Zohran Mamdani: New York's New Mayor Pops In

Summary

Podcast Summary: "What Now? with Trevor Noah"

Episode: Zohran Mamdani: New York's New Mayor Pops In

Date: December 16, 2025
Host: Trevor Noah
Guest: Zohran Mamdani (Mayor-elect of New York City), with friends and recurring contributors Dave and Eugene

---

Overview

In this lively, humorous, and unfiltered episode, Trevor Noah welcomes Zohran Mamdani, the recently elected Mayor of New York City. Together with regular contributors Dave and Eugene, Trevor engages in a candid conversation with Mamdani about the future of New York under his leadership, his personal evolution from musician and immigrant to public servant, and his progressive agenda. The episode interweaves policy discussion with insight into Mamdani’s personality, friendships, and approach to politics, sprinkled with playful banter and authentic moments.

---

Major Discussion Points & Insights

1. Life Changes & Personal Reactions to Becoming Mayor

(08:34–11:21)

• Transition to public figure: Mamdani discusses how his life has changed, from being a familiar face in small social circles to a prominent public official watched by millions.
  • Quote: “You learn different parts of the city because of what your life is like now... going for a walk at night, it has a different kind of meaning now because it’s where we can find a little bit of anonymity.” — Zohran Mamdani (10:55)
• Reflection: Trevor and friends joke about friends and family’s reactions to Mamdani’s new status, emphasizing the surreal shift.

2. Immediate Priorities as Mayor-elect

(15:50–21:37)

• Transition period: Currently focused on hiring, vetting, and assembling a team ahead of inauguration.
• Selecting staff: Rather than owing favors, Mamdani says he chooses candidates based on merit and a mix of governmental experience and unburdened imagination.
  • Quote: "It’s quite liberating, actually, to come into this position and not have to owe favors... you’re just actually making decisions based on: do you think this person can do the job?" — Zohran Mamdani (17:24)
  • Cites Dean Fulahan as his first deputy mayor, chosen for a blend of long public service and bold thinking.

3. Philosophy of Governance & Imagination in Politics

(21:05–24:26)

• Imagination gap: Trevor notes left-wing/progressive politicians are often criticized for being unrealistic, whereas conservatives are allowed broader imagination ("limitless").
  • Quote: "Republicans have a limitless imagination. And as Democrats, we’re constructing an ever-lowering ceiling of possibility... robbing ourselves of ambition and imagination." — Zohran Mamdani (21:12)
• Decline of faith and ambition: Trevor suggests that the decline of faith (not just religion) on the left is linked to diminished societal ambition.

4. The Challenge of Delivering on Policy—Success, Failure, and Trust

(24:26–26:05)

• Trevor asks how Mamdani wants to be judged if/when he falls short.
  • Quote: “We built a campaign around three policy commitments... We have to deliver these things... What frustrates so many is that there are so many things where it looks like someone is not even trying.” — Zohran Mamdani (25:15)

5. The “Book of Power” and the Limits of Mayoral Authority

(26:36–29:52)

• Rent stabilization: Mamdani explains that as Mayor, he will appoint every member of the Rent Guidelines Board, thus directly influencing rent policy for half of NYC tenants.
  • Clarifies: Distinction between rent stabilization and rent control, affecting about 2.5 million New Yorkers.
• Inter-agency cooperation: Explains that universal child care and fast/free buses require state cooperation.

6. The Small Stuff: Micro-Issues & Citizen Engagement

(33:04–39:52)

• Ambulance sirens & everyday annoyances: Dave’s tongue-in-cheek town hall question about loud ambulances triggers a broader discussion.
  • Mamdani: “Government often says a crisis is too big... but it’s also said this issue is too small, it’s not worth our time... wherever you are losing people’s faith, losing people’s trust, that’s also where you’re losing their faith and trust in an ambitious agenda.” (37:44)
• Perception vs. Reality: Trevor points out how small issues can shape public perception as much as large policy changes do.

7. Policy Pillars: The Big Three

(39:52–49:45)

a. Freezing Rent for Rent-Stabilized Tenants

• Directly actionable via mayoral appointees on Rent Guidelines Board.

b. Fast and Free Buses

• Data & Impact: NYC has the slowest buses in the country (avg. 5 mph in places); free-fare pilot reduced assaults on bus drivers by 38.9%.
  • Quote: “A bus rider...is around $30,000 a year. We’re talking about the most working-class New Yorkers who are dealing with some of the most substandard public transit. And it’s a political choice.” — Mamdani (44:58)
• Universal vs. means-tested: Free-at-point-of-use outperforms means-testing in reach and public safety.

c. Universal Childcare

• Cost averages $22,500 per child/year; outstrips what many earn after tax.
  • Quote: “It is cheaper to send that same child 18 years later to the City University of New York than it is to find childcare for them.” — Mamdani (50:31)
• Lack of affordable childcare is the top reason, after housing, for families leaving NYC.

8. On Labels, Socialism, and Public Perception

(54:06–56:11)

• Discusses the stigma of “socialist” and reframes it in language of “dignity” and democracy.
  • Quote: “As a Muslim socialist, I’m familiar with bad PR... but it comes back to dignity... when you’re speaking to New Yorkers one to one, they’ve actually had far fewer questions of how I describe my politics and far more of: does my politics include them?” — Mamdani (54:49)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Micromanaging Anonymity:
  "Going for a walk at night, it has a different kind of meaning now because it’s where we can find a little bit of anonymity." — Mamdani (10:55)
• On Imagination in Politics:
  "Republicans have a limitless imagination. And as Democrats, we’re constructing an ever-lowering ceiling of possibility." — Mamdani (21:12)
• On Policy Delivery:
  "What frustrates so many is that there are so many things where it looks like someone is not even trying." — Mamdani (25:15)
• On Universal Programs:
  "Whenever you create a means-tested program, you are comfortable to some level with saying goodbye to people who would be eligible for it." — Mamdani (47:06)
• On Socialist Label:
  "As a Muslim socialist, I’m familiar with bad PR... it comes back to dignity." — Mamdani (54:49)

---

Key Timestamps for Major Segments

• Meeting & life changes: 08:34–11:21
• Transition and team building: 15:50–21:05
• Philosophy of governance: 21:05–24:26
• Measuring political success/failure: 24:26–26:05
• Mayoral powers and process: 26:36–29:52
• Micro-issues (ambulance sirens): 33:04–39:52
• "Big Three" policy pillars: 39:52–49:45
• Universal vs. means-tested debates: 46:36–49:45
• Universal child care: 49:45–54:06
• Labels, identity, and PR: 54:06–56:11

---

Additional Highlights & Tone

• Authentic banter: The episode moves quickly between serious policy talk and playful ribbing. Trevor’s playful moderating style draws out both the vulnerable and lighthearted sides of Mamdani.
• Community and worldview: Regular asides dive into shared backgrounds (Uganda, South Africa), multicultural life, and music—particularly humorous references to their time as musicians.
• Endearing closing: The episode ends with talk of South African music, promises to return for a deeper dive into Mamdani’s life and philosophy, and the group’s familiar camaraderie.

---

Final Takeaway

This episode provides listeners with a dynamic, in-depth look at Zohran Mamdani as both a person and a policy-maker. He thoughtfully breaks down ambitious, progressive policies and the practicalities of enacting them while embracing the everyday issues that define life in New York. Trevor’s probing—mixed with friendship and humor—allows for a deeper understanding of the man behind the politics and leaves the listener eager for future installments.

Transcript

[Zoran Mamdani]

Foreign.

[Trevor Noah]

This is what now with Trevor Noah. This episode is presented by Whole Foods Market. Eat well for less. This message is a paid partnership with Apple Card. Imagine this. You're at a checkout counter, you're ready to pay, when you realize you don't have your wallet.

[Dave]

Dun, dun, dun.

[Trevor Noah]

You could drive all the way back home and you could get it. But you remember that you have your Apple card on your iPhone so you can tap to pay with Apple Pay. Imagine that. No need to carry a wallet. But you know, one of the things I do like about having my card on my phone is we live in a world where you lose your card and then you don't know where it is. And then you're like, what do I do? Well, if your phone is connected to your card and your card is connected to your phone, you know what's going on. The best thing about having the Apple card connected to your phone is you know what every transaction is. You, you know, like, sometimes you're like, what did I spend this month? The Apple card will show you one month. I had spent an obscene amount of money ordering videos online.

[Eugene]

Just videos.

