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What the Fundraising
227: Fundraising with Integrity: Why Success is More Than Just Dollars Raised with Esther Saehyun Lee
00:38:16
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- [00:04]
Mallory
GiveButter is a super easy to use, all in one nonprofit fundraising platform that empowers millions of change makers like you to raise more, pay less, and give better. Head to givebutter.com mallory to claim your free account today and get started in minutes.
- [00:25]
Esther Se Hyun Lee
We all are complicit in perpetuating the nonprofit industrial complex. Like you, me, every fundraiser, every nonprofit folk like this sector in this complex does perpetuate harm. And we are all complicit in that. And that's a deeply uncomfortable truth to like sit in, if I'm honest. But I think that we need to sit in that to be able to have that tension to drive us to think about what needs to be different.
- [00:56]
Mallory
Hey, myself, My name is Mallory and I'm obsessed with helping leaders in the nonprofit space raise money and run their organizations differently. What the Fundraising is a space for real and raw conversations to both challenge and inspire you. Not too long ago, I was in your shoes, uncomfortable with fundraising and unsure of my place in this sector. It wasn't until I started to listen to other experts outside of the fundraising space that I was able to shift my mindset and ultimately shift the way I show up as a leader. This podcast is much my way of blending professional and personal development so we as a collective inside the nonprofit sector can feel good about the work we are doing. Join me every week as I interview some of the brightest minds in the personal and professional development space to help you fundamentally change the way you lead and fundraise. I hope you enjoy this episode, so let's dive in.
- [01:50]
Welcome everyone. I am so excited to be here today with Esther. Se Hyun Lee. Esther, welcome to what the fundraising.
- [01:58]
Esther Se Hyun Lee
Yay. I'm so excited to be here and see you and meet you. It's just so nice to like get to know each other before. Before we jump into conversation.
- [02:08]
Mallory
Yeah. I have been loving chatting with you and I'm so excited for this conversation. Why don't we start with you just telling everyone a little bit about you, what brings you to your work and our conversation today and then we'll. We'll dive in.
- [02:20]
Esther Se Hyun Lee
Yeah. So my name's Esther Se Hyun Lee. My pronouns are she, her. I'm a community centric fundraiser and the principal and founder of Elevate Philanthropy Consulting, where I support small nonprofits with community centric fundraising practices and trying to raise revenue and connect with their community in a way that's grounded in equity and justice. I'm also very passionate about creating spaces of support and connection for people of color. So I'm part of the Asian Fundraisers in Canada Collective Planning Committee. And I'm also a board advisor for AFP GTC with the Affinity Group program. And really, I'm just committed to making sure that all people of color in this sector understand how brilliant they are and make sure that they feel the power that we bring to the sector, because I think we bring a lot.
- [03:10]
Mallory
So there's so many areas of your work that we could dig into and that I'm excited to continue. Multiple conversations around. When we were chatting a little bit before we hit record, we started to talk about this sort of balance or reality in the sector of where our sort of individual power lies and the relationship between that and sort of collective and systemic responsibility. And I remember one time when I was reading your LinkedIn profile or something, you had posted sort of about culture. And I think about the culture inside of organizations, and that is not my area of expertise. Like, my background in training is really in individual methodologies that help us, you know, express, find ground into our power and what is available to us. And I'm interested in sort of talking today about the intersection of that, who we are as individuals and how those collectively come together to create culture and. And systemically, both on a big level, but also inside organizations. Like, what does it take to create healthy fundraising culture?
