← What the Fundraising
What the Fundraising
231: The Power of Trauma-Informed Storytelling: A Guide to Ethical Storytelling with Maria Bryan
00:27:28
Loading summary
Transcript35 lines
- [00:00]
Mallory Erickson
Foreign.
- [00:04]
Maria Bryan
Nonprofit leaders mark your calendars Join me June 3rd and 4th at the free 2025 donorperfect community conference. It is all about connection this year and you are going to learn about connection in terms of donor engagement and learn proven strategies to drive real impact. Register now@donorperfect.com donorperfect conference that's donorperfect.com conference.
- [00:39]
Unknown
Trauma is not an event, which many of us so let's debunk a few things, right? It's not an event itself. Also, traditionally we've thought as trauma as something that people only who've returned from war experience, then maybe a little bit later, those who've experienced extreme violent situations. Trauma is the natural internal body response, the nervous system response we have when our body feels threatened, when we feel that we are in danger. So this is something where three people can experience the same thing and all three of us will have different responses.
- [01:13]
Maria Bryan
Hey, my name is Mallory and I'm obsessed with helping leaders in the nonprofit space raise money and run their organizations differently. What the Fundraising is a space for real and raw conversations to both challenge and inspire you. Not too long ago, I was in your shoes, uncomfortable with fundraising and unsure of my place in this sector. It wasn't until I started to listen to other experts outside of the fundraising space that I was able to shift my mindset and ultimately shift the way I show up as a leader. This podcast is my way of blending professional and personal development so we as a collective inside the nonprofit sector can feel good about the work we are doing. Join me every week as I interview some of the brightest minds in the personal and professional development space to help you fundamentally change the way you lead and fundraise. I hope you enjoy this episode, so let's dive in.
- [02:07]
Mallory Erickson
Welcome everyone. I am so excited to be here.
- [02:10]
Maria Bryan
Today with my friend Maria Bryan.
- [02:12]
Mallory Erickson
Maria, welcome to what? The fundraising.
- [02:14]
Unknown
Oh thank you so much Mallory. It is a joy and an honor to be here.
- [02:18]
Mallory Erickson
I'm so excited for this conversation around trauma informed storytelling. I've loved the story, sort of voice and thought leadership that you've been really pushing here for our sector. And why don't we start with you just telling everybody a little bit about you, your story, what's brought you to this work and then we'll go from there.
- [02:39]
Unknown
Absolutely. So trauma informed storytelling. While it has taken me a few years to boil this down, it is the practice of gathering and telling stories in a way that promotes safety and wellness and resists harm. So to unpack that just a little bit, we are in the Nonprofit space. Clearly we are solving the world's biggest problems. There are just huge, huge challenges that we're solving. And with that comes all kinds of trauma. Likely people are in the most traumatic seasons of their life when they come to your door, when they come for your services. From a marketing, fundraising perspective, we know that stories are foundational to move our mission. So this is the conundrum, right? How do we tell powerful stories that aren't exploiting the trauma of the folks that we work with and that we serve? And I think we can. I believe that we can. So that's what I do. I've been a deep study of trauma and resilience and healing the past few years, and I've been connecting the dots on how we can tell effective stories while also being protective, what I call our story owners, also being protective of our audience members who are vulnerable to being triggered by our stories. And all of you listening, who are vulnerable to vicarious trauma by being exposed to traumatic stories. Right, day in and day out. So my background is in journalism and storytelling. I'm a lifelong storyteller. And since 2022 is really when I embarked on this path of supporting folks to have a trauma informed lens when they tell nonprofit stories.
- [04:19]
Mallory Erickson
Okay, so before we get into the, like, specifics around kind of the intersection of trauma and storytelling, I feel like trauma is a word that we're hearing more and more. And in some ways I almost worry that people are becoming a little bit desensitized to it because it's being used as this, like, umbrella term. So can you frame it for us to help people understand? Like, what do you mean by trauma as you're talking about it here, Important.
