, you always had intuition. So how do you account for that? So before you.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, no, I'm. I'm confused. What I mean, no, I'm So.

[Eugene]

So there's something. There's a remembering that's coded in you already. And as you grow older and you get interference of signals of society, the time that you were born in, how hard or how easy your life was, all of that gets numbed down, and then you start living according to experiences.

[Trevor Noah]

Yes, but this is what I'm trying to. This is the question. This is the question that I have for you, though, go like, I guess for both of you. I guess in a way it's like

[Eugene]

we are ready for. There's two degrees between us of separation, not academic.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

That was a good one.

[Trevor Noah]

The thing I find interesting is this. So I grew up in a very religious household. Right. And the thing that I always struggled with and grappled with was how churches and leaders in churches and even members of churches would treat people using their religion as an excuse.

[Eugene]

Right.

[Trevor Noah]

And we see this all over the world. But my personal experience, I oftentimes found myself going, wait, is this. So this is what. This is what a Christian does. I was like, ah, I don't know, man. I don't know. It just. It didn't. It didn't gel for me. And so I think that created an allergy to all religion in many ways. As I've gotten older, I've found in like a humbling way, I've gone like, oh, there are so many things that religion teaches people apart from, like, you know, dogma.

[Eugene]

Yes.

[Trevor Noah]

That now science has sort of come around too. So whether it's like prayer itself, when you think about journaling and the effects of journaling and the processing and I'D love for you to speak a little bit about this. Closing your eyes and thinking about your day before you go to sleep. I see all these things coming out now where scientists are like, oh, that really helps you go to sleep. And it also helps your brain sort of like just switch everything off, you know what I mean? But like, so something, something like that or something like fasting, which most religions have, or all these, you're starting to see more of the tie ins where science is sort of catching up to old ideas and then old ideas are showing themselves in science. Like where do you think the breakdown came between people saying, oh, we shouldn't listen to that. And now we're going, maybe we should listen to some of that.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Yeah, I think honestly there used to be a lot more overlap. There used to be a lot more in science and in research especially, like in the 1900s there was a lot of research especially, I mean, even with psychedelics and things like that. And what happened was there were a few scientists that just took it a bit too far and it got to the point where in the science world it became. Yeah, I kind of started to have this dogma around it and this sort of like association around it and it, it became almost disrespected in a way.

[Eugene]

Yeah.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

And it busted. Right, and exactly. Especially with something as simple as hypnosis, for example. Like there's so much like judgment and woo woo around it, but there's so much neuroscience around it as well. But because it has this sort of like, I don't know, well, the gimmick

[Trevor Noah]

as well, let's be honest, once you're making somebody jump on stage and they say they're a dog, I think it undermines what hypnosis may or may not be. And I'm not saying that thing's not real, by the way.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Yeah, I think that that's exactly the analogy that I'm trying to make here is that it kind of, that happened with a lot of the different, you know, research studies that were going on. And it happened in not just hypnosis, but in other areas as well. For example, like psychedelics. There used to be a lot more research on it and then scientists took, took it too far and then it became, oh no, that's wrong, we shouldn't be doing that. And then we went from 100 to zero. And then now we're starting to warm back up to it again and we're slowly introducing it more and more into research and in studies. But also, I think it's still, I think it's still not really, you know, supported. I mean, whenever I was in the PhD, there's this one research lab that they studied mindfulness and meditation. That lab was not well funded. That lab did not get a lot of money for research. And I think that still is the case today. So now while we're seeing more, you know, research on spiritual concepts and spirituality, I think it's still not happening to the extent that it should be. And yeah, I think that that's been my experience. And then even now, when I'm talking about things that I'm talking about online, I'm doing research into really more hardcore scientific concepts like neuroplasticity, the default mode network, the reward system, all of that. And just knowing, because I have such a solid foundation of that information. And then I'm. And then I'm learning about, you know, the law of detachment and all these things. And then I'm connecting it to what I already know is true about the brain. So it's not necessarily that there's a specific study that shows, you know, detachment makes your goals come faster. It's more about me knowing that, yeah, when you are in desperation and in this neediness, then that's going to boost cortisol. And when you are in a state of fight or flight, you get that deer in headlights tunnel vision where you're actually less open to opportunities and other things coming your way. And your brain is filtering for more of that lack and stress, because that's the way the brain works. It filters your reality for whatever it is that you're focused on. So I just know how the brain works, and then I connect it to spiritual kind of concepts and things that I'm learning which are.

[Trevor Noah]

Which are oftentimes easier to understand, I find. That's where I find science is often lacking. Science and academia. My criticism of it is often the fact that. And maybe not of does its job. And then I feel like there's not enough, like, sort of middlemen who are getting the message out. Yeah, yeah. So then it's just like a study and it's abstract, and then it's just left to the devices of the world to be like, this is what it actually means. But then from the other side, there's very good salesmen.

[Eugene]

Yeah, yeah. People did try. I think I read a lot of books that were written by people who grew up in the 60s and were raised by hippies. The Gary Zukoffs, Dr. Wayne Dyer, all of those people who kind of understood that to sell spiritualism or spiritualism, you're going to have to be a bit commercial and go around and bring your life experiences. I'm a doctor. I was in the army. My experiences brought me this. But they knew that they were setting a time bomb that was going to explode in the future 30, 40 years down the line because people are not ready. And obviously, if you think of if. If hypnosis was taken for what it is. Hypnosis is one stage of past life regression. Is what is. Is one stage of actually doing past life regression.

[Trevor Noah]

I don't even know what that means.

[Eugene]

When it goes to a show in Las Vegas and it becomes barking like dogs.

[Trevor Noah]

Wait, but you can't just skip past what you just said. Eugene does this to me all the time.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Then he just says a thing I'm understanding, which.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, I'm not. I'm not. And I'm sure there's a lot of people who are not, but that I don't even care about them right now. Just me. What did you just say?

[Eugene]

I think, yes, hypnosis is just one part of. Of doing a past life regression.

[Trevor Noah]

What does that. Yes, what does that mean?

[Eugene]

So a lot of people. There's a. There's a doctor I think you know about, Brian Weiss.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

I don't know if I do know.

[Eugene]

He did a lot of work studying people. He was a professor, a doctor in university. Okay. He started having this patient who are struggling with certain issues, and then she. He did hypnosis. And then they regressed further and further back. And then he realized many. One. One Body, Many Lives was one of his books, if I'm not. Okay, mistaken. So he found out that a lot of things that people deal with is the body remember or your mind remembers what happened to you in other lives. So when you go back in other lives. So people who have a fear of. Of drowning, an unreasonable fear of drowning, so they've drowned in another life before. And somehow there's something that happens that triggers that memory. The smell of water or sea water or salt, that triggers that memory. So to cure that fear, you have to. Past life, regress them. They have to go back into a life where something tragic happened.

[Trevor Noah]

Yes.

[Eugene]

And that thing was associated with it.

[Trevor Noah]

So it's funny, half of my brain completely rejects this idea.

[Eugene]

Yes.

[Trevor Noah]

But I mean, you know me, I always tell you these things. Half of my brain goes like, no. The other half of my brain goes. We've had a trauma specialist on the show studied trauma her whole life, and she has showed us that there's definitive research that has shown that trauma can be passed down through generations of people who haven't experienced the initial trauma. So there's half of my brain that goes like, oh, I can understand this being possible, but not in the. And that's what I mean. This is what I mean by the woo versus not. Does that make sense in the world of woohoo?

[Eugene]

What you've just explained.

[Trevor Noah]

Yes.

[Eugene]

Is the fact that there's soul families.

[Trevor Noah]

No, no, no, but look, look, no,

[Eugene]

I remember the pain together.

[Trevor Noah]

Yes, but. But I get what you're saying. But, but I. But you understand what I'm saying? Yeah, I'm saying, like, so sometimes this is. This is what I think happens. And this is why, I mean, I enjoy your journey so much. Is we. I think we all live in a world where we are most comfortable with the reality that we've been brought up in and with the evidence that we've been taught to accept as being correct.

[Eugene]

Yes.

[Trevor Noah]

Right. It is very difficult to shake that. And it's very difficult to accept a possibility that something else could be different. But when you move through different worlds, you. You realize that it's necessary. So an example for me was

[Eugene]

there

[Trevor Noah]

were a lot of criticisms levied at African mothers for how they would raise their children. Yeah. By, like, Westerners who'd come in, whether it was colonizers, whether it was, you know, gov, whatever. It was like, they'd go, oh, this is wrong, this is wrong. This is wrong. The way African mother. This is wrong, this is wrong, this is wrong things. They'd complain about them wrapping the baby onto their bodies and, like, tying them up. And they'd be like, no, you should put your baby in a cot and you should leave them this. And you should. And then over the years, when they started doing studies, there were scientists and there were groups that did studies where they found that having the baby up against the mom was really good for regulating their heartbeat, changing their respiratory patterns, calming them down, fostering trust, all of these things.

[Eugene]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

And then do you. I remember this moment distinct. Do you remember when they started launching the things that African moms had had their whole lives and they started selling them in the Western world? And they're like the new trend. You wrap your baby to your body, and now it was like $200 to buy a thing that an African mom did with a towel. I remember this, for me, being a moment where I went, oh, wow. Yes. Even I was taught that that thing is, like, primitive. Your mom did it, but it was primitive, and there's a better way to do it. And Then at some point, science or, you know, researchers went, oh, actually this is a great thing to do, and sort of didn't levy the credit that way. So I, I'm, I'm open to some of these ideas. I think some of the language throws me. I'm not gonna lie, because some people are more comfortable when you just like past lives. Then I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa. In my head, I'm hearing a record go. But when you explain the concepts behind it, I find that maybe I'm not the only person who's a little more open to the possibility of understanding it. It's just when you throw past lives

[M (Emon the Brain)]

flippantly, the terminology is it really.

[Trevor Noah]

I'm not gonna lie, it throws me.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Yeah, I think. And no, and I think that's. I like what you just described also because that's something that I really hold true for my own life is always following your own sense of intuition. And I think that if you're waiting around for a study to show you that something is right or wrong, then you're, you're going to be waiting forever because science is really slow. But also, just because a study shows something too, doesn't mean that it is right or wrong. There are outliers in every single. And so just because something might work for one person, you could be that one dot on the graph that it doesn't work for you.

[Trevor Noah]

It could be a flawed study as well and.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Yeah, exactly. And a lot of studies are very biased too, that I used to do them. So I would like, I've seen the types of people, you know, and I'm not saying that, you know, they're people not trying their best, but, you know, it's like humans are human and they are going to make human mistakes.

[Trevor Noah]

But I think, what don't we understand about studies? What, like, because, you know, as the Internet has, has exploded, as TikTok has become popular, everyone I see on TikTok references a study. And I mean everyone. And I've seen everyone reference any study to say the thing that they're saying

[Eugene]

to justify their is correct.