- [04:25]
Esther Se Hyun Lee
That's a great question. And honestly, I always joke about this because a lot of nonprofits will hire me for fundraising because it's easy to budget and justify the cost of a fundraiser. But once I get into the work, I kind of realize what they're asking for is a shift in culture, shift in how they think about fundraising, shift in thinking about how they engage with community. And I'm like, I always get surprised by how much fundraisers have the power to do that. So first thing I'll say is my brain is actually extremely strategic, which makes it funny to talk about culture. I've had to investigate culture because my coach at Nika Allen said culture eats strategy for breakfast. And as a woman of color, like, sometimes you try and equip yourself with the strategies and the methodologies and the data to be like, how am I going to, like, fix this? Or I'm going to maneuver my way, or I'm going to figure out, like, how to get this, like, deficit that's on me and, like, try and, like, figure it out and thrive. And, you know, the truth of it is it's a cultural issue that we're talking about. And, like, strategy won't get you there. And when I think about culture, specifically the non profit sector. I think the real issue is that we're talking about who is actually perceived to be powerful and who is able to embrace that power and why the community centric fundraising for me is so powerful is it's that conversation about power right from the beginning. Like this whole sector is founded on, we have power. You don't. Let me give you some in the form of a grant or maybe like resources or maybe my old clothing that I don't want anymore. Like there's so many ways the currency of power is exchanged. But for me, CC App is kind of that framework and of culture that goes, let's have this conversation about power and nonprofit sector openly. Let's have it transparently so that we can really think and imagine like a different way of taking care of each other. I think the issue that I find in organizations is whether we want to admit it or not, everybody participates in co creating the culture. But I think what leadership, like toxic leadership can do is make everyone think that they don't do that. Make everyone think that they have no control over it. Make everyone think that they're just going to submit to it or be subservient to it. And that I think is absolutely false. Like we all have a way to shift it in small and large actions.
- [06:53]
Mallory
Okay, so tell me more about that. What are some of the ways that you think we influence culture despite perhaps the official paperwork that is designed to tell us here is what the culture is?
- [07:08]
Esther Se Hyun Lee
I think it's just in the ways that we bring ourselves to the work. Like the authenticity of ourselves to the work. Like for me, how I think about power is not coming from title or status. It's more like when we talk about nonprofit sector and I'm specifically talking about fundraising and mobilizing resources, everyone has the ability to do that. Like even if it's not in your title at your organization. Maybe you like work at a food, volunteer at a food bank, or maybe you like make holiday packages. Like everybody has the power to do that. So I think when I talk about everybody participating in the culture, it's how you relate to each other, how you build community with each other, how do you speak to each other with respect and like how do you honor everybody's decision? And I think that's something that we all have a responsibility to do, no matter what level or status you have.
- [08:01]
Mallory
Okay, this is. I'm gonna try to talk this through kind of on the fly and get a question out that makes some sense. But I'm curious, like I sit so often, I'm a white woman. I recognize the privilege and the power that that affords me in this sector. And one of the fears that I've often had is, is trying to. Or I've, or this sort of like gnawing in the back of my mind when I've been doing coaching work with women of color in particular around you know, helping them find their agency and power in a scenario. But there's a part of me in the background that sometimes worries like if they're. The environment they're in is really toxic. Am I, is this situation setting them up to, to experience something traumatic? Right. Like I don't know how their boss is going to act on the other end. I don't know how they're going to be treated when they sort of claim that space and not that like they obviously are taking responsibility for their own actions and their own. But I feel this sort of constant like chicken in the egg in terms of like how do we accept and honor our individual power and autonomy and also ensure that like positional leaders are held responsible for the environments in which their fundraisers and particularly fundraisers of color are working. And how do we bred that needle for those fundraisers too so that you know, the experiences that they're having, they don't feel like are all their fault, but they also don't feel totally disempowered to change them.
- [09:47]
Esther Se Hyun Lee
Yeah, this is a big question. Like it's, we're talking about accountability of like toxic behavior and leadership too. Right? Which is, it's whole other. Like it's so specific and contextual and you know, for women of color, like I'll speak specifically to women of color. Like the risk we carry within institutions and within organizations and the deficit that we have placed on us, that's a reality. And it's not a matter of like, you know, give yourself a little more self esteem or like just be confident or like ask yourself for that. Like there's real issues that hand that you're going to have to navigate. The only thing I would say is you have to be in community. The first thing I would say is do not gaslight yourself out of that experience. Like this is a lived reality. And one of the most tricky things about this is when you don't see the oppression at play because it's, it's made to be invisible. Right. Like as an Asian woman, the conversation I'll have a lot is you're a great worker, but you're not leadership material. Like I love because it's kind of this idea of like, Asian women are really good at their work and quiet and humble and like, will always take care of each other, but they're not perceived as someone that can be defiant and strong and bold and risk taking and visionary, which is all the qualities in Western society for a leader. Right. This kind of perception is something that we're constantly working. Like, I'm constantly working back against and fighting against. So it's kind of like this tension of like understanding and accepting that this is the reality of it. Instead of internalizing and saying, like, I just need to be a little bit more bold, I need to be a little bit more. It's like, no, they're not going to perceive you that way. Like, you have to get used to it. This is the question that I was kind of mulling over in the article. You're not. That I wrote. You're not feeling imposter syndrome. You are an imposter. Because for me, the biggest. The way that we perpetuate that harm, the most severe ways that hurts us is when we internalize it and think that it is like we own it as an individual failing rather than a systemic one. And that differentiation is something that we all have to come at as individuals. Like, I can't tell you what your experience is at a workplace. I can only tell you what my reflection back to you is. That's why I think it's critical for women of color to be in communities of women of color who are all thinking and feeling and sharing this and reflecting it back to each other. We have to be grounded with each other.