- [04:49]
Unknown
That we define trauma. Trauma is not an event which many of us. So let's debunk a few things, right? It's not an event itself. Also, traditionally we've thought as trauma as something that people only who've returned from war experience, then maybe a little bit later, those who've experienced extreme violent situations. Trauma is the natural internal body response, the nervous system response we have when our body feels threatened, when we feel that we are in danger. So this is something where three people can experience the same thing and all three of us will have different responses. We think about, we know sometimes those who know a little bit about trauma, the flight, freeze, fawn responses that we have. And they'll all be different depending again on our previous experience, even on our genetics and what to do in a certain situation. So that's what trauma is. It's our body protecting us from being in danger. Now, what happens, though, is that when you have complex trauma or when you're telling the story of trauma, your body doesn't know the difference between actually being in danger and being safe. So all those internal things, all the chemicals and the hormones and the adrenaline, your heart pounding and your breath either, you know, going faster or slower will happen because your body is responding to this perceived okay.
- [06:10]
Mallory Erickson
And so it sounds like then trauma informs. Storytelling is both. And you were sort of saying this in your introduction as well, that it. It's both around the sort of ethical storytelling, respect for the storyteller, the way in which sharing that story could stir up their trauma and perhaps re. Traumatize them in certain ways, and then also the sort of ethics of the story, the person who's witnessing the story, and the trauma associated with the person who's witnessing the story.
- [06:47]
Unknown
Absolutely. And this is so, so nuanced because one thing that I do teach and stand by is that we can't promise safety. We cannot promise not to do harm. And that's actually not necessarily what we need to do. When someone is truly experiencing trauma, they have lost control and agency and they have lost safety. So what we're simply doing, Mallory, is we're giving that back. We're giving back control and agency. We're giving back opportunities of safety, and we're letting people decide, do you want to tell this painful story? And just give them so many touch points to opt out or to opt in. Same with our audience. We're just giving so many touch points for people to say, you know what? I just don't have capacity for this right now in this moment. And same for us. And I think it's most complicated when we talk about, actually differentiate story owners and storytellers. Story owners, it's their story. And storytellers are crafting a broader story to disseminate to audiences. And so how can we build boundaries and resilience so that we can continue to tell these stories for good? I don't even know if I answered your question. I don't know if we remember your question. You brought up that nuance for me. You did.
- [07:57]
Mallory Erickson
And I mean, I think, like, the piece around conscious choice. Right. Is so important. And I wonder about. So there's the sort of ways that we think about formally storytelling. Right. So we're going to put together a campaign and we work in an issue area where many of the folks that we work with, if we're going to share stories about them, they include traumatic events potentially for them and for the reader. And so we need to sort of be really intentional and process oriented around how we make sure we're doing trauma informed storytelling. And I want to talk about that and I also want to understand as we talk about that is a distinction ever between something like that and what we're allowed to say in more sort of casual formats. So I'll give like an example that sort of. And whether that's about us, you know, it's our story or. But it's still. We still want to be respectful of the people who are hearing it. Right. Like I went through something in college that is very traumatic and very triggering for other people to hear about. And I've always not known, like, oh, like if I mention it on a podcast interview, do I need to put a trigger warning at the beginning of that podcast interview that like this came up in one sentence because it was related to this other thing that we talked about. So I'd love to hear sort of how you think about and support the process of this and then, yeah, how does it shake out in real life?
- [09:34]
Unknown
So trauma informed. There are so many protocols and process and we could talk about it all day long. I'm a process girl. It's also something you wear like glasses or your favorite sweater. It's just something that starts to become a little bit more intuitive and it has taken a lot of practice. So I don't know what that experience is. Let's just say it was. And I'm just about to talk about car, a car accident. And if that feels like that might be upsetting to you or you don't capacity, now's the time to pause the podcast. Okay, so Mallory, I just did it. Like, it's very, very simple. Right before you tell something, you can say like, I'm just about to talk about infant loss. I'm just about to talk about rape on campus. You don't have to go into details, just enough and say, hey, this is your moment to step out of the room, press pause. You can even say, hey, this is going to be recorded so you can come back another time. It doesn't have to be bold and loud. And I think that's why trigger warnings are starting to get a bad name. Because people feel like they're becoming triggering in of themselves. But there is a practice of being a trauma informed person to know you're about to say something that might make someone feel uncomfortable, but also it might absolutely change the life of someone in the room for better and might be part of someone's Healing story. Right. So we're not going to not say it. Our stories are worth telling, even if they are painful. Just simply so when I'm recording a podcast and I know that we're going to talk about something that's upsetting because sometimes we don't, sometimes we are just talking about pretty simple things, I will just say, hey, we're going to be talking about immigration rights and this is going to be heavy. So this might be hard for, for you to listen. So today might not be the best day for you to listen to this podcast. Very, very simple things that you can do. One sentence. And again, it's not just about doing what's right, because then that's where we kind of get paralyzed and burdened as ethical storytellers. But to know that you're just simply giving permission. Everything that I teach and do, being trauma informed, is giving safety and agency to as many people that are involved. So you're giving yourself permission to kind of pause and set boundaries. You're giving audiences permission to just not consume this podcast or information or LinkedIn post. And of course your story owner, who is probably the most vulnerable, so many touch points to continue with their story or to pause, to retract their story, to edit their story, whatever it may be. So would you like me to go into some of the more practical, talk.
