225: The Critical Role of HR in Nonprofits with Arum Lee Lansel

Summary

Podcast Summary: "The Critical Role of HR in Nonprofits with Arum Lee Lansel" (Episode 225)

Introduction

In Episode 225 of What the Fundraising, host Mallory Erickson delves into the pivotal role of Human Resources (HR) within nonprofit organizations. Featuring HR consultant Arum Lee Lansel, the episode explores how strategic HR practices can transform nonprofit workplaces, enhance employee well-being, and ultimately amplify organizational impact.

Guest Background

Arum Lee Lansel brings a rich tapestry of experiences to the conversation. With a career spanning over two decades, Arum transitioned from fashion design at Cornell University to international development, philanthropy at the Packard Foundation, and venture capital. Her diverse background culminates in her current role as an HR consultant specializing in small nonprofits. Arum shared, “This is where I can make the most impact” (02:36).

Redefining HR in Nonprofits

Arum emphasizes the necessity of rebranding HR beyond its traditional perception of compliance and protection. She asserts, “HR is the most important asset in any organization, which is the people” (05:43). By shifting the focus to fostering a thriving workforce, nonprofits can ensure that their programs and missions are effectively supported by a motivated and well-supported team.

The Thrive Model Framework

To guide nonprofits in enhancing their HR practices, Arum introduces the Thrive Model—a structured framework comprising three levels:

1. Stabilize: Focuses on fundamental compliance and organizational basics such as employee handbooks, correct classification of employees, payroll stabilization, and record-keeping.

2. Support: Centers on enabling high performance through processes like performance reviews, compensation plans, and manager training.

3. Sustain: Aims for long-term cultural change with strategies for employee engagement, succession planning, and establishing a robust feedback culture.

Arum explains, “You can't get there overnight and you can't ignore if the organization doesn't have some foundational basics in place” (07:54).

Addressing Burnout in Nonprofits

Burnout is a significant issue within the nonprofit sector, often exacerbated by high-pressure environments and unclear organizational structures. Arum challenges the notion that burnout is solely an individual issue, stating, “Burnout is not a medical condition... it's about the organization making changes” (17:22). She advocates for structural changes over temporary fixes like wellness programs, highlighting the importance of sustainable HR practices in mitigating chronic stress.

The Role of Leadership

Effective leadership is crucial for implementing meaningful HR changes. Arum notes, “If your leadership is not interested in making the workplace better, you're not going to get very far” (11:28). Leaders must exhibit a genuine commitment to creating a supportive work environment, which serves as the foundation for organizational success and employee satisfaction.

Power Dynamics with Funders

Nonprofits often navigate complex power dynamics with funders, which can impact internal culture and staff well-being. Arum advises nonprofits to engage in honest and vulnerable conversations with funders about their internal challenges. She shares, “Funders have more honest and real awareness of that reality” (24:31). Building transparent relationships with funders can lead to more supportive partnerships that prioritize the health and sustainability of nonprofit teams.

Importance of Manager Support and Training

Managers play a critical role in shaping employee experiences and mitigating burnout. Arum emphasizes, “Employees experience of those things is strongly driven by their supervisor, their manager” (22:24). Providing managers with the necessary support and training is essential for fostering a positive and productive work environment.

Closing and Connection

As the episode concludes, Arum encourages listeners to connect with her via LinkedIn and her website, www.allinall4impact.com. She underscores the importance of structured HR practices in creating sustainable and impactful nonprofit organizations.

Final Thoughts

Mallory Erickson wraps up the episode by reiterating the significance of integrating robust HR strategies to combat burnout, enhance organizational culture, and drive meaningful change within the nonprofit sector. Listeners are encouraged to visit MalloryErickson.com/Podcast for additional resources and to explore her coaching programs designed to empower nonprofit leaders.

Notable Quotes

• “HR is the most important asset in any organization, which is the people.” – Arum Lee Lansel (05:43)
• “You can't get there overnight and you can't ignore if the organization doesn't have some foundational basics in place.” – Arum Lee Lansel (07:54)
• “Burnout is not a medical condition... it's about the organization making changes.” – Arum Lee Lansel (17:22)
• “If your leadership is not interested in making the workplace better, you're not going to get very far.” – Arum Lee Lansel (11:28)
• “Funders have more honest and real awareness of that reality.” – Arum Lee Lansel (24:31)
• “Employees experience of those things is strongly driven by their supervisor, their manager.” – Arum Lee Lansel (22:24)

Conclusion

This episode of What the Fundraising underscores the transformative potential of strategic HR practices in the nonprofit sector. By prioritizing employee well-being, fostering transparent relationships with funders, and empowering leaders and managers, nonprofits can create environments where both people and missions thrive.

