Mallory Erickson (5:15)

Wow. I was saying to you before we clicked record, like, one of the things that I think is so inspiring about you is the way in which you have just walked straight into difficult systems and where you could have tried to ignore them. Maybe not the system, but the institution that upheld the system. But sort of instead of doing that, you know, you have found ways to build not just community. I mean, maybe that had a selfish outcome, but you did that for a lot more than just you. And. And you've built that community, but you've also worked tirelessly to. To change things, and I'm sure not without cost to you emotionally and, you know, psychologically and all the things that come with that. But I'm curious what has made you that way, to sort of see something like that and say, I'm going to walk to the, the center of it and figure out how I can change it.

Birgit Smith Burton (6:14)

Thank you for saying that. And you know, until you said it a few minutes ago, I had never really thought of it like that. I just, that's just who I am. But, you know, I'm adopted. I was born in Germany to a German mother and a father who was in the military and did not stay with my birth mother. He left. And so I'm biracial. And she kept me until I was almost three years old. German was my first language. I use that as my excuse whenever I falter, like, I'm sorry. German was my first language. You know, three year old German. And my adoptive parents, my dad was in the Air Force and stationed in Germany. They had been married for 10 years. They were childless. And it was during a time when, you know, fertility, you know, all of the different ways to increase the chance of having a child, they weren't as available. And adoption was one of the big options. And so my parents decided to adopt and they went through an agency. My mother kept me until the day before my adoptive parents stopped me. And so there's some kind of, you know, resilience there, right? That, that became a part of my early life, but also some pain too, because they say that that trust was really kind of learned and gained, you know, during the first five years of life. And so that woman who was so important to me, my mother, disappeared one day with all the great love and intentions that she had. There's still that pain. And so my adoptive parents were the most amazing people in the whole wide world, but they lived through the civil rights movement. My dad was in the Air Force. He was an engineer. My mom got a degree in nutrition, which, you know, was a miserable part of my early life because every meal I ate was balanced completely color size on the plate. My mother was from that to, you know, that education, right. You know, don't have any more of those potatoes. Eat some more of that salad. So, but this is. And so they met and married. And, you know, my dad was the first in many ways in the Air Force in his career. And so that's. These are the parents that I had. But they also, Mallory, were parents who were like, don't be the best you can. That's be. Be the best version of yourself. That's how you're going to succeed. Don't stand out, don't overdo, protest and draw attention to yourself. You can really succeed by. You have to be even better than anybody else. And so there came this point where I became a little rebellious, you know, in that I'm not as rebellious as some of my friends who are 10 or 15 years younger than me now. I'm like, whoa, I would never do that. But so that became a part of it. And also I have this need to pave the way for others because some of the biggest mentors in my life paved the way for me. And so, for example, Charles Stevens, who really encouraged me to stay in AFP because my first experience in Buffalo, New York, and I wrote about it, it's an Advancing Philanthropy. This month, I walked into that meeting in Buffalo, New York, and nobody spoke to me in the AFP meeting. I never went back. Let me just cut. Move forward real quick and say I've been back since I went back last year. And they welcomed me with open arms as a matter of. But most of the board members weren't even born when I was there at that time. So they, they take no responsibility for that, but they do take responsibility for welcoming back. But then I came to Atlanta, it was the same thing. People weren't speaking to me and not making me feel, you know, warm and welcomed. And Charles Stevens, who was the first black chair of AFP Global Board, was my mentor. And he told me, there is a path that you're supposed to be on to pave the way for others, you need to stay the course. And so I did. And so I have found that when I've done that and paved the way for others, that's where I get my biggest reward. When somebody says I did because of you, or I accomplished because you helped me, or I witnessed you. It's not easy, though. It is not easy, you know, and I've had challenges. I, you know, don't always talk about them. But guess what? I'm going to write about them. I am going to write about. This is going to be a juicy book, let me tell you.

Mallory Erickson (11:15)

Hopefully you'll come back and do a little of your release tour here.

Birgit Smith Burton (11:19)

Absolutely.

Mallory Erickson (11:21)

I mean, I think that's such an important part of the conversation. Right? Because I think not only, you know, do I watch the work you're doing, and I'm like, does she ever sleep? Like, how does she do all of these things? I do not understand, understand. But also, let me tell you, let.