[Trevor Noah]

They were just videos.

[Eugene]

What kind of videos?

[Trevor Noah]

That's not the point. The point is I knew that I didn't want to order those videos anymore cause I'd spent too much money on was videos on how to not spend money online.

[Eugene]

I felt like I'd been duped.

[Trevor Noah]

Point is, Apple showed me what I was spending my money on and I was able to change my spending habits. And you can do it too. I earn up to 3% daily cash back on every purchase with my Apple card. That's unlimited daily cash back no matter where I shop. Apply for Apple card in the wallet app on your iPhone. Subject to credit approval. Apple card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Salt Lake City Branch terms and.

[Zoran Mamdani]

More at applecard.com Score holiday gifts everyone wants for way less at your Nordstrom Rack store. Save on Ugg, Nike, Rag and Bone, Vince Frame, Kurt Geiger, London and more.

[Trevor Noah]

Because there's always something new. I'm giving all gifts this year with that extra 5% off when I use my Nordstrom credit card.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Santa who join the Nordy club at Nordstrom Rack to unlock our best deals. It's easy. Big gifts, big perks. That's why you rack. God bless. How you doing, man?

[Trevor Noah]

Good to see you. Congratulations, by the way.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Thank you very much. What did he win very much, huh?

[Trevor Noah]

He won an all expenses paid trip.

[Dave]

Almost apparently to the Upper east side.

[Trevor Noah]

All expenses paid trip to the Upper east side. Call a number.

[Dave]

What?

[Trevor Noah]

What number? Mayor are you.

[Zoran Mamdani]

By the way, they're saying it's 112.

[Trevor Noah]

No ways. Peaches and Cream. What they should sing at your inauguration. You know what's stuck in my head?

[Zoran Mamdani]

What?

[Trevor Noah]

Kanda. Kanda. Kanda.

[Dave]

I know you ever did it.

[Trevor Noah]

Kanda. Yes, Kanda. That was a vibe, man. That was me.

[Zoran Mamdani]

We made sound city top 10.

[Trevor Noah]

That was me. The songs of the week. You don't even understand the whole top.

[Eugene]

10. Who's that other guy you aged?

[Dave]

Hub? Yeah.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Yeah. I grew up with him.

[Eugene]

Where is he?

[Zoran Mamdani]

He's in Kampala.

[Eugene]

Has he reached out to you?

[Zoran Mamdani]

Yeah, I'm in touch with him. He's a close friend.

[Eugene]

When you won, did Hud say you did it?

[Trevor Noah]

We were like, is it hab or is it hab?

[Eugene]

Hab.

[Trevor Noah]

It is hab, right?

[Dave]

So it's hab.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Hab. Sorry, I thought you were asking me.

[Trevor Noah]

No, I didn't know if it's.

[Zoran Mamdani]

If it's.

[Trevor Noah]

We were like. Because it was all in caps. Then we were like, is this. Is it hab or is it habit?

[Eugene]

Did Hub text you and go. How did you convince them? Because I'm sure Hub remembers rolling with you, trying to go to a radio station in Kampala, trying to get your song played. Then he was like, you couldn't convince one station manager in Kampala.

[Zoran Mamdani]

How did you do this?

[Eugene]

The whole of New York.

[Zoran Mamdani]

How you know the reason his name is Hub. Tell me if we're off the record or.

[Eugene]

Nothing is off Dead.

[Trevor Noah]

Nothing's off the record.

[Dave]

Don't say anything.

[Eugene]

When the red light is on, it.

[Trevor Noah]

Looks like nothing is. Let me tell you the first thing. Can I tell you. I'll give you a tip. Give it to that. I learned, like, very early on with the Daily show and everything. Nothing is off the record.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Never going to know.

[Trevor Noah]

No, no.

[Zoran Mamdani]

When you.

[Trevor Noah]

If you.

[Dave]

When you walk out the room.

[Trevor Noah]

Let me explain. Let me explain. Let me explain. When you walk out. This has always fascinated me in America is when I'll see people. Like, some footage will come out from 20 years ago or something. And it'll be something that was sort of behind.

[Dave]

Not Kanda. Many.

[Trevor Noah]

The remember the ninjas who were dancing. That was the other video, though. Yes, yes, that was that one.

[Zoran Mamdani]

So my regret is that my dad dressed up as a ninja.

[Trevor Noah]

You're lying.

[Zoran Mamdani]

For that video. And the director of the video taped over that part.

[Eugene]

No, that male ninja stole the show, though.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, there was one. There was one ninja in one of the.

[Eugene]

Too much Swag for a ninja. I was like, this one. This ninja's black. This is a black ninja.

[Trevor Noah]

Oh, man.

[Eugene]

Yeah. Tell me about this thing about America. Cause I'm trying to as much as I can.

[Trevor Noah]

No, no.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

So what I was saying is, like, I was always intrigued by how people would trust just like a handshake agreement everywhere. People like, oh, this is off the record. But there's a camera rolling and the sound recording and we're like, this is off the record. And then 10 years later or five years or even a day later, the clip comes out and the people are like, but, but that was behind the cg. Like, yes, there's a camera when you're wearing a microphone. When there's a microphone, when there's a camera, it's somewhere.

[Eugene]

Cuz the editor was like, I'm not part of your agreement.

[Trevor Noah]

It's somewhere. Remember, grab them by the pussy.

[Eugene]

I wasn't there. But why are you saying, do I.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Remember Zoran, please, I'm leaving this between you guys.

[Eugene]

The way he said, you remember.

[Trevor Noah]

You're right, actually, I shouldn't have done it.

[Eugene]

Made it steamy. I accept your apology.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, I apologize. But my point is, that was all off camera.

[Eugene]

You know who also owes that was all off camera?

[Zoran Mamdani]

Who?

[Eugene]

The editor that edited Zoran's dad out of the.

[Dave]

I still can't believe he recorded.

[Zoran Mamdani]

But that's how you.

[Trevor Noah]

Yes. Oh, by the way, this is. This is a special. Like, this is. I was like, how do. How do we make this time special with you? And I thought to myself, you've got Zoran Mamdani on the podcast. But I was like, how many. You know how many tie ins we have in our lives, Right? So born in Africa. Born in Africa. Then Ugandan, right? Born in Uganda. Then I was like, do you know how many Ugandans I have in my life? In my head I thought to myself, like, I collect Ugandans. And I was like, but you can't say that. Don't say it like that.

[Zoran Mamdani]

No.

[Trevor Noah]

Anyway. No, no, no. But I. No, no, I'm saying I wasn't going to say it. This is off the record.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Just taking us through the.

[Trevor Noah]

This is off the record. I'm letting you know what was in my head. This is off the record, so you can't use it against me. So then I was like, I collect Ugandans. And I was like, but you can't say it like that. So you got to be like, I mean, I have a lot of you. I don't know how this happened. I have A lot of Ugandan friends in my life. Of Ugandan friends.

[Zoran Mamdani]

You say it like it's a.

[Trevor Noah]

Like a what?

[Zoran Mamdani]

Problem.

[Trevor Noah]

No, no, no. You made it sound like a problem. Z, don't put that on.

[Eugene]

See what it feels like.

[Trevor Noah]

Don't put that on.

[Eugene]

Someone puts you in a scene, you.

[Trevor Noah]

Owe me an apology. I'll take my apology now.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Which camera?

[Trevor Noah]

Not to me.

[Eugene]

This is not about the deposition.

[Trevor Noah]

This is straight to me.

[Dave]

Straight to me.

[Trevor Noah]

I'll take my apologies.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Apologize.

[Trevor Noah]

Thank you. Thank you very much. So then I was like, I'm just going to bring them all in. So I was like, my best friend who's Indian, my other best friend who's Ugandan and South African. They've even got microphones. They can just throw things in.

[Dave]

Where?

[Trevor Noah]

Where in Uganda, by the way?

[Dave]

Kampala. That's where I was born. Where were you born? In Kampala, Margaret.

[Eugene]

Okay.

[Zoran Mamdani]

In Zambia Hospital.

[Dave]

Oh, wow. Yeah.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Yes.

[Dave]

But I moved to South Africa like you. I can hear. Yeah, yeah. And to New York, like you.

[Eugene]

You guys hated that place.

[Trevor Noah]

Which place? South Africa or Uganda?

[Eugene]

Two places before you were like.

[Dave]

It.

[Trevor Noah]

Actually is a crazy story. Think about it.

[Dave]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

You guys both came from Uganda.

