Podcast Summary: What Really Matters with Walter Russell Mead
Episode Title: Mr. Modi Goes to China
Host: Tablet Magazine
Date: September 2, 2025
Hosts: Walter Russell Mead & Jeremy Stern

Overview of the Episode

This episode centers around the geopolitical implications of Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi attending the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) summit in Tianjin, China, alongside figures like Xi Jinping, Vladimir Putin, and others. Mead and Stern analyze what Modi's presence signals for U.S.–India relations under Trump’s second term, the interplay among China, Russia, and Iran, and the art of diplomacy in the current multipolar moment. The opening segment quickly digests the week’s major headlines with the regular “news or faux news?” routine before diving deep into “the big conversation” regarding the significance of the SCO summit and the maneuverings of major global powers.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. News Briefs: “News or Faux News?”

• U.S. Navy Buildup Near Latin America (00:06–04:52)

  • Eight U.S. warships surge to the Caribbean and Pacific as part of “enhanced counter narcotics” operations.
  • Mead’s Take: This is mostly “foe news”—the Trump administration is “hyper energetic but radically understructured,” with freelancing officials whose actions are more about appearance than coordinated policy.
    • Quote: “They're sort of licensed from the president... and so you're going to see, I think, a lot of noise in an administration like this.” (01:46)
    • Mead doubts a real military operation is imminent but sees this show of force as thematically important for voters concerned about drugs.

• Gaza Famine Polls (04:52–11:47)

  • Harvard Harris poll: Most Americans believe there’s famine in Gaza, but most blame Hamas.
  • Mead’s Take: Calls it “foe news,” stressing the unreliability and politicization of polls.
    • Quote: “People are brandishing polls... as an instrument of argumentation, less and less as a test of actual public sentiment.” (05:48)
  • Mead draws historical parallels to moral judgments in total war, underlining the grave complexity of suffering in wartime.

• Trump Moves to Fire Fed Governor Lisa Cook (11:47–16:39)

  • Trump’s attempt to remove a Fed governor triggers a lawsuit about the independence of the Federal Reserve.
  • Mead’s Take: If Trump succeeds, it would “be a big change in the way America works.”
    • Quote: “When you have a populist administration running a central bank and the erosion of central bank independence, then... those of us who thought that 30 year treasury bonds were a safe investment may have to rethink.” (12:49)
  • Mead emphasizes the wisdom of political leaders having a scapegoat in an independent Fed, rather than direct control.

2. The Big Conversation: Mr. Modi Goes to China (16:39–29:18)

The SCO Summit and Its Significance

• What Happened:
  • The largest-ever SCO summit in Tianjin, hosted by Xi Jinping, included top leaders from India, Russia, Turkey, Iran, and Central Asia.
  • Headlines fixated on photos of Modi, Xi, and Putin together.
• Media Reaction:
  • Mead: U.S. press frames this event to make Trump look bad—as part of an ongoing theme that he’s “wrecking” the world order.
    • Quote: “Press coverage... is by and large an attempt to make Trump look bad. He sometimes does... but the mindset of the press and editors are [that] what Trump is doing is so unbearably terrible... any event that happens is another example.” (17:56)
  • The image of Modi smiling with authoritarians is leveraged as propaganda, but substance is lacking—“Modi doesn’t seem to have signed any agreements that commit him to concrete steps.” (20:01)

Indian Diplomacy and Domestic Politics

• Modi’s Real Aim:
  • Primarily, Modi needs to demonstrate to India that he is “not knuckling under to Trump” and is “standing up for India” on the world stage.
  • Attending the summit and having high-profile images “sends a very powerful message across India that our Prime Minister will not be intimidated.”
    • Quote: “Indians... expect a prime minister who... stands up for India when it’s hard. So Modi simply cannot afford to look in any way, shape, or form like Trump’s lapdog.” (20:30)
  • By attending, Modi preserves diplomatic flexibility—he’s not committed to either China or the U.S., but enhances his bargaining power.
    • Quote: “It improves your position, but it doesn’t commit you to a course of action you’re not sure you want to be committed to. That’s what good diplomacy looks like.” (21:29)

India–U.S.–China Triangular Dynamics

• Pressures:

  • Anti-dependence sentiment in Indian media is more acute regarding the U.S. than China, tracing back to past and present Pakistan policy.
    • Quote: “There’s a kind of an allergy toward India looking dependent on the United States... that doesn’t flare up as much with other countries.” (22:34)
  • Peter Navarro’s lead on criticizing India reflects both genuine policy and internal Trump administration rivalries.

