Podcast Summary: What Really Matters with Walter Russell Mead
Episode: Orthodox Christianity in America
Date: November 22, 2025
Host: Jeremy Stern | Guest: Walter Russell Mead (Tablet, WSJ, Hudson Institute, U of Florida)

Episode Overview

This episode examines the rising interest in Orthodox Christianity among young conservative men in America, exploring its roots, appeal, and potential durability. In addition, the hosts touch on contemporary geopolitical news, including Japan-China tensions, Saudi Arabia and the Abraham Accords, and China's rising prominence in scientific research, before pivoting to a thoughtful, in-depth discussion about shifts within American religious life.

Key News Stories Discussed

1. Japan-China Tensions over Taiwan (00:06–04:53)

• Context: Japanese PM Sanaya Takaichi’s comments on Taiwan prompt sharp rebuke from China.
• Takaichi stated that a Chinese attack on Taiwan could be a survival-threatening situation for Japan, possibly leading to military response.
• China has demanded a retraction and apology; Takaichi stands by her remarks, seeking better ties but refusing to apologize.
• Walter’s Take:
  • This is “news,” not just routine diplomatic bluster.
  • China’s reaction viewed as overblown and characteristic of their “wolf warrior diplomacy.”
  • China is demanding Japan effectively change its government—a huge overstep.
    • Quote:
      “They’re essentially demanding that Japan change its government to satisfy Chinese Ireland over what is legitimately a matter of survival for Japan. It's unbelievable, but it's typical of... a lot of Chinese diplomacy.” (01:36)
  • For Japan, Chinese control of Taiwan poses a truly existential crisis (trade routes, US alliance, potential threat to Okinawa).
  • Quote:
    “It would mean that the South China Sea, East China Sea would become de facto Chinese territorial water, which is a problem for Japanese shipping...” (03:37) “I have had very senior Japanese officials tell me that's how they view it.” (04:44)

2. Saudi Arabia, the Abraham Accords, and Israel (04:53–11:57)

• Context: Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman (MBS) signals interest in joining the Abraham Accords but insists on progress toward a Palestinian state.
• Israel’s government remains adamant against a two-state solution, stalling potential normalization.
• Walter’s Take:
  • The Abraham Accords’ relevance is waning; prior conditions have shifted—Saudis don’t feel the urgency.
  • Intelligence and clandestine cooperation with Israel continues behind the scenes but public normalization not worth the domestic cost in Saudi Arabia.
  • Recent Israeli hardline government statements make compromise impossible.
  • “Winning” wars in the Middle East has never translated into the desired peace.
    • Quote:
      “You win a war, you win a war convincingly, you really defeat the other side, and you still can't get the Middle East that you want... We're absolutely seeing another act in this long-running serial.” (07:53)
  • Abraham Accords were never a transformative force but rather a product of specific conditions (regional rivalry, search for economic advantage).
    • Quote:
      “The Abraham Accords ... are not the end of the Arab-Israeli conflict. It's not the start yet of a new peaceful Middle East.” (11:35)

3. China Surpasses U.S. in Scientific Output (11:57–14:30)

• Context: China now outpaces the U.S. in research publications and patents; debate on the meaning and quality of these numbers.
• Walter’s Take:
  • Skeptical—numbers may be artificially inflated due to government mandates.
  • Citation indexes and patents can be gamed and don’t always reflect genuine scientific power.
    • Quote:
      “You can manipulate these indices... It’s a little bit like the Chinese mortgage market in some ways and is maybe no more reliable than that.” (13:23)
  • Warns against both complacency and alarmism.

Deep Dive: Orthodox Christianity’s Appeal in America (14:30–24:49)

Introduction and Trend Overview (14:30–16:13)

• A New York Times article highlights a notable rise in conversions, especially among conservative young men, to Orthodox Christianity in the U.S.
• Orthodox Christianity remains the smallest major Christian tradition in the U.S.—about 1% of the population.

What is Orthodox Christianity? (16:13–18:18)

• Walter’s Primer:
  • Rooted in the Christian East (Byzantine/Constantinople), distinct from Roman Catholicism.
  • Differences are partly linguistic (Greek vs. Latin) and theological (e.g., filioque clause in the Nicene Creed).
• Quote:
  “The spirit of Orthodoxy reflects a bit that Greek sensibility and the... western Christianity has a different ethos to it.” (16:56)
  • Many converts likely haven’t deeply engaged with these distinctions.

Who is Converting, and Why? (18:19–21:46)

• Many new adherents are ex-Protestants or former evangelicals dissatisfied with mainline churches or the “thinness” of evangelical culture.
• Some first try Catholicism before turning to Orthodoxy.
• Walter is cautious about the scale—suspects trend is being overstated and not enough to counterbalance generational decline in ethnic Orthodox communities.
• Parallel is drawn to ultra-traditionalist Catholic movements—much discussed online, little demographic impact.
  • Quote:
    “This is one of those articles that, you know, if you've got three examples, it's trend... But probably not sufficient ... to offset ... the original immigrants who sort of go out of that church either into other churches or into nothing at all.” (18:56)
  • Trend may be “niche appeal”—possibly a momentary phase for some.

Is This Search a Sign of Health? (21:46–24:49)

• Jeremy notes that many young men in America feel lost, searching for meaning or belonging; some experiment with Orthodox Christianity.
• Walter’s View:
  • Prefers religious searching—even in “exotic” or unfamiliar forms—over experimenting with destructive ideologies.
    • Quote:
      “An America in which millions of young men were experimenting with Orthodox Christianity [is] a lot better than... millions of young men are experimenting with Nazism ... Or communism. And... All of the searching, even when it goes to places that I personally really dislike, is a sign of life and health and vitality.” (22:37)
  • Sees a “coolness factor” for those seeking to be different; skepticism that this will become a mass movement.
    • Quote:
      “There's a bit of a coolness factor here. … This is the one who doesn't settle for the ordinary blue jeans ... but, you know, for the like, super special ones...” (24:18)

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Orthodox Christianity's Niche Appeal:
  “Because Orthodoxy is so small and sort of so exotic... this has always had a kind of a niche appeal...” (23:24)
• On Measuring Religious Trends:
  “We didn't get many measurements there about how high these waves [of converts] are...” (18:54)
• On 'Trend' vs. Demographic Reality:
  “If you stand back and look at cultural phenomena, I think it's, you know, this is... someone who doesn't settle for the ordinary blue jeans... but for the super special ones.” (24:14)

Bonus: Favorite Orthodox Churches (25:07–26:54)

• Hagia Sophia in Istanbul (Constantinople): “A pretty impressive building.”
• Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem: Spared by Persian invaders due to its depiction of the magi as Persian holy men; one of the oldest standing Christian churches.

Conclusion

This episode places the “trend” of Orthodox Christian conversions in historical and cultural context, blending Mead’s encyclopedic grasp of religious history and social currents with present-day news. Mead’s skeptical, reflective tone encourages listeners to look past headlines and fads, recognizing both the vitality in religious searching and the enduring stability of larger, slower-moving demographic patterns.

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Japan-China over Taiwan: 00:06–04:53
• Saudi Arabia, Abraham Accords, Israel: 04:53–11:57
• China’s rise in scientific research: 11:57–14:30
• Orthodox Christianity in America – Overview & Deep Dive: 14:30–24:49
• Favorite Orthodox Churches: 25:07–26:54

Language and tone throughout: Critical, analytical, gently humorous, at times skeptical, consistently informed by deep historical knowledge.