A (5:31)

Hi, Anne, thanks for having me.

B (5:33)

Oh my gosh, the pleasure is mine. And I wish you could hear all the nice things that our mutual friend and modern Mrs. Darcy. What should I read next? Team member Brigid has said about you in advance of us talking today. It's great to connect voice to voice.

A (5:50)

Yes. So great to be here. And I've heard a lot about you in the show, of course, as well.

B (5:55)

Well, I love discovering when good people know good people because of course they do. But it's still a pleasure. Candace, we are here today to talk about books and reading, which I'm so excited to do. Would you start by giving our listeners a glimpse of who you are, where you are in the world, that good stuff.

A (6:14)

Okay, so I, I didn't mean to make it existential. I was thinking who. Well, I am. I'm just a girl. No.

B (6:28)

Actually, could you put it to song?

A (6:31)

There is a song for that, too. I am a Georgia native. I like to say that first because I really love my home state of Georgia. I relocated to south Florida about 11 years ago and have raised my family here for the most part. I am the mom in a blended family of five children and they keep us really busy. We have two little dogs in the mix and, you know, we're just working and trying to travel, squeeze in travel and good food and make memories in between, and that fills the days pretty well.

B (7:15)

Sounds like a full life.

A (7:17)

It is, for sure. So professionally I work in public relations. I've done that for almost two decades now. And currently I work in the public sector doing public relations. And that comes with a whole myriad of exciting ups and downs. And so I'm really, you know, working with the media, writing a lot of content for social media publications, you name it. And I think that's important because it kind of lends itself to the problem that I'm. I'm here today to talk to the reading doctor about.

B (7:56)

Oh, my gosh. First of all, that's hilarious. Second, that is where my brain was going. We were chit chatting about PR before we hit record, and I had not yet made the mental leap to. Of course, that has great impact on your reading life. I'm intrigued to hear more. Speaking of that reading life, would you tell us more about either what that means to you, your history, or what it's looking like these days? You're the boss.

A (8:23)

My mother is a teacher. I think that's really important to note. She has taught every grade from preschool to college. She's. She has a doctorate in education. So reading just, you know, it's always been there for me. As a kid, I read. I was just such a bibliophile. I always had a book. I would never go to bed at bedtime. I'd keep my door cracked so that the hall light would peek in and I could see the pages. And that's probably why my eyesight is so bad today. I joke, you know, peripheral vision before texting and walking was a thing. I was roller skating and reading. I mean, well, Candace, I know, I know. I was kind of a crazy kid. Yeah, I always had a book. I'd sneak off in fake camp, family vacations at the beach. I just sit in my chair until the tide came in and wanted to swallow me up. It Just until young adulthood, until I became a mother, Reading has been a major part of my life. And so then I became a mom, and things started changing. I think I stopped reading as much just because of time constraints. And then as my professional career took off and I balanced parenting with my career, which is public relations. So I'm proofreading. I'm reading manuscripts multiple times. I'm administering. And this makes it so that when you aren't at work, you really don't want to read so much because your brain is just already full of words. So over the years, I have moved more to podcasts. I love podcasts. So big on podcasts for many years now. And from that, I kind of put audiobooks in place of physical books, but I miss physical books. I love paper. I know that's kind of weird. I'm very tactile when it comes to reading. I have bookshelves. I have multiple bookshelves and multiple homes because I love the look of books. I Love sharing a book, a good book. One of the books that I've listed for you and one of my favorites. I've purchased multiple copies because I keep giving it away. I'm sure some people out there, there can relate to that.

B (10:56)

We're going to make sure we know which one that is.

A (10:58)

Yeah. And so it's now that I have become an empty nester, or actually I call it an open nester because, you know, they do come back. I've been an open nester for about a year now and really rediscovering things that I sacrificed or put on the back burner to raise my children. So I want to get back to things that make me me in reading and just zoning out, you know, somewhere with a book is a piece of me that I want to reconnect with.

B (11:35)

Oh, I love that for you, Candice, it sounds like we're catching you at a almost transitional moment in time. I'm curious to hear what brings you to what should I read next right now?

A (11:47)

Full disclosure, one of your staff members is a really good friend of mine and she's doing a great job, by the way, promoting your podcast amongst her friends. Thanks, Bridget. You know, so of course we're going to support Bridget. And she mentioned just casually about, you know, show submissions and it's been months since she brought that up and one day I just recalled that and I said, I'm gonna go to the website and fill it out. I didn't even tell her that I was doing it until after it was already done. And by the way, Brigid, she's just been such a huge support even in my reading life. She, she runs a book club that I'm able to attend. I've been attending that for the last year, which again has brought reading. The timing couldn't be more perfect. It's brought reading back into my life in a big way. And I'm still doing audiobooks for the book club, but hope to incorporate, you know, physical books also.