- [12:09]
Mallory
Okay. There's so much there that I. That I appreciate and I think that piece around not internalizing the problem as a self.
- [12:26]
Esther Se Hyun Lee
Individual.
- [12:27]
Mallory
Individual. Yeah. Failing is so important. And how do you find people are able to see that systemic is part of the power, the individual power that comes through this type of work, that you start to see the system for what it is. You start to release some of the. That internalized personal failing and then recognize in that situation, with the systemic failures around you, here's where your personal agency and power comes into play.
- [12:58]
Esther Se Hyun Lee
Yeah. I think you have to have that critical distance to examine the frameworks that our world is founded on, our countries are founded on, our. The sector is founded on. Right. Like none of this is new. I think when you really understand, like when you really understand the underpinnings of power, like, I mean institutionalized power. So like, I'm thinking governments, I'm thinking nonprofit sector. I'm thinking like just General wealth. Like, anywhere there's a concentration of, like, unbridled greed and power. And you really look at the underpinnings of it and you have a historical grounding in it. You understand that these were all founded to like, keep the power and money to a few and exclude the many. Right. When you understand that and you start to be around people who also see the world as founded on these frameworks and you're constantly in community and conversation with them, I think that just gets your muscle going to like, discern it. Like, it's really. But this is the part where community comes in. Right. Like, I'm not just sitting here mulling over to myself, like, why the world is the way it is. Like, I'm constantly learning from older activists and me, younger activists than me. Like, I'm always trying to be in relationship with them and learn from them and really place myself in a position of like, what is to be gained from history? What is to be gained from how the new generation looks at this work? Like, I think that's the best thing you can do to understand these systems.
- [14:22]
Mallory
Yeah. Okay. It's so interesting, like, you're opening my brain up to sort of a non linear, like, thinking around this that I've been trying so hard to. I interviewed a therapist at the beginning of the year about a similar, like, sort of moment of like, in therapy, we don't want the person to blame themselves for something, but we want them to feel empowered to change it and sort of like how you hold that nuance. Right. And it's so interesting, I feel like coming out of that conversation and since then I've been grappling a lot with sort of this line. But what you're talking about that is sort of shifting my whole thinking is that that's a totally different conversation, even in your head and in community around. Because in that sense, when I was talking to a therapist, it was still both on the individual level. Right. It was like you were trying to release blame just individually.
- [15:15]
Esther Se Hyun Lee
Yeah.
- [15:16]
Mallory
And then feel empowered just individually. And so it felt like this conflict, whereas bringing in that systemic and critical lens to say, no, no, what we're doing is we're seeing, seeing the full problem. And in doing that, that does release that individual blame and responsibility because I see what's actually at play here. And then from that lens can find the individual way in which I want to work against, work within, work tangentially to the system.
- [15:49]
Esther Se Hyun Lee
Yeah. I mean, I come from women's shelter, so I oversaw fundraising, advocacy and communications as well as A volunteer program. But when we were doing that work, that was constantly the messaging. Shelters are a band aid solution to the systemic issue of gender based violence. People like women and non binary folks that are experiencing gender based violence. Shelter is a temporary solution. We need to address the systemic of it. So for example, like the lack of money. So like when you're leaving, financial abuse is often one of it. Like they need money, they need support, it's beyond shelter. They need housing, they need furniture, they need therapy, they need all of these holistic wraparound supports to support. Like it's not just the shelter. That's a band aid solution. And that's the thing that we were always trying to connect with our audience was do not look at this in a myopic way. Like this is a larger issue at hand that we need to address. Like it's a systemic issue that we're seeing the problems of and we're trying to address one by one. But what we need to do at the same time is actually probe deeper and think critically about why that, what are the systems that have been creating this environment. People that are experiencing gender based violence are constantly put, are made to have such a more difficult time than they need to to just get back on their feet or like get the supports that they need for themselves and their family.