[Trevor Noah]

But I've seen every. And then I've seen people pull up the same study and go, no, no, no, this is not the study. And then someone else says a meta analysis is more correct. So help us understand the study. So, so for everyone out there, for us as well, when you're conducting a study, help me understand the very basic mechanics of what is actually happening and how that leads to a conclusion that then like CBS this Morning will report and Be like, coffee makes you live 20 years longer. How do they get there?

[M (Emon the Brain)]

I think those, a lot of the, like, claims that are made end up being in the discussion, which aren't even necessarily the point of the study. It's more just speculation of how these results can be applied to and extrapolated to other situations in life. But the way that a study begins is by asking a question, right? So we have this background of information, and I studied, you know, in my PhD, a very specific receptor that we thought got leaky when we were relapsing the drugs.

[Trevor Noah]

Leaky brain.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Yeah, just a leaky calcium channel. And so we know one, we're friends

[Trevor Noah]

with one, and shout out praliki

[M (Emon the Brain)]

and. Yeah, and so you have this background of information, right? And you know some things about it from other areas of research. And you're like, okay, it seems well informed. And you don't just make a random. Ask a random question, but it seems well informed. And so it's like, okay. Now I think based on what I know about this calcium channel, I think it could have something to do with relapse. And then you have to basically say a hypothesis, right? Like, I think that if I, for example, block this channel, then these, you know, then relapse, behavior, relapse is either gone or it will happen more, right? So you have to decide one way or the other, okay? And then you decide, you design a study that you think will help to answer that question. And now the way that that study works and the results of it is you, no matter what results you get, right, you either say that. You either, you don't ever say, like, oh, I was right or I was wrong. You're basically just testing to see if those, if the results are more. If one thing is more likely to happen than the other. It's all likelihood. It's never, it's never a definitive yes or no. It's. This is definitely, you know, this is more likely to not be the case or it more likely is the case that, you know, if I block this channel, then this, these people are no longer going to relapse.

[Eugene]

Okay, okay. But what else is it affecting in their lives?

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Well, that's a whole other topic when we talk about pharmacology, which was a whole other kind of path that I went down whenever I studied. Right. So whenever I would also, like, I was diagnosed with ADHD when I was in high school and I was on ADHD medication for a few years. And then I learned about exactly what you're talking about. Like, what else happens and how do these drugs actually work? And then I made my own personal decision to transition off of them and go a different journey and then rewire my brain to be able to focus as well. But, yeah, and so I think that a lot of times we tend to put these studies or research papers up on pedestals and say, oh, this study shows this, therefore, this is the way things are. And I don't think that that's the way that it should be done at all. It can be used for information to inform, you know, yourself. But also, like you were saying, meta analysis, where that you, you take tons of different studies and kind of look at the results from many different ones. Because another thing that you'll realize is that if you look up something, you could probably find a study proving that you're right. And it could be, I could look up, oh, you know, this is bad for your heart, and I'll find a study proving that. And I could say, oh, actually I think it's good for your heart. And I could find a study proving that too. And so that's the thing is you can find a study to prove whatever it is that you want. And so I think it is important to, to, you know, read a lot and read a lot of different research papers, but also have more of a foundational understanding is, at least in my field of neuroscience, like, having that foundational understanding of the way that the brain works is really important. And so, yeah, I think that the whole. It is becoming really popular that people are wanting to use a study to improve a point. And I don't think that there's anything wrong with that. But I do think it's important to recognize that, you know, there are, you can find a study to prove whatever that you want these days.

[Trevor Noah]

How did you, how did you apply this in your life? Because I find the Internet, slash, the world is full of people who are more than willing to dish out advice and then oftentimes don't seem to apply that advice to themselves. You know what I mean? And so you get these motivational speakers who, when you meet them in real life, aren't really motivated. You have, like, relationships experts who have terrible relationships themselves. Do you get what I'm saying? And I'm generalizing, but you'll often, you'll find these. What I found interesting with you is, and you'll correct me if I'm wrong, it feels like you were also running these sort of experiments on yourself. And I watched your life change in real time and over a very long

[M (Emon the Brain)]

period, I noticed that because I went to DM you and I was like, Whoa, you DMed me, like, almost two years ago.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, you were like, you were doing. Yeah, two years ago I asked you to come on the podcast and there's. But I've watched you go from, boy,

[Eugene]

aren't we glad that was all you did?

[Trevor Noah]

Because no, those, those DMS are safe for you, Eugene. You up, you up.

[Eugene]

I represented you well.

[Trevor Noah]

Hey, you're like, you're representing your fiance. So when I looked at your life, I went. It felt like just by watching you, I saw somebody who was sharing information whilst also applying that information to themselves,

[Eugene]

conducting a real time experiment.

[Trevor Noah]

I'd love to know what your journey was like, because everything about you changed over time. And over time is the key thing for me, the key phrase here. I didn't witness like a magical transformation, you know, like those, those YouTube videos, weightlifting. They trick you all the time. Have you seen those ones? They're like how I lost 40 pounds in six weeks. And then they show you a before and after picture. And really all they do in the before picture is they just push their tummy out, but they still have a six pack and they just maybe drink a lot of water, I don't know. And then they get shredded. But they were shredded.

[Eugene]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

With you, with all due respect, it didn't seem like you were shredded in your life.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

No.

[Trevor Noah]

And then I watched you slowly work towards the thing that you were telling people about. Like, what was, what was the. What were the beginnings of those. What did you start to learn? Like, can you give me examples? What, what were the moments where you went, oh, wow, this is, this is working on me.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Yeah. And I think if you do go back to the beginning and I leave all my posts up for that exact reason, because I have. Have students now, like, clients, and that I coach and like, go back to the beginning and watch my own journey through content, because you'll see, like, it's a very accurate representation of my journey in my personal life. But I mean, I started out with adhd. That was so bad I would be depressed on days I wouldn't take the stimulants. And I was super dependent on them. Obviously. We already talked about being addicted to nicotine, couldn't focus, easily distracted, super impulsive, very emotional as well. Just, just fight or flight all the time, always stressed. And also health issues, like physical health issues as well. I was in and out of doctor's offices when I was younger a lot. And doctors told me I had all these different problems, like depression Anxiety, all these different things.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

And not just mental health problems, but physical, like hormonal imbalances and things like that. So I think, you know, that is what I. I always just kind of thought that's the way that I was. Because that's something that, you know, Dr. Put gives you a diagnosis like, this is you. You. This is your brain. This is who you are. Yeah, good luck. Like, that's gonna navigate that now for the rest of your life. And I thought that's just the way that it was. Like, oh, I was diagnosed with adhd. I'm gonna struggle focusing for the rest of my life. And, you know, I'm gonna need these stimulants. And then I think, learning about the brain, as I was studying neuroscience, I started, you know, neuroplasticity, the ability for your brain to rewire and change and adapt. I started to realize that, oh, wait, maybe the brain can change. And I learned about epigenetics as well. I actually TA'd a class in the PhD on neurogenetics, which is. Epigenetics is the ability to change the way your DNA is expressed. The genes that are expressed.

[Trevor Noah]

The way your DNA is expressed.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Right.

[Trevor Noah]

Can you elaborate?

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Yeah, yeah. So I have this visual in my mind. I'm like, if I had a little model, I could really show it.

[Trevor Noah]

Did you bring your DNA model, Eugene?

[Eugene]

Lift it in the car.

[Trevor Noah]

Always this guy, just when we need

[Eugene]

it, this guy

[M (Emon the Brain)]

next time, you know? But basically the way that you could think about it, right, is like, basically you have this ball and then you have, like yarn, like around the ball, right? And so it can either be the yarn can be tightly wound around the ball or loose. And basically, like, how tightly? If it's super tight and the, the yarn is your DNA.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay, go ahead.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

And so, you know, there are little proteins that come in and they read your DNA, and then when they read your DNA, they, they build proteins based off of what it reads, Right. If it's super tightly wound, it can't come in and read. And so no proteins are gonna be expressed or built off that DNA that's tightly wound because it can't be read.

[Eugene]

You're not open minded, right?

[M (Emon the Brain)]

So. Or you can literally, you can be openly wound, right? And then the proteins can come in and read your DNA and build proteins. Right. And so that's just one example. You know, it can be tight, more tightly round. We call it like methylated, phosphorylated. You know, there's all these.

[Trevor Noah]

I like tightly wound.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Yeah, there's all these different.

[Trevor Noah]

If they said tightly wound, I would have a degr. Methylated. No, guys, you'll find me in the streets.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Methylated, Phosphorylated. Yeah.

[Eugene]

You don't have to agree. Doesn't have to go home with this guy.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Yeah, probably.

[Trevor Noah]

But.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

But that's, you know, so. Yeah, and so that's kind of what I mean. So basically your environment, it. Basically it can. It can alter the. How tightly or loosely wound your DNA is and your environment. And this is like. Like the way your environment can actually impact which genes are expressed. So you're not changing your DNA. You have the same DNA, but it's like which proteins can be made based off of that.

[Trevor Noah]

Based off of your genes.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Right. And that is going to depend on a number of factors. Your environment is one of the mindsets.

[Trevor Noah]

If I was to use like a. This is a crazy.

[Eugene]

I kind of like you more now.

[Trevor Noah]

Crazy analogy.

[Eugene]

You're making it make sense.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

I like it.

[Trevor Noah]

That's what she does. Now you get it. Whoa. Crazy analogy that I would use.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

You should check out my content.

[Eugene]

I've never seen your content. I've. I've literally never seen your content. But now I understand.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

I feel like you would like it based on what you're talking about.

[Eugene]

Yes, you're making it. Sorry to cut you off there. There was this experiment, but not really an experiment, but people were comparing a generation of people in South Africa that were raised by grandmothers versus those that were raised by parents. No, no, no. Parents.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Eugene]

And going to crutch. Or kindergarten. Or kindergarten.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Eugene]

And they found that the ones that were raised by grandmothers had more independence, more empathy, and they were. They. They knew how to clean, to cook, to take care of everyone, and they were more patient. And the ones that went to kindergarten were more structured and institutionalized, and they believed that other things can be done by someone else. But those that were raised by grandmothers found that they also settled very early. They are very big on bonds and having. So it was a generational thing for people that grew up in the 80s and the 90s because kindergarten was not a thing. So usually we'd get shipped off to go live with our parents before we started school.

[Trevor Noah]

This is why I wanted you. You. You have once again inspired me to talk about my business that I want to launch. Yes, yes. My idea is we create old age homes that are kindergartens.

[Eugene]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

Because old people.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

They've done that.

[Trevor Noah]

Wait, they have.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

So they've done a research.

[Trevor Noah]

They stole my idea. Come on.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

So if. No, no. So they haven't done this for like as a business, so.

[Trevor Noah]

Oh, it's okay. My idea is still safe.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

No, but there is actually research to show your idea would work. If I'm clear on your idea.

[Trevor Noah]

This is why I need you in my life.

[Eugene]

And let me tell you, his idea is great.