B (12:51)

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A (15:53)

It was really tough, let me tell you. When you're a book lover, it's really tough, hard to pick a favorite. The book I mentioned earlier that I have purchased multiple times because I'm always giving it away is the Bluest Eye by Toni Morrison. I have read several of Toni's books. She's probably my favorite author of all time. And that may have something to do with the timing at which she came into my life. When I was a college student, I took an English literature class and this was required reading. I had not read a Toni Morrison book before that. I read the Bluest Eye. And at the end of the course, our final project was to take one of the books we had read during that semester and write an analysis on it. And I chose that book and I analyzed the symbolism in the Bluest Eye. So I really. It forced me to do a deep dive into this book, and that's just never left me. It is a horror story of sorts, you know, which if you read Toni Morrison, you know, some of her books just happen to kind of be that way. It's such a sad story of this little girl, Pe Cola. I'll tell you, I love going to the movies alone. It's one of my things that I do. I love going to the theater alone. I always have. And there's not a single time that I've gone to the theater alone and not thought of Pauline Breedlove from this book. Every single time I sit in the seat with my popcorn by myself, I think of this book. So I don't want to give it away. I don't want to spoil anything. But basically, the Bluest Eye is about a young girl named Pe Cola who is very abused in her life. She's abused by everyone who she knows. And she dreams of having blue eyes. She's a little black girl. She thinks she's ugly. And you just go along with her through her life and you're there when she does realize her dream of having blue eyes in a horrible way.

B (18:22)

I'm grateful to hear a required assignment led you to such a great love in your reading life. Tell me about all these multiple copies. So you have all the copies. Have you read the book many times as well?

A (18:34)

I've read the book a couple of times, actually. I was thinking, after this, I'm due for another Reading. So I had a copy from college, and I don't know who I gave it to. But then the next time I was recommending it to someone, I realized I didn't have my copy anymore. So I got another copy and I gave it to the person. And I've done that a few times with the Bluest Eye. I've also done that with Song of Solomon, another of Toni Morrison's great books. So after Toni Morrison, the next favorite that I'm going to mention is the only other time that I've done that where I bought a book. Like, you have to. Here, take this. You have to read this.

B (19:17)

Yeah. I'm still thinking about what you said about loving to go to the movies.

A (19:23)

On your own, but I know it's kind of heavy.

B (19:26)

Those scenes in the Bluest Eye, they. They hurt.

A (19:29)

They do hurt. And I'll tell you, Anne, actually, what's more hurtful to me is last year when I learned that this book is on. Is on the banned book list, I just could not believe it.

B (19:43)

Along with the rest of Toni Morrison's works, I imagine.

A (19:46)

Yeah, it is a hard story. You know, not every story is a happy story. Toni's not known for necessarily writing happy stories, but she writes real stories and things that you feel and obviously, you know, in my case, things that stay with you. She's a beautiful author. Her writing is just phenomenal. It's an art in itself. So aside from the subject matter of the story she chooses. She just writes beautiful prose, and I love it.

B (20:17)

Yeah. So it seems like this is undoubtedly your favorite, Toni Morrison. Your favorite or her best. What do you think?

A (20:24)

Oh, gosh, I couldn't. I couldn't pick. I couldn't pick.

B (20:29)

You know, you haven't had to analyze that one yet.

A (20:32)

Song of Solomon is about a young man, and it is written from that perspective. And I appreciated that one because I'm a woman, you know? So it really gave me a. Just a. Putting myself in that person's mind. So that. That one's great. Paradise, another of her novels, is a. Is kind of a difficult read. Power through paradise. And they're all just amazing. But if you're going to start anywhere, the Bluest Eye is a good place to start because it's short. Actually, I learned in my research that this was originally a short story that Toni Morrison had written for a college course that she later.

B (21:16)

What?

A (21:17)

Yes. That she later expanded upon and made into a book, but it was originally a short story.

B (21:23)

That is incredible. I did not know that.

A (21:25)

Isn't that Interesting. Yes, she was, she was a student. Uh huh.

B (21:29)

I had no idea. Okay. The Bluest Eye by Toni Morrison. Candace, what's the second book you love?

A (21:37)

Lost Gods by Brahm. Actually his name is Gerald Brahm, but his books are under Brahm, all caps. You know, kind of like Madonna. One name. I just discovered Brahm a year ago and I have read four of his books since last summer.

B (22:01)

Wow.