Birgit Smith Burton (11:38)

Me interrupt that for once. I can and tell you I have to learn how to change the setting on my emails so that when I send them at 2 in the morning, people don't know that I sent them at 2 in the morning because I send them and I get these reply messages the next morning. Like really? What were you doing up at two in the morning? I was like, busted. But anyway, go ahead.

Mallory Erickson (12:00)

Okay, so you don't sleep. So that question has been answered for me. But I think you also, like there have been times I'll just say where I have wanted to personally cancel an institution or just be like, okay, I can't do like, you know, and, but then I watch your leadership there and I think, okay, as a white woman, that's not fair. Like figure out what it looks like to be a better ally in that institution and. But I can not imagine the toll that it takes to hold that even when you do know it's having all of those outcomes.

Birgit Smith Burton (12:36)

So what keeps me moving forward and making the effort? Because believe me, I can get to the point where I'm like, okay, I'm not giving any more of my energy towards that. Is that coming together? And I have no problem using AFP as an example. Someone said to me once, I don't want to serve on the nominating committee for AFP because I don't want to encourage people, invite people, select people to serve the Global Board. I don't want to be a part of that. And my pushback to her was how do we bring about change if we have the same people making those decisions? It's an echo chamber, right? One of the steps to bring about change is to focus on that level of the organization, the leadership, and let's bring in different leadership, more diverse leadership, different thoughts, different perspectives. If you want change, this is one of the places where change can be made. So I encourage people to, to self nominate for the board. My first year, I believe it was my first year as the Global Board chair. So that would be 20, 23 was the most diverse board in AFP's 62 year history. Right. And so there were spirited board meetings and there were some folks who, you know, had been around a little bit saying, oh this, I'm kind of challenged with this. And I'm like, that's because there are unique voices in the conversation that are going to ask questions that are going to lift up things that others have said, you know, let's just leave this as is. So I feel that we have to be a part of, you know, bringing change. And if those people who are constantly there to keep, you know, us from moving forward continue in those places, in those roles, we aren't going to move forward. Right. So I mean we've seen what leadership, good and bad, can do. So I won't go down that road.

Mallory Erickson (14:38)

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Mallory Erickson (15:25)

Well, what's your self talk like around patience as you're saying that I'm like hearing the long game, right? And but I also can imagine that in the day to day when you're dealing with the urgency of the inequity in the moment, it's got to be so hard to stay focused on that long game. How do you do that?

Birgit Smith Burton (15:46)

It is. And let me tell you, I get upset, you know, and I get, get angry and I'm one of those people that I have to be still and be quiet for a moment because I will type out an email and if I hit send, I'll look at it, you know, half hour from now and go oh no I didn't, you know what I mean? Like I can go there. So one of the things that I do is I have my group of people that they're passionate like me, but I have some people that, let me tell you, they'll say beer get, think about that. Because if you do, if you call, if you post this is what you're gonna, gonna deal with. So think about that. Do you know what I mean? And might there be a better approach? So it's, you know, I'll have the passion and I'll, you know, be motivated and sometimes very angry. But I will listen to those people that I trust and they're not people. Listen. They're not people, Mallory, who are going to praise me and co sign every, you know, thing I think of, that's how some of these celebrities end up in big trouble. Because the only people they have around them, you know, are the people that are going to tell them how wonderful they are and every decision they make is right. And so I make sure I have people around me who say you need to think that through or here's some, you know, another road you can take or Here and give me data. Give me real data, because that's what people pay attention to. You know what I mean? If you can say, listen, this percentage of folks have experienced such and such one that I like, and I don't want anybody to. To quote me on this. Look for the. The actual research was conducted by AFP on, you know, how. I can't remember exactly what it was called, and I apologize, but they surveyed people on their experience in the development operation, and there were. I can't remember the percentage of people of color who resp. But what was interesting was the percentage of black responders in fundraising who said that they left an organization because of racist behavior, racist treatment, but didn't report it in their exit interview. Did not report it. So I believe it was over 50% that said they left for racist behavior, but they didn't report it. And what I find interesting about that is I was having a conversation with a group of vice presidents for development Advancement in Higher Education, and they were saying, you know, we try to reach out to, you know, bring more diversity into our, you know, institution and through the candidates. And we've had candidates, you know, leave in the midst of the. The process. They might have been, you know, one of two finalists, and they've bailed in the middle of it. We don't understand. We're trying. And, you know, I said, you need to recognize that we may be a small community in terms of the percentage, you know, of professionals. I think 10% are people of color in fundraising, and 4 to 5% are actually black. Right. And so I'm saying we're a small group and we talk. So someone will call me and listen. They do. I get calls every week. I'm interested in this position at such and such. Do you know anybody who worked there? Yeah, I know, you know, so and so and so and so. And they will call them and they'll say, you don't want to work there. Listen, this is what I experienced. I left. But I didn't say I left because of this. And these vice presidents were in absolute shock. So they're saying, so we don't know. And, yes, this is what, you know, is being said about our institution. And I'm saying, yes, you really need to encourage people to tell you what is happening within your organization. I had a great experience for the most part, you know, in my 25 years. But I'll tell you, one of the most heartbreaking things for me was someone I was very close to who was white, that I felt loved and valued and Appreciated me as a professional and, yes, as a black woman. When I left, I didn't hear from him for two and a half years. And, like, nothing. Not a text message. And then I would hear from other colleagues, you know, who had retired or left and gone on, that they had lunch with him or dinner with him. And then I got a text message one day last year, and I picked up my phone, I said, finally reached out to me, and I looked, and the text message said, thinking about you today. And do you know what day it was? June 19th. It was Juneteenth, the day that we recognize, you know, sort of officially the end of slavery. And this was his reaching out to me in two and a half years to say he was thinking about me on the day that we recognize, you know, the end of slavery. I thought, and there you have it. There it is. Yeah.

