Podcast Summary: What the Fundraising – Episode 217: Reshaping Systemic Change with Dr. Kevin Sansberry
Release Date: December 10, 2024
Host: Mallory Erickson
Guest: Dr. Kevin Sansberry
Duration: Approximately 40 minutes
Introduction to Systems Change
In this episode of What the Fundraising, host Mallory Erickson welcomes Dr. Kevin Sansberry, a renowned expert in behavior science and organizational change. Dr. Sansberry shares his diverse background, transitioning from human resources to founding his own firm in 2021, where he employs behavioral science across various sectors, including nonprofits. His approach emphasizes the integration of personal and systemic transformations to foster meaningful organizational change.
Notable Quote:
"Using science and psychology as it relates to how do we make these systems better? That's what I focus on."
— Dr. Kevin Sansberry [03:20]
Balancing Individual Accountability and Systemic Change
The conversation delves into the interplay between individual roles and the broader organizational systems. Dr. Sansberry introduces the "Person-Role-System" framework, highlighting the importance of not placing undue responsibility on individuals to drive systemic change. Instead, he advocates for collective action where everyone, regardless of their position, leverages both formal and informal power to commit to organizational transformation.
Key Points:
- System vs. Individual Focus: Overemphasizing individual change can inadvertently blame those affected by systemic issues.
- Collective Action: Effective systems change requires collaboration across all levels of an organization.
Notable Quote:
"We shouldn't be looking and blaming people at the people level. We need to look at, okay, how can we be gentle on each other and tough on the system together."
— Dr. Kevin Sansberry [07:21]
Navigating Discomfort and Privilege
Mallory and Dr. Sansberry discuss the inherent discomfort that arises when challenging established norms and stepping out of privileged positions. They explore how personal accountability intersects with systemic change, emphasizing the necessity of self-work alongside organizational efforts. Dr. Sansberry underscores that individual transformation is a prerequisite for effective systems change, advocating for practices like therapy and self-reflection to address personal biases and privileges.
Key Points:
- Discomfort as a Catalyst: Recognizing and embracing discomfort can lead to meaningful change.
- Privilege Awareness: Understanding one's own privileges is essential in fostering equitable environments.
Notable Quote:
"Systems change does not change without the people within the system change and transforming. And so what's required is self work along the way."
— Dr. Kevin Sansberry [16:07]
Identifying and Addressing Elephants in the Room
A significant portion of the episode focuses on identifying "elephants in the room"—unspoken or avoided issues within organizations. Dr. Sansberry elaborates on how financial instability often underlies many of these hidden problems, such as sexual harassment and toxic leadership. By addressing the root causes, organizations can mitigate these secondary issues more effectively.
Key Points:
- Financial Instability: Often the root cause of many organizational problems, leading to compromised ethics and practices.
- Communication Barriers: Creating spaces where difficult topics can be openly discussed to foster transparency and accountability.
- Identifying Signs: Recognizing tension and silence in meetings as indicators of unresolved issues.
Notable Quotes:
"Financial instability is on the leader's mind. And so they will put up with stuff like harassment because of financial instability."
— Dr. Kevin Sansberry [20:00]
"Tension and silence are some of the biggest flags that you would have in a group meeting. Those are the undiscussables."
— Dr. Kevin Sansberry [33:31]
Leadership, Authenticity, and Next Steps
The discussion culminates with insights into authentic leadership and the varied ways individuals can contribute to systemic change based on their unique roles and privileges. Dr. Sansberry encourages listeners to leverage their specific positions—whether as teachers, leaders, or parents—to enact meaningful change. He emphasizes that authenticity must be contextual, allowing individuals to act in ways that align with their circumstances without succumbing to guilt or comparison.
Key Points:
- Authentic Leadership: Embracing one's true self within the constraints and opportunities of their role.
- Personal Action Plans: Developing strategies that consider both formal and informal power dynamics.
- Collaborative Vision: Co-creating a shared vision to minimize feelings of loss and transition smoothly to new organizational realities.
Notable Quote:
"Your power doesn't have to look the same as everybody else's. Your role is also not the same as everyone else's."
— Dr. Kevin Sansberry [40:14]
Conclusion and Resources
Dr. Kevin Sansberry concludes the episode by sharing resources for listeners interested in his work, including his consultancy (Kevra Consulting LLC), LinkedIn profile, and his Toxic Leadership podcast. He encourages continuous self-work and collective efforts to drive systemic change effectively.
Notable Quote:
"Do your self work both on the bright side and the shadow side? You will thank yourself later."
— Dr. Kevin Sansberry [44:14]
Takeaways
- Embrace Collective Accountability: Systems change requires a unified effort from all organizational levels.
- Address Root Causes: Financial stability is crucial in preventing secondary issues like harassment and toxic cultures.
- Foster Open Communication: Encourage discussions around uncomfortable topics to enhance transparency and trust.
- Leverage Authentic Roles: Utilize your unique position and privileges to contribute to systemic transformations.
- Commit to Self-Work: Continuous personal development is essential for meaningful and sustainable change.
For More Information:
- Dr. Kevin Sansberry’s Consultancy: kevraconsulting.com
- LinkedIn: Dr. Kevin Sansberry
- Toxic Leadership Podcast: Available on all major podcast platforms.
Visit MalloryErickson.com/Podcast for full episode transcripts, additional resources, and to subscribe to What the Fundraising.