[Dave]

I mean, you're not helpful to me because my parents are like, I mean, look at Matt Zorin's day.

[Zoran Mamdani]

I'm sorry, man.

[Dave]

He's raised the ceiling for what's coming.

[Trevor Noah]

They thought you had achieved, and now they're like, wait, you could have done this? This is what you could have done. How many people are shocked? Eugene and I were talking about that the whole day. Like, there's gotta be a section of people in your life who are still shocked at the idea of you being the mayor of arguably the most important cities in the world. Hab.

[Eugene]

Oh, hab.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Yeah.

[Dave]

Hub.

[Trevor Noah]

Not Hub. Different. Hub. Hab. Think of Heb. No, but there must be, like, genuinely, just on, like, a personal level, there must be a ton of people out there who go, they just know you as Zoran.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

And then now you are Zoran Mamdani, the next mayor of New York City.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Yeah. I mean, it's. It's true. Not just in Kampala, but also here in New York City. I mean, there are people I would play on a rec soccer team with. And I was just reading this article today about. About a lot of their reactions and reflections.

[Trevor Noah]

Do you still play with them?

[Zoran Mamdani]

I haven't in a while.

[Trevor Noah]

Why not? I saw you still have the skills, by the way. I was very impressed.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Highly edited.

[Trevor Noah]

No, no, no, no. You can't edit Those skills. No, no, no, you're lying. You can't. No, you can't edit those skills.

[Zoran Mamdani]

You.

[Trevor Noah]

You like. You play. What position did you play?

[Zoran Mamdani]

I have the classic journey of someone who played up top and then lost all of their speed and now plays at left back. That's. That's where I am.

[Trevor Noah]

I started my journey at left back.

[Dave]

You know what? You know when people say.

[Trevor Noah]

You know when people say I fel.

[Eugene]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

I used to be good, and then now I play where you play all the time. That's. That's me, Trevor. That's me. I. I genuinely love that for you, man. I just like how much. How much has your life changed now? Like, is it. And I don't know if this is just anecdotal. We were chatting with Ryan about this. We were going. It feels like your social media has gotten a little more serious now, which makes sense, but I don't know if that's just how it looks online.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Do you.

[Trevor Noah]

Do you feel like a more serious shift in your life?

[Zoran Mamdani]

I think I don't feel burdened by it. I feel like sometimes that's implicit in the sense of the seriousness. It's. You can both take it for the weight that it has and also not lose sight of the fact that it's an incredible opportunity.

[Trevor Noah]

Right.

[Zoran Mamdani]

And I think, for me, the idea that it's my job to represent this city that I love, and that my job means I get to speak to New Yorkers and go across the five boroughs and see people in their own lives, it's amazing. And then there's also. There are parts of it that are absurd. You know, like, I told my landlord I was moving out, and she. She was, you know, jokingly saying, you know, make sure you clean up the apartment. If you don't, I know where you're moving to. I remember. Everybody knows.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, everyone knows everything about you. Like, there's. There's pretty.

[Dave]

This is.

[Trevor Noah]

This is your life.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

Forevermore.

[Zoran Mamdani]

This is.

[Trevor Noah]

This is your life. It'll never be the same after this moment.

[Zoran Mamdani]

It won't. It won't. But I think that's what I love, though, is that you learn different parts of the city because of what your life is like now. You know, I think, like, for my wife and I, we going out at night, like, going for a walk at night, it has a different kind of meaning now because it's where we can find a little bit of anonymity. Right. And so you start to appreciate the city at an hour that you otherwise wouldn't have gone before because you didn't have to make that kind of a decision.

[Trevor Noah]

Oh, okay.

[Eugene]

Do you have a night voice?

[Trevor Noah]

It would be.

[Dave]

I'm Zoran.

[Eugene]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

You can't still be Zoran with a night voice.

[Eugene]

Who?

[Trevor Noah]

Mr. Cardamom.

[Dave]

Yes. Yes.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Mayor Cardamom.

[Trevor Noah]

Mayor Cardamom to you. When the knights of New York get rough and Zoron can't do it, I'm here.

[Dave]

Yes. That's it.

[Trevor Noah]

Don't go anywhere because we got more. What now? After this?

[Zoran Mamdani]

Your new home is now ready. Dr. Horton, America's builder, has new homes that are ready today with new construction communities in Ellensburg and throughout the Greater Seattle area. Dr. Horton has the right home for you at Dr. Horton. We're still building with flexible living spaces, smart home technology, and two and three car garages. More communities and more homes available every, every day. Find your new home in Ellensburg now ready@doctor Horton.com. Dr. Horton, America's builder and equal housing opportunity builder with Venmo Stash.

[Trevor Noah]

A taco on one hand and ordering a ride in the other means you're stacking cash back with Venmo Stash. Get up to 5% cash back when you pick a bundle of your favorite brands. Earn more cash when you do more with Stash. Venmo Stash terms exclusion supply match.

[Dave]

$100 cash back per month.

[Trevor Noah]

See terms @venmo me stashterms. A massage chair might seem a bit extravagant, but especially these days. Eight different settings, adjustable intensity. Plus it's heated and it just feels so good. Yes, a massage chair might seem a bit extravagant, but when it can come with a car, suddenly it seems quite practical. The Volkswagen Tiguan, packed with premium features like available massaging front seats, it only feels extravagant. That's what I'm talking about. All right, so I know we don't have a lot of time with you, so I wanted. I spent a lot of time thinking about this. I was like, you're a very busy person now, and, you know, you're doing all these things. I was trying to think, if somebody was watching this episode, what would they hope to get from the conversation? There were only three things that really, really stuck out for me, like three. Three larger ideas. One was how you see the future of New York City, how you want to build it, how you want to change it, what you want to improve, what you think the challenges will be, et cetera. It's like the job job part of it. The second part of it is the human being. And the reason I say that is because in everything that I've seen of yours, genuinely, it's either like caricatures of people who hate you or just like pieces about what you want to do. But people sort of don't know you. You and I. I think a lot of people would. Would like to know who the human being is behind some of these ideas. And then the last part is just like random shit that we'll talk about about, like. Cause you're also like, a person you see, like now you did a joke with us. I think you're the first politician I know who's ever told me, like, a joke. Maybe Obama was the first time where I was like, oh, this person actually knows humor. Do you know what I mean? But you're just like a dude. He's just like a guy.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Just a guy.

[Dave]

He is at night. He's Karama. Oh, man.

[Trevor Noah]

So let's. Okay, let's talk about New York.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Wait, hold on. Where are you from?

[Eugene]

South Africa.

[Zoran Mamdani]

We're in South Africa.

[Eugene]

Born in Pretoria.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Okay.

[Trevor Noah]

But now living. This comes against our time, by the way.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Sorry.

[Trevor Noah]

You know I love you, Eugene. I just want to know if this counts against our time.

[Eugene]

What did you say?

[Trevor Noah]

Does this count against us?

[Eugene]

No, before that.

[Trevor Noah]

You know I love you, Eugene.

[Zoran Mamdani]

You finally got it. You finally got it. How many podcast episodes does this take?

[Dave]

15.

[Eugene]

Thank you.

[Zoran Mamdani]

You are loved. Thank you.

[Dave]

You are seen.

[Eugene]

Thank you.

[Zoran Mamdani]

You are enough.

[Eugene]

This is what it took.

[Trevor Noah]

So is this.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Come on.

[Trevor Noah]

Johannesburg by way of Pretoria, South Africa.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Josie, stand up.

[Dave]

Come on.

[Trevor Noah]

You know. You know this. You know this. So let's talk about New York. And then. And then we'll go. We'll go through your life.

[Dave]

Sorry, Eugene.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Sorry.

[Trevor Noah]

Cuz now they're going to be like.

[Dave]

You'Ve run out of time.

[Trevor Noah]

And then I'll be like, some of that time was taken by Eugene. Just. You know, we can even do. We can edit you in saying things about your life. We just will.

[Dave]

When you leave, you.

[Trevor Noah]

You're just going to sit here and just be like. And then I. And we'll put that in.

[Eugene]

And we'll call Ryan to double.

[Trevor Noah]

And then we'll put a stunt double in. Ryan, you'll be Zoron stunt double. And then you must just like. Yeah, but anyway, so let's. Let's.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Sorry.

[Trevor Noah]

Actually run us through the process. Right. Like, what's. What's. What are the orders of business that you. That you're doing right now? Like, let's. Let's. Let's go from the shortest term and let's build out as. As. As. As your. Your job as mayor. So what are you doing right now?

