Podcast Summary: "How Shame Became the New Sex Ed"

What Now? with Trevor Noah
Guest: Carter Sherman (Reproductive Health & Justice Reporter, The Guardian)
Date: November 13, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode delves into the complex landscape of sex, shame, and education with journalist Carter Sherman, author of "The Second Coming." Trevor, Carter, and Eugene Koza explore why Gen Z is having less sex, how shame has become a silent curriculum, and how both public discourse and institutional approaches have shaped young people's sexual realities. With wit and candor, they discuss everything from virginity angst to the pitfalls of abstinence-only education, the impact of porn, the role of social media, and the search for genuine connection amid shifting cultural narratives.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The "Sex Recession" and Gen Z's Changing Attitudes

• Observation: Gen Z and millennials are having less sex and starting later compared to previous generations.
  • “20 and 30 somethings are having less sex than previous generations and are starting their sex lives later. Gen Z have been done dirty.” – Carter Sherman (00:02)
• Social Media’s Role: Social media has increased isolation among teens, affecting their sexual and social development.
  • “Greater use of social media means a far greater sense of isolation.” – Carter Sherman (00:15)

2. The Failure of Sex Education

• Gaps in Sex Ed: U.S. sex ed is described as confusing, focusing on safety over pleasure, while porn offers the opposite—pleasure without context or safety.
  • “Sex ed teaches you how to be safe but not the pleasure…porn teaches you the pleasures, sort of, but not how to be safe.” – Carter Sherman (00:24)
• Abstinence-Only Funding: More than $2 billion has been spent since 2000 on abstinence-only sex education, which evidence shows “does not work.”
  • “$2 billion into convincing people that they should not have sex until marriage.” – Trevor Noah (17:31)

3. Shame as Sex Education

• Cultural Shifts on Virginity: Virginity was historically prized, especially for women, but now being a virgin is seen as "lame" in the U.S. Young people are pressured both ways—early sex is expected, but openly discussing desires or struggles is taboo.
  • (See timestamps [07:16–12:33])
• Personal Stories: Carter recalls the distress over being a 17-year-old virgin and the open, supportive (and rare) conversation she had with her mother about it.
  • “I was so upset to be a 17-year-old virgin. I thought I was the last 17-year-old virgin on the planet…” – Carter Sherman (07:16)

4. The Deep Confusion and Silence

• Lack of Honest Conversation: Both among peers and families, sex remains stigmatized or sensationalized. Young men report rarely being asked about feelings or preparedness, while young women and queer people are more likely to have thought about these issues but feel unsupported.
  • “We don't really have open conversations about sex.” – Carter Sherman (12:59)
  • “A lot of the young men I interviewed had not necessarily thought about or even come to the table with things to talk about.” – Carter Sherman (25:00)

5. Myths, Stereotypes, and Hegemonic Masculinity

• Defining Manhood: “Men should be big, strong, tall, emotionless cavemen who are good at obtaining sex and always want to have sex.” – Carter Sherman (27:16)
• Systemic Neglect: Young men aren’t given space to explore vulnerability, leading to pressure and confusion in intimate relationships.

6. Porn as Teacher, Porn as Problem

• Education by Porn: With sex left undiscussed in schools and families, teens turn to porn as their de facto sex ed, despite “knowing” it’s fake.
  • “It’s basically like if you learn to drive by playing Grand Theft Auto.” – Carter Sherman (34:23)
• Normalization of Rough Sex: Porn has normalized acts like choking for under-40s, with many reporting those acts often occur without consent.
  • “If you’re under 40, you are almost twice as likely to have been choked during sex.” – Carter Sherman (37:38)
• Lack of Communication: No scripts or teaching in porn about communication, consent, or humor—the real ingredients for enjoyable, safe sex.

7. The Social Media & "Fuckability" Trap

• Self-Objectification Online: Feedback loops of likes and matches incentivize people to see themselves through the eyes of others, not their own experiential pleasure or desires.
  • “They understand their sexual value and how to convey it online because they’re constantly getting feedback in the form of likes…” – Carter Sherman (53:36)
• Negative Outcomes: Increases in eating disorders, lower self-esteem, and in some cases, avoidance of sex due to anxiety about appearance and judgment.