- [17:14]
Mallory
GiveButter is a super easy to use, all in one nonprofit fundraising platform platform that empowers millions of change makers like you to raise more, pay less and give better. Nonprofits use GiveButter to bring together multiple categories of tools including mobile friendly donation forms, fundraising campaigns, events, auctions, email marketing, a built in CRM, and so much more. And the best part, thanks to a 100% transparent tip or fee model, GiveButter's core fundraising features are free no matter how many contacts you have. Head to givebutter.com backslash mallory to sign up for your free account today and get started in minutes.
- [17:58]
Okay, so this is actually like a great segue using that example. Because what I hear in that example also is like a lot of nuance or opening up the complicated problem to your donors, right? Not just saying, hey, if you give us $25, we solve this thing.
- [18:14]
Esther Se Hyun Lee
We got bed sheets for the new bed, we got the clothing, which is easy to sell. It's easy to sell. Yeah, exactly.
- [18:21]
Mallory
So we were talking a little bit before we hit record around like the some of the kind of like hypocrisy that we often see in the sector of we are here to be change makers. We are here because we Are we want the status quo to change in so many ways and yet we uphold it in many of our processes and practices because it makes us feel safer. And it feels so scary to make, to actually change. Right. It's like we want change, but it is scary to feel change. And so it holds us back from taking bolder steps forward or putting out what we believe to be riskier communications because it's not as easy to sell as the bed sheets. So talk to me about that like how.
- [19:08]
Esther Se Hyun Lee
Yeah, yeah, I'll tell you right now. The shelter I worked at was the first shelter to offer. It was the first pet friendly shelter because don't know if people know this, but pets are often used as a measure of control. So you can't leave because then I'm going to keep the pet or I'm going to hurt the pet or I'm going to withhold pet like. So we were the first shelter in consultation with survivors to create this space. Let me tell you, I bring this up because it's really easy to fundraise when animals like when I talked about the animals and I talked and I could put a pet mixture, it was a lot easier than saying, hey, gender based violence is a systemic issue that address like it was like I sometimes I could feel like if I just talked about pets, I think my job would be a little easier, to be honest. I've had those moments. But back to that what we were talking about earlier, this is what I've really been top of mind. So I'm glad you're giving me the opportunity to really discuss. This is I really feel it's this crisis of imagination in the nonprofit sector where it's like we all are complicit in perpetuating the nonprofit industrial complex. Like you, me, every fundraiser, every nonprofit folk like this sector in this complex perpetuate harm and we are all complicit in that. And that's a deeply uncomfortable truth to like sit in if I'm honest. But I think that we need to sit in that to be able to have that tension to drive us to think about what needs to be different. And I think with the non profit complex, what I was nonprofit sector, what I was telling you before is I truly think like our greatest output and resources, our imagination. Like I can't think of another sector that is willing to be as courageous and creative and innovative with so few resources in comparison to like let's say Silicon Valley, like that is willing to do so much on so little. Like you give a nonprofit 100 bucks, they're going to figure out the best way to use that hundred bucks to like serve their community, right? But it's so funny to me that we kind of on some base level understand that that's our greatest output, but then we don't actually work to cultivate that resource and outfit and actually imagine, like, how do we do this work differently? How do we do it in a way that really honors everyone's power and autonomy? Like ccf, the movement being like, so radical. It's a strange thing to think about. It's like, hey, let's think about the community. And everyone's like, oh my God, like, how dare you? Like, that's so weird. And it's like, is it really that? Like, the thing I always say is I don't want to be the most radical person in the room. And for me, when I say mccf and that's radical, like, I'm like, I'm probably not, I shouldn't be in this room. But I really do think about, like, what is the disconnect for people like ourselves, people in this sector, that we're so creative and so imaginative, but we're not actually willing to apply that imagination to our fundraising practices or to our program development or to our strategic plan. Like, we're willing to just go back to what we know and what is safe and what we know is going to like, bring in the money, get the program metrics we need to get that grant report out. Like, how do we actually give ourselves the space and space, time, distance to really cultivate it? I think about that for myself as well, for myself in my business. Like, I'm constantly trying to think about, like, what do I need or what systems do I need in place to really let myself sit in that. Like, we always talk about mission and vision. That's just like, you know, every non profit will have that. But like, how often do you actually sit in that vision and think about, like, what that would look like for you to achieve it? Like, what are the concrete steps? Like, what I think even when I see nonprofit orgs like go through their like standard three year, every three to five year strategic plan and it's like something that the ED has to get done or the board has to get done and then they just file it away and it collects dust and it never goes anywhere. I think about all these practices we have and I go, like, what needs to be different for us to actually achieve what we set out to do?