[Zoran Mamdani]

Right now is the transition period. Okay. So right now is the time where we are vetting applicants who are making hiring decisions. We're building out the team. So it's this. It's. It's a bit of a strange period because everyone knows about the election, everyone knows about January 1st, and then you have these two months in between. And so typically in these two months, it's a lot of kind of pomp and pageantry.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Zoran Mamdani]

We want to get ahead of January 1st. We want to make the decisions and the appointments in advance of January 1st. And what this also means is we want to build that team.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay.

[Zoran Mamdani]

So so far, we have made a few decisions of first deputy mayor, you know, chief of staff, police commissioner, and then in the next few weeks, we have to start filling out additional top positions.

[Trevor Noah]

What do you base that on when you're picking that? And the reason I ask this is because you're such a unique candidate. Right. So if you had come through the regular pipeline of. Oh, establishment. Establishment. I almost feel like it would have been pre picked for you in a weird way.

[Zoran Mamdani]

It would have been who you knew.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah. Because we always see that happen. Right. It's like when Hillary Clinton was running, then you'd be like, the person she's gonna pick is the person who used to be the person who used to be the person you're like, oh, it's all like the same team. And then you just shift around. Who's where. You get what I'm saying. Yours is different, though. So how do you pick and where do you pick?

[Zoran Mamdani]

I think it's on an assessment of the work that people have done. And it's quite liberating, actually, to come into this position and not have to owe favors, you know, not be, like, unburdened. You're just actually making decisions based on, do you think this person can do the job? How can they show you that they've already done the job? And you're looking for this combination of a fluency with what it looks like to work within government and an imagination that is unburdened by the difficulties of working within that government.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay, right.

[Zoran Mamdani]

So sometimes you would think that the more time you spend in government, the less ambitious you become about what you can do within government.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Zoran Mamdani]

But one of the reasons that I hired Dean Fulahan to be my first deputy mayor, he had served 47 years in working in government at the city and the state level, is the first time we sat down for Adhani chai at Kahwa House.

[Dave]

He.

[Zoran Mamdani]

He told me about how he treated.

[Trevor Noah]

Like the drink.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Like the drink.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay. You ever heard of just making sure, Ryan? Have I had it? I'm assuming I've had variations of it. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

[Dave]

The closest.

[Trevor Noah]

The closest. Yeah, but you weren't with me drinking.

[Eugene]

You owe.

[Trevor Noah]

He monitors.

[Dave]

He monitors apology.

[Eugene]

You owe.

[Trevor Noah]

I apologize.

[Zoran Mamdani]

I accept shop.

[Trevor Noah]

But, yes, I've had chai. Yes. So. So, yeah. So you were sitting down, having chai.

[Zoran Mamdani]

And he talked about how he transformed the culture of the Office of Management and Budget from a culture of no to a culture of how. And to me, that is an example of what we're trying to do with government. Because when you'll say you have an ambitious policy proposal, you want to deliver universal childcare, you want to make buses fast and free, there will be so many people you can find who can tell you it's impossible to do that.

[Trevor Noah]

Right?

[Zoran Mamdani]

And the people you're actually looking for are not the one who tell you it's easy. They're the ones who tell you it's difficult. And here's how they're actually gonna do it.

[Trevor Noah]

So you're interviewing people for the job, or you're picking people for the job, and you're trying to find a balance between the people who've shown that they can do it. But then I'm assuming you're also interviewing people who, like you, are new to a position. Cause that's. That's the weird paradox, right? You've never been mayor of New York, and now you are going to be mayor of New York. So how do you then judge a person who's never done the job? Like what? What are you looking for in those people? Where you go, hey, you haven't done this, but I think you can vision.

[Zoran Mamdani]

You're looking to hear from them about how they would actually transform the position that you're asking them about. There's a real temptation, especially when you're looking at a job of this scale and you're looking at, you know, we're talking about positions that oversee agencies of tens of thousands of people. There's a temptation to say, I'm just going to keep the trains running on time. But that's not enough. That's not enough in a city that's the most expensive in the United States of America. It's not enough in a city where one in four people live in poverty. You have to both be able to continue to operate things as they are. And push them forward to delivering the city we deserve.

[Trevor Noah]

Why do you think or do you think? Cause, I mean, I do. So I don't wanna bias you, but like, it feels like, particularly in America and maybe other parts of the world, it feels like conservatives have been pretty good at imagining and hoping. And then liberals or progressives or however people wanna, you know, left side of the spectrum have sort of adopted this idea of like, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. Let's just keep it working well. And you can't really change much. You can't. Like, do you know how many interviews of yours I've watched where people say, zoran, now I agree with your politics. I love what you're saying, but I just don't know that we can do it. I just don't think you'll be able to get it done. I just don't. But not once have I seen somebody interviewing, like Trump, for instance, on a right wing platform go like, ah, dawg, I don't know about that wall. I don't know, man. That's a big ass wall. How you gonna do it? Do you get what I'm saying?

[Zoran Mamdani]

I do. I think it's, it's. You have people. It seems like Republicans have a limitless imagination.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Zoran Mamdani]

And as Democrats, we're constructing an ever lowering ceiling of possibility. It's. It's right here.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Zoran Mamdani]

You know, and we are robbing ourselves of ambition and imagination and we're telling people that their choice is between settling or sacrifice. And neither of these are enough. You have to have an affirmative vision of how life can be better than this because this life already is suffocating people.

[Trevor Noah]

I sometimes think it's because of the decline of religion on the left.

[Eugene]

Tell us more.

[Dave]

I could pro.

[Trevor Noah]

I. Look, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. And you know, you will tell me.

[Eugene]

Wait, if there's one thing I will tell you, hello.

[Dave]

Is when I'm wrong, am I allowed to speak?

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, I like that you say that into a microphone as if the microphone wasn't placed there for the possibility that you may speak.

[Dave]

Am I allowed to speak?

[Trevor Noah]

You literally look. You know what you look like right now? You look like somebody at those, like, town halls where they came from the crowd and then they don't know how anything works.

[Eugene]

Or Ed Checkers, he's about to make an announcement.

[Trevor Noah]

But let me, let me say this point and then, yes, let me say. So this is.

[Dave]

Before you say this point though, ok? Did you steal this point from me?

[Trevor Noah]

There's a distinct possibility.

[Dave]

Okay. As friends okay, no, no, continue, continue as friends.

[Trevor Noah]

I mean, I don't know how you are with your friends, but if my friend has a great idea, it's mine. It becomes a part of my, my thinking.

[Eugene]

This, this point might have come by way of a friendship. Tap away.

[Trevor Noah]

That's exactly what it is.

[Eugene]

And when it was open, no one was taking responsibility for what?

[Trevor Noah]

Preach, Eugene, preach. Tell people about these relationship Tupperwares, huh? Instead of focusing on where the Tupperware ends up, you should focus on the fact that your friend took the meal that was inside the Tupperware, enjoyed it and enjoyed it and shared it, but.

[Zoran Mamdani]

He may return it with another meal inside.

[Trevor Noah]

That's true. That's true. Many of the ideas that you have came from me.

[Eugene]

And some of that.

[Dave]

Which idea of yours did I know?

[Trevor Noah]

So the, the owner of the idea.

[Dave]

To me.

[Trevor Noah]

The owner of the idea is not important. I think good ideas should live beyond people. But if you think about religion and how in most parts of the world religion is declining, but it's declining in areas where people are particularly left leaning or progressive or. You know what I mean? You see it.

[Eugene]

I don't think religion is the type. I think faith is declining.

[Dave]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

But the two have been combined for a long time. Yeah, absolutely.

[Eugene]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

And one of the things that like faith requires of you is the ability to believe that this current state that you are in is not the end. There is a possibility that something can be greater and even though you cannot see it, you believe that it can happen. It requires literally everything that you just said. Do you know what I mean?

[Zoran Mamdani]

Yeah. And I think that I've found over the course of the campaign that it's often in houses of worship where New Yorkers still have that trust, really still have that faith, and it's by and large lost when it comes to politics. You know, I mean, there are so many people who look at politics as irrelevant to their material struggles on a day to day basis. And part of that is because of their own experiences of believing in politicians who have not delivered and thinking that the rational decision is to take as much space as you can.