[Trevor Noah]

You know how many times I say things to people and then they'll be like, I don't know if that. And if I had you around, you could be like, there's research to show. Bam. Not you. Bam. Bam. In general.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Yeah. So they took a bunch of old people and they put them in this house that was decorated like it was the 80s and like say music, like decorations, all of it. And they actually came out with biomarkers that showed that they had sort of reversed.

[Trevor Noah]

You get younger.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

I always say, like, like old, young people make old people younger. Just like their vibe. Whenever I see like grandparents and grandchildren together.

[Eugene]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

And then the, the inverse as well. I find like grandparents help young kids grow up with that. Like. So I've always thought, why do we put old people in an old age? Why do we like send them off to die?

[M (Emon the Brain)]

I completely agree.

[Trevor Noah]

Why don't we send them somewhere to live? And then why are we struggling with the kids? We should have told Zoran this. He wants child care in New York.

[Eugene]

Granny's. Yeah.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

Granny's. Yeah.

[Eugene]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

We could start like a whole thing. Granny's dot com. And then it's like a whole vibe.

[Eugene]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

And then you don't feel like your grandparents are just stranded and they get to see new life growing around them. And then the kids get to. That's why I'm going to give you percentage. You were here for this. And you're going to be handling our scientific division. And then Eugene, you'll be my spokesperson.

[Eugene]

Spokesperson.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Eugene]

How about R D?

[Trevor Noah]

No, no, no, no. What are you. What are you researching? What are you researching?

[Eugene]

You know that I thought I was R.

[Trevor Noah]

Don't go anywhere because we got more. What now? After this?

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Eczema is unpredictable. But you can flare less with epglis, a once monthly treatment for moderate to severe eczema. After an initial four month or longer dosing phase, about 4 in 10 people taking EBGLIS achieved itch relief and clear or almost clear skin at 16 weeks. And most of those people maintain skin that's still more clear at one year with monthly dosing.

[Pharmaceutical Ad Narrator]

Emplisk Lebricizumab a 250mg per 2ml injection is a prescription medicine used to treat adults and children 12 years of age and older who weigh at least 88 pounds or 40 kilograms with moderate to severe eczema, also called atopic dermatitis, that is not well controlled with prescription therapies used on the skin or topicals, or who cannot use topical therapies. EBGLIS can be used with or without topical corticosteroids. Don't use if you are allergic to ebglis. Allergic reactions can occur that can be severe. Eye problems can occur. Tell your doctor if you have not new or worsening eye problems. You should not receive a live vaccine when treated with Ebglis. Before starting Ebglis, tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Ask your doctor about ebgliss and visit ebgliss.lilly.com or call 1-800-lilyrx or 1-800-545-5979.

[Trevor Noah]

The following film is so intense, we are only allowed to advertise it for 15 seconds.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Excuse me.

[Trevor Noah]

Zussy Bates. They will kill you. Only in theaters March 27th. Radar this message is a paid partnership with Apple Card. Imagine this. You're at a checkout counter. You're ready to pay, when you realize you don't have your wallet. Dun, dun dun. You could drive all the way back home and you could get it. But you remember that you have your Apple card on your iPhone so you can tap to pay with Apple Pay. Imagine that. No need to carry a wallet. But you know, one of the things I do like about having my card on my phone is we live in a world where you lose your card and then you don't know where it is. And then you're like, what do I do? Well, if your phone is connected to your card and your card is connected to your phone, you know what's going on. The best thing about having the Apple card connected to your phone is, you know what every transaction is. You know, like sometimes you're like, what did I spend this month? The Apple card will show you. One month. I had spent an obscene amount of money ordering videos online.

[Eugene]

Just videos?

[Trevor Noah]

They were just videos.

[Eugene]

What kind of videos?

[Trevor Noah]

That's not the point. The point is, I knew that I didn't want to order those videos anymore because I'd spent too much money on was videos on how to not spend money online. I felt like I'd been duped. Point is, Apple showed me what I was spending my money on, and I was able to change my spending habits. And you can do it, too. I earn up to 3% daily cash back on every purchase with my Apple card. That's unlimited daily cash back no matter where I shop. Apply for Apple card in the wallet app on your iPhone subject to credit approval. Apple card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA, Salt Lake City branch terms and [e-mail]. So with your life. So you were talking about all these things and, and, and you were telling us how you started finding it change your life and how you applied it.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Way to bring that back.

[Trevor Noah]

Oh, I'm always, I'm always in. I'm locked in.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Yeah. And so I think it kind of began for me with, and my journey of really initially, the first step was understanding the brain. That was the first step, understanding the neuroscience of reality. We talked a little bit about the visual system, how you hear and understanding. And honestly, like the study that kind of changed the game for me whenever I was in undergrad was learning about this kitten experiment. It's a super classic experiment, like 1970. And they took these newborn kittens and they raised them in complete darkness, except for a few hours a day where they put one group, and they were alone, each of them individually alone, in a cylinder with only vertical black and white stripe lines. And they took different kittens, a different group, and they put them in a cylinder with only horizontal black and white stripe lines. They let their visual cortex develop. And then once they were fully developed or close to that, they put them in a normal everyday environment with everyday objects. And what they found was that the kittens that were only raised to ever see horizontal lines, they didn't respond normally to vertically shaped objects, vertical, like vertically oriented objects, like they would bump into table legs because they couldn't see them. And so their brain actually, you know, didn't put together that image because it wasn't raised to see that. And so I. And you know, and vice versa, with the kittens that were raised to only see vertical lines, they wouldn't jump up on tabletops and perch because they couldn't. They didn't really like, their brains didn't, you know, respond normally to horizontal objects. So I kind of just was sitting there like, damn, like, if these kittens are only really able to respond in a way that, in an accurate or appropriate way to things that they grew up seeing. What am I not seeing because of the way I was raised, right? Like what, like the jobs, like money, you know, opportunities, a relationship. Relationships especially, like we grew up seeing certain types of relationships between our parents, education, like, what am I missing? Now that is probably right in front of me. But my brain's not constructing that experience because it isn't programmed for it.

[Eugene]

It's not so obvious to you.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Right. And so that, I think, was, like, the one of the first realizations I had where I was like, okay, like, you know what I'm wanting my future to look like. If it's different than what my past has looked like, then I'm gonna have to change my brain so that I can construct that experience.

[Eugene]

It shows. Sorry. It shows this little gap that has become a huge crevice in society where science has replaced art because academia replaced art, because kids used to. It. Art used to be a way to measure who likes what. So now it became a thing of who can count, who can remember the best. And then you get channeled that way. But if you let how to draw and then building blocks. How do you see the world according to your eyes? Versus we're gonna sit you guys in

[Trevor Noah]

one room, show you the world, and

[Eugene]

we're gonna show you to calculate. And whoever remembers to calculate the best, the quickest. Yes. Is the one that progresses in life.

[Trevor Noah]

I never thought of art like, that's beautiful.

[Eugene]

Actually.

[Trevor Noah]

I genuinely never thought of art like that. It is the perfect petri dish to see how everyone else sees the world.

[Eugene]

The coloring book and the building blocks. Because remember how every kid used to remember this?

[Trevor Noah]

Like, we'd go. You'd go, I don't know if you did this. I used to see other kids coloring books, and I'd be like, why did you.

[Eugene]

Yeah, why do you use that color?

[Trevor Noah]

Why? Why would you use that color? I was just shocked at how we all had the same picture.

[Eugene]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

And everyone chose completely, and they're like, this is how I see the world.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

None of us even see color the same way.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah. That one's still.

[Eugene]

Or, remember the building blocks? You'd be like, what is that? They'll be like, it's a house. You'll be like, that doesn't look like.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Right. Well, that's why I always say, like, we also didn't even come to this planet to live in the same reality or experience the life the same. Like, we didn't come here getting hot now. We didn't. We didn't come here for that. Like, I actually had a dream about that recently because I was sitting here thinking, you know, I literally. A few weeks ago, I had a dream about this or maybe a couple months ago ago, where I was kind of like, how do I not care what other people think?

[Eugene]

Like, how?

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Like, how do you not care what other people say you should or shouldn't do. And then I literally had this dream about the neuroscience of reality and how no two people's brains are constructing the same experience. Right. Because your brain is what. What's constructing your experience? Not your eyes. We are. We've already discussed that. So it's like, okay, no two people are experiencing the same reality, therefore, how can you take anybody else's input it and apply it to your own life verbatim, word for word? It doesn't make sense. It's like trying to play Mario Kart with the rules of Call of Duty. You shouldn't do that. Like, so you're playing Call of Duty.

[Trevor Noah]

Dope game. I'm just gonna throw that out there. I'll also take shares in this one,

[M (Emon the Brain)]

but it would also.

[Trevor Noah]

I'll do R D on this one. I'm just gonna throw in before Eugene jumps in. Eugene, you're the spokesperson for this game as well, but.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Right. Like, you'd be really bad at that game. So why are you trying to play your game of life while taking somebody else's rules when they're playing an entirely different game? They don't live in the same video game or experience the same game that you do.

[Trevor Noah]

This is. Wow. There's two thoughts that I. I have when you're saying this. The first one is, and I'm sorry to do this to you, Eugene, but I think of.

[Eugene]

You've done worse.

[Trevor Noah]

I think of why VAR is so interesting in. In. In football, in soccer. So VAR video assistant referee is a. They had an American sports for a long time. I don't know why it took so long to get to soccer.

[Pharmaceutical Ad Narrator]

But.

[Trevor Noah]

But they'll. They'll pause the game at a crucial moment when there's, like, a big foul or a goal that was scored or not scored. Point is, people don't agree on what happened, and then they'll start replaying what happened from multiple different angles. And it's sort of what you're saying. I've watched myself, my friends, the commentators, and everyone who's observing this start to realize that their reality's changing depending on the perspective that they. So they'll go, that's definitely a foul. And they'll show you another angle, and you'll be like, it still looks like a foul. And they'll show you another angle. Then you're like, did he touch him?

[Eugene]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

And then the final angle, you're like, no, he didn't. He didn't touch him. And what you're just saying is sort of that is like, we're living in this world where we're all watching from our own camera angle and then we are going, why don't you think it's a foul? Yeah, why don't you think it's a foul? How can you say it's a foul and it's this? And then the second thought I was having just based around this is I go, so, you know, you're talking about a world where we're all not designed to have the same experience. Yeah. But doesn't that mean there's a huge swath of society that is always pushed to the fringes unless they are part of the monolithic experience? As somebody who is diagnosed with adhd. I've been diagnosed with adhd. Right. I've often felt like having adhd, there's nothing wrong with it. But you are in the wrong society and world right now because a lot of what the world is, is designed not for you.

[Eugene]

In the wrong timeline.

[Trevor Noah]

You really are.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

You're playing the wrong video game.

[Trevor Noah]

No, you really are. Yeah. Because I spoke to one. One therapist who was talking about how. And these are like hypotheses, but they said people with ADHD were probably really beneficial to a tribe and a society when you would go out, like, hunting together. Because some people really just need to focus on picking the berries. And some people need to be like, what's that? What's that? Do you guys hear that?

