A (7:31)

Hi. Thanks for having me.

B (7:33)

Oh, my gosh, the pleasure's mine. Our whole team was really excited to see your submission. It feels perfect for this time of year and hopefully perfect for your reading life right now.

A (7:41)

I'm hoping so. Yeah.

B (7:44)

Amber, would you tell us a little bit about yourself? We wanna give our readers a glimpse of who you are.

A (7:49)

Yeah. So I am from Bellingham, Washington. I live here with my husband and our two boys and our cat and dog. I'm a pre K teacher in the public school. We call it transitional kindergarten over here. I just, I love being at the beginning of these children's experience in education and kind of teaching them how to be in a community with their peers and hopefully teaching them to learn. Learn to love reading and love learning. In my free time, I read, of course. I like baking, photography. I play a lot of cozy games, especially Animal Crossing. I have a little bit of a commute, so I listen to a lot of audiobooks.

B (8:31)

Good to know. Okay, Amber, tell us about your reading life. Right now. I'm interested in hearing your path to coming here today and also where you are in your reading life right now. That brought you to what should I read next today?

A (8:45)

My whole adult life, my favorite type of book has been the sort of emotional, character driven books. And for most of my adult life, I also was fiercely against dnfing. I thought if I picked up a book, I needed to pay that author respect of finishing it because they put so much of their life and effort into making that book and writing that book that I should at least finish it. And that kind of ended up in me slogging my way through books that were not a good fit for me. And then at some point, I discovered, what should I read next? And I don't know if you had an episode about dnfing or you just talked about it in an episode, but something clicked for me that it was okay for a book to not be a good fit for me or for not a good fit for that time. And so several years ago, about probably eight or nine years ago, I started dnfing. And then soon after that I discovered audiobooks. And my reading life went from about a dozen books a year to like 60. And when you're reading like 60 books a year, if they're all heavy emotional books, that can get really exhausting. So I've started exploring new genres and in the last few years I've kind of found some nuance in different genres that I enjoy. Lately I've been really enjoying romance. I used to think that romance was not for me and I was kind of a snob about it and I refused to read them. And then I kind of accidentally read the sun is also a Star. Like I would not have picked that book up if I knew it was a YA romance. I thought YA is not for me and romance is not for me. But that book was so charming and sweet and heartfelt that I started exploring romance after that. And now I've found that it fits really nicely into my reading life. When I went want something that is a little lighter, that's easier to read, that's fun, where I know that everyone's gonna end up happy in the end. When I'm going for an emotional, you know, 500 page kind of book, I don't need it to be happy in the end. I don't need my characters to be likable. But sometimes I do want that reading experience. I'm hoping now that it's kind of getting cold out because I'm in Washington so it's going to rain until June now. I keep hearing about this genre called cozy mystery and I'm curious about exploring it and I'm wondering if it would fit into kind of a similar category that my romances do where they're easy to read, they're still fun and engaging and maybe have some depth to them. But I know in the end that the mystery is going to be solved and everyone's going to be happy and healthy.

B (11:33)

Yes.

A (11:34)

Yeah. So I, I tried to explore on YouTube to see, oh, what's top 10 cozy mysteries? And I was pretty immediately overwhelmed by the volume out there and not knowing where to start. So that's what brought me here today.

B (11:50)

Well, I love the journey that's brought you here today. And it's so interesting to me that you found success in this one genre, but that cozy mysteries were just overwhelming on YouTube. And I'm glad you came here because I imagine that you are by far not the only one in this readerly situation. And also it's such a pleasure for me, so thank you.

A (12:12)

Yeah.

B (12:13)

Okay, here's what I think we should do. Amber, I know you came prepared to talk about books you love and books you don't and what you're willing to take a chance on the books you've been reading lately. I'd love to build from there and talk about potential directions you could go with cozy mysteries. How does that sound to you?

A (12:28)

Sounds good.

B (12:30)

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A (15:33)

So I wanted to choose one book that was the character driven, emotional book that I tend to read that I love the most. And then I chose a romance, so the type of romance that I'm into. And then for the third one I went into my story graph to see if I had actually read any mysteries in the last year and I clicked the mystery tab and the only one that popped up was this one that I'm going to talk about.

B (15:58)

Okay, I love it. What's the first book you love?