Transcript

[Mallory Erickson]

GiveButter is a super easy to use, all in one nonprofit fundraising platform that empowers millions of change makers like you to raise more, pay less, and give better. Head to givebutter.com mallory to claim your free account today and get started in minutes.

[Arum Lee Lancel]

If your leadership is not interested in making the workplace better, you're not going to get very far. And so the that is something. But I will say that all it takes is just a general like, yeah, we care. We do want to have a great workplace for our employees. And I would think that that's a pretty low bar and there might be all kinds of other issues and maybe the leadership is part of the problem, but that can be resolved as long as there's the willingness to work towards it.

[Mallory Erickson]

Hey, my name is Mallory and I'm obsessed with helping leaders in the nonprofit space raise money and run their organizations differently. What the Fundraising is a space for real and raw conversations to both challenge and inspire you. Not too long ago, I was in your shoes, uncomfortable with fundraising and unsure of my place in this sector. It wasn't until I started to listen to other experts outside of the fundraising space that I was able to shift my mindset and ultimately shift the way I show up as a leader. This podcast is my way of blending professional and personal personal development so we, as a collective inside the nonprofit sector can feel good about the work we are doing. Join me every week as I interview some of the brightest minds in the personal and professional development space to help you fundamentally change the way you lead and fundraise. I hope you enjoy this episode, so let's dive in.

[Unknown Host]

Welcome everyone. I'm so excited to be here today with Arum Lee, Lancel Arun. Welcome to what the Fundraising.

[Arum Lee Lancel]

Thank you so much, Mallory. I'm really excited to be here. And first I have to say for the audience that my voice does not typically sound like this. I'm getting over a cold where I completely lost my voice and I'm slowly regaining it. So I sound weird to myself. But of course, those of you who have never heard me before, I hopefully just sound like a normal human.

[Unknown Host]

Well, you sound great and I'm glad you felt like you still wanted to have this conversation today. Why don't you start by just telling everybody a little bit about you and your work and what brings you to our conversation?

[Arum Lee Lancel]

Yes, I mean, I feel like my career journey has been very lucky to have been in very different industries and so that's a big part of why I do what I do now. So 20 years ago I was actually a fashion design major at Cornell. So back then, like, I have this whole creative side of me that is still there. And I thought I wanted to be a fashion designer. Then I figured out that that industry is just not for me. And I had this like naive notion as a young person that I want to help people and like help, you know, like better the world and those kinds of things. So anyway, I went on to get my master's in international development and I worked for a USAID contractor for several years. Then I had kids and it was really hard to be traveling to all of these post conflict countries during that time. After I had my two children, so I switched over. I got a job in philanthropy working at the Packard foundation in California. And I really love that. That was a very good experience for me. I worked on the organizational effectiveness team, which is a grant making program that specifically works with nonprofits to provide capacity building or organizational strengthening grants. And then after that I got recruited out by a venture capital firm, which was a total detour because I've always worked in the social sector, but I worked at a venture capital firm and then in the HR team, building out the HR strategy there. And that taught me a lot as well. But after a few years at in venture capital, I realized I really want to go back to the social sector. I want to go back focused on internal people making organizations better for the people who work there. And so now I'm an HR consultant just for small nonprofits. So there's a whole bunch of stuff that happened to me in those jobs that made me realize like, this is the thing that really for me, me is where I can make the most impact.

[Unknown Host]

Wow, thank you for sharing that story. And I love that you sort of come to this conversation with a variety of backgrounds and experiences. And we talked a little bit before scheduling the show of about Power Dynamics. And you have this interesting experience based on being on both sides. But also I think that venture capital experience as well gives you another lens, like a funder kind of experience and power dynamics. So let's just dive in because I'm really interested in hearing a little bit about how you see HR as a means to impact. I feel like I have spent my career in, you know, small to mid sized nonprofits and HR was always something that got added to my job description in one way or another, which really was like just kind of compliance, I think, like at the end of the day, right? Like when you're in a small to mid sized nonprofit, you sort of think of HR as like Compliance, like, what's going to not get me in trouble? Do I make this work? And so seeing some of your work and really thinking about it differently, I was like, oh, okay, like, I want to hear about this.