- [12:01]
Mallory Erickson
Us through some of that processing what you're saying.
- [12:04]
Unknown
Yeah, and it's really important. I'm so glad that you brought up that one particular thing because again, I can give you a checklist, but and this is, I have a monthly storytelling circle that I. It's free. Encourage everybody to go. And we just talk about the most nuanced, challenging, sticky parts of trauma informed storytelling. Because these checklists will be great for one particular story and organization and not work at all for another. Depending if you're international, if you're local, if everyone in your neighborhood knows everybody. Right. There's so many different reasons why one thing works for one organization and not another. And again, just story by story. There are some things that you should integrate into your storytelling protocol, and one is the media consent process. Not just a media consent form, but really from beginning to end in the storytelling journey, just making sure that the person who is sharing their story is giving their consent to quite a bit. Do they want to have their name anonymous or not? Maybe they want to share audio, but not their face or their picture. Maybe they want to share their part of the story, but leave their children out. I mean, as much as you can kind of Give them control over their story before you even begin. And then through the storytelling interview, let's say just give pause between interview questions. Build that in. You don't have to answer this. I know we're here and we're comfy, but you don't have to answer this or answer it fully. And then, and I know this is where people their heads start spinning, but can you have story owners review the story? Which serious. For those of us who really are have storytelling as their role. And they know it can take a month to get everyone to approve a story. They know how difficult it is to add people to the review process. But this is part of a trauma informed process, is giving story owners space to review. Another completely separate protocol is involving people that are not the story owner who might have insights on what would be harmful or, you know, maybe more safe. So again, we don't want to put so much on the story owner to say, hey, anything in the story that is going to offend your whole community, Right? That's not quite fair. So are there other people in your organization, in your community that you can build a review committee? So once the story is done, let's just say this is like the video for the gala that a lot of people are going to see or it's going to live on your homepage. Who else can be part of this review process? And I actually have a list of questions that you can give to each one of these people to kind of see what blind spots you might have where they can kind of fill in the gaps. So that review team is really important. And there's one more process that I want to talk about that I think is probably one of the most crucial and most missed and that is having a harm repair plan first and foremost. This gives us grace and permission to be human because we are human. And I can't tell you how dysregulated folks are when they come through my programs because they think about all the things they did wrong, right? And so let's just sit and acknowledge that we're going to mess up, right? We're going to mess up. We're going to do harm. Something is going to either because of blind spots or things that we didn't see, we just messed up. Even if we knew better, we messed up. Knowing there is a harm repair in rep in place allows us to be human and not be paralyzed by our checklist. Right? Also, a harm repair plan gives us guidance when harm has done on like, okay, what do we need to do next? What is a real apology and not just being defensive. What real changes are we going to make in our organization to mitigate this from happening again? And how are we ensuring if as a result of this harm, we need to remove a story that we are, to the best of our ability, truly removing the story in as many places as possible. So we're being proactive instead of reactive. But again, I have to really underscore how this just gives us permission to be imperfect and to be human.
- [16:15]
Mallory Erickson
Okay.
- [16:15]
Maria Bryan
Wow.
- [16:16]
Mallory Erickson
I mean, there's so much there that I'm sort of deciding which direction I want to go in.
