What Now? with Trevor Noah

Episode: Jokes, Outrage, and the New Rules of Comedy with Sam Morril (November 20, 2025)

Episode Overview

Trevor Noah sits down with acclaimed stand-up comedian Sam Morril for a candid and engaging conversation about the evolving landscape of comedy, navigating controversy, authenticity on and off stage, and the strange, often illogical boundaries comedians encounter today. They dive into Sam's process, the pressures and pleasures of touring, what defines “honest” comedy, and why society has become so quick to turn art into culture war fodder. Their freewheeling chat touches on everything from classic sitcom nostalgia to COVID’s impact on audiences, and even the humble rat, all delivered in their characteristic mix of sharp wit, honesty, and mutual respect for the craft.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Honesty and Process of Stand-Up Comedy

• Comedy as Hyper-Feedback Art
  • Sam describes stand-up as unique for its immediacy—unlike books or films, comics know “right away if you’re slipping” (07:27).
  • “We focus-test our stuff more than anyone else… Is this funny? Scorsese doesn’t do this.” —Sam Morril [08:15]
• Cringe at Calling Comedy 'Art'
  • Sam feels pretentious calling stand-up an art despite parallels to painting or music.
  • Trevor contrasts this humility with how chefs shy away from the “chef” title, despite their artistry.
  • “I get, like, cringey. Cause we’re… it’s a pretentious way to describe—it’s so unpretentious, you know?” —Sam Morril [05:19]

2. Instant Feedback vs. Other Creative Forms

• Testing Material in Real Time
  • Comedians, unlike filmmakers, get instant crowd reaction, which Sam finds both exhilarating and brutal.
• Why Some Jokes Fail
  • Trevor suggests that sometimes a joke fails not in content but because audiences haven't resolved the underlying cultural tension (12:02):
    • “Oftentimes in comedy, the punchline has to release you from reality… If the punchline brings you back to reality and a reality that you haven’t resolved, audiences aren’t happy.” —Trevor Noah [12:02]

3. Navigating Outrage, Tribes, and the ‘Rules’ of Modern Comedy

• Comedy Becoming Tribalized
  • Trevor and Sam lament how jokes are weaponized by social and political factions—clips are cut to feed echo chambers [83:24], making it hard for comics to be “for everyone.”
  • “Now, if Taylor Swift performs, and you’re not a Swifty, the world tells you you’re losing.” —Trevor Noah [48:24]
  • Sam: “I feel like you are one of the final bastions of comedy right now.” [49:24]
• Algorithm & Out-of-Context Outrage
  • Social platforms mute “dangerous” words, burying nuance.
  • “Comics will start writing for the algorithm. That’s what worries me—that jokes will be written for some AI, not for people.” —Sam Morril [95:03]

4. Reluctant Heroism: Sam Morril’s Style

• Neither Savior Nor Villain
  • Sam is reluctant to be crowned a hero by either 'side', preferring to just “tell jokes.”
  • “I don’t want to get praise where you think I’m something I’m not. I have no problem with anybody, until a person is an asshole on their own basis.” —Sam Morril [84:40]

5. Personal Stories & the Making of a Comedian

• Sam’s Roots in Stand-Up
  • Driven by the desire to rely on himself, avoid unreliable “teams,” and the thrill of “island” performance (34:00).
  • “I respected that in tennis players… It’s make or break, it’s all you. That’s the life of a comic.” —Sam Morril [33:47]
• Childhood, Family, and Becoming the 'Fun' Guy
  • Early home dynamics made him the “cockblock” and class clown, chasing attention as the “fun drunk uncle.” [73:01–77:13]

6. Comedy Craft & Testing the Limits

• Push and Pull with Audiences
  • Both relish the “sadistic” side of seeing how far a joke can go before losing the audience [14:48].
  • “You want to see the furthest you can possibly go. When you have a joke, you stretch it as far as you can take it.” —Sam Morril [14:55]
• Bombing and Risk
  • Accepting that even the best can bomb is part of the job (“Chappelle taught me…”) [49:46]
  • Making jokes in the “wrong” place—like local news—deliberately pushing boundaries (80:03)

7. COVID, Social Change, and Comedy’s Healing Role

• NYC COVID Stories
  • Both reflect on the haunted experience of early-pandemic New York, deserted streets, and comedy shows on rooftops to “keep going” [41:45–43:13].
  • “People needed to laugh… That joke wasn’t even that good, but that guy needed to laugh. That’s why I had a hard time telling if it was good, I think people like, wanted.” —Sam Morril [42:29]
• Society's Missed Mourning Period
  • Trevor: “I think a lot of people were crying [when the Queen died] because they didn’t get to cry about COVID.” [44:56]

8. Generational & Cultural Shifts in Outrage and Consensus

• Rage-Bait & Loss of Nuance
  • “People call it rage bait. If you say ‘The Sopranos sucked,’ people engage because it’s more dramatic.” —Sam Morril [47:58]
• Everything Is for or Against 'My Side'
  • Modern culture no longer permits neutral preferences—everything is a tribal loss or victory [48:12–48:48].