A (22:02)

Yes, I know. I got the bug bad. I have. I'm taking a break because I don't want to read all of his books, you know, right away. So Brahm is an author I was not aware of at all. I have a friend from school who I'm still connected with on Facebook and she is in a doctoral program for literature. So she's taken us along on her journey and she always posts books and reviews and things that she's reading. She posted the COVID of Lost Gods. I saw this cover. I knew nothing about what this book was about, but immediately upon seeing the COVID I went, oh, this is something that I would like. There's this gorgeous illustration of this mythical character, like a sphinx looking character with its eyes cast upward. It just drew me in.

B (23:01)

Can you say more about that, listeners? If you look it up, it's really distinct and evocative. What, what did it say to you? Like what kind of story did you suspect may be behind that image?

A (23:14)

Initially it made me think of, you know, like the never ending story. I didn't know what this character was or what the meaning was, but the illustration was so detailed. This sphinx is very ornate. I didn't know what Lost Gods alluded to it to me. I felt like it was a fantasy, it was a fantasy genre book, so I was open to that. I don't know that I read any type of summary about it. I think I saw that cover and that she recommended it. Maybe she wrote a little bit about it and I downloaded it immediately.

B (23:59)

Okay, and then what happened next?

A (24:02)

And then what happened next was I went on this fantastic journey. So Lost Gods is about a guy, a man, a young man named Chet Moran. He's an ex convict. He's kind of fresh out of jail. He's made some mistakes and he's trying to get on the right track, but somehow trouble still finds him. And he and his wife, his pregnant wife, run away to his grandmother's house. They're in this secluded area of the country and some eerie things start to happen. I don't think this is a spoiler because I think this is in the summary, but Chet is killed and he goes to Purgatory. So in this book, you follow along as he fights his way back from purgatory to save his wife and his unborn child who are back on Earth. They're in danger, and he's trying to get to them to save them. There's a lot of mythology. I'm not a mythology buff. That doesn't matter. If someone out there feels like, oh, I don't know a lot about anthology, or I'm not into it. You don't need to know. The descriptions are so well done. You'll. You'll get the point. Chet himself is a really endearing character. You will root for him the entire way. Some people, I've heard, they compare this book to American Gods or, like, maybe a blend between American Gods and Dante's Inferno. I haven't read either of those, honestly, but I recommend it. I read this book, and then I said to my husband, oh, my gosh, you have to read this book. So he is. He's a physical book reader. So I had the audiobook, he ordered the book. And then I said to my oldest son, who's 28, oh, my gosh, you have to read this book. And we were talking about it recently, and he says, oh, I cried, like, at the end of that. He loved it. And the world building is the biggest thing with Brahm. He's so phenomenal with world building. I would compare it to how I felt when I read Lord of the Rings. You just are on this epic journey, and you're just in this world, and you just. You feel like you are there. Then I went on after this book to read Slue Foot, which is another book by Brahm, and that one has a female protagonist. And, you know, I'm not going to go into it. I will say the only reason I didn't choose Slue Foot as the favorite is because I will always feel a special connection to Lost Gods, because that was my introduction into the world of Brahmos. But as a woman, Slue Foot was something that really touched me. And then right at the tail end of me reading the Child Thief. In February of this year, I attended the Savannah Book Festival, and I got to meet Brahm in person. He did a talk followed by a book signing. And you know how they say, never meet your heroes? I was nervous about meeting him because I was thinking, what if he's not as awesome as I want him to be, man, it didn't turn out that way. It was amazing. He's an amazing person.

B (27:37)

I love that you got to go on this journey, especially this transitional point in your life where you're finding yourself as a reader again.

A (27:45)

And I almost didn't go to the book festival. It actually was Bridget who pushed me and pushed me, and I went, okay, I'm gonna go. And I'm so glad.

B (27:55)

Good job, Brigid.

A (27:56)

Yeah, good job, Brigid.

B (27:58)

That was Lost Gods and Others by Brahm. Candace, what's the third book you love?

A (28:04)

She's Come Undone by Wally Lamb. It's a little different from the other two that I've mentioned.

B (28:10)

It is.

A (28:11)

But, I mean, I read that book ages ago. My middle name is Dolores. I don't know. Is that why I have a connection to it? I. I think that the liberation that happens with the character in this book is what I was drawn to. And I just remember reading it and then finishing it and just having such a feeling of accomplishment along with Dolores and finishing it. That's always great, you know, when you finish a book and you get the gratification out of the story. And at this time in my life, I really did not have anything in common with the character. But maybe I like hearing, you know, an underdog story or a struggle or someone finding themselves. What I could relate to was how sometimes, you know, we are our biggest critic, and certainly there is a world full of people who will do that for you. So positive self talk and the power of that, you know, it's something that I kind of learned from this, and you can always start over.

