Podcast Summary: "How Trump Is Like Napoleon"

Podcast: What Really Matters with Walter Russell Mead
Host: Jeremy Stern
Guest: Walter Russell Mead
Date: August 12, 2025
Publisher: Tablet Magazine

Overview

In this episode, Jeremy Stern and Walter Russell Mead break down three current news stories—covering American education, Israeli policy in Gaza, and U.S.-China chip deals—before launching into a wide-ranging, analytical conversation drawing parallels between Donald Trump and Napoleon Bonaparte. The discussion explores the lasting impact of Trump's presidency, analogies with historical power dynamics, and what the future holds for American politics. The episode closes with audience Q&A about effective NGOs.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Public Education's Enrollment Crisis and the Future of Schools

[00:06–05:12]

• Enrollment Crisis: Sharp declines in U.S. public school enrollment are due to falling fertility rates, increased homeschooling, vouchers, and a competitive education landscape.
• District Responses: Some districts are hiring marketing consultants to woo parents back—a decision Mead derides as the "worst news" here.
  • Quote: "The worst news in there was that the first response of a lot of public school systems to competition is to hire a bunch of expensive consultants... Improving the instructional quality of their programs—few little concepts like that." (Mead, 01:20)
• Systemic Change: Mead sees the introduction of competition as "mixed but mostly good" news, underscoring the rigidity of public schooling and the need for personalized education pathways.
• AI & School Transformation: Discussion of innovative models such as Alpha School in Texas, where AI is used for self-paced academics followed by real-world skills workshops.
  • Mead is skeptical of overreliance on AI for core learning:
  • Quote: "I am not a huge enthusiast for locking kids in rooms with AI tutors like, you know, pigeons in Skinner boxes or something like that... A lot of what kids learn in school is not actually academic facts. It's socialization." (Mead, 03:28)

2. Netanyahu’s Gaza War Press Conference & Israel’s Strategic Dilemmas

[05:12–08:55]

• Netanyahu's Vision: Outlined his five-point postwar plan for Gaza, denying intent to occupy the strip, emphasizing demilitarization, and continued security oversight.
  • Mead is unconvinced this counts as "news," noting it simply reiterates longstanding Israeli government positions.
  • Quote: "Is there anybody who didn't think that this was Bibi's approach to the conflict? Were there any shocking surprises there?" (Mead, 06:17)
• Intractable Problems: Mead underscores the entrenched dilemmas in Israeli-Palestinian relations; even as Israel "wins wars," it cannot shape the peace it seeks.
  • Quote: "This is simply a concentrated form of a problem that Israel has been dealing with since the 1948 war, which is... it wins wars, but it can't establish the kind of peace that it wants." (Mead, 08:46)

3. Nvidia, Trump, and a New Era of Government-Business Bargaining with China

[08:55–15:16]

• AI Chip Deal: Nvidia and AMD will pay a 15% cut to the U.S. government for AI chip sales to China, in a deal quietly brokered between Nvidia CEO and President Trump.
  • Mead calls the arrangement "weird" and possibly scandal-prone, likening it to past massive government-business scandals.
  • Quote: "We are basically introducing a massive source of temptation into the functioning of the federal government. And sooner or later, probably sooner, somebody is going to fall for it or try to exploit it." (Mead, 09:48)
• Policy Uncertainty as Strategy: Mead highlights Trump's deliberate ambiguity ("cloud of uncertainty") as a negotiation tool, both with China and Russia.
  • Quote: "Trump wants to create a cloud of uncertainty around his China policy, just as he does his Russia policy. This is straight from Art of the Deal." (Mead, 09:48)
• Hamiltonian Tradition?: Discussion of whether the chip deal fits into a classic “Hamiltonian” (government-business alliance) tradition.
  • Mead points to the growing, complicated intertwining of U.S. government and tech, predicting it will shape culture and politics, especially regarding patriotism and elite culture.