8. Sexting, Nudes, and Revenge Porn

• Generational Shift: Sending nudes and sexting are normalized among Gen Z; the stigma lies more in exposure (“leaks”) than the act itself.
• Language Matters: “Revenge porn” diminishes the violation—“non-consensual image abuse” is a more accurate term.
  • “Someone leaking your nudes is not revenge porn…It was never porn in that way at all.” – Eugene Koza (67:43)

9. Legal and Political Battlegrounds

• Title IX as Political Football: Rules swing back and forth depending on administration, leaving survivors without reliable recourse and campuses without clarity or consistency.
  • “Title IX became unusable for survivors.” (70:21)
  • “We have a resistance to having any of these kinds of conversations about the system…” – Carter Sherman (77:15)

10. The Role of Fear and Shame in Sexual Decision-Making

• Roe v. Wade Fallout: Loss of abortion rights has intensified anxiety and shame around sex, for both young men and women.
  • “She felt like she was being humiliated for having sex… she felt like Republicans in particular were trying to punish her for having been a person that had sex.” – Carter Sherman (90:46)
• Generalized Fear: Fear over consent, sexual assault accusations, and social/political stigma is pushing some to simply “opt out” of partnered sex.

11. Possible Paths Forward and Radical Hope

• Learning from the Fringes: Consent culture in marginalized spaces like BDSM can model how to create safer, more communicative sexual landscapes.
• Restorative Justice: Sometimes, what survivors want isn’t incarceration but acknowledgment and apology, though the current system doesn’t facilitate that.
  • “I think an apology would have actually done a lot.” – Carter Sherman (83:03)
• Nuanced Sex Ed: Healthy relationships, vulnerability, and communication should be central—not just biology and disease prevention.
  • “Healthy relationship education is also a part of sex ed.” – Carter Sherman (44:55)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• [07:16] Carter Sherman: “I was so upset to be a 17-year-old virgin. I thought I was the last 17-year-old virgin on the planet…”
• [17:31] Trevor Noah: “$2 billion into convincing people that they should not have sex until marriage. $2 billion.”
• [27:16] Carter Sherman: “There are a lot of very narrow ideas about what a man should be—and particularly when it comes to sex...”
• [34:23] Carter Sherman: “It’s basically like if you learn to drive by playing Grand Theft Auto…”
• [37:38] Carter Sherman: “If you’re under 40, you are almost twice as likely to have been choked during sex as someone if you’re over 40. … Many people are not asked for consent before they’re choked.”
• [53:36] Carter Sherman: “They understand their sexual value and how to convey it online because they're constantly getting feedback in the form of likes…”
• [67:57] Carter Sherman: “Advocates now would say instead of using revenge porn, we should use terms like non-consensual image abuse.”
• [83:03] Carter Sherman: “I think an apology would have actually done a lot.” (on what she would have wanted after being sexually assaulted)
• [90:46] Carter Sherman: “She felt like she was being humiliated for having sex… [like] Republicans in particular were trying to punish her for having been a person that had sex.”
• [96:24] Eugene Koza: “What’s tricky about sex is it’s both a want and a need at the same time.”

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00–02:04 — Setting the stage: Sex recession, Gen Z’s changing relationship to sex
• 06:04–12:33 — Carter’s personal story of shame around virginity, changing cultural scripts
• 14:43–18:49 — Focus on policing young people’s sex; abstinence-only education and its goals
• 25:00–28:17 — Gendered divides in sex education and self-understanding
• 33:11–37:38 — Porn as a faulty substitute for sex ed; normalization of rough sex
• 53:36–56:01 — Social media and the commodification of “fuckability”
• 63:27–68:18 — The rise of sexting, non-consensual image abuse, and the importance of nuance
• 68:51–77:15 — Title IX, “kangaroo courts” on college campuses, political football of abuse
• 82:37–84:06 — Restorative justice, what survivors actually want
• 89:18–92:34 — The role of fear, consequences after Roe v. Wade, and emotional toll
• 94:39–96:19 — Is there hope? Young people’s activism, embracing complexity

Podcast Tone & Dynamic

The episode is lively and candid, blending personal anecdote, journalist insight, sharp humor, and frank discussion. Trevor Noah’s playful skepticism and Carter Sherman’s approachable expertise create an open, thoughtful space for topics that are too often sensationalized or stigmatized.

Conclusion: Where Do We Go From Here?

• The hosts and guest agree that the invisibility and confusion around sex harms everyone, not just Gen Z.
• Both comprehensive sex ed (including emotional and relational aspects) and honest cultural discussion are urgently needed.
• Change is possible, especially if young people embrace activism, communication, and community—acknowledging both the personal and political stakes.

“We shouldn’t try to make sex something that is black or white… We should try to look at sex in the landscape of its messiness and enjoy that.” – Carter Sherman (94:39)

For more: Check out Carter Sherman’s book, The Second Coming, for more stories, research, and perspective on how American sex education, culture, and politics shape a generation.