Mallory Erickson (20:59)

I'm so sorry that you have that experience. And I can't imagine, like, if you're already not feeling safe in a work environment, to then take on the role of trying to educate them around why it's problematic. But that is.

Birgit Smith Burton (21:17)

That one caught you off guard, didn't it?

Mallory Erickson (21:19)

Well, I think it's really, you know, it's interesting. Part of me was thinking, I never made phone calls like that. Like, have you worked at this organ before? And I think about the priv. The privilege that I had in not feeling like I had to make those sure. Calls.

Birgit Smith Burton (21:32)

Yeah.

Mallory Erickson (21:32)

And the monster executive directors. I ended up finding, like, how different the veil of the interview process is. And I hope that this. I mean, I think what's really important about this story is also that, like, let's be who we say we are and, like, spend less time. You know, Like, I was thinking, okay, what if I was in a situation like that? What if I had taken on leadership at an organization that I knew had mistreated fundraisers of color historically, and I was now hiring for positions? How would I be transparent about that in those interviews? How get uncomfortable and say, like, hey, I want to talk about this thing so that there's no mystery that we don't know this has happened here, that we don't know people have had these experiences. And, you know, I'm going back to something you said a few minutes ago that I think is so important in this sector. I'm curious, like, what you think about it. I also am the type of person where I want to be surrounded by people who disagree with me. Like, I don't have any interest in having a table full of people who give Me, thumbs up all the time. Like, you know, I want people who are going to challenge me, who are going to tell me where I'm wrong. I'm missing something where my blind spots are, like. And so. But I've been thinking, I've been struggling honestly to find that sometimes in our. And I feel like, you know, hearing what you were saying about the AFP.

Mallory Erickson (22:57)

Board and like, how do we create.

Mallory Erickson (22:59)

Spaces with more sort of expected discomfort, but we go into them knowing, yeah, this is going to be uncomfortable because that makes sense, and yet we still need to have these conversations and maybe you're not going to say everything perfectly and maybe there is. Like, but what does it look like for us in, like, how do you think about creating sort of intentionally uncomfortable environments where we can have more of that dialogue?

Birgit Smith Burton (23:30)