• Future Outlook:

  • It's still unclear whether this represents a true drift between the U.S. and India or is just a tactical maneuver.
    • Quote: “We’re going to wait and see. But I’m certainly going to be watching this carefully.” (25:23)

3. Axis of Weevils: Iran–Russia–China Relations (25:31–29:18)

• Current Status:
  • Iran: Once the region's scrappy ascendant, now “has gone from being the one that has gained the most to the one that has suffered the most defeats,” due to Trump’s policies and Israel’s assertiveness.
    • Quote: “Trump has really... with Israel taking the lead, Iran... it's not what it was two years ago. A very sobering lesson.” (26:14)
  • Russia: Despite a longer, bloodier war in Ukraine than expected, Putin has absorbed the reality and is likely satisfied given “the West has taken more damage than Russia has” (in diplomatic unity and prestige).
  • China: Xi Jinping, plagued by economic issues and internal purges, benefits as the “residuary beneficiary of more and more actions of his partners.” Yet, he lacks major, visible victories to fully satisfy Chinese ambitions.
    • Quote: “Where are the territorial gains? Where is the deference?... He’s still not there.” (28:54)

4. Memorable Quotes and Commentary

• On U.S. Drug Policy Posture (02:15): “Drugs and the intersection of drug policy, Caribbean policy, security policy is such an ill-defined space that there’s more room than usual... this can be just a playground for various people.”
• On American Foreign Policy Polls (05:48): “We would all do better to just downgrade the attention to polls and maybe even pay less money to pollsters.”
• On War and Sympathy (09:10): “This kind of mindless sentimentality... is where sympathy has overridden some political judgment.”
• On Modi’s Diplomacy (20:30): “Modi simply cannot afford to look in any way, shape, or form like Trump’s lapdog.”
• On China’s Incremental Gains (28:14): “We are now moving into a world in which Xi is becoming the kind of residuary beneficiary of more and more actions of his partners.”
• On Fed Independence (12:49): “If Trump succeeds in firing [a] member of the board… it's a big change in the way America works.”

Section Timestamps

• U.S. Navy Buildup: 00:06–04:52
• Gaza Famine Polls: 04:52–11:47
• Trump & the Fed: 11:47–16:39
• SCO Summit & Modi–China–U.S. Diplomacy: 16:39–25:31
• Iran–Russia–China Dynamics: 25:31–29:18
• Listener Question – Favorite Fed Chair: 29:38–31:13

Notable & Memorable Moments

• Mead’s Parable on Fed Chairs (29:38)
  • A listener asks for Mead’s favorite Fed chair; he picks Paul Volcker: “He did the most for me... Volcker brought [interest rates] down—painfully, but he did bring it down.” Mead recounts a humorous listener call-in about Volcker being a “Communist” and jokes, “If you are right... join the Communist Party now because it’s over.”

Conclusion

This episode offers a subtle, nuanced reading of big geopolitical theater, particularly surrounding Modi at the Shanghai summit. Mead’s take is that while media framing rushes to see tectonic shifts (especially as reinforced by vivid, viral imagery), the substance is more about maneuver, stability, and appearances—especially for domestic audiences in India. The “axis of weevils”—Iran, Russia, China—is recalibrated, with Xi now holding a quiet upper hand, Iran diminished, and Russia holding on for its version of victory. The conversation is rich in historical analogies and in the ever-skeptical tone Mead brings to both media coverage and grand narratives about foreign policy motives.

For listeners:
This episode is both an anatomy of global summit diplomacy and a primer on the importance of domestic images, bureaucratic disorganization, and the subtle arts of signaling in international politics.