9. Writing, Touring, and the Workaholic Comedian Life

• Tour Bus Life
  • Sam extols the tour bus over flights—“I sleep like a baby when the bus is moving” [24:49]—including accidentally traumatic incidents involving hot chicken and illicit bus bathroom use [25:04].
• Balancing Art and Hustle
  • Both warn against the American trap of “more, more, more”—not wanting to lose joy for the sake of money [109:22].
  • “America is the land of more. The economic powerhouse because of it, but also full of burnout because of it.” —Trevor Noah [109:34]
• Keeping Stand-Up as the Core
  • Movie/TV pursuits, but “stand-up will be base” (111:12).

10. On Offensive Bits, Crowd Dynamics & Craft Choices

• Deciding When to Drop a Joke
  • “The batting average has to be high enough that I’m not keeping it just to be stubborn... If it doesn’t work, something’s wrong with it.” —Sam Morril [86:56]
• Crowd Differences (Oklahoma vs NYC, etc.)
  • Some bits kill in one place, bomb the next. Touring helps find what’s “bulletproof” [90:36].
• Science of Jokes
  • Comedy as science: change a word, change the reaction [55:49]
  • “We are running experiments up there” —Trevor Noah [55:57]

11. Great Movie Recommendations

• Sam’s Personal Film Picks:

  • The Big Heat (1953)
  • Double Indemnity (1944)
  • Out of the Past (1947)
  • A Simple Plan (1998)
  • Fargo (1996)

  “Scripts are airtight… For a movie to stand the test of time, the writing has to be so tight, the themes universal.” —Sam Morril [112:54]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On What Makes Comedy Work
  “A laughing jury is not a hanging jury.” —Trevor Noah [04:44]

• On the Art/Craft Division
  “A lot of chefs will call themselves cooks... and a lot of cooks will call themselves chefs.” —Trevor Noah [05:26]

• On Outrage Culture/Fake Division
  “Now it always means something—it’s always a win or loss for your side. I remember when people were allowed to just not like something, but not say it was shit.” —Trevor Noah [47:17]

• On 'Reluctant Hero' Status
  “I feel like Sam... you are one of the final bastions of comedy right now.” —Trevor Noah [49:24]
  “I just don’t want to get praise where you think I’m something I’m not… I’m literally just making jokes.” —Sam Morril [84:40]

• On Joke Freedom and Tech
  “Comics writing for the algorithm... That's what worries me.” —Sam Morril [95:03]

• On America and 'More'
  “If you can do 50 dates, why not 60? Why not 70? It’s the land of more.” —Trevor Noah [109:34]

Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• 05:18 – Is stand-up “art,” and why Sam resists the label.
• 08:34 – Instant feedback versus the “focus group” process in other arts.
• 12:32 – When audiences aren’t ready for a punchline: “the unresolved bit.”
• 27:34 – Bizarre digression into airplane bathroom waste disposal.
• 33:47 – Why Sam chose stand-up (the solitary, “tennis player” appeal).
• 41:45 – Comedy during COVID: Rooftops, outdoor shows, and social focus.
• 48:12–48:48 – Tribalization of pop culture and the “side-taking” problem.
• 54:42 – The science/experimentation of jokes and why punchlines sometimes fail.
• 86:56 – Sam on how to decide a controversial joke’s future.
• 95:03 – Algorithms/tech companies changing joke writing, not 'cancel culture.'
• 112:03 – Sam’s top five old and new noir movies.
• 109:22 – The trap of doing “more” in America versus sustaining joy in comedy.

Sample Highlighted Exchange

Trevor Noah [12:02]:
“Oftentimes in comedy, the punchline has to release you from reality... If the punchline brings you back to reality and a reality that you haven’t resolved, audiences aren’t happy.”

Sam Morril [12:47]:
“So I’m reminding them of something that they’re like, what do we do? Yes, that’s interesting. That’s a good observation. I never thought of it that way.”

Sam Morril [95:03]:
“Comics will start writing for the algorithm. That’s what worries me—that jokes will be written for some AI, not for people.”

Conclusion & Episode Takeaways

This episode is a rich, sharp, and laugh-packed masterclass in comedy’s evolving landscape. Trevor and Sam dissect modern outrage, the loss of nuance, and the “art” of taking risks, all while reinforcing why live comedy remains irreplaceable. Sam’s perspective—never pandering, always searching for the funny in hardship—serves as a model in a hyper-tribalized era, and his concrete craft talk will fascinate aspiring comics and longtime fans alike.

For further listening:

• Check out Sam at Carnegie Hall, December 4, or sammorril.com
• Film buffs: Track down Sam’s recommendations, especially The Big Heat and Fargo.

Final notes:
Comedy is still alive, dangerous, and essential—a place for all sides when the mic is truly open.