[Eugene]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

What's that? You guys hear that? But you can't all be going, what's that? What's that? Because then no one's going to focus on the berries.

[Eugene]

Yes.

[Trevor Noah]

And you can't all be focused on the berries because then no one's going like, yo, guys, did you hear that? What was that? What was that? Pattern recognition.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

So willing to go explore and be curious.

[Trevor Noah]

Exactly. And so you need all of these different minds doing and thinking different things so that we can all function together. But to sort of. What you're saying with Arts Academy, like the. And what you're saying now, aren't we creating a world where we're compressing everyone into one? We're going like, you all have to do this. All have to go to school at this time. All have to learn these subjects, all have to sit in an office. All.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

All we're trying to.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

That creates a lot of resistance.

[Eugene]

Yes. Yes. I've had this conversation with teachers at my daughter's school since she started high school. And all of it was if. If she really applied herself to the math and the Science. And I used to say to them, just relax. School fees will be paid. She will pass. You won't have to deal with her for long.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Just relax.

[Eugene]

And then the conversation, and then the conversation I'd have with her every time was, I don't want great grades. I want you to have the best time possible during this five years of high school. But just pass so I don't have to pay for it again. So that was the conversation for the longest time. And funny enough, I saw a tick tock of someone just the other day who posted all of their high school achievements.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, yeah.

[Eugene]

Their badges, their certificates and they go, in the real world, these count for nothing. It's like you have Monopoly money in the real world. So you've missed out on an entire five years of experiencing your growth and your fundamentals or how you would have been forming as a, as a young adult trying to achieve and impress people you'll never see again.

[Trevor Noah]

Well, it's funny you say that. I think people would are and would be shocked at how many of the biggest, most successful icons that they look up to never finished school. Do you know what I mean? So they'll be like, oh, yeah, Mark Zuckerberg, you know, Biggie is everywhere. And you're like, he didn't finish. They're like, what do you mean? He went to. Yeah, he went to the university and then he didn't finish. He left to do this thing that we call Facebook. What do you mean? Countless names where they go. They went to the university and then they dropped out and they started a business and they left. No, but to your point, yeah, absolutely. But we think that the one thing leads to the other. So we're living in this world where one thing leads to another. You're living in this world where one thing leads to another. What was the first breakthrough? I'd love to know. Even like on the ADHD side. Cause what you're saying to me sounds like a magic trick. Your brain can't focus. You know, you're stuck in loops.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

And now I'm in this place where I literally am writing a book right now, and I can go and sit for seven hours and focusing at all.

[Trevor Noah]

Let's walk through that. How do you get there? How on earth did you start? What was the first step?

[M (Emon the Brain)]

So like you said, it's been a journey over time. Like that's the way that neuroplasticity works. It's repetition over time. And so the beautiful thing about the brain is that it can change. And it does change. And So I think a lot of people now, it's not that they can't focus, it's that they have super well practiced distractions. And you get.

[Eugene]

You get really high definition LED television.

[Trevor Noah]

You can't just move on from that. Say that again, please.

[Eugene]

Mic drop moment.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

So a lot of people think that they can't focus or they're bad at focus, but really what it is is that they have super well practiced distraction.

[Eugene]

Remember I told you yesterday, I said if I didn't go fetch those sneakers at that time, it would have ruined my day.

[Trevor Noah]

But now. Okay, now think. I know we're gonna go on a tangent here, but I want you to help Eugenia on this.

[Eugene]

Actually, now we're going on a tangent.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, but I'm. I'm saying I'm acknowledging the tangent for this specific moment because this is about you now only. How. How would you have helped Eugene with this? So Eugene help tell the story and then. No, no, no.

[Eugene]

I want you.

[Trevor Noah]

Let's, let's. Here's an actual brain. Yeah, walk us through the story. What happened?

[Eugene]

So I ordered these sneakers online.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay.

[Eugene]

And then they arrived. But I didn't think. I didn't. I didn't count for how far they were in my head. I was like a six and a half kilometers matters. I can probably make it. But we had this as well to do. So I spent an hour thinking, if I go there, then I'll save myself all the grief of thinking about going there while I'm doing this.

[Trevor Noah]

But. So basically. But also, you're leaving out the most important thing you told me.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

You're leaving out a lot of details.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah. Yeah, details, Eugenie.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Okay, how much time did we.

[Trevor Noah]

I'm gonna tell you. No, I'm gonna tell you the story. I'm gonna tell you the story. This is what happened to Eugene.

[Eugene]

Are you here to convict me?

[M (Emon the Brain)]

No, I'm like, for all I know, it's 10 minutes before you got to be here and you're talking about travel

[Trevor Noah]

on all the way to Brooklyn. So let me explain. Let me explain what happened here. It was Brooklyn.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

So we were talking about it before we started.

[Trevor Noah]

So let me explain.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

That's how much on his mind this event.

[Trevor Noah]

So I'll explain what happened, cuz my friend told it to me. So what happened was Eugene ordered sneakers. The only location that would have the sneakers was in Brooklyn. Eugene was in Manhattan. Eugene looked up where the store is. He was like, oh, I got to get this. It's near the Barkley Center. Google Maps told him how long it could take to get there. Eugene was like, I think I can do this now. The time was going to be, like, super tight, but he's like, I can do it. I get there, and then I spend, like, 26 minutes getting there, and then I'll spend two minutes buying the shoes. Because how long does it take to buy the shoes? Yeah, you just got to pick them up. And then I got. Got to get back in the car, and then I come back to Manhattan, and then I've got the thing now. I was like, but Eugene wouldn't. Isn't that going to be stressful? Then you just said, no, if I didn't go pick up the shoes, I would have been more stressed about the shoes the whole day. So when we were recording an episode of the podcast, I'd be like, I can't. I can't even think about anything, Trevor. Cause all I'm thinking about is those shoes. And while I'm talking to the guests, I'd be like, shoes, shoes, shoe, shoe, shoes. What time does the shoe place? Close to shoes.

[Eugene]

No.

[Trevor Noah]

Then he. So he went and he got the shoes first, right? No, he made it. But it was a stress stress. So now I would like you to explain one stress for another from a brain perspective.

[Eugene]

No relief whatsoever.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

I'm like.

[Eugene]

I was like, go to war or stay married.

[Trevor Noah]

Whoa. So, so help us.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

It was one stress for another because you sat there overthinking for a period of time, and then you were. You had less time to go and actually do it. And when were you stressed on your

[Trevor Noah]

journey and you were stressed about getting to the podcast?

[Eugene]

Just on my journey, going there. It was just coming back. But in my head, I was like, that stress compared to the stress of the whole entire day of not having issues.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Because when would you have been able to get them if you didn't go, Right?

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

I'm asking you.

[Trevor Noah]

No, any other day.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Any other day.

[Trevor Noah]

Any other day is the answer. And by the way, I'm not judging you, because I, too, have. You know, I didn't even once. Even.

[Eugene]

Never. You never did.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Well, what were you guys doing before this? Because you were late today.

[Trevor Noah]

So this. This was. This was all on me. This is not ice cream. This is not him.

[Eugene]

Tell the story.

[Trevor Noah]

This is not him at all. This is not him at all.

[Eugene]

You're a therapist now.

[Trevor Noah]

This is not him at all.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Oh. Well, my point is, though, I'm just gonna tell you. I have.

[Trevor Noah]

I'm just gonna tell you.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Okay.

[Trevor Noah]

I'm just gonna tell you.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

You said it was technical difficulty.

[Trevor Noah]

Let me, let me. So let me tell you. No, but I wouldn't throw you under the bus. I would never do that to you.

[Eugene]

Why are you this person? Go ahead.

[Trevor Noah]

So there's a, There's a technical. There's a part of the podcast that I specifically like to be a part of. Like, it comes to like, you know, when we're working with the transcriptions of the podcast, what's happening with like the, the titles on YouTube. Like, I, I like to be involved. Yeah, many of the geeky parts. Right. So what I'll often do is I sit there with my laptop or my iPad and I go through the thing and I do it. Then I do it. Da, da, da, da, da. Long story short, the program that I use didn't want to work for the episode that we were doing because we had multiple Africans on the same episode. Now, I'm not blaming the racism of technology in this. I'm just explaining to you what happened. But it could not, for the life of it discern between the Africans. Sometimes it couldn't even say what language they were speaking. They were speaking English, by the way. Way. Now, in. In the program's defense, in the program's defense, one of our friends says, like, walk instead of work. And he says like swatfish.

[Eugene]

But that's Joe Swordfish.

[Trevor Noah]

But that's Joe. In his head he sounds like Hugh Grant. You'll understand this when you listen to the episode. All of this will make sense. All of this will. I'm also not blaming Joe for, for how Joe is, but because we needed that. And the whole process relies on me doing that part. Then I was like, like, we needed, we needed, we needed. Then I'm like, ah, like, I'm like a hacker. Like, give me 10, I gotta get. In 10 minutes. Get, get. I gotta get. Give me five more minutes. I got.

[Eugene]

And.

[Trevor Noah]

And so, and so that's the thing. But I want you to first fix the shoes thing.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Well, it's the same thing though, right? So you. I have a thing.

[Trevor Noah]

How did you fix it?

[M (Emon the Brain)]

I don't really.

[Eugene]

Wait, let's hear what it is first.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Yeah, so my thing is I don't like to rush. I don't like to rush because when you're, when you put, when you rush, you're in fight or flight. And then death boost cortisol, and that actually makes you dumber. So if you're sitting there right before this episode and you're trying to figure it all out, now all of a sudden you're stressed about figuring it out. That actually makes you less able to figure it out because you're turning down activity in your prefrontal cortex and raising activity in your amygdala. Now you're in fight or flight, scanning for threats, and you're not really in a position mentally to figure it out. That's why when you're in a rush, you spill your drink or you forget your keys, you drop things, right? You're not working at optimal performance.

[Trevor Noah]

Can I throw something at you that might. It's based on what you told me about the kittens, though. Only because you told me the kitten story. What if I grew up in a life that was so stressed and so high paced that that's actually when I'm the most relaxed? Because I'm. I've lived in horizontal lines, sort of like matching. So I'm like the op. What if I'm the opposite? Like, I can. I become smarter. I. I can move better. I can. Like. I don't spill my drink. I don't bump into anything. I don't miss. I don't miss a plane. I don't like. You've seen me in an airport.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

You thrive in that.

[Trevor Noah]

Let me tell you something.

[Eugene]

Made us drive.

[Trevor Noah]

Like, if is going down and you need to rush, it's you.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

You're the guy.

[Trevor Noah]

You call this guy here. Nothing will get forgotten. Nothing will do. You know when I've forgotten things is when I had copious amounts of time. And I mean copious amounts of time. I was going to a friend's wedding recently. Em, when I tell you I had time. Pack the suitcase two days before, I was like, you know what?

[Eugene]

You.

[Trevor Noah]

Let's not rush.

[Eugene]

Two days before.

[Trevor Noah]

Imagine you know me, my friend.