[Arum Lee Lancel]

Yes. I am trying to rebrand the word HR to mean something different in people's mind, because a lot of people come in with some preconceptions about HR is mostly about protecting the company or things like that. And really, it's about the most important asset in any organization, which is the people. I mean, the people are the one that are doing the work and making the impact. And so if you don't have a great environment for people to thrive, then you're not going to make as much of an impact in the nonprofit context. I just feel like investing in the workforce, the nonprofit workforce, is the best way to make sure that the programs are running effectively. That, you know, all those things that donors care about seeing on the programmatic side, like, all of that happens because you have people who are good at their job doing all of that work. And if you don't have have a great work environment for those people to thrive, then all of those programs and external things that you care about are going to be affected as well.

[Unknown Host]

Okay. So it's interesting, like, hearing you talk and even hearing words like thrive, I'm sort of thinking about where so many nonprofits are today or where fundraisers are at today. We know that burnout is, like, at record high levels. Folks are leaving their positions in droves. And so the path to a thriving environment, I think probably for so many feels really, really far away. But I'm curious, like, sort of how you think about what are some of the core, like, if somebody was going to do a very quick kind of internal audit of what is happening inside their organization, and maybe they haven't taken a step back to say, hey, maybe this is related to some of our cultural norms or the ways that we sort of think about hr. I think for me, I worked in a lot of toxic nonprofit environments, and if I'm honest, I think I just was like, this is how it is. Like, this is just the way it is. And so I don't even know that I ever really stepped back and felt a whole lot of agency in being able to change that through some cultural norms. So how would you invite some of those folks to start to get curious around this?

[Arum Lee Lancel]

Yeah, one thing that I find with smaller nonprofits is that I really want to go in and be as practical as possible. And this is all based on my Experience that we can talk about next, about working on the funder side versus on the grantee side. But basically, I feel that nonprofits already have so many things that they're juggling. And it's like every day you're in survival mode, sometimes it's constant hustle. And so I don't want this like, oh, we have to create a thriving environment to be yet another burden, yet another thing to add to an already overloaded list of priorities for an executive director. Right. And so that's why for myself, like, when I'm working with a small nonprofit, I created this framework that's really about, like, let's help you create a roadmap and let's focus first on the really, like, things that are important just to help you stabilize. So those are just like compliance basics. Like, hey, do you have your employee handbook in place and are you classifying employees correctly? And some of that might seem boring, but to an organization that, especially from the ED's perspective, you know, if they're thinking about, we need HR help and they don't have some of those basic compliance things in place, like, you just have to like, help get all of those things stabilized before you can start adding on to talk about culture change and some of the things that will actually help you get to that thriving environment. Like, you can't get there overnight and you can't ignore if the organization doesn't have some, like, foundational basics in place. And so that's like the bottom level of this thrive model where it's, you know, let's look at kind of stabilizing payroll and your org structure and record keeping, stuff like that. And then the next level after that is support. So what can we do to have processes that really, actually enable high performance from the team? So that's things like performance reviews and compensation plans and having manager training and those kinds of areas that will allow the team to do their best work. And then after that, the top level is sustain. So what can we do to make sure that over the long run there is going to be that culture change, that you're going to have better employee engagement, that you're thinking about succession planning and creating a really good feedback culture? But the reason that it's stacked that way is because of what you were saying, that it can be overwhelming or it can be to an individual in an organization. Like, I don't understand how we've ever going to get there when we have all of these kinds of problems. And so this is a way to like, think about it in priority order and kind of take it step by step and build onto things rather than immediately going into organization and saying, oh, you know, you have a culture problem, like, we need to do culture change. Like, yes. And there's like all these other things that contribute to that culture too.

[Unknown Host]

Okay, that's really interesting to think about. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but one of the assumptions I'm making in hearing you talk about all of this is that there, this has to really come from the leader, like of the organization to be taking an approach like this. And so there has to be a certain sort of level of awareness and self reflection and openness to doing differently, I guess, in your leadership role in order to start to make these changes. Like there isn't a whole lot that somebody else inside the organization can necessarily do. Is that right?