Feature: Trump & Napoleon – A Deep-Dive Comparison

[15:16–22:20]

• Political Instincts & Disruption: Mead underscores both men's outsized political skills and ability to "see around corners," destroying traditional power structures.
  • Quote: "Napoleon and Trump both had political gifts that were... substantially above what most of their opponents possessed. So... they've been able to see around corners." (Mead, 16:01)
  • Trump’s dismantling of both the GOP and Democratic establishments is likened to Napoleon’s overthrow of the old order.
• Hybrid Approach to Power: Napoleon drew from both left and right, which made him an enemy to purists—Trump is seen as having similarly borrowed and broken molds from both sides.
• Mode of Leadership: Napoleon used military glory; Trump, though not a general, seeks to be the world's "peacemaker" and ties foreign policy to personal and domestic legitimacy.
  • Quote: "Trump wants to be the peacemaker more than a warlord. But Trump's ambition to bestride the world as a colossus is the same ambition that Napoleon had." (Mead, 19:00)
• Performance and Authority: Both leaders are described as craving ritualized displays of authority, turning global affairs into performances to reinforce domestic power.
  • Quote: "Trump turns foreign relations into this kind of performance." (Mead, 21:30)

Can There Be a "Restoration" After Trump?

[22:20–29:44]

• Restoration vs. Irrevocable Change: Stern asks if, post-Trump, American politics might return to pre-2016 norms—akin to the post-Napoleon Bourbon Restoration.
• Mead’s Take: Trump is more an effect than a cause—deep structural and cultural shifts would have produced change regardless, but Trump’s improvisational brilliance accelerated and shaped it.
  • Quote: "Trump has always struck me as less cause than effect of the changes in America... at some point, these were bound to break out of the old molds. The river was going to overflow the banks, and Trump kind of came along." (Mead, 23:08)
• Looking Ahead: Mead doubts any simple restoration is possible, highlighting generational divides, aging leadership, and new demands for political adaptability.
  • Quote: “We are going to need a new kind of politics and a new kind of politician... a lot of the politicians that we’re going to have in the future are going to be people who’ve learned some very important lessons from Donald Trump.” (Mead, 28:45)

Listener Q&A: Are There Still Good NGOs?

[29:44–32:31]

• Effective NGOs: Mead praises "locally based" organizations and those sticking to clear mandates (e.g., disaster relief), warning that heavily "branded" NGOs often drift from real-world effectiveness.
  • Quote: "The more an NGO or nonprofit is in your face, the less good it is and the less good it's doing, I think." (Mead, 30:13)
• Ideological Capture: Problems are especially acute, Mead says, when foundations subsidize like-minded staff and lose touch with community needs.

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• "We don't want to turn schooling into some kind of bizarre, bizarre, bizarre. Different kids need different things..." (Mead, 01:58)
• "[Trump] has destroyed the left as well as destroyed the right. And this was kind of what Napoleon needed to do..." (Mead, 16:50)
• "Napoleon’s charisma, Napoleon’s unique insight and vision... Trump, obviously, in maga world, where he says, maga is me, I invented maga, I am maga..." (Mead, 17:45)
• "What both of them did was they achieved sort of unprecedented authority in their own country... If the constitution is in the way, let's have a different constitution." (Mead, 18:30)
• “We're not going back.” (Mead, 27:24)

Structure & Flow

• Opening: Quick-fire “news or faux news” format fosters rapid assessment of three high-profile stories.
• Main Discussion: Extended, historically rooted analogy between Trump and Napoleon, exploring domestic and international implications.
• Listener Q&A: Returns to practical issues with topical, grounded advice.

Tone

• Analytical, dryly humorous, historically literate.
• Relies on historical parallels, witty analogies (“Napoleon was terrible at golf”), and skepticism of easy answers.
• Mead is clear about what is speculative and what is grounded in evidence.

This episode offers a deeply reasoned, nuanced lens on Trump’s leadership and the political transformation of America—illuminating for historians, political junkies, and curious listeners alike.