A (16:01)

The first book I love, and I know readers have a hard time choosing one singular favorite book, but I would say that this is my one singular favorite book and it's east of Eden by John Steinbeck. I have read this book probably five or six times. There is a character named Lee in it and my oldest son, his middle name is Lee, in part because of that character. It's long, it's emotional, it spans decades, it hurts my feelings every time and I love it. It's really about these strong characters. And we get so much backstory on each of the characters that when they're making the choices and moves in the main part of the book, we really understand where they're coming from, because we know what kind of childhood they had and what happened to their mother and their hopes and their dreams and their fears. And so when they're doing things on the page, it has more depth, I think. And I know this book is not for everyone, but it is definitely for me.

B (17:09)

Amber, I appreciate that. Bold choice of favorite ever. Like, favorite, like, named a kid after a character. Ever book. Do I remember reading that you love a long book?

A (17:20)

I love a long book. Yeah. I mean, that book is like 600 something pages, I think. And every time I finish it, I think I could spend 500 more pages with these characters, which is ridiculous.

B (17:31)

I know, but I mean, I hear what you're saying, and also, I've definitely felt that way about books I love. I remember writing an essay in high school about something no one loves but you, and I wrote about long books. Like, if you. If you love spending time in a world, why wouldn't you want to spend more time there? And I'm older now, and I don't feel quite as emphatic about it because a reason I wouldn't want to spend more time there is because there's so many other worlds and characters I could get to know, but I'm tracking with you. Ooh, what a world to spend a lot of time in, though, because I didn't read this book until I was in my 30s, and I just. I didn't know what people were referencing when they just tossed out the words east of Eden. And now I know. And there's a lot in that book.

A (18:19)

Yeah, it gets pretty heavy in parts, for sure.

B (18:23)

Okay, so that's the kind of character driven, emotional read that you love and also can't do for 60 books a year. Doesn't feel good.

A (18:30)

Yeah.

B (18:31)

Okay. Amber, what's the second book you love?

A (18:34)

Yours Truly by Abby Jimenez. So as I've been exploring romance, I have discovered that I love Abby Jimenez. I have not read all of her books, but every one of that I've read I've absolutely loved because I find she's just really good at creating characters that feel like real people. And I believe her romances when they happen. Like, when the characters fall in love, I believe it and I feel it because each of the characters has so much depth. So in this one, it is about Dr. Brianna Ortiz, and she is up for a promotion. And then this other doctor swoops in, Dr. Jacob Maddox, and she thinks that he is going to swoop in and take her promotion. But, you know, of course, it's a romance. So he writes her a letter. And the letter writing is really sweet. And Abby Jimenez just writes really romantic men, like, they are sensitive and their heart is on their sleeve, and they're just obsessed with the female main character. And I love reading that. But Brianna is dealing with a lot of heaviness in her life. And I, like, her brother is really sick. And I felt like she wrote that really well. And then Jacob is dealing with anxiety, and I felt like she wrote that really well. And how two people can come with baggage, essentially, but still fall in love. And I think that that's really beautiful. That's what I like in my romances.

B (20:01)

Amber, what I'm hearing is that you still really enjoy emotional reads and that you still really enjoy understanding the characters and their motivations.

A (20:11)

I do. But when you go into the romance, you know that it's gonna work out. And that's. That's a comforting thing. When you. When I'm reading. Oh, gosh, she has a lot going on with her sick brother. Like, can she get into a relationship right now? But, you know, it's a romance. She's gonna be happy with this man at the end.

B (20:26)

So it's baked in.

A (20:27)

It is.

B (20:28)

Okay, that's helpful. Amber, what's the third book you love?

A (20:32)

The third book I loved is the one that was tagged as mystery on storygraph, and it's the Kamigawa Food Detectives by Kisashi Kashiwai. I wouldn't have thought of it as a mystery, even though it has detective in the title. I have kind of a soft spot in my reading life for those quiet slice of life Japanese fiction, you know, like Convenience Store Woman, what you're looking for in the library. And so that's what drew me to this book. And it's about a father and daughter in Kyoto, Japan. And they have a restaurant where people can come and describe a dish or a meal that they had at some point and get them to make a recipe for that dish. And so they'll come in and say, I'm really craving my mom's stew, but she passed away 20 years ago. And so they'll describe this stew and the daughter will ask questions like, well, where is your mother from? And what did you feel like when you were eating this Stewart do? And then we cut to a couple weeks later, so we don't see Them do the detective work. But we cut to a couple weeks later, and they're describing how they came up with the recipe. Like, well, since your mom is from this region of Japan, that meant she probably used this brand of noodles, and you guys grew up in this neighborhood. And so she probably shopped at this market and got this type of vegetables or whatever. And I thought it was just a really sweet story about how food connects to who we are as people and to our culture and how it's more than just the recipe on the page, but also the memories and who you eat it with. And I thought it was very sweet.