B (29:30)

That's so interesting. It's been a long time since I read that book, and I don't remember the redemption arc. I remember the Heart.

A (29:39)

It was a hard read, but she reinvents herself.

B (29:45)

Yeah, I love that for her. Wally Lamb puts his characters through it.

A (29:51)

He does. And maybe there's something about me that I like having my heart broken. No, actually, I alluded to this earlier when we were chatting beforehand. But one thing that preparing for our discussion revealed to me is that I love an epic journey. I think on my application, I had the word epic, but really more specifically an epic journey. And all of these books that I've listed as my favorites, they have an epic journey of some kind. Whether it's a character's personal triumphs that they're overcoming or whether it's literally, you know, like in the case of Chet and Purgatory, an epic journey. That's one thing that I seem to be drawn to. And I'll put in the work, you know, if there. If it's going to be rewarded at the End the work.

B (30:55)

Meaning the reading?

A (30:57)

Yes, the reading.

B (30:58)

Patience with world building.

A (31:00)

I. I love world building. I mean, in the case of Brahm, it's so. It's so effortless. He. He's really talented at that. But it's a long book. I think the audiobook's like 15 hours. Yeah, but I did not feel that at all. I. It's just. For me, it was a real page turner. I could totally see this being a movie. I hope somebody manages to turn this into a movie someday. It's big that way. The bluest eye. You know, that's a. It's a shorter book, but it is. It's a journey. You're walking in that person's shoes. You're really seeing what their life is like. So that. That was something that I realized. I got very introspective in this process of kind of talking about what I like to read, which I guess I hadn't really thought about before.

B (31:49)

Candice, I appreciate hearing you reflect on what you are drawn to, and we'll think about what it means for what you may enjoy reading next. Speaking of, tell us about a book that wasn't right for you. Was this hard to come up with?

A (32:06)

This one I read recently, so it wasn't difficult. I. I chose it because it was one that so many times I was just gonna not finish it and put it in my did not finish pile. The story of Edgar Sawtelle. Oh, I have such mixed feelings about this. So I just said, I love an epic journey, and this is definitely that. So it has all of these indicators that it would be a book for me. I struggled with. It just was so long in places and that it didn't have to be long and so descriptive. I said, I had two pups at home. I am a dog, a love. But the intricate descriptions of the mannerisms of dogs, I just. Oh, it was so tough for me to get through this. And the ending was okay. You know, I don't need a happy ending, but it was kind of like.

B (33:11)

Oh, that's all I got for 600 pages.

A (33:19)

So I read that book in the last year, so it's fresh on the brain. I. I will. Will not be giving copies of that to anyone. And I feel bad. I mean, we're critiquing. I think that the editors. This is where you. You need your editors. And the editor could have chopped a little more. Apparently, it's based on Shakespeare's Hamlet.

B (33:47)

Oh, I didn't know that.

A (33:49)

Yeah, someone told me that after I was reading it and not that. That ruined it for me. But then as I'm reading it, I'm looking for the comparisons and, like, the parallels and like, oh, this character is that character, and this. So that put a damper on things. That was probably the first time that I almost didn't finish it. And then now I was like, no, I'm pushing through because this little boy deserves for me to hear his story. And my goodness, it was tough. It was a journey in Wisconsin, but.

B (34:29)

It was a journey in Wisconsin. Yes, they put that on the COVID.

A (34:34)

They don't advertise that.

B (34:36)

I'm wondering if you're able to put your finger on the missing elements for you, because you've said in many ways it sounded like a book that you would really love, but that turned out not to be the case.

A (34:46)

I think I just found some of the descriptions to just be very gratuitous. Like, I don't think they were for the reader. And by the way, you know, I can't even say pace, because when you're reading it with your eyes, you have a pace that you read at when you're listening on audiobook. You know, I'll bump it up to 1.25, you know, if I really want to, you know, zip through it a little bit. But even with that, it does have a meandering kind of pace and, you know, to the book. And maybe that had something to do with it, that the pace was very slow. And again, I'll go down that rabbit hole if I feel like there's going to be a reward. So I do appreciate the fact that writing is complicated and it's an art form that is difficult to balance sometimes.

B (35:39)

Duly noted. Candice, what are you looking for in your reading life right now?