[Arum Lee Lancel]

Yeah, yeah. I would say that is a caveat to this, is that if your leadership is not interested in making the workplace better, you're not going to get very far. And so that is something. But I will say that all it takes is just a general like, yeah, we care. We do want to have a great workplace for our employees. And I would think that that's a pretty low bar and there might be all kinds of other issues and maybe the leadership is part of the problem, but that can be resolved as long as there's the willingness to work towards it.

[Mallory Erickson]

GiveButter is a super easy to use all one nonprofit fundraising platform that empowers millions of change makers like you to raise more, pay less and give better. Nonprofits use GiveButter to bring together multiple categories of tools including mobile friendly donation forms, fundraising campaigns, events, auctions, email marketing, a built in CRM, and so much more. And the best part, thanks to 100% transparent tip or fee model, give Butter's core fundraising features are free no matter how many contacts you have. Head to givebutter.com mallory to sign up for your free account today and get started in minutes.

[Unknown Host]

Okay, it's interesting. I had this conversation, a different podcast conversation yesterday and we're talking about volunteer engagement and we are talking about the ways the guests shared that as the volunteer engagement coordinator they had sort of often been mistreated by fundraisers and she was explaining some sort of dynamics and types of things she had experienced. And one of the things that I felt myself sort of witnessing in that moment was like, ooh, this is like one completely like acknowledging and validating her experience. And I was so grateful that she shared it with me and I had some moments of like, oh, like I bet I did some of these things as a fundraiser. And it was this reminder of the way in which we sort of like pass stress or we pass right, like that. There's so many of the leaders that we want to take a hard look at how these things are going are also feeling really undervalued and mistreated, whether it's from the board or the funders. And so there's like this trickle down chronic stress or trickle down pressure or that we makes it seem challenging to sort of like get out in front of or be like, I'm going to be the person that's going to sort of stop this or process this. I have all these challenges with my board, but I'm not going to actually let that impact, like, define the culture of my organization or I'm dealing with some funders who are trying to exert power on us in ways that are inappropriate, that we don't want to move for. But I'm not going to let that actually sort of guide who we are and who we become as an organization or who we stay as an organization. How do you like thinking about that leader? Really sitting at the intersection of multiple cultures, right? Their organizational culture, but also their funder relationships. Like, what are some suggestions you have for how they navigate that space?

[Arum Lee Lancel]

You're talking about because of the different dynamics that they have to face with the board and then with the staff and with other people. I think that a lot of times that there's just so much that you're juggling as a leader and it's really hard to prioritize what's going to be the most important. But when it comes to taking care of your staff, then it really has to come down to making sure that people feel supported and have what they need. And this is when I was saying earlier about this whole thing of like HR as a means to impact. If you're leading an organization where not only you yourself are feeling so burned out and overwhelmed and then that's trickling down to the rest of the team, how are you then expected to then make this big impact in the world and fulfill your mission and all of that? You can't, you can't. If, if not only yourself, but then the rest of your team is so burned out. And so then I think it really is starting with the basics. And it kind of brings me back to that thrive model. It's like having a roadmap for how you're going to, over time, get to a more sustainable workplace where people have more Reasonable workloads, including the leader themselves, and also have tools to work with their board on, you know, communication tactics for how to make sure that their needs are being heard by the board as well, and the board having that conversation. Those are all things that, again, like, you can't do it overnight, but if you have a roadmap for what you need to do and how you're going to get there, I think that can bring some immediate relief from the overwhelmingness of it and the stress of it to just know, like, okay, we have a plan for how we're going to get to a reduced level of burnout and that. The other thing I wanted to say is that I recently heard a speaker talking about how burnout is not a medical condition, which is not at all to diminish the difficulty that it places on an individual. It's just to say that when you consider it a medical condition, it places the burden on the individual to get better, to get healthy, rather than on the organization to create an environment where that burnout doesn't happen. Right. Because the burnout is happening not because of the individual. It's because of the environment that they're in. And so that's the reason I bring that up, is to say that it really is about the organization making changes and their processes and the ways that they have supports available for employees that's going to solve that burnout, not just the individual person doing all they can to protect their time and those kinds of things.