B (22:06)

It was very sweet.

A (22:07)

It was.

B (22:08)

What percentage of the time do you want to read sweet stories?

A (22:11)

Oh, that's a good question. Not every time. I would say the story still felt like it had some substance. We didn't go super deep into any backstories because it was kind of just a couple of chapters on each new character.

B (22:25)

Yeah. And it's like a what if kind of book. Is that fair? Like, imagine a world in which.

A (22:30)

Oh, yeah, the. The sweetness made it a nice, breezy read.

B (22:36)

Because you could trust it was going to stay gentle.

A (22:39)

Yeah, I could trust it was going to stay gentle and cozy.

B (22:42)

Okay, Amber, tell me about a book that wasn't right for you. And you were talking about dnfing and mentioned a couple of factors that might make you put a book down, but also might lead to a book just not being a good fit. So I'm interested in hearing, did it not align with your taste? Was the timing wrong? Was it about a topic that wasn't right for you, at least right now? What did you choose?

A (23:03)

Do people get nervous before they share their.

B (23:06)

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Because you're ready to talk about it. And then I think internally it's like, oh, but. But am I? Yeah, are you?

A (23:15)

Amber, I'm ready. I'm ready. It's okay.

B (23:17)

This is a safe space. What did you choose?

A (23:19)

I chose Normal People by Sally Rooney. I think on paper, this sounds like a book that would be a good fit for me. Like, it's well written, the characters are complex. There's a lot of heartache in it, but there's just a couple things that made it difficult for me. So in the beginning, when these two characters get together, this is in the beginning, so it's not spoiling anything. They are teenagers, and they're. They're getting together on a dirty mattress in an abandoned building. And that just kind of gave me the heebie jeebies right from the start. And throughout the book as they're being drawn to each other and they have this connection. I had a hard time believing it and believe I don't know what it is. Maybe it's because I work with children. Even though I work with younger children, I see teenagers as children. And so just that beginning part was really hard for me to read.

B (24:16)

Readers. Amber just told me something that feels spoilery as it indicates how a character handled a situation that was thrust upon her in the novel. And I'm gonna take that into consideration, but we're not gonna talk about it here, except to say that as we're entering this conversation about cozy mysteries and your expectations for them. Amber, I think it would be fun for you to look at books that maybe play with the genre, but not books that throw you a wrench by being something that you felt you weren't. Like. You're open to surprise.

A (24:51)

Yeah.

B (24:52)

But expectations matter as a reader.

A (24:56)

Yeah.

B (24:57)

Okay. Thanks for telling me about that. What have you been reading lately?

A (25:01)

I just finished Best Offer Wins by Marisa Cascino.

B (25:06)

Okay. Given the cozy conversation. Yeah. I'm a little surprised, and I want to hear more.

A (25:10)

Okay. I read maybe one thriller a year. If I hear a lot of good things about it, I'll go for it. It's kind of out of my wheelhouse, but I really enjoyed it. I thought it was kind of even funny. It's not gory because I can't do gore, but it took a common anxiety that a lot of people are feeling right now about the housing market and just kind of sent the character off the deep end with it. And it was really propulsive. I think I read it in, like, two days. Yeah, it was a lot of fun.

B (25:42)

This is one of those, like, so bad, it's good. Wait, you mentioned you like likeable characters. And is anybody in this book likable? But they're, like, fun. They're just so larger than life.

A (25:54)

Yeah. I don't need my characters to be likable in. In a romance. I do. I. I want to know why they're falling in love and, like my romance characters. But. Yeah, nobody in this book is really likable.

B (26:05)

No, in. The extremes in this book, like, are almost. I mean, it's not silly like, you're giggling, but, like, it's kind of silly.

A (26:13)

Yeah, it's. It's outlandish. I mean, the. The last chapter in the epilogue had my jaw on the floor. I can't believe they're doing this in this book. What. What is happening?

B (26:22)

Yeah. And I don't mean, so. I mean, like, outlandish. I mean, there's no way this is real.

A (26:28)

Yeah.

B (26:29)

In a way that I thought felt like comforting as a reader.

A (26:32)

Yeah.

B (26:33)

Like, I can let go. This is imaginary.

A (26:35)

Yes. Thank goodness.