A (35:46)

I always love recommendations. I guess what I wanted your feedback on because you talk to so many people and, you know, this is your whole world of, you know, what people read and how they read. I would like to, in addition to recommendations, I would like strategies or I would like. I mean, maybe you've met someone like me who kind of got away from physical books. And I know all of the things to do, but I guess what's the first step of what I need to do so that I can sit in a chair, light a candle and just read?

B (36:29)

When you do that, what happens?

A (36:31)

Oh, you know, the dog barks. My husband, Gosh, I love him, but it's like, as soon as I am, I have a book in my hand, he has a million things to ask me. I'm always on call between mom duties and career duties, you know, probably there's some ADHD at work. I think I'm easily distracted. That's probably the common denominator of all of those things. That didn't used to be the case. But again, when you don't have kids running around and you're on vacation, can I tell you just a quick. Funny. I also realized. So once I tried to just read a physical book. I bought a copy of Where'd you go, Bernadette? I bought a paperback copy, and there was a bit of, like, six degrees of separation between me and Maria Semple. So I was like, I am reading her book, and I kid you not, years. I took this book with me. I packed it on vacation with me for years, to the point that it was like, where are you going, Bernadette? Because, you know, now we're going here on vacation. And I did it. But even it was a joke with my husband, like, oh, you're still trying to read that book. Book. I did read that book. I did read the physical book. But yes, I would say at least five years. I packed it on vacation with me, and it's battered. I have a picture of it. I'll send it to you instead. Like, torn and battered. Bernardette had been through some things by the time I finished it.

B (38:13)

Has Bernadette been read?

A (38:15)

Yes. Yes, Bernadette was read. And then I think what motivated me in the end was the movie was coming out, and I wanted to finish reading it before I watched the movie, which I did also. And I love that story. It's great. I love the book more than the movie, of course, but it's a great story.

B (38:37)

I'm glad you enjoyed it. Candace, I don't know what the secret is going to be for you or if there even is one, but as you were describing your struggle with physical books, what you said about your work was ringing in my ears. And I wonder now, maybe I'm projecting on you a little bit, but I wonder if we don't have something in common that we don't share with a lot of our listeners as well. And that is the stuff we make at work is not something you can hold in your hands. It's ephemeral. Like it exists in a way that we can't touch. Like, you can see it and you can read it often on the Internet. But, I mean, we're not, like, making bowls or chairs or cars or. Gosh, I don't know why my brain isn't manufacturing right. And I've heard a lot of interesting reflections from people who work online or who work with words in various ways about how it is certain point you realize you're craving something you can hold in your hands. And this is the point at which some people decide they're going to raise chickens, or some people decide they're going to learn to crochet, or some people want to add physical books back in to the digital mix. Something that you can look at and point to that doesn't, that doesn't disappear when you click a different place on the screen and say, like, I read that. I'm reading that. I'm doing that. I can hold that. I can touch that. This, this is real. And I wonder if you feel any of that.

A (40:07)

I think I do. I mean, I was chuckling as you were going through your list, because I. I did. And, you know, a couple of months ago, I took my first beekeeping class. Oh, my first beekeeping workshop, which is a dream I've had for, you know, 25 years of being an apiarist and. And I finally took a leap. But yes, I do have that drive through. I'm not going to get chickens right now, but I hope to get bees to have something to do with your mind and your hands and that connection. So I identify with that for sure. I think another thing with physical books, some authors, like Brahm, I didn't even talk about his illustrations. He was first an illustrator before he became an author. He would illustrate. I think it was video game promotional posters and things like that, or game covers. Then he became an author. So with his physical books, you get these beautiful illustrations. That's something that you definitely miss out on when you have the audiobook. You know, you can look it up online, but it's not there, you know, as you're reading to refer to. And even another book I love is Green lights by Matthew McConaughey. And I did that via audiobook, and I love that book. But I recently bought a physical copy because he's journaled since he was a teenager and he. In the physical book, he has his own handwriting of his poems, bumper stickers that he's collected in his life. So in some cases, you know, authors are merging, you know, media with words. And if you don't do the physical book, you know, that I do think that lends itself to the whole experience of reading it when. When those books have multimedia.

B (42:04)

Yeah, that's interesting. And gosh, something that is a little bit scary to me as an audiobook listener is it's not always obvious that you're missing something you would have gotten in the print edition, right? I mean, often there's an accompanying PDF or something, but I forget to go look at it honestly a great percentage of the time or I don't know that there's handwritten journal entries in the Matthew McConaughey book that I haven't read.

A (42:28)

Highly recommend.