[Trevor Noah]

How do you, how do you find? Just real quick, I just want to know, like, this is a difficult one, like with delivery. How do you think the public should judge a politician's delivery or lack thereof? Because some things that people set out to do won't be achieved because that's how life is. You aim for something and you fail. Right. And then some are because of regulation or kickbacks or, you know, corporations or lobbyists or. So one part of it is because of like a mud and a sludge. And then the other one is because just life is like that. So how would you like people to judge you when you're in the mayorship and go, all right, Zoran, this thing you did achieve. So that's one side. But for the things that you, you didn't like, how would you want people to judge your. Your failures, which are inevitable in anything that people do?

[Zoran Mamdani]

We, we built a campaign around three policy commitments.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Freezing the rent for rent. Stabilized tenants. Making the slowest buses in America fast and free. Delivering universal childcare. We have to deliver these things.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay? And that's non negotiable to me.

[Zoran Mamdani]

I think it's every day I'm going to wake up pushing these three things forward. And there's no question there are. This is incredibly difficult work. There are things you will try and you will fail. I think what, what frustrates so many is that there are so many things where it looks like someone is not even trying. Yeah, they are just admitting defeat from the beginning. You know, they're describing something as unrealistic or impossible. Madiba said it always seems impossible until it's done.

[Trevor Noah]

Nelson Mandela, for those who don't know.

[Dave]

Can I ask a question?

[Trevor Noah]

You're gonna say, Nelson Mandela took that from you as well.

[Dave]

I know how you work. I know the shit that you want to say.

[Trevor Noah]

He's gonna be like, where did he get that idea?

[Dave]

Where did he get that idea? Who was in prison with him?

[Trevor Noah]

Mr. Oh, I'm the only person with ideas. Please share some with us.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Dave, before you say something, I'd like.

[Eugene]

To say it probably wasn't his idea because he's been quiet. When you started speaking, you didn't say anything.

[Dave]

The title was my idea. You know when you get those movies that have the same title, but it's a different movie. The title was my idea.

[Trevor Noah]

But like the one where the.

[Eugene]

Oh, no, never mind.

[Dave]

Okay, so now, Mayor Elect Mamdani, do you know your powers? You know, like, because you run for mayor, but at some point there's like, you have powers. Certain powers. Do you know them all? Is, do they give you like a book? These are your actual powers.

[Zoran Mamdani]

They, they don't give you a book.

[Dave]

Do you know? I'm saying. You know what I mean?

[Zoran Mamdani]

Like, no, I, I do. I have, I have definitely an awareness of, of what power this jobs comes with. I'll give you an example on the three policies I was speaking of. The first one, freezing the Rent for rent stabilized tenants. City of eight and a half million people, about two and a half million live in housing called rent stabilized house. Okay, right.

[Trevor Noah]

And what does that mean? Just because I. I see people conflate. Stabilized versus rent control is a very small proportion. Help us understand, what is rent stabilized? What does that mean?

[Zoran Mamdani]

Rent stabilized basically applies to half of all tenants in New York City.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay.

[Zoran Mamdani]

And it means that their rent, whether it will increase or stay the same, is determined by a board called the Rent Guidelines Board.

[Dave]

Okay.

[Zoran Mamdani]

The board is composed of nine appointees, all of whom are appointed by the mayor. Yes. So we have seen this board freeze the rent in the past. We have seen this board raise the rent like it has under Eric Adams, more than 12%. So when I talk about freezing the rent, I'm talking about this board composed of mayoral appointees finally giving tenants the relief that they deserve. Okay?

[Dave]

So that. Sorry, just to clear that up. So that is like, you know, you know, the question. Because sometimes when it comes to politics, people will be like, you know, you vote the person in, then later on it's like, no, technically, I didn't have that power. You know. You know, that kind of people try.

[Zoran Mamdani]

To obfuscate what their responsibility. I think the second and the third points that I brought up of making buses fast and free, delivering universal childcare, these are things that have to be done in partnership with Albany state government. Right. The reason that it was at a core part of my campaign, though, is any mayor with an agenda that is as ambitious as the crisis in front of them will require. State partnership, okay? Because the city is effectively a creature of the state, especially after the 1970s fiscal crisis. So one of the most impressive achie in city politics in the last few decades was the creation of universal pre k that was done by the previous mayor, who, Mayor de Blasio, who ran on that as part of his agenda, needed Albany to get it done. There were all these articles written about how it was unrealistic. He went up against a governor who was very much opposed to it, and he won the funding for that because of the coalition that he built.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay?

[Zoran Mamdani]

And so my point here is that there are some things you can do directly yourself. There are other things you will have to build the coalition around you to do. But all of these things have to be part and parcel of it. Because I can tell you, to my mind, one of the most frustrating things you can tell a New Yorker when they call your district office is, oh, that's not. That's not actually my jurisdiction yeah, you should call this person or you should call at that level. Being the mayor of this city comes with immense power. Not to say total power at all, but immense power to at least start an agenda and then start to deliver that agenda when you build the coalition you need. That's where I see the possibility in these three things.

[Trevor Noah]

So.

[Dave]

Okay, great. This is great.

[Trevor Noah]

Wait. You know, when you say the thing about the Book of Power, it makes me think of, like. I think you and I actually had this conversation. We talked about how.

[Dave]

Mostly me giving ideas.

[Trevor Noah]

We talked about how, again, I don't care where good ideas come from. No, you know, my idea is people shouldn't worry about their egos.

[Dave]

But.

[Trevor Noah]

No, but we had this conversation about. We talked about. We're talking about Trump, and we literally. We joked and we said, it feels like Trump was the first person to read that book. Do you know what I mean? Because there's so many things. It can be done. No, because there's so many things where Trump is doing it. And then people are like, can a president do that? And then it's like, oh, yeah, he can. And you're like, wait, wait, wait, wait. We didn't know that you could do all of these things. And I think that's sort of what the question is.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Yeah, And I think it's. Look, we have this transition. We have four incredible co chairs. One of them is Lina Khan and Lina Khan.

[Trevor Noah]

Can we get Lina Khan on the show? By the way, she's one of my favorite human beings.

[Dave]

No.

[Trevor Noah]

Can I tell you, I. We'll have a separate conversation about this. I'll tell you why I take away from our time. Yes, but it's. But it'll add time value. It'll add value. No, I'll tell you why. Lena Khan, like you seen on a wall of, like, superheroes, the way I hate monopolies. Mergers acquisitions. And you know this as my friends.

[Eugene]

Orlando Pirates.

[Trevor Noah]

I don't think that counts.

[Zoran Mamdani]

What about the Orlando Pirates?

[Eugene]

What if I have to. But thank you for punching things. He hates.

[Dave]

What the hell?

[Zoran Mamdani]

Merger, acquisitions.

[Trevor Noah]

Kaiser Chiefs.

[Dave]

Oh, man, my brain.

[Trevor Noah]

Like Orlando Pirates. Cortes with no Russian.

[Dave]

No.

[Trevor Noah]

Anyway, she's. I'll tell you, she's a hero because I. I think she taps into. And I think that's maybe why you picked a. Part of it is she taps into the understanding that not everything is happening on the surface the way you think it is. And then you go, like, why did that happen? Why did that happen? And she's like, oh, let me show you where it Started like she's at the origin story of a lot of these things.

[Zoran Mamdani]

And she spoke about that when she first got to her job. She felt like she was experiencing the great forgetting where she got there. And it felt as if so many people working in government had forgotten the tools they had at their disposal.

[Trevor Noah]

You see, that's what I'm.

[Eugene]

Nailed it.

[Zoran Mamdani]

And I think, I think we. It's, it's. There is a need for imagination for the new kinds of policies and proposals you put forward and also an ambition to use your existing set of tools.

[Dave]

Yeah.

[Zoran Mamdani]

To actually transform people's lives.

[Trevor Noah]

Don't go anywhere. Cause we got more. What now after this. Hey, Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile. You know one of the perks about having four kids that you know about is actually getting a direct line to the big man up north. And this year he wants you to know the best gift that you can give someone is the gift of Mint Mobile's unlimited wireless for $15 a month. Now you don't even need to wrap it. Give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment of $45 for three month plan equivalent to $15 per month. Required new customer offer for first three months only.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Speed slow after 35 gigabytes if network's busy.

[Trevor Noah]

Taxes and fees extra. See mintmobile.com. Do you think.

[Dave]

Can I. Just one more question.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Just. Sorry, Sorry.

[Eugene]

Really?

[Zoran Mamdani]

This is.

[Dave]

Now he's not.