[Eugene]

Sound like suicide.

[Trevor Noah]

Exactly.

[Eugene]

Not. You're gonna not come back ever.

[Trevor Noah]

I was like, you know what? I'm gonna pack this. I want to be so. Cuz I didn't want to rush. I'm gonna pack the suitcase, I'm gonna prepare everything, put the shoes in, put the. The tuxedo, the thing, you name it. I was like, I got this. I'm gonna be so. Because I don't want anything to go wrong. I was like, you know what? Let.

[Eugene]

Okay.

[Trevor Noah]

Not that things go wrong. I was like, I don't want anything to go wrong.

[Eugene]

Let me try this thing.

[Trevor Noah]

So let me do this thing.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

But you're focused on things going wrong. When you're thinking about how to go wrong.

[Trevor Noah]

This is why you're around. This is great, by the way. So I was like, you know what?

[Eugene]

You know what, you might have you manifested calamity.

[Trevor Noah]

So I was like, let me, let me just do this. Packed everything, got there wedding, you know, on, you name it. The night before I'm hanging up all my clothes, putting everything up. I had jackets, I had shirts, I had no bottoms.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

You didn't pack any bottoms.

[Trevor Noah]

So you, you know, you got all

[M (Emon the Brain)]

the way there and you didn't pack any bottoms.

[Trevor Noah]

Let me tell you so because the pants went off for tailoring sense. Now the pants went off for tailoring. They came in a different bag and I put the bags and I was so comfortable and calm when I was doing the thing. But when I normally pack, I fly in and I sing a song and I'm like flying through boots. I'm like, your shoes got your socks and then your socks got your pants and then underwear, pants got you underwear, underwear, shirt and then your shirt got

[M (Emon the Brain)]

your jacket and your jacket.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, every time. I've never left anything behind. I've never been a person who's like, no, I didn't bring my toothbrush. No, I'll nail it. So I, and I mean this honestly.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Okay, well that's completely different.

[Trevor Noah]

So could I have like the opposite brain of yes, you could.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

But also what you're describing is completely different. What you're describing is why athletes are way better at shooting free throws when they're not thinking about it versus whenever they're thinking about it and they have time, then they miss. Right. Because you have it saved in muscle memory and you're trying to introduce conscious thought into something that you shouldn't.

[Trevor Noah]

I'm a packing athlete. Yeah, you heard it here first. There's this famous don't come here with no casual packing.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Exactly.

[Trevor Noah]

Packing athletes.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

But you did that. You did that. You came through with some casual packing and that's what you did.

[Eugene]

You know, I'm so grateful for your presence here.

[Trevor Noah]

Wait, wait.

[Eugene]

Before many reasons.

[Trevor Noah]

Before you go on this, this, I want you to now go with Eugene's one.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

By the way, diagnosed Trevor.

[Trevor Noah]

I've experienced Eugene's one. So I want you to talk us through cuz I, I think a lot of people will relate to this, help us understand Eugene's thing and how would

[M (Emon the Brain)]

you have co. Did we finish Eugene's situation?

[Trevor Noah]

No, because. Yes, because he had the shoes. He was five. But then as he said he introduced. He swapped one stress for another.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

So what was the other stress?

[Eugene]

So the one, the other stress would be I'd be sitting here and then when the guest is talking, I'd Be thinking, you know, this 30 minutes.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

What was this?

[Eugene]

Exactly how long it takes to get to Brooklyn.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

But what was the stress Stress that you swapped it for? What ended up being the stress?

[Eugene]

Oh, the stress was, are we gonna make it on time? The driver is driving too slow. Why is the school bus in front of us? Why is there traffic?

[Trevor Noah]

Why the school bus when you're late?

[M (Emon the Brain)]

How long did you wait to make that decision to send it?

[Eugene]

Almost an hour.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Oh. So, I mean, I think, you know, I. I was saying this before we started recording that I don't negotiate with my. And so you don't.

[Trevor Noah]

What does that mean?

[M (Emon the Brain)]

I don't. Like, for example, you're sitting there going back and forth. Like, do I want to go get it?

[Eugene]

I do that.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

I. I just make a decision. I don't like to waste time.

[Trevor Noah]

And. But why. What is the. What is the thinking behind this?

[M (Emon the Brain)]

I think it's exactly what happened to Eugene. Right? So he wasted an hour just going back and forth, and then that he had doubled the amount of stress because not only was he overthinking a situation, then he was also stressed about having less time to do it.

[Trevor Noah]

Right.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

So. So again, kind of similar to where I was thinking, where I have this thought process of what who do? Like, when I visualize my best favorite self. Who, What. Who are they? What are their habits? Like, what is their mindset? Like, what are their beliefs like in this situation? It's like, okay, when I visualize myself tomorrow or myself later today, like, or my best favorite self, what. What. What does she do? Like, how does she act? She doesn't sit here going back and forth. Should I go get it? Should I not? It's my podcast. If I want to go get shoes, I'm going to go get the shoes. And if I'm going to be 10, 15 minutes late, I'm going to be 10, 15 minutes late. And I'm not really going to. I'm not really going to stress about it. And that's why I said, like, I don't like to rush. Like, if I'm going to be. That doesn't mean that I give myself ample time all the time. I don't always have ample time. And sometimes I am five minutes late. I'm kind of chronically five minutes late to everything. I wasn't today, but I am. But that's because I wasn't alone. Right. So he's on time. And so. And so, yeah, I think when I think about that, if I were in your shoes, and I'm like, this is

[Eugene]

something that I want my shoes, by

[M (Emon the Brain)]

the way, from the beginning you had ample time. If you didn't waste an hour thinking you could have gone there and back and not been stressed at all. If it's something that you want to do that's going to make you happier and that joy is the best performance enhancing drug ever. So if I'm going to go get these shoes and make myself, I'm wearing my boots. You guys both said you like my boots.

[Trevor Noah]

We both said we liked your boots. They are dope boots.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

And when you, you are feeling like your best self, then you actually perform better. Right. Joy enhances your performance.

[Eugene]

And I knew em that those shoes would do that for me.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Exactly.

[Eugene]

We had two back to backs.

[Trevor Noah]

You came, you came in with swag. I won't lie. I knew you just had like a vibe about you. What you just said, you see now coming back to. So if you just hear it on the woo woo side of things, people will go like, visualize your best self. Think about who you want to be. And then I've seen a lot of people and I've probably been one of them at some point who goes, oh come on, you just visualize your best self. And if you could, then you would.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

And then you're teaching your brain how to act in situations in life. That's why identity shifting is so powerful.

[Trevor Noah]

So I read, I read a paper that was written about athletes the other day and this was an interesting, I'm not even sure that it was a study per se, but it was a really interesting article that I read and it talked about the difference between like elite athletes and just athletes who are good by the fact that they are athletes. Right. And it said the difference between the athletes wasn't necessarily the fact that one group was nervous and the other group wasn't nervous in a high stress situation. The difference was the one group who were the elite athletes were able to visualize themselves overcoming the obstacle that they knew was incoming and the other group could only focus on the obstacle itself.

[Eugene]

Yes.

[Trevor Noah]

And so you watch, you know, LeBron James, you watch a, you know, an Erling Haaland, you watch a, you know, whoever it is, you know, Saquon, Barkley, Eugene, Fine. But like you watch any of these, these people, you know, whoever it is, and you go, wait, how, how are they doing that in those moments? And it seems like what you're just saying they are able to visualize themselves doing the thing that they haven't done yet. And then that what we'd say Magically or scientifically means that they're more able to realize it. Help me understand that it trains the

[M (Emon the Brain)]

premotor area of the brain. Okay, so your problem yesterday was that you were focused on the problem and not how the best version of you moves through situations. And so, so there's. I actually just filmed my own podcast episode on this and it's like three of my favorite different types of visualization.

[Trevor Noah]

But what's the podcast called? By the Planet M. Planet M. I love it.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Welcome to my world. And so, and so the one type of visualization I talked about though was sort of like resilience training visualization. And this is exactly what we're talking about. So. And it's what athletes use NASA, like astronauts at NASA use this. And it's basically the process of visualizing yourself on the path toward achieving or doing whatever it is, but kind of facing challenges as the best version of you. And so you start out in this visualization, sort of just identifying who that is. And then you can bring up a challenge. Like, for example, you could do this, bring up the challenge from yesterday, start your visualization with your favorite version of you, the best version of you, and then bring up the situation that happened yesterday. And then you watch as that version of you moves through, through that situation. And you can do this for so many different things. You can use this as confidence training. If there are things that if like as a creator for a while, like certain comments would get to me, visualizing my best self, reading those comments and how she would react to them trained my brain to react in a way that is aligned with who I'm wanting to become.

[Trevor Noah]

You're becoming your own role model. Essentially.

[Eugene]

It's because I, I have this theory that in a meditative state, when you are doing a mantra etc, you're basically doing a simulation of something that will happen in the future. So when you face that situation, like the athletes and high stressful, they've already

[M (Emon the Brain)]

done this, they've already faced it. You know, like a challenge is only difficult when it's like not only difficult, but it's a lot harder the first time you do it right? And then the second time, third time, fourth time you face it, it's not even a challenge anymore. It's just like, oh yeah, this is just one of those obstacles you just got to go through. And if that's what happens when you visualize your best self going through it. And also you're sort of preparing yourself for it and how you want to act, if you don't do that, then you are just putting yourself in a position to allow your default mode or your subconscious to react to a situation. But when you take the time to visualize and kind of practice the way that you would. Would want to react, then you're going to react in that, in real life in a way that you actually feel proud of.

[Eugene]

Rather than pilots simulator jets.

[Trevor Noah]

Right?

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Right.

[Eugene]

You have to crash the real plane in a relaxed state. You're flying using all the gizmos, all the buttons.

[Trevor Noah]

You simulated a crash.

[Eugene]

Simulated the crash.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah. You've simulated a nose dive. Simulated. Stimulated.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Right. So do it.

[Trevor Noah]

So what is that? Help me understand what, what that's actually doing in your brain now. Like, is it, is it because you spoke earlier about, like, tunnel vision, for instance? So help me understand what some of these things are causing in us as people that we don't realize our brains are doing to us.