B (26:36)

Although I did really want to see, like, a map of that neighborhood and, like, an inside tour. I want to scroll through, like, all 140 realtor photos of some of those listings.

A (26:46)

Yes, I was thinking that, too. I need to go do some Zillow stalking right now.

B (26:51)

Oh, I hear you. Okay. What else have you tried lately, Amber?

A (26:55)

I also recently finished the book that's probably going to end up being my favorite book of the year, My Friends by Fredrik Backman.

B (27:02)

Oh. Emotional, character driven. It is. Unfolds over years.

A (27:06)

Yes, exactly. Yep. It felt like a less sad, a little life. Like, it's following friends and it's sad. And it's about how the people in your life impact you and change who you are, but not in such a heavy way and just beautifully written. I think Backman just writes so beautifully.

B (27:26)

I mean, I think I laughed a lot during this book. That also gutted me. But what is he? He makes a lot of jokes about teenagers.

A (27:32)

Yep.

B (27:33)

He makes some jokes about bragging not to brag. But, yeah, it was endearing as it was like, you know, all the big cliches ripping your heart out.

A (27:42)

Yeah.

B (27:42)

Stomping your heart on the floor, all that. Okay.

A (27:45)

Yeah.

B (27:46)

And, Amber, I would love to hear more about what you're looking for in your reading life right now, Particularly, how do you hear about cozy mysteries? And what about that made you think I should find out more? Those might be the books for me.

A (28:02)

I mean, I like things that are described as cozy, so there's that. I think I was hearing about it probably on a reading podcast, yours or another one. And I was, because I've been having such success in romance. I was thinking, and I could be totally wrong in this perception, but I was thinking that it might fill that similar sort of niche in my reading life where when I want something that's just kind of fun to read, that is maybe got some twists and turns that make me like, oh, wow, they did that. Or, oh, I didn't see that coming, that kind of vibe. But without it being heavy and dark, that's where the cozy word comes in. Because I hear the word mystery and I think heavy and dark and things lurking in the shadows. But then I hear cozy, and I'm like, oh, but like, they're drinking tea and it's. It ends up happy in the end. And I'm hoping that that's maybe what I will find without gore. And my questions are like, is that a reasonable expectation to have a cozy mystery as something that is fun to read and ends happy in the end?

B (29:14)

Yes, I think that's reasonable. I like your instincts here, Amber. Let's recap. The books you loved were east of Eden by John Steinbeck. Character driven, emotional, lifetime favorite kind of read, Yours Truly by Abby Jimenez. And it's your success with romances like these that make you think cozy mystery is perhaps a genre that you can pivot into. Next. And then the Kamigawa of Food Detectives by Hisashi Kashiwai. And you were intrigued by this because you have a fondness for Japanese slice of life fiction. It's kind of quiet, but paints a interesting and cozy world. Also, I think it's so interesting. This is the only mystery you read last year or maybe this year year so far. And still we're like, yes, cozy mysteries. But I hear you. Like, you started a search, you got overwhelmed. Today we can really focus on ones that feel right for you. So I'm thinking about how you're never going to leave interesting, compelling characters behind, even in Best Offer Wins. Like, you understood her motivations and what was driving her to these desperate lengths very clearly. I mean, is that I'm making this up as I go, but does that sound right?

A (30:26)

Yeah, absolutely. This character is nuts, and I don't want to be anywhere near her, but I want to see everything she does.

B (30:33)

Yeah. And I'm also. This isn't a requirement, I don't think. But you love a long book, which is making me think that one of those. I don't want to lump everything together, but there are some cozy mystery series that have a bunch of really short, Fun Books. They're 180, 200 pages each. There's 40 in a series. Like, they go real fast. I'm thinking, that's not where we're gonna go today. Does that feel right?

A (30:59)

Yeah, that feels right. I mean, one of the things that overwhelmed me when I looked up cozy mysteries was that so often they do have these long series. But then I thought, well, sometimes I want to stay with characters for a long time, and maybe that's a way to do that. But if there's long, cozy mysteries, then, yeah, I'm down for that, too.

B (31:17)

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A (32:25)

Yeah.