Right? The thing is fundraisers, there are a lot of a. Personalities, type A personalities, right? And so, you know, you get us together, and sometimes there are those that suck the oxygen out of the room, you know what I mean? You barely get a word in edgewise. And we also don't like to be wrong. You know what I mean? And so. So you, you put all of us in a room together. And I definitely am one of those people that I have folks that will push back, you know, I mean, say, well, is that really what you want to do? And, you know, that leader part of me and not wanting to be wrong was like, whoa, you know, hell yes, that's. That's what we're going to do. Because I said, that's, you know, what we're going to do. And. But then I sit back and I think for a moment I'm like, but that makes sense what that person said. And so I try, and I've learned, especially being the Global Board chair with a board that's going to express themselves, to really listen and give people the opportunity to express themselves, and then let's find consensus or let's agree to disagree and find that place where, you know, we can make the decision that helps us be able to move forward, you know what I mean? And then not have an attitude about it. You know, you don't want to get out of. Of a meeting and nobody's speaking to one another because, you know, we. We disagreed, but, you know, we. When I was responsible for, you know, kind of helping to address what was going on in the Toronto chapter of afp, there was a lot of pain and discomfort, and I had to help manage that and then communicate that to the Global board that wasn't in the midst of that situation. And many had never experienced anything like that and really didn't feel it was our place to be vocal about anything around that. But I felt that the largest chapter in afp, right? And people were watching this particular instance, they were signing petitions and they were posting on social media. And so I met with the board and said, I think, you know, we really need to come forward with a statement. We need to show solidarity and support around what we are seeing that happen. That according to the information and historical, you know, information and research that was done, this is a part of what's been going on for a while, so we need to address it. And let me conclude that by saying, you know, I was put in the position of having to appoint a president for the chapter because the entire board resigned and there was no board. And according to the bylaws, that would be cause for the chapter to disband and there be no chapter. And so I had to appoint the president and then together work with that president to appoint sort of a core board, right? And when I made the decision, chose the person, ran it by probably 10 people to get their feedback and buy in, and made the decision to ask Madea Akaruzi if he would be the president. And he agreed. And that was, let me tell you, the things that went into that were amazing. But the day that I did it and I posted that on LinkedIn, I turned off everything. I turned off my computer, I turned off my iPad. I mean, I sat on the couch. I was terrified because I didn't know how people were going to respond. And Mallory, I forgot to turn off my phone. And all of a sudden the dings were coming in. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. You know, from people commenting and posting. And I finally couldn't take it anymore. And I looked and people were giving a thumbs up and celebrating and, you know, said it was a great, a good decision, but you never know if that's going to be the case. Do you know what I mean? If a decision is going to be well received or if it will not be a popular decision, you know, and you, you have to live with that as a leader. So I've grown by leaps and bounds just over the past few years and, you know, am I ready to take on everything? No. But I am not standing down. I mean, I'm moving on. And let's make this profession even better. Let's create spaces where people feel they're included and they belong. And, you know, because at the end of the day, we support These nonprofits that depend on us to keep them with, keep the doors open and the lights on and people serve. And that is the most important thing.

Mallory Erickson (28:19)

I want to just end on that note. I'm so grateful for your time today, for sharing more of your story with us too and what makes you who you are. I'm so appreciative of the work that you do, inspired by you and yeah, grateful for the way that you're changing this sector. So I'll make sure that there's links so folks can go follow you on LinkedIn, connect with you, see all the incredible work that you're doing. Is there anything else you want to leave people with today?

Birgit Smith Burton (28:48)

Yeah, you know I'm not raising memberships for AFP on this, but I do want to note that this just came out. This is advancing Philanthropy. There's a four page article in here so if you're a member, you get this. If not, you can become a member and get it. Or reach out to me on LinkedIn and I'll get you a copy.

Mallory Erickson (29:09)

Thank you so much.

Birgit Smith Burton (29:10)

Thank you. Foreign.

Mallory Erickson (29:16)

I hope today's episode inspired or challenged you to think differently. For additional takeaways, tips, show notes, and more about our amazing guest and sponsors, head on over to Malloryerickson.com podcast and if you didn't know, hosting this podcast isn't the only thing I do every day. I coach, guide and help fundraisers and leaders just like you inside of my podcast program, the Power Partners Formula Collective. Inside the program, I share my methods, tools and experiences that have helped me fundraise millions of dollars and feel good about myself in the process. To learn more about how I can help you, visit Malloryerickson.com Power Partners last but not least, if you enjoyed this episode, I'd love to encourage you to share it with a friend you know would benefit or leave a review. I'm so grateful for for all of you and the good hard work you're doing to make our world a better place. I can't wait to see you in the next episode. Nonprofit leaders, you know the challenge. Raising more funds, proving your impact, and telling your story in a way that moves donors. Liminal gets it. With 50 plus years of nonprofit experience, they help organizations elevate their brand, clarify messaging and inspire action. Ready to stand out? Visit meetliminal.com today.