- [23:11]
Mallory
Well, you know what's interesting is that I'm sort Of like, processing live here is to me, as I'm listening to you talk, I'm thinking back to what you were saying a few minutes ago around seeing the system for what it is. And so a lot of what you're talking about, that these beliefs that we hold and these practices that we've adopted, not just in their, like, oppressive history, but in the scarcity mindset that that oppressive history has, like, created for the sector. Right. This sort of, like the. The beliefs about scarcity, of time, of resources, of power, of all of these things. Those adopted beliefs, individually and collectively, I think hold us back from being able to do a lot of that visioning even in our own brains. Like, when I started my kind of leadership journey in nonprofits, yeah, I was often in managing director roles. I was in sort of second in, you know, person to support the visionary ed or the visionary board chair, and in those roles. And I was still very much in scarcity mindset. And so when you're an operator in scarcity mindset, right. You're doing exactly what you're talking about. You're figuring out how do you make $100 go as far as possible.
- [24:32]
Esther Se Hyun Lee
Yeah.
- [24:33]
Mallory
And that orientation to change is not that creative, actually counter to what we need to do. Exactly. It's creative in one sense, right? It's creative and in one sense, like, to your point that we can do so much more with $100 than any company in Silicon Valley. But it's creative in the wrong way. It's creative with the wrong goal in mind. Because the goal becomes, how much can you do with $100 versus how do you change this thing, really? And what do you need to do it? Right. And so it's like, there's this piece here of, like, and I started my own business, you know, really, after my own experience with executive coach training and having. And so a huge mindset shift and orientation shift and work on my own scarcity mindset. And it's been so interesting because if you had asked me 10 years ago could I ever be a visionary leader, I would have said no. I would have been like, that's not my skill set. I'm an operator. I, you know, manage all the things. Right?
- [25:33]
Esther Se Hyun Lee
Yeah.
- [25:34]
Mallory
I don't have that brain. I'm not that person. I don't know how to dream big that way. But once I got rid of those, like, beliefs and that, like, fundamental underpinning, like, yeah, I do know how to dream big and I do know how to vision things, and I do know how to do all of that. But I didn't even think I had that skill. And so it's just. So when I. I don't know that I don't know what is coming up for you as I'm saying this, but that was just.
- [26:02]
Esther Se Hyun Lee
Yeah. I find it interesting that you say it's a skill because I think we all have the capacity to think like what we would want changed in this world. Right. And I think fundraising is just one way of building that. But there's millions of ways to do that. And even outside of this sector, but like that's kind of gets kicked out of us pretty young too. Like that imagination and like especially in a capitalist world where it's all individualism and extraction. Like you're not coming from a place of abundance. Right?
- [26:29]
Mallory
Totally.
- [26:30]
Esther Se Hyun Lee
So it's kind of like you have to really deprogram from this understanding that like if I get something someone else will won't or I have to take it for myself or I won't get any or that's really hard to unlearn.
- [26:46]
Mallory
Yeah. And I would say like, I don't think it's a skill anymore, but I did. Right. Like in that like 10 years ago I was like, oh, this is a skill I don't have. And now I realize it was just a part of my brain that wasn't allowed to be unlocked sort of. But based on these other things and yes, I think, you know, it's also of course really important to recognize like the scarcity mindset is. There is this sector wide scarcity mindset that intersects with people's personal reality around scarcity in completely different ways. And then this is not to under like recognize or appreciate the true scarcity that people experience in their daily lives, many of which are inside, working inside the sector. Right?
- [27:37]
Esther Se Hyun Lee
Yeah.