B (32:27)

So cozy mysteries have a lot of features commonly that are what you're describing. Like you can reasonably expect very little gore, very little profanity, very little like steamy scenes on the page. Cozy mysteries often have a murder, but the murder happened. But it's going to happen in like a small town or cozy community setting. So most of these take place in a small town or a village. Everyone knows each other. The mystery is gonna be solved by like an 82 year old gardener who, I don't know, also happens to construct crossword puzzles and has read enough Agatha Christie books that she's like cracking amateur detective in these settings, like a lot of times everybody knows your name, everybody knows everybody and their whole backstory and history. So the sleuth, which sometimes is a detective but often is, I don't know, your friend's granny, your neighbor who runs the is car wash, a cozy profession, your neighbor who's a stamp collector who also trades and rare books. And there's 14 cats that everybody knows by name in the shop. Like this is your cozy mystery setting. You mentioned that you were an animal crossing fan.

A (33:46)

Yes.

B (33:48)

I'm thinking that that's a good starting point for understanding the setting of a cozy mystery.

A (33:54)

Yeah.

B (33:54)

In a cozy mystery, often, but not always, there is a murder and sometimes the murder's more violent than others, but it's never happens on the page and you will not get graphic descriptions of anything.

A (34:09)

Right.

B (34:10)

Agatha Christie is often considered to be the mother of cozy mysteries. And you know, her people died, but they got poisoned. Like it was quiet or they got often other ways but off screen. And it wasn't lingered on. It's a fact that they have died or been harmed. And now we're gonna figure out why. But the focus is on the why, not on any kind of violence. Angela Lansbury in Murder she Wrote is also often referenced as a cozy mystery. Not inspiration exactly, but that show was out about the same time the term cozy was coined for the book world. And I think those two elements are inextricably linked in people's mind. So also in cozy's when you are describing the Kamigawa food detectives and how food and those books connect to who we are as people and the memories of who we are. And those details were very much in the page. Food and cooking and detailed descriptions of food and drinks that characters enjoy or make are often prevalent in cozies and sometimes like a big theme. Maybe we'll talk about one of those books that feels like a very food focused cozy. Amateur sleuths are a big one. Friends and family members helping solve the crime, often huge. Like these are books that take place in a community. There's often animals in these books. Sometimes these animals talk and help solve crimes. But sometimes they're just present. And then something many people associate with cozy mysteries is puns. If you see a book called the Quiche of Death, that is going to be a cozy mystery. Vinyl resting place that is a cozy mystery. But then you have lots of different kinds of cozy mysteries. Like there's historical and paranormal and romantic. And you mentioned that understanding more about what you were getting from a specific romance novel really helped you find your way in there. I think maybe talking about a few cozy mysteries and knowing what to expect could help you wade into these waters. How's this all sounding so far? What are you thinking?

A (36:20)

That's sounding delightful. I'm excited.

B (36:24)

Okay. Now Amber, we already talked about how I'm not going to give you three recommendations because I think you need more to explore. But let's get you some standalones and then some series because as a reader who really enjoys getting to know characters and spending time with them, I think something that could really potentially appeal to you about cozy mysteries is getting situated in a long running series where you can see these characters evolve not just over the course of a book, but over the course of of many novels. And it could be 30. But it doesn't have to be like that intimidating. Like some of the series we're going to talk about today have like four or five.

A (37:01)

Okay.

B (37:02)

How do you feel about series?

A (37:04)

I feel okay with series. I haven't read a series in a very long time. I usually read the standalone, but I'm intrigued, willing to try it.

B (37:14)

Okay, I'm glad to hear it. Let's start with a book that's not quite a romance at cozy, but does have a romance in the plot. But again, not a romance. It's called welcome to Murder Week by Karen Duckess. It just came out this summer. Is this one that you've seen around that you're familiar with?

A (37:30)

I have not heard of this one.

B (37:31)

Okay. This is a cozy with just a little bit of bite. It's a story about a woman who was estranged from her mother and after her mother dies unexpectedly, the daughter who's an adult, I think she's in her late 30s. I not entirely sure that is accurate, but she's a full fledged adult and she's going through her mother's things after her mother's death and she's just shocked to discover that her mom has purchased the two of them tickets to take a trip together to England to the English countryside because they are going to experience the tourist phenomenon of Murder Week together. So my parents hosted a couple murder mystery parties when I was little where everybody plays a character. This small British town has decided to revitalize their community which has been struggling financially by hosting Murder Week where people come from all over the globe to take place in this immersive, week long residential murder mystery game. So this does not sound like the kind of thing that this adult daughter or her mother were ever into. But she keeps thinking like, there has to be a reason my mother wanted me to do this with her. So she decides to take the trip herself. And she soon discovers her mother had very personal reasons for wanting to go to this district in England and wanting her daughter to experience it too. So when you said that you really enjoyed Abby Jimenez, often Abby's characters have some pain point in their past that is holding them back from like fully committing to the romantic relationship on offer to them. And we see them wrestle with the past and really struggle with how they might move forward in the future. Welcome to Murder Week reminds me of Abby Jimenez's romances because we see that same dynamic at play here in the book. And I think that could be interesting for you. It doesn't feel as earnest as it does in Abbey's explorations, but it's very much there with kind of like the cheeky tone and the intrigue of a Cozy mystery. So you've also got the quirky stuff, setting handsome strangers, sharp retorts from the other tourists. There's just some fun stuff here. And the book does go into hard topics, as you can probably tell, but the tone feels light throughout. When I read this, I thought, you know, gosh, this doesn't feel unlike Richard Osmond if that makes any of you listeners ears perk up. But also it didn't feel that far afield from Abby or like Annabelle Monahan. How does that sound to you?