[Eugene]

Please splice that with the concept of time as well, added in there. All right, I won't interrupt you for a long time.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

So, I mean, there, there are many different, different points here. So when we are kind of practicing, what we're doing really is just practicing, right? We're practicing facing challenges. We're just like an athlete. We're practicing, you know, what happens if somebody runs up on us and we have the ball? What are we going to do? We're just practicing that. And so the same way that you want to practice free throws, you want to practice facing challenges. And so you're just, you're just activating those pathways in your brain. Like, if I'm visualizing my best self reading those comments moments, I'm just practicing and training my brain to react in a way that I would want to react. So you're just activating those pathways. Like, the way that visualization works is a lot of the time, especially when it's highly vivid and you're using imagery and context, your environment, the emotional state, your brain doesn't necessarily differentiate between what you're seeing, like what through our eyes and what we're imagining in our head. And if you, you think about, like, what I talked about, how your brain constructs everything you see, it's no different because your eyes don't see it anyway. Your brain's constructing everything you see. So what's the difference between your eyes being closed or open? It's the same. You're seeing it in your head and it's being constructed in, by your brain either way. And so what's happening, for example, especially with kind of motor activities, like in Athletes, they're really training the pre motor area of the brain. And the motor area is what sends the signals, right? So the motor area is what tells my hand to pick up this cup and take a drink. The premotor area is what plans the movement. And so what you're doing when you visualize this is you are training your brain to plan the reaction, plan the movement better. So that way, when you actually are facing the situation in real life, your brain already knows the plan. But what happens when you are in it in real life and you haven't done this and you haven't ever thought about it, then there's no plan. And your brain is going to go based off of an old version of you, a past version of you. Especially if it's a stressful situation and you're in fight or flight, then you're kind of right. And what's going to happen is it's really just your subconscious sort of programming from the past that's doing the reacting, that's doing the responding. It's not, it's not a conscious response or a plan. It is just sort of you reacting in real time based on old programming that you may or may not want to be, you know, directing your behaviors.

[Trevor Noah]

Right?

[M (Emon the Brain)]

And so, I mean, the perception of time thing here, I don't know necessarily how that's gonna fit into the story.

[Eugene]

You'll make it better.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

But I mean, actually I could, I could. So, I mean, conscious awareness and having this plan does dilate time. And so when you are present, you have more time to respond versus and also, right. If you've practiced the response, if you've practiced the situation, if you've been here before, whether it's in real life or in your imagination, then you're not going to have the same stress response that you would. If you've practiced it and you've been here before, right? Then you're. You're going to feel more present, more calm. When you're feeling present or, and, or calm, then time dilates, you have more time to respond. Rather than being like, oh my God, I have, you know, just reacting, then you're going to be able to sit back and respond in a way and observe, right? That feels more conscious. And so. And then to bring in sort of the tunnel vision piece that you asked about, if you are in your situation where the shoe situation and you are stressed and you're limited on time and you're like, I don't know what to do, and you're in this fight flight, freeze my brain's not really thinking super straight. Clearly. What you get is tunnel vision because stress. If you think about the saying deer in headlights, headlights, they're in fight or flight. Deer in headlights, they're frozen. They're. They have extreme tunnel vision. They can't, they're, they're not looking around at the possibilities of what's going on.

[Eugene]

They are looking at the other deer going.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

They're, they're, they can only see the problem that's right in front of them. Right. That's what happens when you're stressed. When your nervous system goes into fight or flight. You are that deer in headlights. You can only see the problem. You're not putting your brain in a position to scan for all the different. You're not thinking logically and solution based and open to different possibilities or other ways of thinking. That's not, that's not the state that your nervous system is in. Your nervous system is in a state of. This is this situation at hand. This is the problem. We need to think about this problem.

[Eugene]

I don't know what to do.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

And we don't know what to do. But your brain's not, we don't have the program. Your brain's not in the position to even think about other, other avenues or what to do, other paths. It's. It's not even in the position. And so that's when you're in, in the situation you're in where you sit there for an hour debating and negotiating with yourself and you're not ever coming to a real solution. It's because. And, but, and maybe the way that you want to go about this next time is to stop for five minutes and take some deep breaths, calm your nervous system. And then you would have been able to make a really educated decision based on your position.

[Trevor Noah]

You know, what you think of the deer in the headlights thing. Just when, yeah. The way you break it down, I

[Eugene]

go,

[Trevor Noah]

the deer's never in that position when it's being chased by a predator.

[Eugene]

Never.

[Trevor Noah]

Do you know what I'm saying?

[Eugene]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

There's no deer that's like, oh, a wolf. No, it runs it immediately to your point because it has so much time to learn from the time it was like a calf and all the way through. It's like it's sort of simulated and it's learned and it's practiced and it's learned and it's practiced and it's learned and it's practice. But the car is a new thing in its world for the most part. So it's just like, wait, what is. It's a new idea that it has never stimulated. That's. When you put it that way.

[Eugene]

It's amazing.

[Trevor Noah]

I would love for you. No, I remember one of you. I remember one of your. One of your videos that really, really touched me was when you were talking about how the brain, the mind, and these learnings apply to love and how we process relationships. And I remember this. You know, at the time I was reading a lot about attachment theory. I was listening to people's stories. Even in therapy. I was talking about, like, how do I process what a relationship could or could not be based on the relationships I've seen or have not seen? What are the triggers that I think of that another person wouldn't? And what are the things I'm missing that another person wouldn't? And then you. You shared, like a beautiful story of your journey with love, talking about this, seeing what we couldn't see before, or learning to not see what we didn't need to see before. Walk me through this and help me understand how you got to the beautiful place that you're in now.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Yeah, if I'm understanding your. If I'm understanding your question.

[Trevor Noah]

Well, I remember. Cause you had this video, and I mean, this was like years ago, I think, but you were talking about

[Eugene]

the

[Trevor Noah]

brain and people saying, for instance, oh, I'm lonely. There's no one out there. You never meet anyone, you don't see anyone, and no one sees me and blah, blah. And then you shared your own personal story. I remember at the time talking about how you changed something, and I'm forgetting the exact details, but you worked on changing something about how you were perceiving your world, and it opened up opportunities for love to come into your life. But you were like, the world didn't change. It's just how you were perceiving and presenting in the world. Can you explain that?

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Yes, I understand now. So it's not necessarily about relationships alone. This is just about life in general. And it all goes back to the kittens, right?

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

The kitten couldn't see the table leg or respond to a table leg normally because it had only ever seen horizontal lines. Now, I grew up not necessarily seeing a relationship like what a healthy, you know, romantic relationship looked like. And I. I didn't like. So my brain didn't know how to filter for that. Right. My brain didn't know and still is, learning how to, you know, filter for that and feel safe in that as well. Right. Because you just got done that. You feel safe. What you described really is like, does my brain have this opposite. What you're describing is your brain feels safe in those chaotic environments.

[Trevor Noah]

It's familiar, right? Yeah.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

And so. So your brain, like. And so I. You. I had to teach my brain, right? Like, what to even look for. Like, what does that look like? Like, what does a healthy, loving relationship look like? And. And can. And also feel safe in that. And that started with myself, like, having that relationship with myself.

[Trevor Noah]

In what way?

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Sort of treating myself like I was my dream partner. Partner. Like, I would walk around calling myself babe and like, oh, like, oh, no. Like, literally, I remember sitting down and maybe the video you're talking about is. I remember sitting down to record a video and I was like, oh, like, you need some better lighting, honey. And like. And I. And I remember think getting up and I'm like, wow. Like, I really talk to myself, like, how I would want my dream partner to talk to myself. And it really just boils down to treating myself how I would want to be treated. Right. And so. And having that, like, dream relationship, like, do I want to be taken out on dates? Am I taking myself out on dates? Do I feel safe in that? Or am I going to reject that? Because my nervous system doesn't feel safe in that. Because it doesn't ever experience that. Your nervous system feels safest with whatever it's experiencing, whether it's what you want or not. Simulation, whether it's what you want or not. Right. So you. You can sit around all day asking for certain things, but if you've never experienced them, then your brain is not going to experience those things as feeling safe. It's going to feel unpredictable. And unpredictability feels unsafe to the brain. So you got to make what you want predictable, Right. By showing it more of that or normalizing what you want. And there's so many different ways to do that, like visualization. But also, for example, when I was wanting to buy a house, like, let me go drive through this one neighborhood in the mountains in Arizona with all these beautiful homes to show my brain this, to normalize it. Right. So many different ways. And then the other piece that you were kind of getting at as well was. Yeah, I used to say this all the time. Oh, dating sucks in my city.

[Eugene]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Everybody says that. And I've lived in many different cities. We went. We were. I was talking for probably 30 minutes before you guys got here about all the different places I've lived. And I would say it everywhere I lived. Oh, whether it was in the small town where I did the PhD or whether it was the big city when I lived in Miami, you know, no matter where it was. Oh, dating sucks in my city or whatever. And I hear people say that all the time. Time. And your. That's sort of a belief, right? It is an instruction to your brain. Your brain filters your reality or remember, it constructs everything that you see based on your beliefs.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Based on what you know or think to be true. And so if you. The person, your dream person could be right in front of you, but you won't see them because you don't believe that dating is good in your city. You think it sucks in your city. And so this guy.

[Eugene]

You made up your mind, right?

[M (Emon the Brain)]

And so this guy, I could come right up to you and offer to buy you a coffee at the coffee shop.

[Trevor Noah]

Says who? You've always got a chance with me, Eugene.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

And. And, but, but also like taking the stress thing into account as well, right? Like, especially add stress on top of that. If you're. If you're in fight or flight or stressed and you walk around throughout your day stressed out, then again, your brain's not going to be filtering for the dream partner or the job. And I've had people. Someone came to one of my master classes while once, and he said he had been looking for a job for two years. And within two weeks after the class, he got his dream job. And nothing changed in his world. Like nothing changed in the physical world. What changed was in him, his beliefs.

[Trevor Noah]

It's not magic.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

No, it is. It is.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, but I mean, it's not.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

I do believe it.

[Trevor Noah]

But I mean, this is what I mean by it's. It's not. Magic is. It's not. It's not something that's inexplainable is what I mean.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Yes, it is. I do want to pause, though, and say that there are things that are unexplainable.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

And I believe in that as well. So, I mean, that's a whole other conversation. And I do believe in things that are unexplainable. Like science is a lens through which you can look at life. It's not the only lens through which you should look at life. And if you're only looking at life through one or two lenses, then you're missing out on a ton. So I. But I do appreciate when you can explain these sorts of things with neuroscience, because. Yeah, it makes it feel, like, real and super understandable and also actionable. Right. Because it goes from life feeling random to all of a sudden, oh, wait, now I can have control over this situation. I'm not seeing the relationship that I want. I'm not getting the job that I want. Oh, maybe my. Maybe it's there. It is there. Like it's there. The money, the job, opportunities. The world is so abundant with so many different things. But you have to believe that, and you have to move through life with that belief in knowing otherwise you're going to turn down opportunities or you might just not even see that them. You won't even apply for the job because you won't think that you'll get it right. It's just there's so many different ways that your brain will hold you back.

[Eugene]

What you're saying is so key because I was actually telling him and said, I want to show him my diary from about six years ago. This was the hardest time of my life. And I started reading these books and I got into it. I started listening to these podcasts. And what I started making a choice of was simulation or assimilating. So if I had assimilated, I would just car it on. On with people around me and what they do. In that case, it would have been comedy. But in my simulation, in my mind, in my meditation, I knew what I wanted to do and I knew where I wanted to do it. So I started to write it down. But the next step from writing it down was to visualize, have visual references of it. So I started having screensavers of the city that I wanted to do this thing at on my phone. Then the next step was I would say, I want to be paid in this currency. Then I would start saying that over and over again and remember I could assimilate or I could be in this simulation. And slowly the simulation started feeling normal and normal and normal. Then I realized if I want to hear this being said, I must say to myself, then I'll take everything that I wrote down and I would say it in the mirror. Then I was like, yeah, I can hear it. The vibration thing that you said makes sense. I could hear it. I could hear. I could hear it. The more I said it. When I sleep, I'll dream about it. And was that it took five years.