B (42:30)

Oh, thank you. I love that you're asking this question. I imagine it's one that many of our listeners can relate to. And I don't know what'll work for you, but I think being able to identify, like, what is the resistance here could be helpful. Like, if you think, oh, my hands want to have something to hold, then maybe that would help you stay in the chair and hold the book. But I also wonder. I hear people bemoan like attention span issues when they're reading that physical format. Something that some readers have found success with is trying a different format at a specific time of day. Like, for example, like I have a stack of daily readers that I do most mornings when I'm in town with my coffee. So those are physical and tactile. I could find most of these books on my phone. I could Google the book September 4th and like, it'll pop right up. But there is something about holding it in my hand that feels more contemplative than reading it on my iPhone screen, for reasons that might be difficult to articulate. And yet I have a feeling you know exactly what I'm talking about.

A (43:40)

I do. And I think when you have a job that requires you to look at a screen a lot. I don't have a Kindle. I've never tried a Kindle. But I do feel that I don't want to read on a screen. I do want that physical book, and I digest information differently on a screen than when it's printed.

B (44:09)

Yeah. And there's, I mean, we're not research heavy here on what should I read next, but there's all kinds of studies on how having a pencil in your hand and underlining a physical book is a different reading experience than highlighting with your pointer finger on a Kindle, which is how I read more often than with a pen in my hand these days. I don't know what'll work for you, Candice, because on the one hand I've heard you say, like, oh, you can like dive into these big 600 page epics and go deep and sink in. So maybe an all or nothing approach might, might work for you with physical books as well. Or maybe finding a book that lends itself to being read a little bit at a time. So it's okay if the dog barks and you've only read three pages. You can come back to it without feeling like you've lost the thread of what's happening in the story. But I like that you're thinking about it.

A (44:56)

I like that idea. I have not tried that. You know, I did. I was thinking I read a physical book a couple of years ago. It's been a while though. I mean, I think it's hard when you can count on one hand, you know, in the last year or last year or two, how many you've actually gotten through. I've even had one that I started with a physical book and then I just downloaded the audiobook to finally get through it. I am going to consider this and I do think that, at least initially, it may take a little more discipline to strengthen that muscle again and I haven't kind of taken myself to task. I don't know if you gauge this, but I'm kind of flexible and go with the flow. People at work might think I'm a Type A, but in my personal life I'm mostly not.

B (46:01)

Will you get to embody your reading life however you choose? And actually, I love the idea of you having that Balance.

A (46:08)

Yeah, balance. I love the word balance.

B (46:11)

Are you ready to talk about what you may enjoy reading next?

A (46:14)

Sure. I can't wait. And I had no idea that you were doing this on the fly. You really are the reading doctor.

B (46:23)

Oh my gosh. It's a dangerous, ridiculous premise that we would not have a gap in this conversation. But that is indeed how it's gone from episode. Episode 1 when did making plans get this complicated? It's time to streamline with WhatsApp, the secure messaging app that brings the whole group together. Use polls to settle dinner plans, send event invites and pin messages so no one forgets mom 60th and never miss a meme or milestone. All protected with end to end encryption. It's time for WhatsApp message privately with everyone. Learn more@WhatsApp.com this episode is brought to you by State Farm. Checking off the boxes on your to do list is a great feeling. And when it comes to checking off coverage, a State Farm agent can help you choose an option that's right for you. Whether you prefer talking in person on the phone or using the award winning app, it's nice knowing you have help finding coverage to add that best fits your needs. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there Candice, you loved the Bluest Eye by Toni Morrison, Lost Gods by Brahm, and She's Come Undone by Wally Lamb. Not for you was the Story of Edgar Sawtelle by David Wrobleski. And you're looking for good writing. You mentioned your submission, which we didn't really talk about what we meant, but I get a sense from the writing of the books you've enjoyed what that means. We talked a little bit about pacing and you love a good epic journey and you love to sink into a big story. And, oh, you love an underdog story or struggle and stories of someone finding themselves. You said maybe you like having your heart broken.

A (48:19)

I think I do. I'm not afraid to shed a tear.

B (48:23)

All right, we're going to start big with a book that I have high hopes for you. And the good news and the bad news is actually there's two pieces of good news and bad news, y'.

A (48:32)

All.

B (48:32)

I didn't want to talk about this yet because it's a fall book preview title. And also it doesn't come out until later in October. But I don't know if you've read Alex E. Harrow. She has a book coming out in October called the Everlasting. And I love this for you.

A (48:46)

I haven't.