A (40:09)

That sounds like a lot of fun. I like a good, you know, travel to a new place for an odd reason kind of book.

B (40:17)

So I'm intrigued. All right, I'm glad to hear it. Okay, let's do a cozy that's more of an actual romance. This is the Most Wonderful Crime of the Year by Ally Carter, who also wrote the Blonde Identity and the Blonde who Came in from the Cold. Are any of these books familiar to you?

A (40:37)

I remember hearing a lot of hype about the Most Wonderful Crime of the Year last year, but I wasn't open to mysteries yet. And so I was like, oh, that's not for me, but this might be the year that I try it.

B (40:48)

Okay, maybe it is. So this is a banter filled rom com about rival mystery writers who are both invited to this lauded legendary romance writers home. I mean, English manor in the countryside. And while there they have to team up to solve a mystery and also stay alive. You know, they're going to be fine at the end, but also people are getting hurt and it's scary and they're like, you know, running down corridors trying to figure out who are the good guys and who are the bad guys and how are they going to stay safe. This book is also very much inspired by Agatha Christie's real life disappearance for a short period of time during like the peak of her career. Ally Carter also described this as her own rom com twist on Knives Out. It's fun, it's fast. Maybe it's the kind of thing readers, including you, are looking for this time of year. How does something like that sound?

A (41:44)

That sounds great. I like when you mentioned Knives out because I loved that movie. I'm a teacher, so I get two weeks off in winter and I like to just fill up with nice fun thematic reads during that week or those two weeks. So that could be a good one for me.

B (41:59)

Okay, glad to hear it. Now historical mystery is a big, big subgenre. Wait, did I say historical mystery? Historical cozy is what we're really honing in On Today. And I wonder if you might enjoy Murder at Gull's Nest by Jess Kidd. And one of the reasons I like this is that it features something that we see a lot in cozy mysteries, and that is season protagonists who are older have often lived lives off the beaten path. Or at least when I say off the beaten path, I mean not quite the same as most mystery protagonists, if there is such a thing. So this is a British murder mystery experience that's set in an English village by the sea with definitely an unlikely amateur sleuth. Her name is Nora Breen. This book is going to be the first in the series so we'll get to know more about Nora. But in this book we learn she's been living as a nun for 30 years, but she left her order in order to search for her missing friend Frida. When she was a nun, she was constantly being told not to ask so many questions. Why do you question everything? Just accept what we say and go with it and be quiet. But now she's still the nun who asked too many questions. And that propensity makes her a very good investigator, as it turns out. So Nora's got to go figure out what happened to her friend Frida. But also, this is simultaneously very much the story of a middle aged woman who spent 30 years doing one thing and is now struggling to find her footing after making a huge life transition. And we haven't talked about audiobooks a lot. I heard you say you have a bit of a commute and so you love to listen to those. This audiobook is fantastic. It's read by Siobhan McSweeney, who read a Ghost in the Throat, which is one of my favorite audiobooks in recent years. She also played Sister Michael in Derry Girls, if that means anything to you. How does that sound?

A (43:53)

I like the sound of good on audio and I like the image of a nun solving a mystery. That sounds like a lot of fun.

B (44:01)

You could also get really fun with historical cozies if you wanted to. Like modern Mrs. Darcy. Book clubber was mentioning when we had an event this week that she had just gotten her copy of a cozy mystery that she'd been really looking forward to. It's a, I think five book right now series where the whole premise is Agatha Christie's housekeeper is solving murders. So if you like the idea of entering into that kind of real but not real world, there's lots of fun, lots of fun options in cozies. That one is called Murder at Mallowen Hall. If you're interested. And then I mentioned that food focused cozies are prevalent. And the Arsenic and Adobo, well, it's not a series. The series is Tita Rosie's Kitchen. But Arsenic and Adobo is the first book. Oh, and I know you had lots of questions about what order to read these in.