[Trevor Noah]

Years.

[Eugene]

The five years the opportunity happened in exact the same place, in exactly the same way, in exactly the same currency that I'd written down. And I'd written down dates on the. On the diary. And I think I've told you about this before.

[Trevor Noah]

You did.

[Eugene]

And I even so a. In the same year, I done a. A reading with a medium who said exactly the Same things that I'd written down as my thoughts and as my visualization. And when I asked her, she said, remember that as a medium am. I'm not saying anything that's not in your reality. I'm just basically reminding you and giving you cues and clues of what to follow and what parts. But it seems like if you've written it down already, you remember it quite well. And what you're saying makes sense. Because when you try to explain to someone, and that's where I find with people who are gifted, who are talented, naturally talented at something, trying to explain their success, I often think you're cheating someone who's facing the same conundrum of the real experience. Work hard, do this, do that. No, it's sometimes just thinking about the thing that you want to do and actually thinking and thinking and thinking and visualizing it. And those small neurological pathways start becoming little footpaths, and then they become little two lanes. Then all of a sudden they become freeways. And you become a master at weaving your wand and creating your reality. And that's what I think is missing.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Yeah. And I think, and don't get me wrong, I'm all for working hard. I wouldn't be where I am if I didn't work hard. But I think you. When you have the mindset piece and then. And you wire your brain to align with what you're working hard for, that's when you become unstoppable. And that's when it's inevitable and it's gonna happen no matter what. Right? But if you're working so hard and your brain isn't wired in alignment with what you're working hard for, then you're just. You're. You're gonna.

[Trevor Noah]

Just.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

You're beating a brick wall. It's when. When you. That's when you start to face all this resistance. And, I mean, there's so much research that shows, you know, like, mindset and belief in yourself is a bigger predictor of success than talent or. But yeah, and it's, It's. It's so important. Like, I. And I've been asked many times, like, when. What was the thing that you think really shifted your life? And when did you start to really, like, feel different and do different and be different? And it was when I had this crazy. I mean, I had a crazy DMT experience, but I. It really opened me up to the spiritual world, but also, like, to start believing in myself. And when I started believing in myself, everything changed. Like, I became unstoppable, and it didn't matter what happened. Right. Because the tests are going to come, the trials, the tribulations, the challenges, the things are going to happen. But when you have that belief in yourself, it's like you keep going and you keep. And belief in yourself improves your performance.

[Eugene]

Yeah.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

It's a biological advantage to believe in yourself.

[Eugene]

So my DMT experience was ayuasca. What was yours?

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Dmt?

[Eugene]

Yeah. So you took it orally. How did you do it?

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Out of a crack pipe? Well, it. It found me.

[Eugene]

I can tell you something. I didn't think you'd have to expect that twice.

[Trevor Noah]

Twice in the history of this podcast. Way more crack than I thought would be on this podcast. I'm not going to lie. If you ask me about my journal from years ago, I can safely say I did not write that.

[Eugene]

You know, judging of our races, people

[Trevor Noah]

would just, like, someone would expect that

[Eugene]

ayahuasca from you and crack from Trevor.

[Trevor Noah]

I from you.

[Eugene]

Cheat it.

[Trevor Noah]

You got me.

[Eugene]

You got me.

[Trevor Noah]

You already threw meth my way. I've got only. I can only have one.

[Eugene]

Okay, okay, I'll take.

[Trevor Noah]

I can only have one.

[Eugene]

You take the crack pipeline, you take ayahuasca.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Okay, perfect. Yeah. I mean, no, it definitely found me. I didn't go seeking it, but it changed my life and it really taught me. It changed my meditative, my meditation practice forever. Like, I. To this day, I have this lightning bolt that strikes through me and my whole body's vibrating and I'm divinely guided and protected and charged up and electrocuted by the divine. So, I mean, it changed my life. But also going into the PhD, this happened right before I, like, went into the PhD and I just went. And with this, like, such a. Such a deep trust and surrender to the flow of life. And I had trust and surrender written on sticky notes, like, all over my apartment when I first got there.

[Trevor Noah]

And what does that do for you, by the way?

[M (Emon the Brain)]

To surrender.

[Trevor Noah]

No, no, when you. When you write, because I've seen you talk about that. What is that doing to. To the brain or to our minds when we, like, write something and put it everywhere and just constantly see it?

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Well, so writing it down activates those, is similar to affirmations. So just the act of writing down an affirmation actually has been shown to activate reward pathways in the brain which boost dopamine. So it makes you feel good in the moment. Moment. But also it just serves. I mean, it serves as a visual cue and reminder every time you look at it, which activates that pathway in your Brain every time you look at it. And then that pathway becomes through Hebb's law, neurons that fire together, wire together. The more often that you activate the pathway, the stronger it becomes. And then it can become your dominant way of thinking, feeling and acting. Right. It becomes your default mode, which explains

[Eugene]

calligraphy and rock art throughout the ancient times.

[Trevor Noah]

Right.

[Eugene]

If it's written down and it's there and it's beautiful, you're meditating while writing. So it means you believe in.

[Trevor Noah]

It goes into the.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

I'm a big fan of handwriting, especially affirmations like for. For example, I do this identity shifting visualization. I like to write down who I saw by hand. It actually it improves your ability to remember whatever it is versus typing. Our brain didn't evolve to type.

[Trevor Noah]

Yes. Yeah, that's writing a bio.

[Eugene]

This motion versus.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Yeah, I also just see like especially journaling by hand. I, I notice patterns thinking and I get ideas for content and stuff like that. Way more than if I'm typing.

[Trevor Noah]

Let's talk a little bit about psychedelics in general. Over the past, let's say five years and maybe a decade, I've noticed science slowly opening up and being allowed to open up to like in its defense, you know, cause the US government changes and you see these things changing around the world. But we've seen a shift now in how people treat even the conversation around psychedelics where once it was considered, you know, like this hippie thing that'll just destroy your life, et cetera, et cetera. Now we've seen, you know, the government doing tests around like MDMA therapy and what it could do for veterans and looking at psychedelics and how terminal cancer patients completely subvert how they feel about the possibility of dying when they've now consumed psilocybin or, or people on dmt, ayahuasca, etc. What do you think? Or what have you seen that has sort of like opened up a different area of how we see the brain and the mind because of psychedelics. Like, because I'm. The research now is still like young in a weird way, even though we've had it for long. And then we have some old stuff that's, that's applying to now.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

In the very beginning it was cocaine. That was the cure all for everything.

[Trevor Noah]

Wait, really?

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Yes. That's why I was trying to say earlier. You know, we think we view this as a new mode of, you know, investigation, but it's not at all like psychedelics were popular way back in the day. Drugs were popular way back in the day. Yeah, yeah. Whenever I, we. Whenever I was in the PhD and studying drug addiction, like, I learned about how all these, you know, came to be and.

[Trevor Noah]

Sorry, before I forget, there's something I want to ask you about that, though. How do, how do we define an addiction? I think a lot of people struggle with this. I might be one of them, but I know a lot of people will. I'm not addicted. You know, like, sometimes people go, I'm not addicted to my phone. I just use it. And I like keeping up to date with stuff, but I'm not addicted. And someone else will be like, oh, no, I'm not addicted to that. I'm not addicted to this. I'm not. How do we actually define addiction?

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Yeah, well, I mean, there is a whole DSM 5 criteria. And, you know, but I think when you think about just behaviorally, it's tolerance and dependence.

[Trevor Noah]

Tolerance and dependence and withdrawal.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Right? I mean, and withdrawal kind of can go in with tolerance and dependence. But when really, like in, in the science world, we don't even really use addiction. We use like, you know, dependence, okay. And. Or substance abuse. And really, what you. What I look at and when people ask me that, I. What That I work with, right? Because there are people that, you know, smoke weed or different things, and should I stop? How do I know? And really, it's. It's tolerance, independence. Do you. Do you have the ability to stop? Like, do. Is that a conscious choice? If you were to. To. Would you feel bad? That's dependence and tolerance. Right? Tolerance.

[Trevor Noah]

What happens when people say, I can stop anytime I want to? I just don't want to. Because you hear people say that. No, and I know you genuinely heard people say this. And then, I don't know.

[Eugene]

Denial.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, but I, I don't.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

It's denial. It's denial. And I think again, how do you test? You can't. You can't stop unless you want to. And that's kind of what I was saying earlier, that you cannot convince somebody to stop a behavior if they don't want to stop the behavior. And so they. That's. I mean, obviously we know from objectively outside looking in, okay, you're probably dependent on this thing. If you don't want to stop, then you're dependent on it. And if it's going to make you feel emotionally, you know, worse, and you feel worse if you don't use it or do the thing like, for example, the phone, if you want a day without it, would you feel a raise in anxiety levels? And there's been studies on that. And that's shown that people do feel an increase in anxiety without the phone. Phone. I personally feel a decrease. I don't like. I love not being around my phone. But yeah, if you are gonna. Like we were saying earlier with the nicotine, if you're gonna quit cold turkey, does that increase your anxiety levels? Well, that's dependence and also tolerances. Do you need it more and more and more over time?

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

And so that's another way of knowing, you know, am I becoming dependent on this drug? Am I becoming good addictions, then?

[Trevor Noah]

Can you be addicted to good things?

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Absolutely.

[Trevor Noah]

Like working out.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

You can be addicted to anything that all drugs of abuse boost dopamine in the reward centers of the brain. Every single one. And so anything that boosts dopamine in the reward centers can technically be addictive. Right. Especially if you have an addictive personality. And I think, yeah, there are things that, you know, you can become addicted to that. Like, personally, for me, I love the grind. Like, I love the feeling of sitting down and being at, like, working for like, seven hours straight, like, oh, wow, okay. It feels so good to me. I love it. And you know, being in college, I. And. And recently was writing my book, I kind of forgot, like, damn, this makes me feel really good. It's sort of addicting. And it, you know, I have this mindset of, like, I. I really am my own biggest cheerleader because every time I get up to go to the bathroom or get some water, I'm like, you're doing such a great job. And, like, you got this. And I had so much dopamine from that. And then also that pride in yourself whenever you. After you've done it, it's like that feeling is addicting. So absolutely, like, you can be addicted to good things for sure.

[Trevor Noah]

So now, so sorry, going back, because you were going down the path, you were talking about. About the work that we've done in and around understanding the brain and how psychedelics and all of these things affect. And you're talking about in addiction, et cetera, et cetera. So going back down that pathway, what. What are we. What are we starting to understand that we've maybe forgotten or. Or what are we picking up on in the fields of neuroscience and psychedelics and how they can help people and how they can maybe not help people, or what does it even, like, help us understand about the brain itself?