B (48:47)

This is such an amazing epic and also such an incredible love story when this man who is fascinated by the things he's fascinated about, which are mostly fictional tales about Una Everlasting, but he gets sent back to meet her in person and it changes his life, in his lives, because he keeps getting sent back to meet her over and over and over again because he has been tasked with creating a certain story. And he and Oona are caught up in this sinister game that they are oblivious to as they're living in each individual timeline. And the way Alex Harrow does this is amazing. I don't know how she conceived of this or wrote it or made it work on the page. Cause I'm trying to tell you about it now, Candace. And it's real complicated. It's, like, tricky. It was not tricky to read as a reader. I sat down to read this at the beach. I was like, oh, I'll just, like, check out the new Alex Harrow and see if it's any good. And like, whoosh. I was in and I wanted to know what happened next. And so it's got these huge fantasy elements, but also feels really grounded in, like, a historical setting or many, because he's going back to all different places in time. And that's interesting to see how that plays out. But it's about faith and loyalty and love. Like, this is such a powerful love story from almost beginning to the bitter end. For readers who've read the Ministry of Time, there was a lot in this book that reminded me of that, but the tone and where it leaves you is very, very different. They're gothic elements that are not absent from the books. Well, from some of the books you've enjoyed. How's this sounding to you?

A (50:32)

It sounds good. I'm looking at the COVID I looked it up while you were reading. So, yeah, I'm definitely going to add this to my Goodreads. And maybe this is one. You said it was 300, about 300 pages. Maybe this is one that I can aim to tackle. You know, a physical book.

B (50:51)

The COVID really is gorgeous. Yeah. So that is the Everlasting by Alix Harrow. And if you don't want to wait on her more recent book, Starling House also has a lot of those same elements that involves a like a journey into the deep, deep darkness, literal and metaphorical, in order to right wrongs that have been done deep in the past to individuals and to their whole community. Set in the fictional town of Eden, Kentucky, which jumped out at me because Kentucky doesn't have a lot of shining moments in fiction.

A (51:28)

Right. Okay.

B (51:29)

I'm wondering about nonfiction related to Toni Morrison. Have you read the Toni Morrison Book Club? This could be like, a big hit or really a miss.

A (51:39)

I never heard of it.

B (51:41)

It's not terribly long. It came out in, like, spring 2020. It's a group memoir. I listened to this on audio, and there are four different narrators. You get to hear all the voices. But these four friends are all English professors. They are colleagues, and they came together for a group project, and that was to read the works of Toni Morrison. We don't hear about all the works, but we do hear about four of them. And one of them is the Bluest Eye. The others are Song of Solomon, Beloved and A Mercy. So in this collection, each writer contributes two deeply personal essays about how their life intersects with Morrison work or how Morrison serves as a catalyst to their thinking, their actions, their understanding of what's. There's a lot of current events in this book that they're connecting to Morrison and watching unfold as they're reading Song of Solomon, for example.

A (52:39)

Oh, I think I would love this. I might need to write my own essay after I read it.

B (52:45)

Oh, my gosh, you might. So in print, it's possible with this essay collection, this could be one that's in smaller, more bite Sized pieces. I don't think you're going to lose the plot if you stand up and walk away and tend to things. It's also very good on audio and it's not terribly long. I believe the audio is just in the five hour range. How does that sound?

A (53:11)

That sounds great. Oh, that's a piece of cake compared to my normal audiobooks.

B (53:16)

We have talked about five, 600 word books today. Yeah, Candace, when you were talking about She's Come Undone, I kept thinking of Heft by Liz Moore. Have you read anything by her? Her last book, the God of the woods really exploded and was everywhere.

A (53:32)

I have not read anything by Liz Moore.

B (53:35)

Okay. This is an older book of hers. It came out 2012, but it's the most recent one I've read. I picked this up because I loved her three more recent books and I wanted to work my way back a little more and see what else she had. But when you talked about stories of underdog stories and struggles and people finding themselves and you didn't say this, but this is also very much a story of someone finding a community when they thought they were closed off from that. But this is the story of three characters who are all very isolated and trapped in various ways. The heft of the title I think has to do with like the things that weigh us down and the things that keep us down and the burdens we carry. And also one of the characters is very heavy weight wise and Heft is an obvious reference to him. But the story I think is set in motion by a long standing friendship between a English professor, I think he taught English, and one of his students who signed up to take just like a one off class at the local college in the New York City area. And she was not able to continue with school. And he's never been sure why. But they have remained pen pals for many, many years. And she's not doing well. He doesn't know that, but she puts her son in touch with him. Meanwhile, he realizes he needs help and he calls the cleaning service and asks someone to come and clean his house. And this young woman who might be a teenager, she's definitely not much older than one, also becomes an unexpected friend to this middle aged man who's been living alone in a house he didn't want from his parents for a very, very long time. Everybody has difficult family relationships, almost insurmountable stuff they're facing in their lives, and yet when they come into each other's orbit, things start shifting. There's a lot of addiction in these pages, that's definitely part of the heft. There's compulsive behaviors and it's. I mean, Liz Moore also really puts her characters through it. But to see the hope that they find as they start to connect, although, oh, sometimes the way they reach out is very badly. And you know what? I left out a character. I Left out the 18 year old son of the woman who was pen pals with the professor. He's an aspiring baseball star, very popular, he says, like he doesn't know how to do much, but he knows how to get people to like him. He was born in Yonkers, but he goes to this really like, posh school. Can you tell? I've been reading British books lately. In a really well to do suburb of New York City. He feels very fish out of water, but things are going okay for him until they're really, really not. And he ends up trying to connect with that man his mom has, has in a strange way, put him in contact with. But this is a story of three desperately lonely struggling people who seem to have absolutely nothing in common, but are brought together into each other's orbit by fate and circumstance. And things start to shake loose a little more than any of our other books. This reads similar to Wally Lamb. How does that sound?