A (44:57)

Yeah, when there's a series, do I start at one or can I just jump in at whichever one sounds most fun?

B (45:03)

I think it's fair to assume you can jump in any time unless you were explicitly told otherwise.

A (45:08)

Okay.

B (45:09)

In all the books we've talked about, and this is true for cozies generally, the author is writing to be hospitable to readers, starting at book five or book one. And you'll read it a little differently. Like, you'll understand more character nuance and you'll see more connections if you start later. And sometimes you are explicitly told otherwise. Like, we're going to talk about the Magpie Murders series in a moment. And like, you're told explicitly at the beginning of book three, like, hey, you can start right here, but we're gonna talk about how the crime in book one was resolved. So if you don't wanna do that, then don't start here, please. But usually you can jump in and it's fine. Many series are very much same characters, but they stand alone very nicely. And that's true for this series, I believe. So Arsenic and Adobo is the first in this culinary cozy series that's set in this fictional town in Illinois where there's a restaurant worker named Leila. She's also an amateur sleuth, and she's developing some expertise in investigating suspicious murders in her community, which is Filipino American, Everybody knows everybody. Sometimes there's a little bit of romance. There's always family ties playing a strong role. And absolutely delicious sounding Filipino food, sometimes with recipes, always are front and center in these books. So in this first book, Leila moves back home. She takes a job at Tita Rosie's. The restaurant has not been doing so great lately. But then her ex boyfriend, who's also the town food critic, drops in to eat. And he drops dead while eating the food Leela made. So she's accused. She knows she didn't do it, so she's got to solve the crime to save herself. Because if she can figure out who did it, she can prove that she's innocent. So with the help of her best friend, who in classic cozy style is a barista next door, and also she has an adorable little pup she's going to solve the crime. How's that sounding?

A (47:20)

That sounds like a lot of fun. Her ex drops dead in her restaurant and she has to go solve it. That sounds fun.

B (47:27)

Yeah. I mean, that sounds like a bad week, but, you know, with your barista bestie and your cute little dachshund, it's all going to work out in the end. And that's the thing, you know, it's all going to work out in the end. Okay, now I'm wondering if I'm on the right track here. Okay, here's what I was wondering. So there's this series by Anthony Horwitz called the Susan Ryland Detective Novels. And I liked these for you because they're not strictly cozies, but now I wonder if you really do want to jump in with two feet. So. With two feet? With both feet. That would be what we say. But these books, and there's three of them right now, are like this mashup of cozy mystery and a more contemporary, traditional mystery. They feature books within books. And we have an amateur sleuth who's a book editor for a small press solving the crimes. So the first one, Magpie Murder, begins with, we read half a novel, and it's a long novel. It's like 500 pages, which makes me think, oh, this has Amber's name on it. But we get a cozy mystery very much in the vein of Agatha Christie. Then the editor finds out the final chapter's missing. She finds out a crime has been committed, and she's like, oh, I'm gonna solve this thing. The clues are in the story. This is a cozy mystery. That's more than a cozy mystery. This is gonna tell me what happens. And she starts digging. So we've got a book within a book. It's definitely metafictional. It's an homage to the golden age of crime fiction. But also it's doing something. Something modern with it. And I wondered if that could be a good baby step, more than a baby step, but if that could be a good move in the direction of a new genre that still has firm roots in what we already know you like, which is character driven. So in the direction of what you already know you like and like already expect from your fiction. So I think you could enjoy this.

A (49:30)

But.

B (49:32)

I wonder if you're like, no, take me to the place with the talking animals.

A (49:37)

I like both. I mean, that's really intriguing. The book within a book. So is it like you're literally just reading a cozy mystery and then all of a sudden you're taken out of it before the last chapter.

B (49:48)

Okay, yeah, that's what happens.

A (49:50)

Okay, that could be fun.

B (49:52)

And it's very clear. You turn the page and it says, you know, title. It's the fictional protagonist is Atticus Poond. And so you'll turn the page and it'll be like, oh, here's your mystery featuring Atticus Pond. And you are in that book for a long time. And you hear all about the author later. Alan Conway. He's had a very conflict ridden relationship with his editor for years. They put up with him though, because his readers love him. He doesn't feel the same way about his readers. Just lots of wry humor. I'm curious what you would think. It often gets described as a cozy. I don't think it's a true cozy. But it's having a lot of fun with cozy mysteries and their conventions. And you do get a cozy within a larger novel. And that back and forth between the book within the book and the book in your hand that's holding the book within. It's a lot of fun. Maybe for the right reader, for many readers. And maybe you're one of them.