[Eugene]

Sorry.

[Dave]

Okay, I'm sorry. Okay. One more question now just to wrap up the Powers thing. Do we all agree as New Yorkers that ambulances are too loud? Oh, I feel like this has turned, this has literally turned into those.

[Trevor Noah]

It really has turned into a town hall.

[Dave]

No, I'm just.

[Trevor Noah]

No, your posture. Can I tell you, I always look at. When I watch town halls and people come up and do this thing, I'm always like, who are these people? I didn't know I'm friends with one of them. Hey, yeah, like the posture, the everything. Just like can we all agree that ambulances are too loud also?

[Zoran Mamdani]

And speaking of powers.

[Dave]

Yes, exactly. Here's my pet issue. But yes, he like we're talking about mergers and acquisitions.

[Eugene]

I like how Dave gave himself citizenship as citizens. Yeah, yeah, you kind of.

[Dave]

Wait, wait, wait, wait.

[Trevor Noah]

Dave, Dave, wait. No, but actually I do like this question because I think you know why? As I get it, macro versus micro. I think these are like the nice things to try and understand. I'll, I'll interpret for you. Yes.

[Dave]

So now one, we all agree that ambulances are too loud.

[Trevor Noah]

Way Too loud in New York.

[Dave]

Way too loud.

[Trevor Noah]

I agree.

[Dave]

They're too loud.

[Trevor Noah]

They're way too loud.

[Dave]

One ambulance and the entire Manhattan knows that you know that.

[Trevor Noah]

Yes, I agree. You don't even know.

[Eugene]

About to lose their lives.

[Dave]

You don't know.

[Trevor Noah]

You don't even know. Is that too much of a difference? No. Eugene tell you? No, let me explain. Someone is in Eugene. Wait, let me explain. Let me explain. This is what Dave means. Really? You don't even know where it's coming from. It's pointless. At some point, it knows where it's going.

[Eugene]

That's the most important.

[Trevor Noah]

Nobody knows where it's coming. But anyway, finish asking it.

[Eugene]

Cool.

[Dave]

So now would you say that. That in some way or form the citizens of New York, both documented, undocumented. I'm not even joking. Because you're trying to expose me. But.

[Trevor Noah]

Trying.

[Dave]

But would you say that it is that you pledge to have a. Like some sort of database? Not database, but link so that we can see what's inside the ambulance?

[Eugene]

This is Castapo.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Oh, because I never knew where the next.

[Dave]

Welcome to Dave.

[Trevor Noah]

Welcome.

[Dave]

Today if there was a review of Dave. So if it's too loud, you want.

[Zoran Mamdani]

To know what's happening inside?

[Eugene]

Can I tell you?

[Trevor Noah]

No.

[Dave]

Can I tell you?

[Eugene]

You want to know?

[Trevor Noah]

I think.

[Zoran Mamdani]

I think what he wants to know.

[Eugene]

Is, is it justified being loud?

[Zoran Mamdani]

Yes.

[Eugene]

Has the person stubbed their toe?

[Dave]

Yes.

[Eugene]

Or is this person in cardiac arrest?

[Trevor Noah]

No. But more importantly, are you asking or.

[Dave]

You decrease the volume. Do you know what I mean? If not everybody is having an emergency the way these ambulances tell us, that's not possible. So do you regret being mayor yet? I'm saying this is your life, you know?

[Trevor Noah]

This is your life.

[Dave]

In your book of powers, you're. This is my life. Anyway, you're going to be having dinner. You're going to be having dinner, and.

[Trevor Noah]

This guy's coming up.

[Dave]

I know too many guys like this. Anyway, no, now I'm the mayor. I still know this guy. No, because you have these. You have these. These big ideas. That's what I'm saying. In your book, I'm sure you can say that. And most people will agree. Most people will. No, no, no. Because we all agree at some point we're gonna need an ambulance.

[Trevor Noah]

Small injury, small.

[Dave]

Small siren, Small siren, big injury, big siren.

[Trevor Noah]

No. Now, on a real, though, can you, like, are those the kinds of things that you actually can do unilaterally or do you need to, like, is there a board? Is there.

[Zoran Mamdani]

No, I think on this question.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it. I mean, I know it sounds crazy.

[Zoran Mamdani]

No idea.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay. Okay. What about.

[Eugene]

What about.

[Dave]

So you don't know what's in the book.

[Eugene]

I am not gonna sit here.

[Dave]

So you don't know what, to pretend that I even know the process by which you would consider trading volume for severity of literacy. No, you don't know what's in the book. That's the thing.

[Trevor Noah]

Thank you, sir.

[Dave]

Thank you, sir. It could be in the book.

[Trevor Noah]

Thank you for your time, sir. Thank you.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Thank you.

[Trevor Noah]

As you can see. So Dave definitely lives in New York and experiences this. This is actually what I. What I love about it is, like, as you. As you're building up in this transition and you're getting ready for these things, how do you find. So you have these three big policies that you've run on. You've gone rent. We are aiming to freeze the rent, especially where we can immediately and then work on helping other people. The second thing you're going with is the buses. They need to be faster, they need to be free. And the third thing you're working on is the child care. And number four is day, number four is Dave.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Right.

[Dave]

So, I mean, you've made it. You've made it, you've made it, you've made it.

[Zoran Mamdani]

At this point, yeah, it's the only way out.

[Trevor Noah]

So my. My question is, when you're in that, is there. Is there a system for you as mayor to go, These things are small but annoying, and they actually make a difference in people's lives. Like. Like this, the sound of sirens, or for instance, or like, how do you. How do you find those balances?

[Zoran Mamdani]

I think this is. It's. It's not just that that government has often said a crisis is too big, we cannot tackle it. It's also that government has said this issue is too small, it's not worth our time. And as much. As much as we laugh, issues of this scale, whether it be the sound of something or the noise of something or these two New Yorkers are examples of a city that's not working for them. Yes, it is, actually, whatever it may be. And you need to be able to prove that your city government takes it seriously. Because wherever you are losing people's faith, losing people's trust, that's also where you're losing their faith and trust in an ambitious agenda. You know, I was at a town hall with an incoming city council member, his name is Ty, at Rochdale Village in southeast Queens, and an older woman got up and she had a question for me, she said, will you honor a promise that was made to be multiple mayoral administrations ago? And I was like, what is this promise going to be? And she said, they promised to put a speed bump at this corner and it hadn't been done for more than a decade. And I was thinking to myself, how could I ask her to believe in the possibility of delivering universal childcare if the same government couldn't even get her.

[Trevor Noah]

A speed bump that they had promised.

[Zoran Mamdani]

That they had promised more than a decade ago? Because when you betray that promise. Yeah, you are telling that New Yorker that they should not look to city government as something or someone that could deliver on their needs. And they start to turn away. And then when you ask ourselves, why aren't more people voting? Why aren't more people invested? Why aren't people engaged? A lot of it is based on experiences like this where the best that they can hope for from their city government is neglect or ignorance. And we have to win people back through the power of example. You can't finger wag your way to getting someone invested in the politics of their own city. You have to prove it to them. You have to prove that you were right to believe. And here we are actually delivering it. I don't know if I can prove it to you, Dave, but.

[Trevor Noah]

Can I say, although I joined the mob in laughing at you, I will say, though, this is an issue that I fully stand on.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Which part of the issue? No, no.

[Eugene]

The ambulances or silence?

[Trevor Noah]

I'll tell you why. No, I'll tell you why. It's an idea that I've had that maybe I got from you. And this idea has always been. This idea has always been. There's a. There's a disconnect in politics and in the management of cities, countries, states, et cetera, where there are the things that will dramatically change your life that are actual things that you need to happen. And then there are things that make you think your life is getting better or getting worse, but they aren't actually. And it's a strange thing that people have in society. You know what I mean? Some things can make people feel safer. Some things actually make you safer. Some things can make you feel like a city's functioning, some things actually make it function. And I'm always.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Perception and reality.

[Trevor Noah]

I'm always intrigued around, like how a politician manages that. When you get into that position, how do you manage that perception? So sirens is a good one. When you live in a city where you constantly hear sirens, it seems like something's always going wrong. Recently, when I traveled to London, Amsterdam, all these, I was. I was shocked at how quiet it was, but it took me a while to realize something was, like, missing. And then you're like, wait, it's quiet. And the quiet just makes you feel.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Like, where's Dave.

[Trevor Noah]

Man? Can I tell you something?