A (57:15)

I'm interested and seems like there's more there. I know you don't want to give it away, but it's on the list. I think I will read it.

B (57:26)

I'll take it. Candace, we have covered a lot of ground today.

A (57:32)

We did so, so much. And I could talk to you all day. It's been a great conversation. Thanks for listening to me geek out about my epic stories and favorite books. It was nice to really think about them, you know.

B (57:50)

Well, I enjoyed that as well. And I feel like I got a little bit of a masterclass on Bram.

A (57:58)

Oh, gosh. Well, Brahm would appreciate me spreading the word, I'm sure.

B (58:06)

Okay, let's revisit. We talked about the Everlasting by Alex E. Harrow, the one that's not out yet, the Toni Morrison Book Club, and I didn't say, but that's by Judah Bennett, Winifred Brown, Glaude Cassandra Jackson and Piper Kendricks Williams. And then Heft by Liz Moore. Of those books, what do you think you might pick up next?

A (58:29)

Well, since I have to wait until October for the Everlasting, I think that I'm going to check out the Toni Morrison Book Club first. I like the idea that it's in, you know, little appetizer size bites and maybe we'll kind of get the ball rolling on my journey back to physical books. I think both of the books by Alex Harrow sounded interesting, but definitely I want to read the Everlasting. That sounds like right in my neck of the woods, but I do think I will read them all, but maybe in in the order that I just described.

B (59:14)

I am so curious to hear what you think and I hope you enjoy them.

A (59:18)

I will report back and don't worry.

B (59:21)

You know, I would love to hear. Thank you. It's a promise, right?

A (59:25)

Yes, absolutely. I will let you know. I will follow up and I'll give you my honest opinion, but I already feel more positive about the entire thing. You know, maybe I was getting a little too down on myself and I do think that what is today for my reading journey doesn't have to be what's there tomorrow. So I do feel positive about it and I'm going to keep working toward my goal. Maybe get a little closer to the person I used to be with books.

B (60:01)

I'm excited for you. Yeah, make the road as you walk it or some such proverb.

A (60:05)

I like that. Make the road as you walk it.

B (60:08)

Candace, thanks so much for talking books with me today.

A (60:10)

Thanks for having me. It's been great.

B (60:17)

Hey readers, I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Candice today, and I'd love to hear what you think should she Should Read Next. You can connect with candice on Instagram, TikTok and Threads. We have her link plus the full list of titles we talked about today at what Should I read next? Podcast.com join us over on Instagram by following our show's account at what Should I Read Next? And subscribe to our emails at what Should I read next? Podcast.com newsletter so you can get sneak peeks at each week's new episode, along with updates on special events, new merch, upcoming events like Fall Book Preview, and more. And we'd be grateful if you'd take a moment to check your settings on your favorite podcast app and make sure you're following along. Whether you listen in Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Pocket Casts, wherever you get your podcasts, when you follow or subscribe, that makes a big, tangible difference for us, and it tells our network and advertisers that you enjoy what we're doing doing and you want what Should I Read Next? In your ears. Thanks to the people who make the show happen. What Should I Read Next? Is created each week by Executive Producer Will Bogle, Media Production Specialist Holly Wokachevsky Social Media Manager and Editor Lee Kramer, Community Coordinator Bridget Miselhorn, Community Manager Shannon Malone, and our whole team at what Should I Read Next? And Modern Mrs. Darcy HQ, plus our audio whizzes at Studio D pop podcast production readers, that's it for this episode. Thanks so much for listening. And as Reiner Maria Rilke said, ah, how good it is to be among people who are reading. Happy reading everyone.