[Unknown Host]

Yeah, that's interesting. We could have a whole other conversation about that, about the burnout piece, because that's something I've been exploring with a lot of different sort of scientists in that. In that area. But one of the things that you're saying that is really kind of resonating with me is also, or maybe I'm reading this between the lines, is that in many ways, hr, we don't think about it this way, but over the years, I think I found this. Was that hr, while it might, you know, to your point earlier, not seem like the shiny fun object, it in many ways, what. But the policies or the practices that you implement in that sphere help really guide. They really safeguard things inside the organization from needing to depend on chance or luck or how much you believe somebody is willing to sacrifice for something. I was talking to a friend recently, and in my business, I think about this in terms of my contract. I was talking to a friend recently around. They were deciding whether or not to sort of move forward with a contract for their business, and he was Saying like, I'm just not sure that I 100% trust the sort of other party to do what they're, they're promising in this contract arrangement. And I said to him, I was like, this is what your contract is for. Like that you shouldn't be wondering if the other person is going to do the thing. It's like that is exciting explicitly in the contract. And if they don't do it, then they are, then they're violating the contract and then you don't have to do your side of it and then you have terms for how you phase out of that. But I think we think about, there are so many things earlier in my career that I thought about as like just a standard practice or to your, or to what I said before kind of compliance. Right, okay, I'm hiring somebody and I need to just like get them to sign this contract and then that allows me to pay them. And I didn't think about it as like, this is a moment for us to really sort of like talk about culture and have some of those pieces inside the contract around our expectations, around cooperation and, and just like clarity, you know, like clarity is so kind. And I think sometimes when we don't, when we just sort of attach HR to all these other things we're trying to do, we don't actually use it as a process to get really clear and intentional.

[Arum Lee Lancel]

Yes. So I absolutely want to add on to that because I think that there are a lot of things that people talk about in the nonprofit space that are addressing burnout. So things like wellness programs or just sabbaticals, those are all important. I don't want to down talk any of those things, but to me those things are band aids. They're just temporary solutions and maybe they will help that individual for some short period of time. But if you don't have structural change in the organization, it's not going to sustain. And that's why I'm talking about all of those like, like HRE type things like performance review process, you know, having like learning and development plans in place, having a really sensible org chart and job descriptions. Like those things don't sound as sexy, I suppose as like a yoga retreat or something like that. But those are the things that are going to create in an organization structures to make sure that for the long run people are being supported. And if they're not, that there are mechanisms for how that will be known. You know, if you have like some feedback mechanisms or a staff survey every year or something like that, like those are all Processes that you can set up to make sure that you are kind of going towards this better culture for the long run.

[Unknown Host]

Yeah. You know, it's interesting, sort of what you're saying about burnout. I really agree with those last points. You know, in my book, I talk about these five elements of fundraising that really lead to. Have been scientifically proven to lead to burnout that we don't talk about. We talk about overwork, work. Right. We're like, oh, working nights and weekends, and I'm so burnt out. But actually, there's all these elements, and these apply to more than just fundraising. But I, you know, particularly try to highlight things for fundraisers. But the things are, you know, pressure, uncertainty, power dynamics, rejection, isolation, all of those. Other than rejection, because that's a part. We just need tools to be able to manage that internally, because that is a part of the. The puzzle. But all of those things have cultural. Like. Have cultural elements to how you think about running your organization. Right. Like, how are you applying pressure to your team members? What is that? Your culture around pressure? What about uncertainty? That piece around performance reviews? Right. Like, that's a lot more clarity. It takes a lot of the. Like, how am I doing? You know, kind of floating out here in the abyss. What are your cultural pieces that bring people together instead of feeling so isolated? Like, there's so much of what you're talking about that does. Is scientifically proven to reduce chronic stress.

[Arum Lee Lancel]

Yes. And by the way, a lot of those things, the employees experience of those things is strongly driven by their supervisor, their manager. So if you don't. So that's one of the things I see across the board with just about every organization I work with is that there is a lack of manager support and training and expectation setting around what they need to do to create that kind of environment for their teams. Right. And so, like, all of those things that you mention can be, like, made or broken by a really good manager. And so that's something that I think is not given enough attention in all of these talks about burnout and the nonprofit workforce is how important it is to provide better support for people who are. For leaders and for anyone who's supervising team members.