[Dave]

Can I tell you something? Your timing is impeccable.

[Trevor Noah]

This Uganda on Uganda violence.

[Dave]

I'm here for it. I'm here for it.

[Trevor Noah]

All I'm waiting for Zoran to turn and do is look at you and.

[Dave]

Be like, why are you Dave? Why are you Dave? Are you not Dave?

[Trevor Noah]

Okay, so help me. Help me understand why you chose the three, the freezing, the rent. That, I mean, I hope is self explanatory to everybody. The cost of living is. It's unsustainable in New York and in many places in the world. If people cannot afford to live, then they don't even want to be part of that society. The buses. Help me understand why foster buses and free buses.

[Zoran Mamdani]

So these are the slowest buses in America.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay. That's not like. What do you mean by that? Like, the speed that they go.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Right. We're talking about an average speed in certain parts of Manhattan, around five miles an hour.

[Trevor Noah]

There's like. That's walking.

[Zoran Mamdani]

You can. You can beat running.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Zoran Mamdani]

And what we see is that more than a million New Yorkers ride the bus.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay.

[Zoran Mamdani]

It costs $2.90. That is out of reach for one in five New Yorkers. Wow. So when you make the bus free, you not only provide economic relief where you ensure that it's universally accessible, you also actually make it safer. We did this at the state legislature. I've been a state assembly member for a few years.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Zoran Mamdani]

And I worked with Mike Gianaras, a state senator. We made five bus routes free in New York City. When we made those bus routes free, after a year, assaults on bus drivers dropped by 38.9%.

[Trevor Noah]

On the bus drivers.

[Zoran Mamdani]

On the bus drivers, because unlike the train, the act of fare collection on the bus happens on the bus.

[Trevor Noah]

It's there, dropped.

[Zoran Mamdani]

And bus drivers and unions have shared anecdotally that about 50% of assaults happen around the farebox. So when you eliminate the farebox, you make for a safer experience for the bus driver, for everyone on the bus. And what's fascinating, back to the point you were just making about perception and reality, is when they made a few bus routes free in Boston under Mayor wu's leadership, they found that even more than the safety that was provided is that people felt Safer to even hire you.

[Dave]

Right.

[Zoran Mamdani]

We saw this as well in Kansas City to varying extents in different parts of the country. And it has the economic benefits, has the public safety benefits, and even has benefits of bringing people who would otherwise be driving their car or taking a taxi and getting them on the bus. More than 10% of the new riders on these five bus routes were otherwise going to use private.

[Trevor Noah]

So it becomes economically viable for them.

[Zoran Mamdani]

And I think what it comes back to is that if you pair the making of the bus free, which then also enables you to use any door to board, you don't have to wait behind anyone who's looking for their MetroCard or used to be looking for their coins. You can just board and exit. You speed up the time at each bus stop in, in Boston, you cut the dwell time by 23%. So there's a speed that's incorporated in this. And then the other part of this is that the city owns its own streets. The city can speed up a bus through the infrastructure it chooses to build or not to build.

[Trevor Noah]

Got it.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Bus lanes, busways, bus rapid transit. It's a political choice that that bus is traveling at five miles an hour. You can make that bus be the most obvious way to get around the city right now. So often New Yorkers are taking the bus because they have no other option. We want it to be such that it is the option you choose. So that's what it comes back to. And the other part of this is this is disproportionately hurting working class New Yorkers.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Because a bus rider, the average salary of a bus rider is around $30,000 a year.

[Dave]

Right.

[Zoran Mamdani]

We are talking about the most working class New Yorkers who are dealing with some of the most substandard public transit. And it's a political choice.

[Trevor Noah]

It feels like New York has, like many cities in the world, fallen into the trap of fixing what needs to be fixed for the wealthy and then sort of ignoring or pushing aside the problems that affect the poor.

[Zoran Mamdani]

I mean, I think about. I think about when you fly. Yeah. We have made it such a difficult experience to go through TSA that there's now a financial incentive to sign up for a separate program that can move you through it quicker.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Zoran Mamdani]

I mean, we have monetized the dysfunction of flying.

[Trevor Noah]

Do you think that's by design, though?

[Zoran Mamdani]

I'm gonna leave that to you and Dave, man.

[Eugene]

Yeah. Convenience is up for sale.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Absolutely.

[Eugene]

I mean, convenience has been up for sale for the longer.

[Zoran Mamdani]

But it's absurd to me that, that you should have to pay for the experience that you should already be getting. You were already paid. This is.

[Dave]

Anyway, this is a, this is a real question.

[Trevor Noah]

I thought you said normal questions.

[Dave]

No, no. Oh, on that topic. Oh, on that topic, there's a real, real question on the buses. How come you didn't go with like, the people who were paying can. Who you know, because some people not don't mind paying, but they like, they can pay in a way to keep the revenue coming in. And then people who can't pay.

[Zoran Mamdani]

This is a good question.

[Dave]

Can't pay. Then they have a way of like.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Okay, so this is in effect a question about universal approach versus means tested. Means tested would say if you make a certain income or less, then you should be eligible for a reduction in your fare or the elimination of your fare. There already exists a program in New York City called Fair Fares where if you make a certain amount of money or less, you'll get a reduced fare. The mta, by last estimate, when they were testifying at the state, they said about 40% of eligible new Yorkers are enrolled. The question was asked to them, what would success look like? They said 50%. So success looks like leaving 50% of your eligible population out of your program. And so whenever you create a means tested program, you are comfortable to some level with saying goodbye to people who would be eligible for it. Because you know the hurdles of creating a bureaucratic system of, of proving eligibility, of applying, of receiving, and then of using versus if you make something free at point of use, you capture the entirety of everyone you're looking to serve. And this is the difference is that the safety of that bus, the efficacy of how it is moving, the question of the doors, all of this is tied to the elimination of fare at once. And when we made those five bus routes free, we found the most significant increase in riders was among New Yorkers making $28,000 a year or less. They're already eligible for fairfares, but less than 20% of them were enrolled in that program. So that, to me, is if you are serious about reaching everyone.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Then here's how you do it.

[Trevor Noah]

You know what it's similar to? Funny enough, it's similar to what I feel like they're doing with voting in America. Right. They are systematically making it harder and harder for people to vote, but basing it like the premise is, no, no, no, it's super easy to vote. All you have to do is. All you have to do is. All you have to do is all you have to do. Is all you have to do. You know what I mean? It's like, get this id. Oh, but this new type of ID needs this type of identification. And then it's like, well, which ones do you accept? Oh, your gun one. Oh, we take the gun one. NRA will work. Oh, but this one doesn't work. And this one. Do you know what I mean?

[Zoran Mamdani]

It should be.

[Trevor Noah]

And then to your point, yeah. And more importantly, it's the trick of saying it's free, you free to enter, but then the process of coming in is not really free. Do you know what I mean?

[Eugene]

Yeah, yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

It's like the trick of the interns, like, to be an intern, you've got to be a pretty rich kid. I work for free. Yeah, but do you know how much you have to earn to work for free? And I feel like that's what you're tapping into with the childcare thing. Is that a similar.

[Eugene]

No, wait, wait, wait.

[Trevor Noah]

But there's similar principles. Is like with the childcare thing. What do you think? I mean, it seems obvious. Some people would go, and we've seen discussions around this, you know, privatization and stuff. They'd be like, oh, the private sector should be dealing with this. Why is the government getting involved in child care? Shouldn't just, you know, companies provide childcare? Why do you think it's important for the state to step in, for the, for the city to step in?

[Zoran Mamdani]

Well, look, when the city and the state doesn't step in, companies have to. To put forward child care benefits, child care services. Why should that be a company's job? You are seeing companies having to provide a service that should be provided by the city and the state. I mean, quite literally, you have companies that have childcare on site. You have companies that are giving annual stipends for, you know, paying towards child care. The point of this is that if we do not treat this as the social crisis that it is, it's. We are going to make. We're going to pass this cost on. And this is actually a cost that we should be bearing at a city and a state level. And the average cost of childcare in New York City for One child is $22,500.

[Trevor Noah]

But that's close to what you just said the earning, the average earning was for. I mean, that's, that's insane.

[Zoran Mamdani]

It is cheaper to send that same child 18 years later to the City University of New York than it is to find childcare for them. That's how expensive it is. And, and we often talk about delivering universal childcare in the language of how much it will cost and how difficult it will be. As if it doesn't already cost this city and state an immense amount today. In 2022, we lost $23 billion in economic activity because of the absence of universal childcare.