- [16:26]
Maria Bryan
If you are a fundraising professional or nonprofit leader, you won't want to miss the 2025 donorperfect community conference. I'm excited to be your host for this free event on June 3rd and 4th. It's all about building deeper connections with your donors, your team and your mission. You'll learn how to create lasting donor relationships, boost your digital presence, and transform one time donors into lifelong champions of your cause. You'll walk away with practical strategies, fresh insights and a renewed passion for your work. Join me and Register today at donorperfect.com donorperfect-conference that's donorperfect.com donorperfect conference I cannot wait to see you there.
- [17:13]
Mallory Erickson
I'm curious the folks who are helping to collect these stories, who are working with beneficiaries, like, there's so many like interconnected components of this, right? There's like the nuance in all of the different scenarios from the lens of the person who's experiencing it. But then it's also, it's not like these independent, you know, fully independent experiences, they are interconnected. And there's this Venn diagram of kind of what happens in these moments. And I've certainly heard stories of folks who have been like, re traumatized through the collection of their story that weren't giving. Like, I loved what you were saying earlier about all the different opportunities for consent and all the different moments for pause. I also know that a lot of the people who are collecting these stories are running these programs, are under so much pressure and dealing with a heightened stress response at all times. And just to your point, nervous system dysregulation, right? They're coming to these. And then from that state, it can be so hard to give ourselves grace or to notice where a pause is or to not get defensive. Right. It's like all of those things are once again a protection mechanism to keep us safe. How do you and your work kind of support the story? I forget what you Story craft.
- [18:38]
Unknown
Story owner. Oh, storyteller. Okay.
- [18:42]
Mallory Erickson
The story owner from like, what is important for them to be keeping in mind in terms of their own kind of like ongoing self work or reflection that allows them to participate in the process the way that they cognitively want to. But perhaps the system hasn't set up for them to be able to really feel into.
- [19:08]
Unknown
You're speaking to something that has been so heavy on my heart, and that is there are going to be folks in the organization, and maybe that's you who's listening, who feels urgent about this, who really worries that you're perpetuating the same harm that you're in the nonprofit space to dismantle. And yet you're tasked with telling 50 stories a year or to raise so much money through very specific stories. And this is something that's really, I want to make abundantly clear. There are really, really good stories that will raise more money that are not trauma informed and ethical. I'm sorry to say it. I mean, there are some stories that are ethical and trauma informed are not going to maybe pull at the heartstrings if you have to choose between an anonymous story and actually looking at the face of the people you served. And these are the kinds of dilemmas that storytellers are tasked with every day. Having to make these decisions and lead up and have to explain to board members and their leadership that like, no, we, we really can't be telling these stories. And so I think we're in a season because trauma informed storytelling is so new that there is just a lot of modeling that we have to do. And I know this may sound frustrating, and I feel that I so deeply feel this frustration. But what I share with you, if you were in this situation is take heart. Social justice is slow. It takes time. It takes patience and resilience. And so what is maybe one win, you know, celebrate the wins. And maybe that win is just upgrading your media consent form to just give a little bit more safety and agency to folks, or you get a few more edits into the story that give more dignity and honor the folks you serve. You can't just do it all at once. You need too much buy in from too many people. But it makes a difference when you can, with kindness and empathy and grace, model, hey, I see the list of interview questions that you created. I'm a little concerned. How about we adjust this? Instead of saying, hey, I took Maria's program and she said, you know, there's like a way to do it that's gonna just really Frustrate people. And then there's a way to do it that you're just modeling. This is how we're doing this now. This is the future of storytelling. And it's slow. And it's a big part of my work is just trying to normalize, slowing down the storytelling process, telling less stories a year, and having folks okay with creative storytelling, which we can go into the whole rabbit hole of AI and how people are freaking out about creative storytelling. So I get it. I get it. So I don't have any particular answer, but I just so feely, deep, deeply feel that challenge of just wanting to wipe your slate clean of your storytelling process and start from the beginning, but you just can't because you're one of a thousand people in your organization. But take heart, celebrate your wins and just do, you know, have a timeline maybe within the next year? I want to have a process, a tight process in place within two years. I want us to just be telling five stories and sell it instead of 50. Yeah, it's a process. It takes time.