- [27:37]
Mallory
And so for me this is like the layer on top of that that further hinders our ability to potentially see solutions even to material scarcity. Because we've been told by society, by capitalism. Exactly. To your point, that like this is a zero sum game that somebody always has to win, that if you get this, somebody else doesn't. And I mean that's where I think like decolonization, like learning and practices are so critical because what they start to open your mind to, even honestly, as I started that learning journey, for me, I half the time I don't even get it and I'm like. But I can feel my brain opening, right. I can feel this like binary way that I've always thought about something being challenged, being like, wait, I think there's a vision here that I've never, ever, ever considered. And I totally see how it works. And there's a part of me that wants to know exactly how it would work, because we want something certainty and control and all these things. And so. But what I'm starting to see and believe is that there's a way I have never imagined for society to be that is rooted in the things I deeply value. And what does the first step look like to start to open up that possibility for all of us?
- [28:56]
Esther Se Hyun Lee
Well, it's funny. It's not just told by systems like, we're really rewarded for operating in scarcity, especially in nonprofit, especially as fundraisers. It was one of the first reflections I had when I started leadership and I was managing a team. It was like scarcity, when you have a revenue goal that you need to hit and you need to get there, like, no matter what that drives you, it is a powerful driver and it is effective. And the reality is, in this context, in this capitalist healthcare, we will get rewarded for it. It's a very effective way to fundraise. It's one of the tactics used. We will go under if, like Hail Mary campaigns, like, we will go under if you don't save appeals to our human psychology so much. But that's the question we have to shift to, is, even if I'm rewarded for it, even if it's effective, is this actually enacting the change that I want to see? Is this the type of fundraising I want to do? Is this the type of organizational culture that we want to establish? Is this how we want to serve the people that require our services, like the metrics we've created? This is kind of the question I have with the nonprofit industrial complex when it's underpinned by white supremacy and capitalism and individualism and extraction. We have to start questioning if, like, the industry standards or the practices that we've just become accustomed to and is, like, taught in every fundraising school and exam and conference is right, like, are we able to give ourselves the space to challenge it? And I think when you're in scarcity, you never have time. That's the thing about it. So you don't get time to question it, you don't get time to challenge it. And thus we don't really ever get a chance to grow. And I think that's what I'm excited about. As for ccf, as a newer fundraiser, like, new generation of fundraisers, and I see the generation after me too. I just think we're questioning more about why Is it the way we do this? And, yes, it's effective, but is that the only. That's the only mandate we have, or are we trying to temper that with is it effective and is it also honoring the values that we speak of? I think that values driven work is, like, what I'm really excited about the future because our sector is probably the best at professing values, but not necessarily enacting them. And that's the truth of it, too. When you come back to that question of organizational culture, if I ask any nonprofit leader, tell me about your organizational culture, I will likely get mission vision values, how they're actually operationalized, how many times board members, leaders actually reflect on those, actually reflect on how they behave, how they treat their junior staff, how do you make space for them to question or challenge you? Those are indicators of culture that I'm more curious about. I'd rather sit in, like, a staff meeting and see, like, if the leader says something, is anyone willing to challenge them? Are they willing to receive that feedback? Those are indicators that I would like to see. But the thing is, with nonprofit, we're just used to, like, here's our paper. Here it is on our website. That's all you need to know. But I like to probe deeper. Like, how do you operationalize them? Do you actually reflect on that? Like, what about your strap plaid? Is it something that you just did because it's kind of mandated, you needed to show something, or did you actually think about what is required for you to serve your community?
- [32:02]
Mallory
Yeah, you touched on, like, one of my number one questions at the moment, which is, how do we define in this sector? It is like, that something, quote, unquote, worked, right? We're like, oh, that fundraising campaign worked. And it's like, what does that mean? What does that mean? To what end?
- [32:23]
Esther Se Hyun Lee
Mallory, you're going to laugh. I actually think sometimes I'm like, I think I'm not a good fundraiser. Not because I don't. Like, I had a campaign go wildly successful. I think it was like, 180% increase for an arts organization, which is wild in this context of arts fundraising. But I was more excited about the board stepping up to steward the, like, the donors. Like, I was genuinely like, we've got something here. We've shifted something. Like, this is a board that's like, I do not care about fundraising. It is icky. Get away from me. They actually stepped up and said, we'll divvy up the work of calling people to thank them. And it was like, with an earnestness that I had not seen. And for me, the metric of, like, 188% increase, sure, that's really, like. It's great. We're mobilized. I know that's what I'm hired to do, but this is more, like, for me, the exciting part of, like, now you understand what fundraising can be like. You don't think of fundraising as, like, people, like, pandering for money. Like, you understand it as, like, really trying to connect people to the mission, to the. And understand the impact and, like, want to invest and be in solidarity with it. That's way more exciting for me.