[Trevor Noah]

Explain how.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Because you had people leaving this city, leaving this state after housing, the number one thing driving people out of the city, childcare. They're going anywhere they can find child care for cheaper. And it's not just people whose kids they can't get child care for. It's also child care workers who cannot live off of the average salary at a home based setting of $10 an hour. Yeah, People cannot live off of that. And we keep asking ourselves why? You know, why is it so hard to raise a family in the city? It's like, look at the cost.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Zoran Mamdani]

I was sitting on the M57, the slowest bus in Manhattan a few months ago and a city worker was seated behind me. She started speaking to me about how she had two kids. The only reason she could make it work here was because her 84 year old grandmother would take care of those kids every single day.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Zoran Mamdani]

And she told me that when her 84 year old grandmother has to go to the doctor or she feels sick, the only option this mother has is that she has to take a sick day from work because she can't afford childcare. We are pushing people out of the city and frankly, people are feeling it when they're making 40k a year, they're feeling it when they're making 100k, they're feeling it 200k because $22,500 is an immense amount of money after tax. And we could be providing.

[Dave]

This question, this is a real question, real question. Based on we're going to run out of time.

[Trevor Noah]

Choose your last question.

[Dave]

Well, yes, based on childcare, what is this going to look like? Practically? Do you know what I mean? What does it mean?

[Trevor Noah]

Zoran's going to come look after your child.

[Dave]

No, man, come on. You see, you are now wasting my time. What is it?

[Trevor Noah]

There's never a waste of time when a joke is in. Can we all agree?

[Eugene]

Never.

[Trevor Noah]

Thank you.

[Eugene]

Never, never, never.

[Trevor Noah]

Jokes are never a waste of time.

[Eugene]

In fact, never.

[Dave]

Anyway, do you know what is it? What is it?

[Trevor Noah]

That's a great question, by the way.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Practically, you will see a system that is building on the infrastructure we already have. And what that means is it's going to be something built out that includes both center based care and home based care. Right There are many New Yorkers who feel more comfortable sending their child to a neighbor who is providing childcare for a few children on that block. There are other New Yorkers who prefer sending their child to a child care center. And we can look at Universal Pre K, which we were talking about earlier, as a model for both how it took an immense cost burden off of the backs of working families, but also how it stood up an entire infrastructure. Because this is the thing that's also missing in so much of city government is a sense of urgency, of actually being able to scale something up. And that to me, the commitment we've made delivering childcare for New yorkers from ages 5 down to 6 weeks of age. And so what we have right now is we have Universal Pre k, we have 3k in New York City, but it is broken. The first order of business is to fix 3k. And then we look at 2k, we look at 1k, we look at delivering childcare for children right now that if their parents don't have the money or they don't have a family member, we see that those parents often leave. I mean, 80% of New Yorkers with children under five cannot afford childcare in this city.

[Eugene]

80%.

[Zoran Mamdani]

80%.

[Trevor Noah]

I find myself wondering about labels a lot and how they limit our ability to think. You know, because your name synonymous socialist. And then people are trying to be disparaging communist. But you see a lot of, oh, this social. He's trying to turn America into. This guy doesn't like. And yet every time I hear you speak, you talk about how much money the thing will generate for businesses, for people themselves. For. Do you, when you think of how people process the label of socialism or the idea behind it, do you think they themselves have an understanding of what it actually means versus what they've been told it means? Do you get what I'm saying?

[Zoran Mamdani]

Yeah, I think as a, as a Muslim socialist, I'm familiar with bad PR. Good old MS, you know, those damn MS's. It's, it's a long journey to explain, but I think, you know, many people have caricatures in their head as to what it means. Yeah, I often turn to Dr. King to describe socialism. He said, call it democracy or call it democratic socialism. There must be a better distribution of wealth for all of God's children in this country. It comes back to dignity. It comes back to ensuring that whatever you need to live a dignified life that you have, that you should not be priced out of a necessity. We're not talking about want or like we're talking about need. You should not be priced out of being able to have a home to call your own, of being able to send your kid to school, be able to ride the bus. And I've found actually, that when you're speaking to New Yorkers one to one, they've actually had far fewer questions of how I describe my politics and far more of does my politics include them? Are their struggles part of my focus? And I found that there are many people who might describe themselves in a different way, but when I speak about what this would mean for New York City, they start to see themselves in that vision. And that's, I think the key of this is how is this a politics that actually reflects the struggles of working people?

[Trevor Noah]

Do you think your politics and your campaign connected with people because you actually connected with people?

[Zoran Mamdani]

I think a lot of it also had to do with the incredible team I had around me.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Zoran Mamdani]

To be honest, someone was asking me the other day about people trying to make videos the way that we made videos. And I was saying that part of it is it, it misunderstands that it's not as much who's in front of the camera. It's also who's behind the camera. You can see a distinct moment in the campaign when I stop making the videos. It's the moment when the campaign became legitimate.

[Trevor Noah]

Right, Right.

[Zoran Mamdani]

And I think that that, that losing sight of the collective and thinking it's all about the individual, it means you lose sight of how this campaign was built.

[Trevor Noah]

All right, your team is telling us we gotta wrap up. Do you promise?

[Zoran Mamdani]

Don't even talk about mzansi.

[Trevor Noah]

That's why I'm saying, do you promise to come back? Make. Let.

[Eugene]

Give.

[Trevor Noah]

Give me one. That's the only promise I want. Dave wants ambulances.

[Zoran Mamdani]

I promise to come back.

[Trevor Noah]

You promise to come back? You don't have to, by the way. You can say no, and then I don't. Look, then I don't have the promise.

[Zoran Mamdani]

This is my only way.

[Trevor Noah]

No, no. Then I don't have the promise. I don't mind. I give you the promise. All right, then. Because I, I, I'll take three minutes and then I'll let you go.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Here's a few things that I wanted to talk about.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, go away.

[Zoran Mamdani]

I want to talk about Cape Town.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, they really have to go. Like, right now. Your team is like, Right. What did you want to talk about? Cape Town.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Cape Town and Caspar Nyovest.

[Trevor Noah]

Open the door and come get him. Casper Novest.

[Zoran Mamdani]

I wanted to Talk about Cuesta.

[Dave]

Wow.

[Trevor Noah]

This guy's deepen. This guy's deep in South Africa.

[Zoran Mamdani]

I want to talk about Ricky Rick.

[Eugene]

This guy.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Rest in peace. Ricky Rick, man. Boss Zonke.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, I gotta come.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Love that song. I want to figure out how we can get major league DJs on Spotify. You're not gonna have listened to Slicer Sochi on YouTube.

[Trevor Noah]

This guy. We're gonna. We're gonna do a trilogy. This was just the policy stuff. Part two, we're gonna do Zoron's life stuff.

[Eugene]

Also, we're having the elections of mayor of Joburg next year.

[Trevor Noah]

Part three, just South Africa, if you are available. Thank you.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Thank you.

[Trevor Noah]

Thanks for. Thanks for taking him. It'd be so. It'd be so funny if you've just got like a dinner reservation that would be so blazing. No, no, no.

[Dave]

I would.

[Trevor Noah]

I'm just saying it would be funny. Anything for a joke. I don't care if you take him, if this ends in a joke. If Zoran's like, I gotta go, I gotta go. And then he gets in, like for two.

[Dave]

Table for two, please.

[Trevor Noah]

And then he gets in.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Me and Shabalala.

[Trevor Noah]

Zoran Mumdani. Thank you very much. Take. Take your men away. To be continued. We've never ended a podcast like that.

[Zoran Mamdani]

No.

[Eugene]

Never.

[Trevor Noah]

To be continued. Part one. This episode is presented by Whole Foods Market. Whole Foods Markets has everything you need for the holidays. Whether you're a guest or hosting the big dinner, Whole Foods Markets has convenience and cost friendly finds that'll delight everyone at your table. Plus great gift ideas, all of which follow the Whole Foods Market's strict ingredient standards. Shop for everything you need at Whole Foods Market, your holiday headquarters. What now with Trevor Noah is produced by Dayzero Productions in partnership with SiriusXM. The show is executive produced by Trevor Noah, Sanaz Yamin and Jess Hackle. Rebecca Chain is our producer. Our development researcher is Marcia Robio. Music mixing and mastering by Hannis Brown. Random other stuff by Ryan Harduth. Thank you so much for listening. Join me next week for another episode of what Now.