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Yeah, I think one of the coolest things that it's taught us about the brain is about quieting the default mode network of the brain, you know, about that. Okay. Yeah. I think that what we've found through psychedelic research, especially psilocybin, lsd and also meditation, quiets the default mode network as well. So does hypnosis. But what we've found is that when you can quiet the default mode network. Network, you actually can, you can alter your sense, your self concept, your sense of self habits. You can alter, you know, past memories and, or trauma. You can, you can really alter things in a way that we haven't really had the ability to before. And that, and you, you come out of that experience a different person is the point. And when, when you alter your self concept, like if you go on YouTube and you look, look up. Oh, quantum leaping. Every single hypnosis for quantum leaping is all about just altering your self concept. Like, that's really what it's about. When you alter your self concept, you alter the story that your default mode hat network has saved as who you are.

[Trevor Noah]

I'm a shy person, right. I'm a messy person.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

And when you alter your self concept and who you are, that story of who you are, then, well, your default mode network is not only responsible for who you are, but also your default mode of, of thinking, feeling, behaving, your decision making, all of it. So when you alter your self concept now your default mode of thinking, feeling and behaving is different. And so it changes you forever rather than just over time working on reducing your stress or. No, when you change who you think you are and who you know you are, the person that you are, then it changes. It changes everything.

[Trevor Noah]

So essentially it's almost like, yeah, oof. These are just external tools. And as you said, meditation or internal tools, tools. But fundamentally what it's able to do is change which lines your perceptive to as your kitten. You're like shifting. You're like, I'm a horizontal kitten or I was a vertical kitten my whole life. And it's like, oh, no, no, no. Now you can, you can work on changing that. And you're like, no, no, I'm. I'm not a horizontal kitten anymore.

[Eugene]

But I think Wayne Dyer said it nicely when he says, change the way you see things and the things you see will change.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

I love Wayne.

[Eugene]

Dynamics are, he's, he, he was incredible. And it's, it's how Oprah changed her life, right? And changed the course of her show. When she started giving things away and making people feel good and recognizing people were working hard was because she was affected by the book she read. She had read the book and she thought it's not about salaciousness and gossip and about conflict. The show could be about giving and sharing. And she started reading these books and the book club, introducing people to these concepts. Concepts. And then they started seeping into the Gary Zhukovs and them into the zeitgeist of what America started being about when they thought of a talk show.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Right, right. And these drugs, of course, they also boost a lot of neuroplasticity as well. And that helps to change the brain long term too. So it's kind of a combination of a lot of things happening all at once, which is why these drugs can make such huge differences in people's lives very quickly. And we do, we can do those things, things, you know, over time. But also, you know, these drugs, they alter people's state of consciousness. They, they, they allow you to look at the world in a way that you've never seen the world before. And when you do that, you. There's no going back from that experience. Right. You can't unsee it. I remember the first time I ever looked at the moon and saw like, you know, we. When you look at the moon and it's like a waxing crescent or something, you see a crescent moon. And I remember the first time I looked at the moon on psilocybin and saw the entire moon, but just that the sun was coming from over here, only lighting up that little bit. And I was like, oh, wow. And I saw it in a way that I can never unsee ever again. And it's, it's the way that it actually is. And I think, you know, and this is my personal kind of opinion or theory on this, but it, like we've talked about, the brain constructs. Everything that we see, it constructs our entire experience. And so these mind altering drugs, they can, they, they kind of allow you to see those different. Like what you were saying in the video.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, different.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

The replay, they allow you to see the different replays from all different angles. Right. And have this all of a sudden brand new perception on life. And you don't come out of that, like, you don't come out of that the same. You come out of that viewing the world completely different.

[Trevor Noah]

I've always, you know what's funny? I've always thought, sorry, I was gonna. I've always thought that's why alcohol is legal. And like all these psychedelics have always been pushed to the fringes of illegality because alcohol, from what I've experienced and what I've seen is something that sort of like dulls Your senses in that way.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

It's a depressant.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah. And it's a perfect tool to keep people living in a system that has you suppressed and oppressed in a certain way. And then psychedelics. I don't know if you ever read this thing. It really blew my mind. Was in and around, like, the whole free love movement and, you know, Vietnam and that whole time. One of the biggest things that scared the US Government at that time, I think it was Nixon. I stand to be correct. I'm always bad with the president, but I think it was his administration. One of the things they talked about internally was they said these drugs are undermining the very principle that America's built on. And that is people aiming upwards to be like, manager, manager's manager, district manager. Because people were just like, no, do you need a ride? Jump in.

[Eugene]

Let's go there.

[Trevor Noah]

Do you need some food? Come on, let's go. Hey, come hang out with us. People just walking around like, free love movement. Yeah. But it now became. They were like, we need to shut this down. Down.

[Eugene]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

Because it goes against the structure that we're building, which is get as much as you can from as many people as you can and just fight to stay there in your own little world. We. We can't allow that. But alcohol, ironically, does the opposite. If you go to a job that you hate and you hate your world and you hate your thing you have,

[M (Emon the Brain)]

alcohol makes you feel better about it.

[Trevor Noah]

It makes you forget about it even more than that.

[Eugene]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

And it just. It just numbs you.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Makes you feel less about it.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, it makes you feel less about it. And then you go do it again. Again. And then you go do it again. And then you go do it again. But if you took psilocybin or if your manager took psilocybin or what, there's a good chance they might just be like, hey, man, I don't know. Take Friday off. Who. Who cares about Friday? Did you do the work?

[Eugene]

But I'm a trial lawyer.

[Trevor Noah]

But that's what the judge. Imagine the judge.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Or you might just be like, hey, you know, who even needs this defense? Like, the judge.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah. A person might be like, actually, aren't we already in prison? I'll go in through.

[Eugene]

Fine.

[Trevor Noah]

You know, but.

[Eugene]

And I say this so accurate. Yeah, you're right. No, no, no, you're.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

No, but it makes sense.

[Eugene]

This is exactly what.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

At the same time.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

I mean, I've had experiences where I'm like, you know, maybe I should just live in this, you know, national forest that I'm in right now. This would be awesome. And never talk to anybody and not have a phone. Like, that would be great.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

And it really has you wanting that.

[Trevor Noah]

That's what, that's what I mean about, like the further, the further we get and disconnect and we could talk to you forever. And I mean, that's why you wrote a book. That's why you have your podcast. That's why you have all this things. If, if you were to leave us with one. I mean, you've left us with so much there, but if you were to leave us with like one, just like one idea or one concept in terms of starting, you know, people talk about journaling, people talk about meditation. People talk about people. But what would you say was just like, just the, the first catalyst that you would say to somebody, hey, just. Just do this and do it repeatedly. And it might not change everything, but I think that this is like the first step that you might want to take to just start changing how you see the world and yourself in it.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Yeah, I would say the first step, and we touched on this a little, is starting with your internal sort of conversation and like how you think about yourself and about the world and just kind of rewiring that. That's where I started. I would get up every single morning and I would go on a walk, talk, and I would listen to affirmations on YouTube. I actually still have that playlist of affirmations on YouTube completely available to everybody. So if you want to go and listen to it, go for it. But I start rewiring the way that you think, and that will change everything. Like when you change the way you think we talked about, you change the way you look at things, the things that you look at change. And the first step in changing the way that you see the world is changing the way that you see yourself and changing the way that. And we talked about this with relationships too. Like, everything changes when you change how you treat yourself. And you will no longer settle for anything less than you deserve. And you'll believe in yourself, which is extremely powerful. So I would say that really is the first step is working on your own self concept and how you talk to yourself. And that's the best place to start because even. Even if your external reality doesn't change, which I think it will, your internal reality definitely will, and you'll start to feel better. And at the end of the day, what's the point of doing any of this work of rewiring your brain if you don't feel better. Like, that's, that's the point of all. That's the whole point is to feel better. Like, we get so caught up in manifesting this or manifesting that or this achievement. But life, the majority of our life is the time between the achievements. It's the journey. It's the. If it was about the destination, it'd be called death. It's about the moments between the achievements. And so how can we make those moments more enjoyable? And it really just comes down to, to how you treat yourself, how you talk to yourself. That'll change every. It does change everything when you change the way that you talk to yourself and treat yourself. So I would start there.

[Trevor Noah]

You've changed everything. Thank you for joining us.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Thank you guys for having me.

[Trevor Noah]

Genuinely, this has been great. Did I not tell you this would be one of your favorites? Did I? I wrote that down in your journal, buddy.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Are we going to be friends now, Eugene?

[Eugene]

Yes, we are. Yes.

[Trevor Noah]

No, I'm for real. Thank you so much.

[Eugene]

Amazing. Thank you for your generosity.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

Yeah, thank you guys for having me. This has been awesome.

[Trevor Noah]

Thanks, y'.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

All.

[Eugene]

You never lied, eh?

[Trevor Noah]

What now with Trevor Noah is produced by DayZero Productions in partnership with SiriusXM. The show is executive produced by Trevor Noah, Sanaz Yamin and Jess Hackle. Rebecca Chain is our producer. Our development researcher is Marcia Robiu. Music mix and mastering by Hannis Brown. Random other stuff by Ryan Hardooth. Thank you so much for listening. Join me next week for another episode of what now.

[M (Emon the Brain)]

When planning a trip, Expedia makes it simple. It's the one stop. Shop for travel, flights, hotels, vacation rentals, cars and activities all in one place. Everything you need to plan the trip lives right there. And with Expedia, you can bundle and save, book everything together or start with just a flight and add a hotel, car or activities later. As plans come together, you can save up to 30%. Expedia, the one place you go to go places. Members only. Savings vary.

[Trevor Noah]

This message is a paid partnership with Apple Card. Imagine this. You're at a checkout count. You're ready to pay when you realize you don't have your wallet. Dun, dun, dun. You could drive all the way back home and you could get it. But you remember that you have your Apple card on your iPhone so you can tap to pay with Apple pay. Imagine that. No need to carry a wallet. But you know, one of the things I do like about having my card on my phone is we live in a world where you lose your card and then you don't know where it is. And then you're like, what do I do? Well, if your phone is connected to your card and your card is connected to your phone, you know what's going on. The best thing about having the Apple card connected to your phone is you know what every transaction is. You know, like, sometimes you're like, what did I spend this month? The Apple card will show you one month. I had spent an obscene amount of money ordering videos online.

[Eugene]

Just videos?

[Trevor Noah]

They were just videos.

[Eugene]

What kind of videos?

[Trevor Noah]

That's not the point. The point is, I knew that I didn't want to order those videos anymore because I'd spent too much money on. It was videos on how to not spend money online. I felt like I'd been duped. Point is, Apple showed me what I was spending my money on, and I was able to change my spending habits. And you can do it, too. I earn up to 3% daily cash back on every purchase with my Apple card. That's unlimited daily cash back no matter where I shop. Apply for Apple card in the wallet app on your iPhone. Subject to credit approval. Apple card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Salt Lake City branch terms and [e-mail].