A (50:54)

And you know, I'm open to dnfing now. So if I don't like it, then I can just stop.

B (50:58)

Yes, so much freedom there. But if we want to swing the other direction, not baby steps, but like Deep End. Shady Hollow by Juno Black. This series, and this is the starter book, is a real crowd pleaser. The COVID just looks so happy. There's a fox wearing a dress. It almost looks like ridiculous to see a murder mystery. And pretty pink font on the top. But when our team member Bridget was describing this to me, she's like, okay, imagine an idyllic town similar to Stars Hollow. But all the townsfolk are animals like in Fantastic Mr. Fox and Zootopia. And the setting is just adorable. Think Animal Crossing. The characters are quirky and mammalian. The villagers all have clevel names. You know, this adorable community. But then this crappy old toad is murdered and this adorable little newcomer named Vera Vixen has to get to the bottom of the mystery before anything bad happens to anybody else in the community. I think you could see the COVID and make your call worth seeing. What you think.

A (52:01)

Yeah, it sounds silly and delightful. You said Stars Hollow. I'm a big Gilmore Girls fan. So Stars Hollow, but with animals and they're solving a mystery. That. That sounds like a lot of fun.

B (52:12)

I hope so. That's six, so I don't want to pile on too much. But the Marlowe Murder Club I think has fun characters, but a lot of that character development and growth you're looking for. I Wonder about Alexander McCall Smith's the Number One Ladies Detective Agency. And Uzma Jalaluddin writes romances and has just pivoted into cozy mystery with her new book Detective Auntie that was in the summer reading guide. It came out in May. Book two in the series is coming out next summer. I think that could also be a lot of fun for you. Tight community characters with strong motivations dealing with stuff from their past in the vein of Abby Jimenez. All right, how are you feeling, Amber?

A (52:58)

I am feeling absolutely spoiled with choices.

B (53:01)

Right now that might be a bad thing. Do you have okay, so we talked about a few fair number of books. Welcome to Murder Week, the most wonderful crime of the year. Murder at Gull's Nest. Lots of murder in these titles. Arsenic and Adobo, Magpie Murders, Shady Hollow. Tossed out a couple more series. Is it clear to you what you may want to pick up next?

A (53:24)

I'm kind of between Murder at Gull's Nest and Shady Hollow, so maybe I'll pick up one on audio and one in print and see what happens.

B (53:36)

That's an excellent idea. I will be so curious to hear what you think, and truly, I think you'll be oriented in no time. Once you find one you love, it'll be so much easier to find the next and the next and the next and then you'll be a whiz.

A (53:51)

Yay. That sounds so exciting. I can't wait.

B (53:54)

I'm excited for you and I'd love to hear how it goes. Amber, thank you so much for bringing your query to the show. It was a pleasure to talk books with you today.

A (54:03)

Thank you. It was a real treat to be here today.

B (54:10)

Hey readers, I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Amber and I'd love to hear what you think she should read next. Find the full list of titles we talked about today at what Should I read next podcast.com we send out regular emails about our latest podcast episodes and other news to know if you are not on that list or or if you're not sure if you are. It's quick and easy to sign up at what Should I read next podcast.com newsletter. Make sure you check your promotions folder or drag our emails into your main inbox so you never miss a message. Follow along in Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast wherever you listen to your podcasts by following or subscribing and especially downloading each episode as it comes out. You help boost our show stats which in the quickly changing world of podcasting really makes a profound difference for our show. Thank you so much for taking a moment to check your settings on your favorite podcast platform. If you have a moment to leave a five star rating or a review, we would really appreciate that too. Thanks to the people who make the show happen. What Should I Read Next Is created each week by Executive Producer Will Bogle, Media Production Specialist Holly Wilkachevsky, Social Media maker, manager and Editor Lee Kramer, Community Coordinator Bridget Mistlehorn, Community Manager Shannon Malone, and our whole team at what Should I Read next in modern Mrs. Darcy HQ with help from the audio whizzes at Studio D Podcast Production readers, that's it for this episode. Thanks so much for listening and as Reiner Maria Rilke said, ah, how good it is to be among people who are reading. Happy reading everyone.