- [22:20]
Mallory Erickson
I'm so happy what you said about the trade offs, like, between doing ethical. Like, I think it's really important for us as a sector to be really honest about how we define things as working. Right. We're like, oh, this campaign works. And it's like, what does that mean? What does that mean works? What are the metrics that we're using to define that? And is that in alignment with the values that we say we hold, with the work that we say we're doing? And we need to be conscious of that? Like, I'm not telling even anybody. I understand that organizations are under different levels of pressure. They're going to have different leadership who make different decisions and feel different ways about different things. And so I'm in no way saying every time you identify this misalignment, you better fix it right away. What I am saying is that we need to be honest about it. Like, we need to be honest about it.
- [23:21]
Unknown
Right?
- [23:21]
Mallory Erickson
Yeah. So I really appreciate you saying that. I think that is important to say. I think, like, there are a lot of opportunities and. And I would say that's not always the case. Right. Like, I've seen organizations become more ethical, more trauma informed in their storytelling, and raise so much more money because actually it did require them to be. To go deeper, to be more honest, to be more transparent with their community too. And people appreciated opportunities to opt in, opt out. Like, it. It ultimately deepened relationships for everybody. But I think you're right. Like, no matter what we do need to like, you know, anyone can get a guilt gift, a favor gift, you can freak a donor out enough, scare them and so that they just want to get you off your, their doorstep or out of their email or whatever. Like, sure, we can totally fundraise that way. And like, then when our donor retention numbers are abysmal, we need to be honest about how we built relationships, how we got that money. So I, I just so appreciate that. I know we're almost out of time. You have some incredible offerings for organizations. Where should they go to learn more, follow you, like, get all this, do all the things.
- [24:37]
Unknown
Thank you, Mallory and I. I'm just so honored that we're having this conversation because it's really, really a crucial conversation to be having this year. So my programs are When Bearing Witness and they come in a few different ways. Some of them are team training, some of them are cohorts. The next cohort's coming out this summer and they're all about having these mindsets, but also practical, accessible tools to become a trauma informed storyteller. I also have a podcast, also When Bearing Witness where I interview so many folks that are doing things a little bit differently. And it's my pride and joy, this podcast and I also, as a gift to your listeners, I have a free trauma informed storytelling toolkit. Mariabryan.com trauma-informed-oh, okay. The link is going to be in the show notes.
- [25:30]
Mallory Erickson
Yeah, give them all the things. Don't worry, I can never remember URL to save my life.
- [25:36]
Unknown
It's not easy to get to. Anyway, it's a free toolkit that has a few things just to kind of kickstart. If you had this conversation, you're like, ooh, media consent form, we need that. Or oh, how can I like regulate my, my nervous system? There's just a few tools in here that, that will support you.
- [25:51]
Mallory Erickson
Thank you. Thank you for that. Than you for always being so generous with this sector and for everything you're doing to push this conversation forward and shed light on. I wish I had had all of this available to me when I was an ed leading an organization. So I'm just so grateful for the way you're showing up for all of us.
- [26:10]
Unknown
Thank you, Mallory.
- [26:17]
Maria Bryan
I hope today's episode inspired, inspired or challenged you to think differently. For additional takeaways, tips, show notes, and more about our amazing guest and sponsors, head on over to mallory.com podcast and if you didn't know, hosting this podcast isn't the only thing I do every day. I coach, guide and help fundraisers and leaders just like you. Inside of my program, the Power Partners Formula Collective Inside the program, I share my methods, tools, tools and experiences that have helped me fundraise millions of dollars and feel good about myself in the process. To learn more about how I can help you, visit MalloryErickson.com PowerPartners Last but not least, if you enjoyed this episode, I'd love to encourage you to share it with a friend you know would benefit or leave a review. I'm so grateful for all of you and the good hard work you're doing to make our world a better place. I can't wait to see you in the next episode. Nonprofit leaders, you know the challenge. Raising more funds, proving your impact and telling your story in a way that moves donors. Liminal gets it. With 50 plus years of nonprofit experience, they help organizations elevate their brand, clarify messaging and inspire action. Ready to stand out? Visit meetliminal.com today.