[Unknown Host]

Yes, absolutely. Okay. I know we're getting close to time, but can I ask you one more question from the kind of perspective of a funder? Yeah. So if you. I mean, I know when we were chatting before, we were sort of talking about, like, the dynamics. I'm thinking about power dynamics in particular right now. Right. And the role that that can play in burnout, but also culture and all of those things. And I'm wondering if you were. If there was an organization that you were working with who, you know, in working with you and hearing all of this was saying, okay, wow. I think actually some of the ways in which we've engaged with funders in the past have defined some of our cultural norms that we need to renegotiate those with a funder in order to really ensure that we're protecting our staff and sort of, you know, building this, the culture that we really want here. What would be some recommendations you might have for conversations for how nonprofits can have conversations with funders about their efforts to improve their sort of organization's like, HR culture, all these things that might, this is a whole other conversation be thought of as non indirect to their program impact.

[Arum Lee Lancel]

Yes. So one thing is that it does require some vulnerability to be willing to be honest about some of the challenges that are happening inside the organization. I know that's really hard to do, and it should not be on the nonprofit to have to bring that vulnerability because of the power dynamics, but that's just how it is. And so one of the things I wanted to say is that a big reason why I don't work in philanthropy now and I work directly with small nonprofits is because I, when I was working as a funder, I constantly saw this, like, juxtaposition between, you know, at the foundation, when you're the funder, everyone wants to talk to you. You're like the smartest and funniest person in the room all the time. And it's like a drug. Like, even though you're aware that's happening, it can get to your head. And I felt like that reality was so, so different than I'm also on the board of two small nonprofits, like small and scrappy, and like, you know, constantly having to fundraise to like, make sure they can pay for all their team members and all of that. And so, like, that reality of those small nonprofits that are basically like, fighting for survival every day compared to the reality of being in the funder's shoes where everybody loves you and you don't have to worry about money and all of that, it brought me to this realization that I think having, like, space to, like, breathe and innovate is a privilege that is exploited by people who have the wealth and denied to those without. And so that. So all that, to come back to your question is to say that I think it's really important that funders have more Honest and real awareness of that reality. Like almost being forced to experience with the nonprofit the reality that they are in, rather than always coming with the shiny exterior that you want, of course you want to put your best foot forward. You don't want to be showing all of the skeletons in the closet and all the like, employee conflicts and like difficult cultural things that are going on. But if the funder has no idea that you need this kind of support, then they don't even have the opportunity to provide funding so that the organization can work on some of those internal matters. So that's why I said it's going to. It does take some level of vulnerability. But for the funders that you trust, that you already have some established relationships with, to be able to peel back that curtain and to really show some of the messiness inside, but show it in a way that's saying we want to make more impact, we want to do more good in the world. And we know that's what you care about funding. But in order to do that, we have to be able to take care of ourselves. Otherwise the work can't get done.

[Unknown Host]

I'm so glad that we had that opportunity for you to share that with everybody. I think that's such an important point. And you know folks who are listening to this, definitely a scary and hard thing to do, even with organizations where or funders where you have a strong relationship but so necessary. So thank you for sharing that. And why don't we just wrap up with you telling everybody where they can go to connect with you and learn more from you and potentially work with you.

[Arum Lee Lancel]

Yes. So first you can find me on LinkedIn. I think I'm the only person with my name, which is a nice thing of having a unique name. So Arum Lee Lancel, but also my website which is www.allin a l l I n the number 4 and then.

[Unknown Host]

Impact.Com thank you so much for joining me today.

[Arum Lee Lancel]

Thank you for having me. This has been really fun.

[Mallory Erickson]

I hope today's episode inspired or challenged you to think differently. For additional takeaways, tips, show notes, and more about our amazing guest and sponsors, head on over to Mallorykson.com podcast and if you didn't know, hosting this podcast isn't the only thing I do every day. I coach, guide and help fundraisers and leaders just like you. Inside of my program, the Power Partners Formula Collective. Inside the program, I share my methods, tools and experiences that have helped me fundraise millions of dollars and feel good about myself. In the process to learn more about how I can help you, visit MalloryErickson.com PowerPartners Last but not least, if you enjoyed this episode, I'd love to encourage you to share it with a friend you know would benefit or leave a review. I'm so grateful for all of you and the good, hard work you're doing to make our world a better place. I can't wait to see you in the next episode. Fundraising Date it doesn't have to feel like a solo battle. My book what the Fundraising Embracing and Enabling the People behind the Purpose offers practical strategies and frameworks to help you navigate the challenges of fundraising with ease and impact. And with our free discussion guide, you can deepen learning and collaboration with your team or book club ready to transform the way you Fundraise? Head to MalloryErickson.combook to order your copy today anywhere books are sold, and you can grab the guide there too.