- [33:30]
Mallory
And to me, that is a sign that it worked. Right? Like, it's just that we haven't. We haven't historically measured things with indicators like that. I mean, one of the things I feel like I've been screaming about for the last few years is, like, the money is the lagging indicator, right? The leading indicators are what we do, what our board does, how we feel, what we think about this, how do we talk about fundraising, all of those things. What words do we associate when we hear that language? Like, all of those things, that's what drives then ultimately, the lagging indicator around how much we raise, either in the moment, in a campaign like that, but also over multiple years, like, we've been measuring, worked based primarily on urgent revenue targets, right? And so we're saying, like, oh, yeah, this worked for this thing, this one little thing in the snapshot in time. But, like, why are numbers year over year and retention rates so abysmal? So I love that we're, like, ending here because. And I love that you share that example, because that's the type of metric that I would love for people to start measuring, too, so that we can build in some of those psychological reward systems into the types of things that we really do value and care about. So setting a goal around how many board members participate at the beginning and then measuring that at the end and celebrating that at the end, that's sort of how we, like, bring in some of those that rewiring around, like, our values. Like, I'm always like, don't tell me what you value. Like, show me what you track.
- [35:00]
Esther Se Hyun Lee
Yeah. And fundraisers are so powerful in that, like Anika said, they have one foot in the community, one foot in the organization, and then translating for both. Fundraisers are incredibly powerful. So to limit our ability and only define us by one metric, which, you know, that is an important metric, do not get me wrong. I understand we need money to, like, pay our staff, and I'M not dismissing that. However, I think we are actually the harbinger, like harbingers of culture. We're the ones that are communicating for both. We're the ones that are telling you what the community needs to we're telling you what the organization is doing. When you limit us and like narrow our scope to just how much revenue did you bring without seeing the fuller contact, I think you're doing the organization and injustice as well. I think there's so many other metrics that we need to think about. But again, do we have the critical distance to really sit and reflect on this? That's something that I would wish for our sector, for our fundraisers and anybody that's experiencing that scarcity, I would hope that they understand that the work they do can't just be limited to the money you bring. I think there's defined by so much more than that, and I think we actually contribute so much more than that.
- [36:09]
Mallory
That is the perfect way to wrap up this conversation. Tell everyone where they should go to connect with you, work with you, learn more.
- [36:17]
Esther Se Hyun Lee
Of course. So My website is elevatephilanthropyconsulting.com Please connect with me on LinkedIn, especially if you like cat photos and sharing memes. And I also love to contribute to the CCF Hub. And if you're someone that wants to share your thoughts, your views, please contribute. We're always looking for people to platform.
- [36:40]
Mallory
Thank you so much for joining me for this conversation.
- [36:44]
Esther Se Hyun Lee
Foreign.
- [36:48]
Mallory
I hope today's episode inspired or challenged you to think differently. For additional takeaways, tips, show notes, and more about our amazing guest and sponsors, head on over to Mallorykson.com podcast and if you didn't know, hosting this podcast isn't the only thing I do every day. I coach, guide and help fundraisers and leaders just like you and inside of my program, the Power Partners Formula Collective. Inside the program, I share my methods, tools and experiences that have helped me fundraise millions of dollars and feel good about myself in the process. To learn more about how I can help you, visit MalloryErickson.com PowerPartners Last but not least, if you enjoyed this episode, I'd love to encourage you to share it with a friend you know would benefit or leave a review. I'm so grateful for all of you and the good, hard work you're doing to make our world a better place. I can't wait to see you in the next episode. Fundraising doesn't have to Feel like a Solo Battle My book what the Fundraising Embracing and Enabling the people behind the purpose offers practical strategies and frameworks to help you navigate the challenge challenges of fundraising with ease and impact. And with our free discussion guide, you can deepen learning and collaboration with your team or book club ready to transform the way you Fundraise? Head to Mallorykson.com backslash book to order your copy today anywhere books are sold, and you can grab the guide there too.